Metal Gear Solid 2 on the PS2 in 2001 featured dynamic lighting

>>384347946
B-but kojima is a h-hack

M-metal gear is sh-shit

>>384347946
and a locked camera

>>384349126
And with way fewer polygons than is considered acceptable these days.

>>384347946
MGS2 and GT3 both destroy anything on the Dreamcast visually and they're 2001 PS2 releases.

MGS2 also runs worse on the Xbox, it was an amazing achievement on PS2's architecture.

>>384347946
>scene reflections, model reflections
If you're referring to shit like working mirrors that was done simply making the mirror a semi-transparent texture and then making a copy of the scene on the other side. Nothing technologically impressive really.

>mocapped animation
That's not particularly impressive either from a technological point of view, just shows they had a lot of money to pay for it.

>tactical choice
What's that got to do with framerate?

>>384351105
>game is impressive
>/v/: game is not impressive

>>384351407
The fuck did you expect?

>>384351502
nothing less

>>384347946
MGS games always prioritized having good graphics over everything else.
That's why MGS1's camera hugged the ground so tightly you couldn't see shit and ended up playing the game exclusively by the radar.
That's why MGS3 and MGS4 had godawful framerates.
MGS2 is the only one which ran decently well in its original release. A shame the Big Shell's horrific level design makes it a chore to play.

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>>384351105
>16 years ago
This game is the digital Pieta

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>>384351769
>tfw you can BigBoss rank the game in less than 3h

>>384351407
>game does some impressive things
>/v/: GAME DOES ALL THE THINGS AND CURES CANCER AND IT RAN ON AN UNDERCLOCKED ATARI 2600

>>384347946
It was also very small, the environments are tiny and it's all spaced out by long codec calls.

>>384352031
Like every other MGS?
Pro-tip:
>nobody plays that series for the gameplay

>>384352132
inb4 delusional Kojimadrones try to tell you that the gameplay in these turds was good

>>384352215
the gameplay in these games are usually decent.

>>384347946
it also featured a big ass case of bait and switch.

also a convoluted as fuck ending sequence that took MGS4 to explain.

Story wise, MGS2 was a crappy sequel

>>384347946
>And it ran at a solid 60 frames per second
what is your definition of solid

>>384352471
brainlet

>>384352215
The little that it had was better than anything else out at the time.
Also the story is still unmatched to this day.

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>>384352471
>took MGS4 to explain
OUT!

>>384352471
There was never supposed to be a 3 or 4.
It's just that the brainlet masses expected another MGS1 and got vocally buttmad.

>>384351834
The whole "super-secret AI that controls information and through it mankind" is a popular conspiracy theory and has been featured in video games before, see: Deus Ex, which is also a pastiche of conspiracy theories much like MGS2 and also features the popular "secret group of powerful men with cool name that rules the world from the shadows".

Also the concept of people gravitating toward communities of like-minded individuals which then reinforce each others' opinions giving them a warped perception of reality is well known and studied by psychology and sure as hell wasn't new back when MGS2 released. And it applies to /v/ as much as it does to whatever community you hate.

>>384352621
this

>>384352545
why don't more games get stuff like document of MGS2?

>>384352621
Except DeusEx played and felt like a crappy Quake mod.

>>384347946
>scene reflections, model reflections,
actually no they where static models inversed with a seethrough floor

>>384352721
>MGS2 had better gameplay than Deus Ex
Kill yourself.

>>384352621
>comparing deus ex to mgs
fuck off

>>384351834
>Pieta

is this more /tv/ buzzword bullshit?

>>384352591
>It's just that the brainlet masses expected another MGS1
because it was marketed that way

>>384352767
It unironically did. My brother loves DeusEx but I couldn't even figure the first level out how janky it was.

>>384347946
>unparalleled environmental detail and tactical choice.

>what is deus ex

>>384352787
Yeah, putting Deus Ex in the same sentence as that trash should be punishable with death.

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>>384352795
>/tv/ buzzword
unironically kys

>>384352675
>why don't more games get stuff like document of MGS2?

because more games didn't need it

>>384352820
>MGSbrainlets are literally too retarded to play any level that isn't a corridor setpiece snoozefest.

>>384352820
>I couldn't even figure the first level

/v/ in 2017 everyone

>>384352956
>DeusEx faggots tout a janky Quake 2 mod as best game of all time

>>384352820
>this is how stupid mgs fans actually are

>>384352965
>set you on a dock
>cattle prod in hand
>go
Yeah swell game design.

>>384353049
Did you miss the part where you got a complete briefing of the situation, a map of the island, and photos of key NPCs?

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>>384347946
This is a 2002 game

The guy that couldn't beat lvl1 here

My brother couldn't beat olga without my help though. He said he loved MGS2.

>dynamic lighting and shadows
>reflections

Not really, mostly pre baked & faked reflections

But MGS2 was a technical masterpiece none the less, the rain particles are imo still some of the best in gaming

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>>384347946
>implying motion blur is a good thing
kys yourself immediately op

>>384353049
>too retarded to find the guns literally scattered everywhere around the island
did you even try?

>>384352998
>Quake 2
it used the Unreal Engine nimrod

>>384353151
It's amazing just how important lighting is to making a game look good.

>>384353190
It isn't even impressive, those framebuffer effects were ne of the easiest things for the PS2 to pull offf.

>>384347946

At 360p, no AA.

>>384353151
the screen scaling and anti aliasing are really bad on that game

>>384353235
Nope. Couldn't be bothered after the initial disappointment.

I like my games straightforward and fun. Half Life felt infinitely better.

>>384347946
Actually the environment lighting and shadows are baked.

>>384353431
it was 512x448 interlaced

Pretty bad honestly, but PS2 struggled with 480p

>>384353431
512x448. why make shit up when it takes a couple minutes to fact check?

>>384353431
>360p
It was 256x448 interlaced (so, 256x224 per field, SNES resoltion) if memory serves.

>>384353151
most under rated
>technology
game of all time

Shat all over MGS back in the DX 8/9 Xbox 1 days

>>384353719
Splinter Cell was one of the best showcases for the Xbox's power. They were also much better games.

>>384352471
>also a convoluted as fuck ending sequence that took MGS4 to explain.

Explaining everything was the wrong thing to do, it took away any possible discussion of the events of MGS2.

It's like a sequel to American Psycho where they outright say YEAH HE KILLED EVERYBODY, when the whole fucking point of the subject is that Patrick is so fucking insane not even we know if he actually committed the acts in the book/movie.

>>384353818
Xbox 1 was a hugely under rated console and the first "modern" x86 console, literally 11 years ahead of the Xbox One and PS4

Blows my mind why they went back to PowerPC but at the time all we had where fucking Dual Core pentium 4's (hello netburst) and K8's which didnt multitask as well

I guess they could wring more power out of PPC at the time mac was still using them as well

More to the point why the FUCK are they not using AMD ryzen for the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro.

At least the One X isnt starved for memory

>>384354073
>Ryzen

Too expensive, the reason these Consoles are cheap is because of the APU

If they went traditional PC set up, like a Ryzen 1700 with a RX 580, it would be 599 US DOLLARS all over again

>>384353306
thats not the point, motion blur makes a game look objectively worse and shouldn't even be an option in any graphics menu

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System Shock on the PC in 1994 featured dynamic lighting, full 3D environments full of slopes, the best 3D physics engine at the time, full voice acting, and unparalleled environmental detail and tactical choice.

And it ran at a solid 15 frames per second.

>>384354256
I don't think you know what objective means

>>384354073
The original Xbox was hacked together at the last minute. It wasn't a carefully designed and balanced system like the 360, in fact it was pretty bottlenecked by its CPU.
It was just a slightly rushed midtier PC build, subsidized and consolized. That's why Nvidia were able to screw Microsoft over with their contract.

>>384354324
>15 frames
Is this supposed to be a good thing?

>>384354507
It was a joke

>>384354248
amd would have just made a downclocked version and it wouldnt be much more than the jaguar

they could have just called it the AMD Ryzen 4k or some buzzword.

idk maybe they couldnt get it to work with the GDDR5/DDR3 unified memory bs
>>384354441
its funny nintendo went with the shitty tegra this gen as well...

Urghh why does nobody learn from other companies mistakes?

the RSX (7900gt downclocked with 128bit memory bus) in the ps3 was shite as well

>>384354256
Motion blur has its use in specific cases, like conveying the sense of speed in racing games

>>384354545
>the RSX (7900gt downclocked with 128bit memory bus) in the ps3 was shite as well
Of course it was, that was another last minute decision. The original plan was just to stick another Cell in the console and use that as the GPU. Which is almost as bad an idea as releasing the Saturn with its original weaksauce VDP1.

>>384353049
Sounds like perfect game design

>>384354716
jesus christ that sounds like Atari levels of retardation

>>384354545
>Urghh
Faggot. And the reason consoles have cheap/shitty hardware is because they need to keep the costs down to be able to sell it at the prices they do. Hence why most retards' dream console that packs $1000 worth of computer hardware and retails for $300 will obviously never be a reality.

>>384351105
>If you're referring to shit like working mirrors that was done simply making the mirror a semi-transparent texture and then making a copy of the scene on the other side. Nothing technologically impressive really.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to explain something which everyone already knew.

>>384354750
In a straightforward FPS, yes; DeusEx just felt unintuitive as fucm.

>>384353151
I remember Splinter Cell's curtains moving in realistic manner on collisions with objects gave me orgasm so big it almost killed me.

>>384354787
>Atari levels of retardation
That reminds me of this shit.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Q_Jl7nGdM
Jaguar Doom was really cool, IIRC it was the basis for many later console ports of Doom like the 3DO version.

>>384354930
Didn't the PS2 and PS3/Xbox360 rival and even surpassed PCs at the time of their release?

>>384354930
If faggots want to keep "costs down" why the fuck are they dropping $1000+ on a "4k" tv to get upsampled 1440p?

Why the fuck dont they just keep their 1080p console and get a 4k gaming pc? They cost about the same.

>>384355020
retro devs blow my mind still.

>>384355090
No.

>>384355090
>PS2
Arguably. Sony engineered that platform to achieve insane but impractical specs. Its VRAM is insanely fast, for example, which leads to some impressive theoretical throughput. Unfortunately the GPU pipeline is so short that you waste most of that bandwidth on multi-pass rendering, and it's so small that you can't fit many textures in.

The Xbox was on par with PCs at the time, and significantly cheaper. The 360 too. But I don't think they were better.

>60 fps
interlaced
>>384353151
yeah they really made good use of the lighting
SH2 was more impressive as well

>>384355000
Maybe for brainlet children

>>384355430
Nope it's obviously a shit game

>>384355090
>PS3

Nah
The GTX 8800 came out before the PS3 & utterly destroyed it

>>384349052
kojima didn't program you absolute fucking retard.

>>384355090
>PS2
Most multiplats that started on PC and were then ported to PS2 were inferior. Also the PS2 ran most games interlaced, which effectively means they only had to render half the amount of vertical lines per frame.

>PS3/Xbox360
Fun fact, the PS3 and 360 had a literal Wii CPU, the only difference is that theirs was multicore vs. the Wii's single core. A lot of the perceived strength of consoles in general and PS3/360 in particular was due to a lot of work that went into working around their deficiencies which just didn't happen on PC because you could just tell people to buy a better computer. One example is texture streaming, which was made to shorten load times that plagued consoles due to a combination of tiny RAM and having to load data from discs; this was something you didn't need to do on PC because you could just buy more RAM and call it a day. Indeed texture streaming was seen as a negative on PC since it meant you had to see blurry textures for a second and load times on computers was already practically instantaneous anyway. Also tiny levels with cleverly disguised load screens (Mass Effect's elevator rides, Max Payne 3's cutscenes every other door), dynamically changing resolutions depending on how taxed the system was, and more recently on PS4/Xbone several variations on the old interlacing technique.

But going back to PS3/360 vs. PC, Crysis came out in 2007 (less than a year after PS3) yet the console port is in parts even less detailed than the PC version at lowest settings.

>>384355128
The people who want to keep costs down are console manufacturers. As to why they sell their $400 nettop as equivalent to a thousand dollar PC, well because people will fall for it.

>>384356259
People actually think the Pro is equivalent to a thousand dollar PC

When it's a gimped 470 with a laptop CPU

>>384356343
>people
no

>>384349126
It's a design decision, not a limitation from the developers

>>384357315
Sure thing, that's why Crash Bandicoot took place in a corridor too.

>>384347946
>Metal Gear Solid 2 on the PS2 in 2001 featured dynamic lighting and shadows
Only in very specific areas, the grand majority of shadows were pre-baked. Your pic is hard proof of this.
Kojima wanted to implement a light and shadow system, ala splinter cell, but it wasn't possible with the tech and hardware they had.

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>>384351769
>you couldn't see shit and ended up playing the game exclusively by the radar
>he played on easy

>>384352675
Because people have abandoned God.

MGS2 is the Batman v Superman of games.

>>384359440
this

>>384352471
>MGS2 was a crappy sequel

that's literally the point lol

>>384347946
Bait thread

This is a screenshot of the MGSHD collection which came out in like 2013

>>384360525
you do realize that mgs1 and 2 came out on pc right