Rank these 4 games in terms of most innovative, most influential,

SM64 aged like spoiled milk.

>>383666103
also didn't innovate shit.

>>383665887
>doom
>doom
>doom

All seem boring now because they became standards and baselines for future gaming.

Doom for FPS
SM64 for 3D Gaming in General + Platforming
SF2 for Fighting Games
FF7 for RPGs

Over time, of course these standards were built upon and there are much more exciting content available today....but without these games, vidya may have died.

Overall though, Super Mario 64 set the standard for movement in 3D gaming and is probably the most innovative and influential game ever made.

In terms of holding up, SM64 has some outdated mechanics so it may have to go to Doom.

>>383665887
SFII is a giant turd now, but the rest hold up alright.

>innovation

SM64 > Doom > SF2 > FF7

>Influential

SM64 > FF7 = doom > SF2

>holds up

SF2 > Doom > SM64 > FF7

Street Fighter II is probably the most innovative out of those.

>>383665887
FF7 was not influential or innovative at all

Doom, M64 & SF2 are all pretty top tier, but fighters & platformers are kinda quiet these days, while FPS is still all the rage, so if you had to pick one to win influence, Doom wins pretty easily

>>383665887
doom, street fighter (combos alone were huge), ff7, sm64

3D was an inevitability, so sm64 isn't really special or innovative. not to mention nothing really plays like it, which is further proof its legacy is way overblown. same with the 2D games, and most Nintendo games in general.

>>383665887
Half-life2>FF7>Super Mario 64>Doom>Street Fighter

>>383666349
I mean Super Turbo btw, not like the first iteration of SF2 I guess I should used that instead, but the most updated version.

>>383665887
Doom is the only one of these games I played.

>>383666471
I actually was thinking of putting HL2 up there but didn't think it was fair cause it's like like a decade older than them. Maybe HL1 could be put in?

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>>383666157
>>383666103
>pic related - the post

>>383666439
ff7 wasn't innovative but it is influental

>>383666439
it introduced limit breaks didn't it? it did something...

>>383666561
Goldeneye would be a better candidate

>>383666561
Hl1 is only relevant due to freeman's mind.

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>>383665887
All I play these days are older games. Anything before PS2 fails me 9 times out of 10. I am deciding I am an expert on these matters and anyone saying otherwise is a weeb cocksucker. Id use different games, but these work.

Innovative:
FF7 > Doom > SF2 > SM64

Influential:
FF7 > Doom = SM64 = SF2

Holds up:
SM64 > FF7 < Doom > SF2

The thread can rest.

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>>383666436

>>383666671
He's right.

>Innovation
doom
SM64
FFVII
SF2
>influential
FFVII
SM64
Doom
SF2
>holds up best
Doom
SF2
SM64=FF7

>>383666439
>FF7 was not influential or innovative at all
It popularized using FMV cut scenes in games instead of rendering them in engine.

>>383665887
if you love doom: https://js-dos.com/games/doom2.exe.html

>>383666771
>>383666615
FF7 was popular because Sony poured millions behind it for marketing

it wasn't at all influential, it did zero things new
it didn't fucking invent FMV's either

>>383666457
Would you say combos in hack and slash and bet em ups could be traced to SF2 even?

>>383666857
Youd better back that up with some facts son.

>>383666857
>it did zero new things
true

>wasn't influential
retard

>>383666436
yeah, now that you mention it. doom didn't really do anything new, since wolfensteinn existed previously.

>>383666656
I agree with this,

Though I think Doom only does
not hold up because you might as well get doom 2 and mods if you wanna play that kind of game.

Though OP should have used the original wolfenstein, not doom.

DOOM > Street Fighter II > SM64 > FF7

>>383666871
Not him.

No.

>>383666871
sure why not.

>>383666857
It didn't have to invent them to influence the market to follow suit and use them.

>>383666656
>>383666914
samefaggot, FF7 is the only game of those 4 that did nothing new

>>383666914
I didnt say doom 2 didnt hold up. If a game is fun it holds up, looking past graphics and limitations isnt an issue if theres fun involved.

He used doom because doom is more well known than wolfenstein. It was the right call.

What did FF7 innovate?

1. Doom
2. Super Mario 64
3. Street Fighter II

>>383666656
what did FF7 innovate?

>>383666887
Was SF2 really the first respectable fighter?

>>383666994
FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are. There was nothing as complex in the mainstream as FF7. Suddenly Firaga wasnt just firaga, it was firaga with a spellboost on a character that benefited from having this equipped on his weapon. The complexity was the innovation, not counting the half dozen other things that other games may have done first but not as well received (FMV's, 3d overworld, limit break, etc)

>>383667041
what did Mario 64 innovate? it wasn't the first 3D game.

>>383667120
Materia.

Find me a modern rpg that isnt a throwback that doesnt have a deep system that compounds effects instead of having a single base "this skill gives +10 magic"

>SM64
innovated the camera system used across the entire vidya industry (it's called camera for a fucking reason, lakitu follows you around with one). Standardized how movement in 3D space should be done

>DOOM
laid down the foundation for FPS games

>SF2
combos arose from glitches, blocking system used widely across the genre

>FF7
????

>>383665887
You already posted them in the correct order OP.
Though I never played FF7. Am I really missing out that much?

>>383665887
most innovative:
>doom
>sf2
>mario 64
>ff7

most influential:
>doom
>ff7
>mario 64
>sf2

holds up best:
>doom
>mario 64
>sf2
>ff7

>>383667142
it was the first one with combos (which were just a happy accident)

In terms of innovation and influence:
Doom, for helping spawn an entire genre.
SF2, for having a massive lasting design impact within its genre, that's felt in a huge amount of modern fighters.
SM64, for being pretty largely relevent within its genre.
In terms of how they held up, I'd probably put it SF2 > Doom > SM64. Never played FF7, and RPGs are firmly not my genre, so I'm not sure on that front. Also massive bias cause I'm a fps retard fanboy.

>>383667175
>FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are.

how? It was just an extension of other FF games

>Suddenly Firaga wasnt just firaga, it was firaga with a spellboost on a character that benefited from having this equipped on his weapon.

how is this diffferent from the eidolon system in FF6?

>>383667190
Camera controls

>>383667268
not really, FF6, 9, 14 are better

>>383667190
Camera you baboon learn your gaming history

FF7 is literally just the final fantasy formula with a shiny coat of paint, it's not an innovative game.

>>383667365
>how is this diffferent from the eidolon system in FF6?
Materia also have negative effects attached to them, and the effects are simply passive instead of being bonuses on level up

>>383667365
Its different because eidolons were essentially another equippable stat boost.

Materia had dozens of different combinations to equate to different builds for each character depending on the weapon or armor you choose to equip and what you choose to equip to it.

Now tell me how FF7's system is different from nier automata?

>>383667267
don't forget shoryuken motions and hadoukens being a staple in fg.

>>383667175
>FF7 reworked what modern RPGS are

the game at its base level was the same as FF1 and 3-6, it didn't rework shit. Having unique mechanics doesn't make it innovative, every FF has unique mechanics. It's the base game that matters in innovation

>>383667578
hilariously capcom is abandoning it with this down down bullshit

>>383667621
Then tell me how the unique mechanics in ff7 dont affect modern rpgs. Ill wait.

Is all this naive backlash just because FF7 is a popular game?

>>383664282
Doom holds up really well and is unironically one of the most influential games of all time.

>>383667190
Camera. Also influenced movement in 3D games for generations to come even if it wasn't the first 3D game. Even Tetsuya Nomura (you may recognize this name as he worked on Final Fantasy 7) admitted he wouldn't have made Kingdom Hearts if not for Super Mario 64.

FF7 was not a bad game, but it did not innovate, and it didn't influence anything.

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>it's a "/v/ ignores the existence of WRPGs despite their objective superiority to JRPGs in every way" thread

Black Isle, Troika, and early Bethesda/Bioware did more for gaming than Square Enix could ever hope to.

>Most innovative
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII
Street Fighter II

>Most influential
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII
Street Fighter II

>Best Aged
Street Fighter II
Doom
Super Mario 64
Final Fantasy VII

>>383666857

>FF7 wasnt influential

fags who grew up crying over the story adulted into the fags "writing" modern games.and making shitty romances, and death as character development burdens we will always bear.

thats pretty fuckinginfluential.

>>383667836
Im not gonna say arena wasnt influential.

OP didnt make it an option.

>>383667695
>Then tell me how the unique mechanics in ff7 dont affect modern rpgs

Well just looking at its own series, most if not all the sequels didn't include them. FF7 is an influential game. It's not an innovative game though

>>383666349
Super Turbo is good faggot.

>>383665887
Doom > Mario > SF
FF7 didn't do shit.

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>FF7 "influential" & "innovative"
>Literally just FF6 in 3D

>Diablo 1
>came out a year before FF7
>invented a genre
>in terms of further influence it made devs think about taking out turn based/ATB for more faster paced action (something i hate but this all comes from Diablo)
>did the FMV bullshit before FF7 "invented it"
>Launched Battle.net, a pioneer for online gaming

FF7 is one of my favourite games ever & i think Diablo ruined CRPG's, but this is just the facts

>>383668104
Most if not all games included improvements or at the least considerations. All of which consisted of more than one way to look at a "firaga" spell. Or an "Attack" stat.

If you want something specifc other than the complexity that materia brought to the RPG scene that I can point to as innovative, I dont have much. FF7 improved on a lot of previously held ideas. Its main claim to fame in changing the scene was making a weapon that has a haste effect, a slow on damage effect, and a permanent HP boost. I dont see how that isnt innovative as someone thats played a modern rpg in the last 20 years.

>>383668383
What game from that era would you replace it with?

>>383665887
Ultima Underworld>>>>> all of them.

>>383668418
>All of which consisted of more than one way to look at a "firaga" spell. Or an "Attack" stat.

can you emphasize this? I have no idea what you're talking about

>>383668401
>in terms of further influence it made devs think about taking out turn based/ATB for more faster paced action

What is Secret of Mana, Tales of Phantasia, or Star Ocean?

>>383668427
Chrono Trigger did much more to the RPG genre, so I'd use that.

>>383668427
not him but OoT for Z targeting, MGS for stealth mechanics, or super metroid for creating an entire subgenre of action adventure

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>>383665887
>innovative

Doom>SM64>FF7>SF2

They all capitalized on already existing genres and/or concepts, but Doom made the more of it.

>influential

Doom>SM64>FF7>SF2

Just take a look at the number of clones spawned by each game.

>holds up

SF2>SM64>Doom>FF7

SF2 holds up best because it is a regular 2D fighting game with top-notch gameplay. The other three relied on the technical novelty for their time, still, of those three, SM64 offers the best gameplay.

>>383668505
Before FF7 firaga was firaga.
The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items and abilities.

FF7 introduced a customization system in which your attack stat was determined by a multitude of self chosen materia (weapons x 3 + traits). Firaga can now slow. It changed the RPG game.

>>383668535
They are not like Diablo

>>383667836
You know Avellone loved FFVII and it influenced him for a lot of stuff in, Planescape, right?

>>383665887
Literally any Final Fantasy was more innovative than 7 or 8.

>>383665887
I don't play fighting games enough to really comment on SF2 and I assume you included FFVII as a joke. So to compare SM64 and DOOM:

SM64 was more innovative and was really a completely new experience. Nothing controlled like it with it's camera system and movement. The developers had to completely rethink how games worked to create Mario's new moveset and level design. DOOM was really just the logical progression from Wolfenstein. It innovated on a tech level but the gameplay was just what id had done before but bigger and better.

Influence is too foggy an area to really judge. Pretty much every game in their respective genres is at least indirectly influenced by them but I don't know how fair it is to credit either of them with that. Outside of the various clones that thrived in the mid-late 90s, very few games really take after specific ideas pioneered by either game, with the exception of Mario's camera. DOOM's influence is very narrow compared to, for example, System Shock, who's innovations in game mechanics, level design, and story telling were a much slower burn, but ultimately spread much more broadly through the industry.

They both hold up great, but I'd have to give it to DOOM just because SM64's camera can be a pain.

>>383667684
Is there any character other than Ryu who has dp inputs in mvci?

>>383668703
>8 wasnt innovative either

cmon now anon....

>>383668464
Only cultured person in here.

>>383668401
Diablo's loot & skill tree are present in most RPG's today also

>>383668697
>The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items and abilities.

>what is leveling up

>>383665887
I see Super Mario 64 there. Are those other games supposed to matter when put next to it? Lol.

>Innovation
SM64>DOOM>FF7>SF2
>Influence
SF2=SM64=DOOM>FF7
>Holds up
SF2>SM64>FF7>DOOM

>>383668839
The attack stat was something that was affected only by equipped items, abilities, and level ups.

That change anything I said?

>>383665887
>FF7 and fighter shit
Irrelevant
>SM64
Great game, transformative, etc., but ultimately heralded the decline of platformers.
>DOOM
Literally the origin of the modern FPS genre. Easily wins all three of your categories.

>>383667778
>influenced movement

then why does nothing else control like a Mario game?

>nomura wouldn't have made KH

oh no....

>ff7 didn't influence anything

false.

>>383668768
I think dante? I don't know stopped caring about that game, dropped SFV too I'm labbing it up in GG right now

>>383668703
nah 8 is innovative, not in a good way but innovative nonetheless. 5 was also less innovative than 7

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>people ITT calling doom innovative when wolfenstein came out before it

>>383668912
>decline of platformers.

True, it made devs think they had to make big open levels that lacked good design with a focus on collecting shit, this wasn't even platforming honestly

Crash was the true successor to 3D platformers & what a surprise the series died when it went open world

>>383668839
Fun fact: In FF6 the only character stats that naturally increase on level up are HP and MP.

>>383668575
MGS's stealth mechanics were basically the same as MG2's. Thief was the real innovator of stealth in the 90s.

>>383668912
>ultimately heralded the decline of platformers

this makes no sense, platformers were very popular until ps3/360.

>>383669052
What did it innovate?

>>383667370

alright, even if they were atrocious.
was that all though? for all the praise it gets that's not very impressive. OOT is another game that gets lauded as being hugely innovative/influential, but I just don't see much of its DNA in anything else.

>>383669123
Nah they were dead in gen 6 except for a few like Ratchet & Jak, but they were not really big sellers like they use to

>>383666157
lazy bait anon, cmon try harder if you want more than just two (you)s

>>383669147
OoT literally invented lock on

REMINDER THAT INNOVATION DOES NOT EQUAL INVENTION YOU RETARDS, SOMETHING DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE FIRST TO BE INNOVATIVE, JUST THE BEST

You can't say something like "oh haha Mario 64 is totally not innovative at all because like, I've heard of Alpha Wave XD"

>>383665887
doom > sf2 > the other two

mario was amazing at its release but the movement, objectives and even levels feel painfully dated now. It's still the groundwork for 3D platformers and a really fun game to play.

ff7 is boring as fuck, now, but it spawned a good bit of rip offs on ps and brought a ton of people back or into jrpgs but its influence isn't really felt anymore

Mario > FF7? I guess but PS and PS2 era it would have been FF7 > Mario

>>383668703
tactics was innovative.

>>383669147
>camera is not very impressive
>a system utilized throughout the entire industry among many different genres is not very impressive

>OOT is another game that gets lauded as being hugely innovative/influential, but I just don't see much of its DNA in anything else.

play a game with lock on? Z-targeting from OoT

>>383669124
The way sound and light were used, level design, and AI.

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>>383665887
What would be the 4 games equivalent to this chart from the 00s? Half life 2 definitely is a steal would halo be in there maybe RE4? Demon's Souls

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>>383669253
even if that was the case that's pretty meager. innovation/influence are such meaningless labels given to games. I see it all the time. RE4 is another.

>>383665887
>innovative and influential
Street Fighter 2 defined fighting games, things we take for granted like multiple playable characters and combos all started here, intentionally or not
>which holds up the best
Doom's still fun

>>383669380
HL2, Metroid prime (first 3D metroidvania, the prime triology is arguably still the only 3D metroidvania series), Virtua fighter for Z-axis fighters, and world of warcraft

>>383669490
why arent there more metroid primes...

>>383669380
WoW, Half Life 2, GTA3, Halo
Honourable mention to DOTA

Souls influence is severely overrated, like there is 1 Souls rip off (Lords of the Fallen) & Nioh is honestly more Diablo than Souls funny enough

>>383669392
an intrinsic mechanic present in a shit ton of genres isn't meager, I'm not sure what kind of mental gymnastics you're pulling here

>>383669392
Maybe because RE4 was massively influential?
it's the reason why the industry almost entirely switched from making traditional survival horror games to making action horror games.

>>383669520
I would assume they're hard as fuck to make, Certain games like the souls series have metroidvania like elements but arn't metroidvanias.

But hey we got MP4 coming and it's going to follow MP1 in terms of design

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>>383665887
Resident Evil 4>DOOM>SM64>FF7>SFII

>>383669392
are you saying RE4 isn't influential? It was so popular it killed the fucking horror genre

>>383669589
Nig Half life 2 is more influential than RE4.

>>383669380
WoW, Halo, GTA III, idk the fourth maybe RE4, Crysis, or Fear for different reasons

HL2 hasn't influenced really anything, I can't think of a single other game that follows a formula it set or anything similar to that, barely anybody knows about it, only people who actively look at video game forums, you people really overstate its impact on the industry.

>>383669537
This is a very good list. How below them is RE4?

>>383669490
>Metroid prime (first 3D metroidvania, the prime triology is arguably still the only 3D metroidvania series)

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Metroidvanias are basically just action-adventure games that happen to be side-scrolling instead of top-down or 3D.

What makes Metroid Prime the "first 3D metroidvania" when Ultima Underworld, System Shock, Strife, Exhumed, etc, exist?

Mario 64 doesn't matter because 3d platformers are mostly dead. ff7 doesn't matter because turn based RPGs are mostly dead. That leaves doom and street fighter. Other 2 dont matter at all.

>>383669679
Everyone wanted to copy HL2's physics & facial animations

But yeah it was just HL1 again really

>>383669537
WoW is just EverQuest with a bigger budget.

>>383669714
>Metroidvanias are basically just action-adventure games that happen to be side-scrolling instead of top-down or 3D.

metroidvanias specifically have interconnected worlds with hidden paths and obstructed ways you can't progress until you find the correct power up AS THEIR MAIN MECHANICS. This differentiates them from games like Zelda which may share some aspects but don't focus on them.

>>383666637
GoldenEye doesn't hold up well at all. Half-Life does.

I wanna get slapped across the face with a trap dick

>>383669743
>ff7 doesn't matter because turn based RPGs are mostly dead
ff7's influence on japanese games is ridiculously noticeable though. shit, any game square enix has made since has been impacted by ff7.

>>383669797
Sounds arbitrary. What constitutes that being a "main mechanic"?

>>383669696
RE4 is a great game, but Gears came out a year later & devs tended to copy that

Maybe QTE's made a comeback thanks to RE4, but they were first used in Shenmue

>>383667267
This anon is smart.

>>383670015
making up a sizable amount of the game. E.G. inter-connectivity is a requirement to progress in super metroid whereas it's optional for games like dark souls. Progress also being blocked non-linearly is also important I failed to mention that

>>383670037
>RE4 is a great game, but Gears came out a year later & devs tended to copy that

But RE4 was the game that inspired Gears of War.


>Maybe QTE's made a comeback thanks to RE4, but they were first used in Shenmue

That would be Dragon's Lair.

>>383669575
So basically RE4 ruined horror games forever?

>>383670149
Ok, so how would that not apply to System Shock, as an example?

>>383665887
Innovative
1. Super Mario 64
2. Street Fighter II
3. Doom
4. Final Fantasy VII

Influential
1. Super Mario 64
2. Doom
3. Final Fantasy VII
4. Street Fighter II

Holding Up Today
1. Doom
2. Final Fantasy VII
3. Super Mario 64
4. Street Fighter II

>>383670309
>DOOM
>holding up today

Explain senpai

>>383670301
it's been a while since I played the first SS but if I recall it doesn't have points that limit you by certain powerups/enhancements. Interconnectivity also wasn't an integral part of the game despite the non-linear design of the maps

>>383670345
It's just fun. Unlike the other games I don't have any problems going back to it after playing more recent entries in the genre.

>>383670397
It does though. Like the hazard suit, super jump, and those fucking ice skates. Each level has extreme interconnectivity much more so than most Metroid games, and the levels themselves are interconnected by the various elevators, much like Prime.

>>383665887
7/10
9/10
5/10
3/10

>>383670468
Ok. I love you

>>383670609
I'm gonna have to replay it then and assess my judgement

>>383665887

SM64 = DOOM >>>>> SF2 >>>>> FF7

>>383665887
>Most innovative
Doom>Mario>Street Fighter>>>>FF7
Doom came up with most of its innovations by itself, and made FPS great. Mario basically troubleshooted 3D, which while impressive, is something that another game would have done if Mario didn't. Street Fighter didn't innovate much. FF7 stole most of what made it great from Chrono Trigger. It's only real innovation was the Materia system, which was only meh.


>Most Influential
Final Fantasy>Super Mario>Doom>>>>>Street Fighter 2
Love it or hate it, the RPG scene was basically re-hashes of FF7 for the next decade, and it remains as one of, if not THE reason an outdated and clunky a genera as the JRPG is still strong. It is also the reason so many nip games are filled with angsty yaoi tension and Gackt (But unfortunately, not The Thing esque villains). Mario heralded the mass exodus to 3D, but it is likely that this would have happened with or without it. Doom forged new ground for the FPS, and while very important for the genera, it had a much more limited impact on gaming as a whole. Street Fighter 2 had a more limited impact than Doom, and had it in an even more isolated genera than Doom.

>Staying Power
Street Fighter 2>Final Fantasy>Doom>>>Super Mario 64. Fighters in general are more resilient to aging, and are more prone to attract people fond of the peculiarities of a given system. Final Fantasy 7 remains good for the part of its plot that wasn't rehashed a billion times over the years, in the intergalactic, planet consuming virus that can shapeshift and do other cool shit. Stolen from Chrono Trigger, yes, but still good. Doom retains some serious good points over the years, but a lot of innovation in FPS has taken place over the years. Super Mario 64 has more direct competition with its sequels, and it's status of pioneering into a third dimension is far less awe-inspiring now..

>>383670816
>FF7 stole most of what made it great from Chrono Trigger
Explain
Also what did Doom innovate in your opinion?

>>383670641
So this...is the power....of Nintendo fan bias....

>>383670298
Actually REmake failing hard on the gamecube is why survival horror died. RE4 being an action game was completely because of that.

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>doom
>innovative

uh are we ignoring this or what

>>383666886
Then what did FF7 influence?
For the longest time only square used ATB. Hell it's still fairly scarce outside of them now.

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>>383666157

>>383669380

Melee, RE4, Half Life 2, Halo 3.

>>383670890
>So this...is the power....of Nintendo fan bias....
More like an idort who knows how underwhelming FF7 was.
Also
>playing Doom on consoles

>>383671021
doom on consoles doesn't make a difference Brodie, there's no aiming

>>383665887
Each of these were equally influential in their respective genres.

>>383671072
>controllers are the only thing that matters in Doom
Oh you kids are a riot.

>>383671153
explain

>>383670870
>>FF7 stole most of what made it great from Chrono Trigger
Jenova is basically Lavos, but less well-written, so a lot of people didn't even realize its role in the story. The amount of people who come away from FF7 legitimately believing Jenova is actually one of the ancients, and was literally Sephiroth's mom is terrifying. The only reason the Sephiroth plotline works at all is because it coasts off the Jenova plotline.
It's basically Chrono Trigger, sans time travel, and if Magus sided with Lavos, and was the final boss.

Doom established most of the peculiarities of the FPS, to my knowledge. What made me rank it so high was the novelty of these innovations. As I mentioned, the innovations made in Super Mario would have been made by another game by necessity. Doom more or less did its innovation against no particular deadline or race to come up with the same shit, but as a self-made founding of a genera as we know it, because they felt they could.

>>383671021
>More like an idort who knows how underwhelming FF7 was.

It was insanely huge at the time, and it eventually lost its god status because it aged worse than SM64 and OoT which are both great, but both are overrated imo

>playing Doom on consoles

Who the fuck mentioned Doom on consoles?

>>383671229
>Doom established most of the peculiarities of the FPS, to my knowledge

see>>383670949

>>383671189
Not him but SNES version is censored as fuck and I think some other versions had enemies missing from the game outright.
Then there's the music

>>383671384
I was talking about consoles in general but if we're specifically talking about the SNES version then sure

doom 64 is fucking great btw

>>383665887
Doom:
>Fun as FUCK
>Simple goal, rewarding goal
>Amazing soundtrack
>Boring scenery until you enter Hell

Super Mario 64:
>Successful 3D transition from its 2D origins
>Still fun, though buggy
>Great music
>Scenery is hit or miss, and textures are pretty dated.

Street Fighter II
>A great sequel to a great game
>Plenty of changes without ruining the core design; you still beat up people from different countries, and it's still fun
>If anyone says the music isn't GOAT, they're objectively wrong
>Graphics hold up very well, despite being sprites

Final Fantasy 7
>Awesome world building. Like, this shit's more developed than a third world country
>Great visuals for its time, though they aren't that fantastic now
>Music is hit or miss, but when it hits, it hits hard as shit
>There's literally nothing wrong with turn-based fights, but they're so boring in this game

As much as I love SM64, the order of best fo worst is Doom = SF2 > FF7 > SM64.

>>383671018
>Melee
?????

>>383671420
>talking about consoles in general
>nintendo bias
Yeah sure

>>383671495
what did he mean by this

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>>383671468
>Awesome world building. Like, this shit's more developed than a third world country

lol? play pic related for actual worldbuilding

>>383671468
>There's literally nothing wrong with turn-based fights,
>ATB
>turn based
I'm convinced that the people who defend FF7 haven't actually played it

>>383665887
The order in your picture is already correct. I don't mean to downplay FF7's quality and influence but the other three did more for their genre than FF7 did for RPGs by far, for better or worse.

>>383671625
why are there so many troglodytes who don't think ATB is turn based?

>>383670309
But SF2 holds up the best anon.

>>383666771
An "innovation" that fell out of favor literally 2 years later when Half Life was released and people realized that rendering cutscenes in-engine created much better immersion. It was about as innovative as voxels in that respect.

>>383667190
>what did Mario 64 innovate?
Who cares? The question is what did it INFLUENCE? And the answer is: the entire fucken genre of 3D platformers to follow. It's another case just like FF7, it doesn't matter if other games did it first or better the one that got popular is the one that influenced all the following games.

>>383671656
How is it turn based if it doesn't follow turns you retard?
The order of action isn't strict meaning it cam be alteted through means like haste and slow and the enemy can attack while you're making your play.

What about that is even remotely similar to the
>my go
>okay yours now
Of the first what, three games?

>>383667268
If you like easy but fun/comfy/stylish JRPGs then yes, you actually are missing out.

>>383669001
Demon's Souls came out before Dark Souls but I'd still say DaS1 is innovative

>>383665887
innovative
64 doom ff7 sf
influential
64 doom sf ff7
holds up
64 doom ff7 sf

>>383671913
How?
Da1 hardly did anything different.

>>383671913
dark souls added and changed a lot more from DeS than doom did to wolfenstein and DeS is a lot more innovative than DaS anyway so that only strengthens my argument

>>383671847
The battle participants still take turns moving, you git. No two actions can occur at any one time, turns are taken. You are thinking of round based combat, not turn based.

>>383671985
Don't worry, I have no fucking clue what that anon is going on about and I'd be the first to cast the stone at ATB.

>>383665887
Innovative:
>SM64
>SF2
>Doom
>FF7
FF7 is an iteration on a formula so its definitely bottom. Doom iterated on Wolfenstein which was a great deal of innovation in taking a dungeon crawl from D&D campaigns and translating it into frenetic action in the first person. But that laurel goes to Wolfenstein, not Doom. SF2 was a refinement of the scrolling brawler, which is a good deal of innovation but Mario takes it. Nintendo blew 3D into the mainstream with SM64 and OoT. SM64 was a how to guide for 3D for years to come.

Influential:
>I can't.
They feel all fairly equal in the long run. They all defined their genres for a solid 10 or so years. I guess SF2 wins out since people still make 2D fighters a little bit?

Holds up:
All of them are still very playable. Square bet wrong on 3D chibi overworld characters and that greatly diminishes the potential charm of its low poly art, Doom is visual vomit, and SM64 isn't exactly pretty so I guess in terms of visuals SF2 wins for me. Capcom did good sprite work back in the day.

>>383671985
Do you even understand the concept of turns?

>>383665887
>innovative
Doom
(Would be street fighter, if pic had SF1)
>influential
Doom
>which holds up the best
M64

>>383665887
I like them all, but in all categories you provided:

SFII>Doom>SM64>FFVII

>>383671304
Ah, then never mind. Imagine I said Wolfenstein in all the places I said Doom in my assessments.

>>383671847
>Turns on a timer where tardy input incurs a turn order penalty still confuses /v/ this much
Sad really. The low board IQ meme is supposed to just be a meme you know.

>>383671625
>I'm convinced that the people who defend FF7 haven't actually played it
Most of them at least poorly remember it.

>>383666291
This

I haven't played Street Fighter 2, but I'd say
>Most Innovativee and Most Influential
Mario 64 > Doom > FF7
>Holds up the best
Mario 64 = Doom > FF7

>>383672317
>he still thinks that ATB is turn based
Dude it's not like after 10 seconds the action switches between you and the enemy, there's literally no turns in the game. Everything is in a state of motion so to speak

>>383672134
Do you? Because I just explained them.

>>383665887
In terms of innovation and holding ul it's a tie betweem SF2 and Doom. But 3d fighters don't really take after SF2 are there shooters that aren't really influenced by Doom? I can just think of like metroid lrime.

>>383666291
Sm64 controls way better. Slightly awkward camera at certain points, but otherwise the camera works well.

Doom fucking sucks because you have to use a keyboard to turn, and doesn't even matter because your cone of fire is so large to handle the shitty controls.

>>383672508
>Everything is in a state of motion
Except that it's not. Each participant has to wait until it's their turn to take an action.

>>383672508
Turn based does not mean alternating turns between two agents on the field, Anon. ATB has agents take their turns in accordance with a clock - no different from timed Chess. The penalty for tardiness is not the complete forfeiture of the agent's turn as it is in Chess, however. Instead you allow the opposing agent to take as many turns as you fail to. It is a soft penalty. Still turn based. Additionally, no two turns can be executed at one time - a hallmark of true real time engagement.

Tl;dr: Ur a tarded

>>383666407
Pretty much this

>>383671985
>No two actions can occur at any one time, turns are taken
You've never played an ATB game have you.

>>383672696
>Doom fucking sucks because you have to use a keyboard to turn
Doom offered mouse support even back them, it was even in the manual

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>>383672872
>>383672696
Never forget it!

>>383666407
I agree but I think Doom and SF2 are equal in terms of innovation as both had precursors, but they heavily improved upon them and both still have die hard fans to this day and are sacred cows in their respective genres.

>>383672954
ya I forgot about Wolfenstein for a moment it's late as fuck, would knock it down a few

>>383672732
>no different from timed Chess
Are you being intentionally retarded?
Timed chess is literally switching off at a set time which as I said before isn't what ATB is.

>>383670949
Wolfenstein is a honorable mention, It doesn't hold up as well as doom but it paved the road for it and other innovative games like Half-life and Quake, the jump between Wolfenstein and Doom was like the jump between generations 1 and 2 in Pokémon

>>383673114
>the jump between Wolfenstein and Doom was like the jump between generations 1 and 2 in Pokémon

damn that's a surprisingly good comparison

>>383671468
>Still fun, though buggy
To be fair the exploits are only there if you intentionally go after them, in a regular play-through you will not find them

>>383673064
Meant to say I also think that they're roughly equally in how well they agwd too. Doom is still one of the most pure fun fps games out there and sf2 is still played competitvely.

>>383673107
I did not say ATB was no different. Try reading the whole paragraph. I know its hard because you see a few words and your head starts screaming for release but power through it. I know you can!

I listed a mechanical similarity and a mechanical difference in two consecutive sentences. I know if you go back and read you can crack the code Anon. I believe in you!

>>383672143
SF1 wasn't influential at all dude. The shit was barely a fighting game, there was other games out before SF1 that basically did the same shit.

>>383672143
>>383671936
>>383672696
Mario 64 is definitely dated. It's less dated than most games of its time, but the camera controls are still iffy. I'd easily say SF2 aged best, with Doom behind it and SM64 behind that.

>>383673254
Doom really depends on the port, like Street Fighter its 2D elements helped with creating an ageless look but the sounds and some of the enviroments still scream "this game is old"

>>383665887

1. Doom
>invented the biggest genre since the platformer

2. Super Mario 64
>showed the industry what you can do with 3D

3. Street Fighter 2
>the first true fighting game

FFVII is definitely influential, but RPGs were already established by the time it came out.

>sm64 influential

when will this retarded meme die, name 10 games that are like it. and if you claim it vaguely inspired 3d games I'll just assume you're mentally retarded

>>383673230
>Anon. ATB has agents take their turns in accordance with a clock - no different from timed Chess
At least read your own fucking post. They are two completely different systems
Timed chess has the player and the opponent move one after the other under a set time limit.
ATB doesn't have that, your opponent can move while you're in the process of conducting your turn.
Chess would be complete chaos if it worked on ATB rules.

>>383665887
USF2 releasing on the switch proves it holds up the most whereas people want an FF7 remake. Imagine rereleasin FF7 as it is on ps4? Fucking kek

>>383673413
I'm assuming we're talking about the PC version of Doom and the arcade version of SF2. It's dumb to talk about inferior versions of the games and then say it aged worse because of that.

>>383673552
It sold the Analog stick as an essential part of gaming moving forward, which nearly every game uses now days.

>>383673552
Every 3D platformer with few exceptions is like it. That's not the entire reason people say its influential though, they say that because it was the first game to have a third person camera that wasn't at fixed points or strapped to the players back.

>>383665887
Doom
SF2
Mario 64
FF7

Mario 64 holds up best.

>>383673552
what's up with this new wave of people being assblasted as anything nintendo being called innovative? Did BotW's high scores really melt so many brains?

>>383666857
and yet it's the most fun of the bunch

>>383673776
Can mario 64 be rereleasd as it is on the switch with little changes and expect ti sell well?

>>383673827
nah I'd say SF2 holds up the best in that category

>>383673776
Why would anyone play 64 when shit like Galaxy exists though?

>>383674010
why would anyone play those games when future games improved on all of them?

Fuck, why even play 7 when even 5/6 are better

>>383673785
Most Nintendo fanboys overrate the fuck out of the shit Nintendo does and did. There was an anon on here that said there aren't a lot of Zelda clone games because OoT is literally one of the most complex games ever made.

I like Nintendo games fine, but they seriously have one of the worst fanbases, and a lot of them seem to think that Nintendo makes bar none the best games ever and everything else is just okay (see every N64 defense thread. Everyone will say "PS1 had more games, but N64 had better games"). Funny how many of them have a persecution complex too.

>>383673721
That's a really dumb thing to say. The nature of 3D movement lends itself to analog sticks.

>>383673738
The camera is like the only innovative thing it did. I can't think of any other older 3D games with a similar camera system, and it did a lot for future 3D games.

That being said I'd argue that SF2 was more innovative. It literally set multiple mechanics up for an entire genre of games (blocking, grabs, and combos all working like they do in fighters released today).

>>383672791
You don't understand the English language, do you? Because everything I said was accurate. No two actions can occur at once. If you input a command at the same time as a monster's ATB fills up you have to wait for that monster to make it's move before your action is taken. The two actions CANNOT OCCUR AT THE SAME TIME, you thick brick.

>>383674449
SF2 is an entire genre vs setting up something for the entire industry with mario 64 with the camera. Also if we're just talking about "setting up" mario 64 also set up the entire 3D platforming genre as well

>>383674073
Well, Fighting games often have unique feels to them that aren't always properly translated to sequels. There's a reason shit like MvC 2 and Melee are as popular as they are depite sequels.

>>383674686
>Well, Fighting games often have unique feels to them that aren't always properly translated to sequels

what

SF3, 4, and 5 have the same general feel

>MvC2

MvC2 died when MvC3 came out and melee is still popular only because Sakurai had a jihad against competitive gaming

I will never understand people who like Street Fighter 2, let alone in 2017. It looks and moves like shit. I don't much care for SF3 either but at least those sprites are rather nicely animated.

>>383674608
The camera was big, but it's just one thing. SF2 has multiple mechanics that are now a staple of all fighting games. 3D platforming is also fairly diverse in comparison to fighting games. Crash really takes nothing from SM64.

>>383674975
>I don't much care for SF3 either but at least those sprites are rather nicely animated.

You gots bad taste.

>>383675037
>all fighting games

not really, 3D fighters vary a lot compared to 2D ones and even some 2D fighters like NRS games do away with a bunch of stuff introduced by SF2

>3D platforming is also fairly diverse in comparison to fighting games

highly disagree, at the core 3D platformers all play off what SM64 brought, even games like psychonauts which goes into action/adventure territory

>crash

crash is a 2.5D platformer made with the Dpad as the only control option taken into consideration

>>383673572
Uh huh. I did say that. And then I said:
>The penalty for tardiness is not the complete forfeiture of the agent's turn as it is in Chess, however.
Together, they are two sentences detailing aspects of ATB. Not its whole. Which makes this statement:
>Timed chess is literally switching off at a set time which as I said before isn't what ATB is.
Fucking retarded. I didn't say ATB is like timed Chess. I said an aspect of ATB operates in part like any fucking timed turn based system.

And now I'm either spoon feeding a retard or falling for bait. Great.

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>>383665887
Here's how I'd rank them according to innovation:
>Super Mario 64
Showed the world how to do 3D motion and camera RIGHT.
>Doom
Showed the potential of shooters though Goldeneye showed the multiplayer potential.
>SF2
Is the bread and butter for most fighting games today thanks to combos and blocking
>FF7
They didn't innovate shit. They were just the most popular. Lunar Silver Star did the JRPG FMV the best first.

Influence: SM64 > FF7 > SF2 > Doom
The most popular shooters ain't doom clones and the most famous doom clones are Halo and Quake. Military shooters are much more popular.

Holding up: SF2 > SM64 > Doom > FF7

>>383675230
>not really, 3D fighters vary a lot compared to 2D ones and even some 2D fighters like NRS games do away with a bunch of stuff introduced by SF2

Low hits, overheads, grabs going through blocks, blocking, combos, all introduced with SF2 with all of them are a staple of other fighting games. Hell, combos alone is mammoth.

>crash is a 2.5D platformer made with the Dpad as the only control option taken into consideration
>it's 2.5D because it's linear

That's a dumb ass thing to say dude, might as well argue that CoD is 2.5D because it's very linear.

Also which unique mechanics outside of camera control did SM64 introduce into other 3D platformers?

>>383675779
are we going to ignore the 2D sections in crash? And linear =/= 2.5, the mario galaxy games are linear but they are 3D because they utlize 3D space. Crash is pseudo 3D because while the game is in 3D it's designed entirely like a 2D games, hence 2.5D

>>383667175

Clearly you haven't played many older JRPGS faggot

>>383675649
Military shooters became popular because of CS, and CS started as Action Quake. That's more of an id software thing though than a purely Doom thing.

>>383675875
>Crash is pseudo 3D because while the game is in 3D it's designed entirely like a 2D games

It's not, the game is full of platforms that you can fall off of to the left or right of them. Like the floating leafs in the river stages, or how the rolling rock stages have platforms that require you to be in the middle of the stage to land on. They use 3D space for platorming fine, you're just trying to argue that the games are 2.5D because they're linear.

>are we going to ignore the 2D sections in crash?

They're like 15% of the total game, why would we make that the focus of them?

Also you didn't answer my question.

>>383676248
>Also which unique mechanics outside of camera control did SM64 introduce into other 3D platformers?

the entire concept of moving in 3D space, it's like blocking you mentioned in SF2

>Innovation

SM64>DOOM>FF>SF2

>Influence

DOOM>SM64>FF>SF2

>Aged best

>SF2>SM64>DOOM>FF

i like none of these games

>>383676308
There was 3D games prior to Mario 64 man. I get that the camera was unique and helped with the movement, but trying to say that SM64 invented movement in a 3D space is really dumb.

>>383676515
oh shit my bad it's 3 am I misred your post, ya it didn't introduce 3D movement but it refined it to be the standard

>>383667190
Have you ever played a 3D game with a joystick?
Well, Super Mario 64 did it first.

>>383673254
>there was other games out before SF1 that basically did the same shit.
>judo on atari
SF1 was literally the creation of fighting games, you have not got a single clue what the fuck you are talking about and have never even played SF1 or any game before it

>>383677003
SF1 was basic as fuck, the only thing it really had was input moves. SF2 added grabs, blocking, combos, and was basically a legit fighting game on top of that. There's a good reason people still play SF2 and SF1 has been irrelevent for two decades.

>>383665887

Street Fighter 2
Super Mario 64
Doom
.
.
.
.
.
milk from the 90s
.
Final Fantasy VII