>let's just plop down some giant craters, fields of fire,

>>383976698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39j5v8jlndM

No, seriously, who even fucking cared about Cataclysm?

the weirdest thing about all that is that Blizzard has such a huge hard on for phasing technology at that time, but used it terribly. It was the perfect chance to show zones actually improving after questing through them.

it was pretty fucking cool at the time

the trailer was nice and the event where deathwing would fly by your area and burn everyone to death was neat

they really should have a post-cata world ready by now though, shit's old

Everything after Ulduar is shit

>>383976934
BUT THE WORLD IS IN RUINS FOREVER HUGE FIRE CHASMS GINORMOUS MAELSTROMS DECIMATED CITIES ISNT THAT SO COOL

>>383976762
>wow thread
>ffxiv post in the first few replies
why? I hardly see any wow shitposting in ffxiv threads

>>383976802
I did. It finally made me stop playing. It was great.

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>>383977276
FF11 threads get shitposted into oblivion with a certain level of fervor. Its so offensive to the ff14 players for some unknown reason.

Cata was trash.
Everything after cata is trash.
Wotlk was half trash.
Blizzard has no idea what they're doing anymore.

>>383976935
>they really should have a post-cata world ready by now though
leveling is a time fucked mess anyways, especially if you're horde and there's a new warchief every time you go back to org

>>383977580
>Everything after cata is trash.
MoP was the best expansion though.

>>383977710
No it was not, fuck you.
BC was the best expansion, and even that was a step down from vanilla.

>>383977629
Damn....I feel that pain.
I miss the simple days. Before any sort of group/dungeon/raid finder

>>383977764
all of WoW was shit

>>383977825
Get out, you don't belong here.

>>383977764
BC had shit zones and leveling was dicks

>>383977710
Why are people still trying to push this meme?

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What if the next expansion changes the entire world again, except you have ten more levels, and all of Azeroth is linked together?

You can now have your own boat, and travel all these seas, how would you feel?

>>383977864
nah, nothing you can do about it bitch fuck

your MMO was always garbage

>>383977420
But ff11 is an actually good game, while ff14 is just a good carrot on a stick simulator

>>383977580
Actijewblizzard actually. Blizzard isnt blizzard anymore. Hasnt been for a long for a long time

Cata heroics were awesome on launch. Phasing was so shit that Alliance couldn't unlock a huge part of southern Twilight Highlands. The writing was on the wall for talents, only to replace with an even shittier version of them in Legion with artifact weapons. Professions were ok, first tier of raids sucked ass. Allowing flying in oldworld killed a ton of shit. Reforging was a good addition though. All in all though, it helped kill wow as we knew it.

I think we are finally going to see changes in the new expansion. Based on leaked dialogue, we beat Sargeras at the end of Legion, and based on that Shadow Priest weapon's dialogue something related to finally beating the legion helps more old god shit awaken. This would be the perfect way to in a way "infect" Azeroth, especially since so many of the good guys are on Argus at this point in the story.

>>383976934
But they did do this. Desolace's entire campaign is based around this. So is Hyjal's. You also got places like Westfall and Worgen starting zone that have less positive outcomes as well considering how their storylines end.
>>383977002
More like everything after Ulduar is when PvE got decent. Everything before was zero mechanical complexity junk. Pre-Ulduar, every fight literally was "actually learn the mechanics, then fight is easy as shit once you know them". Compared to some encounters today, Ulduar starts to feel that way too since it was Blizzard's first mechanics intensive raid.

The whole "Cataclysm" idea is a bit silly especially considering how inconsistent the devastation is, but in a sense it's also "cool".

But Blizzard really didn't think things through with that one. While it's in a sense interesting to visit wrecked areas, the key word is on "visit". While the old world presented a sort of believable status quo before and after finishing the quests, it just doesn't make sense for goblins or Booty Bay not to clear up rubble from their city or rescue the riches from the damn statue for instance. Elements are still raging years after Deathwing is put to rest, rivers are still flooding, walls of a capital city are still broken and unattended, you name it. Moreover, the apparent passage of time from since Cataclysm took place is really inconsistent. In goblin/worgen starting areas it takes place during the quests, in some areas player enters after what presumably is hours, and in others life has sort of normalized and it must be months since the events.

And of course, the wrecked areas aren't "comfy", which was a major strength in World of Warcraft.

>>383977764
>BC
Spoken like a true wrath babby who wasn't actually there.
Keep parroting opinions you hear on /v/.

>>383978619
I liked BC way better than Vanilla. The end game was top tier.

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>>383976698
Reminder: Blizzard actually drew a fucking dick into the map of Badlands.

This is the level of arrogance they had at the end of WotLK. WoW sold itself on its world, and the screwed it up.

>>383978506
>This would be the perfect way to in a way "infect" Azeroth

So Azeroth would get even uglier?

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>>383979576

>That shitty ass quest with the dwarf, blood elf and gnome
>they all count their stories about wrecking Deathwing's shit
>you can choose to be a faggot with the blood elf

>>383978506
This, looking back a lot of people realize that executing the mechanics of shit in naxx, khara, bt, etc was all actually quite easy. The hard part was meeting the individual class competency checks, and at most levels that was ironed out by mid wrath.
Now everyone is their own fucking cog in the machine and they have to know the mechanics like the back of their hand or use add-ons to track information available through the UI in more practical ways.
>>383979324
The end game was okay if you like tank n spanks. The only fight that was really memorable was mu'uru, and that's because the tuning on it initially was really harsh, aka the individual competency checks made it hard to keep up with the damage needed in the right places.

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>>383976698
>also wipe all old quest chains, lore, and player interaction, replaced with linear action movies and PHASING

Fuck, don't remind me. Cata was where lorefags went to die and it's only gotten worse

>>383980275
What amazes me is that they couldn't even offer the courtesy of putting Vanilla in the Caverns of Time.

Imagine all the bitching about Classic Servers that would go away had they done that.

>create awesome egypt zone
>max level before you even finish the story line
>no one wants to run pyramid dungeon
>forced to run shitty desert city dungeon 1000 times.
>quit so hard from boredom you ignore MoP
>come back after MoP and realize it was the best expanion
>max level super fast and no one cares about MoP anymore
>LEGION
>SURAMAR HYPE FROM DEVS
>TIME LOCKED GATED FACTION BULLSHIT
>NEW ISLAND
>SURAMAR 2.0 but w/ demons

>>383980369
Oh, and their reasoning at the time was because they didn't want to split the playerbase, and make the world seem empty, but these dumb fucks didn't seem to factor in the entirety of Cata's leveling was geared toward solo play, with phasing basically making partying impossible.

I'm still seriously pissed that they killed 10 man raiding. The preferred way to raid for the vast majority of the player base, all gone just so the top 200 players can smash their face against Kil'jaeden for 800 wipes.

>>383976698
>>383976802
t. casual faggots that never completed heroic nu-deadmines prenerf

>>383976698
I always thought this was the rock bottom for WoW, then fucking WoD came along. God damn looking back on it all it seems like someone deliberately wanted WoW to go to shit. Such a disaster.

>>383980540
Nah, Cata is still the worst. Cata's stench still stretches into the game today.

>>383979836
>shitty
that quest was great, fuck you no fun allowed faggot

>>383980483
Honestly, this. Really, flex raiding is vastly more accessible and makes it easier to form a semi casual raiding guild, but the party size separation and difficulty settings we a big deal to lose.

>>383980591
if you think Cata wasn't great at launch you were a casual shitter that had zero heroic clears or raid progression.

>>383980678
Fuck your nostalgia about the launch of an expansion, all the shitty problems with Cata still exist the moment you step outside of Stormwind or Org.

>>383980540
jungle zones are shit in every game

I fucking loved WOD up until that faggot ass jungle grind zone and then HFC sucked ass too. It was a stupid fucking legion tie in.

Im so pissed that Ner'zhuls staff wasn't in the game as a lootable item. I'm pissed that so much of the expansion was just scrapped and we got nothing but jungle grindy times. Was absolute shit.

>>383979576
>dragon's mouth at the tip of the penis
kek

>>383980674
And flex raiding becomes completely pointless when the balancing is shit. Why bother going in with ten friends when you can get 20 randoms from group finder and make the whole thing ten times easier?

>>383980763
You know someone at Blizzard really wanted to name that "Dragon's Head," but were asked to tone it back.

>>383980725
Again, you never did the heroic or raid content. Cata was praised for its leveling zones, and Vash'jr is still the most unique zone they've made.

>>383980851
Deepholm was shit and you better not defend it

>>383980851
>Cata was praised for its leveling zones

Cata created isolated leveling experiences where you followed a singular linear quest chain that never made you step outside of the zone, and never had you party with any living people.

The visuals were fucked up. The story was fucked up. It was a shitshow. You praise Heroics, which were quickly nerfed, and ignore how Vash'jr was a nightmare for anyone who wasn't a spellcaster.

>>383980483
This change killed my guild which was one of the last lines of defense on a severely imbalanced server. The only logical response was to find a server with a bigger pool of raiders so they left.

>>383980939
Not going to, even if I liked the aesthetic. Still, only one zone was anything approaching bad.

>>383980774
Depends, sometimes fights are easier with small groups.
Some are harder with larger groups. If randos perform better than your friends your friends suck at the game, plain and simple, even in flex raiding.

>>383980448
>>create awesome egypt zone

Do nothing with it but Indiana Jones shitty reference quests.

Because of flying you arent exploring a cool vast Dessert your just jumping from point a to point b.

>>383980494
You know the prenerf cata dungeons were fun and hilarious. But lets not pretend they would have stayed fun.

Its one thing watching your server first raiding guild MT get splattered because he's mostly in quest gear because you cheesed the lock out with pvp gear.
It's another to have a pug wipe on your second alt for the 10th time on the ettin because he could just oneshot you.

And ozruck, the ettin and the faceless general were legitimately overtuned/had mechanics some classes couldn't counter.

>>383981056
>Still, only one zone was anything approaching bad.

Bullshit spouted by someone who never leveled properly in Vanilla. The fundamental way leveling was handled was the death knell indicator that WoW wanted to de-emphasize interacting with other human beings.

Phasing basically made forming a party for anything outside a dungeon impossible.

>>383981036
>quickly nerfed
Hence why I specified prenerf you casual faggot.

Launch Heroic Deadmines is still the best 5 man content they've ever made.

>never had you party
Strange, I remember doing Hyjal with my guildies and ganking everyone on the way to the finish. Must suck not having any friends :(

>story
lol

>>383981036
>Cata created isolated leveling experiences where you followed a singular linear quest chain that never made you step outside of the zone, and never had you party with any living people.

God this was the worst and Blizzard continue with this linear boring questing design. Like everything in Mop is really fun the first time. Every other time you have to go through the same linear quest chains with the breaks for the 5 minute npc conversations is just boring and unfun.

>Vash'jr was a nightmare for anyone who wasn't a spellcaster.

Hey your the reason we can't get an underwater zone again thanks fuckboi for not being able to deal with fighting things underwater.

>>383981036
>singular linear quest chain that never made you step outside of the zone
Tell me this isn't some hardcore nostcuck sideways praise for the vanilla quests that required you to go to a whole other continent through a zone to high for you and back. The most reviled thing about vanilla questing aside from the last two levels of grinding raptors.

>>383981329
>>Hence why I specified prenerf you casual faggot.

So your best argument was some dungeons were okay for a couple months?

lol

>Strange, I remember doing Hyjal with my guildies and ganking everyone on the way to the finish. Must suck not having any friends :(

Really? How many of them could drop in and drop out any time they wanted? Cause Phasing a fucking bitch in Hyjal, I'll tell you that.

And it wasn't just the story, it was the aesthetics. WoW sold itself on its world, and Blizzard fucked it up by adding a bunch of fire and craters.

>>383981268
hard mode: tell me why any zone but Deepholme was bad, without using "muh phasing" that still didn't stop me from participating in tons of world PVP.

>>383981329
Foe reaper was becoming a grind even before the nerf, it was impossible to get enough gear to survive it before the raid opened. I was in most preraid bis and it could still slaughter my group.

>>383981453
There were bad instances where you had to travel places, but Cata made each zone insular. It didn't feel like a world, so much as a new hub for questing.

Even zones right next to each other. Everything basically took place in one single map area.

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>>383976698
Nah mate it was good. They really spent a lot of time redesigning the world and it was nice to quest in the heart of azeroth instead of some gay planet. Would be great to be able to quest in the zones at any level like in legion.

>>383981509
I've explained it. Parties were made obsolete. Everything was intended to be soloed. Phasing made interacting with people more difficult, and questing was insular experiences that took you from one zone to the next by the nose. There was no exploring, or allowing you to forge your own path. You checked the Call Board, took the breadcrumb quest, and followed the linear story progression.

>>383981509
World PVP died when battlegrounds were introduced, how can phasing have anything to do with it? Do you mean ganking?

>>383981502
>muh phasing
Literally never had any problem with it. Perhaps you played a year after launch when the zones died down?

>muh aesthetics
What fire and craters are you talking about?
The small zone in Hyjal? The Firelands (lol)?

Cataclysm's zones were beautiful, Vash'jr, Deepholme, and Skywall are still great looking to this day.

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>>383977967
Aaaaahhhhhh

>>383981830
Why are you ignoring that there was an entire 1-58 experience that Blizzard revamped, and was one of the major sellers of the expansion? Their selling point being how they "destroyed" Azeroth.

Which, by the way, was all sorts of fucked up. 1-58 takes places after Wrath. Then you go to BC, do Wrath, and go to Cata again.

No one Blizzard encourages people to level boost.

>>383976698
>lets create a gigantic world of interesting zones and make them empty because levelling through them is a huge chore compared to instance spamming and max level characters have no reason to ever return LOL

>>383981830
Skywall was the only good looking part of Cata and it didn't even get a zone, just two instances

>>383978541
This

>>383981968
i level boost to avoid WoD
10 fucking levels....of WoD

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>>383977923
Because it's not a meme. You're just creatively bankrupt and trained to be shallow.

Even after Cata, they managed to commit the biggest crime to date. And then desecrated it further in Legion.

How about blowing up Alt Draenor? I wouldn't mind seeing that place fuck off.

>>383981437
>Hey your the reason we can't get an underwater zone again

No, it was the fact that Blizzard's shitty engine doesn't handle people/mobs moving around in water well at all. That's the reason why we're unlikely to get another underwater zone.

>>383980591
Cata was horrible, but MoP was able to recover from it decently, although it still suffered from its own bad stuff with the tedious welfare legendary time gating. The raw gameplay was still salvageable. Garrisons fundamentally destroyed WoW. Legion could have recovered from WoD's depression, but the garrison garbage corrupted the game to its core.

>>383982105
wtf
the levelling in wod is better than anything that came before it

>>383981619
>even zones right next to each other
There were none, the whole expansion was a world tour.

>>383981747
>everything was intended to be soloed
Everything has been since the creation of hunters, pallies, and warlocks.

The rest of your paragraph's origins are in Wrath, not Cata.

>>383981968
Level boost didn't exist during Cata, the time shit existed since Wrath with the Death Knight starting zone

>>383982025
Deepholme and Vash'jr are great looking. My favorite part of Deepholme is the mercury waterfalls with the giant slow blobs of viscous dripping.

>>383982198
No it isn't

>>383981968
Not doing this puts them in the same boat, like how felwood and winter springs would suddenly take place 4 years before hyjal same with the wetlands and twilight highlands.
Or how blackwing decent would take place in a different time to the zone it was in, the same with some of the new 5mans and the revamped 5 mans.

>>383982198
it's SHITTTT, are you fucking kidding me?! Most of WoD was a Garrison gimmick and you have to relive that shit every. fucking. alt. If you don't boost. I've already done those entry zones on both factions plenty of times and that stupid starting area with that faggot wizard.

>>383982254
>There were none, the whole expansion was a world tour.

"Tour" is right. You were taken places, rather than you exploring them. From your first level, to your last, you were on a chain, and were never intended to go off it.

In Vanilla, quests could bring you from Elwynn, to Westfall, to Redridge, to Duskwood, all around the same leveling range, and you could do quests in multiple zones at the same time. You weren't just checking off boxes of completion to get you to the next curated experience.

>Everything has been since the creation of hunters, pallies, and warlocks.

Elite quests were a thing, buddy. Even then, you discouraged from grouping due to things like the linearity, and phasing. It was a one man show until end game.

>Level boost didn't exist during Cata,

Blizzard realized they had too big of a mess on their hand to fix.

the time shit existed since Wrath with the Death Knight starting zone

Which was instanced. You could do the vanilla quests if you wanted.

Can't do that after Cata.

>>383981968
If Blizzard were decent they would just cut the cap back down to 60 and have all old expansion content (not counting EK/Kal) in the same 10 or 20 levels. Leveling has become such a brutal joke, it only still exists so that Blizzard can line their pockets with level boost dosh.

>>383982520
That would mean there's a linear progression of story. You do the events beforehand, and it takes you to new events afterwards.

>>383982598
>Blizzard realized they had too big of a mess on their hand to fix.

They also realized the majority of people arent even going out into the world and questing they are just sitting in town using the group finder basically skipping the entire experience anyway.

>>383982556
The point is WoD's levelling is better then anything that came before it once for one character because it's so story driven, which ironically makes doing it on alts hell on earth.

>>383982734
Proof that they fucked up somewhere.

>>383982734
They could have adjusted the balance of instance grinding and questing so instances weren't the obviously correct choice. Instead they chose not to do so for some bizarre reason.

>>383976698
they need to do it again.

the worst part is that questing tech was so heavily updated in the next xpac, so it still feels like old content.

Re-doing the world once more with treasures and level sync enabled is just what the game needs. They could make some pretty comfy old world zones with the hearthstone aesthetic.

>>383982734
>majority of people arent even going out into the world and questing they are just sitting in town using the group finder basically skipping the entire experience anyway
This and the player character lore power creep are the biggest problems in the game

>>383982909

They honestly should have just implemented something where after the 5th or so dungeon finder group of the day you get less experience and don't get the big bonus xp at the end.

>>383982941
graphic artists aren't slaves that work for free
you have to pay them

>>383982941
gadgetzan needs a serious revamp though.

Every time they've revamped areas, it's been a disaster. WoD was just Cata 2.0 with the caveat that you could still technically visit Outland- their one concession that unfortunately they didn't give to the Vanilla world.

>>383983058
Yeah forcing your final alt for the class you like the least to quests when it's jacked to the gills on xp pots and heirlooms seems like a solid design decision.

>>383976762
The thing with ARR is that it's already rebuilt. Most of the cities and shit got wiped off the map. You still have evidence that there was a calamity, but you don't have villages that are totally busted piles of shit 5ever.
>>383977276
Isn't there always some fags shilling their games? it's infantile to be sure though.
I like both WoW and XIV so I like to discuss both
>>383976698
Cata was the worst expansion seriously. An expansion should add, not subtract content. Some of the low level redesigns were ok but they removed too much of the old comfy game.

>>383983241
Nigger if you're using exp pots and shit you ALWAYS quest. YOu get a quest log of 25 completed quests, pop the potion, and turn them all in.

>>383978506
This. mimiron and yogg were some of my most memorable and favorite fights in those raids just because of how much I felt the fights progressed in terms of mechanical complexity. I remember my first time into illidan and just being surprised how fucking boring that fight was, and how easy it was (still wiped because of idiots in raid) but at the time people were treating it like it was the hardest thing ever, and it really wasn't.

>>383983241
Heaven forbid you can't just faceroll your way to max level. Levelling used to take two months casually to cap and the game was vastly better for it

>>383981229
Ozruk is just stupid mechanically and because his shatter was glitched/you'd die to server lag.
Throngus had some RNG that was gay and stupid yeah.

Erudax was fine, you just needed people that weren't shit DPS. Unfortunately that was harder to find than not.

>>383979576
>the giant lazy chasm between stormwind and dun morogh because there wasn't any textured terrain between them before Cata
>the giant lazy chasm between badlands and loch modan because the texture in the mountains looked like shit connecting the two

Flying in Azeroth is really jarring when you realize how the world is just stitched together.

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>101 zones
>14 cities
>95 dungeons
>39 raids
>16 scenarios

>Most of this shit is completely irrelevant

Brings a tear to me eye

>>383983515
This alt-a-thon they got going on in the game is ridiculous in itself, how about making your game so that you have enough shit to do on your main character to not have to level every class to fucking max. I didn't have another max level character until late TBC.

So, I've never played WoW but the idea of an expansion like Cataclysm causing some end of days scenario with real consequences all over the world sounds really fucking cool. What is wrong with that exactly?

>>383983703
It's been 7 years and the world hasn't changed at all since it happened.

>>383983573
It was never intended to be viewed from that perspective.

There are plenty of videos on youtube that show the tricks developers use to stay efficient when they know players technically shouldn't be seeing certain visuals.

Designing game worlds is all about creating a giant facade.

>>383983592
The game has been overdue for a proper sequel since Cata. Perhaps subs dropping below 2 mil or whatever horrendous figure they're down to now will be the kick in the pants they finally need. The success of WoW ruined Blizzard's creativity and made them super-conservative so as not to upset the rivers of gold coming from the game with any new or challenging ideas.

>>383983703
>real consequences
world of warcraft is a theme park. cataclysm is the same theme park with some lava painted on it. The world has zero reactivity

>>383983703
Because it never worked like that. It was the beginning of the implementation of new mechanics like in-game cinematics and phasing that would change the world as you quested.

Cataclysm came out like 6 years ago and they've never once went back to change the old stuff, except for the cities because people complained that they got tired of all the buildings being on fire and shit.

>>383983703
because their were no consequences. the world should have been fucking annihilated or most of it

would have actually been smart
the missed the opportunity

>>383983789
Blizzard were never creative and pretty much just ripped off everyone elses ideas since day one

I love how the barrens is still the most tedious fucking thing to traverse and getting to tanaris takes a fucking day if you don't do the quests leading to it, which you won't because chances are 1k needles will be grey after you do whatever instance is level appropriate and gain 5 levels at once.

It infuriates me how much of a backdrop azeroth has become. leveling now is such a fucking tedious chore. At least pre cata you could argue that some people could go through and enjoy whatever boring grind there was with some semblance of coherence and structure in the story of each zone. but now you can't even make that argument, you fucking pass zones up about 60% into a zone's story even without heirlooms. the quests just become grey, and even if you do decide to stay and see a zone through, you pass up the next zone even faster in levels. It's so fucking lazy.

When does the pvp in this game get fun? I'm lvl 72 and every just wacks each other for 10 minutes until someone finally dies.

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cata is the only objectively bad expansion, the game would straight up have millions more players rn if cata never happened

I thought wod was pretty comfy for questing

the pvp zone was neat too. I miss the dk zone wide ability to keep spells with dark sim for multiple casts.

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>quit after defeating Deathwing
>watch new cinematics from Legion
>fucking Battle Star Galactica spaceships n shiet
I remember when this game was about grinding elementals and killing orcs. I want to go back to those days.

>>383983759
yup. I would swim out to the edges of the terrain maps and walk along them with levitate/halloween candy in wrath that would let you wallwalk and just check out all the neat funky terrain that mashed together.

Exploration was so fun.

>>383984067
it only goes downhill from there, because you can only have fun if you play like 3 classes.

>>383984079
>WoD not bad
Yeaaah no

>>383983515
the vast vast majority of people levelling today or even back when cata dropped were not new players it was a case of been there done that got the tshirt.
I'm sorry most of /v/'s opinion of how question should be is from when they were playing with their buddies getting their dwarf hunter to 35 then dropping the game so they remember levelling as everything. But levelling was never hard or important or meaningful.
You could hit max in around 2 weeks in vanilla if you were a good player without cheesing.

>>383983524
I never said Erudax was not mechanically broken but he was overtuned, maybe my recollection was off because cata was when my GM wanted to turn the guild into a top100 raiding guild and we were doing everything on the bleeding edge so we might have been undergeared a little but we had to seriously push to kill him every time.

>>383984149
I'd say its a waste of money, but it didn't actively ruin parts of the game like cata

>>383984079
The endgame of WoD was probably the worst the game has ever been. Garrisons were an appalling fig leaf of endgame content, and then they doubled down on it with shipyards which were somehow even less fun. Unbelievable.

>>383984134
the only bad part about legion is how alt unfriendly it is for pve. Other then that the artifact system is pretty cool. It would be nice to have a choice of artifacts in future expansions.

How long until heirloom artifacts?

>>383984079
Fuck this neo /v/ bullshit.
What was in cata was solid content, firelands is easily a top 5 raid.
The reason cata is remembered as shit was because of cut content and over a year of dragon soul, which was not only a terrible raid but also introduced lfr.

>>383984242
Yes but cata literally made entire areas of WoW completely unfun and onbnoxious

>>383984319
it's been a fuckign nightmare for me. I can't find a class I actually enjoy anymore so every time I go to try a new one I basically restart the grind. granted that's my own fault, but it's basically turned whatever fun I may have into a chore now.

>>383984361
The reason Cata is shat on is because it completely fucked up leveling forever basically.

>>383984361
Uldum is and vashjir are some of the worst zones ever conceived. Half of the xpac is outdated pop culture references, all the raids outside of firelands suck, entire quest lines just never going anywhere, and yes, dragon soul is a fucking terrible raid. They somehow managed to drop the ball with deathwing completely.

>>383983703
Deathwing was a wuss. He went around breaking shit at the beginning of the expansion and even summoned Ragnaros back into the world. Then he got severely wounded by Alexstrasza and all that was brought to an end fairly quickly.

In the final fight with him after he spends all that time recuperating he gets blown to bits with a laser, attempts to flee and then gets his ass beaten again.

>>383982267
>>383982556
You're a bunch of faggots if you think WoD is what needed skipping when MoP exists.

>>383984153
>But levelling was never hard

You're being massively hyperbolic. If you hadn't been through it before, levelling was complex, confusing. The fastest level caps were 120hrs played and that was literal speedrunners playing hunters which were easymode. There was a healthy market for paid and free levelling guides for a reason. There's a reason levelling guides aren't even a thing anymore. The idea of Blizzard inflicting anything remotely as complex on the playerbase nowadays is laughable. They're so desperate to retain players so everything is heavily sanded down so you couldn't possibly get stuck.

>>383984079
MoP killed WoW. Fucking panda's.

>>383984729
you are fucking retarded if you genuinely think mop was worse than wod. I can't imagine what fucking delusional argument is in your head that would even suggest something like that. I'm gonna guess its LOL PANDAS

>>383984242
debatable. While the severe lack of casual content was absolutely terrible and probably did more damage to the game than anything prior to it. Mythic raiding was incredibly fun.
To this day, WoD has some of the most interesting and fun bosses in teh game. Blackrock foundry was an amazing instance, and HFC was pretty fun until you finally beat Archimonde.


Garrisons were absolutely abhorrent, and the pvp was probably the worst it had ever been, and probably the worst it will ever be. Ability prune was largely unneeded, but luckily legion added some more depth back to the classes. Hopefully in the next expansion we'll have some genuinely fun, complex and rewarded specs to play.

>>383976802
The new stuff they added was great and the classes were arguably at one of their best paired with pandaria. It was just the revamp of all the old stuff that fucked the expac so hard imo.

>>383984808
>Mythic raiding was incredibly fun.
I don't doubt that, mythic raiders are <10% of the playerbase though and that's probably extremely generous. Casuals keep the lights on and WoD had basically nothing for them. No reason to run instances more than once. Timewalking was an extremely tepid response to complains about no 5 man content worth running with no rewards you would actually want. WoD was a barren desert for casuals. No wonder their playerbase literally halved during that xpac.

>>383984805
>Hurr listen to this conversation for 15 min
>Hey follow me while I talk about shit you don't care about
>Go speak to the villagers
>Go become a monk lel - get drunk instead
Not to mention the quests where you're playing as npc's - shit was horrible, and having to go through that shit on alts is torture.
And I haven't even talked about how out of place it all felt - suddenly we're surrounded by hippies with their faggy chinese art-style with no orc/alliance city in sight.

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>>383982198

>>383982598
>Elite quests were a thing, buddy.
You could always easily solo them unless you were playing a shitty class.

>>383984808
>legion added some more depth back to the classes
Can't speak for other roles, but tanks have had quite the rollercoaster in terms of changes and "balance".
Druids better acknowledge that they got blizzard's golden buff hammer up their ass all expansion.

>>383985078
Far from always. We're not talking a one off elite mob, surrounded by regulars, there were entire areas that were basically outdoor dungeons. The keep in Redridge, the troll area in The Hinterlands.

Fucking Andorhal. That area was so rough, Blizzard had to redesign it in a patch to remove walls.

>>383985026
as opposed to fucking what?
>here's a bunch of orc and alliance cities
>here's a rehash of the story you already saw in warcraft, but with even less depth than before
>oops we forgot the rest of the content teehee
>just play this shitty phone game table instead

Your whole argument is "i don't like pandas" and youre defending a fucking half expansion over one that tried to bring some originality and creativity to the lore, told a coherent story, and actually made fucking sense within the world. I genuinely can't believe i'd see someone shit on mop to defend WoD

>>383985214
>Far from always.
t. shitter that doesn't know what a hunter or warlock is

>>383985323
i remember when warlocks were good too

>>383985323
Yeah man, I'm sure you soloed Jintha'Alor.

>>383984748
You're being wilfully obtuse to prove a point.
My PB in vanilla was 8 days so ~2 weeks was a more then fair claim. I also never said levelling now was harder then it was then because it's not it's just was never 'hard'.

Levelling guides existed because there were no quest markers, wikis didn't exist, there was not enough quest xp to go around and you couldn't spam dungeons. I'll concede it was confusing but hardly complex

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>Entire zones dedicated to memes and pop- culture references

>>383985417
Worse, some zones had "topical" pop culture references.

Do you remember the movie MacGruber? Cause Blizzard references it in Hillsbrad.

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>>383985417
>Favorite environment in any MMO are deserts
>We finally get a new desert zone
>It's literally made up of nothing but Indiana Jones quests
>Anything remotely original takes place in the massive jungle-like oasis areas

>>383985267
Oh yeah, panda's are an integral part of World of Warcraft indeed
>Remember that 1 hero we added that started out as an april's fools gimmick
And suddenly we get a whole expansion revolving solely around these fucks.
You talk of "story" as if that wasn't completely botched with MoP
>your whole argument is "i don't like pandas"
Nice reading comprehension, if you'd pay more attention you'd realize it was a complaint towards the shitty fucking leveling pace - it was a desperate attempt at creating a story and it was terrible.
>fly on my back champion - feel sorry for me :^)

>oops we forgot the rest of the content teehee
>just play this shitty phone game table instead
>here's a rehash of the story you already saw in warcraft, but with even less depth than before
All 3 of these can be applied to MoP as well. Fuck outta here pandaboy.

>>383985527
They had to dumb down the references for the nine year old horde niggers.

>>383980137
>the only memorable fight was meme'ru

how to spot someone that didn't raid in tbc

>>383985651
>And suddenly we get a whole expansion revolving solely around these fucks.

The story isn't even about the fucking pandas, The overall fucking plot of the expansion is the horde and alliance war destroying their land. they're like a backdrop to the alliance and horde. You need to worry less about my reading comprehension and pay attention to the fucking game you're complaining about. And when the fuck did I say the pandas were integral? I said they were new, but the whole story that takes place in that expansion is about something we haven't touched on in like 2 expansions, so fuck off with trying to twist my words.

>>383985651
>All 3 of these can be applied to MoP as well. Fuck outta here pandaboy.
List them. I want to see where the equivalent to the garrison table is in MoP, i want to see where the complete lack of content is in comparison to WoD is in mop and I want to see a literal retreading of a story that we already saw is in MoP. The only argument you have is the SoO drought.

>>383985406
I was talking about if you had other obligations other than levelling for 2 straight weeks. You can get a character past 60 in an afternoon now.

>>383986116
With heirlooms and a darkmoon leveling buff maybe

>>383980137
>competency checks
>do you have enough warblades?

>>383976698
Cata seems like the most intense self destruction, like blizzard hated their game and their world and just tried to re-do everything in some soulless streamlined way. I don't know how exactly, but I guess the activision merge in 2008 + some of the lead WoW devs leaving in 2009 created some weird new team that wanted to make their mark on WoW, or something.

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>>383980275
>Be one of the founders of the modern Horde
>Get absolutely nothing throughout the entirety of WoW
>Your best friend, Thrall, chooses some raging Orc retard to lead the Horde while he's away
>Die in a book the large majority of players have never read
>Most people don't even know you're dead
>Get absolutely fucking nothing in ways of a funeral, literally rotting on a pile of sticks in Mulgore
>The only acknowledgement of your death comes from a small quest during Children's Week
>Your son, Baine, isn't allowed to do fuck all either, and got cut out of the one major sub-story he was planned to have in Highmountain, all because some Alliance players whined about having to help a Horde character
>Garrosh is fucking dead, so your death had absolutely no meaning in the first place, and ultimately served no purpose
>On top of EVERYTHING, the person that's responsible for your death, Magatha, got away with everything that she did, and currently resides in the Shaman class hall, where Muln gets told to fuck off by Nobundo for getting reasonably angry at her even being there in the first place

>>383976698
WoW became shit when they added the honor system. Prove me wrong nerds.

>>383986389
That and nobody wants to admit it, but illidan and arthas were basically the end all be all to wow bosses. Sure there's other people like the legion and old gods. But they don't have the staying power of either. Blowing their loads on both of them so quickly probably wasn't the smartest idea. We should have gotten cata before either of those xpacs

>>383986389
Blizzard had 12 million people playing WoW as Cata struck. There was this mix of massive ego, pressure, and hubris that did them in.

>>383986389
Cory Stockton took over as lead game designer for Cata, the same guy that invented Garrisons for WoD and class halls for Legion.

>>383986523
The OG Honor System was a massive shitshow, especially once Battlegrounds got introduced.

People spending 12+ hours a day grinding BGs, with multiple people on accounts.

>>383986513
taurens are shit
how many clues did you need?

>>383986513
Baine?

>>383986597
The reason is was shit is that people weren't pvping for fun anymore but instead to earn points. PvP used to be about ganking and raiding.

>>383986687
>taurens are shit
I can instantly say the same about you

>>383986526
Honestly, nah. They did them at the right time. People like a good trilogy. WoW much not have dropped off as hard, but I doubt it'd ever hit the peaks it did had they not put Arthas as the second expansion.

Only way they could have mained though would have been to put Sargeras right after.

>>383986762
You might be right. I'm sure a huge portion of wow success was the right time, right place and nonstop momentum. But man I would love to see an xpac like LK with the mechanics and graphics of today.

>>383986754
I hate all furry races, sorry not sorry

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>>383980275
>>383980369
>>383980463
>>383986513

>>383977864
he's right tho

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>>383986719
He's a big bull

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>>383986867
Apologize.

>>383986867
>Tauren
>Furry

>>383987138
>covered in fur
>not furry
really gets the thinkoplexer gears rolling around in my noggin case

>>383987070
I HATE ALL FURRY RACE
EXTERMINATUS ON FURFAGS

>>383981453
vanilla encouraged team play because even simple quest level or two above you were too time consuming or hard to deal with alone so everyone is kinda polite and open to grouping, it feels real

in cata? nah, you're immortal doing group elite quests on your own, it encourages solo play because other faggot could get some nice drop, or farm your nodes and you don't want that since you don't need him anywa, plus there's phasing and destruction of the old world, new one looks like complete shit save for few new locations, still not worth what was lost

>>383987178
>I can't enjoy anything: The Post

>>383986526
I remember being totally shocked that illidan was going to be a mere raid boss, even though I didn't really care that much about the story.

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>>383987194
How cute anon.

>>383983703
>So, I've never played WoW but the idea of an expansion like Cataclysm causing some end of days scenario with real consequences all over the world sounds really fucking cool. What is wrong with that exactly?
That's accurate, it was begining of the end for WoW, last WotLK patches were it's messengers. What's wrong? You're never going to play WoW when it was good.

>>383976802
Same as this anon>>383977410

>>383986513
>he was planned to have in Highmountain, all because some Alliance players whined about having to help a Horde character

God, is this true? Horde players still have to help Tyrande in Val. And she's talking shit to you while you do it, even though you're also there to save Malfurion.

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>>383987513
Horde players also have to help Velen retake the Exodar.
Quality Blizzard writing.

>>383987513
Alliance players still have a lot of resentment towards how they were treated in Cata.

>>383984079
Cata and THEN the slow burn that was MoP (SoO was end game for an entire year and a fucking half) into the shitfest that was WoD. Legion is alright if you aren't into PvP, but even then it has its glaring flaws. WoW has been a complete mess since the end of Wrath

>>383987565
Velen might as well be Neutral though. He doesn't have much resentment towards the Horde.

>>383987591
Alliance players have always been massive crybabbies - and they keep getting their way too.

>>383987513
>oh no tyrande doesn't like me all i did was wage a genocidal campaign against her people and her allies :*(

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>>383987591
Figures the race with the most amount of crybabies also holds the longest grudges.

>>383987673
Doesn't change the fact that it's Alliance territory.

>>383987513
>>383987565

Horde tears - best tears.

>>383987673
Same can be said for Baine.

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>>383984090
That's unecological and racist anon. Welcome the Diversity

>>383987715
>>383987742
>crybabby mind

>>383987715
They do have some reason to be annoyed. Blizzard left Stormwind on fire from 2010 until fairly recently and made an entire expansion that was basically a love letter to orcs. And I say that as an exclusively Horde player.

>>383987715
Being Alliance during Cata was a shitshow. Rushed quests that made the entire faction look like the butt of everyone's joke.

I think it culminated when an employee, during Blizzcon, called Alliance players fags.

You know, the people who pay you $15 a month.

I just realized garrisons are the closest we will ever get to player owned houses

>>383987839
Yes, an expansion for ORCS. Not the Horde. ORCS. Horde get the least amount of representation when it comes to story.

>>383987847
They are fags though.

>>383987839
Is there still a giant crater where the park used to be?

>>383987847
They should pay $30 for how big fags they are to be honest

>>383987839
>>383987847
>Boo-hoo-hoo muh capital
>muh representation
The worst part is that blizzard listens to these fags.

>I think it culminated when an employee, during Blizzcon, called Alliance players fags.
Based - do you have a link?

>>383987742
So are you just gonna pretend that the Alliance side of those quests, where your commander tells you that men have gone AWOL and begun desecrating Taurajo, and orders you to kill them on sight and rescue any civilians, doesn't exist?

>>383987940
No, it's a giant memorial to Varian now.

>>383987940
As of about nine months ago, no. They finally fixed it this expansion.

>>383987269
>dressing up in my cow fursuit makes me feel really really good: The Post

>>383988004
So he died before fixing it? Top lel.

>>383987985
>>383987945
>>383987935
Why are horde players so edgy?

>>383987986
>Alliance have to damage control to make something seem like it's not so bad when a bunch of their soldiers murder innocents for no reason

>>383978025
Good games attract shit posting.

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>>383988046

>>383987985
>>383987945
>>383987935
>The worst part is that blizzard listens to these fags.

>Bleeding subs
>Insult your playerbase
>This is okay because of some pseudo sports team-tier drama

New way for companies like EA and Activision to fuck consumers.

>>383987986
Are you going to pretend that Bael'dun doesn't exist?

>>383988118
Says the guy who defended blizzard's decision to fuck up High Mountain because alliancefags couldn't stand having to "help" a "horde representative".

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>>383988105
>Implying I even play Alliance

Cherrypicking one example doesn't excuse the literal genocide Sylvanus is committing in Lordaeron.

>>383988118
Alliance babies will never stop their crying no matter how much Blizzard panders to them. Legion is a great example of this.

>>383988171
I didn't defend it, I explained why.

Remember, Cata is the expansion that had Theramore blow up for no reason. Blizzard just liked to fuck with people.

I'm not some vanilla only babby but I really wish there was a way to play through the original 1-60 experience again. I really dislike the majority of the Cata 1-60 experience, with a couple of exceptions. I like Azshara a fair bit but I'm a Goblinfag.

>>383988212
Sylvanas might be Warchief now, but her and her forsacucks have always barely been apart of the Horde. They're one plague barrel away from murdering everyone.

>>383988282
Alright, how about the nuke in Theramore?

>>383988223
>I didn't defend it, I explained why.
Well then you know it's alliancefags that are to blame, as it always have been.
The horde has tolerated the bullshit that is Alterac Valley since launch.

>>383976698
Alex, Who are the French during wwii?

>>383988105
>MUH TAURAJO

lmao look at this faggot. It's the only thing Horde comes up with when it wants to pretend they're the good guys. Care to remind me how many times Orcs tried to blow up the fucking planet? How many times the Forsaken melted people with chemical weapons?

The time Goblins used a fucking nuke on a city?

>>383988223
theramore didnt blow up until mop though
I think deathwing fucked auberdine though bur iirc alliance got not! auberdine with new metal fencing or something at the same time

>>383988297
Blizzard deciding to throw Garrosh's character out the window in favor of making him the obvious villain.

>>383988316
>M-MUH THERAMORE
>M-MUH MILITARY BASE

>>383988351
>theramore didnt blow up until mop though

No, came the patch before MoP.

>>383988223
Theramore blowing up is pretty much setting the scene for the next expansion if the leaks are to be believed.

It's supposedly Kul'Tiras, where Jaina has retreated post-Theramore to plot revenge against the Horde. https://www reddit com/r/wow/comments/6losh0/did_blizzard_accidentally_leak_info_on_the_new/

The worst thing about Cataclysm was the worgan and goblin starting zones
You can't hype these places up and then never visit them again, that's a total dick move
I mean I get Kezan being unavailable because it's an Island in the middle of nowhere but Gilneas could've been a great capital but instead they gave the worgans a little place inside of a tree

>>383988382
You're fucking retarded.

>>383986513
I don't even like the horde but the fact magatha is allowed to be in the shaman hall is ridiculous, and the fact she's a fucking CHAMPION is so incredibly insulting i can't believe it got implemented. I mean holy shit, blizzard has made a ton of awful decisions over the years, and they've had more than a few massive "fuck you" to the players, but this one is definitely way up there on the list. This bitch has been attacking, harassing, and killing tauren for ages, she's allied herself with the fucking old gods/void lords by helping out the twilight cultists, and most of all she killed cairne. It's baffling that she's let into your sanctum and forced on you to be one of your fucking champions.

>>383988379
>M-MUH THERAMORE

And muh Southshore. And muh Gilneas, and probably a couple dozen more 'muhs' to come, but all the Horde has to bitch over are a couple of tents.

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>>383988116

>>383988379
Ashenvale?

>>383988116

WYRMREST?

>>383988439
I was wrong technically though
It happened shortly before MoP even if it didnt show up till then (i think?)

>>383988439
That's needlessly rude.

>>383988487
No, I'm fairly certain it came very late in Cata is a scenario.

>>383988457
>A-Alliance has more muhs, so your muhs don't count!
Typical Alliance playing the victim card.
Every.
Single.
Time.
No wonder Blizzard called you fags.

>>383988223
Theramore blew up because Jaina attacked the Horde.

>>383988528
Actually no, not even as a Scenario, since those didn't exist. it was a was retrofitted to be one later.

>>383988528
>>383988487
The mana nuke was the pre-MoP event. Technically it took place in Cata because we had yet to make landfall in Pandaria.

The Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, along with the Surumar quest lines, really make me want an entire WoW expansion that takes place in one big city. Instead of shit like The Broken Isles with 5 zones that feel tiny put all that design effort into building one huge city. There doesn't need to be some world ending super villain. You just hang out in this city and fight with gangs and stuff.

>>383988282
if forsaken could be a 3rd faction alone i would join it

the horde is faggy nowadays anyway

>>383988475
I am more surprised you have this saved on your pc

>>383988529
>Try to pull the victim card
>get reminded the Horde are scum
>Can't take it

lmao

>>383986513
fucking taurenfags

>>383988560
It was a scenario.

>World Event: Attack on Theramore Isle
Warchief Garrosh, obsessed with assuring the Horde's supremacy over Kalimdor, launches an all-out attack against Jaina's island home of Theramore. Though valiant Alliance defenders rush to repel the sudden onslaught, they’ll soon find themselves unprepared for the terrible scope of Garrosh's true plans…

>This Scenario will become available for level 85 characters for the week prior to the launch of Mists of Pandaria, from September 18th to the 24th. Upon the launch of Mists of Pandaria, it will become level 90.[1]

>>383988529
>"alliance playing the victim card"
>alliance is actually literally the victims of the entire game because orcs invaded their planet and immediately waged war
The one anon is right, the only argument any horde fanboy can ever come up with is "muh taurajo", that's it, that's the only thing they have, and at best it's a grey area situation.

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>>383988475
Get triggered boy.

>>383988480
Best server

Speaking of which - why did blizzard change the tauren skin?

>>383988623
Fuck off

>>383988578
I liked MoP in the sense that it felt like a break from the big villains like the Scourge or the Legion, at least at the beginning. I'd like the next expansion to be a similar thing before we fight the Void Lords.

>>383988578
sorry kid, it's already been done
>not playing Shenmue

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>>383988698
This skin for instance - doesn't exist anymore.
Personally I preferred the white going all the way up to the neck/jaw - it gave a more aggressive look.

>>383988682
>Alliance soldiers kill literally the most neutral out of all the Horde races and burn down their village just so they can make a road
>Alliance dindu nuffin, they good bois!
To think all this started because people got mad over one person lamenting over Cairne's death.

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>we will never see garrosh again

why even play this game?

>>383988578
That would actually be pretty cool. Too bad it won't happen!

>>383976698
>fans demand more old world content
>they wand the leveling experience updated
>blizzard remixes the old world and makes new quests
>Baaaww baawww why did you do exactly what i was crying for you to do bawww

>>383988807
>Alliance dindu nuffin, they good bois!

Alliance actually didn't kill them though. That's a fact. They tried to make the civilians escape, but those were killed by mobs in the area.

It's literally the most morally gray Alliance ever got, and there was still a caveat.

Meanwhile, WoD basically exists as proof that Orcs were fucking assholes even without the demons.

>>383988698

I prefer Moon Guard because people aren't in denial about enjoying ERP there. Wyrmrest also bitches about MG in trade all day like tumblr rape victims.

Also, nelf and drae futas are top tier.

>>383988906
>Do it badly and destroy the original content that made the game famous

lol?

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>Fucking loved the Flintlocke comics
>Liked them so much that I like things like DS9 because of homages it made to them
>The author now works for Blizzard and is the single most responsible person for inundating the game with cancerous pop-culture references, memes and "wacky" shenanigans in every single quest

What a complicated feeling

>>383988949
was it ghostcrawler?

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>>383988804
Might as well finish the set now that we're in the zone.

>>383989016
le thicke ~~

>>383988910
>Alliance actually didn't kill them though.
Yes they did.
>That's a fact.
No it isn't.
>They tried to make the civilians escape, but those were killed by mobs in the area.
No they didn't. They attacked the Tauren on sight. The dialogue from the spirits of the dead citizens in the town make this clear.
>Th-They let them escape though!
>Meanwhile all of the profession trainers, along with even the innkeeper, are dead

>>383980747
>legion tie in
I think you mean pre-legion pay piggy farm.

>>383981631

gerkin

>>383988807
As i said, it's a grey area at best. The fact you completely ignore the whole scope of the situation just shows how ignorant you are about anything.

>some asshole lies, or just a simple misunderstanding, but gives word that the tauren plan to attack
>captain is skeptical but orders are orders, makes sure to give the tauren a chance to leave
>a bunch leave but some stay
>kill the ones that decided to stay
Obviously it was still a fucked up situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but to act like the alliance are equally as monstrous as the horde on one single act that was under false pretenses while at the same time still being honorable enough to give them a chance to flee is just asinine.

>>383976698
Is Elysium the only vanilla server that isn't shit?

>>383989086
Dude, it was a case of Blizzard intentionally creating misconceptions, because their writers thought they were clever. The Horde side notes how they were attacked, but the Alliance side notes that they tried to get the civilians out, but failed when I think Quilboar attacked them?

Again. Muh fucking Taurajo. That's all the Horde ever talks about.

Reminder that the Alliance allied themselves with the Grimtotem in Stonetalon.

>>383989148
The Alliance literally waited until the hunters had gone out before attacking, and there are siege weapons littered outside the gate to Mulgore.

>>383989205
Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I'm not allowed to talk about it as a shitty thing for them to do.

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How do some games like WoW get under people's skin, and there are hardcore fans, art produced, faction rivalry, etc, while superiority crafted and written games never get past the "its just a game" phase?

What is that quality of a game that gets you invested emotionally into it?
How do we make an actually good MMO that has that?

>>383989254
>For his own part, High Chieftain Baine Bloodhoof accepted that Camp Taurajo was a legitimate military target, as they did train hunters and warriors there, and knows that Hawthorne refused to have its civilians slaughtered.[4]

>>383989293
Because it had games in the past that a lot of people grow up with and had fond memories of.
At the start of WOW there was already big enough fan base

>>383989308
>Baine accepts that Taurajo was a legitimate military target
>But years later, Jaina is still crying about muh Theramore
If only Blizzard actually did shit with Baine.

>>383989293
Pick and IP that has a massive fanbase with 2 clearly unique factions that have fanatical devotion by the fans and lots of lore

Something like Star Wars could wo- oh wait

>>383989409
Final Fantasy, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Dungeons&Dragons, Star Wars, a lot of MMOs already had that, and people never got as invested into them as they did into WoW.

>>383989424
>Taurajo was a couple of tents
>Theramore at one point was the temporary capital of the Alliance

He'd probably have been more pissed had it been Thunderbluff.

>>383989469
Well to be fair to star wars - it was handled by EA - king of stolen concepts and ideas - they basically made a WoW reskin, shit was disgusting.

>>383989148
what a warped sense of lore the dindu's have to keep their higher then thou mentality.
What ACTUALLY happened:
>Summit at Theramore, Garrosh voices that they should just take what they want
>Twilight frame horde in ashenvale, King with magical rage schizophrenia is already ready to start war
>Twilight frame horde again
>Jaina believes Garrosh is making moves, so begins construction of a highway to Ashenvale
>Alliance WAIT UNTIL ALL FIGHTERS LEAVE CAMP T
>Then firebomb the shit out of it.
>Alliance end up sparking off the cata-mists war but as usual blizz bends over backwards to hide any alliance misdeeds

Hawthorne is literally the biggest bullshit martyr to have ever existed in the story. He exists solely to whitewash Camp T and then his own men set him up to be killed to put someone more aggressive in charge immediately after

>>383989205
Fuck Taurajo. At Bael Modan the Dwarves killed an entire TRIBE of Tauren just for "muh archaeology".

>>383989514
>A bunch of tents are considered a military target
>The capital of the alliance on the borders of horde territory isn't
I'm not sure, are you arguing for the horde now or what?

>>383989424
Do you want him to be a hard ass realpolitik pragmatic strategist, pushing aside the feels of his advisers to make calculated decisions for optimal outcomes?
That would just get him nicknamed Hitler/Stalin depending on who's talking. People like Jaina's emotional reaction more than his stoicism.

>>383989424
Baine understands that the people who start the fucking war can't complain when the other side retaliates. Theramore wasn't a legitimate target because the entire Alliance wasn't a legitimate target.

>>383989626
>implying
Baine > Jaina

>>383989592
Not saying it wasn't a military target. Orgrimmar is probably a military target. Stormwind too.

Those cities though would likely be a way more worthwhile hill to die on.

>>383989530
Star Wars had an earlier attempt at a WoW killer, that never broke a million players online.
You might know it from 10 nostalgia threads per week every week since it died.

>>383989589
Dwarves also invaded Mulgore and made all the earth spirits mad because of muh archaeology

>>383984079
>cata
>introduces new 1-60 content
>created fixed specializations so talents could be balanced
>repaired the specs that had dogshit design choices
>decent number of raids
>WoD
>3 raids in 2 years
goddamit cata, this game wouldn't be dead if it weren't for you

>>383989684
Which one?

>>383989736
galaxies

>>383989673
You are just a communist fascist, its normal for a red blooded leader to be mad about the death of her people.
She is a strong human and will lead us to crush the violent aggressors, and justice will prevail and our dead will be avenged, etc.

>>383989657
But the Alliance started the war.

>>383989657
>>383989675
Thereamore became a military target the moment the Alliance started building up the walls, built a huge fucking road that was specifically meant for tanks to drive down, and started training soldiers there. You people crying about facts obviously don't know your own.

>>383989686
Fucking Dwarves are always under the radar for this shit.

>>383978506
>beat Sargeras

Wait, really? Or did they find an even bigger bad who's secretly been pulling Sargeras' strings all along? I haven't played since early Cata so I wouldn't be surprised.

>>383988986
kosack

>>383989747
Oh, that. It never broke 1 million? Wew - I remember playing it in the early days, the gameplay was pretty shit though.
Ended up spending most of the time just looking at my twi'leks ass in a fleshwrap/that other thing (fishnet suit).

>>383989792
Theramore is a military target. I'm not denying it.

Jaina has a right to be pissed about it, though. It was her city. Before Stormwind was fixed, it was the Alliance capital. If training fighters is wrong, then Orgrimmar is equally at fault.

>>383989293
Just because WoW today is a 13 year old, low-effort milked cow in a fucking sea hundreds of competitors doesn't mean that in 2004 it wasn't a brand new, highly polished, well supported and uniquely playing game with such dogshit competition as Everquest and Final Fantaxy XI

>>383989469
see >>383989505
Most MMOs already had that. Its not it. There is something else WoW does that others don't.

>>383989787
The Horde is actively occupying Lordaeron and committing genocide on its people, and the Horde has been repeatedly attacking Ashenvale. The Alliance has all the casus belli they could possibly ever want to wipe the Horde out.
>b-but muh taurajo!

>>383989589
Don't forget about starting shit with the frostwolf tribe in AV over muh archeology.

>>383989895
The general consensus can be summed up as: Fuck dwarves.

>>383989859
no, why the fuck do you think sargeras is doing all the shit with the burning legion? he is trying to cleanse the universe of corruption. One of the main sources of corruption in the warcraft universe are the voidlords, and their creations (the old gods).

>>383989871
>brand new, highly polished, well supported and uniquely playing game

It was a Warcraft themed Everquest total conversion mod, except with worse quests.
It looked worse than games that came out in the same year, lagged, desynced people, had mobs glitching all over, it was not new or polished, and certainly not unqiue.

>>383989894
>Orcs have tried to blow up the entirety of Azeroth in the very least, three times
>They're still considered good guys

I'm even being nice here, arguing Warcraft I and II as a single campaign.

>>383989868
Baine has every right to be pissed too but do you see him going around making weak, petty threats? Nope.

>>383989293

Autism

>>383989868
Yeah she can be pissed about it but maybe she shouldn't have started shit in Cata then.

>>383989894
Lordaeron is literally bin the hands of the same people it always was, Stormwind has zero claim to it.

Before Cataclysm the Horde and Alliance were at peace, then the Alliance got tricked by the Twilights and started attacking the Horde everywhere.

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>>383989895
>Alliance get to kill fucking Drek'Thar, a really big important lore character
>Horde get to kill Vanndar Stormpike, some fucking nobody they made up just for the BG.

>>383989962
Isnt the whole point that Sergaras himself is "corrupted", whatever that means. Having different opinions from humans, probably.

The cata quest had way too many memes. Especially in the revamped 1-60 stuff. There were some decent quest here and there but over all the questing was a big downgrade.

>>383990027
How many times has the Alliance been tricked into attacking the Horde? It literally happened this expansion with the Rogue class questline. Alliance are fucking retarded and look for any reason they can find to attack the Horde.

>>383984406
I fell for the demon hunter meme and haven't been able to bring myself to reroll since. You can meme about them being "edgy" all you want but the survivability + aoe capability + insane mobility makes doing the typical daily shit like world quests so much less tedious. Havoc is really good for soloing old raids too if you're into that stuff.

>>383990052
no, of course not, he is just right, and he is cleansing the universe of the old gods and any other pawns of the void lords

>>383986513
>tfw rolled a pandaren
>tfw no new content since MoP
Blizzard likes to just forget about races entirely. Feels bad to be a panda or goblin

>>383989984
Taurajo was like, three tents. Theramore was a pseudo-capital city.

Alliance have equal reason to be mad about South Shore. Gilneas. The firebombing in Astranaar.

Actually, you know, that's a great one. Blizzard loves to harp on about phasing, but even if you save Astranaar, the city is on fire forever.

It will burn like Stratholme for eternity.

>>383977276
>why? I hardly see any wow shitposting in ffxiv threads
then you don't see any FFXIV threads

>>383989963
Yeah yeah, WoW was never good, Everquest was better and everyone is impressed that you played MMO's before 2004

>>383990117
More like XIV threads consist of people shitting on WoW in every thread.

How many expansions can Blizzard squeeze?
We are reaching power levels where where Legolazzz the Hunter and Dickmuh the Priest are killing planets.
I can't think of more than 2 expansions left - one for the old god in the core of this planet, and one for the titan.

>>383990027
>Lordaeron is literally bin the hands of the same people it always was

Is Gilneas? Cause I remember that not being in their hands. Southshore either.

>>383990087
It's almost like over the past 30 years the Horde has been populated by genocidal maniacs.

>>383990027
Lordaeron is in the hands of a group of rebels that stabbed their government in the back to install a foreign general as their queen. They have no claim to it, Lordaeron belongs to its law abiding citizens that are currently being genocided by the Forsaken, and should be reclaimed with the help of its allies.
Why don't we ask one of the little girls in plague vats in the Undercity how "at peace" the Horde is?

Cata was a mixed bag for me personally.

I enjoyed most of the 80 to 85 zones, with Uldum being my favorite, and the water zone being absolutely awful.

I initially didn't enjoy their new talent tiers, but in time it was an improvement over the talent tree system.

When heroic dungeons were fresh, the difficulty spike was awesome. I really felt a sense of progression and accomplishment when clearing them. I know a lot of people didn't enjoy the huge risk vs little reward, but my dungeon group were clearing them quite quickly before they were nerfed and irrelevant.

There were way too many raids released at the beginning and it overwhelmed quite a bit of raid groups.As for the raids, they were all quite boring, other than Firelands.

I hated the aesthetic of the gear. From the leveling gear to raid gear it was all absolute dog shit. Orange or purple with huge stupid spikes.

>>383990142
>yeah yeah you are right, but fuck you i'm right

Not an argument. Either argue or admit you are wrong.

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Boob physics for players when?

>>383989859
They turned sageras into an illidan type, a guy doing bad shit but for a greater good. The difference being illidan's shit made a lot more logical sense and actually had a purpose, whereas sageras is pretty much a retard who thinks the only way of cleansing the universe of corruption (void lords/old gods) is to just wipe out the whole universe.

None of this really makes sense though, it's a typical blizzard retcon that takes a cool idea or character and just makes it all retarded nonsense.

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>>383990272
WHEN

>>383990248
weren't talent tiers a mop thing? I remember still having trees in cata

>>383990272
At this point I just want WoW on a different engine so Blizzard can actually do something with the game without being held down by the very obvious limitations.

>>383990357

You're right I goofed

>>383990384
what limitations?

>>383990384
Never going to happen. They'd lose a decades worth of content.

>>383990184
Gilneas wasn't alliance at the time. Regardless of who started the war totally Alliance, Garrosh did order the invasion of an unaffiliated kingdom

Southshore had to have happened after Gilneas because they delayed the invasion of Gilneas because Sylvanas wasn't present and Gilneas happened during/after the cataclysm which was after alliance invaded the barrens.
So, Southshore was after the alliance started the war

>>383980483
>10 man
>"raiding"

Pick one casual. Most MMOs treat 10mans as just a full party, let alone a raid.

>>383990317
Never ever, because it'll just apply to everything because blizz is too lazy to make it only apply to cloth/naked and I don't want my plate armour jiggling.

>>383990254
Sure why not
Games that the phrase "It looked worse than games that came out in the same year, lagged, desynced people, had mobs glitching all over, it was not new or polished and certainly not unique" applies to
>Everquest
>Runescape
>Final Fantasy XI
>Final Fantasy XIV
>Aion
>Star Wars Galaxies
>Dungeons and Dragons Online
>Literally every game released that wasn't the best looking game released that year

You're a faggot and Everquest literally let you order pizza in-game in case your hemmorhoids hurt too much to make it to the phone after a 35 minute long fight where your faggot guild zerged a sega Saturn looking Cyclops

>>383990272
>>383990317

Dwarf Females have had titty jiggle physics since Vanilla.

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>>383990434
Extremely stiff models.
General world size.
Unable to use higher quality models.

>>383990437
Didn't XIV switch to a new engine? Apparently they had a chance during Cataclysm but opted not to.

>>383990494
>I don't want my plate armour jiggling
You don't like your plate belly wobbling on Panda Warriors? Incredible work Blizz

>>383980851
>Cata was praised for its leveling zones

Every expansion has it's leveling zones praised by moronic gaming journalist who has no idea what they are talking about. The Cata zones are the second worst in all of WoW, right after WoD. Every zone was linear meme filled garbage with zero effort required.

>>383990254
everyquest looked and played like shit compared to WoW

are you happy? It helps that when WoW came around almost everyone at that point had a decent enough computer to capably run the game