Why did Kojima ruin Big Boss by turning him into some Che Guevara

>>383836726
>ruin

>>383837064

Elaborate your point.

>>383836726
Big boss is also a sociopath. I don't see the problem here.

>>383836726
big boss was never a good person

>but that's the point, BB is evil after all

NO.

Naked Snake was the biggest boy scout in MGS3 and at the time of Peace Walker he is, at best, a morally grey character. Just looks at his actions through the game, he is still mostly that boy scout, just with a hate for goverments in general that don't respect soldiers or something like that, I don't know, Kojima is a hack.

Nowhere near as evil as Che was.

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>>383836726
>>383837064

op need to stop reposting this everyday

>>383838030

This is my second time anon, please, be gentle.

>>383836726
>entire point of Big Boss's character is he's a a figure made up of rumors, lies and misinterpretations who eventually becomes a villain

i don't see the problem here

>>383837717
>Nowhere near as evil as Che was.

He becomes a terrorist warlord leading a band of insane combat fetishists, and at the end of the story is harboring a fucking stolen nuke as an intimidation tactic so that nobody will get in the way of his private army.

How is that not extremely fucking evil?

>>383836726
Big Boss was never a good boy and the comparisons to Che Guevara can be made in the first two games and they'd be just as valid. They changed absolutely nothing.

>>383838253

Not in Peace Walker.
Actually, he fucking saved the world again from the CIA and KBG lunatics, while doing good deeds in the way like rescuing a little boy, a french student, following what he believes is his mentors ghost etc...

>>383838237

BB eventually becomes a villain, with a laughably bad progression in between games, mind you, but Che was a monster from the start.

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>>383838237

Che, as an early teenager, used to rape his family servents.

In what chapter did Biss Boss rape Paz again?

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>>383836726
Being a Che clone didn't ruin BB. V did.

No homo, but the man was manly, handsome and charismatic as fuck, on top of being both an intellectual and a soldier.

You don't even have to agree with his political views to see that much.

>>383836726
I completely agree, OP. If Kojima really wanted Big Boss to come off as a patriot with the best intentions that turns into hypocritical villain with a cult of personality that ends as a dark-leaning morally gray character, he should've had Big Boss be inspired by Fidel Castro.

>>383837339
el che is literally the best revolutionary ever

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>>383836726
Because Big Boss is literally a fucking Communist.

Only Solid Snake ever had any balls as a far right Libertarian and is the truest Operator in the business.

>Reposting this again
Woooooow, how could young and impressionable South American rebels ever make a comparison to Che?

>>383836726
Kojima is a hack. What did you expect?

also

>japanese having any knowledge about foreign history

Please.

>>383839784
>glorifying a rapist and murderer
You have strange role models. Seek help.

>>383836726
not just the men, but the women and children too

>>383839531
Ground Zeroes tapes.

>>383839956
glorifying a revolucionary ma man
who is your role model? some fat american wage cuck?

>>383836726
>>383838253

>It's a "Everyone ignores the fact that big boss saved the world from nuclear death" episode

>>383840079
>revolutionary
you mean kike-cucked seditionist and narcissist

>>383840104
>And then goes onto making multiple Metal Gears, raising child soldiers, having his own nukes, and holding OILX hostage during an energy crisis that could've torn the world apart if Solid Snake didn't intervene.

>>383839734

Aside from looks and the fact they were ''legendary soldiers'', they don't have that much in common in ideology.

BB actually has a reason to be elevated to legendary status, he saved the world from nuclear holocaust not one, but two times by the end of PW.

>>383839738

There is not that much of ''moraly grey'' in Fidel.

>>383839784

Are you 14? This website requires you to be at least 18 to post.

>>383840079
Your third-worlder is showing.

If you aren't an Argentinian, who have a knack for worshipping shit figures (a.k.a. Maradona, a fucking drug addict whose only talent was playing a sport, and fucking cheating at that), then you must be a shitty teenager in the "muh anarchy" phase.


Or you know, are just a plain fucking ignoramus like 80% of your shit-infested continent.

>>383840104
He saved the world from nuclear death but then stole the nuke for himself and was 100% set on keeping it.

>>383839987

That was Chico.

>>383840287
>they don't have that much in common in ideology.

And when was it ever implied in the series that they did?

>>383840286

Yeah, nice transition from nicest person you will ever meet to fucking psycopath.

Kojima is a hack.

>>383836726
Why do you keep making this thread?

>can't differentiate between mimicking a person and evoking the idea of a person

>>383840612

Just to suffer?

>>383840286
yeah I remember having this happen in peace walker

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>>383840286
Solid Snake is the only well written Snake, and is the only Snake not written by hackjima and the only Snake that hackjima hates.

>>383840876
Two of them did.

>>383840510

Kojima doesn't know what he was doing.
If he didn't intend to make a parallel between BB and Che, he should't have evoked his persona because it ''looks cool''.

Kojima is literally a rebelious 14yo fuck you dad with a mass produced Che t-shirt he bought from ebay with the credit card of his mother.

>>383840920
maybe kojima's writing is genius in japanese and just got messed up in translation

>>383836726
I love this narrative /v/ has that kojima is a hack and "based fukushima" really did everything. Protip: Ghost Babel was nothing special and was basically just a MGS retread.

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>>383836726
That's the point OP. Big Boss is no hero. The game is about a cult of personality mindlessly following a violent revolutionary.

>>383840405
same person

>>383841029
He probably evoked that imagery because Che represents (among other things) independence and rebellion.

>>383836726
Yeah. But you seem to forget that Big Boss isn't a good guy. He gradually became cruel and cold.

>>383841151

Then Kojima did a pretty bad job at that, imo.

>>383841030
Nah bro, Hiroshima did all the codec shit in MGS1 and MGS2. he literally wrote the character of Snake. Hackjima just does "scenarios" and "twists". The reality is that Shinkawa's art direction decides more about the plot than anything else. Shinkawa is the only thing keeping MGS together for 10 years now, he's the real director.

>>383840286
>if Solid Snake didn't intervene
>implying he has any free will and isn't a tool of the Patriots

>>383841213
That is shallow as hell, thou.

>>383841214
>gradually

Nice joke.

>>383840791
This
El Che is widely known as a hero and a symbol of hope against a corrupt and unfair government, and social injustice
It might be a romanticized version of who the whole man was but that story fits BB as most people known him as the legendary hero not knowing the story behind it

>>383836726
>The same thread from last week.

>>383841084
>Ghost Babel was nothing special
It was a note perfect top down Metal Gear title. It wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel or be cinematic. It's perfect for what it is. It is also noticeably grounded in reality, rather than absurd nonsense like Hackjima's post MGS3 tripe.

>>383841084
>implying Ghost Babel isn't Raiden's VR training

>>383841084
Ghost babel was a much better MG2

>>383841215
One of the major themes of the entire series is that hero worship is stupid and counterproductive. Kojima might not be a great writer, but you have to be retarded or a child to not understand what he's trying to convey. People try to paint Kojima as some genius, but this stuff isn't exactly complicated.

>>383841436
>El Che is widely known as a hero and a symbol of hope against a corrupt and unfair government, and social injustice

Then why was him a corrupt villain working for an unfair goverment to distribute social injustice?

>It might be a romanticized version of who the whole man was but that story fits BB as most people known him as the legendary hero not knowing the story behind it

Its the other way around. People don't know BB saved the world from nuclear anihilation two times. If anything, he deserves MORE CREDIT, his legend is not big enough...

Dumb thread. Missed the point entirely. He doesn't have to be a clone of Che. The point was that these rebels saw him as a revolutionary like Che. Do you think the rebels under Che cared about what he did in his private time? No, they hailed him as a hero. Having Big Boss as their Che boosted morale. It's very obvious to anyone who can use logic that south american rebels would immediately think of Che in this regard.

Just fuck off, OP. Stop making this thread and posting this on other MG threads.

>>383841352
>What is Philanthropy
>What is Metal gear Solid 2 cell phone game
>What is original MGS4 ending of Otacon and Snake's execution

>>383841084
>Fukushima
I wonder what the man is up to now. It's a damn shame and a waste if he's still working some nothing desk job at Sony

>>383841585
This. Although the conveyor belt part was more annoying than anything in MG2.

>>383841725
>What is Philanthropy
A filthy terrorist group

>What is Metal gear Solid 2 cell phone game
>What is original MGS4 ending of Otacon and Snake's execution
noncanon

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>>383840079
>>383839784
>>383837064
Yawn.

relax amerilards the cold war is over

>>383841585
Cool, that doesn't make fukishima some creative genius.

>>383841464
It's fine but it's just a retread, story wise it's basically mgs1 mechanics wise it's basically mg2. This is not the kind of game that makes you call a man a genius, it's just competent.

>>383841790
Dunno, I hope not. I don't have anything against the guy, I just think it's stupid that /v/ creates these fan fictions then acts as though they're the gospel.

>>383842061

What about Cold War II?
Wake up, anon...

>>383841920
cell game is canon bro

>>383842058
>t-that was not real communism!

>>383842174
>Dunno, I hope not. I don't have anything against the guy, I just think it's stupid that /v/ creates these fan fictions then acts as though they're the gospel.

I don't know, man. You saw what a pure Kojima's MGS game look like.

He is the George Lucas of videogames, he needs competent people to guide him...

>have the MGS legacy collection on ps3
>too lazy to hook up the ps3
>may never get around to playing mgs3

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>>383842174
Well how else do you explain the huge gap in quality after he got dropped?

>>383842256
Well why not, it's not like canon could get any less fucked after V, even if the series was still alive.

>>383842740

I wish Fukushima directed MGSV.
Kojima could still direct the trailers, he's good at that.

Shame MGSV is the equivalent of the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Fanboys try to defend it on release, but as time passes, everyone can see it was a massive mistake...

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>>383841670
>Then why was him a corrupt villain working for an unfair goverment to distribute social injustice?

What are you even talking about? Are you trying to argue that he is not to this day remembered as a legend by once again resorting to "b-but he was an evil man himself!" He lead the revolution against the corrupt dictatorship of Batista, making himself a hero of his country, he will be remembered for this; just like you will be remembered by the biggest action you did in life and not for the countless times you jacked off to trap porn.

>Its the other way around. People don't know BB saved the world from nuclear anihilation two times. If anything, he deserves MORE CREDIT, his legend is not big enough...

Are you counting ops or whatever was called? Regardless of the story that followed him to the events of PW, in that game he's playing the role that el Che was for many revolutionary armies

>>383844034

I'm just saying that many of the reasons people idolize him come from lies, fed by propaganda, and if people were educated on the subject, he really wouldn't be idolized by many people. It doesn't help that his image as a youg revolutionary just looks cool and most people don't care to see past that.

I wans't counting Portable Ops, if you do, its 3 times he saved the world from nukes. Compared to that, Che's biggest accomplishment was the thriving industry of red t-shirts with his face on it.

>>383844356
I'm just saying that many of the reasons people idolize him come from lies, fed by propaganda, and if people were educated on the subject, he really wouldn't be idolized by many people.
So? Weren't the Founding Fathers a bunch of murdering rapists too? People still worship them, don't they. Who gives a shit about ye olde propaganda?

>>383844680

So ignorance should never be encouraged.
Everyone should strive to see past propaganda, of any kind, be it new or old.

Or you could just settle for being an ignorant, you do you, anon.

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>>383844680
>murderers
Kek
>rapists
So Thomas Jefferson BLEACHED a handful of black women in his basement. Doesn't mean all of them were "rapists."

>>383844356
But that's the point; he was made a symbol, a tool of sorts to rally the troops and give hope when fighting the government. You're obviously going to leave some gritty details out of the story, like a romanticized version of the person; just like they did with most heroes you hear from nowdays.

In the game, Vic boss was the symbol for the real Che-insert, Amanda. She (or her dad) was the real leader of the revolution and the one who ultimately liberated Nicaragua but it was the fact that they had the legendary hero big boss that gave them hope to fight onwards

>>383845316

I know, those are the parallels Kojima obviously make to Che in PW. I can understand the image of Che would be revigorating to the sandinistas in the story.

But my problem is not with that, my problem is more on a meta level. That Kojima would go out of his way to try and make this parallel of BB and Che, when they have very little in common, it seems out of place and superficial, just for the sake of the image, with no real depth, for the reasons posted many times in this thread...

>>383841408
Of course it's shallow as hell, the parallels to Che were drawn by the revolutionaries whom Big Boss kept at arm's length for the most part. Chico and Amanda hung out on the base since they knew the lay of the land, but MSF operated on its own, separate from the Sandinistas.

The story never reinforced the Boss = Che thing. It was a dumb thing said by Chico, a stupid kid, and Boss told him no, he's not a revolutionary.

>>383842740
>>383843572
you guys giving fukushima so much credit when you don't know what he made in the "good" games besides the codec calls. There's probably more correlation with kojima becoming a worse writer over time ( like anything in life) than fukushima being this unsung hero of the series.

Writing is hard, taking into account kojima was already an insanely average (if even) writer to begin with that borrowed HEAVILY from 80s and 90s action movies to get his story across. The more unique his ideas got the less he could just rip off and prop up his entire story with ideas from a movie, and it showed in how bad the last 3 games were. Ideas and themes can only propel a game so far, you need an actual narrative that isn't garbage. 4 and peace walker both had narratives and they were fucking awful, one hinged on fan fiction and non stop references to previous games with ideas that had almost no creativity to them. peace walker was basically "hey, big boss is che now, ill remind you of that every 2-3 cutscenes" and v was interesting vision of building up an army with rhodesian conflicts as a backdrop gone horribly horribly wrong with moby dick references that go absolutely nowhere with no depth, and half thrown in 1984 ingsoc references that are done so laughably bad you'd ask yourself why they were even in there to begin with. The guy just isn't a good writer and his celebrity has gotten so out of hand that he's in the position where he makes so much money nobody is gonna tell him otherwise.

Did anyone else get the feeling that BB just didn't give a shit about his army and was just letting Kaz do it in PW? Venom on the other hand is a different story.

>>383845984

He denies it like Solid denies being a hero with the ''I'm no hero'' speech, but the game FRAMES him like that.

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>>383842473
>t-that was not real communism!

no, that's the old defense. what they do now is

>capitalism has killed more people

posters at places like r/latestagecapitalism are celebrating these killings. pic related

>>383845682
Yeah, in that regard I think Kojima really stretched the story to try and fit him into the role of a revolutionary hero.

I once heard a suggestion, from someone else in this board, and that was to treat each story as a standalone game made with a central theme in mind.
In this case, I guess Kojima looked for inspiration about Peace by deterrence with the whole cold war/cuban crisis and found El Che's story to be interesting so he made BB, the main character to fill this role even if he was never been in a role like this before; just to fill the roles of all the character in his story

>>383846306

That is so disgusting it makes me beyond mad.

>>383846119

Yeah, it may have been something like that.
What a mess MGSV was, I don't think I will ever get over it...

>>383846606

If you don't take it too seriously you can make it work with head-cannon, like you said.