Are features like Witcher sense or Detective vision an admission

Personally I think it is yes, especially when a game is over reliant on using it and you can't get through the game without activating it

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Yes

>>384123475
No, because they're just there to make up for a lack of technology.
You wouldn't say turn based games are an admission of poor game design, would you.

>>384123475
On the one hand, I do see what they were trying to do, showing a distinctive superhuman set of senses. Also, compared to some similar sequences in TW2 (following that elf hunter's blood trail through the forest) it is a hell of a lot more practical than activating a pulse of your medallion each time you don't immediately see where you're meant to go.

At the same time they should have done something more inventive than copying detective vision from the Batman games. I do wonder, if they've worked up any alternative systems before deciding on that one, what the others might have been like.

ITT people who don't understand that the Witcher is about Geralt, not them

>>384123475
If it's the main point of the game, then yes. In the Witcher's case it is used sparingly and between combat, dialogue, exploration etc. It isn't that bad.

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>>384123934
remove gothic-fag from /v/ already.
nobody cares about fetching shit in different ways, when its just shitty fetchquests in the end. As much as people don't give a shit about having to ask literally every person to proceed with a quest

>>384123475
It's to cater to the lowest common denominator so people don't feel dumb because they can't follow simple instructions.

Yeah it's bad but that's how it is these days.

>>384123475
yea, they're pretty shit.
but like most games now, they have to cater to the casual degenerate.

>>384125409
The real question I'm asking myself when I see these threads is, if gothic fag will ever cease to be buttblasted that the mediocre gothic is being forgotten while TW3 is unironically one of the best games ever made.

>>384123475
yes
unfortunately it's a sign of the times, and it appeals to the casual gamers. Projekt Red probably couldn't be bothered wasting time making it a difficulty setting, either.

>>384123475
Well, it is a RPG after all. The player isn't supposed to be the one with detective vision™. Although I gues they could had made it a bit more subtle.

>>384125717
>the gameplay, quest design and exploration are garbage on purpose!
Amazing argument

>>384123475
>starting 3 identical shitty bait threads
mods ban pls

>>384124085
>literal glowing arrows showing you which way to go
what a nonsensical argument. They are there because the devs were too lazy to actually invest time in making the game engaging. Also the playerbase is unfortunately too stupid to figure things out unless their hands are held the entire way. Remember the story of the playtester who walked in circles for thirty minutes?

>>384123475
no because witcher's have superhuman senses which is explained in great detail throughout the game and makes them great trackers and hunters

The thing that pisses me off about the Gothic spam is that G1 and 2 are legitimately great games and among the best examples of open world done right instead of just making a giant sandbox randomly filled with collectibles
A few more months of this bullshit and everyone will think I'm making a joke when recommending Gothic

>>384125679
Another gothic nigger here: I also like the witcher series.
You guys just love to shitpost that one game is superior to another to make fans mad. I wonder why no one posted goldface memes yet.

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>>384125679
>TW3
>one of the best games ever made
Within 5 years it will be forgotten. Screencap this.

>>384123934
How many copy did Gothic sold actually? How many critic said it was goty?

I'm not saying Witcher got better quests. Your example is alright, but Witcher is ultimately better than the sum of it parts. Skyrim too. Gothic clearly wasn't.

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>>384123475
yes
expect when japan does it obviously
then its the perfect streamlining the series has needed the entire time
all hail glorious nippon

>>384126326
I remember something about 3 millions including the whole series.

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>>384126406
IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR
IT SHOULD'VE BEEN ON THE SWITCH
IT LOOKS LIKE GARBAGE ANYWAY

>Zelda of all fucking games got rid of quest markers for everything bar the main quest and no dumb detective vision

>>384126406
Literally everybody was mad beyond reason when they showed us this.

>>384124694
Then don't make a fucking RPG about the guy.

>>384125679
Be more subtle with your bait

P5's detective sense really trivialized a lot of the dungeons to "press L1 and see if any exclamation points are nearby". Shame considering P5 has some great dungeons, especially compared to P3 and 4. At least it doesn't get in the way of the combat or social aspects.

Yes it is, one of many that litter W3.

>>384124085
>>No, because they're just there to make up for a lack of technology.
What does technology have to do with anything? It's an innovation problem not a technological one.
>>You wouldn't say turn based games are an admission of poor game design
What the fuck does that even mean? What does that have to do with the topic at hand? What an ass-backwards false equivalency.

>>384125409
>nobody cares about fetching shit in different ways, when its just shitty fetchquests in the end
>nobody cares about playing the game in different ways, when it's just pressing buttons in the end

>>384126326
>How many copy did Gothic sold actually? How many critic said it was goty?
In that case I guess FIFA and CoD are the greatest games of all time

>>384126503
>all complaints = Nintendo
>ponies must mamaru Sony
>make fools of themselves
SAD!!!!!!!!!

>>384123475
It's been a bad way to implement witcher senses, but then again, explaining how a witcher actually sees/hears things would be a bit like explaining colors to a blind person. You're supposed to see, hear and overall notice more, better and sooner than a normal person, but I think using it for mundane shit like footprints or the smell of booze is going a bit overboard

>>384123934
Really want to play Gothic 2. How playable is it today and are there any mods or fixes that are essential?

>>384127726
It's pretty hit or miss, depending on how well you can get used to the clunky combat system. The directx11 mod is constantly said to be a must, and if you actually buy it, get the gog version

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>>384127839
Thanks brah.

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>>384127726

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>>384128090
Awesome thanks. Looks like I'll be playing the gog version with the dx11 mod then.

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>>384126295
see you in five years

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>>384129164
Actually gonna do it, the absolute madman

>>384123475
Depends if the goal is the investigation part or what's at the end of the trail.

>>384126295
People have been saying that since release and yet it's still talked on a daily basis thanks to either falseflag and shitposting or genuine interest.

How about we change the topic to video games with good controls? That way, the Gothicfag will have to leave :^)

>>384133575
but then so will the witcherfags

>>384123934
I've started playing tW2 and while it's not deep liek that, it doesn't have the superradar and the arrows either

why did that change?

>>384123475
Not at all. It makes perfect sense business wise. The average dudebro will drop the game immensely fast if the game he's playing does not hold the hand enough. By including the "witcher senses", you have a larger potential customer base.

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>>384123934
Refute this gothictard.

>>384134354
For wider appeal and to make it easier to fit linear quests into a huge open space, probably

>>384126642
Elaborate

>>384123475
You need witcher senses because you wouldn't be able to follow footprints if it's only visible in the ground texture, unless you play in first person view, can zoom at details, are ok with spending 30 minutes to move like 500m and the footprint don't go through high grass or anything that would hide them. Also, how would you follow a scent if there's no visual indication.

You (Geralt) have superhuman senses and so you use them to resolve quests that's all. It's often poor design because those detective vision systems don't make sense in the lore and/or they are just there for casuals for example seeing people through walls in a Thief game instead of listening to the noise they make, but it this particular case, no, it's not bad design.

>>384126295
It'll be remembered as one of the most important game of this generation, there is clearly a before and an after Witcher 3, you can already see that with all the open world games that came after and took inspiration from it. It also opened the eyes of some Bethesdrones so that's a good thing.

I don't consider TW3 to be one of the best games ever made but we need to see things as they are: it had an enormous impact and will be remembered amongst the big names.

>>384126547

The beyond reason part is right. Actually finding the monster on the map has never been a core aspect of Monster Hunter and given that the "open world" maps in World are still segmented by narrow corridors often times it doesn't seem like the game will be anywhere near as focused on exploration as many people are thinking. I started playing MonHun on Nintendo and am playing through Gen right now, but I'm still excited for World assuming they don't cheap out on the monster count and that it feels like a full game.

>>384123475
No, it's a thing necessary to gain profit from the brainless modern gamer crowd. Blame capitalism and modernity.

>>384126547
>>384126406

Go to options and turn it off. Because you can.

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What did people think about the "go this way" button in Dead Space?

>>384123475
It's an admission that you have little faith in your target audience.

Unfortunately, just turning it off or not using it usually isn't an option because the game is designed to be balanced around its use.

I feel the same about games that throw hundreds of trash mob enemies at you in lieu of interesting fights are no better. When I got done with Horizon, I checked my stats and laughed at the outright genocide I made that little ginger commit...

>>384125409
>just shitty fetchquests in the end

every quest boils down to either fight/kill, find, tell, listen, bring, go and stuff like that

it's just that in gothic you usually get multiple different ways to go about it and multiple different outcomes and all of that without any handholding while still getting a clear idea about what the player has to do

>>384135490
It's all the same, games have been doing that for years, both as help and as a mandatory mechanic.

>>384135490
t's only natural for engineers to have a map of the ship that would get them to the problem they need to fix.

>>384135856
it's also natural for a mutant with enhanced senses to be able to track things better than the player

still doesn't excuse it

>>384123934
>Never played Gothic/Gothic 2 or The Witcher series.
>Ask about The Witcher, to see if it's any better past that start in the swamp, or if I should just play Witcher 2. (I like to start at the beginning.)
>Within SECONDS this dude shows up in my thread and starts talking about Gothic 2.

Alright, 9 times out of 10? I assume the autism-meme on /v/ is just a joke. After having been here through a lot of different tripfags, the days of Chicken, Tortanic, etc... This is the first time I've ever truly believed someone with severe autism has actually been posting, and not just someone shitposting to the nth degree.

>>384136137
I have posted this image for the first time in like 2 moths, so if you think it's just one person posting it then you're wrong

>>384123934
Fucking saved, great image. That shit really is fucking unacceptable in RPGs especially. Witcher 3 was overrated.

>>384136310
Okay. So it's just a bunch of other people on /v/ all deciding to start praising Gothic 2, all at the same time.

Devil's advocate: Old games have simpler graphics so visual clues stand out more. When you have photo-realistic foliage it's hard to tell if some random white speck is actually relevant.

>>384136381
gothic 2 was praised on /v/ since the beginning of /v/. Only recently it's being praised more than usual

>>384136018
How is an actual explanation given to incorporate gameplay mechanics not reasonable?

How the fuck would you implement a Witcher's heightened senses?

Witcher 3 is literally Assassin's Creed with a twist. And the twist is that developer is cool to like on shit places like /v/.

>>384136649
I've seen Gothic praised in the past. Every now and again. But the past 3 or 4 weeks? I've seen shit about Gothic 2 every fucking day. I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that's not just some sperglord continuously posting.

ITT: people don't understand what an RPG is

>>384136381
They're not praising Gothic 2. They're just shitting on TW3 comparing one of its features to a game they probably never played or didn't like at all.

That said, I've never touched Gothic 2 but I also never fancied the witcher sense thingy.

>>384125409
Just play Gothic 2 already, you stupid faggot. He's right.

>>384123475
Yes. I really enjoy it when games lay out the instructions on what to do in a "natural" way, since it helps with immersion. "Batman senses" detract from the experience.

>>384125679
>TW3 is unironically one of the best games ever made
If by best game ever made you mean spent the most on advertising, then yes, you are correct. Game design wise it is a fucking travesty, though.

>>384136381
>deciding to start

Nigga, Gothic and Gothic 2 have been RPG classics on /v/ for ages, among others like VtMB and Arcanum. How fucking new are you? People just rarely talk about it since it's old as shit and there's nothing left to discuss.
I miss when only TW1 was out and we could have civil threads about all sort of RPGs together without any shitposting rivalries though.

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>>384136808

Witcherkeks, watch and learn. This is how you make an open world game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVYrALStucs

>>384136381
Gothic has always been praised, dude. Its just being praised LOUDER by one extremely vocal faggot, but at least he's showing that /v/ is infested with newfags that don't know shit about what a good game is.

>>384136808
>3 or 4 weeks
He's been doing this for months.

>people hate quest markers on a map
>it's unreasonable for your character to know where things are despite living in that world
>it's impossible for someone to point out on a map exactly where you need to go
>for some reason the character's general experience, knowledge and powers shouldn't play any role in how they proceed in a quest because that interferes with the player's "challenge"

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>>384135490
It gets points for being diegetic, like the rest of Isaac's HUD, but it's also redundant due to the (very cool imo) 3d map and the fact that there are signposts all over the levels. It may also be a bit more "necessary" in a game full of samey corridors rather than an open world that at most needs an overworld map and a compass.

So essentially, unnecessary but at least it looks cool.

>>384137018
Like I said, I don't particularly like The Witcher as of yet. I'm just saying that someone is constantly busting into other threads and just posting about Gothic 2 constantly. I've never even claimed it was bad, just that there's some super-fan running around singing it's praises constantly and it's getting repetitive.

I've yet to play it, but it's on my list. I just think it's fucking annoying as piss to see this dude post about it every day for the past couple weeks.

>>384137194
>Gothic has always been praised
Holy shit guys, I know this. I've seen it mentioned thousands of times over the years, I get it. I know it's supposed to be good. I'm literally just pointing out that there's one dude in particular who has been CONSTANTLY praising the game as the second coming of jesus in multiple RPG threads for the past few weeks, EVERY DAY.

>>384123934
i think runescape had fun quests. sure it wasn't like gothic 2, but instead of "kill x get 7 y" you were to travel all around and complete it.

or just buy it from the grand exchange like a fag.

>>384126326
>How many critic said it was goty?
>I let people like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3pQ0oO_cDE validate my opinion

>>384137168
>unironically posting the same video as seen in >>384125409

>>384136381
Nah its mostly gothic-fag that makes the threads these days. Gothic is a good game and /v/ always liked it but that fag just can't handle TW3's success and tries very, very hard.

>>384123934

this is spot on i just wish you wouldnt use the word rape like that, it really minimizes ACTUAL rape.

>>384137194
>newfags that don't know shit about what a good game is.
>He talks about Gothic 2 instead of Ultima 7.

Not sure how being a newfag on /v/ means you're a newfag to games, but okay.

>>384123475
It's to add high contrast so blind retards don't complain when they can't follow some tracks, I would prefer it removed and more effort put in to making tracks more visible but game devs are lazy.

>>384127227
Critical consensus is not ad populum you retard. Neither FIFA or CoD have broken the record for most GOTY awards.
I guess Gothic fag is starving for arguments to make such an obvious mistake...

>>384137574
I never played Gothic, but I'm also mad that TW3 is praised because it's a shit game and it's only popular because of how easy and casual it is.

This basically shows you how fucking garbage video game industry has become

>>384134810
>It make sense in the lore therefore it's good game design
>It's ok if batman games are super casuals because batman is not supposed to lose
>It's ok if Fallout 3 is full of fucking nothing because it's supposed to be a wasteland

>>384137168
>this is how you make a small gated world filled with one fetch quest after another
FTFY

>>384137823
Played TW3 after trying to play TW1.
Atleast those guys got their shit together, though. That first game made Mass Effect 1 look like a fucking masterpiece.

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>>384137903
>It make sense in the lore therefore it's good game design
This is correct though

>>384137823
>TW3 is praised because it's a shit game
Ahh TW3, the contrarian's fine wine

I'm 50/50 on detective vision.
On one hand it pushes the plot forward quickly and there tend to be enough gaps in the tracks that you have to use your brain, on the other it's handholding as fuck.
If I could come up with a better mechanic I would but anything more than what it is now would probably just turn into repetitive grind.

>>384137943
ME 1 IS a fucking masterpiece ur faggot.

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>>384137823
>being this jaded

>>384138096
I've replayed ME1 about 4 times now. And everytime I enjoy myself, and try some new shit? But it's hardly a masterpiece. It's a goddamn mess, in some places.

>>384123934
I remember a dev at Project Red saying in an interview that they really liked BotW because "You went somewhere because you wanted to explore there, not because a marker told you to"

>>384138003
Very superficial opinion.
If the lore get in the way of the gameplay it's some shitty lore.

>>384138331
>Geralt should only be able to identify clues that that random nerds with no outdoor experience can find despite that leading to the contradictory result that a witcher isn't needed for those investigations

>>384137472
>I know it's supposed to be good
>I'm literally just pointing out that there's one dude in particular who has been CONSTANTLY praising the game

So what's the problem?

Why does Geralt, the badass monster hunter have to grind and level up for hours before being able to defeat shitty nekkers?

And especially when he was able to destroy everything in TW2 and there was nothing that explained why he would suddenly become a piece of shit again?

They're a result of having realistic graphics. There's too much noise in the screen to make the relevant things stand out. If you have cartoony or PS1 graphics you don't need them.

>>384138331
If Geralt, a medieval superhuman freakazoid, didn't have the "Witcher senses" vision and the player just had to track footprints by eye what would be the point in making the character something other than a normal human? How the fuck else would you convey tracking smell in a video game?

>>384137712
Is Ultima 7 really that good, though? I replayed it recently and still feel like there are way better RPGs from that era. I believe Ultima Underworld came out right around the same time and it is WAY better. Krondor, Dark Sun, and Xeen are from that era and I think they are better as well.

>>384123934
Jokes on you. I turned off the hud + minimap for witcher 3

>>384138527
see
>>384137109
I've never seen someone outside of VN waifu fags go this overboard with posting about a single thing, let alone going into other threads and trying to kill discussion about another game just to parrot their obsession. He's like that kid back in middle school who sneaks his way into a discussion just so he can talk about what movies/music/games he likes. No one liked that fucking kid. It's like if he naturally evolved into a 4chan user.

>>384123475
They are an inevitability of a detailed world. You can't follow foot decals through a grassy forest.

>>384139000
>see
Still not seeing a problem. We have nintendo threads over the same shit every minute of every day (mostly porn) and it doesn't even seem to register with most people. Should we stop that as well? Because I'd be game for that.

>>384138962
It depends on what you're looking for. If you want a good dungeon crawl with great stats/systems? Underworld is fucking tits. Hard to find stuff better. Krondor is great too.

But for that really engrossing, Molyneux-tier "DO ANYTHING!" feeling? Ultima 7 and the XP are fucking great. I played them for the first time about 6 years ago, and still think about how much fun I had with them half a decade later.

Same goes for Daggerfall. Played that when I was younger, but can't seem to get it running worth a shit on modern systems. That's a game I'd love to play through again.

>>384139062
>detailed world
>cannot recognize small details

I think the word you are looking for is pretty. Witcher 3 is not detailed. Its surface level polish.

>>384139184
There's a difference between a circlejerk and someone who goes around posting in every vaugely related thread in order to try and derail it into his subject

>>384139208
>Same goes for Daggerfall. Played that when I was younger, but can't seem to get it running worth a shit on modern systems. That's a game I'd love to play through again.

http://wiwiki.wiwiland.net/index.php?title=Daggerfall_:_DaggerfallSetup_EN

Zero setup required. Will run on anything.

>>384123475
Not when used properly.
But if you mostly fill the game with 'follow the supersense' quests then yes.
Makes for boring experience.

>>384139391
People wouldn't take the bait if it wasn't relevant. You're probably just a butthurt witcherfag.

>>384138484
>>384138758
If this piece of lore lead to shitty unfunny gameplay then you leave it out, or try to find a way to make it fun.
How do you make smelling a fun mechanic?
Certainly by not making a shit-trail you follow without any challenge.

>>384139481
>Come into thread about Witcher.
>Anonbro lead me back to Daggerfall.
Proof that all of /v/ isn't shit. Thanks man.

>>384139604
Do you want a smelling minigame instead?

>>384123475
It's like the stealth in P5: it was never meant to be anything major, as it was never the central focus.

>>384139328
Games aren't real life. You can't move video game grass aside to inspect what is underneath. Foliage and decals are diametrically opposed when it comes to visibility. Of you see one, chances are you cannot see the other. The alternative is dedicating a unique asset to trod through grass or foliage which would make following much easier than having to take direction and distance into account when tracking footateps.

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>>384137813

Your point is invalid since every year more and more goty awards are given, and new games will break records for most goty awards just for the fact that there's more awards.

You fucking retard, go and research how many goty awards existed on the year that Gothic was released and compare them to the year that Witcher 3 was released and then kill yourself.

>>384139563
>you don't like people derailing threads?
>you must be a hardcore fanboy for whatever the original thread was about
Come on man if you actually believe this you are part of the reason /v/ remains such a shithole for actual discussion.

>>384139742
Again, you don't understand. Witcher 3 sacrifices detail to look pretty. Why are graphicsfags so retarded?

>>384139563
And the veil drops.
So just a question - How lonely are you? I mean, do girls get even more skeezed out when you start sperging about an early-00's PC RPG? I imagine it's not easy to form lasting relationships already, due to your overwhelmingly horrid inability to discuss anything modern or relevant.

>>384139985
I think you might be retarded

>>384135259
That doesnt stop the game from being built around players using it. Now you're just bumbling around with no actual tracking mechanisms.

>>384140048
>reading this thread.
>Gothicfag vs. Guy who hates Gothicfag.
>People discussing Witcher graphics instead of mechanics.
>Discussion about grass displacement and tracking.
>Random anon helps other random anon relive his fun in Daggerfall.
>"UR RETARD."
>"NO U."

Fucking hell, /v/. Never change.

>>384139956
>you don't like people derailing threads?
But he's not derailing it. He is comparing the topic game's design to a design in another game, which is better. This is why /v/ is shit. Everyone cries about golden standards because it prevents them from discussing shit games. We should pull janitors for a few days and just let the autists purge the board of objectively shit taste.

>>384140254
Yes and the two simultaneous witcher hate threads with the same images posted by the same people are definitely not shitposters. Maybe you should wake up and figure out how bad you make this board.

>>384140238
And /v/ never will change because this is the standard of discussion, it either collapses into calling eachother faggot or gets derailed into a thread about anything but video games.

>>384140525
>Yes and the two simultaneous witcher hate threads with the same images posted by the same people
Just report the duplicate thread. This isn't rocket science.

>>384140736
That doesn't do anything because /v/ is a garbage fire and the mods no longer even attempt to reign it in. A similar situation to the simultaneous witcher shitposting has existed since 2015 and I think it will continue existing for as long as this board exists, it may switch games but autists making the same bait threads once or twice a day is just the norm.

>>384126503
DELETE THIS RIGHT NOW

>>384135490
it makes sense in DS1 considering each levels have branching paths
it doesn't in DS2 since the game is already linear enough
still haven't played DS3

>>384123934
spbp

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>>384140034
what

If we didn't have witcher senses we wouldn't be playing as Geralt.

Witcher senses are in simply because Geralt is the main character, you don't use senses as Ciri. Same reason as why Batman has the technology to see that shit, he's the fucking batman.

It's not poor game design it's just the game trying to give you the feeling of playing as Geralt.

>>384126326
That's a retarded metric for determining quality and you know it. Gothic came out well before video games were accepted by mainstream society, and copies sold literally means nothing in regards to a game's quality.

>>384126326
You are a fucking underage idiot.

>>384126295
It's already been out for 2 and people still like it.

I don't understand the complaint. Geralt is a tracker correct, so he has incredible senses that aid him in this? So it makes sense that you could sort of see how HE sees the world

>>384123475
Only in games where it makes zero sense. The most recent one being Days Gone.

A normal biker type guy surviving in a zombie something filled world? Give him detective vision that totally makes sense!

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I'm among the people who have often defended TW3 in many threads (I think that the Witcher sense is indefensible, though, I was in this thread mostly to see if someone was able to come up with a reasonable argument to defend it), and I'm also among the people who enjoyed lurking those "it's time to discuss the best rpg ever" gothic threads and I'm playing gothic 1 now because of them. There is nothing wrong with those threads, they are normal threads with people talking about what they liked about the game with often a lot of bickering with morrowind fans. Just an average and short not-shitposting thread, which means it's infinitely better than 80% of the thread of this board since 8/10 threads here are pure and simple rabid shitposting. The point is, if those threads trigger you so much that you needed to hijack this thread, banning you would be an infinitely better service rendered to this shithole than deleting those threads.

>>384142121
>>384143919
Lore is used to enhance the gameplay,not the opposite retards
When a board that shits on every game that has quest marks,batman senses and poor combat mechanics proceed to defend W3 you know something is wrong.

>>384144820
>/v/ is a hivemind

Also, the lore enhances the story not the gameplay. The devs are the ones who should enhance the fucking gameplay not what the book wrote.

>>384144820
It's funny how people are fine with games not being realistic but now they are keeping saying "what should have they done THAT'S THE LORE BABY", like that has ever being a sort of unbreakable physics rule.

>>384145375
physics law*

The Witcher sense does make sense in some regards, specifically following scent trails. How do you convey that in a purely visual medium?