You know what really pisses me off about Breath of the wild?

I agree, the game's structure is very weak. The only thing pushing you to continue on with the story or finish the game is your own willpower, by itself it's not compelling.

>>383991279
Nigga did you forget twilight princess? It was even worse then, Ganon appeared literally out of nowhere, and kicked a good villian to the curb

>>383991279
>BotW feels... empty
Bullshit

>>383991279
Don't you free the divine beasts from his control? Whats the difference

>>383991279
>you learn about the world and engage with ganon or his underlings narratively
Not even fucking once. In all of the games the plot tied to him is so damn thin he feels just as shoehorned in. They should just ditch ganon

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>>383991358
Ganon's arrival was the typical "I was behind the villain the entire time," but it still built up the proper steps to make me care for it.

You know how I would have done Botw's story? I would have made it so the player starts in the war between ganon and Hyrule so you can build a connection between the player and the characters. Have him speak to the four guardians, interact with them, as well as Zelda. Get them invested. Then show Ganon. Make him have a character. Whether beast or humanoid, make him actually seem menacing. Then have it where you go through the part where shit is going down and Ganon is fucking everyone's up day. That way, the transition from then to now through sleep would seem a lot more impactful.

Then the next thing I would do is actually place something in the world to make the player build up again to the realization that the land is fucked up. In fact, the world of Botw is far too fucking nice for a place occupied by the Demon King. In Ocarina of Time or the dark world in the snes zeldas, ganon controlled that world. Everything was desolate, monsters were everywhere, and the very sky was corrupted. In Botw, you felt not a lick of any of this danger. The only ominous thing was the blood moon, and that lasts for like a second.

>>383991437
Difference is that in Botw, you're simply taking a broom and cleaning the divine beasts out. Not to mention, neither of the beasts are as epic as the story tried to make them. Their insides were were very basic obstacles.

>>383991571
The point is the world is not occupied by him though, he was contained. The fucked up place is easily castle town

And I don't see any proper steps in TP as compared to BOTW. They both captured something you want to free. Why the double standard?

>>383991648
There is no double standard. In Tp, your villain is zant. Your occupation is his twilight army. This isn't about when Ganon comes it. It's about giving a damn about what I'm fighting. Whether it was Zant or Ganon. In Botw, I gave zero shits cause the game does a poor job building up the importance of it.

>>383991623
So what's the difference? In other games you just get something from the dungeons. In breath of the wild you restore them. Hell the cleaning up has much more impact than clearing the other dungeons

>>383991279
>Ganon's minions

Haven't even been a thing since OoT anyway. Ganon never feels involved, he's always there and the monsters are just monsters that almost always have nothing to do with him. Closest you get to a "minion" is Zant, and we saw how much people just LOVED that turn out.

>>383991724
I disagree. I don't see why you don't care about the races in BOTW compared to the citizens of TP. There is even a greater impact seen to them in botw as compared to TP. The only part where TP tries is the twili people, and even so you don't give a shit about them as you never met them before

>>383991738
>ocarina of time
>go into temple to purge the evil within
>the temple has a story in both its visuals and its introduction
>the place is well constructed to make you realize the corruption bestowed through it. Going through to find that great evil takes effort, and is what gets the player connected to said activity

You know, the basic ideas behind building player investment, a trait Nintendo use to be very good at.

>>383991738
The difference is he has nostalgia for TP and was fooled into thinking that aesthetic = content, like 90% of people complaining that the game is repetitive.

>>383991279
Link, lets see you grit those teeth!

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>>383991279
>Ganon isn't the ultimate goal of your adventure, just something in your to-do list

>>383991648
Not him but you're being incredibly disingenuous, Twilight Princess had a plot, it had plenty of build-up. Just because Zant is replaced by Ganondorf (who was heavily foreshadowed halfway through the game) doesn't mean the story disappeared.

>>383991738
If it was like Majora's Mask where completing the dungeons had a very obvious impact on the world you'd be right, but they don't. The world is pretty much exactly the same. You don't unlock any new content. At most they were a small inconvenience to the people living next to them. It's not a big deal.

>>383991790
Ganon interacted in the WW by himself. In SS, he used Giraghim, though I will sub in Ganon for the Demon King. In TP, it was Zant.

You need that protag villain interaction or else you have no reason to care. Nor does it build a proper narrative.

>>383991843
Effort? Really go try replaying it. It's even easier than breath of the wild with a less impressive lead up. The visuals of the beasts also make it obvious they are corrupted and it noticeably changes when it is cleaned. The divine beasts are also much more grounded in the world as compared to the other zeldas, where they feel out of place and unrealistic. BOTW is the first game to actually try to explain the creation of those dungeons

I really have no idea what you are talking about

>>383991921
You do have a reason beyond "hurr durr he's so evil, look at him talk". You see the damage he caused through the memories, hell you even walk through those damaged areas

>>383991885
I thought he was talking about OOT's temples? They had even less of an impact

>>383992028
That goes back to OP's point though, the world is not really all that damaged. If anything it's the most prosperous Hyrule has ever been. The castle's gone but every other settlement is thriving.

Also the memories are an incredibly weak storytelling device, they have very little relevance to what you're doing in-game, it's just some poorly written backstory about characters you don't really care about. They would have been much more effective if they were relevant to the actual plot.

>>383991953
Yes, it took more effort to clear the dungeons in past zeldas than it did in Botw. The divine beasts were just shrines that gave you a final boss power up and nothing else. You can skip them if you want, too. There's absolutely nothing invoking about completing them. Not to mention the journey inside them is very underwhelming.

And there's nothing wrong with explaining the places Link travels through (I dont equate divine beasts to dungeons. They're all just optional mini games). The past zeldas used spatial space and visuals to tell the story of an area without you telling them explicitly. The water temple, for instance, was used as a place for worship for the zoras. The fire temple was the same for the Gorons. Ice Palace was a palace that someone built in that climate and is now overran by monsters. The reason is implicit. It doesnt make the divine beasts better.

>>383992028
>wake up from the shrine
>walk out into this world thats beautiful
>few ruins here and there, but nothing really feeling out of place
>even the monsters seem to be minding their own business and talking with each other
>no town gives a single fuck about the world around them.
>some old guy now tells you to go free Zelda from Ganon

In that position, you have about zero reasons to go save Zelda or defeat Ganon except maybe for some prime pussy. But being Link and watching those memories as a player, it doesnt give me any incentive to free this bitch. In fact, it makes me realize more how shallow the game's connections are. I'm literally watching memories. Not engaging with a single person in real time.

>>383992171
>place for worship
>difficult as fuck to navigate and requires numerous keys found in chests locked behind puzzles
They make 0 sense, and literally conflicts with what we are told

>>383992167
None of the settlements are thriving. The Gerudo have walled themselves off in fear of the beast, the Gorons are reduced to eating low quality rocks and the Zora are plagued with worry about the flooding and how it will impact trade. Even the rito can't fly too high or they will be zapped

And the memory has tons of relevance. It sets up the backstory and why the world is what it is in the first place. I don't see how it has no relevance

>>383992389
>None of the settlements are thriving. The Gerudo have walled themselves off in fear of the beast
>gerudo are not only trading with a town a mile away from their village, they are seal surfing for fun across the desert. And some are even walking through the word as travelers.

>>383992308
I actually don't see much of the difference between memories and real time. Usually real time interaction in zelda games is a dialogue box, the more important ones are always reserved to cut scenes

The townspeople do worry about the world around them, you can hear plenty of complaints

>>383992435
you do realize that the traded town is on the other side of the beast right, and the seal surfing is also tucked away. They literally cannot go in the direction of the divine beast

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>>383991279
The thing that burns me on the most about BotW is just the overall wasted potential with its story and characters. A lot of characters had amazing designs, but outside of that, they're barely memorable. It really doesn't help how poor the voice acting is.

>>383992486
There is a big difference between real time and memories. One is actual interaction with the player, and the other is as important as putting text in a journal and telling the player to read it for additional lore. Meeting with Zelda in Lttp and meeting with the salesman in MM are important ineraction segments that are needed to establish the important of their relationship and describe exactly why the stakes are.

And little of the townspeople complain. Very little. Most of them usually complain about some minor problem in their village or asking you to go fetch something for them. There is zero fear going through any of these towns. Not even Fort Hateno, which was formerly a defense against the guardians, is active anymore. People are literally just living like with no care in the world.

>>383992534
>you do realize that the traded town is on the other side of the beast right
No it isnt. It's literally down the stretch of the desert. The beast is off to the side of the path between the town. The beast doesnt even come near anyone to cause a problem. Thats how insignificant the "problems of ganon" are in this game.

>>383992619
>meet white bird dude
>he's clearly very important
>instead of establishing a relationship, he goes "hey do this one test then you can help me take down the divine beast." Done.

Then you never interact with him again. It's even more sad that the elder of the birds hardly had a role other than to tell you about the white bird. Despite the Zora king saying a lot more lines than almost everyone in the game, he ends up becoming useless directly after that.

>>383992435
Seal surfing for recreation is literally locked until you beat the Divine Beast of the area.

>>383992635
Really? I often hear at least 2 people in each town complaining about the world around them as one of the lines, even when it has been 100 years and they should be used by it already. Travellers also frequently complain about the monsters or guardians attacking them

>>383992765
It still doesnt stop people from seal surfing to town and back to the village. And it definitely didnt stop any of the gerudos from traveling out to the world. In fact, no one should be able to travel for a world that is under Ganon's terror. Oh wait, there isn't any.

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>>383992753
>Teba has a great voice
>Is the most underutilized and immediately forgotten about as minigame fodder

>>383992680
The beast is coming though, as many of the townspeople state

>>383992837
>In fact, no one should be able to travel for a world that is under Ganon's terror. Oh wait, there isn't any.

So which Zelda are you describing this time?

>>383992797
>man, the world is so dangerous
>btw, can you go grab me some apples and a little wood? My brother needs it for so and so. I'mma keep running around here now cause I'm ssooooo scared

>>383992837
The world is not under ganon's terror, that's the point. The divine beasts and the guardians are the problem, Also why can't they sand surf? It's the most efficient way of travelling across sand. And tense times encourage people to venture out, not keep them in.

>>383992880
>beast never comes

>>383992908
>the world is dangerous
>someone help me do something because I am scared to do it myself
Makes perfect sense

>>383992902
All of them basically?

>>383992952
>The divine beasts and the guardians are the problem
Except the old man specifically says that Ganon is the problem. You learn that literally the way to end ganon's reign is to just go beat him right then and there.

>>383992972
You stopped it from coming. That's the point niggah.

>>383993012
>someone help me do something because I am scared to do it myself
more like everyone are lazy bastards and nintendo just wanted to give a reason to give fetch sidequests to pad the game

>>383993080
Basically whatever fits your narrative. It makes sense for someone to be scared to do something and ask others to do it for him

>>383993023
Unreliable narrator. He obviously wants his daughter saved ASAP thus nudge you towards it

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>>383992972
>approach guardian beast because why not it'd be fun to dick around at its ankles or something

>mfw

>>383993190
>Unreliable narrator. He obviously wants his daughter saved ASAP thus nudge you towards it
>owl in past games
>hey, before you can set out to save the world, you might want to do the following task first just to prepare yourself
>botw, gives the player no kind of direction or incentive. just go beat ganon

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I'm hoping that someday we'll get to talk to Ganon outside of his usual role. They can't all be born or turn out bad, and if we're going by the established Skyward sword canon, it's not even his fault, just the curse of Demise reincarnating over and over with the hero and the princess there to stop him.
>>383991571
i would've separated malice from Dorf/Ganon/whatever his name would be when he's not evil, and have him interact with l=Link in a meaningful way. Pic related would be amazing, where's he's a mentor, but he could also be a champion in line with the story, and sacrifice himself by becoming the calamity even though he's a good person within. You could easily write some reason why he'd need to become the beast calamity, maybe to spare other from the same fate, maybe it wouldn't get sealed unless it was in his vessel, maybe the calamity would be much worse or bigger, maybe even poison the land if not contained or possessing Ganon's body. tl;dr being born the only Gerudo male/king in so and so years is a raw deal.

>>383993318
Actually he advises Link to head to the east to find Kakariko, where Impa will help him.

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>>383993464
Or they could have just made him the crux of Gerudo rule to give that land more lore richness cause it was desperately needing it. Botw could have been a much better game in a whole lot of areas, but I have a feeling after we got SS, Nintendo didn't want to put any effort into making an epic tale any longer. We can only hope that Nintendo decides to give us a zelda game again one day. Botw should have been a spin off, not a mainline game. Now we have to wait another five or so years for another console zelda that may or may not fix this.

>>383993524
Oh yes, Impa. IMPA! Now if there was ever a lazy npc, she is definitely the one. NO ONE in the sheikah village helps you in your quest. Impa only tells a story like an old granny and that is that. Then you meet her apprentice, who you think is going to journey with you to maybe help you out, but no, she's just there to walk around and get shy at you.

What a fucking joke.

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>>383993464
Another picture related to my hopes for nice Ganon. Link being raised by Gerudo vai as a voe and not being told the Gerudo legend of one male being born every hundred years would be really interesting. He could be raised as a Gerudo, explained by a shift in times and values in allowing men to live with women, or adopted much like Oot.

>>383993768
what tumblr ridden shit is this

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>>383993464
What about Dorf severs himself from Demise's influence before the events of the game, creating a very weak Demise Shade who acts as a false ally to Link/Zelda with the intention of eventually re-joining his soul with Ganondorf's?

>>383993825
can we not buy into the shitty zelda timeline crap? Even Nintendo said that the historia was just a fun way of saying how the zelda timeline was connected. It's not even official.

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>>383993596
Ganondorf's an integral part of the mythos and I miss him when he's not there, or there in another form. Link to the past gives you Pig beast Ganon, Skyward Sword gets a half pass because origin story, Majora's Mask is the rare continuation of the hero's tale after defeating the wielder of the Triforce of Power but before the next cycle, as is Phantom Hourglass. Minish cap and Spirit tracks don't get a pass as Ganon should be around in both games. Maybe not the main enemy if you want Vaati and Malladus, but around.

>>383993825
Yes, anything that gives shows more of the characters. This Ganondorf is stronger than the others, or at least a more gifted warlock, able to recognize that his soul is being influenced and do something about it. What does Ganondorf want, what is he like when not possessed by the pig beast?
>>383993817
I get where you're coming from but it's something new and fresh. Seems to be japanese fanart.
>>383993885
Timelines aside, the games show that the hero princess villain triforce dynamic is always present. After the sword trial in botw, Fi is apparently in the sword.

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>>383994914
>tfw the game is so dry that I even welcome Fi's return

>>383994994
It was nice of Nintendo to include a reference to a character Hyrule Warriors invented like that.

>>383991279
that is ironic because shoehorning the Zelda themes is what really bugged me about Breath of the Wild. If Calamity Ganon ended up being a manmade threat from messing with Sheikah technology, Zelda essentially being punished by the Gods for turning them down and instead focusing on mortal-made tools such as the Guardians and the Shiekah Slate (it almost seemed like it was going to be a theme but it was just false hope), and the game being about prophecies when it had the potential to completely break away from that fucking ruined so much interesting things they could have done with the story and world.

Nintendo is afraid of making another Majora's Mask when it was the only time in the Zelda universe where the world was interesting. Instead we got the same Ganon cycle

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>>383994914
>What does Ganondorf want, what is he like when not possessed by the pig beast?

The demon pig aspect comes from Ganondorf himself, and not Demise. Demise is just a remnant force at this point.

I was thinking the Demise Shade would be like pic related- Not the actual ghost of the dead villain, but a new being created from his residual power.

>>383995368
youre not going to get a MM game again. But we're also not going to get a lttp game again, either, so we're both out of the water.

>>383991724
>the game does a poor job building up the importance of it.


>ruins everywhere
>3 villages in the whole fucking hyrule left
>long long ranch devastated
>fort destroyed
>diaries of people dying trying to figure out shrines in desperation to combat ganon

you are so full of shit you belong in a subway WC

>>383992167
>f anything it's the most prosperous Hyrule has ever been.

fuck off joseph nobody fucking cares about your shit opinion

>>383997245
>had to watch the video to make that connection
imagine being this retarded

>>383995368
Majora's Mask was interesting despite its villain, not because of it.