>2 weeks >No one fully cleared mythic raid yet So, I g

or maybe it's because it's a hard raid?

>>383771485
lol no

>>383771657
Then why has it taken this long for the best guilds in the world to beat it?

>>383771762
Because they can't be bothered anymore, game sucks

>>383770438
Compared to what, when it used to take literally several months to down the world firsts of some bosses, let alone full clears?
It took 154 days to reach the world first molten core clear.

It took 0 to clear wrath naxx, yet it took 85 to clear ulduar.

TTC scales with difficulty tuning.

My server is barren and it's usually bumping in the middle of an expansion.

>>383771762
I think one of the top 3 guilds literally just quit the race a few days ago. Limit-Illidan.

>>383772276
A lot of people are mass exodusing to more populated servers, it's actually pretty crazy.
Finding a competent guild in mid or low pop servers is just too much hassle.
At this point the realm system is pointless.

Everyone should play FFXIV =3

>>383770438
>Blizzard completely guts raiding to make sure that three guild have A SICK EPIC WORLD FIRST RACE WHOA WE'RE SUCH ESPORTS!
How is that good? 10 man normal raiding was by far the most popular format and they completely destroyed it. Now you just barge your way through heroic before slamming your head against mythic, while cycling through your entire roster over the course of a single raid tier. Oh and because of titanforging the entire reward system is completely fucked.

>>383772375
This happens every tier. There's usually a bunch of drops, especially ones with close-but-no-cigar luck, or guilds built on the skeletons of older hardcore ones.

>>383772375
Limit got banned for buying accounts

Mythic KJ is a fucking beast. Not surprised.

>>383771485
Did they not learn a lesson from the last raid tier? Decade+ long raid guilds were close to quitting.
This may finally do it. It's like they WANT to quash the remnants of the tryhard presence in WoW.

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>>383771485
You can't design a decent raid when you have to include legendaries and titanforging.
You just can't tune it right.
Kil'jaeden was impossible to kill I hear, because some mechanics stacks in such manner they killed the raid 100% of the time - and I'm not talking about some shitters, but Method.
Blizzard just can't tune the raid correctly, because they're driven themselves into a corner.

But hey, what do I know? my guild just killed KJ hc this sunday.

>>383770438
If anything the FINAL boss not dying within the first week is a sign that they finally made a decent encounter.

>>383772630
It took you that long? You guys must be pretty shit.

I haven't seen a wow is dying thread in a while. It's nice to see something that isn't *console my mom didn't buy me* is dying thread or overwatch is dying. Good job op

>>383772630
While you're not wrong, people pugged hkj week 1.

>>383772739
The difference between herioc and mythic has gotten to the point that mythic players don't even bother with mythic anymore and just do heroic.

>>383771485
it's a bad raid
better than nighthold, but still bad

I heard KJ gets killed by the adventurers in 7.3, that's impressive considering KJ, Archimonde and Azshara are the most powerful non-titans/gods in the warcraft universe.

Anyway who's going to be the big bad boss of Legion? I heard you can go to argus in 7.4, do we know what the next raid is going to be?

Haven't played wow in years but sometimes I check mmo-champion

>>383772729
Yes we are, your point being....?

>>383772468
Agreed.

>>383772814
What are you even on about, do you even play? Heroic only shitters are leagues behind people who actually end up clearing mythic.
Plenty of people bother with mythic.

>>383772838
The big bad of legion is Argus' world souls which a group of 20 randos are gonna kill in 7.3

>>383772838
KJ died now in 7.2.5, we're going to Argus in 7.3.

My bet is on Azshara being the main baddy in this expansion.

>>383772653
Just because the fight's not dead in the first week doesn't mean they made a good encounter, it could also mean it's grossly overtuned

>>383772961
I play, and I hear it all the time that mythic players are kinda feeling disenfranchised with mythic that heroic is nothing compared for a heroic raider but can and does RNG amazing loot, but that's a titanforging problem rather than a difficulty problem.

>>383773030
Depends on how you look at it. Honestly, this still definitely beats having 50+ day waits for world first clears.

>>383773094
>>383772961
Christ just fucking ignore me that spelling and missplacing of words is disgusting.

>>383772630
why does anduin look like chink?

>>383773094
It honestly would have been fine with just warforging, but titanforging got out of hand. It is such a shit that it definitely makes heroic worth running in place of grinding out split runs.

>full raid clear in 1 week
WOW RAIDS SO EASY WOWS DYING
>full raid not clear in 2 weeks
WOW RAIDS SO HARD WOWS DYING

i guess raids need to be cleared in exactly 1.5 weeks or wow is dying

Quick help me decide on a Rogue.
Panda, Dwarf or Human?

>>383771485

>modern wow
>anything being hard enough that a retarded 12 year old american child couldnt farm week in week out

L M A O

>>383773313
WoW is always dying

>>383773231
To be honest I don't even remember how he looks anymore. Blizzard doesn't give a shit about him anymore.

>>383773552
Troll

>>383773552
Pandass is the best

>>383773576

they deserve it. their subscription is archaic and greedy

WoW has been dying for 13 years now, apparently

>>383772971
>20 randos
Who killed 2 old gods, Arthas, Deathwing, KJ, Most of the black dragonflight, malygos, the thunder king, the sha, gul'dan channelling sargaras, Tichondrius and defeated or killed the titanic watchers.

How could these weakling boar herders possibly do it? Oh wait it's not 2004 anymore the story has progressed

>>383770438
The hardcore guilds are realising that the effort to reward ratio for world first raiding just isn't worth it compared to modern streaming and esports. Mythic raiding is an outmoded form of content from a revenue perspective.

We've also reached the point where having to balance the final boss around method so they don't down it in 10 minutes (and the resulting backlash from the 'community') compared to what the average raid guild can actually achieve has reached it's zenith.

>>383773732
were all dying, son

Is 7.3 the wellfare epic patch? I might come back for that.

>>383773831
Most of these were killed by characters with the players assisting

>>383774041
every patch is welfare epic patch now

>>383772630
x-forging upgrades are so stupid, a lot of the choices they have made for raiding since Wrath show they clearly don't have a grasp on what progression used to be (and mean). I also hate the superfluous difficulty modes, there should only be heroic and mythic and MAYBE a queue'd flex mode like back in late MoP. LFR should never have existed.

who /felmyst/ here

>>383774114
>LFR should never have existed.
why? its a tourist mode so everyone can see the content. blizz didnt like that only 1% of players stepped foot in raids they spent hundreds of hours and millions of dollars designing, so they added a mode that lets everybody see it. nobody considers it real raiding, not even blizz.

>>383774114

Yeah it's a lot more tedious to raid mythic when the rewards are limited at this point. Slightly cooler looking tier sets that people will be able to solo farm next expansion and a title.

As others have said it's balanced around the Method raiding machine and most of the other top tier guilds are tapering off.

>>383772416
I wonder if they will ever consider consolidating realms. It seems like the D-team doesn't like doing anything that might be seen as admission to the fact that the game is fucking dead.

>>383774114
>LFR should never have existed.

That's what I keep saying, but people still insist everyone has to be able to see all the content.
Like if fucking youtube didn't exist.

LFR was and is the cancer that's killing off WoW.

>>383774114
>there should only be heroic and mythic and MAYBE a queue'd flex mode like back in late MoP
ok so you want
>mythic
>heroic
>and maybe normal
instead of
>mythic
>heroic
>normal
?????????????????????????

I went to BDO. Yeah, it's kinda jewish with the cashshop, but it's nice to just be able to have grinding be my endgame and not RNG gambling raids.

Guess I'm over it after all these years.

>>383774328
No LFR

>>383770438
It doesn't mean as much anymore. Wow was so great at its peak fuck I miss those days.

>>383774325
Honest to God, how does people who weren't raiders anyway and weren't going to raid ever be able to do a babby mode affect anyone else?

>>383774370
I tried BDO, but it's not 'kinda' p2w, but it's completely jew-mode-engaged p2w. I don't mind the grind, but lack of PvE endgame dooms the game for me completely.

>>383774386
ok but why

>>383774282
Ghostcrawler has admitted (now he's a riot) LFR was a mistake because it disinsetinvises people who haven't made the leap to 'serious' raiding to do so.
While certainly not the only or primary reason for the decline of the raiding population it has still significantly contributed to it.

The fact is this 'more then 1% of players should see the content' actually hurt the content blizzard was making more then it helped it.

>>383773552
Human.
Dwarves look okay in leather but most rogue helms cut off their beards and look like shit.

>>383774530
Well, yeah. It won't buttfuck you of all your money, but if you play it you'd better get used to the idea that you WILL have to buy a pet at minimum.

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>>383774440
It actually does when you think about it.
Many of my friends who were decent raiders in TBC, come back to WoW, level up to the current cap, run an LFR or two and 'think' they've done all the content (and their not entirely wrong).
Not to mention that some people who have the potential to be good raiders with a little push are content with grinding LFR and quiting the game, because they think it's all there is to raiding.

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>>383774328
Not that guy but personally i'd like to get rid of lfr and create a higher dificult dungeon with higher ilvl to fill the gap

>>383774540
They never were, my friend. Maybe you'd get a handful of people who 'never became raiders because of LFR', but the fact is
-people don't have time
-it gets boring
-they suck
-no interest in the content
-don't want to commit
and I don't believe for one second that LFR took any sizable chunk of prospective raiders away from the game.

>>383774540
>While certainly not the only or primary reason for the decline of the raiding population it has still significantly contributed to it.
>The fact is this 'more then 1% of players should see the content' actually hurt the content
do you not see the extreme irony of those two statements? if 1% of the playerbase was raiding, how the fuck could lfr have caused a decline? are .01% of people raiding now?
if you seriously think current raid content is worse mechanically than how it was "back in the day" you are a fucking retard. theres more mechanics in trash pulls than there were in entire raid tiers

>>383774737
Raiding is loot + challenge.

If you take out challenge then yes, it becomes fucking boring extra fast.
It's not rocket science.
And let's be honest, even normals/hc get pretty easy as you progress with gear. So what's the point of LFR?

>>383774632
but you dont need to do lfr to gear up
mythic+ dungeons already exist too

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>>383773558

why do you try to appear retarded on the internet anon?

>>383774904
the point of lfr is to allow the most braindead retard casuals into the raid instance to see the encounters. its a tourist mode. it existing does not effect you at all

>>383774813
>if 1% of the playerbase was raiding,
No, you dumb fuck. He meant 1% was doing the absolute end game on the hardest difficulty.
There's a broad spectrum of challenging raids before that. In TBC only a handful of guilds raided Sunwell and BT before that, but most guilds could and did raid.

Oh, now that I think about it - LFR also is killing off guilds, because with LFG tool you can play alone and still be able to raid.

>>383774440
No matter how much you don't want to believe it, it is true that LFR has stopped some (not all) people who would have made the leap to 'proper' raiding from doing so.

In the past blizzard has cocked it up by making so raiders had to do LFR as well because of tier/other rewards.

Finally on a personal note (and you can call me an elitist) if you're so bad at the game of have so little time to invest you can't clear a raid on normal you don't deserve to see the content, blizzard doesn't let someone who can only play 2 hours a week start at 2200 it makes no sense they should be allowing that person to clear what should be the best pve content.
The obvious counter to this is LFR means more people are technically raiding but like I said in my first point LFR doesn't help the raiding population it's not even neutral it actively harms it.

>>383775020
But it fucking does affect me,
see
>>383774626

>>383774540
You can't detour non-adopters. They're non-adopters, and if he realized that sooner, he wouldn't be in a situation where he needs to maintain a shitty ASSFAGGOTS game for a paycheck.

I was a hardcore raider. I decided I was fucking done after LK.
If I was going to see a raid, it was going to be through:
A) LFR
B) Youtube
Data cannot prove out the anecdotes. Even if he reviewed hard data showing raiding dropoffs when LFR showed up, correlation does not mean causation. The LFR feature was introduced as the tail end of an expansion and casual players were dropping off from the fatigue of MONTHS of shitty tuning beforehand.

Ghostcrawler is not the end-all-be-all, even if he worked on the system. If nothing else, he failed to realize the mechanics of it and deserves to be Tencent's bitch right now. I wouldn't want him anywhere near an antique pocket watch like WoW if I were a design manager.

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I think games based around 'raiding' as endgame are not for me any more. I did it, and had fun, but it's not anymore.

I think a lot of people feel like this now. A lot of us that started WoW 10 years ago are in different places in life now.

I mostly just play ARPGs now for my social/online fill. I'm pretty hyped for Fall of Oriath and a lot of my old guildies will be playing it too.

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>>383775060
>Finally on a personal note (and you can call me an elitist) if you're so bad at the game of have so little time to invest you can't clear a raid on normal you don't deserve to see the content,

You, I like you. I think exactly the same. I hate the new approach to gaming that you HAVE to finish it or see everything. I thought that one of the primary characteristics of a 'game' is that you must be able to fail at it.

8 days and 11 hours until return of glorious buring crusade days

>>383774282
thats why BC added heirloom gear which is retrospect is understandable

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>>383771485
the last genuinely hard boss was in pandashit, the last fun but hard boss was maybe kael or chromag if you nostalgia hard enough
Cata to Legion is babymode "hard = more health and more damage" instead of genuinely complex bosses

And no one pull out hanz and franz, speeding up conveyer belt does not a hard boss make

>>383774904
>So what's the point of LFR?

The point is that not everybody is NEET.
Some people can play only 1 hour a day.

>>383774938
Lfr shoves free gear to your face, and usually includes tier sets that might be mandatory for certain specs. The experience is also underwhelming, considering most of the time you are raiding with literal retards that have problems killing the boss even if it has no mechanics and deals no damage.

>>383775060
Disagree with your first point largely because of what >>383775107 says.
Agree with your second point. I used to raid. I don't anymore. I don't think we have to pass out ribbons for everyone just for showing up, but there being ribbons doesn't affect the guys winning the trophies.

>WoW's core audience ages out of the "I have unlimited time to play games" range and in to the "I have a career and am starting to consider having kids" range
>people don't understand why progress slows
The next generation of gamers are addicted to F2P MOBAs and the like, not WoW. Of course WoW's content is going to take longer to clear when there's a smaller pool of players for the elite guilds to draw from.

>>383774440
there is NO reason to raid past LFR esp for a returning player. LFR is taking a shortcut. like watching porn instead of being with a real woman. you watch poor and all of a sudden you don't care if you get laid for a while. LFR is just another severe to the WoW community.

>>383771485
Guilds that usually finished 20th-30th are now in top 10 in progress

>>383775284
>Some people can play only 1 hour a day.
Then they SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING AN MMORPG DESIGNED TO BE A TIME CONSUMING GAME HOLY FUCK.

Also I only log in 3x a week for 3h raids and still do mythic progression atm.

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>>383775362
Those kind of players weren't going to put in the commitment to be in any kind of serious raid group anyways, elite or not.

>>383774813
You either didn't read what I wrote or you don't understand the context the '1%' comment by the dev was made in. In either case you're attacking my point from a position of ignorance.

My point was before LFR whatever percent of the population raided cared and appreciated the content blizzard made and put out.
Now people are baying for more content the second they complete the last wing on LFR (which as we all know you can afk through naked and in all probability still complete without being kicked).

>>383775030
if you think guilds are dead, go to https://www.wowprogress.com and keep clicking next until you reach the very last guild thats ranked 1/10 normal. even the trade chat recruitment spamming guilds are doing normal on my server. i dont understand how you think guilds are being killed off. theyre fucking everywhere.

> LFR also is killing off guilds, because with LFG tool
>LFR is killing guilds because of something that isnt LFR
what?
>>383775098
your friend is a dumbass then. you should have told them that lfr was a tourist mode and the real content is in the other difficulties.

>>383775350
this. MOBAs and phone games are to kids today what WoW was to me 10 years ago. It's just how shit works.

>>383775423
Most people need a little push to start and enjoy raiding, you don't know what you're talking about.

dudes...the 1% meme is for vanilla naxx...there were tons of guilds in BC and Wrath that were doing content and progressing and a semi hardcore level. yes to get to the end end game it required a bunch of time and effort. what is wrong with that?

>never raided
>did solo legacy raids for no reason other than being bored
Never even LFR, too put off by the kind of faggotry ITT. I get the impression that anyone who raids is either an asshole, an autist or a mix of the two

>>383775519
>most
no fucking way. You either think a few hours a night with some fuckheads (friends or not) on a chat program to farm the same bosses for items is fun or you don't.

It's not like raiding is some fucking Masonic ritual the masses can't possibly comprehend.

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>>383775436
Back in the day you needed a guild to raid.
Now you don't.
Push a button, the game finds a group for you.
No social interaction required.
No reason to join a guild.
Do you see now or do I need to draw a chart?

>>383775593
you don't even care about raiding and the only reason you did it was because you were bored...so why reward a player like y ou who could give a shit if you see the content or not

>>383775565
>semi hardcore level
What the fuck is Semi hardcore. That's not even half empty or half full, it isn't even at half capacity, this is some straight up "im a casual but call myself gamer" lingo

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the game is boring as shit and personal loot kinda killed it for most average players, I'd rather see shit drop even if its not for me, than get literally nothing in an entire dungeon run and in some cases a raid

but more than that the content just isn't good, its still the same game where you will fight the same bosses for 6 straight months and then they will release another patch / expansion that undoes everything and you start again, because blizzard doesn't understand the concept of horizontal progression

a few expansions down the line and this game is going to have a barrier of entry so large that its just going to collapse the game, no one wants to grind 150 fucking levels dude, look at what that stupid shit did to RO official servers.

Ironically a 15 year old game in FFXI has the ideal endgame set up for an MMO, where pretty much ALL of the content is horizontal progression, you can upgrade all the old content gear to current ilvl, including all the relics, and on top of that they never took shit out of the game "just because" like blizz did. More games could learn from FFXI but no one cares because its not directly competing with anything anymore due to being so old.

>>383775658
>needing the kind of person who thinks LFR is the same as raiding in their raidgroup
is your raid just complete shit or something? If you don't need drooling fuckwits to fill slots, then why are you complaining?

>>383775679
are you brain dead? semi hardcore would be mid level raiders. not fucking Method working on KJ but finishing up BT...what the fuck.

>>383775658
>necrotic and fel are different forces
And here i was thinking the Legion gave Nerzul the power via fel to animate the dead

>>383775675
>could give a shit if you see the content or not
>could give a shit
2/10 please anon this is too easy

>>383775650
You don't know if it's fun until you try it out yourself, but you won't because you lack the incentive, because you have an easy alternative which gives 'the same thing' in your head.

>play vanilla
>111111111111111111111111111
>99% percentile raider

>play BC
>11111111111111111111111111111
>99% percentile raider

>play legion
>111111111111111111111111111
>get kicked out of LFR cause they thought you were afk auto-attacking

>>383775767
again, why are the theoretical guilds in these situations desperate for these theoretical idiot players? They're theoretically not going to clear shit if they're full of idiot shitters.

you can really tell who the wrathbabbies are in this thread

>>383775752
Fel was always about corruption. It was about making demons, not zombies.

>>383775741
You're fucking retarded and I'm really getting sick of responding to you. Fuck off.

>>383775815
>getting kicked out
Dps class? ive straight up admitted to going afk in raids as a pally tank and they just let it be since, well, its fucking ez mode and no one can even accidentally peel agg

>>383775874
i was actually inquiring about the official art chart. I alwasy thought warlocks and necromancers tapped into shadow and fel energies for their powers, but i guess blizzard thought itd be easier to just make a subset

>>383775742

>hardcore = skill level

ok shitbrains, I guess a guild that can't even clear heroic yet raids 30 hours a week wiping all day long is "not hardcore" at all, meanwhile a "weekend" guild that raids 7 hours split on sat/sun that eventually clears mythic within the content's relevancy is HARDCORE AS FUCK.

yes they are hardcore as fuck, they're just shit.

#brainlets

>>383775851
>new player
>idiot who will never git gud

I said fuck off. You're not even making any arguments, just shitting on newbies.

>>383775863
You can always notice them
Usually it's people who claim that cata killed wow
But there also "different raid modes is fine" "it's okay to have both 10 and 25ppl versions of same raid" etc

>>383775425
so if lfr was instantly removed tomorrow, you really think the playerbase would instantly change back into good boys who are satisfied with the content? thats a playerbase problem, it has nothing to do with lfr. if youve got a problem with blizz's design philosophy as a whole, say that from the start. dont just say "remove lfr". theres nothing inherently wrong with lfr.

>>383775658
this reply chain started with lfr. lfg is not lfr. lfg for raids existed in wotlk, before lfr even existed

>>383775658
>he thinks lfr is raiding
>laughinggirls.jpg

>>383775952
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING?!?! have you even been in a raiding guild environment?? I assume not because you're talking about mythics.

>>383775658
This is a pretty picture but I don't like it.

LFR has made me want to join a raiding guild but wanting it doesnt make me have the time anyway.
It made me want to actualy raid so much that i was thinking of transferring or re rolling in a high pop server, so no i think LFR is actually a good thing.

>>383775984
>theres nothing inherently wrong with lfr.
There is if your only sense of accomplishment comes from seeing a cinematic that only 5% of players ever see.

>>383773558
The raiding is literally the only thing that has gotten harder through the years.

Fuck off, retard

>>383775874
>every single post has multiple replies
>he thinks hes in a conversation with a single person

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>>383776338
I refuse to believe there are so many retarded people in one WoW thread.

Personally I think Mythic is too difficult. I understand that it's meant to be super ultra hard and only for the truly dedicated, but the amount of time investment required for raiding Mythic compared to Heroic is absolutely insane.

>>383776375
only retard here is you

>>383772628
Wow yeah its the raid design not the fact they've been raiding for TEN YEARS.

>>383776379
If you're not interested in world first race it's actuall pretty normal. You raid like you normally do hc and with time you'll clear mythic up to your guild's "git gud" level. Then you'll stop progressing, start weekly farm clears, get bored and stop playing.

I want to resub and play in Legion but it seems like with all of the weapon leveling and gear acquisition shit that I will forever be behind the curve. Is this true or can you actually realistically catch up at this point? How long would one have to no-life it to get to peak performance right now?

>>383776456
It's the player base ageing out due to life circumstances and not being replaced with younger people because they have F2P and mobile games that don't cost $15 a month and incorporate the same skinner box reward system.

>>383776509
With the artifact weapons it's only a couple of months to catch up. I'm unsure of the rest of the gear because I unsubbed a while back.

>>383770438
I actually quit for a while this Tuesday, Tomb feels underwhelming after the hype it's been building since 7.2 launched, and I'm not excited to see how long the Argus raid is gonna take so I'm out
Finally

>>383776458
I don't know what kind of guilds you've been in but that's not the experience I've had in Legion. When I was raiding in Mythic NH you were expected to not only farm mythic+ dungeons for the best possible gear all day but also have all 54 traits unlocked which is an absolutely insane requirement.

>>383776509
Apparently in 7.3 everyone will have their artifact knowledge automatically set to 40 so no one gets left too far behind.
Currently, if you really no-life for around 2-3 weeks or so (and get a bit lucky), you should be close to catching up, maybe not at peak performance though.

>>383776509
ignore the other 2 people. artifact knowledge 1-26 is buyable instantly. everything beyond there takes 4 hours per level to research. 40 is the max. at 40 it takes about a week to get concordance, aka the final trait. for dps classes its a 4k main stat (int/agil/str) proc. each further point adds 300 more of your main stat. there really isnt a significant difference, especially when you consider the amount of time it takes to grind levels higher. blizz no longer intends for you to max your artifact out either. you can catch up very quickly
t. someone who switched classes at tos launch and is now 912 ilvl with 3 points in concordance

>>383776509
If you want to raid normal/heroic you'll have no problems whatsoever. It might take you 1-2 weeks to play catch up but there shouldn't be any real problem. Artifact Knowledge and Power is really easy to get now so that's not going to be an issue, only your gear.

>>383773552
Human is the best choice simply because the raical they get helps with all the shitty reputation grinds, and being able to get out of stuns isn't bad either.
But ultimately just play whichever one you think looks best since the differences don't make a huge difference one way or another.

>>383776172

are you a fucking idiot or something?

>you're not a raider if you talk about mythics

yeah, we should talk about lfr and normal mode, ie the content you do you fucking shitter.

Was he the best Rogue(or at least one of the best rogues) back in the day?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpRrSK3ToI

>>383777463
put your head in vice grip if you think I've played this game for the past 3 or 4 expansions...somehow you think there is no middle between a casual player who raids and a hardcore raider.

>>383777463
>>383777683
both of you are retards for getting so worked up and confused about nomenclature for the difference between method and guilds that raid less hours/guilds that arent as progressed

>>383775170
I'm the same as you.
I enjoyed raiding before but now it's just not as enjoyable. I've noticed that I'm burned out from this patch since I don't find any of the content to be fun, and even though Tomb just released it already feels like I've been raiding it for months.

I've been having more fun just playing random multiplayer games with friends than I have been with WoW in a while.

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>>383775201
>taht pic

>>383776456
theyre not quitting gaming you fucking moron

>>383775767
Not really
It's just as likely that someone will try LFR and enjoy it, find out that you can get better rewards from doing the higher difficulties, and start trying to get into a group/guild to run them.

But all of this is nonsense since we're just making assumptions about people with no real data to back it up.

>>383775984
that 1 of many problems u faggot

>>383775593
>I get the impression that anyone who raids is either an asshole, an autist or a mix of the two

If I were to make broad assumptions about raiders based on my guild I would say that they're all huge stoners who are laid back and just want to have fun.

>>383772630
Raid tuning is a fucking mess this expansion. Emerald Nightmare was cleared in like a day, so then after that they decided that almost every Mythic boss since then should be a 8 minute synchronized dance lesson with DPS checks beyond what most classes can actually hit without having BiS legendaries.

Did you know how Method killed Avatar? They brought in 5 Sub rogues that all had damn near BiS gear, because they could stay on the boss the longest and also because the poison damage snapshotted so it wasn't effected by the beam debuff.

Like that's great and all, but what about literally every other guild that doesn't have a roster of every spec in the game in full BiS ready at a moment's notice?

>>383778257
>sub rogues
>poison

Man I love LFR heroes.

>>383775658
You can do the same thing with normal and mythic raids as well.
Open group finder
Go to premade group section
Find group for raid you want to do that doesn't have stupid requirements like ilvl higher than the gear you can get from the raid
Sign up
Get Invited
Run the raid
Leave
All without having any real social interaction besides maybe saying "hi"

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Didn't the story go full Dragonball with randomly killing and then resurrecting important characters, just so you can kill them/they can die all over again?

>>383778474
Not him, but you sound like a butthurt retard that points out in insignificant flaw in an otherwise good post.

>>383778474
Assassin, what the fuck ever I don't play such a faggy class like Rogue, sue me you prick.

The point is developing a raid encounter where your melee has to consist of:
1. Rogue
2. Warriors (execute damage)
3. Literally nothing else

is not a good design. Method's killed Avatar again and they had to use the exact same lineup.

All u faggots just watch a guide and raid

dont act elitist if ur not top 10 please stfu

>>383776931
>artifact knowledge 1-26 is buyable instantly
Can't you only purchase it if you're unlocked that level on a character already?

>>383778596
Because it's 100% wrong. If you stack Rogues it's always, unconditionally because of: Feint and/or Cloak. Mostly Feint, since many other classes have Cloak equivalents now. Having 5 players taking half the damage with 100% uptime in the last phase of a healing hell with barely a 10% dps loss is ridiculously overpowered, and it has been so for the last few expansions.

>>383778730
No, you can buy 26 instantly now, and you get from 26 to 40 in about 4 days.

>>383778730
I might be wrong, but I -think- that 1-20 or something similar is buyable instantly. The following levels all take 3 hours each compared to the 5-6 days it used to take before. AK is really easy to get after they changed it.

>>383778807
Good attempt at deflecting, except that I was pointing out that this post >>383778474 is fucking retarded.

>>383778807
Well Feint/Cloak are also part of it, the whole "stay on the boss" part because every other melee has to run in and out every few seconds because of Unbound/Ruptured. Even without the debuff the DPS check on Avatar is fucking insane.

>>383778668
But don't you know annon? Everybody on /v/ is top 10% of every competitive game ever made ever.

>>383778807
>Having 5 players taking half the damage with 100% uptime in the last phase of a healing hell with barely a 10% dps loss

You're fucking retarded, Feint costs 35 energy and lasts 4 seconds, that's 85% of your passive energy regen to keep it up 100%. You literally cannot keep feint up 100% of the time and still do DPS. I should fucking know, I had to keep 100% uptime on it on Mythic Tichondrius prog for soaking the Carrion Swarms.
The Method are stacking Leech gear with Rogues using Leeching Poison and the Leech buffs from their Blood DK, the result is 20% passive Leech (~300k HPS per Rogue) with another 20% Leech on a 45 second cooldown.

>>383770438
Yeah I see more topics about people leaving then saying "Wow such a good game" or "Whats fun to do in the game" /End the game and build a new MMO blizzard SHIT is old.

It's kind of funny that everyone seems to forget that one of the reasons old raids took much longer to clear, was that they where badly tuned and filled with bugs.

>>383772184
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Ulduar time locked? Like the whole thing wasn't available to full clear? Similar to Argent Tournament

Mythic raiding is garbage anyway.
Never was hard, never will.

>boss reacts the same every pull

top kek

>>383779194
I think Sunwell was the only raid to do that? Really can't remember.

>>383773716
>subscription
Moder WoW has many faults, but a subscription fee is not one of them

>>383779101
I think it's more that most guilds had no idea what to expect when going into a boss fight. You actually had to do some digging to find a boss guide. Now it's easy to find how to do any boss.

>>383778496
>wowbabbies chose to ignore this

>>383779283
Yeah, it is. But keep sucking that Blizzard cock.

>>383779303
That doesn't really apply to the top guilds. They never had a guide to look up.

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>>383778972
>blood dk

You should stop blindly believing what your LFR guild tells you.

>>383776332
(you)

>>383770438
>>383771485
>>383771657
if you're going to criticize the game at least do it properly

the raid hasnt been beaten yet because the last fight is a buggy broken mess

it has nothing to do with the guilds still competing (even though those have decreased) since the top contenders (Method+Serenity and Exorsus) that have won every single race are still competing

additionally, raid clear time means absolutely nothing considering the longest clear times were during the peak days of wow

tl;dr 7/10 bait made me respond

>>383779349
I don't really think it's anything to argue about. Most people know Blizzard can't write for shit.

>>383770438
I keep thinking about coming back but every time I do I want to play a new class. Doing that I play through low level zones and get a short nostalgia buzz but it wuickly turns in to sadness when you remember all the fun you had there with other noobs back in the day and now it's completely empty.

>>383779205
Mythic was great in WoD because the bosses were tuned correctly due to players having predictable power progression.
In Legion, Titanforging, retarded Artifact ilvl scaling, and Legendaries have resulted in Mythic being tuned around gear equal to or greater than what drops in the raid itself.
In the first 5 bosses of Mythic nighthold my guild went from a raid average of ilvl 899 to 901. We were in gear of equal ilvl to what was dropping and we BARELY made the Enrage on Krosus every week. It was incredibly frustrating, we had to come in with our game faces on, with runes and good food buffs to kill farm bosses. In previous expansions, due to the fact that killing a progression boss would up your whole raid ilvl average by 1-3 item levels usually, re-kills were vastly less tense.

The whole experience was just tedious. A lot of people just burned out.

>>383779383
Top guilds PTR test months in advance.

>>383779402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2sVxeDu180
Main tank of Method, the guild we're talking about, Rates BDK as the second best tank and alternates between his druid and his DK.

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>>383779349
Everyone already knows the story is pants on head retarded, there isn't anything to defend.

>>383773716
>im poor
its less than 15 bucks lmao

>>383779476
I'll do the same
Occasionally I'll make an alt and start leveling it and just start thinking about how fun it was the first time I went through the starting areas and that now it's all gone. The zones were all revamped in Cata and the friends I played with at the time are long gone as well.

>>383779476
>>383779659
The nostalgia is strong in these ones.

>>383779405
You seriously underestimate how stupid the average player is.

>>383778730
They're slowly incrementing the instant level along with patches so new players aren't forever behind.

>>383774440
its elitism, which isnt surprising to see on /v/

they have to feel like special snowflakes and i mean the game has to actively go out their way to make them feel like special snowflakes, instead of being secure in their achievements and knowing that everyone worth a shit is aware of the difficulty of their achievements

for a lot of them that's likely caused by the fact they can only clear heroic, which impresses absolutely no one, because raiding is a lot harder mechanically now than it was in the old days, where you just had to gear up 40 non-retards through endless grinding to clear

>>383775731
> I'd rather see shit drop even if its not for me
You do see it now. Even with personal loot. And I disagree about it being bad - after seeing 3 guilds fall apart due to loot drama, I'd much rather delegate that shit to an RNG algorithm than ever run master looter again.

>Ironically a 15 year old game in FFXI has the ideal endgame set up for an MMO
The way endgame works in XI right now is pretty great, but is only possible due to gear swapping and unless some other game adopts that mechanic, I don't expect to see that kind of lateral content progression anywhere else.

>>383771485
All the contacts I had in method have quit the game cause playing the game hardcore sucks right now. The only people who have stuck around hardcore raiding in WoW are shitters, there aren't any good players left in the game

>>383772501
this! nhc and hc are ez af and mythic is like one wrong action from a single raider and the whole raid is fucked most of the time. titanforge also killed my interest in mythic raiding bc i can get the same epixxx from lfr nhc and hc

I'm just hoping the new expansion will be MoP tier.

MoP was fresh, even if it originated from a meme. A new continent with new races and lore, more focus on Alliance vs Horde.

In Legion, they just took every loose thread remaining from Warcraft 3 onward and tried to tie them together in an expansion to remove the Burning Legion from the equation, at least for the time being. It feels like something leading up to either a definite end or a reset.

Of we're getting South Seas expansion with Naga and N'zoth as big bads, player ships and goblin vs gnome tinkers that'd be a nice change of pace from time travel orc shenanigans and the drab green Legion aesthetics.

>>383779878
>after seeing 3 guilds fall apart due to loot drama, I'd much rather delegate that shit to an RNG algorithm than ever run master looter again.

Fucking this
I don't ever want to listen to people argue about DKP again.

I'm on Fallen Avatar and I can personally assure you it is NOT mechanically impossible. The only reason Method haven't killed it yet is because they're simply not that good. If any of the famous old school guilds like Death and Taxes and Nihilum were still raiding, we'd have seen the world first already. Time and time again it's proven that Kungen > Sco

>>383780043
Method have killed it twice. They've been on KJ prog since week 1.

>>383775170
im the opposite, i never played raiding based MMOs (closest being Guild Wars)

i got into WoW and raiding at the end of WoD and I'm still having a blast with it. guild drama is starting to put a hamper on that tho

>that Wildmeme guild that claimed WoW was too easy and died not even halfway through Tomb

Lmao

>>383779998
>more focus on Alliance vs Horde

I can't get into the faction war because they're so bad at coming up with reasons for the Horde and Alliance to ever still be at war with one another.

Right now the Alliance are pissed off at the Horde because they think that they were abandoned at the Broken Shore.
And apparently the Horde haven't thought to maybe tell the Alliance that their heroes were all getting their shit pushed in and they had to retreat. Hell they could just have Thrall go talk to the alliance since he's basically already one.

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Because raiding is boring fucking garbage.

The only reason raiding became popluar is because in the early days of WoW people got through all the fun exploration and leveling and discovery, and were then struck with the matter of "What do I do now?"

WoW's answer was raids. Which are fucking banal, boring, but it's something to do in the game you've invested dozens if not hundreds of hours in and made many friends in.

Raiding was never a good idea, it was never particularly fun, and it was never well designed. It was just something that was there.

The part about WoW people liked was the social interaction, but more than that what they liked is exploring this incredibly huge open world full of places to explore, moreso because it was a multiplayer game that felt alive, with lots of people constantly traveling from place to place.

Flying mounts and the emphasis on rushing to endgame content killed that. Do you have any reason to go to 90% of the places in WoW after you reach max level? The answer is fuck no.

>>383780365
You make it sound like WoW was the first mmo with raids

>>383779353
Latching on to the subscription fee that's about the price of a single lunch in a first-world country instead of the myriad problems with the actual gameplay can only mean that you are one of the asshurt BRs it is meant to keep out. Go play Tibia or something - WoW is not for you.

>>383780331
There's literally no point in the Horde even existing anymore. The Orcs can go back to Draenor at literally any point they choose after WoD.
Tauren are, lore wise, closer to the Alliance than the Horde through the Cenarion Circle anyway, Blood Elves never made sense as part of the Horde to begin with, Trolls are so inconsequential that it wouldn't be strange if they just joined the Alliance, Goblins who cares lol.
The only Horde race that makes any sense being in conflict with anyone is the Undead.

>>383780365
I play on an RP realm and know people who regularly run IC campaigns in old zones. You're playing the game wrong if you're not seeing people in old areas.

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>>383780365

Let the game die. Let MMO's die. Then maybe some other developer will come up with a formula for the MMO that actually capitalizes on what people who aren't autistic retards actually like about MMO's.

>>383780331
Sylvanas is at the helm and Greymane and pretty much every other Gilnean hate her and the Forsaken's guts.

Jaina and the Theramore refugees still blame the Horde in general for Garrosh's nuke, won't get any better if she gets Kul'Tiras to join the Alliance.

And there's a dozen other past incidents that aren't easily forgotten, even if they've learned to work together on occasion.

>>383780513

>I play on an RP realm

You're not playing WoW dude.

>>383780469

For the majority of people, WoW was their introduction to raiding and the emphasis on "endgame content" in MMO's.

And even if we disregard that, everything I said applies to every MMO with raids that came before WoW.

>>383780365
>people like this will never feel the collective joy of finally downing a boss after 400 pulls over 3-4 weeks of progression

Feel bad for you my man

Oh fuck me lads, did I make a mistake starting on one of those servers for beginners? I started playing for the first time and didn't give it any thought really, was just planning to switch servers once I hit a high level and get the hang of the game, but god damn, the server transfer costs 25 fucking Euros. That's insane. I'm still a low level, should I just trash this character, make a new one?

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>>383780626
>complain that nobody interacts anymore
>you're not playing the game if youre on a realm type that encourages interaction

>>383780480
It seems like the Forsaken should be in conflict with everyone because of all the fucked up shit they do.

I really can't imagine the Orcs or Tauren being okay with the Forsaken making more undead, or continuing to make their plagues.
Goblins don't really have any faction loyalty except to whomever can pay them the most.
Aren't the trolls that are part of the horde a really small faction lore wise?

>>383780758
Start over on a high pop server.

>>383780783
Yeah Darkspear are a small tribe that broke off from the Amani, they aren't in conflict with the Alliance in any way aside from their association with the Orcs.

>>383780758
Like the other person said; make a character on a high population server that has an equal or higher population of the faction that you want to play.

Trust me, I have a Horde shaman on a low pop server that's mostly Alliance and it's a pain in the ass to do any quests out in the world.

>>383773558
Then why can't EU guilds composed of adults clear the raid? Are EU adults dumber than Amerifats?

>>383780695
The question is, is that fun worth more than the weeks of having to play with autistic crybabies? I'm no expert and the only raid tier I properly finished was T11 but it definitely feels worse now than it did then. And it was a mess then.

Even most heroic guilds think they're super hardcore and lose their nut whenever they start wiping. I mean fuck me, I know someone who actually thought he might be the best Enh Shaman on the realm and he's fucking 7/9HC. The community now is trash.

>>383779194
>>383779254
Sunwell and ICC were time-gated, Ulduar was not

>>383780695
He's not exactly wrong though. While raids can be fun, when they the only form of viable endgame content, they end up killing the larger game by making it just something you have to go through before you get to raid.

It's not just raids too - any form of repeatable instanced content will eventually degenerate a game world into a glorified instance selection menu.

>>383780935
>>383780758
>Trust me, I have a Horde shaman on a low pop server that's mostly Alliance and it's a pain in the ass to do any quests out in the world.

only an issue on PvP servers, which being on one I would discourage people from starting on since world PvP is completely retarded atm

>>383780365
Only reason i was raiding in wrath was so i could get them juicy bis trinkets and weapons for pvp. Was still fun tho

>>383780783
The entire Horde is a very small faction lorewise. Orcs left on a few boats that humans had laying around, trolls fit on the leftover space, and this little "fleet" was enough to tip the scales in the tauren/centaur war. Then the Forsaken are just a tiny part of Lordaeron that the Lich King lost control over, and the Blood Elves were almost genocided. That's why faction conflict is always retarded. The Alliance should be orders of magnitude larger than the Horde, so they should've wiped them out long ago for all the shit they pulled. Of course there's always a justification from the Horde fanboys, but why would the Alliance agree with that and let a group of genocidal rebels occupy Lordaeron?

How often do WoW threads pop up on /v/?

>>383780480
I've always been wondering but why were Night Elves in the alliance in the first place? Does that make sense?

>>383778486
Wrong.
I see you've never participated in a pug run.

>>383774282
That 1% statistic always boggles my mind

What the fuck did everyone do? There's no way there was enough variety in heroic dungeons and whatnot to keep doing them for fun, and even then if you weren't trying to gear for raids what was the point? The only way I see 1% as remotely possible was in Vanilla when gear wasn't as heavily gifted to people and so raiding was out of reach to most users

>>383780480
>>383780783
If they ever do a WoW 2 there will be two factions, the living and the undead.

Screencap this.

>>383781190
Very?

I fucking hopeX-fording is removed next expansion, it was bad in WoD and is worse now.

>Top guilds can't kill C'thun
>Complain he's impossible
>Later turns out they weren't itemizing properly or utilizing certain buffs to allow their healers to last the duration of the fight pre-nerf
>Top guilds can't kill Yogg Saron
>Complain he's impossible
>Later tuns out they weren't even doing the fight right
>Top guilds can't kill Kiljaeden Smith
>Complain he's impossible
>??????

>>383781251
>What the fuck did everyone do?
Spend months getting to the level cap and exploring the world. You'll never see another vanilla experience in WoW because PTR betas and datamining ruined the need to discover anything when you can just google how literally everything works.

>>383781251
judging from my casual friends, they lvled alts and farmed mounts

>>383780804
>>383780935
Thanks, already switched, fucking hell that would have sucked, 25 Euros is fucking ridiculous.

>>383781251
> The only way I see 1% as remotely possible was in Vanilla when gear wasn't as heavily gifted to people and so raiding was out of reach to most users

In Vanilla people leveled. That was the content for most people. In BC having to go through the gear ladder kept most people out, I suppose.

>>383781273
How do you avoid getting your threads autosaged?

>>383781382
as far as i understand the problem is knockback and soaking mechanic occuring at almost the same time, giving you almost no time to get into position

>>383770438
While you arent completely wrong with multiple top end guilds saying quits to this tier on "hardcore" raiding from what ive heard Mythic KJ is currently near impossible with best attempts being only in 86%ish range.

>>383781252
Well the dialogue that you have with Varimathras in the next raid basically confirms that Sylvanas is corrupted and fucking with shit in the shadows

>>383770438

Problem with hard raids in the current WoW is that you have really no incentive to finish it. All you get is (probably, haven't played this game since nighthold) a mount for finishing the raid and slighty better gear that will be worthless in the next raid. It was different back then when you actually got the best gear from raids, nowadays you can just get lucky and get the same gear from different difficulties.

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>>383780626
>You're not playing WoW dude.
You're a fucking idiot. Went on an RP server and it was the best experience I have had in this game easily since BC.

>go into Ironforge
>In the main square a group of dwarves are performing drills
>have a look in the library and there's a tour group going through
>questing through Loch Modan constantly seeing streams of people rushing back and forth on the roads

>no Australian RP servers

>>383781142
The same goes for the Alliance though.
Humans are predominantly those of the Kingdom of Stormwind, which was destroyed by the Horde in the Second War, all that remains are the refugees who fled to Lordaeron for Asylum and then later returned back then. The other kingdoms have all been destroyed since then as well, save Kul'Tiras which isn't in the game yet.

Night Elves have had very low numbers to begin with, being a long-lived race with low birth rates.

Dranei are again, a smaller number of refugees from the Exodar, and also a long-lived race with also possibly low birth rate.

Dwarves and Gnomes probably share second place after humans, but dwarves probably lost a lot of people in their civil war, and the gnomes lost many when Gnomeregan was irradiated.

Worgen, again, refugees on a few boats who made it to Teldrassil.

>>383781237
wrong how?
that's how it's worked whenever I used it, or when my guild is short handed occasionally and needs to grab a couple people from the party finder.

>>383781501
why dont they just stack warlocks and monks and abuse their teleports?
man im so smart how come the top dogs havent thought of this yet

>>383780982
Maybe it's different for us, I raid on the Spanish servers, and many raiders know each other IRL, organize meetups and whatnot. People in general are pretty normal, coming from all walks of life. From the gym addicts to the ultra neets and everything inbetween.

I used to raid in international guilds in WotLK and Cata but went back to my local servers because at the end of the day the overall mood is much better with people you know and can more easily relate to, we all pretty much know each other in all the top guilds, have our own dramas and rivalries, and it still feels somewhat oldschoolish, even if the progression is a bit slower. The community is smaller but much tighter.

Since everyone knows each other you kind of have to still mind your actions, if you're a dick news will spread fast and every other (good) guild will avoid you. It's not like in the international scene where you can just hop realms and create a whole new identity.

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>>383781461

>>383781461
The WoW threads are usually narrowly tailored to some subject of the game unlike the FFXIV threads which resemble generals that don't belong on /v/

>>383781428
No problem
If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

>>383781554
Good RP servers are the fucking best. One time I ran into a group of like 20 people roleplaying Stormwind guards in Westfall, patrolling the roads and shit while a pair of Rogues had to evade them. It was great fun to interact with them.

>>383781461
keep the conversation focused on the game rather than talking about catgirls with dicks

>>383780475
You should prepare your own meals.

>>383781669
Oh god you just reminded me. I ran into a corrupt Stormwind guard who ended up paying me to set up random civvies.

>>383781635
Oh okay. Next time I make a thread I'll have the OP be more specific, though I didn't make the current autosaging thread

>>383781716
That's /vg/ and a good reason why people would rather talk about the game on /v/

>>383781819
It still occurs and even if the OP is narrowly tailored the thread will almost always diverge into shitposting. This thread is generally converged on raiding and the"death" of WoW

>>383781382
>Later turns out they weren't itemizing properly or utilizing certain buffs to allow their healers to last the duration of the fight pre-nerf
sick revisionist history bruh

>>383781635
>>383781819
WoW threads usual turn into really stupid discussions between hypecasual players on why WoW is dead
>Cata killed WoW because they nerfed the initial dungeons 5 months into the expansion! Who cares if the raids were still extremely hard muh 5 man content only retards struggled with!

>>383781918
>>383781990
Is the WoW /vg/ general autistic as well or is that just a /xiv/ phenomenon

>>383782046
All MMO generals are hellholes that should be avoided

>>383782046
It's a pretty safe assumption that any game thread on /vg/ is autistic.

>>383782046
All generals are autistic and full of attentionwhore tripfags. Trust me, I've tried far too many times to join those communities.

>>383782046
Everything on /vg/ is autistic

>level cap never raised from 60
>expansions all the same as they were
>each raid tier early bosses tuned to the gear from the tier beneath
>5 man and heroic 5 mans offer less stats for less difficulty
>level an alt and begin glorious trek through all raid tiers
>or get carried through stuff a few tiers back from current to gear up and join guild where you're needed
Would you this timeline, anon?

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>>383781142
I don't even give a fuck about lore, I just hate people who "main" horde. They are always the ones who cringe everyone in the game with their unnecessary devotion to their faction. Not to mention they are always the shitters to have taunt binds and will /lol at you when they kill you. Does horde just have more children or is it purely the LOK TAR O GAR XD shit. T. Anon who played mostly horde at first now plays both sides

>>383779938
>fragnance

>>383782046
It used to be decent, but it get swarmed by name faggots and their minions and thats all left there.

Attention whores and their followers

>>383781561
Stormwind is a mix of all the destroyed human kingdoms. It should be a healthy agrarian society, which puts it orders of magnitude above what the Horde can be.
There is absolutely zero evidence that night elves have low birth rates. A dying child in a society that has one baby every decade would get Tyrande herself to visit, instead nobody in Astranaar gives a shit.
Dwarves civil war was HUNDREDS of years ago. Do you know how big the population of the US was 300 years ago?
Gilneans had a nation wide evacuation with night elf aid. You're absolutely delusional if you think that's equivalent to "OH SHIT GRAB THAT BOAT AND LET'S GET OUT OF HERE!".

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>>383782070
>>383782087
>>383782096
>>383782143
I just want to talk about the game without all the avatarfagging

You guys are lucky

>>383779938
Exactly. When was the last time you saw a player with such an ability and movement in WoW? Kungen puts the game on another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a player with his skill and passion for the game again. Method breaks records. Exorsus breaks records. Kungen breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

>>383782170
>level an alt and begin glorious trek through all raid tiers
That system isn't remotely fun for alts.

>>383782170
How to kill a game within 3 months the post

>>383780108
>falling for a Twitch chat spam.
AHAHAHA

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2nd Best Transformer game after Devastation

>>383782170
>each raid tier early bosses tuned to the gear from the tier beneath

You don't want your game to have any new players whatsoever, do you? Vertical progression + no catch up mechanics will mean that after a couple of years the only people playing will be the autistic grognards who got in on day 1 and kept no-lifing 24/7 since then (assuming the game even survives that long).

>>383782641
>no catch up
What makes you think doing 5 mans and heroics wouldn't let you skip raid tiers?

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>>383782634
Where do you think you are?

>>383782641
>Vertical progression + no catch up mechanics will mean that after a couple of years the only people playing will be the autistic grognards who got in on day 1 and kept no-lifing 24/7 since then (assuming the game even survives that long).
If WildStar taught us anything it's that designing a game for the vocal vanilla WoW hardcore raider demographic just gets you a game so ded it makes SWTOR look like pre-Cata WoW.

>>383775257
>BC added heirloom gear
What....?

>>383782807
Too be fair there was a lot more wrong about Wildstar
But yeah, it's also why you don't make a game for the 1% of hardcore raiders that don't exist anymore, or don't want to change games.

Although they did a good job with player housing.

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>>383782807
>the vocal vanilla WoW hardcore raider

They ever come with the ego of "even a bad Wildstar player is better than any current-WoW raider", and this is what ends up happening.

>>383782807
>>383782961
Major problem with MMO's is they try to be WoW and have vertical progression instead of horizontal options, the only one that looked promising before they fired the main guy, changed direction and turned it into another WoW clone was firefall

>>383783164
Wasn't it a former Blizzard employee that ran Firefall into the ground?

>>383783164
Firefall also came with the problem of needing a higher speed internet connection. There's a reason action MMOs only work large-scale in Korea and Japan, which have fast internet and are densely concentrated populations.

>>383783124
>US

Found your problem

>>383782746
Then everyone will just do those and then roll into the latest raid. Not sure how that is different from the current system.

>>383781078
>any form of repeatable instanced content will eventually degenerate a game world into a glorified instance selection menu
any form of repeatable world content will eventually degenerate a game world into a glorified walking simulator based menu.

>>383783309
shhh he's being retarded on purpose
dont fail for his bait

>>383783250
It was also former Blizzard employees who thought WildStar could build a successful fucking player base through appealing to hardcore raiders. Like, motherfucker, did you not look at the metrics before you left Blizzard and see like only 8% of players set foot in pre-Wrath raids let alone cleared them?

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>>383783124
God that was so good and the best part was the raiding community saw it coming a mile away
>Infinite trials
>Day raiding
>zero preperation

>>383783250
No he was the guy in charge at first then they got chinese investors that just wanted WoW with guns so they got rid of him

>>383783265
I think we're at the point where net speed isn't a huge issue now

>>383783401
>I think we're at the point where net speed isn't a huge issue now
Not if you want a limited number of people playing your MMO, but they live and die on population numbers. It's the same reason MMOs which don't have graphics that can run on a toaster always struggle, because you want as many people to play as possible. And if like me you live in a shitty neighborhood where your choices are Comcast or nothing, you aren't going to be playing action MMOs.

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>>383770438

>the game became so shit my buddy gave me his account out of the blue
>has flying unlocked for both Legion and a Warlords
>plenty of pets, mounts and toys
>Shit ton of gold to spare for renewing the game

Good thing moonguard's population is around the same or else i wouldn't even bother. I miss the days of making buddies in a dungeon and having fun doing my quests without any sort of hand holding

>>383783309
The difference is that you don't have to do that. If you want to skip shit you can just do Legion questing and have equivalent greens to the previous raid tiers, then do 5 mans and mythic+ or whatever you do now.
But you don't have to.
If you want to raid Wrath you can start there with the quests in the north.
If you want to raid Panda you can do the same.
If you want to do it all you can do that and there will be some population or guilds doing what it is you want to do.

>>383783395
How many terrible games have former Blizzard employees made?
They're also responsible for Hellgate: London

>>383783514
I mean you could just go the destiny route with a shitload of shards that only support a small number of players and base the game around squads

>>383772501
10 mans were always ez mode garbage and were the beginning of the end for quality wow raiding.

>>383776620
>It's the player base ageing out due to life circumstances

No you moron hardcore raiders have always been post college aged adults. This meme needs to die.

>>383783554
>Pretending Moonguard is for anything but ERP

>>383780475
Actually wow in Brazil costs half the price - it's 8 dollars now I think.

>>383775278
>mythic gorefiend
>not complex

did you even raid in wod

>>383783514
then explain call of duty
if a good internet connection is a prerequisite for playing an action mmo, then why hasn't that stopped call of duty? surely, people with shit internet connections just don't play, right? but, then, how do they get top numbers?

>>383773831
>We've also reached the point where having to balance the final boss around method so they don't down it in 10 minutes (and the resulting backlash from the 'community') compared to what the average raid guild can actually achieve has reached it's zenith.
I never thought about this, but it does make sense.

>>383783580
Hellgate: "no refunds despite the broken web store we used putting 99 copies of our $200 deluxe edition in every cart" London? I didn't know they were related to Blizzard.

>>383783674
see
>>383783604
CoD isn't pulling data for a hundred people over a massive zone you dumbass.

>>383783745
retard, if your internet connection is shit, connecting to a couple of people isn't going to magically make it better

>>383783365
Except the walking simulator still keeps you in the game world, which means you actually interact with other players who are not in your party/guild (whether you like it or not). This leads to more emergent play situations, social interaction and a feeling of being in actual persistent shared world - i.e. all the things that actually make the MMO genre worthwhile.

>>383783561
>If you want to raid Wrath you can start there with the quests in the north.
>If you want to raid Panda you can do the same.
>If you want to do it all you can do that and there will be some population or guilds doing what it is you want to do.

Except you can do that now too? I fail to see what exactly is supposed to incentivize people to do obsolete raid tiers except some kinda herald of the titans-style achievements or titles.

>>383783606
>hardcore raiders have always been post college aged adults
What sort of fucking agenda are you pushing with these lies? The only "post college aged adults" I've ever met via WoW were the type who would log on for three hours a week to do content tourism shit and chat with casual guilds.

>>383783745
Did you even read my post? theres only like 20 people max over a small zone at any given time

>>383783848
Assuming you're the Destiny guy, I was using your post as a contrasting example to WoW. The less positional data you need to receive the less the bandwidth, which is why sharded games like Destiny don't suffer like action MMOs.

>>383775170
I am still raiding, but I do only normal/heroic content with a casual guild. It's mostly an excuse to chat with people and have some fun together.

>>383783745
>Flagship Studios was a computer game company founded by Bill Roper along with Max Schaefer, Erich Schaefer, and David Brevik, former high level Blizzard North executives.

Yup, former Blizzard employees

>>383783942
Yeah so why not go that route, as long as you're good with choke points you can cycle players in and out so you still get the persistent world feeling

>>383784002
>Yeah so why not go that route, as long as you're good with choke points you can cycle players in and out so you still get the persistent world feeling
Ironically, while being easier on low-bandwidth players it's much more complex on the server side.

>>383783628

There's still a lot of player-driven events, which is pretty nice

>not using a lonely virgin for his gold

I used to play FF XIV, and I tried WoW out.
Damn, I gotta admit, the combat system is on point, it's so dynamic.
I just started, I'm playing Marksmanship hunter (yeah I know).
Is it a good time to start ?

>>383784137
Yeah but we're at the point where thats been proven to be possible, as long as you're smart with portals/choke points between zones you can control it

>>383784234
Possible and cost effective aren't always the same thing. Destiny they can do it because they have the player numbers to justify the extra costs, but if you're a startup MMO without the backing and brand recognition Bungie had it's a lot more feasible to do traditional MMO combat.

>>383784204
>is it a good time to start
What do you want to do in it?

>>383784204
It's as good of a time as any I guess.
I'm pretty burned out on WoW now so I want to say that you should stop playing now, but it's not a bad time to start since you can gear up quickly once you reach cap by doing world quests, specifically the ones on the Broken Isles, and there are a lot of other catch-up mechanics implemented now as well.

>>383784204
It's weird how every other MMO does so many things better than WoW except its combat system. XIV was close, but still nowhere near how good WoW feels to play.

>>383784368
Maybe you could just have like a hub with a mission board and you can auto join any mission with open slots up to 20?

>>383784478
I actually prefer SWTOR's combat to WoW, it feels tighter and the increased focus on interrupts and stuns means it feels more like an actual fight than wailing on moving target dummies. It's a shame the rest of it is so lacking though.

>>383784204

I've played FF XIV not too long ago and i see your point, i didn't really like the universal countdown for all your abilities and how zones has to load. In world of warcraft, you won't get that unless you go for a dungeon, or change continent

I'd say go to a private server, either Vanilla or Wrath of the Lich King. Back then you had to ask people for dungeons, and you'd come out of it with buddies and good memories. You also had to read your quests instead of being pointed out where to go 24/7

If that doesn't bother you, retail is pretty good for exploring zones and reaching end game content. There's a ton of shit to see and to explore so you will definitely enjoy the experience either way. Whatever people say, this is pretty good because your experience will be fresh

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Post transmogs

still need to get new boots for mine

>>383772468
Great, another chink/korean MMO with the asian asthetics. No thanks.

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>>383784698

>>383784734
>MoP unironically has better Asian aesthetics than Asian MMOs
How do weebs even live with themselves lmao?

>>383784368
I'd like to aim for endgame, in a casual/friendly guild if it's possible.

>>383784459
I know how you feel, but everything feel so fresh to me, especially exploring, I like to just hop on my mount and travelling in the seamless world.

>>383784478
WoW combats are perfect for me, the thing is, you also can customize your class properly which is nice to feel that in the fights. In FF XIV, all black mages are played the same way for exemple, no tree. It's even worse with Stormblood since there's no stat point anymore.

>>383784652
I played WoW in 2006 and it's one of my best memory but I only played a few months, I didn't really have the will to get invested in a MMORPG. I just went back now almost 10 years later. I still want to try the official servers first, but thanks for the tip

>>383785050
>I'd like to aim for endgame, in a casual/friendly guild if it's possible.
If you want to be doing world firsts and shit you're not going to find anyone friendly. If you just want to do the current content on normal you'll be fine.

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>>383784698

>>383785026
I have no idea why it is like that. I find their history, culture and food interesting but I do not want to play in fantasy Asia. Especially not fantasy Asia inspired by JRPGs and Anime.

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>>383784746
Finna changing this transmog now since everyone and their warrior mom has it, it was a bit more unique pre-opening of Tomb

>>383785050
Don't spoil anything with guides till you're at level cap if you can help it

>>383785050
>>383784204
during levelling, dont worry about endgame yet, just try to enjoy the process since it's going to take a while. you can join a social guild if you like the company but that's up to you

once you reach max level, look for a small guild that does normal/heroic runs a few times a week (depending on your schedule). dont fall for any of the massive guilds spamming invites everywhere

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>>383784698

>>383785142
Yeah I don't want to do any of that "1st world clear", just doing things in a chill way. Even if we do mythic like months after good guilds on the server I don't mind at all.

>>383784652
Those glasses are rosy as fuck, they were good for their time but by modern standards they suck and aged horribly

The reason people remember firefighter and lich king and putricide isn't because they were so good but because all the other fights were so bland in comparison

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Did they bring back Momentum Havoc yet?

No?

Still not worth my time.

>want to resub
>remember Im an antisocial retard so I cant do any serious content
>remember how old and clunky looking casting animations are on my mage while melee get flashy new animations
>remember that PvPing is no longer a viable endgame since it all went to shit
>remember that mog runs require me to wait an entire fucking week just for a chance to get that one stupid fucking belt
>remember that lvling alts is fucking boring now and AP grind at level cap is even more abhorrent
>remember that the only content I can do is world quests and these cap in a couple of hours so you have to wait three fucking days for them to reset
>oh and please dont forget the garris... ehm class hall facebook mini game
I think Im finally free guys

>>383785050

Sounds like retail is perfect for you, anon

If you want to see other people doing shit around the server, join moonguard. Despite what people say, you'll definitely have fun watching people do their shit there. Just avoid goldshire if you don't want to see degenerates being degenerates.

>>383785379
>>383785382
That's what I'm doing, I'm just enjoying the game at my rythm. I want to join a small guild at max lvl.
Even now I meet people in dungeons, I just say "Hi" and try to talk sometime. Some guys are actually happy to have a dicussion

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>been here for like 6 years
>there have been 'wow is fucking dead/dying' threads for at least that long

woah.....it's almost like....you're living in a....bubble.....and your feelings......do jack shit......to hard statistics.........


woah.....

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>>383785634
Thats the way to do it anon

>>383785489
You might never do the current tier of mythic in a casual guild, but all you're really missing out on is e-peen. If you can deal with not having those sort of achievements there is plenty of game to enjoy, especially if you haven't played in over 10 years.

>>383785602
Retail means Roleplay ?
I'm on european servers though, I'm on Ravencrest for now, is it a good server ?

>>383785583
>how old and clunky looking casting animations are on my mage while melee get flashy new animations

Most casters are getting new animations in 7.3

>>383785754
That's perfectly okay, I don't really know how dungeons work in the game, raids on normal difficulty will be enough for me

>>383785792

Retail means Official server

can't really help you on the European side, but they probably have something similar going on with their roleplay servers. not really sure

>>383784636
Really? I enjoyed TOR a lot solely for the class stories a couple of years back, but I found the combat and movement to be absolutely horrible and was the reason I quit after a month.

>>383785792
I don't know how it is as a server, but alliance side has very good pve guilds and high rated pvp players and it also has one of the highest populations. So I guess it's quite elitist, but probably not dead with many guild options to choose from.

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>>383784698

>>383785806

on top of that, they actually look nice

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im flying to argus bye losers

>>383786152
It's mostly to do with the gap closer abilities to be honest. WoW's are really lackluster when it comes to charging to moving targets but in SWTOR they're quick, satisfying and never deposit you out of melee range of the enemy.

>>383785987
Allright thanks, didn't know this term

>>383786195
thanks famalam, I made a human, I'll try to find a casual guild

>>383785710
>hard statistics
You mean the ones they stopped showing because it was making them look bad? Woah......

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>>383784698
DH shitter signing in

>>383779408
>considering the longest clear times were during the peak days of wow

when bosses were also buggy broken messes

>>383786297
I played Kotor back in the closed beta/alpha. Never saw the appeal of playing a space WoW made by the company who spits out SJW RPGs and shit, Especially not how fucking dumb the animations look. It feels not Star Warsy at all and the trailers are a blatant lie when one see content from it. Blizzard do better in engine cutscenes animations than Bioware will ever do even with EAs fancy engines. Fucking hell.

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>>383784698
Post selfies