How do you feel about video games implementing a "morality"

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>>384135472
I like it.
It tells you a little bit about yourself, and there's nothing more memorable that a game that gives you a good, and valuable experience.
Adds to the replay value with things like "evil runs".
I also enjoy when certain scenes, endings, and interactions require a certain morality.

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>>384135472
team fortress 2 has no morality quibbles

nothing worse than a poorly executed moral system.
it either is played safe by having really unambigous choices like in infamous (either attack protesters or destroy drugs) or it has choices that are very ambiguous and can be interpreted in one way or another but the game wants to ascribe it to either evil or good exclusively

its always a LOL YOU SHOULDNT DO EVIL THINGS

the fable games are the worst offenders of this, even with a morality system it won't let you kill plot related npcs

I love old games for this, it really added another layer to the game and made me feel like I was truly in control

in GTA4 there was no morality system, but some choices that could affect the story or not, and a few which were only for your reflection

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>>384136596
>everybody in TF2 is a variant of neutral
Is this why it's so fun?

I like it, playing as an edgelord asshole is always fun.

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>game gives cutscene moral choices, but it doesn't matter because the basic gameplay is hour upon hour of murdering people

Also known as every game ever

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>moral fags
do what you want, when you want, its that easy!

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>mfw people play video games

>>384135472
>hitchens
>morality
his brother was more moral than this contrarian loser.

>>384140792
I don't know, one is dead and the other isn't, he must be doing something right.

>>384135472
I'd prefer if Fallout games didn't have karma and the only thing you're penalized on is things people see you do, if that society doesn't like it.
Karma is dumb because different societies have different ideas of morality.

>>384135472
Pete Hitchens would make a great final boss for a rpg

>>384135472
It's completely retarded due to the way it's used. See: BioWare games, Bethesda games. They would be better off without any morality systems. Imagine if Witcher had similar morality gauges? Games would literally be ruined.

>>384136614
>very ambiguous and can be interpreted in one way or another but the game wants to ascribe it to either evil or good exclusively

End of Witcher 3 with Siri was awful with this

I like when you're presented a moral dilemma you have to think about. I don't like it being tied to tangible rewards so that you base your decision on what reward you want.

>>384135472
>choose good path
>you get a team mate with invaluable skills
>choose evil path
>you kill guy and get item thats useful for 1 hour

>>384136301
Katherine>Catherine

>>384136970
because that's what basic morality is, a normative view, which is the whole reason why evil is ... evil.
if you're told that the things "evil" people do aren't evil, then they aren't evil.
if you're taught not to do evil things in a video game because that decreases from score, etc etc etc. then you make a 2nd save file/playthrough and do them.

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>>384141967
Following your dreams > Bitches

>>384141821
Even better yet

>Choose evil path
>Get reward now
>Choose good path which requires "sacrificing power"
>Get reward later and don't lose anything

Avo's Tear in Fable: The Lost Chapters was a giant middle finger to those who picked not to kill their sister and throw away the Sword of Aeons. It wasn't even the best weapon in the game so the plot requirement for needing it was fucking stupid.

>>384135472
Exploring morality is a good thing in any medium. But making judgements on players morality through "systems" isn't a good way of handling it. Because you aren't actually exploring morality, you're enforcing it.

When you have system that rewards one behavior and punishes another, or gives different types of rewards, then you have essentially already decided what was moral and immoral before the player ever touched the controller. Also, these systems lead to gaming the system instead of actually picking based on morality since the player knows they'll likely get power or money for screwing someone and just lose things (or not get as much) but "feel good" if they help.

There is little to learn here. It's much better if the developer creates a system that doesn't judge the user, but just has different outcomes and each outcome can be manipulated either way to get more or less rewards irrespective of the choice. Then they choose what they choose because it mattered to them, not because of extrinsic reward systems. Many games tell more about the gamer just from normal gameplay than they do through morality systems.

>>384141545
What a retard you are. Removing something when it's flawed, is exactly the reason why games are shitty these days. Instead of proposing how to improve the system, you are saying that games would be better if they were dumbed down. Fuck off.

>>384141821
>>384142319
And these two responses are exactly why morality systems fail. Because most people don't care or pay any attention to the actual moral implications. They just care about gaming the system to their benefit.

>>384142241
My dream is to start a family with a cute girl that is responsible and is comitted.

Catherine<Katherine

>>384135472
If it's gonna be black and white don't bother. If you're gonna make it black and white at least make both differences matter somewhere other than the ending fucking cutscene otherwise don't bother.

>>384142736
The morality system literally dumbs those games down you clown.

I liked the Mass Effect moral options.

Honestly, the way they connected it through the games is just marvelous. Punching the reporter and her dodging it in the second game and getting rekt by the come up are some of the best scenes in vidya history.

If it actually challenges one's moral values, or actively makes alternative approaches and roleplaying rewarding in a meaningful and balanced ways, it's fine.
If it's a simple black-and-white "good guy evil guy" with no nuance or no proper catharsis and pay-off, it can go suck as cock.

Examples of morality done well:
>The Witcher games (first and second one arguably more than the third one, though even that one has it's bright moments).
TW usually presents morality as complex and nuanced problem and makes you question your own values and preferences. It makes the question of "what is the right thing to do" actually a challenge and teaches people to be careful and responsible for their own decisions.
>Pathologic
Very much the same case.
>Planescape Torment
While it's morality is largely black-and-white based, it at least offers catharsis and satisfaction and makes both choices having their own appeal, and allows for roleplaying actually fun and interesting villains.
>Fallout 1/2/New Vegas, Arcanum
Basically all work very similar way as Planscape does: either offer a more nuanced problems, or makes "non-standard" morality FUN and CATHARTIC, and actually inventing fun or creative ways in which to be evil.

Examples of games doing it completely wrong:
>Bioshock
>Dishonored
>Fallout 3
I don't think I need to explain why those are crap in great detail. Actually present you with a moral dilemma that is ALREADY SOLVED for you, while simultaneously punishing players for making their decisions, or at least no making either one, or both of the choices equally as satisfying to pull off.
That comes both with sense of being pressured and punished for taking advantage of options that the GAME ITSELF presented you with, and/or with the game presenting morality in a naive, stupid, often flat-out insulting way.
Stupid morality system can really fuck-up a game. It's bad that it became somewhat of a "staple" and tokenistic feature in games for quite a while.

Morality systems in vidya have always, or at least almost always, been lazy pieces of shit.

>>384142558
>Because you aren't actually exploring morality, you're enforcing it.
That is not necessarily a bad thing in itself either. Despite of our big deal of moral relativism, the reality is that we actually all (at least within our majoral western society) do have a general agreement on what is good and what is bad when it comes to most important and core issues. And confirming or even teaching those fundamental moral principles is normal, common part of most media and does not necessarily lessen it.

The problem is when you do it in a patronizing or silly way, or in a way that creates some form of dissonance within the player. And that is what can easily happen when, as you said, a game gives clear mechanical incentives related to the desirability of certain moral judgement: like punishing evil decisions by withholding game content in a too obvious way - like Bioshock or Dishonored tended to do. It also can happen when game attempts to present actually morally complex issues as if they were more simple than they really are: case of Bethesda's Fallout 3. It's not the pre-deterimend morality that is the core issue, it's that player will likely end up feeling insulted or cheated in the process.

Another - and perhaps more egregious issue is when games encourage commitment by rewarding extremes though. I hate that shit. When the best weapon/skill/companion is locked away behind "full Evil" or "full Good" meter requirement.
That is truly idiotic on many, many levels.

I prefer games that let you do immoral things without consequence, rather than tracking a 'morality' score.

Gta 4 is my favorite morality related game. Niko basically knows what he is, tries his best to be a good guy within the circumstances he's put in, but is still a piece of shit and knows it. No matter what he chooses he's still a broken man living a shit life unable to break the habits he's gottten accustomed to.

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>>384143001
> spout bullshit
> don't explain your reasoning

>>384145137
>call someone a retard, tell them to fuck off, create a premise based on an oxymoron, and expect a reasonable answer
pls be in london

>>384146850
> create a premise based on an oxymoron

Spouting even more pretentious bullshit doesn't make you more intelligent, you know.

When something is flawed, you tell others how to improve it, instead of removing an entire system completely, dumbing down the game. The piece of shit didn't even say what's wrong with the system in said games on the first place.

> i don't like X
> it should be removed

You should be removed.

>>384147285
The oxymoron is that you're arguing that it's possible to dumb down Fallout 3. There's also a very clear argument for removing the black&white morality system from those games in my original post.
>Imagine if Witcher had similar morality gauges
Would you like that? Hey, what if Fallout 1 and 2 did it the same was as 3? Would you like that? Addition by subtraction is a thing. Nobody needs systems that punish you for playing the game. This anon here >>384143492
Now go drink bleach. Nothing you say has value.

>>384135472
Good if done good.

Bad if done bad.

>>384148346
>Good if done good.
Name ONE (1) game

I always choose the path of good. Playing evil makes me feel guilty

Did we just get wiped? Twenty replies are gone.

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>>384135472
Stop consuming wicked poisons and stop playing violent computer games

I prefer reputation systems with different factions reacting differently to your actions.

I quite liked what Obsidian did in Pillars of Eternity, though it wasn't as well realised as it could've been. Basically there were a number of dispositions that represented your general reputation and how people percieved you, such as Stoic, Cruel, Passionate, Benevolent etc. Then there was faction specific reputation which you gained by doing things they approve of.

>>384135472
Who would win in a fight Peter Hitchens vs Jordan Peterson?

morals are a spook

My favorite approach to it is what recent indie games have done. Not to harp on that one YouTube guy's video, but stuff like Papers Please, Darkest Dungeon, This War Of Mine do the best job because the morality stuff there is directly tied into the actual game payoffs themselves rather than be a separate system all in its own where choices are more black n white or it's just cool philosophical stuff that has no direct effect on the game aspect at all.

>>384148250
Ah, it's just another Fallout 3 hating post with no argument at all.

the watch dogs system was arguably the worst. playing the game like any open world game with guns and cars lands you in the worst ranking in like thirty minutes, and you can't go to stores to resupply or get food without having the cops on you immediately.

>>384152259
Jordan Peterson is at the top of the dominance hierarchy

>>384135472
As long as its not used a mouthpiece for the devs to spread a subjective social/political message at the expense of the moral ambiguity of game writing and decisions

Examples of morality done wrong (using fallout as an example)
-Tennypenny tower ghouls
-killing house and NCR members, even when provoked is bad karma
-killing Caesar and Legion members, even unprovoked is good karma

>>384150220
That's what I would call misguided moderation. The jannie or mod is sticking to the letter and deleting off-topic replies, which results in the thread dying. What was the purpose of cleaning it up, then?