Was this just a product of its time? Why can't devs put

>>383623985
It's not that good

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>>383623985
I thought it was widely excepted that Zero Mission was better.

>>383624085
explain

>>383624153
accepted*

>>383624153
Game is too short once you learn how to break it and after you break the game you can't really go back to doing a normal run. Also the ambience is ruined by upbeat music. Still a great a game though

>>383623985
what's so great about it?

>>383624153
The only reason anyone thinks the GBA had the best anything is because they were a peasant who had it as their first console

>>383624153
Having those statues pointing out where to go all the time got annoying fast, same with Fusion which had that plus the unskipable dialogue, knowing exactly where to go takes away part of the fun from exploring

>>383623985
Something about profit margins etc etc etc
graphics, cinematic experience.

>>383624354
but that was the original music. not really a valid criticism.

>>383624457
once you know where to go though exploring isn't fun and is pointless.

>>383624194
It plays fine but the bosses are boring, and the music is not memorable. I guess I was just never a fan of Metroid.

>>383623985
SotN was better desu

>>383624413
Well the game does have its flaws but by pure gameplay and mechanics and how it is delivered to the player without any real tutorials is something genuinely unmatched. At no point in the game even playing it for the first time did i ever feel anything was boring to navigate through and encouraged taking the off beaten track roads. Game wasn't easy nor challenging it hit the mark. Only game i still run at least once a year. I could go on and lament on only a few flaws but overall all the pros completely outweighs the flaws.

>>383624354
Hell, the game's too short even if you don't know how to break it. I hadn't played ZM until a few weeks ago and it only took about 3 hours, with a halfway decent item collection % too. SM took a lot longer casually

>>383624496
ok then fair, but lets not forget the true ending that forced a stealth mechanic. Something that should never be in a metroid.

>>383624457
The first one does that, after that the only time they will do that is if you are a babby and recharge at them.

>>383624584
the bosses are designed where you must take damage. all combat is deeply flawed.

>>383624584
>and the music is not memorable.
Cute bait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbcZmaus6g0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj5DWB5a2n8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgHkrY6v-Ko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9toMoL8fW-4

>>383624695
>how it is delivered to the player without any real tutorials is something genuinely unmatched

ah, you're a Nintendo fanboy. carry on.
>>383624817
funny, that's the only part I even remember about ZM, and thought was remotely interesting. could've handled it better but at least they tried something new.

>>383624978
I don't find any of that music good.

>>383624817
I thought the forced stealth section was funny as fuck personally

>>383624978
I love lower brinstar music

>>383623985
IDK, the real question is why don't they have small teams cranking out 8 and 16 bit sequels to classics like this and Mario Bros, Sonic, whatever. It would take like 4 or 5 people, and you could charge $20 per download. If they made one a year people would buy the shit out of them. Collectors would pay a lot for hard copies too. And nothing is stopping them from still making the modern shit too. But as always video game companies hate their money.

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>>383624593
>Bat form eliminates any platforming
>One of the least challenging games of all time
>Game pads itself by rotating the map 180 degrees

>Better

Now had you said Aria of Sorrow I might've agreed.

Is there any sort of ROM hack for Super that gives it the button mappings of Fusion/Zero Mission? Toggling through the list of equipment just isn't as snappy and intuitive as holding R for missiles while standing and for Power Bombs while in Morph Ball. I thought a long time ago there was but I suspect I just saw the name for Super Zero Mission and assumed incorrectly about what it was.

>>383624906
they arent though. you can beat each boss while taking no damage. what the fuck are you even talking about?

>>383624153
Fucking GBAbbies.

>>383625098
on the contrary i think its all about the money. Why pay for 5 extra devs to do this when they can just charge you 10 bucks again and again through VC with each new console release.

>>383625160
Yes, it's called Control Freak and it's perfect.
Ignore any other "GBA-style" hacks.

>>383625085
pretty shit opinion anon, but that's ok, people are allowed to like and dislike different stuff.

>>383625363
i'm curious. What is your fave OST from all the metroid games?

>>383624978
man, you just knew that shit was getting serious in lower norfair

>>383625363
When I think of classic SNES music, Super Metroid is not what comes to mind. It's just so generic sounding.

>>383625098
There are tons of indie developers making 2D Metroidvanias, I haven't seen as aggressively shilled on here as Hollow Knight was for example. Just because the big companies like Nintendo and Konami aren't doing them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I wish there was a hack of Zero Mission that removed the chozo statues and some of the other artificial bullshit in the game (i.e. forced Power Grip and unknown items). It would be perfect then

>>383624978
>HAHA YOUR OPINIONS WHILE SUBJECTIVE ARE OBVIOUSLY A RUSE MEANT TO ENSNARE ME IN TEXTUAL CONFLICT
mc fucking kill yourself kiddo

>>383625491
They mostly suck though. A $20 sequel to Super Metroid thats well made would sell like crazy.

>>383625531
All the chozo statues after the first can be skipped, so I don't see that as a problem.
I would love it if there were a way to skip Power Grip. Seems like it'd be such a simple hack.

>>383625040
not a fanboy. i am a idort. This is just one the games i keep around and play every year, recently just did a run and started thinking about the game more.

>>383625306
Beautiful. Thanks anon.

>>383624085
Good enough to still be discussed to this day.

>>383625481
generic? wtf, how do you even. What even is generic snes music. link a generic snes song. Don't cop out with a shit game nobody played either.

>>383625596
you can avoid the power grip if you get good at wall jumping and bomb jumping

>>383625594
While I wouldn't put any of them on the level as Super Metroid, Aria of Sorrow, Zero Mission, etc. I thought games like Axiom Verge were good enough.

Haven't tried Hollow Knight yet though, seen a lot of people actually calling it better than the other games I mentioned so I'm curious to say the least.

>>383624978
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgHkrY6v-Ko
This right here is legitimately my shit.

>>383625642
it's overrated. so is lttp. but they've been grandfathered in so any criticisms lobbed against them are just construed as trying to rile someone up. it's like trying to criticize citizen kane. even if you make valid points everyone just rolls their eyes and goes "why don't you just get the fuck over it?" when they're the ones that broached the stupid topic in the first place. literally just fuck off.

>>383625908
You can't, there's a slime ball blocking your way. It magically vanishes the moment you get the Power Grip.

>>383624978
>bait
Nothing about how he said it was inherently inflammatory. It was a pretty neutral expression of an opinion. Metroid threads are always gonna suck if people are so overly sensitive that they can't distinguish legitimate (if unpopular) opinions from actual bait and just angrily reply to everything.

>>383625930
I see, care to tell me your fave titles you always come back for more?

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>>383624085
Pretty much.
There are tons of great games in this era but somehow people only talk about this.

>>383626040
Metroid has the worst fanbase of any game series, not sure what you're expecting. We're talking about a fanbase that complains when they don't get games and then turn right around and complain when they do get games.

>>383625976
oh that's right i forgot about that. I always do broken runs, IE my third upgrade is varia suite and kill ridley before kraid while getting the screw attack before i even touch ridley

>>383626196
How do you kill Ridley before Kraid?

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I don't know which one is better game but HK has much more rewarding exploration.

In Metroid if you find a breakable wall you get additional ammo

In HK you get special effect item, secret boss, entire secret zone or a cute caterpillar

I never played the classic Metroid, only a few hours of Prime when /v/ lied to me and said that piece of shit was good. Now I finished Zero, and current playing 2 **remake**, and I was surprised, they are actually excelent games.

Now I have a side in the classic vs prime fight. Primefaggots should just move to callofduty or kill thenselves already.

>>383626165
Bait

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>>383626296
Use this hidden path at the upper right of Norfair.

>>383626296
i made a youtube series of a broken run. i got the powergrip in that one though but if you care enough i can link to it. Just mute the audio its cringy af and was my first attempt at a LP

>>383624153
>forced stealth section just because the devs thought it would be nice to make her suit malfunction out of a landing crash
>the ending makes all your effort to collect upgrades and armor worthless
>point of no return, even worse than Tourian in Super
just no

>>383626320
HK fans are becoming the new undertale fans, annoying faggots that can't shut the fuck up of their overrated game.

>>383626452
>>point of no return, even worse than Tourian in Super
but that's wrong, dumbass

>>383626428
Sure, I've ever only played ZM twice so I never really got into the sequence breaking.

>>383626563
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMnXDhcb6MQ&list=PLU-jaYXuWFVsjQDrOnZc9RLJURkwIqhDs

>>383624906
holy shit you're just really bad
you can take your time with bosses to not get hit. if you spam them like a moron yeah sure, you will get hurt

>>383626651
oops wrong one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV_uQd20SIk&index=2&list=PLU-jaYXuWFVsjQDrOnZc9RLJURkwIqhDs

>>383626496
Oh look, a classic example of contrarian. You also hate Jojo and Bayonetta right?
OP said there are no more good games like Metroid, I provided an example of a recent game I think is of comparable quality. If your autistic mind can't handle that I suggest moving to another thread or /vr/

>>383625091
there were some genuinely funny moments in there. and figuring out how to full-stealth it was actually fun as fuck.

>>383626502
explain why

Tourian had a big clue about "hey, this is going to be your last save before you can't ever go back and 100% the rest of the game"

Zero Mission was just stupid and forced.

>>383626849
Because Zero Mission did not have a point of no return.

>>383626496
Judging by this thread, that'd be Metroid fans

>>383625481
Literally, F-Zero is "generic SNES music".
It uses all the vamps, genre cues, tempos, and sound fonts that are synonymous with the SNES soundchip and its music library.

>>383625913
Hollow Knight is great. It almost has Super Metroid levels of polish, great visuals, great music, great combat, and it's very long and non-linear

>>383625404
Not him but my favorite Metroid Song has and will always be this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudFV61zsaw

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>>383623985
How have you not played pic related yet?

>>383623985
Games like that were made by like 10-20 people tops who had multiple years of previous experience working in the industry. Sprite work won't net you top dollar anymore so big developers will never go into that territory again. The best you will get is maybe 1 or 2 people per game who want to try to emulate that feeling of the 16 bit generation. But, you won't see a large team ever work on a game with sprite graphics because it is a niche market.

>>383627253
That game was amateurish and unpolished.

>>383627316
Great words that don't mean anything

>>383627316
>unpolished
Almost like something stopped the devs...

>>383627316
agree, actually. even the art assets didn't look like they belong together.

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>>383626764
No, love both of those, stop projecting, your game is overrated shit, stop acting like it's second coming of jesus in game form.

>>383625098
Worked for Megaman.

>>383623985
>was this a product of it's time?
Let's not get too carried away
>Why can't devs put this much effort into quality anymore?
Who's paying you?

>>383627662
Making games for the lowest commen denominator for mass appeal to get more money. You can pay me anything but if i have higher ups breathing down my throat there isn't much i can do but fun little easter eggs into games.

>>383627508
>stop acting like it's second coming of jesus in game form.
Jesus Christ I'm not. I said the exploration is rewarding.
Do you hate every new game that gets a lot of threads just after release?
Do you know why every other similar boards are mostly discussing recent things and people don't get mad that a new topic was discussed for a month more than a 20 years old one?
Because there isn't so much fucking newfags like you who haven't already talked about everything there is to talk about in three daily thread everyday for years.
If all you wanna talk about in these thread is Metroid, Aria of Sorrow and Sotn, fuck of to browsing fireden since you're too stupid for /vr/

>>383623985
3D Metroid > 2D Metroid

>>383628452
They are both good.

>>383624978
only 2/4 of that music is good
Ridley and Norfair

>>383624354
>and after you break the game you can't really go back to doing a normal run
I did a week ago. Just ignore the hovering roach, mang.

>>383624695
>by pure gameplay and mechanics and how it is delivered to the player without any real tutorials is something genuinely unmatched.
I thought we were talking about Super Metroid not REmake.

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>>383628440
>new games
The video game and movie market is flooded with remasters remakes and sequels.

>>383629234
So it's even more ok to discuss HK?

>>383629147
i am physically incapable. getting the screw attack so early before any boss is just an amazing feeling.

>>383624153

Too much shinespark. As in about a third, maybe half of all upgrades require using that ability

>>383629497
I can only remember about maybe 12 upgrades needing to shinespark, everything else can be obtained by being clever with the mechanics

>>383627410
>even the art assets didn't look like they belong together.
AM2R is supposed to be based on the Zero Mission remake and much more yet the Metroids in it doesnt look all comic book style like in Zero Mission or Fusion.

really thought it's out of place despite the detail.

>>383629339
Why do you want to talk about Hong Kong?

>>383626320
Imo hk is the best metroidvania overall. Possibly some castlevanias are on par with it.

>>383629676
Because it's overrated. I literally felt asleep watching Peter Jackson version and I heard the new one is even worse

>>383629785
Pls dont falseflag, thanks

>>383629895
Although the power ups may have been less to mix and match, the game has more bosses and exploration overall.
I also like the art style. The basic swordirections all game is the only negative but you get minor addons.

I still like it the most. Super metroid is a second and axiom verge is up there too, though maybe because I liked the plot idea even if I didn't get the ending I wanted.

>>383629497
the shinespark is the best part of metroid. other metroidvanias will always be inferior because they can't have it

>>383624153
(you)

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>>383630083
>other metroidvanias will always be inferior
*blocks your path*

I bet 95% of the posters in thos thread cant even mockball or cwj

>>383630343
the only use that stuff has is interesting shortcuts to upgrades and speed running. Please don't tell me you a speed run faggot

>>383623985

>Why can't devs put this much effort into quality anymore?

Other devs aren't Deer Force.

>>383630078
Well okay then, I agree with you. It's just that you can't praise a game until it's at least 3 years old according to new /v/ policy.

Also I don't understand really understand the boner for Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia. They're really good games but the rpg elements and boring level design for me makes them much worse than other top Metroidvanias

I legitimately enjoyed axiom verge

>>383624906
>bosses are designed where you must take damage
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=918Rr5YrkCQ

>>383624978
I agree with him. SM OST is very good but not really memorable like AM2R or the Prime games. It's more atmospheric and ambient.

>>383623985
go play am2r and hollow knight

>>383630924
What exactly triggers the end to the first Ridley fight?

its more efficient to put less effort into things and produce shittier products op

>>383630945
Different anon here;
If you were to ask me to call to mind any single piece of music from any Metroid game, the first thing that would come to mind for me is SM's Lower Brinstar theme. 23 years later and that particular piece of music sticks out to me more than any other theme in the entire series.

>>383631143
You either deal or take a specific amount of damage. It's easier/faster to just jump into Ridley a bunch and force the fight to end that way.

>>383624153
No

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>>383631257
>When the piano kicks in

>>383624085
Get out

>>383624153
>Holding shoulder to shoot missiles.

For that alone, it isn't even better than original Metroid 2.

>>383631343
There's a 10 hour mix of it on youtube that I occasionally play when I'm in bed, going to sleep.

>>383631505
I'd rather hold the shoulder than hit Select and have to cycle through four other equipments just to get back to my beam with everything else turned off.

>>383631552
What are your thoughts on the Echoes arrangement of it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA0svtSeG0I

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>>383631827
Absolutely top-tier stuff, favourite tune in the game along with the Temple Grounds, Sanctuary Fortress and Agon Wastes themes.

>>383631505
But it's more convenient than hitting select a bunch of times, what is wrong with you?

>>383632005
>Agon Waste
Isn't that one literally silence with a few ambient noises?

This is my favorite Echoes tunes with Torvus in second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLOkc9MwFHs

>>383624354
>Also the ambience is ruined by upbeat music.

You deserved to get throatfucked with brinstar green you fucking whore.

>>383624354
>>383632281
Oh fuck sorry anon, thought you were talking about super metroid

>>383632234
It's definitely on the ambient side of things, but I feel that it matched the general atmosphere of Echoes extremely well. The desolate feeling of Agon Wastes really framed the game in a specific way for me that made me like it a hell of a lot more than I would have if say, Torvus Bog was your first stop. Not that I dislike Echoes in any measure, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_VJH8vHzQc

>>383625670
So is Tetris.

>>383624354
The game is extremely short even if you don't break it. I didn't even know you could break it and my first run took 2 hours.

I remember I played this thing first when I was 10 years old and even the dumb 10 years old me was baffled at how incredibly short and unfulfilling this game felt when compared to fusion

>>383625085
>he doesn't like lower brinstar

>>383626936
But it did.

Literally after Mother Brain fight to the (actual) credits roll

>>383632781
You can still return to old areas after you get the fully powered suit.

>>383632556
I think Phazon Mines captured the sense of desolation better and set the tone for the stage perfectly, that first time doing the Phazon Mine gauntlet is something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymv7GQR6jqc

>>383632640
who the fuck talks about tetris outside arcades?

>>383633165
Me

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>>383623985
>Was this just a product of its time?
yes

>>383632781
The only point of no return is the Meta Ridley fight starting the countdown.

>>383632781
Power Bomb the glass bridge and check out the area below.

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>>383633034
>mfw the first time I entered the phazon mines and shit got serious

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>>383633570
Are you messing with me? They pulled that shit again?

>>383633479
Who the hell thought Poochy was a good idea? An obvious blight on an otherwise 10/10 games.

>>383633661
https://youtu.be/4Ns8TOXeYFU?t=52m35s

>>383633661
>>383634181
Jump to 52:35

>>383633352
to whom though. like who is legit going to talk about tetris

>>383628440
>Do you hate every new game that gets a lot of threads just after release?
I do.
I know it's not a good thing, but I can't help it.

>>383624153
>pretty much the worst 2D Metroid
>better than Super
If you brought up Fusion I'd agree with you.

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First time Super Metroid player here. I keep getting lost and the game is 100% no fucking fun allowed.

Just got the Gravity Suit and I'm so hopelessly lost. Been bombing fuck everywhere to find a way into the large areas I haven't explored in Maridia but no fucking luck. I just hate this game.

>>383634674
Zero Mission is really well designed. It's just short. The worst is easily Return of Samus.

>>383634857
metroidvanias are not for you than.

>>383634928
I fucking love Metroidvanias. I've played all the Castlevania ones, Guacamelee was good fun, and a whole bunch of others out there that I can't put names to at the moment.

Super Metroid is just sucking hard.

>>383634857
Super Metroid is just hyped up and not that good honestly. Zero Mission is best Metroid.

>>383635017
>Super Metroid
>hard

>>383634874
>It's just short.
Isn't this an inherent characteristic of the genre? They're built around being highly replayable.

Games cost a lot more money to develop nowadays so every single game needs to be created as if it were being played by someone who has never played a video game before. Why do you think every single person who ever gets stuck in a video game now says "THIS GAME IS LIKE DARK SOULS, WOW!"? I
They think the series invented difficulty.

>>383634857
There's a few hidden paths to look out for that you don't even need to bomb. They look like solid walls but you can just walk through them.

If you having trouble finding the Maridia pirate base, bomb the floor of a certain metal-walled room.

>>383635176
You can't read.

>>383634674
What the fuck are you talking about, Fusion was the worst Metroid game.

>>383635278
>Super Metroid is just sucking hard.
>hard

>>383634857
Congrats you got memed. Stop wasting your time with it.

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>>383635309
>Best boss fights
>Worst Metroid
Nope, it and Echoes are the only Metroid games where death is a remote possibility. That's worth something.

>>383635269
>Games cost a lot more money to develop nowadays
Only because of superfluous garbage like AAA voice acting, mocap and targeted marketing campaigns. Strip away the unnecessary bullshit and vidya costs much less to develop for.

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>>383634857
Also that glass tube you have to bomb in Super Metroid, how was anyone meant to figure that out?

I've seen various excuses like "There's a smashed pipe in another part of the game, as a hint", but that's only accessible AFTER you bomb that pipe. You never commit environmental destruction like that anywhere else in the game. Zero hints towards it. You just have to run about like a retard and bomb everything to discover it. The only way I knew about it was other peoples complaints surrounding it.

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>the last STALKER game is over 7 years old

>>383635408
Is english not your first language? "Hard" can also be an adjective for emphasis.

>>383635473
Zero Mission and Supers boss fights were really disappointing after Fusion.

>>383635694
>Still calling Super Metroid hard
>not knowing basic sentence structure

>>383635584
>but that's only accessible AFTER you bomb that pipe
Nope. If you go through the wrecked ship a.k.a the intended route, you see the smashed pipe first.

>>383630290
This. Griffon Wing + Black Panther Soul is your shinespark.

>>383627080
True, it's a metroidvania reivented and kept in touch with modern times.

>>383635584
You aren't supposed to bomb that pipe until after you've seen the smashed pipe just a couple of screens before it. If dumbass 11-year old pre-internet access me could figure it out no one has any excuse other than being a total retard.

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>>383635778
Yup.

>>383634857
Go grab the xray scope if you're having so much trouble.

>>383635584
This is the worst meme of all time.

You can access an already destroyed tube once you beat Phantoon and use the Gravity Suit to go into Maridia from the right exit of the Wrecked Ship. You descend straight down into the Spring Ball area (because you can't go elsewhere) and this spits you back out to the tube you need to bomb. At this point in the game you will have already had to have figured out how to even get the Gravity Suit (bombing a single lone brick with no indication at all) which is way "harder".

Not to mention the pipe gets its own map area when you walk through it - I mean, seriously. How much bigger of a hint can you even get? HEY LOOK THIS ONE ROOM IS PART OF A DIFFERENT MAP, I WONDER IF YOU CAN FUCKING DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT HERE.

Absolutely no one had a problem with this that played it back in 1993.

>>383635807
He's not saying it's hard, he's saying it sucks -hard-.
>this band rocks hard
>this game sucks hard
>he's driving his car hard

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>>383636581
How do you drive a car hard? Sounds mildly painful.

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>>383635584
The tube meme is now "HOW WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO JUMP IN THE PAINTINGS" levels of retarded.

>>383635242
being short doesnt fucking mean being highly replayable

>>383636705
It is. For your car.

Mashing your gas to take off, accelerating around corners, slamming on your brakes, and so on is driving a car hard. It puts more stress on the mechanical parts and wears them out quicker. It's usually a form of angry driving, but my sister is retarded so she drives like this all the time.

>>383624354
Not a ton they could really do to make it longer.
The original Metroid is ultimately a tiny nes game that used a ton of copy pasted rooms and level design to pad out the length and when they boil the game down to only be unique stuff it doesn't leave much left.
They already added several bosses and that whole stealth area at the end, if they kept adding more it wouldn't be much of a remake anymore.

>>383634312
I see /v/ talk about Tetris all the time.
Why just last week I saw a conversation about how fucking boring it was.

>>383637278
>accelerating around corners

Wait, hold up. Now I can't be doing that much damage if I start from a full stop and keep it under 20MPH, right.

Probably was a product of it's time. There is always this process of experimentation and discovery, that turns into refinement and excellence. I have long held that the reason the 4th and 5th generation of consoles hold the greatest gaming of all time. The 4th like the SNES, because it came out as game designers had mastered their craft. The 5th, like the PlayStation, because it was an absolutely massive paradigm shift in terms of design tools.

Notice many of the greatest games to be made on the SNES, were better versions of games that had come out on the NES. Often with a strange, experimental game in between them. Super Metroid was a fully fleshed out, better version of Metroid. Link to the Past was higher level Legend of Zelda. Super Mario World was Super Mario 3, but grander. You see the pattern. It was like developers were getting to make the games that they originally envisioned. They had a working idea, and now they had more space to do it.

It's outside the scope of the post to talk about the 5th gen, but it's pretty clear what 3d gaming brought to the table and why this would be the height of experimentation. We have not had another development in gaming that has caused as drastic a difference in tools available to developers as moving from strictly 2d gaming to real 3d. Ever since then, the next big change was online play becoming ubiquitous. And just progressively better graphical fidelity. While a digression, it's easy to see why games seem to suck now. We are in an age of refinement, but no one wants to refine. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again, but better looking.

>>383638259
That sounds reasonable. I'm talking about things like going 50 or faster down the road without slowing down and immediately turning so hard your passengers almost get whiplash.

>>383628452
ya, the only 2D metroid that can stand to the prime trilogy (even 3) is super