Why church and related characters always depicted as a villain

Because religion has a long history of oppression and violence?

>>384534181
/thread. Pretty much the only real answer here.

Nips can't stand Christianity.

It's rather rapturous.

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>>384534041
Wasn't there something about Miyazaki being disappointed that people didn't see Imposter Iosefka as a tragic hero?

It's difficult to consider her as another heroine in the game, aside from side quest, there was few interaction with her.

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But in the Trails games and some other games like Radiata Stories games they're the good guys, and in lots of others, especially JRPGs, they're just an indifferent faction with good guys and bad guys in it.
>>384535260
Western games are way harsher on the church than nips.

It's funny because all the Casltevania shitposting is all about how the games depict the church as good but the show does not.

>>384537749
>mfw the Church in Trails has it's own badass taskforce that smites those who would hurt innocent people or abuse ancient weapons

So now that we have proved that it isn't always depicted as a villain I expect the OP does the right thing and kill himself.

>>384534041
It easier and usually more interesting to write about abuse of power than proper use of it. The church in xenogears is much more interesting than if they were just do-gooders.

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>>384534041
Sometimes they're not
Sometimes they're heroes

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Legitimately a good guy to the very end, if not ignorant and idealistic. No man of faith has surpassed Saint Urbain in Souls. Alfred is awesome too though.

>>384536461
I've never heard that.

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>>384538084
>mfw the government actually improves the life of the people

>>384538220
Whay are there literally no games where those in power are right by the games narrative?

It makes for a fun juxtaposition

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>>384538358

>>384538392
Tropico

>>384538392
Because there needs to be conflict and then the only way you get conflict is by introducing outside forces. Even then it's nice to toss in a corrupt bishop or duke or something just for drama.

>>384538358
>>384538475
I fucking love this game and it's the only reason I want an xbox emulator.

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>>384538084
The Gralsritter are one of the few "good" powerful factions in my view, as are the Liberl and Imperial families, despite the corruption that seeped in their administrations.
>>384538220
But when they're evil guys all the time it just gets boring and stale, there can be moral ambiguity in a fundamentally good organization. Play Trails in the Sky TC where you literally play as a priest.

Japs love adding at least a cathedral to all their games

As for the soulsborne games 99% of shits are fucked up, of course the religious shit is fucked up too

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>>384534041
Gooks have a long history with Christianity dating back to the 16th century. They crucified portugese missionaries who came over to convert and left them at their ports as a reminder to not bring that shit here no more. And all in all I think it's for the best because the current past Christian countries are degenerate hellholes importing third world subhumans and group singing after a subhuman nailbombs a children's concert. Also Gooks are huge westaboo's.

>>384538320
>Osbourne made Crow's dying village into a hub of trade and commerce
>Osbourne offered to relocate Scarlet's entire village and build them modern homes
>Osbourne made an example of Vulcan's Mercenaries to hurt/ kill people for money
>Osbourne literally did nothing wrong and the rebels aren't do-gooders but literal terrorists throwing a temper tantrum while Osbourne tries to keep the Noble families from starting a war
>The Empire is arguably the good guys and the rebels the bad guys

I fucking love Trails.

>>384538572
Well usually they're depicted as a sort of, the dudes at the top are corrupt but a bunch of people lower are doing the right thing as far as they know. BoF2 had that I believe FFT had that and I think most jrpgs don't paint them entirely bad.

>>384538392
Again, Trails. The Church is good, the Imperial family is good, the Liberl royal family is good, nobility is a mixed bag but "nobility" itself is seen as an inherently good thing and most nobles are good guys.

>>384534041
Art imitates life.

>>384538563
they can still create that drama through an enemy rebel faction that bolsters it's forces to match the current government's, and you end up supporting the regime in disposing of them. Unfortunately, very few games use this take on the power struggle, which is kinda lame.

>>384538761
If that's the case shouldn't it mostly depict disgraceful faggots suckling on nigger Somali feet?

>>384538320
Only if you're an Erebonian commoner

>>384538664
Yeah, the whole point of Osborne's character is that he's a maniacal evil conqueror, but actually smart about it.

Dragon Age "Inquisition" was such a disappointment.

>Inquisition
>Do no actual religious purging, dogma or propaganda
>Recruit gays, lesbians, bisexuals, nonhumans, demons and actual heretics
>The main character can denounce god as much as he wants in dialogue

>>384538664
>Osbourne tries to keep the Noble families from starting a war
Are you retarded? He intentionally instigated the war as a pretense to take over Erebonia without losing support of the people. He also allowed Garrelia to be wiped out to create false pretenses to invade Crossbell.

I can't believe you fucking retarded EOP shitposters STILL think Osborne is a good guy when the entire premise of CS3 is that he's turning Erebonia into a totalitarian police state.

>>384539057
Everyone will be an Erebonian commoner soon enough. Except for Rean who'll be the next emperor.

What about the Dragon Quest games?
>Church heals you, cures you, and resurrects your dead ass.

>>384539262
Wrong, if you weren't born in Erebonia, you're treated like shit. There's a reason nobody likes living under Erebonian rule other than the jews who get more money for doing so, and don't care that Osborne committed acts of terrorism in order to do so.

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>>384539196
>Bioware
What did you expect from a game made by godless heathens? What are some games that allow me to cull and condemn the wicked with holy retribution?

>>384539102
Not to mention for a "maniacal evil conqueror", literally everyone benefits from it as long as they don't rebel.

Being conquered by Osbourne is a ludicrously good deal. In exchange for independence, he opens up jobs and brings in economy and a standard of living.

>>384538250

St. Urbain looks so much cooler in his loading screen than in-game. Same with Rydell.

>>384539249
>fucking retarded EOP shitposters

Until the games are translated, we only know what Sen gives us.

>>384539274
>What about the Dragon Quest games?
Nope, sorry. The OP said that it always happens, so Dragon Quest or any of the other games mentioned here don't count. Church is bad and as such is always depicted as bad. Art imitates life, after all.

>>384538250
Post crusader comic

>>384539249
But lots of people in Crossbell supports Osbourne. And if the alternative to a strongman is the nobility waging war against itself and Calvard encroachment then I'd rather live under Osbourne. Which was the case in places like Jurai where the people liked being under imperial rule and Crow was a literal terrorist. It's not that clear cut that Osbourne is a bad guy, especially considering that Calvard is said to be a shithole, Crossbell is ran like a company and the only decent and stable place in that side of the continent is Liberl.
The only thing even remotely close to being a police state in Erebonia is how they're getting rid of bracers, and even that depends on the regions since Laura's dad has enough say in the Empire that in his land they're free to move around.

>>384539379
>Not to mention for a "maniacal evil conqueror", literally everyone benefits from it as long as they don't rebel.
Aside from anyone who isn't Erebonian, who gets treated like a second-class citizen and has half their income taxed away.
>Being conquered by Osbourne is a ludicrously good deal
Yeah, it's so good the mayor of Crossbell was shaking and crying and talking about how ashamed he was at getting such a good deal when Erebonia conquered them!
>>384539491
Which is more than enough to work out Osborne's deal, especially if you played The 3rd, but you retarded CS faggots skipped the "dated" games because they only have one anime schoolgirl waifu in them.
>>384539726
>But lots of people in Crossbell supports Osbourne.
Wrong.

>>384539726
>The only thing even remotely close to being a police state in Erebonia is how they're getting rid of bracers
So you haven't even been paying any attention to pre-release CS3 info?

>>384539249
>is that he's turning Erebonia into a totalitarian police state

How so? I mean, he got rid of Bracers so he can have his own Erebonian Bracer equivalent that he can control, sure, but the Nobles already turned the parts of Erebonia they control into Police States.

>>384539902
>I mean, he got rid of Bracers so he can have his own Erebonian Bracer equivalent that he can control,
He did no such thing.
>the Nobles already turned the parts of Erebonia they control into Police States.
Yes, and now the entire country is just one big machine made to conquer the entire continent. Although I can't wait to see Osborne fail to invade Liberl for a second time in a row.

>>384539312
Sara, fast arts guy, the wind seem to be doing well. No one ever gave Crow any shit either. Hell, Crow even admits Erebonia did good.

>>384539893
>So you haven't even been paying any attention to pre-release CS3 info?
Not really since the stuff I did read seemed to be full of spoilers already, I did see Shirley and Fie's new look though.

>>384539836
>The 3rd

Isn't the 3rd really shit? Like, the entire game is a dungeon?

>>384534041
Because actual religious people don't know how to make good games. Most games are made in Japan, and Japanese people don't generally follow the big religions. That means christianity is either used as "wow mysterious symbols" like cross-shaped explosions in Evangelion or "wow cultists" like in most other works.

>>384540037
>Not really since the stuff I did read seemed to be full of spoilers already
They haven't spoiled anything about the game itself, unless you mean spoilers for previous games, which isn't really an issue since you already spoiled them all by playing CS.
>>384540043
The 3rd is one of the better games in the series, certainly much better than CS1 and 2.

>>384540245
>The 3rd is one of the better games in the series, certainly much better than CS1 and 2

Outside of "muh old battle system" that I do agree with, I loved Sora FC/ SC, you didn't answer my question.

>>384540003
Yeah, Sara's doing well, other than falling into severe alchoholism after her mentor and possibly lover died by Osborne's hands. Totally fine and dandy.
>fast arts guy
That's because he was out of the area when it happened. Not to mention it's not very intelligent to fuck with the First Dominion's fucktoy.
>Hell, Crow even admits Erebonia did good.
He says the end result was better than their country falling into ruin, but he wanted revenge and followed Osborne's example for executing it (committing acts of terrorism).

Church is synonym of corruption.

>>384540469
I did answer your question. The game isn't shit, unless your only metric for measuring that is how many schoolgirls are in it.

>>384540486
>mfw his dumb uncle started the whole thing and literally no one would probably support Crow if they found out the reason for his rebellion

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The Catholic Church is evil and wrong, why aren't you Gnostic yet anon?

>>384540245
I've played every game that is out in English except for the one that requires a fan patch. I just saw the pictures and assumed they'd go on lengths about what happened in the meantime but since I already know that I'll buy CS3 anyways I'd rather go in blind.
>>384539994
>Although I can't wait to see Osborne fail to invade Liberl for a second time in a row.
What are the odds of failure considering they have the Thirteen Workshops and the Reinford company making them gundams.

>>384540603
How so? Osborne started it by blowing up the railway, because he knew Crow's grandfather would get blamed for it.

>>384540542
>unless your only metric for measuring that is how many schoolgirls are in it

I haven't used the word "schoolgirl" or even "waifu" once. I asked "I heard The 3rd doesn't have any exploration and is one large dungeon?". If you are going to give me meme answers, just say so.

>>384534041

It's the perfect thing for a villainous organization.

>>384538239
These guys bully my furry who just wants to rip and tear people apart.

>>384540690
>What are the odds of failure considering they have the Thirteen Workshops and the Reinford company making them gundams.
Well considering they failed to invade Liberl because of a single ship, probably pretty high.
>>384540725
The 3rd has plenty of exploration, but a large chunk of that is in dungeons. Not one dungeon.

I dunno I played Dragon Quest and Trails in the Sky and the church were pretty good guys in both games.

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>>384534041
Probably for similar reasons as to why the Scorpion is always depicted as a villain in the Scorpion and the Frog fable despite doing absolutely nothing wrong.

>>384540698
Wasn't Crow's grandfather the one that refused Osbourne in the first place without even letting the rest of the town in on the facts, while the rest of the town really wanted Osbourne to build the railway?

>>384540939
No, he was vocally opposed to it since he knew it was a ploy to take over the country but got outvoted. When Osborne blew up the railway, everyone blamed him for it, assuming he'd done it.

>>384540486
Sara isn't an alcoholic, she just loves drinking.

>>384540832
>The 3rd has plenty of exploration, but a large chunk of that is in dungeons.

That was my concern, a lot of people said that The 3rd is a huge, dull slog because of the large amount of dungeons, Eh, I'll decide later on whether to get it or not.

>>384540832
>Well considering they failed to invade Liberl because of a single ship, probably pretty high.
A flying ship against outdated weapons on the ground. Wew. Yep, that was the real Erebonian military alright.

>>384534041
Alfred wasn't a villain. He was just doing right by his master. He never steers you wrong and is very gracious for your help.

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Because as far as writing a force that isn't seen as villainous by the majority of the world while injecting, "well, they're evil FOR A REASON", churches are an easy choice.

>>384541480
Don't forget that they were lead by a guy that had to be saved by a kid from wolves.

>>384534041
that's what edgy teens buy

>>384541157
I don't know, it's much less dull than FC or CS1 and 2 because its plot actually moves along.

>>384541593
Don't all the hunters work for the church?

Eilleen seemed like a good gal and Gascoigne just got JUSTED.

>>384535260
That's not actually true. They love Roman Catholic aesthetics, but the actual religion they simply don't understand so well. And the evil church narrative is just interesting and based more on gnosticism than Christianity.

>>384538084
>>384537749

So, which Trails game should I start with? Any of them non-turn based?

>>384540636
Because gnosticism is stupid pie in the sky escapism. Christianity was more practical, focusing on 'bearing fruit' in the material world, and that's why it survived as a religion

>>384542692
With the first Trails in the Sky, and all of them use an ATB battle system.

>>384537878
Well, yeah. It's a series about killing vampires with holy objects. Not really the place for a typical Warren Ellis "RELIGION IS BAAAD" rant.

>>384542767
>being this materialistic
enjoy y*hwehs prison, m8

It's a simple "the guys you don't expect to be evil are evil" twist.

>>384541157
I honestly still never beat it and it's been two months now. It's just dungeons and dungeons, its scale and scope isn't as grand as FC and SC, and it's everything is pretty dependant on how much you care about Kevin, since it's not like the fate of Liberal is at stake or anything.
And no NPCs to talk to is a terrible mistake.

>>384534041
Because if you're the sort of villain who wants to get a whole society to do something crazy, it's easiest to convince them that God wants it.

>>384542498
The Church and the Choir were in to some heinous shit but the hunters were mostly ignorant about it except Gherman and Maria. Mensis was the most fucked up of all. Byrgenworth was sort of neutral, they may have turned one of their students into a retarded caterpillar, but it was done in order to hold off the blood moon. Then again everything started there and the Church was mostly a front for research for Mensis and later the Choir.

So I guess the real villain was college, not religion.

A lot of their early European contacts were with Dutch and European Protestants, which probably colored their view of the Catholic Church, as did their experience with Jesuit missionaries.

>>384542803
It's actually CTB not ATB

>>384538250
>tfw Garl of Vinland was never surpassed by Paladin Leroy (who got nothing), not surpassed by Vendrick the Defender of the King and just barely did they get it right with my boy Mourne of Carim in DS3, but he needed more lore and screentime.

>>384534041
Nips hate religion
Leftists hate religion
They make most of the games.
Christianity is popular with american conservatives but they don't make shit like video games.

>>384538662
>And all in all I think it's for the best because the current past Christian countries are degenerate hellholes importing third world subhumans and group singing after a subhuman nailbombs a children's concert.
While I agree that the western world has lost it's way, it's not like Japan is perfect. Their mindset about life, love and work is totally fucked.

>>384534041
It's because Christianity is currently considered non-offensive to shit on, and it's such a common connection with western audiences that it's oft utilized. So essentially, it has really broad appeal, it's easy to understand, and our culture is going in a direction where it's essentially the only modern religion that can take pot shots without there being an uproar.

Not to mention that people with serious Christian beliefs are far less likely to make video games than bitter asshats with axes to grind.

>>384543040
Well there seems to be a difference between the old Healing Church and the current one. The first generation of the Healing Church seems to at least understand that the Old Blood was dangerous and even the Vicar's Amulet has the saying to Fear the Old Blood. And even though they were kidnapping orphans to turn then into aliens it was still all about ascending humanity. But somewhere between setting half their own city on fire and locking out the general populace the Healing Church seems to have forgotten it's purpose and now just mindlessly searches for more Blood

Art imitating life. Christianity is filled with evil colonizers, killers and pedophiles, judaism is filled with monstrously evil and greedy world-destroying pieces of shit and Islam is absolute cancer. It seems like in Japan where you have a much more benign religion like Shinto there's this need to criticize all these harmful religions, and I understand it. The world would be much better off without that garbage.

XD dips bredora haha ur opinions is invalidated now lol

>>384534041
because organized religion often uses shame tactics, authoritarianism, etc, to manipulate and control people.

>>384543079
>>384542803

I know the first one is classical turn based, but wasn't Cold Steel an action RPG?

>>384543708
> Christianity is filled with evil colonizers, killers and pedophiles, judaism is filled with monstrously evil and greedy world-destroying pieces of shit and Islam is absolute cancer.
One of these reformed. Hint: it wasn't the jews.
> It seems like in Japan where you have a much more benign religion like Shinto there's this need to criticize all these harmful religions, and I understand it. The world would be much better off without that garbage.
If you like human sacrifice and orgies, sure. Heathen.

>>384543708
"Evil" is a religious concept, read at the very least some Nietzsche and Stirner you underage retard. You can't even say "religion is evil" without invoking a transcendental morality or you're just talking garbage, which you are.
>>384543242
>Nips hate religion
You clearly don't understand Japanese society, they're permeated with religion and superstition, but it's of the more pagan and mundane and "material" variety.
>>384534041
Play more games OP. In DQ they're harmless do-gooders for the most part.

>>384536461
How was she a hero?

>>384543708
What's the righteous alternative to Christianity?

>>384534041
>god is a bad guy
>the church knows
>church is intentionally shitty to try to get less people to follow god

>>384544225
She gave herself to madness to discover the eldritch truth. They have chosen her.

>>384544070
I didn't mean that kind of religion, I meant monotheism.
>>384543040
>I guess the real villian was college, not religion
The college didn't really do anything. They did not want to use the old blood for blood healing and wanted to gain insight instead. It was the church that founded blood healing and gave yharnimites the scourge, albeit by accident. And it was the choir that was into ay lmao shit and tried to turn people into great ones and celestial emmissionaries. However hunters work for the church, so I guess if anybody is supposed to be the "villians" in bloodborne it's the school of mensis.
>>384543681
It was willem, the leader of brygenwerth who said that in the cutscene. They seem to have disagreed with the church about the use of the old blood.

>>384544649
Right, Willem wanted to ignore Old Blood entirely. Laurence said that Old Blood was necessary to ascend to godhood but that he'll remember to be careful when handling the stuff. Fast forward to present day and they babbling about partaking in Communion. So someone, somewhere down the line fucked up and perverted the original intentions of the Church.

>>384544506
But she doesn't really find anything or at least she doesn't mention anything about it. She just conducts experiments on people.

>>384538761
>yfw you realize all paintings and photos are mimics waiting to strike

>>384545356
You don't understand. The aliens were getting ready to put babies in her. You killed her before she could get Amygdala cloaca. That's tragic.

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>>384534041
Those fucking hedonists up in Cainhurst ruined everything

>>384545516
Hey man...what if Vileblood and Old Blood aren't all that different?

>>384545446
Is the wiki wrong? It says she ate an Umbilical Cord but then where did she get it?

>>384544884
You have to wonder how anyone, even the insane, was living in Yharnam at all. Apparently Arianna was just going about her whoring like normal, and they were still able to organize hunts. What the fuck was going to happen the next morning if you didn't show up? There was a half-transformed hunter just down the street hanging with one of the blood drunk guys. Like nigga what was the morning of that day like? Were there no giant niggas with axes roaming the streets? No ayys with tentacle faces a block away? Was this a multi-day thing? Were the semi-sane people you talk to at the doors just in their houses for days?

>>384534041

Church was one of the original tools utilized to control society. Churches, in general, are where the wealthy used to put their 2nd born Sons and unwanted daughters. It existed as a buffer to keep the poors from rioting. "Here's all these sins, which, by the by, makes it so it sure is okay for your lord to keep you in serfdom. Don't worry bro, god's got your back... but only after you die."

Problem is, that gave them the power to try and wrest control from the oligarchs and monarchs. At the head of each church is a would-be king. Never forget it.

>>384534041
Because Religious figureheads often make for interesting and complex villains, and Japan has a huge boner for Christian symbolism and imagery.

That's pretty much all there is to it, ignore edgy atheist posters trying to rile shit up, or the moronic religionfags who take their bait.

cultural marxism

>>384538662
get a load of this edgy reddit retard trying to fit in

>>384534041
Why doesn't she wear shoes? The player version of her outfit isn't barefoot.

>>384545948
The game as a whole is about Bergynwerth and the Church trying their hardest to hide all the dirty shit they do. Even Gherman pretty much tells you to kill shit without thinking about it and Maria and Brador tries to murder you for getting too curious about the history of the Hunters. I imagine the Church just kept feeding the populace bullshit about foreigners being the reason for their blood being polluted which is why townspeople hate them. Because they're ignorant to the reality that their magic blood is the problem. And anyone that's turned, either from the Blood or the Phantasms, they just sic the Hunters after. I mean Yharnam has plenty to choose from. The black hunters, the Church hunters, the powder kegs. More I'm not thinking of.

>>384546272
I'm so grateful /pol/tards' vocabulary is so limited they unwittingly identify themselves with the very first things that come out of their stupid fucking mouths/keyboards

>>384546093
this, not to mention the huge amount of lore to pull from.

>>384537749
What's the full name of this game? Sounds kinda fun

>>384543794
No, still turn-based, but instead of grid-based movement, you can move freely during your turn.

>>384546470
It's inside the clinic, she probably wear sandals.

>>384546869
Atelier Escha and Logy: Alchemists of the Dusk Sky

>>384546991
Thanks m8, is that the Trails game or is that something completely different?

>>384534041
People have a strange interest in corrupting things that are typically seen as having a certain level of purity to them. Look at Robot Chicken, Pennywise, Chuckie, and all of the "What if Superman was evil?" comics stories.

>>384547180
Completely different series, Atelier games are JRPGs witha huge focus on item and equipment crafting, Trails are story/ world-building heavy JRPGs

>>384546032
>It existed as a buffer to keep the poors from rioting.

It also exists to sponge up the bad outcomes, who tend to be miserable and outburst prone. Christianity is basically a religion for the "morbid brain" if you ask nietzsche, and that makes sense because all of their ideas are the typical expression of miserable and impotent people (salvation's always a big theme with the miserable).

In Christianity, at least, God's ability to account for every little "right" and "wrong" thing, the "transparency" of it all is straight-up a fantasy conjured by someone who can't face the huge lack of accountability and justice in life. It's a soothing, re-assuring fantasy that stands in for a truth that many people can't handle.

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>>384534041

>>384547457
Neat what's the full name and where to start for the Trails?

>>384547482
>It's a soothing, re-assuring fantasy that stands in for a truth that many people can't handle.
You couldn't possibly mean the truth that you're waifu a shit.

>>384534041
Because it's the easy road.

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>>384534041
You're wrong OP, She is a fantastic person...

>>384534041
>Final Fantasy Tactics
>the church is pushing two political sides into conflict so that their resources can be exhausted and the church can step in to mediate
>a select few in the church are utilizing demonic power from "holy" stones to set their own agenda in motion under the guise of the church's plans

>Grandia 2
>the pope learns their god of light is dead
>populace is unaware
>urges the continuation of prayer in belief to not cause panic
>secretly trying to reform and BE the new god of darkness

It's always a few that causes problems for the many.

>>384538662
Be careful with that edge. But you are correct

>>384547457
>item and equipment crafting
Makes me remember the times when crafting wasn't in every western game which made Atelier series stand out.

>>384549256
For all the bitching it gets I'm quite happy we see more crafting. I unironically enjoyed living as a blacksmith in skyrim.

>>384549893
>I unironically enjoyed living as a blacksmith in skyrim.
>pretending to role play in skyrim

>>384544225
She genuinely thought she was saving people by turning them into kin before they turned into beasts. The church, brygenwerth and the great ones consider kin to be superior to humans because they are more like great ones.
>>384546486
>Because they're ignorant to the reality that their magic blood is the problem.
They seem to have figured it out. They all seem to hate the church and the hunters as well.

>>384534041
Because most game devs are either fedoras who worship Dawkins or feminists who believe that any religion other than Islam is sexist?

>>384534041
because christianity is an easy target to pick on

>>384534181
>>384535186
Retarded proddies spotted, always the first to spout their ignorant opinions