can we please admit that "exploration" is a stupid

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>>383517591
Because it's fun

>>383517591
>can we please admit that "exploration" is a stupid meme?
No fuck off faggot.

>>383517821
it's not though. it's like trying to play where's waldo for 40 hours. maybe the first few pages are fun, but then it gets tiring and you just want to do something else.

>>383517591
No
Exploration is necessary because i want immersion.
Open world is a meme you are looking for

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>>383518035
Then just explore normally instead of doing the things mentioned in the OP, you don't have to do that and you will still find most of the areas.
It sounds more like you are forcing yourself to 100% everything asap because of autism .

>>383517591
I like it

>>383517591
I remember ninja gaiden black/sigma did this the right way:
most secrets are easy to visualize by just looking around, but it takes a good amount of thinking and skill getting to them

>we

>>383517591
Its optional so fuck off.
Dont like it? Dont do it.

Exploration is part of life itself

You fail to put your mind to good use by rejecting it

>>383518260
the exploration meme actively hinders immersion because you're compelled by meta knowledge to look in places you normally wouldn't. it's like how in real life if you're on vacation and want to explore your hotel you find the pool and the ice machine and feel accomplished, but in a video game you would be breaking into every room and looking in every closet because you expect to find a magic sword in one of them.

>>383518386
>you will still find most of the areas.
you won't even find half of them unless you're methodically searching for them. consider a hallway with 8 side rooms. one of them has an item in it. if you only go into one of them at random you only have a 12.5% chance of finding the item. what is "normally" exploring? do you take that 12.5% chance and just leave if you don't get it on your first guess? do you search until you find it? or do you keep checking all 8 in case there was more than 1 item?

>>383519014
so you are happy paying money for a game and then not even finding half of the stuff in it?

>>383519224
There is a huge difference between hugging every wall and falling into pitfalls and just checking every room in an area.
>so you are happy paying money for a game and then not even finding half of the stuff in it?
Are you literally retarded? I often 100% a game but what you are saying is still really fucking stupid.

>>383519224
>IRL you wouldnt
.. is a retarded argument, because immersion already states that it is NOT real life, so any analogy you are trying to force here is idiotic.

>>383519224
Dont like it? Dont do it.
Youre really fucking wordy for a man trying to do mental gymnastics

>>383517591
So if exploration sucks and people also hate hallways like in FFX and FXIII, then where is the middle ground?

>>383517591
>I don't like something, so it's stupid

t. feminist

>>383519627
Hallways where you can actually do things in.

>>383519575
you still have no reason to search every room in town or every dead end in every cave you come across without the meta knowledge that there's probably stuff there.

>>383519620
>just ignore half of the game
you're really fucking dumb

>>383519749
Any examples?

>let me ask what is the point of optional content that you obviously aren't expected to do?
To appeal to players that do want it. Are you against hard modes too?

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>>383517591
>/v/ is casual as fuck
>they dont even know what the Thief series is
>best exploration in a game
>literal best game in every aspect

>>383517591
Why do you say "have to"?
It's literally just a gimmick for rewarding those who seek out secrects, not many games have forced exploration

>>383517591
It's only a pointless gimmick if it doesn't add anything to the gameplay as a whole. If all you do is walk around empty designer art space then yes, it's utterly banal and pointless.

>>383517591
Name 10^(1/2) games that do this

In most games yes, it boils down to shallow side areas with some collectibles or ammo. Well designed games with no map and multiple viable paths which lead to meaningful content and are intereconnected to make backtracking fun are enjoyable though. Learning a layout and then using it to your advantage on consecutive playthroughs is enjoyable, making a mental map adds to your engagement with a game too.

>>383519224
Oh my god Shemue 2.

Fuck that game, for breaking my heart. There is literally a hotel with a could hundred rooms. A very high percentage of the doors don't open, but one has an Afterburner arcade machine in there, arguably the best part of the game is unlocking that from the main menu.

Didn't find without a guide and pretty sure I had to replay the whole game to get to that hotel.

Exploration is fun, however

>have to hump walls everywhere you go in case there's an invisible passage
Even worse when you have to hit the damn walls
>have to intentionally walk over pitfalls in case there's treasure at the bottom
Yeah, this shit isn't acceptable either.

The only way that shit is acceptable is if there's at least some sort of hint that that specific wall/pit is different from the rest. Like a riddle or something.

>>383517591

Exploration would be fine if games did it correctly. Unfortunately to date no game has ever done it correctly.

>>383517591
Prove to me Whiz isn't best girl. Cause I don't think it can be done.

>>383517591
Why do konosuba fags always spout dumb asinine opinions?

>>383517591
>let me ask what is the point of optional content that you obviously aren't expected to do
but you are, fag.
>inb4 most people don't explore
most people don't finish games, but the devs stil make them expecting you to beat them
>>383519224
>the exploration meme actively hinders immersion because you're compelled by meta knowledge to look in places you normally wouldn't
god forbid you get reminded that you're playing a video game
>it's like how in real life if you're on vacation and want to explore your hotel you find the pool and the ice machine and feel accomplished, but in a video game you would be breaking into every room and looking in every closet because you expect to find a magic sword in one of them.
you also don't run people over when driving irl, I hope. But you don't find it immersion breaking in gta, do you?

All games are 100% exploration. You can explore the levels, explore the plot and character interactions, explore the mechanics and figure out how to gain mastery over the game, and so on.

A game has an awesome intriguing setting and levels to delve into? That's exploration.
A game has incredibly deep mechanics and fosters a highly competitive player population? That's exploration.
A game has nuances to the narrative that reveal themselves in myriad ways throughout the game? That's exploration.

If you hate exploration, you hate video games.

>>383520982
>if I define every word anew to support my view then I win

>>383520103
there are barely any people that do want it though. how many people actually fully clear every single copy pasted dungeon in skyrim? or even pick up every single medpack in a fps? most people who claim to want "exploring" actually just wander around at random and don't bother backtracking once they feel like they had enough.

>>383520147
it doesn't reward people for looking for secrets, it punishes them. consider a rpg with 300 npcs. with zero meta knowledge how many would you talk to? probably not all of them. maybe 100-150 depending on how fun the dialogue is. now how many will you talk to if you have the meta knowledge that 15 of them will give you an item if you talk to them? for the first few towns you will talk to everyone so you don't miss any. then it will start to feel like a drag and you just want to get on with the story, so you either have to force yourself to keep doing it, or you go online and look at a guide, which results in you ignoring everyone but those 15 characters.

>>383517591
>>have to go down dead ends because there's probably stuff "hidden" there
What's the problem with this, again?

>>have to guess which way is the dead end because there's no map
Thank God. Maps are boring, annoying casual-aids for pussies.

>>have to backtrack across the entire level when you guess wrong
Lol, cry more loser shoulda known better. But seriously, backtracking is not inherently bad.

>>have to hump walls everywhere you go in case there's an invisible passage
This is a problem not with exploration as a mechanic but with the level of talent/skill of the developers. If they were more competent, the passages wouldn't be invisible, they would be "invisible," if you catch my drift?

>>have to intentionally walk over pitfalls in case there's treasure at the bottom
If you don't like consuming the content that literally is 'the game' you don't have to, contrary to what you say here.

>>383518035
You're not though. There is no game out there that's pure exploration. I agree that guessing which maze corridor to go down is only fun for the first few turns, but you almost always have to do it for a few turns at a time between combat or puzzle sections.

On top of that, most mandatory exploration is easily identifiable without a proverbial X-ray visor. Some visible or audible clue lets you know where to go pretty quickly once you learn to recognize them.

If you just plain don't like exploration, that's one thing. But if you think a game is bad for featuring it then it's bad for other reasons.

>>383520982
You sound like a guy who's never explored a girl's vagina.

>>383521349
Except they still find some hidden dungeons and some hidden medpacks/ammo and enjoy it. Since it is optional you give the players the illusion of agency which is very important, feeling like you found some optional content on your own is empoweting. Different players will find different areas and have different experiences, this makes it more fun to talk about the game too. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

This is what made Metroid such a good game. No matter where you went, you always found something cool or wanted to continue exploring. There was no such thing as a "dead end". Even if you needed another powerup to continue, not only could you still find cool stuff along the way, but sequence breaks were even made by intelligent speedrunners to completely crack the game open like an egg.

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>>383520982
Shit son... what else do you have to say?

>>383517591
First - exploration content is optional. Second - >>383517821 said it. Third - you're lazy butt either from very old times, which i would hardly beleive, or from new times, which means you're just lazy butt with no exploration sense.

Exploration is NOT arbitrarily walking down dead end paths because there might be secrets.

Exploration is where the path is not immediately obvious and you must get a sense for your surroundings to proceed and progress.

As with any video game mechanic, the developer needs to strike a solid balance between giving you enough cues and context clues that you can make your way competently through an area if you're attentive but not so blatant that the act of traversal is perfunctory and feels like "hallway walking simulator"

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>>383520972
you obviously aren't expected to do all of the optional content in most games. in almost all rpgs you end up overlevelled just from killing every enemy in every dungeon and finding every treasure chest. in fps games you usually end up finding crates of ammo you can't even pick up because you're still at the ammo cap from the last several crates you found.

>>383521868
why would you not want to get all of the content in a game?

>>383522358
it's not optional. the player is punished for not doing it by having to feel like you're missing stuff.

>>383521868
yes casuals just want to feel special for finding 5% of the game's hidden content not caring that they're ruining it for players who actually want to 100% it.

>>383517591
Are you complaining that something completely optional annoys you? why?

>>383522956
>it's not optional. the player is punished for not doing it by having to feel like you're missing stuff.
It is optional, your feeling of missing out is entirely on you.

>>383523056
Because op has ocd and wants his 100% completion reward on a silver platter.

>>383517591
>>hurr it's optional you don't have to do it
>let me ask what is the point of optional content that you obviously aren't expected to do?
It's there if you want it. You obviously don't, so ignore it.
Many of us love scraping every shiny out of a dungeon before leaving.

>>383522956
>you HAVE to get 100% in games
>but getting 100% in games is shit
this is either ACfag level autism or an amazingly good bait

>>383522956
>why would you not want to get all of the content in a game?
Why would I? Does it add to the fun? There are many games I love that would fucking suck if you had to 100% them, that doesn't change the fact that they're really good when you're doing non-autistic playthroughs though.

>>383522956
> it's not optional. the player is punished for not doing it by having to feel like you're missing stuff.
If you suffer from being autistic and lazy at the same moment, it's not our problem. We're autistic and NOT that lazy, so we, target audience, found it being fun to search everything. We also don't think this content is optional, that's why we search for it. Since you're lazy butt from new era, you cannot understand this feeling. Most games with exploration are oriented on both gamers, who played games since 1980 - since, for, example, 2000, most games with exploration and secrets were created during this time. All games after that period were splitted in either copying old games (not bad, but mostly lacks something original, still playable and enjoyable though) or cinema, when you just watch this cinema rarely pressing buttons at qte, if this cinema even get one.

>>383522956
So if I got this right, you want games to have less content because you can't keep you autism in check, which forces you to cemplete everything a 100%. And instead of dealing with you mental problems, you want games to have less content so you can be at peace.

>>383517591
Learning a map and using it's environment to your advantage is hella fun and requires some from of exploration. But I can understand why you would dislike collecting random junk

>>383522956
You seem to have gotten that image backwards.

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>>383517591
it's not a meme it's an option.
for as long as the technology has allowed there have been games with certain freedoms/exploration aspects. that never or devalued the still popular linear approach.

you'll understand why having both is nice, even if you don't happen to like both, when you're older, anon

but on another note
>>383517591
>I can't believe that anyone without ulililia tier autism can actually enjoy backtracking for hours and checking every possible thing for secrets. I'm willing to bet all of the money I don't actually have that people who claim they love exploring end up completing games with less than 50% of all areas fully explored.

sick projecting there right at the end. and it's not like anyone would argue that games that MAKE you do that are making a bad call, but what's wrong with having the option?

>>383523570
I don't care if games have more content, but the content should not be based around backtracking and having to check every area for secrets like you're a csi team.

>>383523771
What if I want to play a game that makes me feel like I am on a CSI team?