>players want a necromancer class because of nostalgia >introduce

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>>384553916
Wrong.
You need one of two sets to be able to clear content, and you are right on this, the best way to play with these sets is by having NO pets.
If you want me to describe D3 necromancer then: A group of devs were forced to create something they didn't want to do.

>>384553916
what do you define as end game content?

the only really shitty set is pestilence.

>>384554193
Im saying if you want to be a necromancer and push the limits in greater rifts, you have to use the Bone Armor build or youre gimping yourself

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>>384553916

Blizzad didn't create diablo, and nu-blizz has always treated it as a bastard child. They have no vested interest other than taking credit for it and your money.

>>384553916
Good. I never liked this whole le skeletons lol meme. All I ever needed was the blood golem+iron maiden combo. Until it got nerfed in LoD. Then I just went full bone spec.

>>384554859
Maybe so, but when I think of a Necromancer I think of summoning a bunch of spooky skellingtons not whacking people with a scythe and covering myself with bone armor

>>384553916
>pet necro is gay as fuck
>they give the pet set for its first season
melee dark wizard necro is goat
also youre an idiot if you think pet necro cant "push the limits" in high GRs

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>>384554353
>>384554696
>Jay Wilson designs the D3 skill setup to not have a skill tree
>instead you have access to all skills and runes so as to promote greater build diversity
>complete failure in balance, theory was wrongheaded
>keep the same skill/rune system in place but don't bother attempting balance
>now sets fully determine a build with very minor variations

The most meaningful choice you have in D3 is what transmog your armor is.

>>3384553916
Im leveling on T5 while i go through the story. Also only using crafted or found gear.
Level 53, still in Act 1.
I see my current build as a revamped build i would use in D2.
I guess i will find out if you are memeing about end game or not. Though i still couldnt be too pressed as my interest lies mostly within pushing creative builds.

does the necro dlc add any story content or is it just the class?

>>384553916
Define end-game content. I just ran through GR42 with my pet build with almost no problem.

>>384554174
stfu drumpfette

>>384554983
>complete failure in balance, theory was wrongheaded
Elaborate. How's D3 system worse than D2, which had you put points in one, maybe two offensive skills, and the skills that further boost its damage through skill synergy bonus, but only ever actually use that one super boosted offensive skill?

>>384555053
Just the class and some cosmetic shit and stash tabs

>>384555137
Im talking GR70+

Not saying the pet builds are complete shit, im saying the Bone Armor build is just so much better that if youre not playing that build, youre not as strong as you could be

>>384555137
42 is low as fuck, any build can do that

>>384555221
and they want 15 for this? wtf? the story in D3 isnt that great but not adding anything but the class and meaningless junk is terrible. if it was $5 I could see it being worth it.

>>384555275
you can make that argument for any class

>>384555320
Yeah, they should've held Necro off until the next expack with big bro Meph actually being the final boss like he deserves.

>>384554983
Sets are a part of it. The most meaningful choice are the kunai enchantments.

If you're wanting to clear GRs, you can mess around with builds you like but ANY game is going to have min/max builds. People act like Diablo III is it's own bastard but D2 was the same but with different build mechanics.

Isn't there a pet focused set for Necromancer?
If not, Blizz have made a huge mistake.

>>384555405
Of course every build has the one thats far better than the rest, thats not my argument.

Im saying why was the design team's choice to make the best Necromancer build the one with no minions?

>>384555468
There is 1. And it's shit for what actually matters (GR100+)

>>384554983
And then this piece of shit moved over to WoW and brought all his cancerous bullshit with him.

>>384555275
but best right now is corpse lance trag oul, why are you saying its bone armor when its not?

is there a poison nova build?

>>384555521
Then why are there 2 builds for GR 100+ with the pet set on the front page of diablofans?

>>384555565
Corpse lance Trag is not better

>>384555217

this

d3's approach is a lot better, but it's inevitable that players will find the one best build which outperforms everything else. that's just more of a balancing issue and it's pretty prominent in basically every Blizzard game

>one character/build/class/whatever enjoys being OP and that's the only thing that everyone plays
>Blizzard dumpsters them in a following patch
>new build becomes OP
>cycle repeats

Well, that's an inherent problem in "beating the game" being a foregone conclusion (if you made the numbers hidden, the most facerollable artificial difficulty setting yields identical experience to the highest greater rifts) and the only "content" being pushing the leaderboards.

If the game had difficulty settings similar to D2 (which admittedly would be a terrible idea if implemented verbatim because the campaign of D3 is fucking awful and the last thing you want to do is play it multiple times), most people would be satisfied being able to finish the game with their builds of choice at the highest difficulty and being able to complete the game puts most builds to relative parity, but if the goal of the game is to reach ever higher greater rifts (with even the 20 something regular artificial difficulty settings turning redundant), the window of "viable" builds closes down to a few.

This problem is further reinforced by the fact that "builds" are 99% dependent on specific items or set bonuses rather than skill and stat choices. A "build" that has set bonuses and special effects from items boosting it could be 4 or 5 orders of magnitude stronger than a seemingly synergetic mix of skill a player likes (say, chain lightning and lightning storm rune increasing lightning damage taken by 15%) with rare items providing precisely the stats and affixes the build needs.

>>384555695
Its called having a competent balancing team

Path of Exile does it reasonably well

>>384555275
Bone Lance build is a head above Bone Armor build, for now.

But people need to remember to ask, are you playing this competitively? (Competitive Diablo lol...) Then you can probably forget about builds and mess around with set swapping, enchantments, and skill swapping and still push GRs, especially with friends.

>>384555751

blizzard being bad at balancing was what i was getting at

>>384555671
check ladder mate, it is.

on side note, it still no minions build just like bone armor, so yea, its still shame

>>384555751
It really doesn't.

Corpse lance builds are just superior right? For most of the game?

That skill plus the golem corpses, and mage corpses seems to output the most damage. Maybe throw the 18 percent execute curse too.

>>384555751
>Path of Exile does it reasonably well

But that's just fucking wrong you faggot.

>>384555726
>if you made the numbers hidden
They'd just get datamined/empirically reverse engineered.

>>384555931
It does though. I know that people still flock around certain builds because streamers play them or whatever, but you can kill Shaper with just about any build if you are good enough

PnB was always the correct necro build.

>>384555538
Jay Wilson isn't a game designer anymore retard

>>384555695
Because the entire rift system promotes this and nothing else. You are forced to play specific builds if you want to participate in "endgame" as opposed to playing fun ones because nobody is going to bother with your "stupid gimmick build" in a party.

Balance is irrelevant to it all. People will almost always migrate towards the meta, while a small amount of players will stay fast to what interests them. In time they get re-balanced and people move. There's always going to be a best build, especially when you have fuckers theory crafting for hours.

>>384553916
doesn't it honestly depress you guys how completely and utterly nonredeemable blizzard is now. Ever since diablo 2 and starcraft I was instantly in love with everything about this company. Warcraft 3 was great and the customs games were a blast. And then we got to see the age of World of Warcraft which overall was fun even though it did bring the downfall of mmos. Now all the talent that made this company great is long gone but the fans still grovel begging for any scraps they can get. It so fucking depressing it hurts.

>>384553916
>giving a fuck about this shitty rehash of DIABLO game just the title
Just let it go and if you are new to Diablo games eat the shit your overlords of Blizzard makes, like a good pet.

>>384556089
Do you even play? There are full support builds for certain classes that are welcome in parties. Just don't build like a retard and you can hang with people online.

>I can't build however I want wahhh!
Welcome to literally every online game.

>>384555931
Maybe it does not, but at least you have build diversity. You can take any idea you have and there is a pretty big chance you can turn it into a semi-viable/viable build. D3 shoehorns you into specific builds via legendaries...

>>384556037
PvP boner was GOAT
ww/trap sin will always have my heart tho.

>>384556089
Dunno about you guys, but I always played Diablo solo. D2 and D3 both. And never really made it to super endgame content in either game, despite putting many hours into them. Maybe D3 has just much faster progress, or you guys have much more free time to spend on gear treadmill games than I do, but viability of my build as the other people see it, was never a concern for me. Only how I myself enjoy the performance of my build.

>cant buy JUST the DLC on the ps3 store
>have to buy the entire game

thats why ill always have just the base game

>playing d3 in 2017
>buying necro set for 15 bucks
>not feeling like a complete moron

everyone who bought for the necro set should just off themselves. fucking degenerates

>>384556074
>anymore
That's the point, you can cut out a tumor but when it has already spread it doesn't make much difference.

>>384556186

Games didn't change, your taste did. You did. You need to self reflect, you are the reason you are depressed by it.

>I dont like something so its shit for everyone.

The essence of /v/.

>implying Diablo 2 Necro wasn't strongest in non-pet-focused builds

>>384556186
You're dramatic and nostalgic. Not saying they're infallible but they can still turn a trash release into an enjoyable game.

BroodWar had game breaking mechanics and bugs until multiple patches later where it finally became a sensation. It wasn't always as polished as it was.

>>384556328
I'm having a blast with it.

can you reset enchantments? I accidentally enchanted the thowns attribute in one of my set pieces, but I didn't realize it can only become another shit stat...

>>384556254
And there are enough legendaries and sets to offer bonuses for every kind of build to support the diversity. I don't see what exactly you're complaining about. If one particular playstyle gets a slightly more powerful bonuses from the items, it doesn't necessarily make all the other builds obsolete, because they still do have itemization options tailored specifically for those builds. If you decide not to use them because they're "not viable" anymore compared to the most powerful build, it's your own choice.

>>384556448
no

>>384556237
>Do you even play?
Not anymore, the game stopped being fun.

>Welcome to literally every online game.
Its a fucking single player RPG with party functionality without any kind of PvP competitive features. There is absolutely zero reason why I should not be able to build my char around a spell I like instead of a spell that has been made mandatory.

>>384555978
prove it. detail it out why don't you.

We want a skeleton army and curse shit
>Lol ok but you have to spam mage so no cursing

>>384556448
I think they added an option to completely reroll an item. Although I dunno if it's true or how it's done, since I haven't played this game for the longest time. But you cannot just cancel an enchantment, no.

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>>384553916
Is this the Grim Dawn thread?

>>384556385
What title has blizzard released lately that you like? Legion? Overwatch?

Why pay 15$ for a necromancer that has very limited options...
when you can play necromancer melee or necromancer spellcaster or necromancer support or necromancer boss killer or necromancer area clearer or necromancer curser or necromancer dual totem or necromancer triple totem or necromancer summoner or necromancer poison specialist or necromancer archer or necromancer whatever

>FOR FREE In path of exile?

>>384556496
??? You CAN build however you like, but it was always going to be determined by item stats.

>Want a spoopy skellington build
>Build an armory of legs
>Does this item have +skellington damage?
>Oh this leg makes my skellingtons dance thriller before exploding

Choose your build, look for the stats the compliment it, go run shit. If youre playing this single player then you have zero reason to complain, there are so many options.

>I can't build like a retard and win!
Like I said. Literally. Every. Game. Ever.

>going to end up playing the new season in this shit game because I don't want to play PoE again until the expac hits
fucking hurry up GGG

>>384556831
4. august

>>384555695
the whole set system is so bad in itself, skill deals 1000% more dmg with x skill shit needs to go.

Play with this skill the devs put ridiculous buffs on this set or gtfo, fucking retarded devs

>>384556831
What do German Goo Girls have to do with Pillars of Eternity?

>>384556723
I tried, but every boss after Act 2 raises the same problem as Duriel: your adds will die like flies and then it's you versus the boss. Act 4 in particular was a fucking nightmare

>>384556328
lol just get it for free with wow gold nerd

>>384556298
this would be viable if sets didn't give "X skill now deals 40,000% damage"

Even in a solo environment, ignoring the meta, any sort of player interaction, I can't ignore a green item that makes my skills deal 40 times more damage, and instead just use something else because "it's fun", and locks my 4 or 5 torment levels behind a build that uses a predetermined set.

LoN builds seem to be a step in the right direction, it doesn't invalidate the fuck ups, but it does provide more player tweaking and you gimping yourself with some non meta skill/passive/legendary is still pretty enjoyable, you might miss a few GR levels but that's not going to kill your boner, but dealing 40 times less damage because I'm not using a set does kill my boner inmensely.

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>>384556935

>>384556831
I would play PoE if it didn't feel like clunky garbage

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>>384556594
>>384556645
My boys.

REAL NIGGA ROLL CALL

>>384556723
I hate summoners in PoE, all I wanted was a comfy caster that walks around picking loot while the undead army takes cary of everything else, instead I end up micro managing and refueling all my shit every 3 seconds because everything dies, specially the fucking specters which are the strongest summon and you have to backtrack to where the strong specters are (at least when I last played)

>>384553916

Any of the Necro sets clears endgame content just fine

Its just one particular unbalanced build thats pushing ungodly stupid shit like GR 115

>>384555275
Its not even the best necro build. Necro is the strongest class by a huge margin right now so I dont really know what the problem is. It can do high grifts with almost any build.

>>384556919
>this

also
>no skill tree
>no endgame bosses
>no actual endgame content other than higher numbers
>legendary items overshadowing rare items
>remove soulbound
>add an ah
>remove gold
>remove most if not all the multipliers except if theres a downside

ofc this is blizzard 2017, this is unrealistic things to do, better release a cinematic with a character for 15$ because fuck you all

>>384555751

>PoE balanced
>what is life builds
>what is melee
>what was poison

I love PoE, but cmon man.

>>384557036
>using comma as a thousands separator instead of decimal
>using thousands separator at all

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Hey boys, I'm a sad boy who's been playing Diablo 3 regularly since release. I have over 3000 hours across multiple characters, and am here to give my worthless 2 cents.

The Necromancer is literally pay2win, it's already clearing insanely high GRifts, far higher than anyone has ever gone before, and none of the builds are that optimized. They've basically said pay $15 and play this broken and overpowered new class or fuck off because you filthy "F2P" players (Who paid $59.99 for the game) are completely unable to compete in any leaderboards now.

They even went all out and released a statement saying there will be no balance patches for Season 11, they didn't even need to say such a thing, they're just aggro'ing their own playerbase for whatever reason (Probably to drive away more players from this old relic to make Diablo 4 more enticing.)

Blizzard have basically put the final nail in the coffin for Diablo, or at least that would be the case if it wasn't dead already, Diablo doesn't even appear on the blizzard homepage lineup in the scroll of all their games, there's just a big conspicuous empty spot where they removed it. (Seriously, pic related.)

More specifically for people who really care, Blizzard have recently taken to ignoring hackers and exploiters, the most egregious modern example would be when a large amount of players used a glitch to max level their gems (Something that would be extremely time/resource intensive and basically impossible to do even once.) and gain paragon levels far in excess of 5000.

Blizzard responded to this by not banning a single player, letting the exploiters keep their maximum levelled gems and not touching the scoreboards, which are now totally ruined with a bunch of chinese symbol names who all have exploited paragon levels that will take any legit player literally decades to reach.

Diablo 3 could've been good, but Blizzard actively seem to despise it, and want to kill it.

>>384555217
>be locked onto certain skills by putting points on them
>devs are now forced to balance those abilities so they are neither overpowered or underpowered
>have all abilities all the time
>devs don't have to balance shit because you can just change your build at will.

>>384557459
Not only everything you said doesn't prove how D2 skill tree system was better than D3. But it's also false.
D2 had respec for a long time now. The synergy system didn't balance the low level abilities. If anything, it made the most used abilities even more overpowered by adding more passive bonuses to them.

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>>384555751
>PoE does it reasonably well

A lot of skills in PoE are dead on arrival because they namelock. The rest of them are dead on arrival because they lack the damage. The few remaining viable skills are usually very recent and very overtuned, dealing more damage than other skills with the same build and literally just 1 gem swap.

Chris Niggerson also refuses to buff old skills because
>hurr hurr durrrrrr u get moor players by releasing SHINY NEW THINGS not reworking old things! XD
and then we get a skill graveyard of shit like glacial hammer and regular(non-vaal) fireball

even worse when an old skill like Viperstrike does very well in a niche of boss killing and those fucking retarded kiwis nerf it anyways

GGG is incompetent.

>>384557458
Additionally I have to say that build diversity is totally fucked due to Blizzards reliance on set bonuses, for each class there is now quite literally a SINGLE set, and all of them have insane bonuses like, and this is a real example, 45,000% weapon damage when 6 pieces are worn.

There is no meta, no competitiveness to this game any more, the class that dominates the scoreboard is whatever class recently got given a new set, because each set MUST be more powerful than the previous meta set because otherwise no one would ever use it.

The entire problem really revolves around the fact that to get a set bonus, you have to wear SIX pieces of that armour set, leaving you two rings and an amulet to make your 'personal build'.

Oh but forget actually doing that because 95% of rings and amulets are literal junk with either no effect or garbage gimmick effects like "A goblin follows you around." compared to the obvious meta two rings and an amulet which of course give massive damage buffs in the tens of thousands of percents.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to type all this crap out into the void, Diablo 3 is just so bizarre with the way Blizzard seems to be ACTIVELY trying to kill the game. Everything they do is to its detriment, they constantly make the most horrific decisions, obvious gaffes that anyone could realise were going to fuck the game up at a glance, why they have such a huge vendetta against this game is beyond me. It must be purposeful, in my mind, it simply must be, no company this large with this amazing of a gaming heritage would make so many consecutive terrible decisions.

The worst part is that because Diablo 3 is so dead nowadays (At the end of last season getting GR40 put you at position 800, literally 800 players are still active in a game with 30 MILLION sales) no one ever talks about the pure insanity that's occurring within this game, the most broken meta comparable to the cheapest chinese knock-off pho

>>384555137
>42
hahahaha oh dear

>>384555998
What I meant is that an utterly sub-optimal build that does 100dps fighting the lowest difficulty enemy with 1000 health plays out identically to min/maxed variant with 1000000000dps fighting an enemy with 10000000000 health.

Consequently, since the difficulty is endless (increased difficulty doesn't provide new content or higher challenge - it's just compensation for ever increasing numbers), there's no tangible goal or reference point for you to set besides ones in relation to other players or what's physically possible, and in both cases we come down to the few min/max builds (and with item and set bonuses providing tens of thousands of percents increased damage, the number of builds that can even imagine reaching a relative parity are very restricted). Hell, even if you wanted to push as far as you can with a sub-optimal build xyz, your best bet to do so would be to use min/maxed farming builds as difference between builds is so absurd (many orders of magnitude) that you gain power ten times faster with other builds than the one you are looking to push with.

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>>384557796
>I don't even know why I'm bothering to type all this crap out into the void

>>384557718
I'm not talking about D2, I'm talking about the whole "all abilities available" vs "create a build".

The fact that abilities on D2 were poorly balanced means nothing when there are piles upon piles of games that prove how permanent decisions increase the build variety.

>>384557796
>>384557458

tl;dr

>>384557458
>f2p
>p2w
>leaderboards
>in a PvE game
>with no rewards
Literally who cares?

>>384557768
Nigga, fireball is great and glacial hammer is ultimate jew meme with threshold jewels. I am not saying the game is perfectly balanced, fuck clear speed strand, but your complaints are retarded.

>>384554353
Some variations of rath work at 105+ GR too. Albeit they're not as effective.

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>>384557458
>Diablo doesn't even appear on the blizzard homepage lineup in the scroll of all their games, there's just a big conspicuous empty spot where they removed it.

jesus christ what the fuck why

>>384558030
>fireball is great

its not even good with rolling flames anymore

>glacial hammer is the ultimate meme jew

haha yeah taking 20 minutes to clear a map for a few more blue items is so EPIC haha XD

kys

>>384557796
I'm saving this post because it's what I've been saying for years and I'm tired of typing the same stuff again and again.

>>384558017
>Literally who cares?
What's the point of the game if you can't push leaderboards, that's literally the entire reason and goal of playing Diablo 3, that's the only progression available. What else do you think the game is for? Endlessly grinding the same loot in a vacuum? Why do you think they place so much importance on the score ladders and pushing for higher greater rifts.

>>384557458

Psst.

Every single moba does the same thing with new champions/heroes

its almost like they want you to buy it :DDDDDD

>>384557960
Leveling and gearing up a new duplicate character just to try a different build is just tedious and not fun by any means. I hope you're not arguing about that.
And permanent decisions have to do jack shit with the build variety. Balance does.

Why are PoE fags so insecure?

>>384558040
Because they're replacing it with World of Diablo VR

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>>384557458
>now in wake of its dismantling, global conflict is rising. Overwatch may be gone...but the world still needs heroes

hold the fuck up

I thought the whole point of the game was that Winston was remaking Overwatch

did that chink nigger cunt fuck Chu actually decide to drop the fucking idea so he could do lesbian faggotry and old people love triangles

>>384557923
Keep at it anon. I enjoyed reading your blog.

>>384557293

While i agree with you i cleared shaper with multiple meele, life, no-poison builds.

The thing with PoE is: Some things are clearly better than other things BUT you can clear endgame content with almost every dumbshit skill as long as you build around the skill good enough. Can't say the same about D3.

>>384558176
Funnily enough, doesnt happen with Heroes of the Storm

>>384558146
>Endlessly grinding the same loot in a vacuum?
Pretty much, yes. Just a timesink, popping monster, with occasional thrill of picking up legendaries and set items.
You shouldn't take it as a "competitive" game. It's about having fun, and clearly you're not having fun with your mentality. Maybe you should just try and change it.

>>384558176
How many people have even fucking bought the Necromancer pack, like I said in my autistic paragraph posts, literally 800 players ranked GR40 or higher in the last season. (Getting to GR40 requires ~4 hours of playing). 800 People in the entire world are dedicated enough to Diablo 3 to get a basic set of gear and run a single GRift dungeon. What a stupid and pointless thing to do to annihilate the entire meta of a game that barely anyone plays to make like, $150 when they're making billions everywhere else.

It's why I solidly believe that Blizzard is actively trying to kill Diablo 3, they pushed away the ONLY thing that was holding their tiny playerbase on, the meta.

>>384558040
if you check the page yourself theres a whole other section with the rest of their released stuff and d3 is there, of course the bait post conveniently left that out

I honestly have not seen one game get Necromancer right. Even D2 was pretty subpar.

>>384558309
> doesnt happen with Heroes of the Storm

BULLSHIT. I played around the time that templar shield girl was released. She fucking cleared whole teams on her own. Kys.

>>384558310
>Pretty much, yes. Just a timesink, popping monster, with occasional thrill of picking up legendaries and set items.
Have you even played Diablo 3?

>>384555217

Because D2 builds required thought and experimentation, and punished you for making poor choices.

>>384558179
>just to try a different build is just tedious
Looks like you never played a rpg before, different builds for the same class can play so wildly different that it feels like you're playing a different class. It is fun.

Point being, both Torchlight and Ragnarok have more build variety than D3, both are more fun to play and both have permanent decisions.

Making decisions permanent forces developers to think of each ability as a viable choice to be picked.

>>384558176
>>384558371
youd think blizz would be above that

>>384558105
>jump to the pack
>oneshot it with bonus aoe/abyssal
>jump to next pack
>20 minutes
you suck lad

>>384558343
Anon, look at the hero release by order and see the majority are released undertuned. They got get flack from the community about it.

>>384558437
>D2 builds required thought and experimentation
Oh, you sweet naive child.

>>384558309
untrue, new heroes released are stronger than the recently released hero and then they buff older heroes since its been while they had a buff and overtime, the average damage hits have increased by almost 80% 2 years ago, people would never be able to make hits higher than 800 unless really really high level

>new hero released stronger than all other heroes
>buff older heroes
>ignore heroes inbetween
>nerf grandmaster meta hero abilities
>repeat

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>>384558258
Name a melee namelock skill that requires melee splash to function that can also kill shaper on a budget of less than about 20 exalted orbs.

You fucking can't because your chris niggerson argument of "ANY SKILL IS VIABLE" is reliant on the convenient fact that any skill can work with perfect, near unobtainable for 99.9999999% of the playerbase gear.

For the rest of them, its pizza totems and whatever the latest broken skill gem is. Iron Commander? Fuck off with that shit. Minions other than SRS? Hope you like bad AI and slow clearspeed. Any DoT based build that isn't even utilizing double dipping? Lmao dead in 3.0

Corpse explosion? No. Infernal blow? Fat chance. Freeze pulse? Why aren't you using Frost Bolt? The list goes on.

>>384558310
>thrill of picking up legendaries and set items.
you clearly haven't played in a long ass time, you get literally hundreds of legendaries an hour on a fresh new character now, the ladders are the only thing left to do in diablo. it IS a competitive game

>>384558309
Except it happens all the time, just look at how both D.va and Lucio got nerfed.

>>384558179
>Leveling and gearing up a new duplicate character just to try a different build is just tedious and not fun by any means

No it isn't, it's literally where the fun of the game lies. If all builds are available to you, then what's the point of ever replaying the game?

If you disagree, then explain to me why you don't think levelling and gearing a new class to try it out is tedious and not fun

>>384558437
>Making poor choices
Like not following the best cookie cutter build.

>>384557218
Its just shows how inexperienced you are with summoner class.
But if you want that passive gameplay that bad try golemancers or baron zombies, raise that shit once - never touch them again

>>384557796
>95% of rings and amulets are literal junk with either no effect or garbage gimmick effects like "A goblin follows you around."

This is the part that pisses me off the most, I'm not against situational items, I'm not against "light hearted" itemization, but who in the right mind puts shit like CoE and Manalheald in the same pool as the other 50 garbage rings? Sometimes I feel like they don't even play their own game.

>>384558571

not an argument

>>384558310
>the thrill of picking up a leg that doesn't boost one of the abilities of a set meaning it will be turned into mats.
Oh boy so exciting.

>>384558609
Why are you even arguing in favour of the objectively shittier game, I'm the autist with 3000 hours in Diablo and even trying to say that PoE is somehow worse is fucking stupid, PoE's build and spell diversity might not be perfect, but it's multiple orders of magnitude better than Diablo where there is no build diversity.

>>384558437
you remind me of the people that say diablo 2 was the best game ever, but i dont see you or anyone else playing diablo 2 right now or recently...

>>384558630

There will always be a best cookie cutter build in anything, including Diablo 3.

http://www.diablofans.com/builds/90975-rathma-god-gr-100-solo-s11

I'm having fun with this build. Blood lance builds are boring as heck waiting on LofD cooldown

>>384558646
Summoners are garbage bud. Even SRS is fucked now because they have a 60% chance to hit white mobs in red maps. Zombies either straight up die or don't attack anything.

>>384558736
>but i dont see you or anyone else playing diablo 2 right now or recently...

How would you see them playing it if you don't also play the game?

>>384558361
How do you "get Necromancer right", anon?

>>384558615
Some are over, some are under but those heroes aren't running rampant in competitive because they're dumb op. It isn't an argument that blizz wants you to buy x hero on release, it's an argument that they rarely get a hero perfectly balanced first try.

>>384558437
Punishment for making a choice in a system thats about choice is retarded. That's why they patched in respecing later because they realized that was always retarded.

D2 is better than D3 but Its far from faultless.

>>384557796
>>384558682
CoE, Manald Heal, RoRG are the only three rings in the ENTIRE diablo 3 meta, out of a pool of 65 rings, only three are actually useful.

That's FUCKED.

>>384558751
Exactly. D2 was more punishing until they allowed for respeccing. Then it's just like D3 with extra steps.

>>384558851
>Punishment for making a choice in a system thats about choice is retarded.

No it isn't. If you don't get punished for making a wrong choice in a game, then you're not playing a game at all. It's not a game if it doesn't have rules, you fucking retard.

>>384558621
>it's literally where the fun of the game lies
In some games, maybe. But not in this one, because it's so focused on endgame.
>why you don't think levelling and gearing a new class
Because a different class is different. What else is there to explain?

Imagine starting a new save file in Monster Hunter because you just wanted to use a different weapon class.
Permanently locking you out of the options you should have is not fun. You're being coerced by the game into thinking it adds more value to it.

>>384553916
I'm really surprised that /v/ can't pay for 15 bucks

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>>384558705
>It's multiple orders of magnitudes better than D3

You are legitimately retarded if you believe this. I've done end game content in both games, shaper and 100+ GRs, and the only difference between the games now, at this point in time, is that PoE gives you the illusion of choice until a threshold is passed, and D3 tells you straight to your face that you have no options.

But by all means, we can talk about how mandatory unique flasks and more multipliers are if you want to honestly debate me about how much "choice" you really have in PoE's ladder.

Hint: you won't win

>>384558502
not worth explaining to him, he is one of these degenerates who only plays what their favorite streamer do and think meta above everything else

>>384557458
>>384557796
Damn, sad state of affairs.

The state of Blizzard man, it just depresses me.

>>384558953
I honestly don't know why you're bothering with this, Blizzard won't pay you for defending them to strangers on the internet.

It's a pretty objective fact that PoE has more build diversity than D3, due to the fact that PoE has build diversity at all, and D3 doesn't.

Also
>Hint: you won't win
And I thought I was autistic

>>384558818
>hots
>competitive
You don't judge how good or bad or viable a character is by just looking at the competitive scene.

>>384558946
>But not in this one, because it's so focused on endgame.

Diablo 2 isn't focused on endgame.

>Because a different class is different

So is a different build. Are you retarded?

>>384558502
>bonus AoE
>after the AoE nerfs

someone here doesn't use path of building

>>384558851
blizzard south patched respecs in and its still a lot better then just changing whenever you want. it actually costs an item once you have used up the 3 den of quest respecs

>>384558851
>That's why they patched in respecing later because they realized that was always retarded.

You don't get infinite respecs though.

>>384555217
>>384558437
I think the greater difference is in the context and not the character customization system itself. Even if I wanted to play some more unorthodox build, like leap Barbarian, there are tangible goals for me to aim at (beating Nightmare and Hell) that are tough but not outright undoable. In addition, while a min/max build like hammerdin is obviously far more potent, in the end numbers are still at least comparable.

Conversely, Diablo 3 doesn't have any tangible goals other than how far you can push greater rifts in relation to other players, and one build can be a hundred thousand times more powerful than the other.

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>>384558953
>Hint: you won't win

>>384558326
Are you near the top of the scoreboard? At least below the people that boinked there way up there.

I feel like Necro is the strongest character ive played already because it has everything it needs solely in the skills.
Everything works together too well compared to the old classes but i think that is because this is new content that theyve worked on after getting better through time.
One big balancing patch could save everything, it sounds like. Or add runewords.
Whipe the scoreboard of those bogus scores too.
I can see a reason for almost everything youve said but d2 was a bit like that on the surface too. Hdin felt like the best runner at first. Im sure sorc was faster or maybe zon if you could reduce the loss of time from mobility issues to the effect of a lack of fcr.
Im holding out hope that people arent finding enough bullshit factors in more untouched builds.

>>384559024
The hilarious part here is you think by telling everyone about how garbage PoE really is that i'm also signalling that D3 is great.

They both have problems, D3 moreso when it comes to endgame because it HAS no endgame, but you using autistic hyperbole to spout that "PoE HAS LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF QUINTILLIONS OF BUILD OPTIONS LITERALLY IT'S MAGNATUDELY MATHAMATICALLY HUGELY BIGLY MORE OPTIONS!!!!!!" makes me think you're nothing but a chriswilsondrone too busy slurping kiwi cum up to realize that PoE isn't half as diverse as you think it is.

Kys.

>>384559064
Are you retarded?
Different build on the same character does not pass the criteria of originality.
By your logic the perfect game would only allow you to use a single skill in a single playthrough, because it would inflate the number of possible builds.

>>384553916
The entire game is a fucking joke, just stop playing. Literally stop. fucking. playing. and maybe they'll stop making shitty, half-assed fucking video games and learn a lesson for once.
But no, half of you will log back on tomorrow for more shitty content and then bitch about it. Also you clearly fucking bought the dlc, you don't get to whine about your purchase now. You KNEW it was a stupid fucking idea to buy it and you did it anyways. You're the problem as much as the devs.

>>384553916
Modern blizzard exists because they're good at two things: mass marketing appeal and also riding on the wave of nostalgia from early in the gaming markets life. That's it. Not one of their modern products could be considered to be good beyond visual polish, but that's obviously debatable.

I would honestly question whether even old blizzard would have held up in the modern market for the simple fact is they never really had much in the way of competition. They would be nothing today if it weren't for their old franchises getting a foot in the door so to speak.

im going to have fun in the new season with necro tomorrow

i hope you have fun playing whatever youre going to play too

>>384559263
>Different build on the same character does not pass the criteria of originality.

Yeah, not in Diablo 3, because it's a shit game. But in good RPGs, like Diablo 2, it certainly does. Do you think a hammerdin plays anything like a smiter? lol

>>384559129
>Conversely, Diablo 3 doesn't have any tangible goals other than how far you can push greater rifts in relation to other players, and one build can be a hundred thousand times more powerful than the other.

1000 times this, it's something people who haven't played more than a couple hours of D3 can't understand.

Diablo 3 quite literally runs out of content after a handful of hours, there is no more grinding, no more excitement to be gained from yet another legendary drop you've had thousands of times before. You can farm the ultimate unstoppable build that makes T13 a complete joke within a couple hours of starting a fresh new character.

The entire game consists of pushing the ladders, that's the ONLY thing people do in it, which is why it's fucking retarded to release a $15 character who can jump from GR113 (the previous highest GRift reached after years of pushing and balancing builds, increasing by maybe a single rift level a month) to GR117 within a week of release, with builds that aren't even half optimised.

It's like if they released a new Overwatch character who had a hard counter for every other character available, the meta is irreparably broken and the game isn't fun any more because everyone who wants to be competitive just uses the new $15 pay2win char.

>>384559237
rhykker mentality you got there... if you actually still think diablo 3 is great and is challenging, then i dont see any reason why i want you to play path of exile because its obviously not for casual scrubs like you...

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>>384559237
>PoE HAS LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF QUINTILLIONS OF BUILD OPTIONS LITERALLY IT'S MAGNATUDELY MATHAMATICALLY HUGELY BIGLY MORE OPTIONS!!!!!!
> chriswilsondrone too busy slurping kiwi cum up to realize that PoE isn't half as diverse as you think it is.

Holy shit the cringe.

>>384559046
It sets a golden standard to follow when the hero is used correctly, Æ with a team who knows what they're doing.

>>384559371
>B-But Diablo 3 is shit, s-so it doesn't count
Not an argument.
And both hammerdin and smiter are the same character. You've leveled it up, collected the gear. There's absolutely no reason why you should be locked out from using its skills.
It's sickening to see someone defending this atrocious design paradigm. If anything, you could've suggest to not make a respec option free like it is in D3. But outright having the player waste their actual lifetime by leveling the same character again is inexcusable.

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>>384559513

>>384559507
I think he doesn't like either game, anon?

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>>384559159
I used to push for high GRift scores, and I'm paragon ranked in the mid 3000's, which took a fucking LONG time, and a LOT of grinding to get.

Which is why I'm fucking pissed that Blizzard outright refuses to punish or revoke the exploiters and hackers who are flagrantly taking over the scoreboard, it's not even a public secret, it's just a known fact that they even comment on, if only to say they're taking "specific action towards each player and will not discuss it with anyone." Meanwhilst every single ladder is completely dominated by an endless scroll of chinese/korean hackers.

What kind of state is this game in, one of the highest selling games of all time, up there with Tetris and Mario, where the global ladder looks like a F2P chinese mobile knock-off game?

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>>384559507
>PoE is too hard

heh....pretty good....but can you handle my ultimate technique?

>goes pathfinder
>slots blade vortex
>kills shaper

>>384559615
>And both hammerdin and smiter are the same character.

Not in the least.

>You've leveled it up, collected the gear.

Different gear for different builds.

>There's absolutely no reason why you should be locked out from using its skills.
>There's absolutely no reason why you should be locked out from using another classes' skills

This is how retarded you sound

> But outright having the player waste their actual lifetime

If you think playing a game is wasting your time, maybe you should go play something you actually enjoy. The point of playing a game is to enjoy it, not try and power through it to get to the end.

>>384559598
>golden standard
Which shouldn't exist, the problem of D3 build variety is exactly that, a golden standard pre picked by the developers in the form of sets.

On mobas it's even more important giving a character more than one viable build.

>>384559371
>uliana plays like gen
>invoker plays like hammerdin
>bats plays like swarm
>maradeur plays like dagger imaple
>and so on
>and so on
Jesus christ, just end yourself and this shitposting already.

>>384559874

I have no idea what point you're trying to make

>>384559874
I didn't want to chime in on this because I was sperging out about muh D3, but you do realize you're the one shitposting right?

You're basically constructing really shit strawmen by saying shit like "PoE HAS LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF QUINTILLIONS OF BUILD OPTIONS LITERALLY IT'S MAGNATUDELY MATHAMATICALLY HUGELY BIGLY MORE OPTIONS!!!!!!" to try and make your 'opponent' look stupid, but you've forgotten that doing that stopped working when you turned 10.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to accomplish with all this, no one is going to pay you for shilling their product or starting arguments on the internet, don't you have something better to do?

>>384559507
i hate to break it to your sub-merciless softcore mind but as long as vaal pact exists the game will never be hard.

>>384559843
>Different gear for different builds.
Exactly. You can get lucky with the absolute best gear for one build, but you're already locked into the other, so it's all wasted.
>another class is the same class
This is how retarded you sound.
>The point of playing a game is to enjoy it
Again, this is correct. And wasting time powering through the game, leveling the same class just to use a different spec is not enjoyable. That's the entire point.

>>384560000
>I'm also not sure what you're trying to accomplish with all this, no one is going to pay you for shilling their product or starting arguments on the internet, don't you have something better to do?

I like how you spend all your time being dismissive because you realized you have no argument.

>>384559781
the road to kill shaper even with pathfinder meta skill still takes atleast 10 times longer than getting a full set in diablo 3 and clear 50+ GR

>>384559949
>Different build on the same character does not pass the criteria of originality in D3
When it clearly does, because every class in D3 has builds that plays completely different.

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>>384560124

>>384560149
so instead of doing greater rifts for 5 hours i do shaped strands for 50?

yes this sounds much better

>>384560059
>so it's all wasted.
No, because you can just trade with other people.
>another class is the same class
Tell me why you think the boundary between class and build is anything but arbitrary?
>And wasting time powering through the game, leveling the same class just to use a different spec is not enjoyable. That's the entire point.
Except you're not powering through it to use a different spec, using the different spec is part of the journey. You say "levelling the same class" as though playing it in a completely different way doesn't matter, it's still somehow "the same". Why? Because it's called "Paladin"? You get hung up on the name? Is that your problem?

>>384560275
you got the option to choose other maps, ofc ur simple mind can only hand 1 way maps but diablo 3 offers only 1 option and not 127 options...

>>384560154

Tell that to the guy I quoted then

>>384560420
>other maps

that have cancerous layouts and enemy variety

so they end up being LESS fun than stranding despite the sickening feeling you get when you run it for 8 hours straight

>>384560275
Dude you're fucking retarded, you have this air of smugness about you where everyone has a 'non-argument' 'you have no argument' but you're actually just a dumbass who's spouting complete shit and is too stupid to realize it.

Like they say, incompetent people think they're competent BECAUSE they're incompetent. In the same vein, you feel like you're making good arguments and everyone else looks stupid BECAUSE you're stupid.

Or you're a troll/shitposter, but I don't really care at this point, I'm mostly just posting because I love Diablo :C

>>384560154
>D3 has builds

You're not really building anything if you can just change it at will

>>384560154
Yeah but those are pre-selected builds the literal meaning of cookie-cutter.

>>384560529
>you're not making you sandwich if you can change salad at will
Here's your food analogy.

>>384560504
First off you didn't even respond to me. Second off, I find it astonishing how you can spend so much time typing and ultimately come up with a post that has literally 0 arguments despite still having a point to prove. Stay mad.

>>384560154
>Every class in D3 has builds that plays completely different

What the fuck D3 have you been playing for the last several years? Every class has a SINGLE build that works at top difficulty, and every other 'build' is just using the different (completely worthless) skills that aren't strong enough to clear the default game.

The entire problem with D3 to begin with is that every class only has a single viable build, so why are you even bothering trying to argue like there is? 30 Million ex-diablo players disagree with you.

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>>384560631

yeah cool

This thread has devolved into trolls trolling trolls, you're all retarded.

Saged

>>384560367
>you can just trade
I don't want to trade with other people. I want to use the items I found on the character I made and leveled up, but I'm unfairly locked out of it. That's a bad design.
>the boundary between class and build is anything but arbitrary
Because it IS anything but arbitrary. There's a clear division between classes. While all class builds belong to the same character. How hard is it to understand?
>using the different spec is part of the journey
"The journey"? Are you for real?
Anyway, you're not using the different spec when leveling up anew, because it's not complete. A spec is most likely to revolve around high level skills, and you won't have access to them a new character. Despite that you have already spent time leveling the same class. That's the issue.

d3 is a lost cause guys theres no point in arguing with the d3 fans. they like their cancer let them have it. its been 5 years now and if you knew better you would know the game was never going to be redeemable. outside of interesting d2 features like hostile, interesting and good pvp, skill talents stats and everything else there is, d3 to its core is just not good. its just plain old boring and a slog to get through. I mean even at the most basic things diablo 3 was so terrible let alone the more complex mechanics and systems in place. its time we let this game go

>>384557458
>>384557796
holy shit i feel bad for you

>>384560504
He isn't wrong, though. If grinding in a game isn't fun or there's only one fun option it ultimately ends up being repetitive and unfun. Might be less shit than D3 but it ain't good either.

>>384560478
and this is where GGG could do some work,
>make 1 line maps give less iterms/xp
>nerf overall items dropped on all endgame content
>buff enemy hp on all endgame content
>buff enemy damage on all endgame content
>and remove all movement skills

but GGG already fell into the money trap of the casuals which means the game will only become more and more casual as the console release gets closer.

>>384553916
>people paid $15 for a class

This is turbo jew, why did you guys even give them your money.

>>384560870
Don't, I was just letting off some steam about one of my favourite games which I've had to watch be slowly dismantled and destroyed by its creators. I'm still gonna be playing Season 11 today and I'll at least max a few characters.

>>384558682
They do, they specifically do this to inflate the number of items in a specific leg pool so it takes longer for you to get the items you want.

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>>384560635
dumbass do you even realize that you just confirmed what he said?

>>384557796
>>384558682
>>384558910
>>384560963
They could've at least tried a little considering how much time and money was put into developing this game. I can't stress enough how every build in the game consists of the same few insanely powerful rings and amulet, and the ENTIRE rest of the item pool is just pure junk, not a single redeemable item or even fun gimmick, just the most useless asinine crap that was blatantly made up on the spot by some poor intern.

>>384560986
He didn't though, the other guy is just typing "ur dumdum" in an extremely long and retarded way. I expected a food analogy in the middle of that.

>>384561092
> the other guy is just typing "ur dumdum"

> "PoE HAS LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF QUINTILLIONS OF BUILD OPTIONS LITERALLY IT'S MAGNATUDELY MATHAMATICALLY HUGELY BIGLY MORE OPTIONS!!!!!!"

Do you consider this a strong argument? Oh wait you're obviously that guy just samefagging, whoops. I really should stop replying to you but your endless repetition of "You have no argument, heh, got you kiddo, you just played a logical battle of wits as if it were checkers against a master of 4-dimensional chess. *tips*" is kind of entertaining in a way.

The way I know OP is a shotty retarded troll is because he still thinks Bone Armor build is the best foe GRIFTS when other builds now sim higher.

Also theres a couple pet builds that can push 100+, theres one with the blood set where you have an army of skeleton mages and warriors.

Also most players outside of the small slice who diablo 24/7 dont care about being top of the leaderboards, pretty sure every build can do 80-90 which is more than enough for the majority

Am I getting trolled here? Is this just another shotty thread by that anti D3 thread spammer?

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>>384553916
this is what diablo 3 reminds me of. should've been left it to die but they kept it around because they can't admit it was a complete failure

>>384561204
this is just a greentext, the argument is that neither D3 or PoE are good games even if PoE is slightly less shit.

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>>384560635
>"D3 has no build diversity."
>NEITHER DOES POE
>"PoE atleast has SOME diversity."
>NO IT DOESNT
>"Yes it does, here, look at all these builds.
>YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING POE HAS TRILLIONS OF QUINTILLIONS OF BUILD OPTIONS?
>"No, you said that it had none, and here I am showing you that it ha-"
>YOU HAVE LITERALLY 0 ARGUMENTS, STAY MAD

>>384560649
What builds players used last time I played, all viable at the same time, all could be found at the top of the ladder:

Crusader: Invoker and LoN Bombardement.
Monk: Genmonk and Inna EP.
WD: Zunimassa and LoN Firebats
DH: Unhallowed and LoN Strafe
Wiz: Vyr'Rasha and Firebird

Can't remember what Barbs had. Every class had 2 build, some of them like monks or DHs plays nothing alike.

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>>384561387

>>384561415
Yo, 3000 hours autist here, none of those builds have been GR viable for a very long time. Firebird hasn't been GR pushing for months now, LoN is not a part of the meta any more, the highest GRifts are all achieved by Archon/Hydra wizard builds.

Though I suppose technically the top 5 highest GRifts are all necromancers now.

Why would you buy 15e meme shilling le epic skelemancer ACTIVISION TM DLC, when you can just buy grim dawn expack when it comes out and get shitloads of content (feat: necro/inkvishitlord) for a game that is actually good?

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>>384561387
>The mentality of the average Diablo 3 fanboy
literally just watch the Rhykker video about poe and you will see how blind diablo 3 fanboys are and that they will say anything to make their game look better, even if it requires going down on their knee to suck a few off

>>384561530
That's why I said "last time I played", it was 2.4.something iirc.

>>384560649

>Every class has one viable build

I think youre confusing "top build" with "viable".

Of coursw if you wanna crunch numbers and do math the players who want to top leaderboards will go with the "top" build, sometimes theres even 2 top builds.

But if you think every set in the game cant clear ~80-85 GRIFT, which iirc is beyond Torment XIII, that is just plain wrong with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 cases because Im pretty sure the WD Spider set is still trash.

>>384561605
>just watch my favorite youtube celebrity be cause I'm incapable of making arguments by myself

>>384561387
>Ignoring the arguments on the all caps post just to suit your narrative
>ignoring that retard who called him D3 fanboy just because he was criticizing PoE
You should work on journalism.

>>384555206
try refuting his point next time little libby

>>384561605
I just can't believe how much of a mongoloid this guy is, just screaming that no one has an argument whilst being presented with non-stop facts, all the while keeping up this bizarre smug attitude as though he's not being completely shat on by the entire thread.

I shouldn't let 4chan losers piss me off, but smug idiots who don't know how stupid they are really push my buttons.

The worst part is I'm literally a D3 fanboy, I've played so much of it over the years, but this guy is so unbelievably wrong to even try and equate D3 and PoE in terms of quality or build diversity, PoE is without a doubt the superior game by a long, long, LONG shot.

>>384561712
samefag is obvious
you've been BTFO so hard non-stop this entire thread, just give it up already

>>384561758
>equate
>400 posts eariler
>>384559237
>They both have problems, D3 moreso when it comes to endgame because it HAS no endgame
Did you even read the thread?

>>384561530

Top build isnt the same as viable you fucking mong.

The vast majority arent 3000+ hour leadboard autists. Ill agree if you want to climb yes you have to conform to a meta but if you want to say clear Guardian on the Journey you can play almost any build

>>384561897
>3000+ hour
>leadboard autists
You do realize D3 is 5 years old?

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>>384561897
I really don't understand what you're trying to say here, top build IS the same as viable, because only one build is viable, and it's (obviously) also the top build.

What more do you want me to say? Can you clarify your point a little?

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>>384561848
"Samefag" is not an argument.
Misrepresenting what the guy said when you can just scroll up and read the thread isn't one either. Both PoE and D3 are shit, the fact that PoE is less shit doesn't mean much when the standard is so low.

>>384560649
>and every other 'build' is just using the different (completely worthless) skills that aren't strong enough to clear the default game.
What the fuck are you talking about

>>384561758
well sorry if i hurt ur feeling, im sure we all want to see diablo 3 be great again, but atm im following what everyone else is playing and that happend to be path of exile,

All this bad things happening to diablo 3 could be because blizzard is making a new hack n slash game, maybe even in the overwatch universe or whole new universe... maybe blizzard company has grown too big that they cannot archieve good things anymore...

>>384561605
Holy shit is that the new passive tree? That's bullshit, there's way too many nodes to get somewhere relevant. Did they double up on skill points or something?

>>384562046
What the fuck are YOU talking about? Are you seriously trying to argue that Diablo has any build diversity what-so-ever? Because pro-tip for you right here: It doesn't

>>384562027
Is there any game where there isn't only one build by that definition? If you crunch the numbers and put in an assload of grinding hours there's always going to be something that's faster and better than the others.

>>384557458
The final nail in the coffin was D3 releasing, not this. Can't believe you would suffer through 3000 hours of such an absolutely shitty game

>>384562027

Because the "one build" argument only works if you assume that every player on D3 is playing for no other reason than to hit rank 1 on the leaderboard, which simply isnt true.

>>384562187
I understand what you're trying to say, there will always by definition be a single build that is slightly better than any other.

The problem that killed D3 however was that there is only one build that is light-years ahead of any other build.

And that build is always the one that relies on having a set of armour which gives some insane XX,XXX% power buff to weapon damage, which means if you want to play high-level content every single class gets pigeon holed into a single build, which is obviously fucking awful for a gear game and completely kills the point of it.. Hence Diablo 3 going from 30 million players to 800.

Is there PvP in D3?

>>384555221
You are wrong. They added new location, monsters, and some events.

>>384561697
Maybe read a post before replying to it next time, dumbass

So is there any new interesting content or do they really expect me to shell out $15 for a single class?

>>384562137
looks like the skill tree from before scion and then duplicated ontop of other skilltree

>>384562349
Yes, but its basically not worth playing because its completely broken gameplay wise.

>>384555137
>gr42

LMFAO

NICE BUILD FAGGOT

>>384560934
yeah you're a cum-stained cuck, I feel bad 4 u

>>384562137
https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAMAAQ==

>>384555137
You need to be on gr60 to even get the seasonal stash tabs iirc

>>384562284
At this point I'm basically just repeating the reason Diablo 3 died over and over in this thread, I'll say it one more time and then I'm tearing myself away from this horrible train-wreck of a thread.

Yes there are technically other 'viable' builds, if you consider 'viable' being clearing the campaign, a campaign that is literally 2 hours long. If you only want to get 2 hours out of your $60 purchase, then yes, you can use any build you want.

HOWEVER; if you want to do any content, ANY content that matters, not just #1 on the ladders, not the most skilled player ever, just simple T13 rift clearing (Which is where all the players are on multi, so if you bought the game this is where the meat is) you MUST use one specific build per class, it used to be two, but now the impact of single sets that take up your entire character to give some insane unbeatable bonus means that every single class works towards a single build that they all use, and you will find literally no build diversity what-so-ever.

Please trust me, I've played so much of this game, and I've been through all the things that you're saying, I've tried to rationalize that not everyone needs the top tier builds and maybe other builds work for casual play, but you honestly get into the realm of needing these builds within a single day of starting to play.

The meta of the game is fucked, every single class is force-routed into a single build relying on a single set of armour with some obscene buff, and the only other 'builds' are swapping out one of the 5 powerful rings for one of the other powerful rings, if you can call that building.

That's why the game is dead, that's why everyone left, it can't be fixed and you can't really play the game with a non-meta build, because the 2 hour long campaign isn't worth the price of purchase to any breathing human.

What if we actually took D3 combat, and combined it with good itemization, trading, and build variety?

>>384562591
You can do T13 rifts with a lot of builds as long as you plan them decently (slapping together some brainless build in 2 mins will obviously prove futile). You're so wrong dude, its not even funny. I guess you could argue that your clear time would be pathetically long in comparison to the "predetermined builds", but you can clear T13 in any one of your custom builds, even without sets.

>>384562591
Builds are 1 thing but what about actual endgame content

What difference in gameplay do i get from doing GR1 vs GR100?

>>384562817
Not him but there isn't one, the story is shit, grifts are just rifts with a countdown, rifts are reskinned story maps, adventure is literally just a storymode with additional events and you can't even test builds because they are bottlenecked by the set system.

the worst thing about poe is having to spend 5+ hours in your tabula rasa spamming fire storm or whatever the fuck and running as fast as you can through the levels before you can actually play the build

>>384562817
>GR1
You breeze through the levels without any enjoyment as your character tears apart a rift guardian in a second.
>GR100
You have to have fully optimized gear based on a single meta build, as well as high paragons, kill times are incredibly long, and you actually need to plan your moves ahead while participating in combat.

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>>384562789
I mean.. You can think that if you want, but that doesn't make it true. I've been actively playing this game for multiple hours a day for years, even now, and I can tell you with more certainty than you could provide on the subject that you CANNOT clear T13 rifts with 'a lot of builds'. Half the classes can't even clear the rift with builds plural, they literally rely on the single overpowered armour set that blizzard has provided to each class.

Fuck, I said I'd leave, I'm leaving, you can think whatever you want, it won't actually change the truth or the fact that everyone left because the build diversity is fucked.

It was nice to talk about D3 with someone for a while though, even if it was in a crappy 4chan thread, how depressing.

>>384562817
It's much less forgiving. A retarded seal can clear GR1, GR70 upwards needs gear, skill, competent teammates.

i just started playing this game and i was having a lot of fun. now that i read this guys posts i lost all motivation
>>384562591
>>384557796
>>384557458

>>384563141
it's not wrong tho

>>384563141
Yeah, just a word of advice, if you plan on picking any other game on the genre avoid Torchlight 2, the first one is ok and avoid PoE as well.

>>384563072
Build diversity is fucked at the top levels, not at T13 you fucking moron. I'm glad you left, I'm frankly sick of people pretending to know shit about shit.

>>384553916
>diablo 3
>thinking you would have actual build diversity in the meta that is GR

Go back to Path of Exile

>>384563281
you come off like an angry fanboy or someone who only recently purchased the game and is trying to justify the spending

>>384562975
>>384563078
soo just bigger numbers? ok that sounds extremely fun

>>384563437
No, I'm someone who doesn't even play the game anymore that calls you out on being wrong.

>>384563141
D3 threads on /v/ would do that to you, and that comes from someone who enjoys D3 from time to time. Just get the fuck out of this thread and try the game out for yourself. You CAN have fun with it and it's not as inherently terrible as people here would make you believe.

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>>384563281
You can insult me all you want my dude, build diversity is fully fucked at T13, and if you actually play the game then you yourself know that to be true. There's not much more that needs to be said at this point, call me a moron if you want, it won't bring D3 back.

>>384556645
How did they managed to release the exact two classes I want?

>>384563141
Have fun while you can, first time playing d3 was some of the most fun I've had in a while, but after a few years of the same thing it's not so good

>>384563538
not the guy you replied to, but if you dont play the game and hes a nolifer then

>>384563575
I don't even play D3 anymore, nor do I care if it's "brought back", so please stop projecting. If you actually think that you need full set piece bonuses to clear T13 you're just bad at theorycrafting and designing builds, period.

>>384556267
my faith bowa says hello

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>>384558135
made a pasta of it just to send as an autoreply to diablo fags in exile general

is it just me or does the blizzard app slow down your browser?

The only way to find out is to put in the leg work. In doing so you might find something that you like about the game.
Even if I find that my motivation for playing is crushed by lewd set bonuses, I like handicapping myself. Maybe playing all rare builds with friends or whatever. I enjoy reading D2 Hell P8 playthroughs on jsp to give some idea.
Also, if it is still mechanically difficult to play at the top tier, i think i could stomach being locked to one build.

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>>384556645
when does it comes out?
cant wait to start a new game and actually finish it this time due to necromancer

>>384564025
i just wish it had endgame content

>>384564138
i think the endgame content in games like those is just rerolling different classes and builds after you max out the ones you started with

newb here, can i extract the passive boost from hellfire rings?

>>384555217
because those synergies allowed for multiple builds to work since lots of abilities had synergies all over the place, and also the game didn't shoe horn you into sets by default, though some classes did work better with them

Also d2 had actual uniques where one item could completely change how you play the game and it had like 20 fucking affixes on it, as opposed to world of war-I mean d3 where everything is just stat based except a weapon maybe giving off a different effect for an ability

>>384562632
it's called path of exile

>>384555217
>D2
>every build is capable of clearing nearly all the content if not all the content, even if its inefficient
>D3
>you have to be this very specific solved build that will be nerfed in the next season because "blizzard fotm balance in a pve game", or you can do absolutely fucking nothing of note
yeah whats really worse about D3

>>384553916
I played a necro till about lvl 50 and I had fun

I'll probably play the new season

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>>>>384563885
spiced that for u my nigga

>>384555437
D3 is nothing but paragon, besides playing a viable set/build, paragon is the ONLY way you progress in D3, your skill and fishing only get you so far, after a point you need paragon levels and grinding for them because bot worthy, so really whats the point in playing it?

Every season the paragon requirements for true pushing just increase, at one point in the game being paragon 1000 was uthinkable but now you need to be in the 4000s to compete, its actually fucking atrocious and no doubt the idea they took into wow with artifact power and how its ruining that game as well

>>384564138
Did you complete the Crucible?

>>384564815
PoE combat is clunky af. It may have builds variety, gear variety, but the actual combat itself is just disgusting. The only really good thing about D3 is how the combat and you character in general feels.

>>384564025
Still no release date. Next Dev Update is on the 24th.

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>>384564958
Zoom in on the words closer. Where the fuck are the reaction images? You call that a /v/ screencap?

>>384556037
poison nova was the best shit in D2, but then it kinda got nerfed and other shit over took it, its a shame that people hate fishmancers because of all the stupid unit collision, but its the most fun build for necro outside old PN.

literally the plays the game for you in a game that always made my shoulder hurt after a day of clicking

>>384564815
>PoE
>good combat
lol

>>384556385
It's true that you can boil some posts like these down to nostalgia, but I'm here to unironically tell you that everything blizzard does now is worse, from an overall quality perspective.

What is confusing you is that they have given pretty respectable quality of life improvements to their games so you think that means something since you can be lazier with how you go about playing the game. For instance, if you think legion is better than vanilla/bc/wrath you are a moron, but what is better about legion is that it has a gaggle of QoL improvements that make the game SEEM better at face value.

Same thing with diablo 3 when compared to 2, its more streamlined and easier to digest, but you break it down and the game falls apart because its nothing but paragon grinding and builds that get nerfed for no reason other than "we can't balance this game for every class so lets just do our FOTM cycle shit".

Things like starcraft you could argue about for hours, so I won't go into it, and Overwatch and Hots is (relatively) new territory for them so you can give them a pass on those if you wanted.

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>>384553916
>Seriously their design team is an absolute joke. Who thought this was a good idea?

people warned them over and over again that the design was trash during the beta, they promised changes, then shipped it without doing anything

the issue is that all the talent blizzard once had is gone, and because diablo doesn't make money like overwatch, wow, or hearthstone, they have a skeleton crew of millennials and interns that never even played diablo ii working on the franchise, making decisions in a vaccuum. last years' blizzcon featured a diablo anniversary slideshow that showed only screenshots of d1 and d2 heavily-modded (obvious to anyone who played either game), pulled from the first five google results for "diablo screenshot," and nobody noticed or gave a shit.

If PoE is so fantastic, fun and gripping, why do fanboys need to justify it like shills on offtopic threads?

All the game is, is an unnecessarily laborious passive stat tree and item system that ends up with you using a similar amount of skills as in Diablo 3.

>>384562789
you smoking your own dope dude, this is complete bullshit, I've had characters built for clearing grift 100+ which requires massive AoE that can't speed run T13 rifts INEXPLICABLY, and you come in here talking some bullshit like just any build can make T13 work if you are slow enough, fuck outta here

honestly don't even post in D3 threads unless you are minimum paragon 3000, cause you don't know jack shit about what you are talking about

Who even plays this kind of garbage gameplay in 2017 for anything barring the campaigns?
Of course it's shit. The only excuse for this braindead shenanigan was the lack of proper MMOs existing to make your autistic grinding even mean something.
This garbage is obsolete.

>>384557293
For starters those things get changed a lot because the game gets meaningful updates. You can also use multiple life and melee builds without poison to clear every content in the game

>>384559237
You're one autistic retard. Poe has build diversity and diablo 3 doesn't that's a fact

>>384559615
They're not the same character you retard. To you have to be this stupid to enjoy d3?

>>384556723
I enjoy PoE but it looks like shit compared to D3. D3 has a lot of issues but thanks to the sound/visual effects and animations it feels great to play.

That said, there's no reason you can't enjoy both games other than repetitive stress injuries from all that clicking.

>>384559129
>implying unorthodox builds come even remotely close to cookie cutter sin power
Complete bollocks. Diablo 3's skill system is good, the problem is Diablo 3's skills aren't.

>>384568470
>Diablo 3's skill system is good
Bullshit. Tell me how one character in D3 is different from another of the same class besides the shit that's on them.

>>384553916
>Even the pet build barely have any pets (temp ones dont fucking count, especially when they only last 6s)

Complete garbage.

I just don't understand what is wrong with a minionless necro being the best.

Does nobody else remember when Bone Spear/Poison Necro was the only viable Necro in D2?

>>384569161
just read this thread and the answer is a resounding no
/v/ is filled with underage retards who could only beat d2 by having the game play itself via pets
doubt half the people posting here were even alive when d2 came out

>>384569161
Literally nothing wrong with petless necro since Diablo 3 is in a completely different pace than Diablo 2 and playing with pets is such a meme anyway

>>384566606
I'm not even sure what your argument is here, that you can do GR100 with a build but can't speedrun T13 with it? Which is obviously bullshit by the way, anything capable of GR100 will blaze through T13 due to the sheer damage output, even if it's not the most efficient or fast way of doing it.

As for build diversity in T13, it exists for sure, I have no idea why people are bullshitting this hard. I threw together a basic build on Wiz and Monk, with unoptimized items/skills, 0 set bonuses, and only some lvl 90-100 gems just to prove this shit to myself because it's been a while since I played. And guess what, easy 9 minute clear didn't even need to utilize pylons.

And why would you play nonseasonal, when it distorts powerlevels due to paragon being inflated? People on /v/ are so full of shit its ridiculous.

new season in 3 hours
get hype

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>>384553916
Blizzard are masters of game design and if you think otherwise you're wrong.
You think you want a pet build, but you don't really.

>>384568674
>tell me how one character is different from another except for [most of the shit that differentiates characters in any RPG]
How you choose to play them, which is and should always be the most important factor anyway.

>>384571102
>[most of the shit that differentiates characters in any RPG]
That's called a skill build you inbred retard. The one thing D3 doesn't have because all skills are unlocked by default.
>have two wizards
>play one of them differently just to prove a point even though they're as different as items you pull from the stash and put on them
You're legitimately retarded

>>384569161
Minion Masters were something from a different era, when RPGs weren't about being on top of some bullshit meta, and the content difficulty ceiling was low enough that you could win with an unviable character. Nowadays everyone wants an infinite difficulty ceiling so they can gratify their ego in the form of direct statistical accomplishment.

A class that virtually plays itself like D2 minion master simply wouldn't work nowadays because it's a zero-skill playstyle, meaning that if it's good then tryhards will get butthurt and if it's bad then people that want to be meta will be butthurt. It's a can of worms that Blizz presumably decided not to open at all. Just another thing that treating diablo like an esport fucked up.

>>384571303
Skill builds are still a thing, you just don't arbitrarily have to remake an entire goddamn character within the exact same class to change it. No point getting mad at a simple reality that nobody that doesn't bot doesn't want to put up with that kind of horseshit in modern video games.

>>384571587
>you just don't arbitrarily have to remake an entire goddamn character
Which used to be the entire goddamn point. Is D3 your first diablo game? I wonder what mental hoops you have to jump through to explain the ability to create multiple characters of the same class to begin with. I suppose it was just added on a whim because why would you fucking ever create a character in an RPG, right?

>>384571812
>entire goddamn point
Never was. Grinding for gear so you can grind for gear even faster is the only point of Diablo-like games.

>>384571303
>alright, I got my wizard to endgame using mainly X and Y skills
>I think I'll try playing through the game again but with A, F, and Z skills instead
Holy shit, it's like you can get literally the exact same experience and you're just butthurt that the game doesn't arbitrarily force you to do it when you don't want to. It's like you're so weak-willed that you need an incentive to do anything because you can't even admit you never wanted to do it at all.