Why all the confusion over "dark souls" being a genre?

>>383575159
Ok.

>>383575159
No they're not, they encompass Metroidvanias but they add more to the formula:
They're typically punishing, have an emphasis on difficult bosses, have an emphasis on melee, they focus combat around mitigating damage through dodging/blocking/parrying instead of running non-stop offense, usually have a stamina resource system, etc.

>>383575408
this. its a jrpg, now fuck off

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>>383575159
why do so many people have trouble with that part? just run up and whack them

Only DaS1 is like that.

faggots who have never played Metroidvania before play Dark Souls as their first metroidvania

>>383575408

Funny, because you just described metroidvanias. Nice try, though

>>383575159
dear god v Dark Souls is an action rpg.

>>383575159
Because it's popular and just different enough for people to think it's a new genre.
Just like Madoka

>>383575498
>Dark Souls plays like Dragon Quest and Persona
this is how retarded you sound

>>383575595

so are metroidvanias, though. Metroidvania is a subset of action rpg, and that's where the souls series fits.

only Dark Souls 1 and 2 have metroidvania elements, the other souls games do not at all.

>>383575159
Dark Souls is Zelda + stamina management

>>383575159
Dark Souls is an action RPG. Whoever the fucking retard was who started calling games "soulslike" needs to die.

>>383575672
metroid is not an rpg, the castlevania games that replicated symphony of the night were action rpgs

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dark souls is a metroidvania
arkham asylum is a metroidvania
resident evil 1 is a metroidvania

>>383575712
Dark souls is Zelda + Symphony of the night + stamina management

>>383575159
metroidvania is a style of level design

>>383575773
Yeah, and?

>>383575715
this guy gets it

>>383575794
you're mom's a style of level design

>>383575408
>They're typically punishing

You mean lots of forced backtracking if you die, and the fear of tedium if you die convinces you not to die.

>>383575773
ur mom is a metroidvania

>>383575773

i'd say resident evil isn't, but you're right on the first two. Your point?

>>383575651
>have over 800 hours on dark souls 1 and 2

literally, yes.

its not as hard as everyone makes it seem to be, its a jrpg where you can die as easily as your enemies, and you have stamina management along with a vague storyline.

is this too complicated for you to understand, retard?

>>383575773
Resident Evil 1 isn't, it's level design is locked behind solving puzzles in other places which is not the same thing.

>>383575730

metroid is not a metroidvania. hth.

>>383575408
>They're typically punishing

You get infinite continues. They're less punishing than 99% of games made before 1995

>>383575949
Dark Souls is not a JRPG you dumb faggot
It's more similar to Gothic and The Witcher than Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger

>>383575986
>It's a RPG
>Made in Japan
So it's a JRPG

>>383575730

metroid is not a metroidvania
castlevania is not a metroidvania

games made using a blending of their game mechanics are metroidvanias. Like dark souls.

>>383575993
its an rpg from japan

>>383575993
>an rpg made by Japanese developers

yes, it IS a jrpj you fucking retard. do you need me to spell out the fucking acronym for you?

>>383576025
the castlevania part doesn't refer to the originals, but to Symphony of the Night, which is in fact a metroidvania and spawned the term as it's a mix between metroid and castlevania

>>383576053

>Japanese Role Playing Japanese

>>383576024
>>383576053
>Undertale is an RPG blatantly ripping off Earthbound, a JRPG, but it was made in the West
>therefore it's a WRPG and belongs in the same category as Fallout 2

>>383575949
literally, no.
Persona's and Dragon Quest's combat systems are so fucking different from the Souls games you'd have to know nothing of any of them to think they play the same or belong in the same genre. This idea that JRPG refers to a country of origin and not a specific subgenre of RPG is outdated and retarded.

>>383576024
>>383576053
I guess Mother 4 is a WRPG now

>/v/ thinks Dark Souls is a JRPG
>literally thinks it's the same genre as Grandia or Final Fantasy VI

morons. The J and the W refer to the STYLE, not the point of origin.

>>383576120
JRPG or WRPG don't say anything about how a game is, just if it's western or japanese.
Also Fallout 2 is a CRPG
>>383576192
Yes

>>383576024

Witcher III confirmed for being a PRPG

>>383576146
Why would the term "Japanese" refer to a genre???

It refers to the region, jfc

>>383575159
Metroidvanias implies that you get upgrades, dark souls gives you stuff like keys for further the exploration
Dark souls is more about being a weak ass normal guy carefully fighting monsters and slowly becoming a fierce warrior through personal skills and equipment

>>383576239
I prefer BRPGs (Bethesda Role Playing Games) since the game was developed in Bethesda, Maryland

my dick is a metroidvania, explore it fucbois

>>383575502
it's old meme when people thought using any shield was a good idea
now after 3 games nobody have problem with knight snipers

It's an action game. Like Darksiders or 3D Castlevania.

>>383576313
>not playing MRPGs (Montreal role playing games)

what disqualifies, say...Dark Souls 2 from being a metroidvania?

>>383576391
shallow platforming sections

>>383576391
Nothing

>>383576391
because the world is not interconnected

>>383576391
Nothing, but using Metroidvania to describe a game is no less dumber than calling something a Souls-game. Metroidvania was coined to differentiate the new type of Castlevania to the classic ones. To apply on games outside of the series just seems dumb to me. Just call it a Metroid-like then.

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>>383576570
>not enabling no clip and jumping into the lava of Iron Keep and falling to Earthen Peak

>>383576256
Originally, sure, but that's because JRPGs were mechanically different from the other RPGs of the time. It's the only time a game's country of origin is brought up when describing its genre and that's purely because, when the term was invented, it signified a notable difference in how the game was played, namely a focus on stats and telling a specific story that focuses on the character you're given more than the PC you create. If there weren't any mechanical differences, they would have just been called RPGs, no J necessary. But until you fucks come up with a better term to describe games like FF and DQ, we're stuck with idiots who can't understand anything past the word "Japanese".

>>383576610

devs happily call their own games metroidvanias. Why would I trust you to explain their games over them?

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>>383576221
>JRPG or WRPG don't say anything about how a game is, just if it's western or japanese.
>If you make chinese food in America then it's american food
>inb4 FOOD ANALOGY
prove me wrong

Stupid niggers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroidvania

>" Dark Souls is a third-person action role-playing game loosely considered a Metroidvania featuring "soft locks" – obstacles in the form of boss characters that are difficult but not impossible to defeat when the player-character is starting out, and become much easier to defeat with increased experience and abilities.[11]"

>>383576727
So RWBY is an anime now?

>>383576670
To me this is not about being right or wrong, but having a clear language to describe games. Devs are no different from other people and they also want to use terms that market well. I just think it's sad that we went from simple labels like action, platformer, puzzle, racing to instead use references to other games in weird letter combinations.

>>383576830
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RWBY
>RWBY is an American anime-style web series and media franchise created by Monty Oum for Rooster Teeth.
Yes

>>383576976
>American anime-style
So it's not an anime, just in the style of an anime.
The same exact thing counts with games, Dark Souls is a JRPG with a western style to it.

>>383575590
Last Metroid and Castlevania I played didn't have stamina, didn't have a parry, didn't have a block, and weren't at all punishing.
>>383575862
>wahhhhhh!
Sure, that, and if you flub a dodge you get fucked in the ass.
>>383575986
Good thing it isn't 1995 gramps. Also, continues and a game being punishing aren't parallels... Just because a game gays you with continues doesn't mean a game with infinite continues can't be extremely punishing.

>>383576895

Well, as the medium grew, it was bound to pick up more genres and subgenres. I'm quite happy, really. At least a term like "metroidvania" speaks of a starting point in gaming history. Better than using a long list of other genres to try and describe it, imo

>>383577029
>JRPG with a western style to it
too vague and is a meaningless description
I would interpret this as Earthbound because it has clearly defined JRPG game play with an small town American aesthetic (burger joints, trigger happy police officers, 90s yo-yo craze, religious nutjobs)

>>383577064
>to be a metroidvania it has to be EXACTLY like metroid and castlevania
Castlevania had a levelup system and magic moves you could cast with fighting game inputs.
Most metroidvanias don't have that so I guess they aren't metroidvanias anymore huh.

>>383577159
>tfw no Street Fighter RPG

>>383577029
If anime and JRPG describe the country of origin instead of the style, why do the terms exist and why do people use them to describe things? Putting Dark Souls in the same genre as FF is like putting the Huffington Post and /v/ in the same group because they're both websites. It's so vague and pointless it shouldn't even be said.

>>383575502
more of these?

>>383577064

>Castlevania I played didn't have stamina, didn't have a parry, didn't have a block, and weren't at all punishing.

Curse of Darkness

jej

Souls series is supposed to be a dungeon crawler with lite hack and slash. Later games forgot this and suffer for it.

>>383577159
Stamina is pretty much a core gameplay mechanic. It's the difference between running around, obliterating anything in sight and combat having a call-and-response flow to it.

>>383577245
Anime literally just means animation but japanese.
Kemono Friends is an anime besides having no traditional 2d animation that anime is known for.
They aren't genres to define what the product is, just to say it's an RPG made in either japan or the west.

>>383575159
>Metroidvania is literally the same definition structure as 'Soulslike' and that's the only thing they have in common.
>"They're metroidvanias"

Ok I'm gonna fall for the bait:

Stupid cunt never post again.

>>383577475
Metroidvania just refers to how a game is structured, not how it plays.
La-Mulana doesn't play anything like Rabi-Ribi but they both are metroidvanias

>>383577292
Curse of Darkness isn't punishing and the stam system is a joke compared to a souls game, not even him senpai..

>>383575159
Metroidvanias string together multiple (usually separated) areas to form a cohesive world with a player character with a high range of movement. There's the obvious difference in camera viewpoint with Dark Souls shifting from 2D to 3D with a behind-the-character perspective, but Dark Souls goes further than that: Dark Souls not only presents an aesthetic and philosophy, but it weaves it very deliberately into every facet of not just the world, but the game itself. Everything down to the fonts, the icons, the minor body language in side characters is perfectly and deliberately attuned to heighten the conveyance of the game world. That's where the dissonance comes from; Metroidvanias you could just drop in any old sprite of a floating skull or jellyfish and it wouldn't make much difference. Dark Souls lives and breaths a very specific context, and that context is what makes it Dark Souls.

>>383577529

>I don't like the things you mentioned
>they don't exist

>>383577542
So that's just how a franchise defines itself, not what genre it is.

>>383575712
How is dark souls anything like zelda?
There are no dungeons, no items that expand your moveset or give you extra abilities you need to solve puzzles, defeat certain enemies or progress further. There are also no real puzzles to speak of

>>383577370
>Kemono Friends is an anime besides having no traditional 2d animation that anime is known for.
Sure has that classic anime style, though. Every single person on the planet with a passing understanding of the word anime would call Kemono Friends an anime regardless of whether or not they knew it was from Japan.
But more important is if anime and JRPG only told people it was from Japan, what the fuck is the point in saying it? Just call it a cartoon or an RPG. The only justifiable reason is that it describes the style and mechanics of what you're talking about (which is how people use it), making it a genre.

>>383577542
>Everything down to the fonts, the icons, the minor body language in side characters is perfectly and deliberately attuned to heighten the conveyance of the game world.

delusion or pasta?

>>383577697
puzzles are annoying, you can dual wield, different weapons have different movesets, leveling system more sophisticated, online pvp, we can talk all day on how dark souls is superior to Zelda in every way

>>383577734
>what the fuck is the point in saying it?
This is exactly why people refer those things with other genre.
I don't tell someone looking for an anime that "he should watch madoka because it's an anime", I tell him the genres of that particular anime instead.
It's the same shit with JRPG and WRPG, they don't tell shit about what the game itself actually is and you have to mention other genres for that to make sense. I am just saying that's the whole point of those two genre names.

>>383577697
The combat

it's literally ocarina of time with stamina

>>383577849
Thats not the point. I was asking how dark souls is comparable to zelda, which in my opinion it isnt

>>383576025
>metroid is not a metroidvania
>castlevania is not a metroidvania
>metroid vania

I don't have a proper reaction pic on phone, but this term should fucking burn to hell as people will call anything fucking metroidvania now.

>>383577927

>dogs are not catdogs
>cats are not catdogs
>sew the two together, however...

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This seems like an appropriate thread to ask a quesion

how does someone get into the dark souls games? i'm on PC

>>383577895
Theres lock on and you have medieval weapons. Combat mechanics themselves are entirely different. Besides, combat is only a part of what makes a zelda game.

Going by that logic, sword of mana is literally a link to the past with stamina management

>>383578023
You buy/pirate it and then play

>>383578023
Play DS1 with DSfix and then DS3

>>383577969
perfect anon

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>people arguing over what genre a game is

>>383577885
>I tell him the genres of that particular anime instead.
Even then, what you're describing could mean something completely different depending on if it's anime or not. Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends is a slice of life show, but it's completely different from shows like Lucky Star in structure and visual style. The subsubgenres help define shows even further, but whether or not it's anime or JRPG also create different meanings to those.

>>383578023
press button
play game
???
profit

>>383575159
It's a 3D Final Fantasy with the plot being the Olympic Torch run.

>>383577969
You get Shadman?

>>383578095
>>383578214
i'm saying which game should i start from?

>>383575408
>They're typically punishing, have an emphasis on difficult bosses...
Why do people still think this? Is Dark Souls the only slightly challenging game you've ever played?

>>383578358
1st then 3rd. Don't play 2.

>>383578358

Dark Souls

>>383578376
It is for a lot of normies

>>383578358

1, then 2, then 3.

Ignore the "i hate 2 crybabies"

>>383578456
>>383578410
now fight, both of you

>>383578358
1 into 3. If you dont care that much just play 3 straight away. If you think that you care a lot play 2 too.

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Dark souls metroidvania
From soft invented tps games with magic, swords and boss fights.
You literlly can't prove me wrong. If you don't agree fuck off back to
>>>/r/eddit
>>>/n/eofag

>>383578164

came here to post this more or less

>>383578358
I played all of them this year for the first time in this order, including all DLC:

DS1 Prepare to die edition
DS2 Scholar of the first sin
DS3

I actually like all of them and you will definitely miss out if you skip SOTFS. Especially the DLC areas that are part of this edition are great.

>>383579468
>Especially the DLC areas that are part of this edition are great.
I'd recommend skipping out on Frozen Outskirts. Eleum Loyce is amazing, but there's nothing good or fun about FO. The same's true for most of the multiplayer focused parts of the DLC, actually.

>>383579908
This is the guy you replied to. I agree, I solo'd all bosses including all optional ones but the Lud & Zallen fight is a bitch and getting to them even worse. Almost made me break my rules by summoning but I got lucky in the end.

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>>383576650
i did not realize this. i forgot you fight that poison bitch at the top of the windmill.

what the fuck

>castlevania games don't have the same level of challenge as Souls games

>Order of Ecclesia literally gives you unique items for running bosses without taking damage and has a level 1 playthrough mode

>>383577542
You clearly haven't played any Metroid lol

>>383575159
It's hard so that makes it a genre according to retards.

>there are people so young that they dont know what a jrpg is and think its any rpg from japan

>>383582106
>Dark Souls is a different genre to Nioh

>>383578031
No, combat mechanics themselves aren't entirely different. The other anon is right, it's literally OOT's combat.

There's lock on and you fight with medieval weapons, but you can also block with your shield, you roll or sidestep (a la bloodborne) to evade attacks, you even have the jump attack in dark souls

>/v/
>so contrarian, they say Kosm

>>383585517
>Orphan of Kos
>not Orphan of Kosm
I don't understand why they even try at this point, there's clearly one right answer.

>>383575159
Your mother is a metroidvania. Dark Souls is an action/rpg. Action/rpg is an action/adventure (a Zelda game) with growing stats, i.e. where you can make the game easier by grinding. For example, SotN is a 2d aciton/rpg, Ocarina of Time is a 3d action/adventure. Souls games are 3d action/rpgs.

>>383585517

>kosbabbies

neck yourself

ITT genre semantics is retarded

>>383575159
not really, both metroid and symphony of the nights main features was the large number of movement options avaliable; morph ball, bat form flight, space jump which meant that backtracking was more engaging than just opening a locked door. dark souls has none of this, it's more like the rpg's from the dos-box era; hard but with infinite lives, passive world building and so on, people tend to forget metroid was inspired by the old rpgs of the time