How were you supposed to find the entrance to board 9 without

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>>384290995
Pay attention.

>>384291118
That's insanely vague and just sounds like it's a trap that you should avoid. what awful translation. He's obviously meant to say something about Death Mountain, but it's just gibberish.
Also, how do you find that old man? Bombing a random wall. Good design.

>>384291256
I dont know. My dad figured it out in 1994.

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How were you supposed to know?

Is it even a good game

>>384291323
Because he got help from an outside source, like a guide. He didn't actually figure anything out.

While you figured out Lego i studied the bomb.

>>384291418
Really? Where did his father buy said guide from? How did the guy who wrote the guide find out?

You're a fucking retard. I beat the entire game without a guide and with fuck all around to help me.

>>384291404
If you ever wanted your favorite Zelda game to be short and hard then yes.

yet no one had a problem with it

guess you're just dumber than a little kid OP

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>>384291256
>Millennial faggot can't use clues to play a game, and must be spoonfed his next questmarker

>>384290995
You were supposed to do basically that plus talk to your friends on the playground and at school. It was a simpler time where you only owned a few games and most games could be beaten in thirty minutes once you muscle memorized them. If you had Zelda that would mean you had weeks or even months of potential gameplay as you worked through the game. And yes, while by modern standards this is garbage game design, by 1987 standards it was top tier.

Zelda 1 isn't nearly as cryptic as Metroid 1, which punishes you greatly for dying.

>>384291418
Nah, there were plenty of tips in the manual and map. There is a secret in every screen and my child-perspective helped us beat that game with no guides or nintendo power. Its was a good experience

>>384291370
I think the first quest is fine, but the second quest was legitimately bullshit. Use the flute on every screen, try to burn every tree, bomb every wall, etc. And once you do find a dungeon, face-fuck every wall in case it's fake.

>>384291708
How so

>>384291579
>I beat the entire game without a guide and with fuck all around to help me.
No, you didn't. You got some help from an outside source. Be that a guide, manual or friend telling you.
>>384291635
>Muh millenial
You don't even know what a millenial is, retard. Born after 1980 and before 1995? You're a millenial too.

>>384291118
How were you supposed to know what spectacle rock was?

>>384291708
The only thing in Metroid 1 that is really well hidden is the Varia Suit. Admittedly, that's pretty fucking important. But most of the rest of the game wasn't that bad. I gave up on making a map halfway through the first time I beat it and it didn't even matter.

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the thing that i think people forget is becuase there was no modern internet, people had friends. They would read magazines. Yes they are somewhat cryptic but that was the point , you and your friends would talk about this shit all the time trying to figure it out, or you would read through magazines like it was homework.

>>384291786
It's possible to beat Zelda 1 first quest and second quest with no guides, it's just tedious. Bomb every square, burn every square, etc. Eventually you'll find everything.

>>384291786
>implying you know my birth year

>>384290995
Booklet had a hint

>>384291764
I'd imagine you start over with the base 30 energy regardless of your progression

>>384291717
>Nah, there were plenty of tips in the manual and map.
So, you agree.

>>384290995
Because games back then had a certain amount of respect for the player and had this weird idea that people would communicate with one another. Its why games like Zelda, Metroid, Milon's Secret Castle and Legacy of the Wizard were hits. You and your friends would play it, get notes off of each other and slowly get through it together. Now gamers just look for a walkthrough when something is even the slightest bit difficult.

>>384291825
The rock that looks like spectacles.

>>384291954
You keep energy tanks, they just start empty and there are no save stations/recharge stations. You either need to farm the infinitely respawning enemies or git gud at killing metroids (which drop a ton of health).

>>384291635
>that overlapping hammer

>>384291986
You're probably too young to know this, but games used to come with a manual that contained backstory/tutorials/hints/etc. and people used to actually read them.

>>384290995
>create thread trying to prove old game was too cryptic
>unanimously btfo
>n-n-n-no, you guys totally had to have help from guides or the internet! It's impossible to do normally!!

Why do I keep coming to this site

>>384292009
No, games are just better designed today. There is enough info in the game that you can beat it using nothing but in-game hints. Zelda and especially Milon's Secret Castle are just poorly designed and intentionally cryptic to sell guides. That's it. It's okay to admit that these games aren't that great.

>>384292010
Every rock looked like a spectacle. They only had three sprites back in the day.

There's a reason why gaming magazines that had hints for popular games sold like hotcakes back then.

>>384292009
>Forcing the player to have outside help is respect
Don't you people complain that people these days use guides anyway? Why is it okay when the 80's did it?

>>384292196
Kill yourself, casualcuck.

>>384292196
I wouldn't say there's anything in the original Zelda that's compulsory and too cryptic.

>>384292193
>You're probably too young to know this
Why is this the only argument you people have? I grew up with an NES, but that's completely irrelevant to the argument here. The fact is that the original TLoZ is not well designed since you NEED to use outside sources in order to beat it, unless you want to brute force your way by bombing every wall tile and burning every bush.
This is not a debate about how old games are all bad, because they're not. But this particular one was poorly designed.

I was initially of the opinion that finding hidden entrances was totally random but then I actually played the first Zelda last year and I realized there were actually little subtle clues throughout the game. There's only one screen in the game that has two entrances, and they both lead to the same thing. Most screens also have an entrance of some sort hidden somewhere, and it's usually in the spot you'd expect.

Take >>384290995 as an example. If you come in from the right after playing for a while, my first thought would be that there's a hidden entrance in the screen, and chances are that it's in one of the two rocks in the middle of the screen (probably the left one since you have to walk farther to get to it and therefore deal with more Lynels). Bomb the middle of each rock starting with the left. After one bomb, you've found the final dungeon.

>>384291825
Didn't the map that came packed in with the game tell you what the landmarks were?

>>384292196
Hudson never made guides for that game. So saying they made it cryptic to sell guides is absurd. If there were guides made they never made a dime.

You're a parrot.

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>>384292407
>Eastmost peninsula holds the secret
>Secret is in the tip of the nose
The first one's meaning is still being debated among Zelda fans. If that's not bullshit enough, I don't know what is.

>>384292225
I thought that was the intention: insert some cryptic shit for people to get stuck on and give the solution to a popular mag to talk about your game

And yet we all know

>>384290995
Fucking subscribe to Nintendo Power and call the Nintendo tip hotline, nigger.

OG LoZ is fucking garbage and so is the NES and the vast majority of its library

>>384292538
Oh, so it was just bad design then.

>>384291671
> It was a simpler time where you only owned a few games

yup. you find all kind of stuff just by trial and error/luck when you play the same game for months because you don't have anything else to play until next christmast.

I've no idea how I managed to beat some more "complex" games as a kid when I couldn't even read english.

>>384291671
> If you had Zelda that would mean you had weeks or even months of potential gameplay as you worked through the game
This. People have grown used to making major progress on a game in a matter of hours, with completion coming in days, if not a week if your daily play time is low.

Yes, the point of the original Zelda is to facefuck every wall, burn every bush, blast open every rock. One of the passage ways to a dungeon, on the first quest mind you, is literally a fake wall you walk through. Nothing you do to it besides trying to walk through it will let you pass, so even bombing won't save you.

It's been admitted that NES era game design heavily drew from arcades in designing difficulty with sending you back every time you died to makes a lot of obstacles you just threw yourself at until you got gud. Consider you'd respawn with three hearts and hearts and drops in general were rarer than in later Zeldas. Every death wasn't just having to marathon back through the dungeon, you'd have to restock all over again.

You'd learn there was some bullshit expected of you, so you'd begin to look out for it. OP's actually one of the easier ones because there's these giant targets right in the middle of the screen. Try picking out some of the bushes or that fake wall.

>>384292660
>problem-solving on the players part is bad design
Why the fuck are you even here? Go play fucking Dark Souls or something.

Anyone who claims to have ''figured it out'' when they were kids are simply not remembering things properly. It's easy to get your memories mixed up, but you very, very likely just heard from someone about a bombable wall or something like that and progressed that way.
The fact that people are so defensive about this and trying to appear badass on an anonymous Finnish woodcarving imageboard is pathetic. You didn't figure it out by yourself. Deal with it.

>>384292956
I won't claim that I "figured it out".
But I bombed near every wall in the entire game. And burn every single tree and bush there was.
They're two rock formations in the middle of the screen so I bombed them before bombing the outline. And there it was.

Most of the secrets don't have hints. There are hints for the dungeons, sure. But not for the vast majority of regular secrets. So you just had to bomb and burn everything. And that was and is fine.

>>384292906
It's not problem solving. It's bullshit. It's like giving someone a puzzle and telling them to complete it, but removing some pieces and replacing them with pieces from another puzzle.
Just because something is challenging doesn't mean it's automatically good. A game can have a fair challenge without the bad shit. Take Castlevania or Mega Man for example. Good games with a decent learning curve.

>>384292956
>Anyone who claims to have ''figured it out'' when they were kids are simply not remembering things properly. It's easy to get your memories mixed up
>don't trust your memories, trust me instead!
Get the fuck out of here. You are bad at video games where you aren't spoonfed. Deal with it.

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>>384293223
>And that was and is fine.

A lot of people don't realize this, but the game has a system of "one secret per screen". There might be exceptions but I can't recall any.

What happens in a man's life to make him as mad as OP is at a 31 year old game?

>>384292546
I'm fairly certain both of those are for optional stuff. I won't pretend that the game doesn't have cryptic stuff, but everything you need to complete the game isn't too bad. The worst I can think of is requiring the Silver Arrows to defeat Ganon.

>>384292906
It's hilarious how similar the Soulsfags are to ''old-school hardcore gamers'' in regards to difficulty and balance.
Soulsfags will defend obviously broken mechanics or wonky hitboxes as intentional and Zeldafags will defend bad translation and overly cryptic shit like walking through walls as good game design.

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>>384293223
>bombed near every wall in the game
>burned every tree and bush
Is this autism?

>>384292203
No look at OP pic, the ground is the spectacles, the rocks are the lenses. I mean it's still really hard to get that that screen is supposed to look like spectacles but it makes sense.

Read manuals, strategy guides, and Nintendo Power
Or just git gud

>>384292906
>Dark Souls
Funny you mention that one, it was one of the ones that returned to respecting the player whilst keeping online hints and such.

>>384292895
>One of the passage ways to a dungeon, on the first quest mind you, is literally a fake wall you walk through.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
>1-3: Just walk up to the entrance
>4: Use the raft
>5: Climb the mountain three times
>6: Move the grave stone
>7: Use the recorder at the lake
>8: Burn the bush
>9: Bomb Spectacle Rock
If you mean the upper rightmost screen, that's a shop not a dungeon.

>>384292439
>The fact is that the original TLoZ is not well designed since you NEED to use outside sources in order to beat it
What you don't appear to understand is that technological limitations of 1980s video games meant you HAD to have outside sources for information because you literally could not program them into the game itself.

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you look at the map you finished filling out in your manual and bomb shit that looks suspicious. and surprise surprise those guys drop bombs

>>384294796
This is incredibly wrong. You could just translate the text better. Or do you think Castlevania II's NPCs don't make sense is due to technical limitations?
There are fan-translations that fix these games.

>>384291370
There's an old man in the second quest that tells you there's a secret south of the arrow. That entrance is south of the arrow by a screen.

Not really a fair point against the game since the second quest was intended for advanced players of Zelda.

>>384292010
Dude, come on. It does not look like spectacles. It's two rocks. They aren't connected by anything that would actually be the frame of a pair of spectacles, and they aren't even particularly shaped like regular spectacles would be for the lens.

>>384294929
>There are fan-translations that fix these games.
Made decades after the fact.
The Legend of Zelda came out in 1986, before games like Dragon Quest proved it was possible to get more information out of the NES than already had been, which was next to 0.
Or are you going to say something like SMB not having SMB3's graphics and length is "bad game design"?

>>384292407
There is a literally impossible to solve puzzle using pure logic because it was badly translated and means something else compared to the original.

I love the original game, but it has quite a few bullshit parts.

>>384295358
Except it has nothing to do with technical limitations and more to do with poor translation, just like I said. Those fan translations are still working within the system's capabilities.
Your graphics argument is irrelevant and doesn't even make sense.

>>384290995
I found it simply because having to rock looking the same was odd, so I bombed both and surprise Level 9 (I found it 30 years ago when I was like 8 years old, are you implying gamers nowadays wouldn't?)

>>384295895
>to rock looking
two rocks looking exactly the same

>>384295552
Why not just bomb obvious wall spots and beat the game off of that?
"I grew up with nintendo"
Where is your imagination?

Spectacle rock looks like two eyes.
You can also say the white portion are shaped like glasses with exits being the sides of the glasses.
Spectacles aka glasses.

Use your imagination friends.

"Muh peninsula"
It probably means one of a few things, however you discover all of them anyway normally. However, if you are mad that it doesn't have an exact thing for you, that's fine honestly. I'm sure if you needed the tip it would be there.

Peninsula coulda been a part of the dungeon with one entrance only which has stuff in it. Which is true for that dubgeon.

>>384292439
you act as if it's objectively bad for a game to be made simpler through outside sources. Reading a manual that comes with the game for better hints does not seem like bad design to me. Your claim of needing to blow up every tile is hyperbole and the hints linked in the thread offer you enough that isn't much of a head scratcher.

>>384296352
Explain to me what an obvious wall spot is, because literally no wall in the entire game is anywhere near obvious.

>>384296361
It is objectively worse because sooner or later, those outside sources are going to disappear. Websites will be gone and manuals deteriorate.

>>384296482
Single walls, large clumps in the map, center of walls.

This applies to bushes and anything else like rubbing against the wall.

>>384292517
Yes infact you had to have the map you you really wanted to beat the game in that day and age because much like Final Fantasy the game is incredibly vague.

>>384292010
Testicle rocks and maybe I would've got it

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This shit came with the game people. Right in the box.

>>384296482
the two rocks in >>384290995
are not just walls on the corners of the map. That is enough to pique my curiosity.
When you start actually playing video games, you start noticing things without the devs having to go "HEY DO THIS". If you ever went off the beaten path to find an item, or walked into/hit a wall to find out it was an illusion, it was likely an "obvious wall spot"

>>384295116
I mean, I live near a pair of lakes called Spectacle Lakes and those don't really look like glasses, they're just two round things next to each other.

>>384296919
>or walked into/hit a wall to find out it was an illusion, it was likely an "obvious wall spot"
So, you just started walking towards walls in the game? Is that what constitutes as good design to you?

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I never even seen the instructions manual for LoZ. Was it a guide?

>>384296482
not the same dude but c'mon
>2 giant suspicious rock formations
it's not like zeldas overworld map is huge. theres 128 different screens

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>>384296595
and the games themselves won't have deteriorated at that point either? You might as well say everything about the game is bad at that point since at one point, we'll be dead, we won't have electricity, the Earth itself will be destroyed, we will lose the ability to see or hear.

Pretty bad game design, huh?

>>384296958
LOL

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>>384297048
>reading comprehension
No, I didn't. That's your retarded interpretation. In many games, walls exists that can be broken or walked through. These aren't walls with cracks that blatantly indicate they can be interacted with and nobody tells you to break these walls. Yet, most people that aren't retarded and/or autistic (you), do not go around checking every wall in the game and yet still manage to figure out that certain walls stand out.

Let me give you a perfect example.
>>384290995
these rocks stand out because they aren't part of the walls on the top and bottom of the map.

>>384296595
That's ACfag's justification for hating on multiplayer. You're literally using ACfag logic.

>>384298249
>Multiplayer
As long as the multiplayer has bots there's no problem.

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>>384297087
>>384297237
>Back in my day, we weren't spoonfed!
>Game manual very literally tells you exactly where to go
If they felt the need to include this much details, maybe the game just wasn't well designed to begin with.

>>384296595
Games don't need to be made to last through centuries. Some gems will be remembered, but most will parish and there is nothing wrong with that. Games are made for the here and now, not for the 40 years down the line.

>>384298554
>Games don't need to be made to last through centuries.

>>384300330
see>>384297135

>>384298462
The guide gets you either to or through the first dungeon to help you understand the thought process needed for the rest of the game.

>>384291717
>There is a secret in every screen
Not quite, thanks to engine limitations
I'd like a PZC quest like that, but it would probably boil down to getting 20 rupees by sneezing on something