MMO

Resurrect Shadowbane.

>>383889079
Let the past be the past.

prevent koreans from making them

>>383889079
BReast sliders?

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>>383889079
What ever happened to Star Citizen? Space might be the next big thing for MMORPGs but the hype around it died.

>>383889340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blPpnnSOiwk

Player-driven stories. Player-driven politics. Player-driven subpaths. No solo play.

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>>383889160
Korean and China are the most profitable user base in gaming though anon. They spend money and have far less demands for content.

A large reason why ff14 isn't as profitable as it could be is because it flopped in Korea and China.

>>383889079
Big tits and good, innovative gameplay

>>383889079
It's dead, Jim. Let it go.

>>383889340
Eve online is still a thing right? Just too hard for normies to get into. It also has a semi-kind of breast slider

>>383889506
We are talking about making MMOs great again right? Sure shitty korean garbage might get you somewhere with profits, but it wont be a good game. They inevitably will get NEXONed

No microtransactions. Subscription only.

>>383889079
make them hard enough that it forces player communication and cooperation, even for leveling.

remove any auto-queue for dungeons/raids etc

>>383889652

I've been playing a lot of even since november. Really gotten into it.

>>383889681
What's shitty to you, isn't shitty to someone else so it's all subjective isn't it though.

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>>383890062
>implying my taste isnt objectively superior

Get rid of raiding and implement grindy difficult shit instead, and only content at a maximum of 5 highly skilled people instead of juggling 19(24 with reserves) fuckwits who you absolutely hate for the sole purpose of logging in at a specific time to get loot, then fucking off until the next predetermined meeting.

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>>383890248
What people didn't get is that you were never supposed to grind MMOs. You were supposed to just play through it, find an adventure, and enjoy whatever you got. You were never supposed to have 3+ chars that were all max level and had the best loot. The level cap was supposed to be a level only for a few people to hold, not the norm.

>>383889079
Create a separated server for ERP and sell lewd costumes and sex animations on cash shop.

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>>383889079
>Again

>>383889079
More adventure, and a larger focus on Multiplayer.

Make EVE but decrease the autism a little.

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>>383889079
Make Vindictus 2

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>>383889079
By bring back city of heroes so I have a reason to enjoy life again

>>383889079
Accept that "massively" is just an expensive gimmick and focus on delivering a co-op game with a big hub area, instsnced missions/quests and with other MMO features.

All the people who want to play an mmorpg, already are. There is more choice than ever.

The ones who say the genre has a problem were never mmorpg fans to begin with, they were nothing more than band-wagoners who quit a game in a month.

>>383890062
Then why make this thread?

>>383889652
>Too hard for normies.
No. It's a game that you play through drop down menus. That's not enjoyable or engaging for pretty much everyone except the autistic. Also the game doesn't reward your character's level/skill level for playing well/ playing the game longer then others. The only way to increase skills is to set a book and pay for subscriptions. That's why Eve is not appealing to normies.

>>383889079
Good game design. Every MMO so far has had hack game design revolved around copypasting the same systems.

We can't.
Those times you reminisce of are gone. You have changed and you'll never experience a game the same way when you had more spare time and it was all new and exciting.

>>383891236
>Played MMOs since UO when I was 9 years old.
>Played Asheron's call for 4 years.
>Played WoW until i was 25.
>After WothLK started to dislike the MMO genre.
Tell me anon, where's the MMO that fits my tastes that isn't a themepark daily quest grind? Cause most MMOs are now WoW Clones with Anime Avatars.

>>383890062
are you pro korean mmo?

>>383891959
Tibia, of course.

>>383891881
Good game design. Every FPS so far has had hack game design revolved around copypasting the same systems.

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>>383890642

t. clueless newfag.

>muh sacred level cap
>muh shit is supposed to be rare, so don't grind, or else it won't be as rare anymore

fucking brainlet, can't even name a single relevant game that follows his example.

>>383890962
one of the best combat systems to date. Shame everything else about the game was dogshit

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>>383892575
Maybe it's still the best choice, but it's been casualized recently

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>>383889381

MMO's were ever good? they are all skinner boxes.
Their main design is to addict people using operant conditioning before they realize that the game isn't fun.

Name 1 (one) MMO that at some point was not shit. You can't.

>>383889079
Require players to actually cooperate in them, like Planetside 2. The #1 problem is all these themepark MMOs are actually just singleplayer games taking place in a shared space, and as singleplayer games they are absolutely awful, so they suck all around.

>>383893286
now that i think of it... planetside !

>MMO thread
>people complaining about grind

every
fucking
time

>>383893302
How do you make people cooperate with one another if they hate each other?

>>383893434
>there are only MMOs with grinding

MMO gene is dead as long as WOW is "alive".

>>383889079
make a fantasy eve online

I'm waiting for Lost Ark Online. I doubt it'll ever come to the West though. It's the Kingdom Underfire 2 of the decade.

>>383893475

grinding is part of the package, if you can't accept it then MMOs aren't for you

>>383893669
No, it's really not. Just because you have only tasted shit doesn't mean there isn't anything better out there.

>>383890642
What exactly are you basing any of this on?

>>383892845
runescape
wait wait i already know your response
>relevant
there we go i saved us about 10 minutes of back and forth shitposting

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>>383891897
I love this argument. Nobody's even talking about nostalgia and the people who loved WoW are still playing WoW or FF14 since they're the same high budget trash. Anon in these threads are talking about the legion of stillbirth MMO's that get pumped out by studios who have no business designing a game. Studios who pump millions into creating assets for something that's destined to fail because they aren't doing anything worthwhile with them. If you really think the genre hasn't been a creative desert since the times when it was a new concept then you must have your head in the sand. Iterating on manipulating player addiction habits and marketing a branded pile of shit with your inflated budget to make more money isn't creative design, it's good business. So what are you talking about?

Besides the obvious problems of shit gameplay etc. lots of MMO's nowadays follow a design path that leads to a shitload of competing content that has no reoccurring value making a majority of locations player ghost towns. Studios designing decentralized content with no enjoyable player motivations are killing their own games off. What good is a profession or crafting system if it feels like a fucking chore? Why have items in a game that don't have persistent value and clog up a limited inventory space? Nobody enjoys this shit. Some people play MMOs as if they're living their life inside the game but they'll always be the whale minority since most people have too much daily responsibility to enjoy this. There can be no mass appeal without easy to grasp, well designed systems on top of good gameplay imo. A great story is just icing but icing that is rarely ever made well.

>>383893712

tell me a single MMO that doesn't require grind, then

>>383893441
People cooperated in Planetside. What's the issue? Give people the chance to play with their friends and there's no problem then.

>>383893793
Shadowbane

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>>383889079
Actually not boring gameplay to make grinding fun.

Like pic related

>>383889340
Elite dangerous is actually playable, but I doubt it'll ever get space legs

>unplayable with ships and walking
>playable with just ships

Pick one

>>383893738

>runescape

yeah lets discuss gaia online while we're at it

>>383893821
>MMO
>interact with people
>the only people you interact with are you friends and guild mates

Kind of defeats the entire point of socializing with people if you only interact with your circle.

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>>383893838
>2003 dead as fuck game

is that the best you can do

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-MMOs cannot be great again, not in this day and age of "I want everything in my mouth NOW!".
-Word of mouth is also not a thing anymore because of things like wiki, reddit, and more.
-Because it's so easy to just datamine the games, there's no more mystery to be found aswell.
-The very structure of MMO internet connection haven't changed since fucking UO too.

All I want is a VR mmo where I can be an anime tank

>>383893990
>moving the goalpost
Grinding is not necessary to make an MMO work.

>>383894002
Isn't there a way to defend against datamining?

>>383894054
As long as they are on PC, nope.

>>383893979
it's got 50k concurrent players on average anon

>>383894054
Cease and desist anyone that uploads the datamines

>>383894074
Can't you place a hot fix patch on the day of the patch that randomly changes shit up and apply other hot fixes periodically that change simple things like values or whatever to make fights less, you know, plannable?

See, this is why I want Lost Ark Online as it's doing the exploration thing again. Since there are, I believe, partially random treasure locations hidden everywhere, some of which require skills to get too. Though I think it's sadly largely instanced like Guild Wars 1. It's the only MMO I've been looking forward to but it'll be Korean P2W garbage I bet.. They can't resist.

>>383894054
>>383894074
Everything serversided can be protected from dataminers. It's just that developers usually don't give a shit and just want their MMO to be as cheap as possible.

>>383889079
Albion (medieval Eve) is about to be released. Full loot pvp and focus on guild play.

>>383894165
There will always be someone else to pick up the work, and they will just share it behind 7 proxy.

>>383894046

if you can only name a single dead MMO from 13 years ago to prove your point then by all means I'm right in what I said.

All current, successful MMOs involve grind in some way or other, even if it doesn't involve the main story. Grinding is fun, but not for everyone.

>>383893953
I played 800 hours of warframe
It got real fucking boring to pump rounds of whatever toptier gun into whatever new boss for 10 seconds until the spaghetti script fucks up and makes it invincible for 20 more seconds

The damage scaling in that game is so broken its hilarious. You either 1 shot everything or you're fighting a scripted boss where damage barely matters and 5/100 warframe abilities are actually usable. and melee is still dogshit, it was better before melee 2.0

Because they focus on the looks rather than the gameplay and interaction.

>>383894275
What a surprise I've seen regular threads about it popping up... It's pointless, lad. It'll fail.

>>383889079

Cater more to people that actually want to play MMOs and not to people that hate them passionately.

>>383894324
>I played 800 hours
>It got real fucking boring

gee, I wonder why it got boring

>>383894275
>Full loot pvp
In this day and age?
I'm sorry Anon, but it's DoA.

>>383889079
Become a 15-year-old again.

>>383893980
But people ARE working together then. They just need a social outlet, like a group of friends, and then people will work towards a unified goal with the other players. Players interacted with each other in Planetside all the time.

Or, a survival game like Rust, where players are all trying to kill each other. Opposite end of the spectrum of multiplayer, but players are still directly interacting with each other there. These are the games that are putting the multiplayer aspect to effective use, even if you aren't a fan of them.

>>383893953

Grinding in Warframe isn't fun though. The movement is fun and some of the abilities are neat and that's about it.

Not even the weapons are all that fun and get done by games like Defiance, which isn't even supposed to be as futuristic or alien as Warframe.

>>383894310
That's the only PvP MMO I played. Yes, PvE requires grinding because you literally can't make PvE challenging otherwise. World first boss kills rely on who can kill the boss faster in shit, unoptimized gear.
PvP is the only thing that requires actual skill in video games and this thread is how to make MMOs great again. It's certainly not by playing against scripted AI.

I'm just gonna do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAmn4x2r-O8

This is what I want, I've said it a few times. If they can pull this off, I'll be happy. If you got 20 mins, watch the entire thing. Make sure English subtitles are enabled.

If you got another 10 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLWSD9UN6qM

>>383894263
Content is saved on client side to reduce connection issues (for both the player and the server).
Keeping things like dialogues and descriptions on server only is just a waste, even if it will protect the content from dataminers for the short time it is relevant.

more sluts
voicechanger built into game
sexual content in game
also more pvp focussed games

>>383894324
>he doesn't do endless survivals with friends and challenges

You should really come back, they're actually bringing Umbra,open world area 3sqkm big with world boss sentients and custom weapon crafting.

Also what the hell do you mean melee is dogshit, people are always complaining it's too op and easy.

>>383894554
Name an MMO that had funner gameplay besides maybe vindictus cuz that shit was cool.

You're in luck OP, there's a really, really good one coming out in 7 days

>>383894586
>Yes, PvE requires grinding because you literally can't make PvE challenging otherwise.
Not true. PvE only lacks challenge so that the average player doesn't get BTFO every time they leave a hub by themselves. If you average MMO mob actually had some type of AI and forced the player to adapt to various situations instead of relying on a bread and butter attack rotation that fits all situations they will ever encounter. Example, XIV dropped elemental damage/weaknesses for that reason.

>>383894843

Which is...?

>>383889079
Make them single-player leveling focused with challenging combat, engaging quests that aren't just "kill 30 boars", and a large focus on atmosphere through environments and music. Don't make raids and instead focus on adding zones with quest content that all players can complete. Don't add any form of PvP.

Grouping in MMOs is dead. No one has the time to commit to it any more, except for no life virgins who are a minority. Single-player MMOs are the future.

>>383895021
http://felmyst.com/

>>383895130

Oh... no thanks.

>>383894832
>Name an MMO that had funner gameplay
Depends. Are you going to shooter down every old school MMO I bring up because it doesn't pretend to be a 3D brawler?

>>383895010
AI is the easiest shit to break with the dumbest of tactics. It's just not feasible.
There is literally nothing better than playing against other people.

>>383895225
I said fun not point and click adventures

make a MMO where you can kill and steal other peoples gear and money. forcing people to travel more in groups and interact with eachother.

>>383895265
>AI is the easiest shit to break with the dumbest of tactics.
Only when you have easy answers to everything you'll come across. Older MMOs were generally perceived to be harder because you had to be prepared for some of your encounters. If you weren't you either retreated or died.

I mean really think about it. Modern MMOs started having to introduce shit like rage timers and tank busters because your average pairing of one tank with one healer could withstand anything by themselves. All they had to do was avoid the glowing circles.

>>383895321

Then you're messing around in the wrong genre then.

>>383895789
>prepared
>grinding encounter specific shit
Braindead grinding requires no skill. PvE should be removed from MMOs.

>>383895909
>PvE should be removed from MMOs.
how to spot a worthless retard in an MMO thread
>I want an MMO that caters to ME, not the general populace that will actually keep it afloat

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>>383895842
but, anon I want vido gems to be fun :(

>>383890062
>nuh uh man it's all subjective nuh uh
What the fuck is the point of even arguing if you're just going to backpedal like a bitch.

>>383895909
You don't even need to tie preparation strictly to grinding. It can be as simple as buying it from a store/buying from someone that's willing to do the grind or flat out recruiting people with the appropriate skill set you need in comparison to what you have.

>>383896012
>popular
>good
Again you mouthbreathing fucking mongoloid cockgoblin, this thread is how to make MMOs great, not the next pure fucking shit like mobas and whatever casual women play.

>>383896073

No, you want games to be a certain type of way even when certain genres have a hard time of tailoring to that demand due to real world limitations.

>>383895675
>. forcing people to travel more in groups and interact with eachother.
Fuck that. Popular twitch streamers would have their own mini armies.

>>383889079
kill all normies

make ganking great again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TSGUf1xbF8

>>383893953
"Not-boring" gameplay can't make grinding fun, and your pic is the prime example of it. Grinding isn't just about how you do it, but also what you get from it and if it is enough to make you go for the next step.
Warframe definitively is fun, jumping and shooting and shit are all cool, but grinding just never feels rewarding. Most of the best stuff is very easy to get if you know how to do it, but optimizing it isn't really worth the trouble. The game is also full of dead ends ("gear progression"-wise) and the game will indirectly punish you for picking the "wrong" choices (like everything that looks or plays like a bow, and anything related to archwing, especially the "playing it at all" part), so finding out stuff by yourself isn't as interesting as it could be. You either read get information from someone else or hit your head against the wall and get frustrated, having a negative impact on the actual fun part of the game.

>>383896172
How the fuck would you get the money? Oh, grinding?
>inb4 trading
You need to start somewhere.

>>383895029
>describing every modern mmo since WoW

Are you actually retarded or just baiting?

>>383894645
>more sluts
>sexual content in game
>also more pvp focussed games
So, Conan Sexiles?

>>383896373
or it's just I don't want copycat mechanics

>>383896659
>How the fuck would you get the money? Oh, grinding?
Or just doing content? Grind only comes into play when economy is balanced a certain way.

When people understand that what's important in an MMO are the stories the players create, not what the developers create.
That's when MMOs become great again.

>>383896796
>doing content
>collecting wolf pelts
Literally braindead grinding.

Remove that DPS/Tank/Heal trinity bullshit, give players more control over stat and skill allocation.

>>383897054
why? specific roles are the most important and fun part about mmos.

>>383896951

So enemies should never drop any loot at all? Being you're really just being obtuse for no reason.

>>383895909
>PvE should be removed from MMOs

If pvp is the only thing you're interested in, why do you even want to play a MMO? There's a metric fuckton of games out right now that cater to your particular taste (FPS, mobas, Lineage II mods if you REALLY want to only pvp in a huge shared world for some reason).

>>383897054
But classes and roles are one of the main things that makes MMOs fun.

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>>383896606
>no Scatman
boo
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wt28c

>>383897142
Loot is fine but it should not be the focus.

>>383897147
Because there is nothing else that provides fantasy PvP.

>>383897336
>fantasy PvP
DotA?

>>383897471
>mobas

>>383897471
Oh my fucking god you braindead moba shitters need to kill yourselves.
Stop annoying me with your genre a fucking cripple could play.

>>383897259
>>383897139
There can still be classes, but this way they can have actual builds, actual variety. If you play a Priest you're not pigeonholed into being the support, if you play Knight you're not stuck being DPS, maybe a DPS can be a tank. Maybe, you can just solo or have the best party build around its your decision now that you don't absolutely need a party to level.

>>383896671
>Are you actually retarded or just baiting?
No
>describing every modern mmo since WoW
That's not true, modern MMOs are still trying to cater to everyone and making everyone unhappy in the process. The ideal MMO wouldn't cater to the endgame no-lifers or PvPer's at all

>>383889079
Small tits, interactive worlds.

>>383897521
You said "nothing else that provides fantasy PvP", I just gave you an simple example (as shitty as it is, DotA have both "fantasy" and "PvP").
There is also that not-sequel to Chivalry (Arcane Warfare, I think), if assfaggots triggers you so much.

>>383894832
a fuckin instanced co-op pve is not MMO

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>>383889079
Have you seen this yet?

>>383897635
i don't know what mmo you're citing but wow has what you are describing.

>>383897750
It's all shallow shit, there is literally nothing else.

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>>383897782
The official site would like to say otherwise anon :)

You can't un-ruin MMOs. People only care about the endgame grind and view anything beside it as a nuisance. You'll never have another everquest, Runescape or Vanilla WoW. If you offer them interesting quests they'll rush through them for the reward, if you give them an interesting world they'll just find an optimal levelling route to skip as much of it as possible.

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>>383889079
>no MMORPG ever has used the "random veteran/elite mob" system from Diablo-likes

It's just a small thing and doesn't really help with the big issues, but I still don't understand why no one has done this yet.

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I don't understand why people would want the least grind available in mmos.

Grind is very important, be it just exping in some zone or farming instances. It makes you actually want to play the game to progress, not just do vintage "go there kill mobs and come back" missions that get you to the level cap in one week. Because at the endgame usually you have nothing to do, or it randomly switches from casual experience to hardcore daily grind to get the best grind available.

Obviously it's better to also give certain "checkpoints" at some levels that make people want to reach them for reasons other than simply leveling up. Motivation.

>>383898245
>the best grind available
meant to write "the best gear available" obviously

>>383897808
Actually I had Ragnarok Online in mind, I wasted time with it instead of WoW.

>>383897635
>but this way they can have actual builds, actual variety
I prefer a "more classes" approach, I feel that it gives more sense of variety while offering a similar amount of efficient playstyles. For example (a very simple one, but that is the general idea), the game should have a knight that is good with sword'n'board and a berserker that is good with 2handers, instead of just a warrior that can be good at sword'n'board or 2-handers, plus tons of dead-end builds.
>Maybe, you can just solo or have the best party build around its your decision now that you don't absolutely need a party to level.
Tons of MMOs are like that these days, being a healslut isn't that inefficient to level anymore.

>>383889340
Discerning backers obtained refunds. Everybody else saw the $15K ships, said 'aw shit' and walked away.

>>383897790
Don't post vaporware anon.

>>383889079
remove all antisocial and handholding features
no instancing, ever
no teleporting to dungeons or boss fights. If you want to get somewhere, you fucking walk/ride
no pve servers
pvp on all the time, including inside cities and towns with small safe areas inside
player driven economy and infrastructure systems
remove hotbar based combat

i think this should be a good start to fixing MMOs

>>383898591
sounds like you should give minecraft a try

>>383897915
Well, what "something else" would be? PvE is a good option, but if you are still the same anon from the previous posts, you wanted a MMO without it.

jump on the next hype train as soon as it launches

VR MMO SoonTM

>>383898591
And it will never sell.
New players will drop it due to twatfucks camping them since no safe zones

One thing that I hate about modern MMOs is how often the only difference between two classes is their rotation and the colour of their spells. You choose a Warlock or another evil Wizard of some sort and all you get is a mage with black spells and maybe some DOT but you really never get to do any Warlock-y stuff like demonic rituals or human sacrifice

>>383898613
minecraft is an incomplete game now designed around building stuff and being "creative" instead of about controlling territory, forming clans and mining for resources.

so i dont know why you would suggest that

>>383898769
it has all of those things and more, especially modded
if this sounds ridiculous it's because what you're asking for is

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Did anyone play my favorite Korean grindfest back in the day? It was the apex of PvP MMOs.

>>383897635
Some MMOs already function like this, they just don't announce it endlessly like Guild Wars 2 pretended to do. As an example, City of Heroes had classes that could specialize in one role, but could be built into another or even multiple roles at once.

Scrappers and Stalkers were primarily single target DPS focused on crit damage for high burst damage, but with a good build and some expensive "gear" you could have similar survivability to a tank just without the important tank-related powers like AoE taunts and CCs. You could take a support focused class and with some build knowledge, turn them into a debuffing CC, debuffing DPS, or even a debuffing tank. You could take a tank and build them to shit out insane AoE DPS while still keeping the other classes relevant because of your lack of single target DPS and no form of debuff mitigation. I just want my game back

>>383898730
its my laundry list of things that I think would make MMOs interesting experiences. no one said it had to sell. Of course it wouldn't sell, what I've suggested is frankly hostile to your average contemporary MMO player.

They're so used to being surrounded by a virtual blanket all the time they are terrified by the idea of remotely interesting.

Player driven infrastructure could take care of the camping problem. People team up to form alliances, as their strength grows they could control territory, act as "guards" for areas. Players would pay them for protection, as well as access to areas etc.

I would also add dropping stuff on death to my list. It would add risk / reward.

>>383899009
it doesn't really. what I want is a return to late 90s/early 00s MMOs. This will eventually happen after MMOs die out and go underground again. You'll get a generation of indie devs creating interesting experiences which will then be co-opted and pacified for mainstream audiences.

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I miss UO

It's too bad the client doesnt support above 800x600

>>383898591
Sounds like EVE

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>>383898591
>play new Y - Online - Directed and Shilled by AnonP
>create new character and start on the babby town
>as soon as I step out of the adventurer guild a group of with a group of players with neon weapons and slutty outfits kills me in an instant
>shit keeps happening for the next 30 minutes
>wonder if I'm doing something wrong, go to forum to look for answers
>"lol stop being such baby git gud fagtron" - BoipussyDestroyer666 (Good Goyim Early Access Pack title)
>uninstall game
>8 months later, on a taiwanese picture sharing forum
>"why MMOs are so dead, Y Online was the greatest thing ever why it died so fast, fucking casuals ruining everything this genre is dead reee"
Just like my jewish pyramid schemes!

>>383889079
MMO now and MMO back around ~2000 had different meanings.

MMOs today are mostly single player games that you're forced to play alongside a bunch of other people. grinding used to be synonymous with MMOs but kids today don't have the attention span so everything is instant gratification. Do they even make you level your character to max in new MMOs nowadays?

>>383899165
UO did a lot of what you suggest, but they removed it during UO Renaissance because too many people we're upset with being killed by a gang of thugs in the wilderness and losing everything they had. I even had a few occasions where I was hunting Ettins just outside of Britian to up my sword/healing/anat and had a group roll up and kill me. Lost all my gear. And it was clear I wasn't rich or had anything of real value. It was all basic armor/weapons. People did that to be dicks in UO and was a reason lots of folks went to private shards.

>>383899491
Blizzard hands out Character boosts like candy now.

Good mmo
>Kill 100 gorillas to get something you want

Bad mmo
>Kill 100 gorillas for a 10% chance of getting somethimg you want

Shit mmo
>Kill 100 gorillas for a 10% chance of getting a FRAGMENT of something you want.

>>383899384
if this is some sort of argument for pve then all i have to say is git gud son

you would obviously design a system such that this did not happen

shit you could even be boring about it and how town guards that are literally omnipotent

the most interesting thing would be to design systems that gave this control to the player however.

>>383899512
its a shame they removed it entirely instead of trying to empower players by giving them the tools & solutions to solve it themselves

>>383898245
>muh endgame
This is what ruins MMOs.

"We gotta rush to endgame dude!" -t. faggot who misses the entire point of MMOs.

Ragnarok Online HD remastered.
Plus memory wipe of the entire population.

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RUH ROH...

>>383899821
In MMOs the journey to the level cap should be long and enjoyable and when you get there it should just unlock more ways of fun.

Instead it's a rush to level cap and then being disappointed with lack of content

>>383899736
>shit mmo describes every korean mmo
You can just call it korean my friend.

>>383890642
Sounds like FFXI pre-2010.

>>383897684

In that case yes but I'd prefer a more diverse market with every kind of MMO like single player MMO for turbo autists like you and other MMO for people who actually want to have fun with other players.

>>383894002
This
I can't stand playing something like FFXIV where people get autistic as shit over their logs or whatever
It's also impossible to find a group to run through a dungeon the first time with, instead it's the same tired fag leveling his 12th class that wants to do it in record time

MMOs are ONLY great when you play them with friends and do them blind

>>383897336
>Because there is nothing else that provides fantasy PvP

Dota, LoL and every other fantasy moba out there, that Chivalry sequel that was already mentioned, fantasy survival games (Conan and there were a few others, I think), any fantasy RTS that still has servers up, as of at least 2 years ago, Rune still had servers running, For Honor, if there isn't a fantasy battle royale game yet, then I'm sure someone will put one up in early access soon etc

In other words - there's a fuckton of things that provide fantasy pvp in a lot of different flavors, without trying to shoehorn that mode in primarily pve-oriented games.

>>383899736
so the drop rate on one gorilla in the bad mmo is 1 in 1000, or each one has a 10% chance to drop the item?

>>383889079
we need bigger tits.

>>383900248
Maybe the quest has random rewards so you kill 100 for a 10% on the faggot villager giving you gorillabane.

>>383894054
A combination of encryption and that idea EQ Next had (at least on paper) to have every server have its own, partially player-driven history should make maintaining comprehensive wikis like Wowhead pretty difficult, if not impossible.

The problem is - it requires a technology investment no company is willing to take at the moment. Better wait until Elon Musk decides to make a MMO.

>>383889340
>>383889340
3.0 is going to release soon and they are alive and well don't listen to /v/tards

>>383900248
No you kill 100 gorillas to complete a repeatable mission, which has a 10% chance of giving you the reward you wanted.

>>383900109
doesn't sound anything like FFXI. even in 2005 I had 3 level 75 jobs. possibly making a relic weapon could be compared to what he says. there were few people who had them before they increased the level cap

>>383900446
gotcha. random quest rewards are awful

>>383889340
https://youtu.be/6AiNxbv-a9s

>>383900459
wasn't that that mmo with the raid boss that wasn't killed for two years and the super-special weapons that only like 60 people had

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>Cuhrazzy Action Combat
>Really in-depth character customization
>NO Cash Shop
>NO SERIOUSLY
>NO FUCKING CASH SHOP
>MAKE IT A P2P SUB MMO FOR ALL I CARE
>BUT
>NO
>FUCKING
>CASH
>SHOP

There I fixed MMOs, thank me later.
Sadly we're never going to see something like that because devs/publishers are all greedy jews.

>>383894376
800 hours really isn't all that much for an MMO.

>>383900584
>Cuhrazzy Action Combat
Does your game come with a dedicated fiber optic line for every new subscriber?

>>383900540
yup. for quite a few years of the game's life there were probably only a couple thousand super-special weapons in existence.

>>383900602
i cringed every time i looked at my play time in FFXI when i resubbed briefly last summer. even if i cut the time in half to account for leaving the game on 24 hours when i was afk/sleeping and wanted to sell shit, it's still pretty bad

>>383899756
>you would obviously design a system such that this did not happen
Every MMO that tried to do it failed, and the open-world PvP (or the game as a whole) died in the process. Karma system? Making death meaningless? Remove any potential rewards from doing it? Level range limitations? It always sounds good on paper, but it never works as intended in the end ("towns with small safe areas inside" certainly won't work either).
The problem isn't about PvP or PvE or anything related to the game itself, it is all about the players and the fact they can be assholes. Is it fun to be an asshole? Sure, but someone have to be the butt of the joke, and that is one less potential costumer if he never gets a chance to "force" this title on someone else. In the end, it becomes a pyramid scheme, the first ones to join gets all the good stuff and people late to the party simply get fucked.
Free-for-all, no-safe-space PvP like that only works well if the game is focused in PvP itself, and that means minimal PvE interaction (MMO-kind of PvE, like grinding for levels and gear on mobs and shit). If everyone is on the same level of "power" (limited only by the player itself, not fixed in-game rules like levels and shit), then yeah, "git gud" and all that shit, learn to avoid ganks and so on. Outside of that, the whole thing is destined to fail.

>>383899736
>Kill 100 gorillas for a 10% chance of getting a FRAGMENT of something you want.
That is basically Dungeon Fighter Online, and shit still is as popular as ever.

>>383900880
more games need something like that. super-rare gear that elevates like a handful of players to legendary status for having, that there isn't a guaranteed timesink or amount of money could acquire. like sure it would probably infuriate players and lead to some deaths-by-poopsocking but why not have some stuff that matters

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>>383900856
>Action Combat needs tons of bandwidth meme

STOP. It's the devs that are too lazy/shitty to get it done not the hardware limitations.

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By adding bodyhair

>>383889137
Isnt Crowfall like it?

ascii rogue like mmo fucking when? imagine adventure mode dwarf fortress with players fucking everywhere. the world could be as big as you want with random generation and it can have themeparks/tailored quests thrown in.

>>383900602
>800 Hours.
>Before quitting wow during WotLK I looked at time played.
>287 Days played.
>Literally almost a year of my life lived, wasted on that game.
>Spent a fourth (1/4) of 4 years logged in to WoW.
>From Age 19 to 23 I went to work, Went to school, came home, played WoW.
>From Age 19 to 23 I spent around 6-8 hours EVERY DAY playing WoW.

And thats when I quit. The day I saw that number I knew I had a problem and I immediately uninstalled the game and canceled my subscription. I told my friends I was bored with the game. The truth was I had a crisis of the self, realized I could have played lots of other games, read books, gone places, done ANYTHING ELSE.

I want to find an MMO that can suck me in again, but I just can't fathom dumping a quarter of my life into it again.

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Most profitable mmorpg in the world for 2017.

Fantasy Westward Journey Online 2

Fantastic Westward Journey II attracts more than 250 million registered players, more than 500 servers. The con-current user figures peaked at 2.71 million.

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Just got to level 46, how the endgame?

>>383901615
never even heard of this game what is it?

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>>383901459
>with tileset

>>383901615
the most popular mmo in the world is a mobage spin-off?

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>>383901683
harvest moon

>>383901239
>bandwith

It's not about bandwidth so much as it is about latency. You try playing something CUHRAZZY when you have a ping of 400-500 and tell me how fun that is for you.

But that's a problem that is at least theoretically solvable (by having a datacenter in every state, as financially unviable as that might be, for example). One of the bigger issues is how you would combine the "super-responsive-action-combat" meme with meaningful character progression.

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>>383901797
Sounds comfy.

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>>383901615
Looks kawaii.

>>383900584
I'd rather have an action oriented MMO, with SLOWER combat. Because Korean MMOs already have everybody dashing around on the screen which makes the game look like Dragonball Z.

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>>383889079
improving physics

WoW 2

The problem with MMOs is that they consistently have bad gameplay or at the best mediocre gameplay design choices overlaid with a chat program to meet with people. But every time someone suggests something to fix it, you have people coming out of the woodwork to yell "This isn't a REAL MMO" or "MMOs are dead" and even "Well if you want to change that aspect, you clearly don't even like MMOs and are playing the wrong genre"

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>>383889079
tera was one of the best mmorpgs ive played when it was p2p, i loved the combat and dungeons

makes me so fucking mad how they let the game stagnate when it could of been so much more

>>383901615
>mobile
>based on app stores only
>no china
This way you are basically ignoring all the real gold mines.

>>383902507
TEra was burrty good until they released race locked classes.

>>383902189
Where is this from?

>>383902306
>consistently have bad gameplay
The problem is - most people have radically different definitions of "good gameplay", first and foremost.

>"Well if you want to change that aspect, you clearly don't even like MMOs and are playing the wrong genre"
Have you considered they might not be entirely wrong? At least if you're one of those people who keep asking for "action" combat. Maybe not the entire MMO spectrum of games, but MMORPGs, specifically, start to break down once twitch inputs and reaction times are significantly more important than stats and mathematical mechanics.

these threads always become a x game vs y game. why doesn't anyone compile a list of good features vs ones to avoid and then discuss those things further?

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>>383902941
Because your list of features will be different from my list of features, which will eventually devolve into shit posting at eachother's tastes.

>>383902941
because fanboys

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>>383893957
>Elite dangerous is actually playable

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>>383902616
>Want to play punchmaster
>Locked to female humans(?)
>Make a punchy brown tomboy with creamy hair
I ain't gonna complain

>>383902941
No "muh game > ur game" so far, though.
>good features vs ones to avoid
People never agree with these, except for obvious stuff ("no P2W bullshit") and very subjective concepts ("fun gameplay"). The discussion will end up being worse than "muh MMO" wars (like "what is P2W again?" discussions).

>>383903109
>>383903239
how about one thing at a time then...

vertical gear progression vs horizontal?

>>383889160
Koreans are weird, they love grinding so much they don't mind if someone can buy all the best gear for real money, which is why all of their MMOs are P2W grindfests

>>383900459
And many people took years to level to 75 because a majority of content was for people below the level cap.

> The level cap was supposed to be a level only for a few people to hold, not the norm.

>>383903453
This isn't true anymore for korean mmorpgs than it is for japanese or western ones.

>>383901203
>that there isn't a guaranteed timesink or amount of money could acquire

But that's exactly what legendary weapons in FFXI were. It just took time and the ability to manipulate people.

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>>383889079

Officially open PSO2JP to the U.S, give us our own ships then ban Europe and South America from the game.

PSO2 is the only game we need.

>>383903453
that's because grinding is fun.and we don't compare with others

>>383903453
They have the highest rates for suicide. So anything to get their minds off of the insults from other koreans and suicide is good for them especially since drugs are super illegal there.

>>383889079
they need one of those fictional super-ai born for the sole purpose of making new content, like cardinal or aura

>>383903527
wat? maybe at jp release this was true idk. when it was release in the west it came with the zilart expansion. missions might have been level capped but there certainly wasn't a majority of content for people under 75.

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>>383889079
>How can we make MMOs great again?

/vg/ still plays a lot of them.

Tree of Savior for instance

>>383903751
https://youtu.be/0CceSdR3loY

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Prohibit Brazilian and Vietnamese people from playing it.

>>383902668
>Where is this from?
Hyper universe

>>383903313
Explain because i'm too dumb to get what's horizontal and vertical gear progression

>>383903313
Horizontal > vertical, but horizontal is more difficult to implement in a way that's fun.

>>383904676
>horizontal
gear doesnt instantly become trash once they release new content. new gear is mostly just a new skin with marginally different stats

>vertical
new gear replaces all your old gear ever time a new update/expansion comes out. stats are much better on the new stuff

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>>383894324
So accurate it hurts

>>383903313
That one interesting point.
Most people will agree that horizontal is more interesting, but very few people will be able to explain how it can be more interesting without hitting the "vertical hell" eventually. Equipment plays a far bigger role in the game as a whole than people usually believe. Vertical offers a far more visible path and gives more freedom to devs to create content (focused on the content itself, rather than the tools players potentially have in their hands), so I don't thing it is a 100% bad thing.
For example, Phantasy Star Online (not exactly an MMO, but a typical RPG grindfest nonetheless). After a certain level, numbers won't be good on their own. You will need different weapons for different situations (weapon for single targets, weapon for multiple targets, ranged weapon for traps and ranged enemies if you aren't a ranged class, multiple elemental boosting weapons for magic classes), plus utility gear for various situations (S-Red blades to cast a damage/defense buff on yourself if you can't use magic, HP/TP-drain weapons so you don't have to go back to the item shop all the time, weapons that can apply debuffs like paralysis and freeze, etc). On one hand, this makes loot fun as fuck. On other hand, you will hit a invisible wall if find yourself being gang-raped by hordes of monsters because you got stun-locked to death.
Then you have Final Fantasy XIV. The game have pure vertical progression, sometimes with multiple paths to reach the same level of power ("item level"). While this means shitty, boring loot that is only good for their visual aspect, this also means that content can be designed with player's skill in mind, since the devs don't have to worry about wherever the player have a HP-drain weapon cheesing a mechanic or not. Content have to be cleared as intended. I wanted to expand it more but I just reached the post limit, and nobody will read a giant wall of text anyway.

Make the entire game revolve around player interaction.

All possible services that you could think of would be player driven. Want to buy a mount? Look up a wrangler. Need some wood? Find yourself a lumberjack. Want the lay of the land and a detailed map of an area? Hire a cartographer to make one (who in turn will hire a scout to get the data he needs to make the map) etc etc.

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Division, but actually keep adding content on a regular basis.

>>383904974
I think when a new expansion is released your current endgame gear should still be sufficient but only for a while. Depending on how many levels the expansion itself adds, let's say the base max lvl is 100 and the expansion raises it to 110, your gear should be enough to still do well until lvl 105, after that it should be changed.

>>383905068
>content can be designed with player's skill in mind

That is not a good thing when it comes to RPGs, since it basically requires all player-controlled variables (gear, class features and mechanics and even pathable areas in maps) to be designed in a very generic and bland way to allow the player to fill a "role" (tank, healer, DD) instead of capitalizing on customization and niche features/loot.

>>383905335
This has been one of the design pillars of my dream-MMO for the past few years.

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Is Black Desert Online any good? I tried getting into WoW right after Cataclysm started but I was turned off and only made it to level 30.

I usaully like to play by myself, just going from place to place, exploring and doing quests. I'm not really into PvP either. Is it for me or will I never be able to break into the MMO genre?

>>383905335
so real life, but in a videogame? sounds like a blast.

>>383905068
I read it friend. needed more reddit spacing to reduce eye strain but i powered through. wouldn't the vertical progression be less about player skill? i never played ffxiv very long. from what i gathered from a friend you complete x event to get gear to do y event to do z event. is this not the case?

>>383902668
>The problem is - most people have radically different definitions of "good gameplay",
No, they actually don't. Taste isn't AS subjective as people think it is. There's actually a pretty good reason why when something is well like, a majority of people like it (Super Mario), and when something is hated, a majority of people hate it (Shaq Fu).

>Have you considered they might not be entirely wrong?
Yes, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably not.

>but MMORPGs, specifically, start to break down once twitch inputs and reaction times are significantly more important than stats and mathematical mechanics.
Explain Monster Hunter and Phantasy Star?

>>383905596
You can try FFXIV. It has a trial version that lets you play till level 35

>>383905612
Yeah, like real life except you can actually do whatever you want without needing to worry about surviving.

You can't just pick up an axe, find a patch of forest (good luck with finding unowned land, goyim) and start hacking away and then sell the wood and expect to make a living out of it in real life. But in an MMO that worked like the post you quoted, you could.

>>383903313
I'm biased because FFXI was my favorite MMO, but horizontal gear progression doesn't work unless gear swapping during fights is allowed.

here is how we fix MMOs:

>stop catering to casuals, and balancing around them
>real consequences upon death, lost items, lost EXP, etc
>full pvp, no pve safety shit
>huge world bosses that require 100s of people to take down
>huge raids, 40-man minimum
>no "dungeon finders" or auto-queues
>no "battlegrounds" or arenas

if you disagree with the above, you are an MMO casual, and you ruined the genre for the rest of us

>>383889137
>Bring back a shitty game that couldn't sustain itself because it was shitty

>>383906063
>Full pvp, no pve safety shit

So a game that is ruled by roving gangs that have a barrier of entry so harsh that it will die within the first few months?

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>>383906063
>load in game for the first time
>get killed by Dr4GONSOUL4774
>respawn
>die again
>quit
what a fantastic idea you have there anon

>>383906063
>real consequences upon death, lost items, lost EXP, etc
that doesn't sound like a lot of fun

>>383906212
Was a ton of fun in L2.

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>>383906180
>>383906185
>>383906212
casuals spotted

>>383906063
>stop catering to casuals, and balancing around them
yes
>real consequences upon death, lost items, lost EXP, etc
yes. exp loss as long as exp is actually meaningful.
>full pvp, no pve safety shit
would never work. first people to play the game have an advantage and would just grief people until the game mods do something about it
>huge world bosses that require 100s of people to take down
yes
>huge raids, 40-man minimum
required 40 man minimum, no. you would be inviting random shitters, and if you have half shitters, the fight can obviously be done with 20 skilled players.
>no "dungeon finders" or auto-queues
yes
>no "battlegrounds" or arenas
no. theres a place for these.

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>>383906063
>I don't want my MMO to make any money: The Post!

Each of your features/requests individually could be worked into a game, however altogether they're a recipe for a failure.

>>383898591
Sounds autistic

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>What if korean studios can finally do porn games?

>>383906180
>So a game that is ruled by roving gangs that have a barrier of entry so harsh that it will die within the first few months?

Worked just fine for the early MMOs, most of which are still running to this day.

>>383906185

Just because you suck at the game, doesn't mean it's shit.

>>383906212
>that doesn't sound like a lot of fun

To someone with no taste for challenge, and a penchant for being a lazy cunt, I'm sure glad it doesn't.

>>383906401
It's not casual to acknowledge that a full PvP game will be invariably ruled by two or three large groupings and anyone outside of those groups might just as well not play the game.

And when those groups are BR_MeGusta, иди нaхyй and 农场长时间, that leaves very little incentive for anyone else to play.

>>383906063
>Raids minimum 40man
Do you know why WoW dropped raids to 25 man? because they gathered data and realized in 40 man raids, about 20-30 people actually did anything, and then you had the 10ish people that were just kind of there dicking around. 40 Man raids are dumb. Trying to coordinate 40 people into a cohesive unit without real consequences is near impossible. And then we add DKP and dumb shit like that and it becomes "Well I have to raid with these retards for 4 months before I even have a CHANCE at seeing gear.

>>383906283
>>383906401
>>383906595
Never played Lineage 2. A big part of MMOs (at least for me) is dicking around and often this results in death. How was this handled in L2?

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>>383906063
>stop catering to casuals, and balancing around them
>huge world bosses that require 100s of people to take down
>huge raids, 40-man minimum

>>383906657
eve online is full pvp, this simply doesn't happen

>>383901265
Holy shit. How is this acceptable? Graphics and artstyle are awful. Combat is WoW and is literally clunky. Has this mmorpg any redeeming quality besides the name and music?

>>383905735
Please stop advertising your shit game. He didn't ask for your waifu simulator, he asked about another. I know your game is dying, but stop trying to conscript more people into it.

>>383906595
None of those games are running in their original forms retard.
>UO removed open world PVP, now oyu have to go to an alternate world to do so.
>Asheron's Call is gone.
>Everquest is gone.
>WoW Open world PvP became a joke the moment they introduced Flying MOunts to everywhere.

>>383906670
do you know why wow became shit after the first expansion? because they catered to little gear-whoring crybabies like you

>>383889340
It's still, and always will be, in development. Literally a collection of trailers and 15000 dollar virtual space ships

>>383906691
>how was this handle in L2
The majority of players left. The Brazilians moved in. And now it runs on life support.

>>383906745
The hell it is. There's high-security sectors where any sort of hostility will get you fucked in the ass by the NPC police force.

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>>383906063
>full pvp, no pve
you were so close

>>383906760
no. its WoW with FF themes and styles

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>>383892941
>tfw they'll never change the game engine from source to something decent

>>383906745
High Sec areas exist. They're are essentially safe spaces that can only be violated by throwing wads of currency at. UO was the same thing, if you could kill the guy before someone said Guards, you could violate safety of towns.

>>383906867
>he doesnt know what suicide ganking is, and that it happens all the time

>>383906063
Any good ideas in this pile?

>>383906829
Only the most autistic people enjoyed 40 man raids. There's a reason AV is the most hated BG. Coordinating 40 retards isn't easy or even enjoyable when it works.

>>383906063
>I want a gankbox

>>383906927
see
>>383906963

>>383905663
>Taste isn't AS subjective as people think it is.
Except it is? Otherwise such a thing as niche games wouldn't exist. Unless you're saying that every game that doesn't conform to your generic standard of "good" gameplay is unpopular (in which case you'd be wrong).

>Explain Monster Hunter and Phantasy Star?
MH is actually a pretty good example of fairly twitch combat paired with an in-depth stat system, personally I think it only works because of the small scale. Basically, each game has a fairly limited scope of X quests, which you finish, gear up and then everything resets in the next game. In a MMORPG, however, you'd have no hard reset and eventually stats would scale to the point where the outcome of a fight would be decided by how much +dmg and +def you had on your character rather than your rolling ability or mastery of THE CLAW.

Never play PSO, so can't comment on that.

>>383906595
>Worked just fine for the early MMOs
UO patched that shit out in one of the later updates.

>>383906829
>Gear-whoring means I don't want to make WoW Raiding into a second job so i can EVENTUALLY have a chance for a piece of gear I helped earn.

Sorry I'm not an autistic neet anon, better quit playing games altogether, I'm too much of a normie for your sensibilities.

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>>383907034
>I didn't read your post beyond "High Sec".

>>383906063
So your idea of fun is basically involves massive brainless zergs with zero space for personal skill and you have the courage to call other people casuals.

You are probably one of the apologists for that diarrhea WvW system of GW2, for example.

Kill yourself.

>>383906976
about half of it is.

stop catering to casuals

make death have consequences aside from having to spend 20 seconds running back to where you were

world bosses are fun as long as they're not forced that you do them

no dungeon finder. part of MMOs are socializing, or it used to be. stop being an autist and make friends or find people to help you

anyone want to refute this?

>>383906760
The combat is actually pretty different from WoW despite seeming really similar at first, and the encounters get better and better the further you go.
FFXIV has some of the best fights I've seen in any game

>>383906963
>Heh, watch this guys. I'm gonna fly this throwaway ship into the beginning high security sector and frag that noob charlie!
>But why?
>Because I'm a hardcore PvPer, of course!

Suicide ganking does exist, but it's rarely used to bully beginners. You need to be someone worth shooting up for people to do that and guess what? That usually means you have to be part of one of the big name corporations or hauling for them.

So even EVE conforms to the "Two or three big groups waving their dicks around while everyone else might just as well not play the game"

>>383889079
Let Blizzard make another MMO

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>anon makes 'this is how you create the perfect mmo' post
>all his ideas are terrible
Every damn time.

>>383907063
then maybe MMOs arent for you? i dont know what else to say here. the neutered version of MMOs that exist today are because of people with this mindset

Casuals kill MMOs. In order for MMOs to be long-lasting and fun, you need challenge and long-term goals. Casuals don't do challenge, and they certainly do not do long-term anything, they are too fickle and attention-defecit for that.

This thread is filled with casuals and casual apologists. It's no wonder that MMOs are dead when you can't find hardcore players anywhere anymore, not even on boards like this where everyone claims to be one.

Without hardcore players, there can be no more good MMOs, and this will continue into perpetuity.

Make Elin a standard race in every MMO as common as elves or orcs.

>>383907301
It would be exactly like Legion but with even more cartoony graphics and every class would have 4 skills at maximum

>>383905570
>That is not a good thing when it comes to RPGs
That is another point I wanted to expand. I agree that when the content expects you to have a minimal set of stats, and that minimal is all you can get, you are pretty much playing an action game with numbers to easily see your overall performance. Loot is one of the biggest aspects of MMOs, and I definitively miss PSO's itemization in modern games. But this "limited itemization" also gives space for a different kind of gameplay style that I enjoy too. It certainly is a complicated relationship, to balance a game to be fun not only about the fight itself (the player's expected tools vs the enemy and his challenges) but also for the preparation process (the character gear, build, optional tools that can be used on the upcoming encounter or not).

>>383905612
The thing is, since the game isn't expecting you to bring "different tools for different situations", the devs have to create some new sort of challenge, or else the game will be limited to the basic process of "get gear > tank'n'spank & gear check > get better gear". It's a controlled environment, so devs have to implement all sorts of mechanics and gimmicks to create a fun fight.

>>383905335
Wakfu is like that, or used to be at least. Even the in-game currency had to be crafted because there are no NPC buying your trash loot.
Even the fauna and flora were under the players' control (if they had enough profession level to handle it), with the possibility of forcing enemy spawn until overpopulation or even cause temporary extinction (they will eventually fuck their way back to life, or wait for a reset from a big server maintenance). This also created funny situations like someone planting and taking care of crops, then some other player popped out of nowhere and started to harvest everything while you are taking care of something else on the other side of the area, or guilds dominating specific mines but killing anyone that tried to enter them.

>>383907258
>clearly hasn't played eve for a long time

highsec is a fucking warzone these days, gramps

>>383907365
>Look at how wrong I am, I have no idea what I'm talking about. But you can't stop me lmaoooo

Casuals didn't ruin mmos, companies catering to casuals ruined mmos. If they came in, didn't like how the game was and just left there'd be no problem. Instead, companies wanted in on that extra playerbase dosh and listened to them.

>>383907258
I'm not part of your conversation but I've tried EVE six different times. Mainly through promotions and events they were having and I've had this happen to me every single time I've played.

>>383907365
in a MMO setting, challenge used to just mean grind mostly. people don't understand this and get upset when it takes 5x longer to do something in a mmo than it would in a single player game. they then complained and the company changed the game to get more subs

>>383907523
Trial periods and events like that bring with them other new people who think they are being le ebin space pirates when they attack the first ship on sight after they leave the beginning station.

>>383907471
>to balance a game to be fun not only about the fight itself (the player's expected tools vs the enemy and his challenges) but also for the preparation process (the character gear, build, optional tools that can be used on the upcoming encounter or not).
to balance a game to be fun not only about the fight itself (the player's expected tools vs the enemy and his challenges) but also for the preparation process (the character gear, build, optional tools that can be used on the upcoming encounter or not).

I'd rather take a few fights that can be cheesed or a mandatory gearcheck or 2 over this bland "no fun allowed outside of raid instances" design that seems to be the standard these days.

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>>383900406
Actually, fucking THIS.
Why can't I have huge tits in mmos? Aren't they fantasy?
It's fucking frustrating.

>>383889079
>how to fix MMOs
>thread is basically random MMO with no actual discussion on how to fix them aside from "stop catering to casuals"

every single time. no one cares to actually discuss legitimate things, its just shitposting. why, /v/?

>>383907475
Tell me about it, you can't autopilot anywhere these days, even empty freighters are being ganked by 20+ gangs of Catalysts just for the killmails. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone solo-mining in a Hulk, it's just too dangerous.

And danger makes the game so much more thrilling.

>>383906850
What the fuck are you on about? L2 had a ton players and was very popular from C1 to C5. It was so popular one of the private servers started to have more players than a retail server and for the first time FBI went after the owners.

>>383908042
*random MMO discussion

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>I want an mmo that's actually challenging where you can just faceroll bosses
>did you play wildstar
>lol fuck no, that shit looks like a cartoon

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>>383900406
>>383907983
I know how you feel. I guess some things are just too good for this world.

>>383907042
>Unless you're saying that every game that doesn't conform to your generic standard of "good" gameplay is unpopular (in which case you'd be wrong).
I'm not saying that, and you literally didn't read the rest of that message. Go back and read it again.

>In a MMORPG, however, you'd have no hard reset and eventually stats would scale to the point where the outcome of a fight would be decided by how much +dmg and +def you had on your character rather than your rolling ability or mastery of THE CLAW.
That's mostly because of level scaling in an MMORPG which I think is a problem in and of itself. A lot of MMO lovers I know always say that the best content is at the end of the game when you're max level and doing raids. At which point, I have to ask "What's even the point of levels 1-69 then?" Like I said, MMOs are a marriage of bad gameplay design that usually gets a pass because it's what people are used to, and nobody knows any better. Or it simply gets a pass because they have good friends that they like to chill out with on that server that makes the game fun for them.

>>383889340
Just wait for 3.0 said the nervous whale for the 15th time today.

I hope it succeeds because i want ftroop(frontier dev) to lose, but thats just salty as fuck.

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>>383908121
>yfw System Daemons

>>383908121
I played Wildstar and enjoyed some aspects of it but for me the game doesn't have the "IT" factor, and I eventually quit a bit before getting to the level cap.

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>>383907983
black desert online and eve online have boob sliders

im not sure how "cowtit" you can get with them, but its a start

>>383889079
Make them challenging, wildstar, Tera, nu-wow, etc all had shitty faceroll combat

Not fucking interested in a level grind that has zero gameplay to it because it's so easy

MMOs have to be so big that they're actually worth dumping our lives into.
Making a generic unfun click simulator isn't fun at all. I won't waste 1000000 hours and then get everything deleted when the server die because it was just a Game lol

>>383908307
>Anyone can get within 90% of their true power with a little competence/grind.
>Only the best can get that extra 10%

I enjoy current wow.

>>383908289
So many raid groups fell apart on sys daemons
>>383908307
>wildstar
>faceroll combat
You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

>>383908382
You sound autistic

>>383906063
>>stop catering to casuals, and balancing around them
Define this
>>real consequences upon death, lost items, lost EXP, etc
For what purpose? I really want to know because I most likely don't play the mmo's that utlize this well.
>>full pvp, no pve safety shit
Play a fighting game then
>>huge world bosses that require 100s of people to take down
>>huge raids, 40-man minimum
Problem with this is you HAVE to have a population big enough to even do those raids. You can't have this when 90% on the MMO genre barly gets 300 people in daily logins and adding timezones into the mix just makes things worse. So you basically just have all these useless raids and bosses no one does because they can't get or find that many people to actually do them. This brings out the single player content from devs because people have no other reason to play if they're always forced to do basic stuff with other people.

>>383907221
>no dungeon finder
Seems like games try this, but people go beg beg and beg on the forums until devs add it to the game


Unrelated but surprised BDO still doesn't have any ways to teleport around the world as far as I know

>>383891001
I will never stop being mad at ncsoft.

Still think about cor and all the fun i had playing city o not quite hero.

>>383908042
>>383908109
People play what they want to play, there's no proper way to "fix" them. The biggest problem right now is that MMOs pander to antisocial people who don't fucking enjoy MMOs in the first place, and the MMO that I enjoyed was ol' yeller'd to try and push more people towards said antisocial MMOs.

>>383893838
No fuck you anon, I remember the grind sessions to get off newbie isle and then joining a guild to grind some mobs 40 miles from our fortress while trying to keep a low profile with 8-10 people because gank squads were flying around to decend on us. It's why we always kept to the forested area to prevent people from seeing us overhead.

>>383908497
>Define this
not that anon but;
levels 1-x are meaningless and only Y has any value.
instant gratification... instant travel to x location. kill x boss once to get gear. there are no consequences for your actions aside from maybe having to redo a fight. etc etc

Kill that piece of shit FFXIV, literally the worst MMO thats ever existed. Fucking shilled dog vomit.
MMOs should be about world pvp, raiding with 39 other people and gear being something you'd be lucky to see once every 4 fucking months and you WORKED for it.
Not carebear Jap weeb casual garbage.

>>383908497
>Define this
Removing challenging aspects of the game to make it easier for casual players, and making certain characters stronger or weaker depending on how many casual players complain about them.
>For what purpose? I really want to know because I most likely don't play the mmo's that utlize this well.
Without consequences upon death, there is less meaning in your character being high-level or geared-up, as you faced no real challenge to achieve it.
>Play a fighting game then
No.
>This brings out the single player content from devs because people have no other reason to play if they're always forced to do basic stuff with other people.
Play a single-player game then.

>>383908796
You sound autistic, m8.

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What ever happened to BnS?
I remember it blew up twice for a bit, but now i hear people talking about Tera more often which is a bit older.

Also is Tera still an optimized piece of shit?
How well does BDO run?

>>383907983
lack of polygons on models
it's a shame but it makes sense

>>383889079
bring back guild wars 1

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mmos are fine as is

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>>383909025
>lack of polygons on models
Isn't there anyway to increase it on female characters?

Also, I played BnS on release, it was pretty great until I reached the endgame, which was a grindfest.
Then there was the massive update with the new class, which was an even bigger grindfeft.

Gave up on it immediately after that.

>>383907885
>bland "no fun allowed outside of raid instances" design that seems to be the standard these days
I think this is more related to the target audience. Most MMOs are like theme parks (even the ones that aren't considered "themepark-type MMOs"): You want to offer different kinds rides/attractions for different kinds of costumer. Not everyone likes haunted houses, so you can't make a theme park full of these (or you can, on a smaller scale, for a smaller audience, if you are ok with that).
Same works for MMOs trying to reach a "wider audience". You need to offer easy solo content, easy party content, challenging solo/party content, etc. (not just combat content, but that is more or less the basic idea), or else you won't be able to compete with similar titles. Unfortunately that is just usually how devs creates big MMOs these days (and games in general).

>>383906283
L2 was a shitfest of a game, my dude. Doesn't mean it wasn't fun but holy fuck it was pretty poorly designed.

>>383909195
>jump animation has to have some stupid spin and end in a roll

why

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>how do we fix mmos?
More loli races

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>>383909303

>>383908796
Honestly, I don't really mind XIV's fights or anything, but the abundance of gear floating around pisses me off. I can understand obsoleting gear every expansion since that allows them to create specifc tiers of fights to cater to each group of players (Easy tier raids early in the expansion so most players can get a feel for raiding, mid tier raids that start to weed out bad players, and eventually hard raids that really make people work for it and are only completed by a fraction of the population).

I don't think that'll ever happen though because the dissemination of information is too easy to ruin the challenge of learning and developing strategies for many MMO fights. And fights themselves won't have a lot of variation because designers don't want to deal with the shitfest of world first guilds complaining because random chance gave one group an easier fight than they got.