Can someone redpill me on the mmos on the market right now?

i wish there was a good anime mmo.

Felmyst in 7.40 hours,wait for that you fucko.

>>384673858
faggot detected

>>384673992
>Felmyst
Another wow private server
what happened to polegroun- I mean hellground or playtbc or gummys server?
sorry man I'm burnt out on wow private servers

>>384674106
This IS gummy's server tho

>>384673992
Only TWO good WoW private server:

Nostalrius (dead thx to Blizzard) and Elysium (5k-7k~ online)

>>384673992
WoW was never good

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>>384674204

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Yes they're all still shit.

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>>384674281
Better than Ragnarok Online, Lineage or FFXI

The only good MMOs on the market are some of the older ones. And going back to those is weird as fuck because most people know them too well and are powergaming the shit out of them so there's no joy to play them at all. For example WoW private servers.

>>384673858
Try Kritika

Playing on a Russian ArcheAge private server called ArcheRage. Its been running since Feb using actual code and uses patch 2.9. The server's hosted in France and I hardly get any lag in the States. Shit's fucking wonderful.

>Build a commune with your friends
>Climb the mercantile ladder, from delivering packs on a donkey to a farm cart to inter-continent merchantship runs
>Own your own personal ship and engage in naval warfare
>Kill and plunder opposing faction's goods or betray your own country and become a pirate, living in exile on your own pirate island
>Deep-sea dive for treasure
>Tend to your own farms and land
>Pick three of twelve classes to mix-and-match your own class

Shit is fucking lit. I haven't had as much fun since City of Heroes.

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Play final fantasy they just got a new xpac called stormblood

>>384673858
TERA

>>384676568
That's dead anon

If you havent already invested hours into one mmo then dont bother starting now.
Its better to cut your losses while you are free soul than to sink worthless time into one that you can never escape.
But the answer is WoW if you want to play a worthwhile mmo.

>>384675442
Sounds neat

>>384674401
Top kek wow better than ragnarok, nice one anon I laughed with your shitty meme.

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>>384673858
Petria Chronicles soon!

>>384678636
The ideas they are putting in the game are all great, but it's Korea so I'm pretty sure they are going to ruin it somehow.

>>384673764
>>>/pol/

>>384674259
population != good

but they're the better ones, sure

>>384673764
They are all shit, don't bother.
I wish they aren't that shitty.

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>>384678636
Damn this looks nic-
>koreashit
eh...

Is there any Korean game which don't turn into an awful P2W piece of shit late game?

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>>384678848
>Korea
I used to be optimistic, but after following BDO's development through from announcement to release I've learned that nothing good ever happens in Korea.

There's either World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV. There's others but they're all korean grindan shit.

>>384679794
There has to be something. People have always been saying that they're all shit.

>>384675442
Link?

>>384677141

It is. My favorite part is playing guild politics, exchanging favors between guilds and using connections to give our guild unique reputation and favors between guilds.

>>384680461

ArcheRage.to

the only promising MMOs from the past couple of years, from what i've seen, are the kickstarter ones.

Just play on a private server of an old one or something.

Can anyone give me the rundown on Albion Online?

>>384681391

Shitty cashgrab avoid at all costs

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just started this, fucking amazing, the devs are some of the best in the industry imo

>>384675442

or just play on the NA servers where they speak english

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>>384680570
>Downloading anything from Russia

>>384682057
Go on.

>>384682057
>>384682603
:thinking:

There's FFXIV and everything else. Everything else is shit. Wow is shit as well, don't even bother.

>>384682603
>Also on Android
Into trash it goes

Current ESO is cheap as fuck and has tons of good content. Don't listen to contrarians on /v/ it has become a solid game after lots of QoL improvements. I can't believe FFXIV of all things is shilled constantly here but ESO gets no love.

yo anyone wanna hop on some og MMOs? I'm down to play with randoms

>aeria """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""games""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>384682867

FFXIV is complete trash as well faggot

Nasomi ffxi private server is best MMO

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This is all MMOs now

>>384683078
he's just ass blasted that people go into the hourly XIVfag circle jerk threads and shit on his single player 'mmo'

>>384682603
This game is fucking trash, you shill. I have buyer's remorse.

FFXIV is the new wow

>>384683117

true that.

>tfw exploring vanilla WoW without any shitty meta-gamers

>>384683247
new wow from when wow went to shit maybe

>>384678636

Well this looks comf-
>Nexon NexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexonNexon

>>384682739

If you like cashgrab Runescape that focuses on shitty large scale PVP, and being a solo player is impossible because everyone just runs around in zerg squads, this is the mmo for you

>>384682603
>>384681391
>pay to play
>premium system to actually make a dent while you play
>being premium is a monthly fee
>can buy premium currency with real money
It's trash

>>384673764
Play a FFXI private server or don't play an MMO.

>>384675442
Is the client in Russian, or is it also in English? I tied archeage on Trion, but damn the game was so p2w and botters stole all the land. If this has open land that would be actually fun.

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>>384674401
WoW is literally worse than all of those.
WoW is what killed the genre. It led retards like you to think you were accepted online.

MMOs are either
>wow clones thats just the same old shit over and over
>Korean games that have 10/10 ideas but 4/10 execution, just like everything korea does.

>>384678926
Stop, newfaggot.

moria/mirkwood LoTRO and WAR at release was the perfect mmos for me
shame there's nothing in that style anymore

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>>384677141
>>384680461
>>384682715
>>384684056
neo/v/ will fall for literally anything.

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>>384684202
Or actual MMOs that came out before WoW and are decent.

You wouldn't know that though, you're 12.

>>384684390
We are talking about mmos on the market right now anon.

I just started FF 14, the reason I like it is because you don't have to spend hundreds of hours on it but you can if you want. Main story is awesome so far ( I just reached heavensward). I recommend it if you want to play an mmo but still have time to play other games.

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>>384684549
FFXI is on the market, and in it's bastardized mutilated form it's still better than anything else available.

Black Desert turned out surprisingly good IMO. That admittedly might have something to do with me coming to terms with its faults when I took a break but I'm liking it now.

There's tons of fun shit to do. Korean RNG a bitch but rewarding. Combats fun. Its a bit P2W but not off the charts like others.

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>>384684763
>yard meat
>no trouble
every time

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>>384684868
Everything in this post is either wrong or a lie. If you want to fap just look up porn. BDO is a shit game. It's bad.

>>384684390
Anon, why would a 12 year old complain about WoW clones? To them that's all there is and ever was.

>>384685078
a 12 year old has never played WoW when it was considered good though

>>384685004
State your reasoning my man.

I miss ragnarok online.

>>384684763
play a private server ffxi. ffxi today is garbage

>>384674401
>Better than Ragnarok Online
I'm done with this board, how can someone have this much of a shit taste.

>>384676524
>Online single player "mmo" with railroad storymode
No thx

>>384682989
This game is a lot of fun, that being said it triggers me that you cant buy furnished houses with gold. The whole crafting/buying furniture thing is just too timeconsuming and boring for me.

>>384685704
It has an actual story instead of a bunch of fetch quests.

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>>384685427
look at the 3 he chose, they're the only good MMOs.
It's a bait post.
C'mon man you should know better.

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>>384685931
the story in SB was retarded and you know it, nothing, NOTHING made me interested on it except a few bits on Doma

>we are going to attack the empire
>we attacked the empire, they are too strong, we need more people
>go to doma and liberate them
>we need the Xaela tribes to liberate doma
>we liberated doma, great
>we liberated Ala Mhigo, great
>also you killed Shinryu, great
>the empire created an artificial Echo

that's it, literally nothing more happened, HW was 10 times better than this garbage, and almost all the quest are fetch quests with cutscenes in between them

>>384686686
As retarded as it might have been, it was still much better than most MMOs

>>384673992
>hosted in the US
not falling for that meme, bucko

>>384683117
man this makes me sad... we need WoW back

>>384686787
because you have convinced yourself that you like the game. the quests could be even less than fetch quests, run from point a to point b, and you'd still enjoy it.

>>384686851
there is no profit to be made in a mmo that doesnt cater to casuals. private servers are the best you will ever get for the rest of your life. let that sink in

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>You will never fall in love with a MMOrpg world ever again
Why Live?

>>384686851
You're a fucking faggot.

WoW is what caused this. You're asking for the one MMO that literally RUINED the entire genre.

They made the most money because they made things casual. It was easy so more people would play it. Literally to get more people to pay money. And fags like you did, and you look back on it fondly because you're fucking retarded.

>>384683117
I remember reading that ages ago, funny that it's still relevant

>>384687467
theres no reason to. chester bennington was secretly an oldschool WoWfag and he realized this exact fact yesterday

>>384678636
I'll play it for a month and quit I guess. Fuck nexon

>>384686787
it's really not, it has a ton more plot, dialogue than other MMO, and I agree that the presentation is normally nice, however, sometimes the presentation is fucking horrendous

>walk up to NPC
>are you ready?
>stay still for 2 seconds
>weird nod
>the other NPC stays still for 2 seconds
>does the same nod

and that repeats Ad nauseam, because yes, it has a ton of "cutscenes" so emotes are a good way to save money in animation, but that's not everything

>big battle of Ala Mhigo/Doma
>liberated in a cutscene of 20 soldiers running with GLD animations

they could have hid the battle and show it via sounds, or distant sprites, there's a ton of tricks that developers are used to simulate "big battles" and yet a big budget MMO does this shit

not to mention that 1-47 leveling story is pretty much world-building and most of it boring, only 3.5 ending coup d'tat and many of the HW post-patches story is enjoyable

I think people overestimate the story of FFXIV, and then you "ye olde dialogue translation" which makes everything even more tedious, takes away personality (the little they have) from characters

so, yeah, it's the best rotten meat in the market, still rotten meat, paying expansion price+subscription for a mediocre story is retarded, and I'm telling you this even though I did it

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>>384682603
>go watch gameplay
>literally horrendous and unfun, and clearly you have to play ranged if you don't want to get obliterated

why do people play this shit?

>>384687301
>there is no profit to be made in a mmo that doesnt cater to casuals.
I'm curious. Elysium (All 3 servers) has 11k people online right now. How many players does retail have?

>>384688035
a few millions I'd guess

>>384673764
There are only 5 MMOs right now.

Guild Wars 2

Final Fantasy XIV

World of Warcraft

Elder Scrolls Online

Black Desert

>>384688035
according to what i could find, at the start of 2016 there was 2.3ish million active. i'd guess 1.5-2 today

>>384688229
Final Fantasy XI is still going to be fair... I assume it still makes SE money or they would have pulled support for it. It has been on life support for a couple years now though

>>384688229
Isn't gw2 and eso dead?

>>384688035
I suppose the irony of disliking casuals and playing WoW is totally lost on you.

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>>384688358
Nothing you said is incorrect, but it is still the most profitable Final Fantasy game every made.

>>384688229
You are forgetting OSRS. it is definitelt bigger than a couple of those you mentioned

>>384688495
OSRS?
I've played most of the biggest MMO, but never heard about that one.

>>384674507
Already got tired of it and the leveling is pretty boring just to try new characters

>>384676568
I leveled all the classes to 65 and did endgame dungeons with them all, but im completely burned from it, still it was pretty enjoyable while i played it.

>>384678636
Damn i checked a little on this game seems too good to be true, but yeah Nexon...

dont mind me, just posting some of the best BGM of any mmo ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rYk83Rt0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TnSMXcp2Hg

>>384688656
It's just a name for Old School Runescape

>>384678926
IDK what's worse, pol calling any dissent a shill or the v go back to pol meme.

>>384688358
Apparently XI still is getting content updates (just not story content), and the devs are interested in making a new expansion for it (probably trying to get SE to greenlit the project).
XI, XIV and the gashapon games are how SE gets money to invest on AAA development these days.

>>384688756
FFXI is OST goty

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>>384673858
faggot detected

>>384687467
Play FFXI.
If you already did, then go ahead and neck it.

>>384688756
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqBgujQ_3bg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptdRtai-DII

>play BDO
>get into crafting as well as grinding
>join fun guild
>beat off to your meticulously-sculpted waifu
>kill everyone
>talk mounds of shit

This is the way

>>384690280
how much do they pay you to lie to /v/?

>>384689815
>oh boy it's saturday
>boot up ffxi on the ps2 :^)
>lots of free time, let's look for an exp party!
>load into kazham
>comfy music while i wait for an invite
>fall back asleep listening to music
>miss several party invites :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqL9Mef6NIM&list=PL9A9F2ECC9FA6517B

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>>384678636
It'd be nice if it came out sooner. I like creating and customizing shit and there are physics which is another huge bonus.

>>384688375
GW2 is not dead, I played yesterday and I saw ton of players in WvW and had a low queue for pvp, I also saw ton of people in some cities

it's the least populated of all the big MMOs tho

>>384688375
I play GW2 with my wife and it's great fun with a plenty alive playerbase. The issue is when you hit lategame, without a guild or a raid group you're going to find there's not a lot to do unless you really like playing dressup or PVP.

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>>384690630
>play RDM BRD and WHM
>never wait for invites
>wonder what ppl are always whining about
also
>whm
>selling teleports
>people get tele then warp back to jeuno and try to pay again for a different tele
naw you just paid me you're ok
>they're super grateful
Were people in this game way more greedy than my LS was?

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>>384678636
NEVER
E
V
E
R

>People still playing OSRS

Jesus its 2017. I remember when I was 8 and my class mates talked about it constantly.

>>384691000
And never ever more webm of her or her sister with long hair ;_;

>>384690919
there was a pretty strong sense of community in the game. word got around fast if you were a dick so most people were actually pretty nice like this... at least on my server.

>>384690919
>>384691249
>>384690630
>>384689671
newish ffxi private server if any of you care (not sure if this is all one ffxifag or not)

https://kupoffxi.com/

seems to be better than nasomi except fewer people as its pretty much brand new compared to nasomi

>>384691603
>literal prize money to a person who levels the fastest
>the people who run the server won't just boost a character and win for themselves
>gaining xp and levels is the goal of FFXI
There's so much shit wrong here I am just gonna stop

I loved MMOs. But they all gave me this feeling of being empty and shit.

In my humble opinion, Path of exile gave me a better MMORPG experience than any MMORPG in the market right now, and Path of Exile isn't even an MMORPG.

>>384690629
The same as your salary, $0.

>>384688375

GW2 and ESO are far from dead

>>384691881
>100 people at lv75 and rank 1 who have no idea how to play their jobs
I'll pass thanks

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>>384691603
>Experience rate is 1x.
>Movement speed is 1x

>>384691881
pretty sure this is just a draw to get new people on his server... literally what difference does it make if the guy who runs it does cheat and win for one of his friends?

>>384692084
go play one of the dozen other ffxi private servers if you want the game different than what it used to be? the private server is trying to emulate as close as possible how FFXI was back in 2005ish

>>384692087
It makes a difference because I want money.

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>>384688229
>none of them have hot elf girls, except maybe WoW (not into those giant eyebrows, though)
>one of them don't even have more than one race
>no animu artstyle either
What happened to the golden hair, knife-ears goddesses? Why are they so hare these days?

>>384673858
I wish I played more of Lineage 2 or some old ass animu MMO when I was younger, it would be easier to get into them now if I had some previous experience and a bit of nostalgia magic.

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I tried and refunded BDO, but goddam I have this itch that I can't scratch for an MMO

>>384694662
I got an itch to run challenging dungeons and gear up, I think the only thing that can scratch it is wow but I refuse to pay subscription and buy one xpack just to see

>>384694941
They don't even offer a trial of Legion like they have for every other xpack, so if you want to test the waters its an instant $50+$15 for a month.

>>384694662
is it worth giving aion a try? never tried it or even heard anyone talk about it

>>384695774
To think there was a time where it appeared as a credible WoW concurrent. Wonder if it's still alive.

>tfw been trying a bunch of F2P mmos to find one that doesn't suck ass
>Archeage could have been great if not for the p2w bullshit and shitty labor system
>Aion seemed fun but felt clunky as shit
>Rift makes you buy soul packs and is too dead to be worth investing in
>B&S is basically all PvP at end game
Might give Archerage a try though 'cause that game felt like it could have been pretty good without the shitty p2w stuff.

>>384673764
MMOs are basically online solo player sandbox games nowadays.

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>>384695774
at this point.... not really. I started back in closed beta and loved the fuck out of it. Flying combat was unique, skill chain combat worked really well, and small scale pvp where you infiltrate the enemy zone as a group was fun as fuck. Abyss Fort lag fest sieges were also something truly wonderful, having 500+ people fighting a PvPvE in a 3d battlefield was something to experience.

I stopped once the korean grinding hit. I came back recently and have managed to get to "endgame" where leveling 1 level takes more xp than it took for the past 65, upgrading gear has an RNG change to break your endgame gear.

I saw a post on the forums that said if you have a ton of time and want it to be your only game you play then sure, go for it. It was a fun leveling experience and was the second best MMO imo since WoW. I am excited for the rumored Aion 2, if only for the lore.

>>384696381
for a while it was the second biggest MMO besides WoW

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>>384680606
Like Scams of Elyria or Ashes of the Pyramid Scheme?
I guess Crowfall but that's hardly even an MMO.

>>384688375
GW2 is perfectly fine.
ESO is alright. Not thriving, but surviving well enough.

>>384696971
>tfw not LIVING IN THE DATABASE DATABASE WOWOWOWOWOW

>>384692271

Literally impossible since the game was dependent on the community. Have fun never doing any fucking content besides some EXP parties.

>>384673764
Ive been looking for a good mmo for so many years. The last good one i played was archeage. That game had so much potential but p2w ruined it. Im honestly at the point where i just give up. I dont think the genre can ever get back to its former glory. I am watching a couple though, pantheon rise of the fallen is essentially everquest and chronicles of elyria could be really cool but i stay sceptical. Kickstarter games are the only hope because game companies want mass appeal to make the most shekels.

>>384696743
Seem like it had a fair run, maybe 1 million players?

>>384698468
it capped around 3 million I think

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What do you guys think about action focused MMOs aka combat > graphics?

>>384698802
Dunno what to call those, but they aren't MMOs. They're more akin to mobas than MMOs.

Also, they're all boring and souless. And usually shameless cash grabs.

>>384698802
could be completely replacd with a text menu. The added element of distance feels wonky, mousoueque at best glorified morrowind at worst

>>384698921
>>384699024
>MMOs must have boring combat to be MMOs
That sounds self defeating desu

>>384698921
What do you find boring about them? It can't be the combat since their combat has greater depth than something like FFXIV which is a snore fest. I think Phantasy Star Online 2 is really fucking fun and it's nothing like an MMO. I really miss Vinductus too.

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>>384680262
>all that content they cut out at the last minute so they could stuff it with absolute shit and turn it into another singleplayer Korean cash shop fuckfest
Every time I see it shilled here as some revolutionary MMO I die a little inside.

>>384685427
>nuRO
>good
Trans was a mistake. Just like in real life.

Reminder; Korea has completely abandoned the PC MMO market. There have been two GSTARs and not a single new MMO has been announced for PC. GSTAR has been literally Mobile Phone MMOs for the past two years. Years before that have been nothing but ports or new content for older games.

Chinese now run the PC MMO market. Stop calling everything a Korean MMO, you sound ignorant.

>>384699067

So you think morrowinds combat or mousou is good and not boring at all?
Are you retarded?

>>384698802
clusterfuck with so much cheese that the king of cheddar would be instantly defeated in a 550 hit combo
and I don't understand why they call it mmo when it's basically 100% instanced

>>384699839
>Preferring shitty tab target 20 hotkey trash

>>384699970

Stop acting like oyu have an opinion worth a shit, since you cant even phrase it like a human being.

>>384699536
>he can't tell Chinese characters apart from Korean characters

>>384699435
Why must you take every single chance to remind us that you're unhappy with what other people are doing with their lives?
Just mind your own goddamn business or complain on the designated complaining board.

>>384700367
At least the "musou trash" in the webm at least gives the illusion of being more exciting than the shitty combat popularized by WoW and infecting every shitty MMO.

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>>384699959
>I don't understand why they call it mmo when it's basically 100% instanced

I keep seeing people say this and whenever I ask this question no one ever answers me, so I'm going to ask you because maybe you will; If MMOs cannot be instanced based, what the hell do we call Blade & Soul?

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>get memed by people saying this is a pvp sandbox
>economy is controlled, safe zones, no trading, not a single sandbox element is in the game, devs punish you for pking
>pvp is 100% gear based
>pvp has rng elements like accuracy/evasion
>you can't even get to pvp because it takes thousands of hours to get the gear to pvp
>there isnt even a gear equalized arena
>the only thing you do is grind shit ai ez mode trash mobs or afk fish
>the lifeskills literally just play the game for you

Fuck the faggots who said this was a good game

>>384700680
I dunno, never play blade & soul

>>384700519
Go get some pills for your ADHD if you need flair every .2 seconds to keep you interested and engaged. An
>illusion of being more exciting
is utterly pointless if you have an attention span greater than that of a moth.

>>384700873
It's one of the worst MMOs in recent years. People get baited by the character creator, is all.

Ironically, the creator is actually super limiting.

>>384700519
Might be, doesnt unshit it. A tiny bit better shit and even that is subjective since its wonky. Best combat systems are still ffx1 and ffx12 or dragons age origins on consoles since they are on point on dont have kiting mechanics that a fundamentaly wrong and broken und unfun. (modern action mmos). Action mmo =go monsterhunter/dark souls route or fuck off
vanilla mmo= go listed above or fuck off. Everythign inbetween cant be called combat system

games i bought and played

>wow
shit
>final fantasy
boring shit
>albion
p2w and shit
>black desert
boring grind shit

>>384700873
There is literally nothing wrong with needing gear or having RNG in PvP. Go play a twitch shooter if you don't want RPG mechanics.
The real problem is it's yet another Korean (or Chinese, whatever) grindfest, which negatively impacts every other portion of the gameplay.

>>384701054
This tbdesu. It's a hell of a waifu machine though, which is why all anyone ever does is post screenshots.

>>384701054
Honestly while playing I just wanted to play pvp in it, thats fucking it. I understood quickly it was not a sandbox, but jesus man you make a very smooth combat system and do what with it? No gear equalized pvp, so your forced to grind the most ez mode pve content ive ever seen. All so you can throw your gear into a lottery of rng upgrades.

Koreans are truly the jews of the asain world, only the most scumbag greedy fucks would design a game to be like that.

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>>384700893
Then I'll give you a run down; Blade & Soul is 100% Instance Based while at the same time being Open World. Each part of the world is an Instance area. There's are portals that you must go through in order to reach the next area and sometimes it requires you to load the area before entering which puts you on a loading screen with an official BnS Image/Artwork. MMOs are games that feature a large amount of players in a single area. Blade & Soul does that while being an Instance based game. You can have hundreds of people in one area at a time.

>>384700680
Ignore him. I've been coming to MMO threads for the past 3 weeks, and a lot of people are complaining that if the game doesn't some how force you to be at the mercy of other people's social skills, then it's a bad MMO, even though it's just the removal of bad gameplay mechanics.

>>384687485
>MUH EVIL WoW
Lmao kys baby

>>384701296
whats your opinion on gw2

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>>384678636
If this and Lost Ark turn out to be good I'll be in heaven.

>>384701345
>so your forced to grind
Or give them more money, which is of course their entire goal.

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>>384701312
>there is literally nothing wrong with having RNG in PvP
You mmo fags are fucking delusional, why not just go to a casino for your next big pvp match then

Have any of you guys tried this wow private server? Custom classes and full loot PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m24ob0SyTu4&list=PLck48pDrHnMylpFvZnXsmPbpXZedZ-TQf

I wonder if it will even work

>>384701358
Wait, not that anon, and sorry if I misunderstood, but are you suggesting that in this game you go into an instanced area, and there are people already there?

>tfw no MHOnline in the west
>Have to wait a year for MH Worlds
Another game like Vindictus but without Nexon would be nice.

>>384701546
>but are you suggesting that in this game you go into an instanced area, and there are people already there?

Yes. As I said, some times you have to load the area before entering. The entire world is NEVER all loaded, like, Black Desert Online for example which have ZERO loading screen.

>>384701520
Might be neat, but you'd have to redesign the entire game to make it work with full loot drop.

If the skills have some new stuff in them, though, might be worth playing.

>>384701440
>gook shit
>ever good
Even the worst Jap trash is miles better than gook shit

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what do you guys think about mabinogi? i spent about 72 hours playing before i just stopped for whatever reason, thinking about getting back in soon

>>384701460
It's a role playing game you spastic shit. Your character is the focus, not the faggot behind the screen who wants his personal ability to hit buttons to be rewarded. The issue here is you don't want a role playing game, so stop playing them.

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>everything is a subscription with a cash shop
>Shit
>Or made by Nexon
Is Nexon worse than EA? They have to be pretty close, right?

>>384701729
. . .Anon, that's not an instance.

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>>384701771
>It's a role playing game
>that means there has to be rng in it
>i dont understand what role playing means
Just end yourself

>>384701815
Does Nexon buy out good companies and IPs to kill them? Because that would make sense and if so, yes.

>>384701815
What Nexon does to fuck up their MMOs?

>>384701856
An Instance is an area in the game that house a large about of players and in order to reach the games content outside of that area one must load into another instance area. Is that not what a instance is?

>>384681391
>What if we made a sandbox MMO and the main systems in place only work if there are tons of players
>But we make it look like dogshit and put a price tag on it
>Also put some P2W options in the mix
Theres your rundown on Albion. Its a shame it had some neat ideas but it wont escape dedgame status

>>384702040
No, that's not what an instance is. An instance is when you enter into an area and a new "instance" of that area is created solely for you and your party. There is no one else there, because it is an instance of that dungeon. It's a programming term, but it also came about in MMOs because people were complaining about going into dungeons and all the loot having been already gone and the bosses already killed.

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>>384701762
https://youtu.be/zqtcTlTH44o

>>384701905
The RNG is your character's performance. It's influenced their stats. Removing that removes the substitute for the clearly inanimate character's skills. That's the reason tabletop STR checks weren't settled by arm wrestling instead of dice. I'll say it one last time, you want an online action adventure game with a character creator, not an MMORPG.

>>384702018
Shit servers, P2W shit, and pretty much all of their games have costumes locked behind paywalls.

>>384673764
Here's your redpill OP
MMOs are shit, they haven't done anything new since WoW, and WoW was just EverQuest with better balancing.

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>>384702316
>I cant roleplay unless there is rng

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>>384702467
>WoW was just [literally anything here] with better balancing.

>>384702462
>pretty much all of their games have costumes locked behind paywalls.
fuck, not even good as a fashion sim

>>384702213
So then, if you can hit things outside of a dungeon it's not an instance. But what about games that focus on dungeons? Games like TERA aer open world but you barely ever do open world content in that game. 90% of the time you're in a dungeon.

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>>384702525
You can role play in a FPS if you want to. RPG is a genre, not a catch all for any game you can possibly role play in.

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>>384702770
>I define rpg as anything I personally wish it to be based off of my own idea of what is and what isn't an rpg

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>>384673764
Redpill you? Okay. All modern MMOs and practically all online games use Operant Conditioning and the games themselves act as de-facto skinner boxes.

If they gave you loot you needed every time, you would quickly bore of it.
If they never gave you loot, you'd quit even faster than before.
But if they only give you loot on some of your wins then you will try constantly forever to get the loot.

Practically every sub-based or freemium game do this.

This is you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOgowRy2WC0

>>384702734
No, I used the dungeon as an example. An instanced area is one that is created specifically only for that character and/or their party. It's not limited to dungeons, but it will usually manifest itself that way.

Likewise, you can have non-instanced stuff, meaning that random literal-whos will just walk in, but that runs into the danger of having bosses/chests claimed before you get there.

How is the Star Wars Galaxies emulator coming along?

Will they ever pull off JTL?

>>384703036
Galaxies was its playerbase plus the game.

The emulator cannot emulate the player base, so it's never going to be the same experience, not even close.

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What about mu legend, what you guys think?

>>384703164
looks like gook trash.

>>384702987
>An instanced area is one that is created specifically only for that character and/or their party.
Ok. Blade & Soul does this whenever you grab certain story mode quest. When done you leave that solo instance area and return back to the player instance area without any loading. So you're always there but they can't see you and you can't see them.

>>384703116
The emu servers seemed to have a comfy-enough playerbase last I checked, has it died off to post-NGE levels or something?

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PSO2 is still my favorite MMO.
I do wish more people played PSP2i though.

>>384703459
the hell is this class?

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The red pill is either you play a dumbed down wow clone trainride from western devs
or
You play a korean mmo with great ideas but it comes with an infinite grind fest that takes thousands of hours to do anything

So basically just stop playing mmos, they are a shit genre for people who can't git gud at pvp games or just shitty multiplayer versions of singleplayer rpgs. Maybe once everyone stops playing mmo's they will finally bother to make a good one.

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>KuF 2 still has no firm western release date
>PSO2 will never be released in the west
>FFXI is dead
>RO is dead
>Tree of savior is garbage

>>384703432
The way you're using terms is confusing. >When done you leave that solo instance area and return back to the player instance
They leave the solo instance and return back to the world. Don't say instance again. It is possible to have instances within instances, but those are special, unusual cases.
>So you're always there but they can't see you and you can't see them.
You're there on the map within the instance, and leaving an instance just means you get placed back into the world.

Also, lots of MMOs do that. FF14 will give you a cutscene that plays out with only you, and once the cutscene is over, you're back. And the boss fights for story purposes also usually happen in an instance, as well as dungeons.

Map with only you and party members = Instance
Map with other players that you don't know = Not-instanced
Game is 100% instanced = Offline single-player.

>>384703732
Okay, you fucking naysayers. What DO you want from an MMO?

>>384703730
Hero class. It uses Swords / TMG's / Talises, and can freely switch between weapons during combos.

In order to unlock it, you need at least 3 other classes (1 Ranged, 1 Magic, 1 Melee) to be level 75.

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>>384673764
I miss the feeling I had when I played RO (It wasn't even my first MMO) of a huge world worth exploring without theme-park meta centered gameplay that doesn't feel rewarding because literally everyone else accomplishes the same thing and if they don't, the progress resets during the next patch anyways.

I'd make a new account on RS but I feel it'd miss the feeling of exploration and discovering something new anyway.

>>384703835
Something that breaks the mold without being a grinding simulator, something with some fucking challenge for once, something you can actually role play in besides "le based chosen one has come, now go kill 20 orcs for me", a real fucking sand box maybe.

Anything man, anything that isn't the garbage they pump out everyday.

>>384703732
>Kill off MMOs before Visual Novels and Job Simulators like Minecraft

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>>384703835
I just want Vindictus with more guild raids and less gear upgrade lottery mechanics

>>384673764
I remember this MMO actually being pretty fun but I just stopped playing because I was getting too much lag on the private servers

The quests werw actually pretty fun like that one where you have to steal machine parts and use them to create a mech to enter into a mech fighting competition

I just want an MMO with a good Summoner class...

I'm playing BDO Tamer right now, and it's okay I guess, but like usual, summoning isn't the main focus of the class, being a spastic melee fighter is.

>>384704165
Peria Chronicles is basically Pokemon summoners, but it is Nexon trash.

>>384704076
VN's arent video games anon and minecraft is a better sandbox then any mmo out now that isn't dead as fuck.

>>384682603
I just started this and it's just fucking grinding. Endless, endless grinding.

Pvp consists of roaming gank squads that target smaller groups and avoid equal or bigger ones.

Is there any anime MMO that's not fantasy? I'd love some kind of third person military shooter with cute anime girls on it, hell it doesn't even need to be a shooter, can even be mmorpg bullshit i'd still play it, I'm just so tired of fantasy.

>>384704085
Give me vindictus with an actual world, even a garbage one.

>>384704059
That requires risk, so it's never happening, unless it's by indie devs.

And if it's by indie devs, it'll get killed by patreon/kickstarter shit, or it'll never get done, or it won't have enough players and be stillborn.

Same old shit. MMOs haven't changed in nearly 20 fucking years. You can't say that for any other genre.

>>384691000
Production manager for Maplestory 2 got hired in December 2016, give it time.

>>384691119
Gook-anon will deliver, just wait.

>>384703835
>Interesting content from the start, like dungeons that are actually difficult and require coordination, strong world bosses, raids, etc. Basically something that's not tedious quest grinding to reach level cap as fast as possible.
>An item upgrade system that allowed you to take that unique, named weapon that dropped off a world boss and upgrade it all the way to level cap, making upgrade path choices along the way (Speed vs Strength, Elemental damage vs raw, etc.).
>A combat system where basic attacking involves stuff like directional attacks, timed blocks, parries, dodging/rolling but manages to not get retarded about it like Chivalry did. Powerful skills that require more than just pressing a single button to initiate. A magic system that allows more freedom than, "Cast most hurtful spell when it's off cooldown."
Basically I want something that's pretty much impossible and entirely based off chinese cartoons about MMOs.

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>>384704349
That really should be a thing

>>384683609
>>384687619
>>384688727
There is nothing wrong with Nexon.

>>384704349
Way back when, I remember there was a nexon MMORPG where you played as a space-fighter plane.

>>384673998
>>384689047
>he says on an anime board

>>384704395
Thats why I said to just stop playing mmo's, they are fucking dead as a genre. Its either western ez mode rail system or korean grindfest rng shit.

>>384700873
I thought they removed accuracy/evasion from pvp in patch, but yeah, the game is a pile of shit.

>>384701312
There is a big difference between
>Gear has an impact because this is an RPG
And
>Because I spent more time grinding than you, I can kill you in a single combo while you can't even scratch the paint on my armor.

>>384701345
Koreans are the "true jews" of Asia until you meet a real Chinese person. All those copypastas about them lying to your face then lying when you confront them about it with proof with you then in the end caving and saying "you should have just paid me more and I wouldn't have tried to screw you" are real, and 100% true, especially in manufacturing but not exclusively there. Koreans are smalltime jews compared to chinks and poo-in-loos.

>>384703459
Damn. That looks pretty fun. Is it worth trying to get into PSO2 at this point or is it another super ded game?

>>384701762
combat and craftings pretty fun, its really easy to get overpowered strong though. also its community isnt fantastic, either drama queens or autists. mabi.pro is a decent private server for it

>>384704660
>I thought they removed accuracy/evasion from pvp
No I fucking wish, well actually It wouldnt matter to me because the grind is so insane I refuse to play it anyways. Literally no skill braindead grinding for thousands of hours is cancer.

>>384704801
The japanese servers at least are still completely alive, with lot's of players and events. I don't know anything about the western servers, though.

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SWL is pretty great. Quest and world design is top shelf, and the gameplay does its job.

It has a lot less depth than TSW though, which is both a good and a bad thing. Good in that it doesn't repel people away from the game like the original game did with its "Built poorly? This character is now fucked" shenanigans, but also bad because of the lack of build variety (compared to TSW that is, it has decent build variety when contrasted with MMOs in general).

>>384673764
They're all shit.
But don't worry guys. Camelot Unchained is here to save the genre.

>>384704801
Game is extremely popular, getting new content every other week.

English speakers play on Ship 2, where you're much more likely to find an English speaker than a jap. JP night hours even more so.

>>384704890
The combat is somehow worse than it used to be, and it used to be fucking awful. And the questing alone isn't enough to make the game enjoyable.

It needs more.

>>384704764
At least the chinese aren't coming around and fucking up every game they can get their hands on. As long as something makes money they don't give a fuck, compared to nexon or bdo they are nice honest people.

>>384701815
No, EA is worse.

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>>384705114
You really think so? Having extensively played both games, I think that SWL's combat is a vast improvement over TSW. That isn't to say that it is great MMO combat, though. Just an improvement from TSW.

>>384704872
>>384705086
Alright cool. Thanks guys

>>384705278
>he hasn't played chinese phone "games"
also, moonlight blade is getting an EN version hosted by nexon, I'm already thinking up a drinking game for all the things that china and nexon collaborating can fuck up.

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>GW2
>playable qt3.14 plant girls
>Other MMO's
>No playable qt3.14 plant girls

Really activates the almonds

>>384686686

Azim steppes was the best zone in the game so far. Also all the best HW story was in the patches not 3.0.

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>>384704510

>>384682603
Is this a shill thread?

>>384703459
>webm

Downloading now.

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>>384704890
>Already owned the game? You don't get shit
>Pay for cosmetics
>Pay for consumables
>Pay to use other skillsets
>Pay SEPARATELY to get access to the passives for skillsets
>Pay to get gear
>Pay to reset repeatable quests
>Pay to get keys to get RANDOM rewards from dungeons
>Pay to make your weapon better
>Pay for inventory/storage slots (costs more each time)
>Pay to trade with other players (and you can't trade with those that don't pay)
>Pay to run faster

>>384705560
I don't like vegetables in my meals, so I certainly don't want them in my women either.

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>>384705560
>>GW2
>>playable
Pick one.

>>384703459
I guess I'm going to have to learn Japanese, huh?

>>384705545
It will be hard to top bdo, they have make it worse than
>b2p
>with a subscription
>and a p2w cash shop
I mean is there any lower than that? What else could they do?

>>384705441
Oh, and you can actually play the game in english, there's a fan translation patch.

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>>384673764
Everything is garbage at the moment and you're wasting your time if you aren't playing WoW or FFXIV, and even those aren't great.
Your best bet is to just wait it out for now. There's some new shit on the horizon, like Camelot Unchained, that we just have to see for ourselves when it comes out. Maybe try out a WoW private server if you can find a good Vanilla/BC one.
If you're thinking about something like Vindictus or Black Desert, don't. Webm posters show off lots of fancy animations and shit but everything outside of the combat in these games is boring, shallow, and have tons of Korean grind.

>>384703990
nigception

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>>384705560
>Playing the mary sue salads

I still can't get over how mildly everyone reacted to the knowledge that Sylvari were Mordremoth's minions. Mass exile from the other cities is the least I expected, but I guess you can't do anything bad to the salads in GW2land

>>384705769
Yeah I saw that on the reddit a minute ago. Probably wouldn't have played if there wasn't one 'cause trying to play Dragon's Dogma Online when that first came out with even just a partial English patch was pretty rough.

>>384705741
No. There's an English patch team that pretty much translates everything as soon as it's released.

Look up PSO2 Tweaker, it's the launcher made by the patch team that lets you download the game and such.

>>384705881
>human
>calling others mary sues
Really gets the noggin joggin'.

>>384682603
really glad i didnt fall for this shit, 2-3 years of hardcore milking with founder pack email spam but the prices were just too ridiculous. and now its fucking buy to play instead of the promised f2p. a real joke.

>>384705768
You don't even understand P2W yet if you think such a smalltime cash shop is truly bad. Nexon actively encourages spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on MS in order to be worth a shit, or they did back before it was run into the ground. nexon isn't even the worst that has ever existed, it's only third; aeria is worse (see OP, you can spend over 50K USD if you have bad luck with getting the eidolons you want, assuming you want to max tier them, which you do), and first place is gpotato, nothing will ever beat gpotato, I remember speaking with most of the high end players on AIKA and each of them confided that they had spent 6 figures and in one case SEVEN figures on that game over it's lifetime, only for the game to flop a couple years later; there are mobile game tier babby whales and then there are REAL FUCKING WHALES

>>384703957
Sounds crazy, but is there even a point to other classes when you can unlock one that's that versatile?

>>384706162
The cash shop by it self wasn't bad, it was the fact it was 40$ to play, has a subscription, AND a cash shop. I stay away from anime meme mmos for the most part that aeria releases, same thing with mobile """"games""" . So I dont know the exact horrors that lie in those hellholes.

>>384706292
We won't know until the class releases in a few days.

On one hand, it'd be best to balance it with the other classes. On the other, if it isn't more powerful, then there's no point to having it be hard to unlock.

>>384705662
>Already owned the game? You don't get shit
False. You get every single weapon page unlocked (both actives and passives) and all of your TSW cosmetics carry over.

>Pay for cosmetics
They have to get money from something, and getting it from something that offers no gameplay advantages whatsoever is not bad

>Pay for consumables
What consumables are you referring to? There's an apothecary (or multiple) in each zone that you can buy buff potions from for the in-game currency

>Pay to use other skillsets
With in-game currency

>Pay SEPARATELY to get access to the passives for skillsets
No longer the case. You unlock both actives and passives of a weapon with the same purchase now.

>Pay to get gear
Not the only way to get gear. You can run dungeons and just generally play the game to get gear.

>Pay to reset repeatable quests
To reset them faster. Repeatable quests reset for everyone, just considerably faster for paying customers

>Pay to get keys to get RANDOM rewards from dungeons
You get a set amount of keys every day even as a free player. Paying players get a few more.

>Pay to make your weapon better
There is no reason to pay real money to upgrade your gear other than expediency. The game gives you enough distillates and gear to upgrade without ever paying a cent.

>Pay for inventory/storage slots (costs more each time)
It costs in-game currency. Sure, you can trade premium currency for the in-game currency but again, all you are getting is expediency in getting something

>Pay to trade with other players (and you can't trade with those that don't pay)
This one is a legit concern that I share. It is an effort to fight botting, so it is somewhat understandable.

>Pay to run faster
You can get most of the sprint upgrades with in-game currency. I think only the last two cost premium currency exclusively, and even then you can gather the in-game currency and trade it for the premium currency to get those. Paying will, again, only expediate things.

>>384706042
>Abandoned by their gods, one of which has now returned and doesn't seem to give a shit about the wellbeing of the race they once protected
>Mary sues

>>384682989

This ESO is good shit.

I admit to being a MMO casual, but I like it.

It does suck that the houses don't provide storage though. That's some bullshit....

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>>384701762
Even though its dated in pretty much every way possable, it really knows how to do comfy right. A lot of mmo's could really stand to borrow some of the things this game did right.

>>384704230

I've been waiting on it for ages, but news is sparse.

>>384682989

Too bad it looks like trash, the animations look like you are playing a cripple with down's syndrome and you will never, ever make a character that doesn't look like he's wearing downgraded Morrowind textures.
All in trade of a GW2 ripoff with a few Skyrim elements thrown in - and not the good ones.

>>384707663

You're too picky.

Are you ever happy with anything?

I bet you are also going to complain about my "reddit" spacing aren't you?

>>384708357

I couldn't care less.

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>>384705881
>Jumping on the salad hate bandwagon because of 2 poorly written characters

I shiggy dig

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>>384702973
>babby's first psychology concept

>>384705768
bdo doesnt have a subscription

>>384709371
But I didn't even mention Trahearne or any single sylvari in particular. Just that the race itself seems to get away with things that would not fly for anyone else.

The Charr committed genocide and there are still humans who hate them for it and enact skirmishes and acts of terror towards them, for example. Meanwhile, Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions and everyone just shrugged and went on with their business.

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>>384709869
>doesnt have a subscription
>literally 30% less silver than anyone else who has it

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>Just want a new MMO to play
>All of the MMOs on the market right now are total trash
Please, God, let Caravan Stories or Petria Chronicles be even just a little bit good. I want a new game that I can look forward to immersing myself in; to meet new people and have something to look forward to. I can't remember the last time I actually enjoyed an MMO for more than a week or two. Everything has turned into gear treadmill themeparks and I can't stand it. I tried playing FFXIV again a few months ago but I got bored to tears after getting to about lvl 55. There's so much of NOTHING to do, and all of it is padded out with mandatory single player quests. It's hardly an MMO, just a shitty single player game with an unused chatbox. Every MMO now is a WoW derivative or FUCKINg DEAD, sometimes both.

Caravan Stories seems really interesting honestly, but there's no telling when it'll release, and if it'll come out in English at all.

>>384673858
isnt FF anime?

>>384706831
Seems like the kind of game I can run on a tablet.
I'll try it

>>384710220
MMO's are a trash genre. Your fault for expecting something good out of a shit genre.

>>384710070
Weren't there a lot of npcs shitting on salads in the new maps?
I remember there were rebel pact soldiers exterminating them in the jungle map

>>384704563
>anime board
how to spot a neoshitter

>>384710169
Thats not a subscription though, thats just more p2w bullshit

>>384711543
>its 15$ a month that you have to refresh every month
>not a subscription

>>384711068
But there have been enjoyable MMOs in the past, even if they were flawed. Ragnarok was great when it was still active and new. So was FFXI.

>>384711114
There were a few who doubted their loyalties, but they were quickly silenced by a "lol we can keep our cool k?"

Something like that should have cast a shadow on the sylvari that lasts for a long time.

>>384711661
>have to
its completely optional, you'll be behind people that have it, but you dont have to have it

unless you live in one of those shit countries that they charge for the game

>>384673764
Serious question, are there any good MMOs for non-autistic people? I've been craving one for a long time, but the repetitivness kills my interest every fucking time.

>>384711851
>its optional
Yea dude your only 30% slower to getting gear in a game that requires you to grind for literal thousands of hours. I mean what does a different of 500+ hours matter to anyone? Not to mention never being able to even come close to catching up to anyone who has it.

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>>384711053
>I can run on a tablet.
For a Korean MMO from 2004, it runs like shit even with the right hardware, half the game's problems stem from really dated coding and trying to keep up with todays time/coding. The font alone is enough to lag the game but if you can ignore a lot of this games little problems(and they add up over time), its a pretty decent sol mmo.

>>384711927
>the repetitivness kills my interest every fucking time
MMOs, at the core, are all about incentivising repetitive shit. If it has a lot of variety you'll have a choice of what repetitive shit you can do at any given moment. You can't really pump out the amount of content an MMO calls for and still make it a rollercoaster of novelty and variety.

>>384712012
so you agree, its optional and not a required cost to actually access the base game

>>384700873
There was a time when RNG effected your base level up values. People found out and they were forced to remove it.

>>384712543
kys my man its not optional if your at a huge disadvantage by not using it. Lose 30% silver means 30% less gear means you get fucked by every player who has it compared to you .

The best MMORPG currently on the market is Realm of the Mad God.

That's right, bitches.

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>>384710220
I'm also waiting for Caravan Stories and Petria Chronicles, plus Alchemia Story and Moonlight Blade.
Unfortunately I'm desperate so I'm still playing FFXIV anyway.

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>>384711927
You could just play something like ESO or GW2 and dump them when the repetition starts to stick in.

>>384712889
After the ownership change? I find that hard to believe. Thought they were pumping the playerbase dry.

>>384712785
how many people actually have it?
you're clearly retarded, anon

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>>384686686
>HW was 10 times better than this garbage

U are absolutely right. I like in HW even though you stopped the king you know nidhogg was out so there was still more to the story. All we have here is the side characters are really not dead! To be continued XD.

fucking stupid

>>384713170
Not an argument

>>384712338
>right hardware
Like?
I just wanted to play something light on resources.

>>384682715

>Supporting Trion at all
>Playing the abortion that is anything 3.0 or higher
>Paying $15 a month to not have a house, shitty connection services and encounter server merges like Calleil where I get to lose all my shit and start over

No fucking thanks, goy. I bet you play Harani too.

>>384712995
I think it changed ownership again and got better, might be wrong

>Eastern mmos usually have better core gameplay, but their UIs are complete messes that need to be extensively customized before you can even begin playing and their F2P plans are often really jewish
>Western MMOs have good, slick UIs and better F2P plans, but the core gameplay leaves something to be desired

When will we get a game that combines the best of both worlds?

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People need to move away from MMOs and develop more multiplayer action titles.

>>384680251
BDO is grind to win. So it's already too late to be top dog

>>384713696
Pre 1.0 archeage. Speaking of, has Archeage been fixed yet?

>>384713490
only good MMO posted in this thread.

>>384713896
>Trion
>FIXING FUCKING ANYTHING
Yeah never fucking ever.

>>384712995
>You could just play something like ESO or GW2 and dump them when the repetition starts to stick in.
Yeah, did that with GW2 during HoT release. Was actually pretty awesome for a week until they nerfed literally all difficulty to accomodate for casuls.

>>384706045
And that's why it will fail. Can't get the population to have it's game mechanics work.

>>384713958
Shame, it had so much potential. It was nearly perfect before launch.

>>384684056

It has plenty of open land. At least for 16x16s and below. There's a huge English zerg guild called Forsaken, but they're literally as unorganized as can be and have zero coordination or motive to work with any other guilds. The client is initially on Russian, but it's piss-easy to change it to English. Just have to make a character, then go under C:\Users\USER\Documents\ArcheAge, open "system.cfg" and add locale = "en_us" to the very bottom of the list and save. Not sure about East side, but West side is pretty rad.

>All the Chinese and Korean MMOs with hyper-realistic characters, and worlds filled with generic fantasy elements
AT LEAST TRY, GODDAMN IT

>>384684274

What is five seconds of Google to prove it exists?

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WoW: stopped being good after WotLK, only appeals to shit-eating casuals now
FFXIV: decent clone of WoW, its unfortunate that the combat is so shitty
Albion Online/Runescape/other "sandbox" trash: mindless grindfests, stay far away
Korean games (Black Desert, DFO, etc): they are all pay2win, avoid at all costs

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>>384713898

True.