This image is funny, there's a lot of truth to it. However,

>>383534050
Here's a (You), next time go poo poo in the toilet, not here.

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>>383534050

>>383534209
Same to you. Begone, shitposter.

>>383534361
Hm.

>>383534361
good lad

>>383534361
what are the black boxes supposed to be?

>>383534674
Walls

>>383534674
Areas locked by DLC.

>>383534361
There's no loss there

>>383534050
>skyrim.png

Or

>newvegas.png

>>383534361
so you hate banjo kazooie?

>>383534361
>The city levels in Doom2 are best

>>383534942
Banjo Kazooie is the bottom left.

Banjo Tooie is the bottom right.

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>>383534361

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>>383534050
>people who like exploration don't explore as much as people who don't

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Mario 64 is the ideal structure for a game. The actual levels don't necessarily have to be open world, but the hub world should be an open yet contained area. It should also be a safe place but doesn't always have to be.

>>383534674
Obstacles of any sort

>>383535157
Mario 64 is bottom left.
Both Banjos are bottom right.

>>383535706
Autistic OCD completionists usually dislike their insanity that makes the game so much longer and uninteresting.

>>383534050
Rather than saying all those words, you could have simply said "people who think the level design of this maze is shit". A well designed game with exploration would have an optimal path to collect everything that has minimal backtracking. This optimal path may not necessarily be the most obvious path.

>>383534050
I'm not against exploration, but a lot of games that tout "exploration" are terrible at actually incentivizing you to explore. You basically explore for the sake of exploring. The unique and interesting locales are few and far between, and the rewards are shit.

>>383535997
The only difference between Mario 64 and BK is that BK doesn't kick you out of the level every time you get the "star"

In BT, everything is miles apart and you have to run for full minutes to get to anything interesting.

>>383536156
Nah, the key is placing items intelligently: in the Goldilocks zone between obvious and obscure. Sometimes even better than hiding them is showing them: revealing them in the distance, ahead of time, in ways that suggest something about how to get them.

That stuff supersedes woes about backtracking.

>>383537256
The OP image is mainly refering to the placement of the items and what path the player must take to reach them. Obviously making things obvious/obscure is important but it's not really what the OP image is talking about.

>>383534050
All you have to do to fix this is avoid doing two things

1) Don't dead end the player. There's something useful at the end of every path.

2) Don't load most of the extra content at the end of the game. Fucking fusion and zero mission. Distribute it throughout.

>>383536335
In Mario 64, the emphasis is still on platforming. The vast majority of stars are basic point-to-point platforming challenges, with only a relatively small portion of them being "collectathons". Both Banjo games don't really focus on platforming, they just get you to walk around and interact with characters/objects to get a jiggy.

>>383535997
>Both Banjos are bottom right.

Um what. Kazooie didn't have fuck huge levels. In fact it's about the same as mario 64, except kazooie has less examples of small maps.

>>383537745
>1) Don't dead end the player. There's something useful at the end of every path.
That's weak. I enjoy the occasional "because fuck you" dead end, it builds character.

>>383537879
Pretty spot on. It's amazing how hard it is for some retards to grasp this. Only thing I'd point out is a lot of BK's platforming occurs in between the interactive targets.

>>383537983
It's nothing to do with map size. In SM64, you have one objective at any one time but there are multiple ways to reach it. In Banjo, you can reach most objectives in any order from the start.

The problem with exploration is that no game has rich enough lore or world design to warrant it being the sole form of gameplay. Basically, you can have exploration and a shitty world, but you have to have something else.

Unfortunately Aonuma didn't feel like making half-decent combat or some actual puzzles, so we're stuck traversing dead grasslands that have no character.

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I love this shit

What was the first game to do it

>>383538270
Oh, well that mspaint looked skyrim levels of barren. I thought it was for a reason

>>383538493
Orly

>>383538230
>That's weak. I enjoy the occasional "because fuck you" dead end, it builds character.

I like fake dead ends better

Even the first metroid understood that and it doesn't give a shit about you

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>>383538690
rly

>>383538556
I don't know the first, but John Romero did that a lot in Doom.

>>383538556
>fake walls
>lock block
nah son

>>383538951
>fake walls
It's mspaint. It's any easily missed route.

>lock block
what

>>383538807
>and it doesn't give a shit about you
Aw yis. That's the best, in moderation of course.

>>383534942
BK is more like the midpoint between bottom left and right.

Right would be the average open-world game (outside of cities, which tend to be a bleaker-version of bottom-left).

>>383538685
It's supposed to be Skyrim levels of barren. Although that doesn't change the fact that Banjo Kazooie is closer to the bottom-right than it is to the bottom-left (it's just that everything is much closer together).

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>>383540639
>Banjo Kazooie is closer to the bottom-right than it is to the bottom-left (it's just that everything is much closer together)

>>383534361
Your "better" shows the solution (the key) before it shows the puzzle ( the locked door).
This is game design 101 m8 fix yer shit.

>>383540908
If you honestly can't understand what that means then you're a retard