Bioshock

Also- https://youtu.be/IHXc6IHeOG4

Completely agree. Boy that lady comstock fight.

I felt it didn't reach it's true potential, I was more hyped for the game the earlier marketing was showing. But it's still a great game that tries and succeeds more than a lot of other games out there.

>>383328086

BIO>BIO INFINITE> BIO 2

The shitstorm that happened when people explained how fucking stupid the entire plot premise is and Infinite fans tried to damage control by saying it's just too deep was pretty silly.

>>383328086
>I wouldn't say it's BAD, but it certainly isn't straightforward to understand, meaning the average player wouldn't find it rewarding or interesting.
Why don't you just come right out and say "you only think it's bad because you didn't get it" instead of pussy-footing around the point so you can try to act like an intellectual?

>it's another "this awful game everyone rightfully hates is actually good and you're just stupid" episode
Thanks but we get enough of these threads.

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>>383328086
The gunplay in Infinite is absolutely terrible and the two weapon system made investing in any weapon pointless.
The story was nonsensical and Levine is a hack.
The ending made no sense because infinite universes means killing Booker accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Songbird was a cool "villain" but was completely wasted because you never actually fucking fight him.
The final boss was a wave shooter.
The game removed choices having any effect on the story from the first two games.
It also removed the story being good.

I almost feel sorry for people that like Bioshock Infinite. I can't imagine what being a part of the lowest common denominator is like.

>>383331983
>Songbird was a cool "villain"
Early on, trailers showed Songbird as a huge and constant presence around the entire area where you had to hide as he would, in scripted events anyways, peer into buildings and rooms. At release he became nothing more than a passing act and plot device. He was going to be pretty damn cool but nah, they made him nothing.

>>383332258
this

I liked Infinite, but I don't like what it did to the story of the first game. I just pretend it's not canon

>>383331762
No I understand it, even know it took me a while. It's just that when you have to actually spend half an hour watching explications of what actually happened, I tend to think that casual gamers and newcomers to the series wouldn't be able to get anything out of it.

>>383328086
https://youtu.be/muJYTeQlvC4

>>383332895
And even then it makes no sense because they literally solved nothing. All of their explanations are pointless.

>>383332895
>I had to watch YouTube videos to understand it.
>Explications
You don't get it.

>>383331983
I feel like you put the game down after 15 mins man. I actually agree with some of that, other things I think arent a problem or have been exchanged with a new feature to make issues non-existant. The 2 weapon part was pretty shit though. Also fuck you for saying levine is a hack, what makes you think that?

i think that infinite could have been a great game, but you can tell about halfway through, Levine didn't know what he wanted to do so he said fuck it and went with the fanfiction ending.
He's the JJ Abrams of gaming.

I got stuck at the first puzzle so I never even got to see Columbia

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>>383333774

>>383333283
First round obviously I didnt. You get told a bunch of incoherent bs about universes then told you are comstock... I once I googled it and realized I missed a few things I understood it 90%, although the ending wasn't satisfactory for me. It's interesting and would fit in a book, but quite questionable for a game.

>>383331025
holy shit what? Bioshock 2 has infinitely better gameplay than infinite

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I felt nothing.

Maybe I'd have felt something if Elizabeth had huge visible tits poping out of her dress or if she was a little girl wearing a sexy outfit.

>>383333608
at least abrams got pacing down. Infinite is a fucking slog.

Also the problem is really less about the story. No one expects a good story but players need serviceable gameplay

>>383334231
The first one had a decent story.

>>383334040
>The fanfiction is better than the original game
Just no.

>>383328086
>Ending wasn't bad

Are you fucking kidding me? The game ends with the MC being killed because 'durr, that will stop all antagonists' despite the fact they point out there are nigh infinite timelines or whatever.

Killing the MC is pointless, vindictive, and amounts to nothing.

i started with bioshock 2 and beat infinite, tried to play bioshock 1 but the systems felt too clunky and tedious compared to 2 so i never finished it

bioshock 2 is easily my favorite, playing as a big daddy was tremendously fun, there were a huge amount of FPS mechanics for me to fuck around with like the camera thing, doing combos, drill dashing, setting traps, summon robots, etc. infinite got rid of all of it, but i still liked it a lot even though it was arguably less fun to play, purely from an immersion stand point, infinite was awe inspiring. the flying city of columbia is amazingly realized and every area of the game had so much detail to support the immersion, its one of those games where i stop doing the missions and just look at things because it actually managed to create something other worldly and unique

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>>383334040
>That drill dash attack
Boy if this wasn't the funnest attack. Get Camouflage tonic and charge people out of fucking nowhere.

>>383328086
>infinite is overrated

Nani? Infinite is almost unanimously hated on /v/ for its utter garbage story, mediocre gameplay, wasted and very lackluster plasmids and on a whole worse-than-its-predecessors feel.

The only things people tend to agree on is thematically, it looks pretty nice and Elizabeth in gameplay at least isn't a useless cunt.

>>383334429
Are you retarded?

is there a critique of infinite's story that i can read somewhere?

>>383334439
>game uses literal quantum-mechanics as a main story point
>writer admits he doesn't understand quantum-mechanics and only too the parts that sounded coolest and would work the best in a story
>story ends up making not one goddamn bit of sense to anyone with two braincells to rub together

Whodathunkit.

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>>383334823
No

>>383334482
I love how they subtly added the little sister screaming when you activate it.

>>383334906
I don't understand this criticism regardless of the topic. Most writers make stories about things they don't know about. How many people play video games and actually understand quantum mechanics in regards the multiverse theory

>>383335005
I didn't even notice that. Is it the high pitched noise? I always thought that was the drill spinning or your super fast movement combined with the spinning making it high pitched.

>>383334439
dewit was comstock, and comstock was dewitt, the day than him goes to the church or the river he changes his mind and converts him in cumstock, i dont see very hard to understand.

>>383335264

The thing is you don't need to understand quantum theory to recognize the faulty plot and the lame narrative cop-outs like muh variables and constants.

>>383333462
I played it and beat it you redditard faggot. It was a horrible experience.
Levine is a hack because he thinks that because he doesn't understand something, it makes it profound and deep. A direct quote from the man is "I like things that make me feel stupid." Infinite's story was absolute nonsense, in a PATHETIC attempt to try and emulate the fantastic plot twist Bioshock 1 had in "Would you kindly?" he simlly uses the trope of "YOU ARE DA BAD GUY" that everyone saw coming from a mile away. The main villain's views and plight aren't relatable and sensable like Andrew Ryan's. He was just OLD RACISS WHITE CHRISTIAN MALE with no relatable qualities that make a villain good.

Bioshock Infinite was a bad game and you are an absolute casual.

>>383335693
Okay, explain to me the problem you have with it. Maybe we can come to some sort of understanding.

>>383335264
It's a completely valid criticism, though.

You can make up whatever shit you want, and you can even completely bastardize or change existing things to suit your story. But you absolutely HAVE to have internal consistency, or the entire universe you're constructing falls apart.

The criticism in this case stems from the fact that by not understanding even the basics of multiverse theory, the writer completely fucked himself in the climax by creating an ending that didn't make sense even by his own made-up rules version of quantum-mechanics.

Also, that second argument isn't valid either. If you write a story about aardvarks, and then make up a bunch of shit that isn't true, you can't justify it with 'well nobody knows shit about aardvarks anyways so who cares'. That's just flat out being a poor, lazy writer, and anyone who knows anything about the topic you're writing about will naturally call you on your bullshit.

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>near crying of emotions at others

what the fuck. this has to be shitposting. bioshock infinite's story was not at all that good.

I beat Infinite on 1999 mode the first time I played it and it was fun as fuck.

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>>383336085
>the magic ghost lady on 1999 mode

I think you confused 'fun' with 'what the fucking even is this bullshit'.

>>383335885

and that its a problem, most of the sci-fi thing do that shit, the company dont contract a fucking scientist to every shit.

>>383335885
I mean most of the time people don't care if you write a load of garbage. I've heard before of Americans writing books set in Britain that a horribly innacurate crap, but only Bongs catch on and complain in the end.

Also, people always vaguely mention stuff about the story falling apart, but I want to know what you mean by that.

For those wanting to know about the story, after the battle of wounded knee, booker is offered a baptism. He declines, gambles, sells his daughter and life goes to shit. In an alternate universe where booker accepts the baptism, he hires some quantum scientists to basically make colombia, using tears or something made him grow old bretti fast. That is the easy part to understand. It gets tricky here. Booker sells his daughter to comstock as comstock comes through a tear- (cant remember why comstock wanted bookers daughter), so the main premise is for booker to rescue his daughter that was stolen from his universe by a /pol/ tier version of himself that made a floating city in an alternate timeline. Yeah, something like that.

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>/v/ is now contrarian enough to defend Bioshock Infinite

>>383331983
>it also removed the story being good
kek

>>383336508
There have always been fags defending it. The people defending it after release was laughable.

>>383336295
The Ghost Lady wasn't THAT bad, but it was definitely pretty fucking difficult.

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>>383336508
>/v/ was contrarian enough to hate Bioshock infinite

>Then it realized everyone else on the site hated it too and are now defending it

>>383333774

wow good joke mate, i never hear that, that joke is so original and fucking hilarous.

>>383331983
>duhhh, you enjoyed video gem, u are stupid
Shut the fuck up, moron.

>>383336583
Are you kidding? Playing on the hardest mode I couldn't even half kill her per revive. The 500 skeletons every 10 seconds is suicide inducing. The only way I could ever beat her was if it was like 1 or 2 and she didn't heal when I died.

>>383336941
Maybe I need to replay the game soon, I might be repressing all the details of that fight.

>>383336583
She not hard. She's just a bulletsponge that takes forever to kill.

>>383335919
Nah man. I dont mean sobbing ELIZIBETH the whole way through, just some of the sunsets combined with music, some of the minor details that I caught on to, it struck an emotional part of me at times, like watch a beautiful part of a movie. Hate me all you want but if I cant lie. I really enjoyed some of the story.

>>383337236
I had to drop the detail because I was going to crush my controller with my hands. I'm convinced it can't be done.

>>383337342
>>383337236
Difficulty*

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>>383328086
I consider Bioshock infinite to be it's own thing. It is way too different from the other games to be considered a bioshock game even though the story is part of the mainline.

Some parts were pretty badly designed though, especially that shitty ghost fight, the devs probably didn't even finished the game on the hardest mode without cheesing it out like everyone did.

The story, tonics and the wolrd didn't make a bit of sense to me, why in the fuck would anyone sell a tonic that lets you summon crowns, what is the use of it, or why would anyone sell a mind control potion? it makes no sense.

the last fight is also kind of a joke since you only need to use that tonic that catches projectiles while sniping the enemies from safety.

>>383336407
>most of the time people don't care if you write a load of garbage

Typically because the average consumer is a braindead idiot who buys anything with the word "Minions" in it, and catering to them does nothing but lower the bar straight to hell, but digressing...

>what do you mean by that
I'll try to break this down as briefly as possible but it'll still be a read;

Ignoring all other plotholes, the giant ending-breaking one occurs with the drowning of Booker. In real-life multiverse theory, the thought process goes something like this; every action creates a parallel universe. You are born and don't cry, universe 1. You are born and cry, universe 2. In the universe where you cry, your dad holds you; universe 3. In the universe where you don't cry, your dad holds you; universe 4. Forever and ever and onward. Every single action you take or don't take creates a new branch, effectively creating infinity -1 possible realities in which every conceivable action occurs.

In Infinite's fake-science, this is similar, but with the difference that there are 'constants and variables'. That is to say, you ALWAYS will cry when you are born, for example, but whether your dad or mom holds you is a variable, and the universe will branch only then. However, this still means there are metric fucktons of branched worlds because the 'variables', or times when choices matter(tm), are still legion, and basically the only difference functionally is that instead of infinity-1 different universes, there are instead hundreds of billions.

cont.

>>383332258
Levine stated that the game was rushed and further development for the creeper songbird mechanic is going to take ages to program.
Due to the graphic limitations for Inf has been set and theyve spent way too much time designing the game for the PS3 they have to release the product before Sony announce the PS4.
He also stated if the game was designed for the PC the game is probably gonna be released in 2016 at minimum.

>>383335373
Then you are a retard it was established that there was infinite universes meaning that Comstock will never die and killing MC is pointless.

>and near crying of emotion at others.

get out faggot

>>383337692

not but you can kill the chain.

>>383328086
handyman was too difficult on 1999 mode imo i had to just cheese him jumping on and off skyhooks with the burning hat

>>383334470
Are you me? Did the same.

>>383335753
We get that you loathe the story. YOU love it. It aint a masterpiece, but you are fucking retarded if you don't appreciate SOME of the concepts and elements. Im not talking about the ending, just small parts of dialogue and what the player may speculate about how events transpire. Also there was no RACISS old white guy. The game made it clear that with a white population, the place wad a utopian society. Then commies and niggers came along, raped and killed everyone and fucked it all up.

>>383328086
Please go back to plebbit with your shit taste

>>383331983
this post is pretty much spot on

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I wanted to like it so bad.

I was hyped as hell up to release, and bought it day 1. I remember being skeptical about the drastic change of setting, but still optimistic.

If they had switched their philosophies for gameplay and story, it would have been a hit. Sadly, they borrowed to much from previous games via the story, and too little of the combat mechanics.

It pretty hilarious actually. Thematically, the game reeks of being pulled in too many directions, and attempts to justify it self with that needlessly convoluted ending.

It's bad at EVERY level of analysis, (somehow even the composer took a step back, compared to his works in the first game.)

I think the moment when i lost hope in the game is when you switch universes because the arms manufacturer you're trying to contact is gone or dead or whatever (I can't remember exactly). Somehow, the nonchalant universe jumping just seemed to invalidate any effort you put into the world.

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>>383333040
>2011/2012
>Huge open world with RPG elements and choices akin to the first 2 BioShocks
>Columbia feels like Rapture in the sky and has a very creepy turn-of-the-century atmosphere unlike anything we've ever seen before
>Enemies were genuinely unnerving and affected the way you approached certain levels (Handymen seemed to have a larger role in the game's story, Boys of Silence were essentially security cameras that picked up on every sound you made, Songbird was always on the move and you would have to hide from him at times)
>Plot seemed to revolve around rescuing Elizabeth and escaping Columbia, with Comstock only being mentioned a few times
>Tears could only be used sparingly, and when you used them they hurt Elizabeth. This was also apparently going to affect your relationship with her and which ending you got
>Elizabeth and Booker's dialogue and relationship feels natural and, at times, almost like an action movie
>Game looks as though it was going to be a worthy spin-off of the original BioShock games, with its own setting and characters but still in-tune to what we expect a BioShock game to be

>Release
>Linear FPS with very few RPG elements
>Columbia is nothing how it was in the first trailers, everything is too clean and everything revolves around Comstock now
>Handymen are used sparingly, Boys of Silence only appear in 1 level, Songbird is never fought at all and only appears in scripted scenes
>Plot is a bunch of bullshit about quantum physics and how christianity is evil and something about constants and variables, also Elizabeth is capable of moving in-between all realities and is a Mary Sue
>Tears can be used as much as you want with no effect on the story whatsoever
>Elizabeth and Booker's dialogue is cringy at times, and their relationship is never fully explored
>Game shoehorns Rapture into its ending so it can appear to be 2deep4u, when really it just feels like the writers couldn't think of a proper ending

What went so fucking wrong?

>>383337554
You probably get this already but the constants and variables meme is a plot device to justify similar settings for every game

>>383338496

a no mans sky lower lever, i mean in promises.

>>383334429

Are you kidding me faggot? Bio2 has the best gameplay and shooting of the two games. Infinite does not even count out of how fucking boring and underwhelming it is.

>>383338647
Its the same gameplay as the first game with minute differences and few improvements. However it has a terrible story and doesn't deserve to be part of the series, and don't even get me started on the "big daddy" gameplay

>>383336295

that fight was absolute piss when you combined some gear with that charging tonic which stunned her. Spam that shit and she dead.

1999 mode was insultingly easy after a certain upgrade point.

>>383337554
Now here's where the problem with the internal logic failure occurs;
The reason Elizabeths drown Booker at the baptism is explained in-universe as so all future Comstocks will also never exist. If you imagine all universes as tree-branches, diverging when a 'variable' choice is made, this is effectively cutting the branch right at the Baptism-choice to deny all possible futures, including the ones where Comstock is created.

However, what the writer failed to think about was tracing the 'branches' further back, and this is what creates the story-breaking plothole. Going back to the previous examples, let us for argument's sake say that the Booker you play in-game is a Booker who was handed to his father when he was born and cried. That was the first 'branch' in the tree. Elizabeths drowning the Booker you play as does stop Comstock from existing, but ONLY FOR THAT SPECIFIC BRANCH.

The booker you play as has gone through, presumably, MILLIONS or BILLIONS of potential 'variables' throughout his life. For each one of those, the tree has branched, creating alternate universes. Just from that first example, which parent holds him? Two universes now. Does he get taken home a day early or not? FOUR universe now, because remember, BOTH OF THE PREVIOUS UNIVERSES NOW BRANCH. The next variable? Eight universes. Then sixteen. Thirty-two. By the time Booker has even turned twenty, you could, even with the fantasy-rules of multiverse, be looking at hundreds of millions of alternate universes.

And by drowning the Booker you play as, Elizabeths have cut the branch and prevented a Comstock...in ONE of them.

And even worse, there will be universes where Booker never fought at Wounded Knee. Where Booker was a girl. Where Booker never had a daughter. Unless you want to believe the entirety of Booker's life was predetermined, there are countless junctions and 'variables' in which he lives a perfectly normal life.

cont.

Hey reddit, I actually liked the combat on Bioshock Infinite, my only two complaints were not being able to carry a vast arsenal and lack of plasmid-powered enemies.

>>383338052
I love discussion too

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>80 replies
>pic related hasn't been mentioned

you're slipping /v/

>>383339487

>being this autist

we are talking about problems and good things, faggot make you owm thread.

Mattekudasai, ano kaado...

>>383339487
Why the fuck would we mention a game that isn't BioShock in a BioShock thread?

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>Bioshock 1/2 were personal favorites
>especially loved the setting
>got massively enthusiastic or Infinite
>would religiously follow the game during development
>got hyped as shit for the world building and E3 trailers
>at one point stopped watching previews to avoid spoilers
>went in blind
>mfw finally finished this clusterfuck

I did everything in my power to like it, and really tried to enjoy it, but it was such a mayor dissapointment in every sense that to this day I still want to spit on the developers.

Powers were generally mediocre and used few of them which actually helped (AKA three or two of them all) , the perks were awful and used always the same ones the entire game, combat was painful due to being limited to two weapons and even more limited because I couldnt carry items like the salt or health kits. The shield made you unkillable afer a certain point of upgrade, enemies were awful in variety , AI was pathetic, the fucking rail shit was restricted as fuck. And the worst offender was definitely the world itself. Just so painfully lifeless and uninteresting, with a story that made no fucking sense logically when really paying attention. The fact that money was used for any upgrade was also fucking terrible, even more when you couldnt use a gun for most or even an entire fucking level because it wasn't there to be found on any enemy and I was stuck with shitty SMG's. The upgrades were also just more damage and such, making them even more uninteresting and unfun when summing the fact there was no ammo variety to play around with and experiment on foes.

Not even MGSV was that dissapointing for me because atleast I had fun playing it for the while it lasted. Infinite was a fucking chore to play and the worst levels of goddamn anger I ever had at a game.

>>383335753
its a pretty cool game dude

>>383328086
Infinite is unironically one of my fave fps games.
it does have a lot of downfalls, a lot of which are linked to last gen hardware.
It's a linear shooter, with fun gunplay and a great setting and art style.
Good paradoxical twist at the end too which is quite thought provoking.

Prey is a great shooter too, top tier level design, not linear , more immersive

>>383331983
yep, infinite truly is terrible and misses everything that made the first game good.

>>383331983

>omplying the final boss and the final scene was not shit.

god i only hate that shit about the 1.

>>383339175
The giant plothole is, essentially, that it is functionally impossible to completely stop every single possible reality from having a Comstock, which is the entire reason Elizabeths drowned Booker in the first place. From even the get-go, there are billions upon billions of universes in which a Comstock exists, and you are shown about...ten, Elizabeths who are implied to have drowned their own Bookers and are here to deal with you.

Secondly, even if the story is saying that the Elizabeths really do intend to visit every fucking one of those billions of realities to kill off their Bookers, it would take more lifetimes to accomplish than the combined lifespans of every Booker-universe in existence, rendering it a pyrrhic victory at best (aka; spending 50 million years combined in order to have 50,000 combined years of non-comstock-ness).

And even if BOTH those other issues are overlooked, the fact remains that there will be nigh-countless universes in which Comstock NEVER exists, because Booker never has a daughter or he never goes to Wounded Knee or Wounded Knee never even HAPPENS or America was never founded or any one of x-billion reasons for why he wouldn't need to attend that specific baptism. This means that even though there are 50-billion universes in which Comstock exists, there are also 50-billion in which he DOESN'T, making your entire struggles and conflicts ultimately meaningless because there are multitudes of universes not suffering, and spending millions of years trying to save the ones that are loses most of its impact and meaning.

tl;dr, multiverse theory ruins investment and threat because there are plenty of peaceful non-threatened realities, and so focusing on the struggles of a single reality isn't that big of a deal anymore.

>>383338496

Fucking hell, watching the E3 trailers this game looked like godsend. Literally 99% of the game is scrapped, only thing left is the Crow animation when Booker gets the power.

I am still made nobody called the devs on this bullshit after release, I was fucking mad playing this crap.

>>383337692
they shoot themselves in the foot by saying there are infinite universes but also CONSTANTS and VARIABLES, like they don't really understand what an alternate universe is, or what Infinity means.

how is the bioshock collection in comparison to the originals, did they not change it at all or fuck things up

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JESUS CHRIST MODERATORS

>>383331983
>gunplay in Infinite is absolutely terrible
actually it is very fulfilling, mixing vigors with hard hitting 1920 weaponry.
>investing in any weapon pointless.
because you are a faggot who wants to play doom infinite, who did not understand you are supposed to pick up and drop weapons on the fly, hence why enemies drop weapons and tears bring new ones in. You aren't supposed to "main" a weapon.
>The story was nonsensical
>The ending made no sense
too stupid to understand simple concepts of quantum entanglement and time paradoxes.

>>383339182
How about

>there's no final fucking bossfight in a game released after the year 2000
>an entire mechanic, the plasmids, was underdeveloped and lackluster as all hell
>guns were ruined by the 2-carry limit and the necessity that one of those is either a sniper or explosive for minibosses
>the levels were needlessly linear while the game still tried to promote exploration
>the story was ass
>they spent 50 gorillion dollars on Elizabeth's AI and nobody gave a fuck

>>383340401
>too stupid to understand simple concepts of quantum entanglement and time paradoxes.
none of the concepts of quantum entanglement and time paradoxes used in Infinite's plot were used correctly, the game manages to fuck up scientific reference

>>383340268

Console version is fine now, at first Bioshock 1 had a weird analog deadzone thing going on but it was patched. Bioshock 2 gets partially neutered since online play is axed, still worth playing it and Minerva's Den, though. Infinite is just as shit as it was six years ago or whatever.

I believe the PC version of 2 is still kinda fucked.

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>>383340401

>defending weapon limit
>in a fucking fps

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>>383340401

>>383340401

The combat is fucking garbage. The second half of the gun selection is just poorly tweaked versions of the first half, there's no alternate ammo, there's no unique weapon modifications and there's a two-gun limit. The vigors almost all function in the exact same way: uselessly, as 90% of gunfights are you wandering into a scripted shootout with no time for laying traps.

>>383340268

1 has some new animations and models, 2 has no multiplayer , Infinite is still shit.

Pc version is kinda buggy, id get the original version in a keysite if I were you

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>>383340169
>that interview where they describe how they spent hundreds of manhours coding and working that first beach-section after you get Elizabeth for the first time
>how they made her curious and interact with literally everything
>how she has custom facial reactions and dialogue lines that occur for fucking everything
>how they spent hundreds of thousands of sheckles coding her AI to do this throughout the whole game

>and how they always felt bad when a player just takes her and blows through the area in 2 minutes after looting everything and then moving on

Why the fuck would you make your programmers waste time with this bullshit, of fucking course players are just going to blow through the game and not slowly walk around watching Elizabeth interact with orphans and baby birds because this is a motherfucking Bioshock action-shooty-looty game and not a walking simulator yoooou DENSE MOTHERFUCKERS.

>>383338496
>Boys of Silence were essentially security cameras that picked up on every sound you made,
i havent played the game in a while did the boys wound up becoming light scanners because i dont remember them using sound based detection on release.

Infinite used to be my most disappointing game of all time. Until it was replaced by Battlefront™. Awful in just about every aspect.

>>383338974

It sounds like you just disliked Bioshock 2, m8. Everybody else likes everything you listed as a flaw or inconsequential.

Like christ, being able to use plasmids and guns at the same time alone. And everybody, EVERYBODY feels guttural satisfaction to twitch drill dash and annihilate a splicer when their kiddo screams.

The story is pretty fucky but they did what they could without retconing game 1 and not making game 2 feel TOO weird and stupid about it. It still feels a little weird and stupid that Rapture functioned for 10+ years after Ryan vs Fontaine vs Ryan's Son. It's still not an irredeemable disaster like say the Mass Effect series. It gets the job done.

t. dude who just replayed both games this month

>>383340161
I see what you mean about the problem but I don't completely agree with you

>Constants and variables
This was honestly just a plot device to make sense of every universe having the core characters and setting. This is alluded to because Elizabeth says it while looking at the different types of lighthouses (meaning in another reality Booker lives in rapture instead of new york)

>10 or so Elizabeth's for infinite comstocks
This part confused me and admittedly is the biggest issue of hack writing in the game. The message that is attempting to get across with Booker wanting to kill Comstock as a child and Elizabeth taking him to the baptism. The point they want to get across here is that all universes in which Booker accepts or refuses the baptism are removed, which causes the Elizabeth's to disappear as they can no longer exist. The only ones that remain are niche universes such as the burial at sea universe

tl:dr The "constants" are plot devices and the 10 Elizabeths in the final cutscene are likely not literal

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>>383340558
>scientific reference
>trying to gain fiction to have realistic scientific structure
it's fiiction ffs, they were travelling to parallel universes.
which I might as well add is an irl valid scientific theory. the multiverse theory.
>>383340630
>wanting to carry around 780 weapons in an fps like you are gigga nigga 8000
we already had like 8 different vigors on hand, we don't need 8 weapons too.
he game has a shit load of weapons already in the game and multiple ways to use the vigors, and combo them. You obviously were not inventive enough.
play clash in the clouds

>>383341340
Well yeah I didn't like it, and I just told you why

>>383341486

Fair enough but it's a solid part of the series is my disagreement with what you said. Especially when Infinite is over there showing what really could've gone wrong.

>>383340857
>no time for laying traps
you actually liked those bullshit "protect the little sister while she harvests adam" segments.
it's just a horde mode, which was constantly repeated in 2, it was the worse part of that game.
To set traps in infinite, just hold the vigor button/key

>>383341359
You're not hearing me, though. I'm aware they're implying that all universes in which Booker accepts or refuses the baptism are removed, the hole is that drowning a single Booker from a single universe does not and cannot accomplish that, making both your death and your life a meaningless sacrifice until the x-billion other Bookers are also killed off. And that's not even touching the issue of the fact that there are plenty of non-Comstock'd Bookers out there not-having radical sky adventures and being perfectly happy.

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>>383341642
>He never snuck around and set up traps for splicers or big daddies

>>383341606
Are you telling me it's more of a solid part of the story than infinite? Because gameplay is really all it had when making a playable big daddy and the story when out the window, so as much as you may hate infinite it at least has a tangible link to the storyline

>>383341642

Fuckin' with traps was a big part of Bioshock 1 as well. Unless you went full unga bunga and smashed robots instead of hacking them. There's several horde wave moments or bosses conveniently standing next to robots. Folks like the shake up in their mainstream FPS.

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>>383341860
>not going unga-bunga-wrenchstop and doing a wrench/plasmids only playthrough with Vitachambers deactivated on the hardest difficulty

>>383341727
I get it and that's what I mean by the cutscene being metaphorical. Its not one Booker and it's not one Elizabeth. If it was only one Booker omly one Elizabeth would vanish. All of them disappearing is the games way of showing its not Booker being killed, but the idea of Booker and Comstock involved in infinite.
As for the unrelated Bookers, I don't see a reason why their existence would really matter in the same way the infinite versions of Booker do.

>>383341796

BS2's story was awkward but it worked well enough for "go back to Rapture after BS1" and "what happens to Rapture if we assume everybody isn't dead and the evil ending isn't canon" and "can we tell another Rapture story" and "can we work in a bunch of feels about daughterfus" and some other shit. And it's just awkward because you have to accept at face value that Lamb was super important to Rapture culture but utterly absent and vanished by BS1, or that Rapture functioned at all for ten years even in a damaged state.

I'll definitely say BS2 had a more solid story because all the "You're a Big Daddy" stuff worked better in this prototype stage for me before it was realized in it's full terrifying final form in Infinite. Elizabeth was an OK character but I didn't bite the MUH WAIFU fruit and she was just this escort that was nice enough to be immortal and seemed to way too conspicuously toss me 50 Combucks every single time I used a vending machine.

Ultimately, eh. BS1 was great, BS2 was good enough, Infinite was where they ran out of steam and totally lost me by the time any of the reveals came around.

>>383341642

Bioshock 2 defense segments had

>Trap rivets
>Spear traps
>Mines
>Turrets
>Bot summons
>Hypnotized big daddy
>Elemental spring traps
>Eleanor wrecking everyone with a sword-sized syringe

Bioshock Infinite had

>Elemental traps
>Crow spamming to stun most everything
>Elizabeth summoning a puddle of water

Gee what fun.

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>>383336508
I can't believe this shit either.

>>383341762
>>383341860
>smashed robots instead of hacking them
you have the same in infinite, it's called possession.
Posses a turret, it shoots the enemy or they destroy it, posses the heavy rocket guy, he kills the enemy then commits suicide.
Hold shock jockey trap, does what the electric harpoon in B2 does, but better.
Then you have loads of other traps and especially return to sender OP trap late game.
On top of that liz tears bring their own traps in, and environmental traps are everywhere, like fireworks, or water and oil of the floor.

I can kill all 3 lady comstock encounters on 1999 with traps before I even have to get into combat with her.

>>383342236
I see what you mean but I can't help but feel like it's a fanfic cashgrab. It plays and seems like an extremely forced sequel to a game that cleanly ended with 1, and the "you're the big daddy now lol" only ended up giving you a drill instead of a wrench. There is a lot of wasted potential in dumbing down what it could be like to play as a big daddy into a retextured Jack with a dash

>>383342170
>everything is symbolic and the ending is a giant pileup of allegories and metaphorical implications

If that really was the case, I'm still going to call massive bullshit because it doesn't tie anything up. If anything, that's even worse, because it isn't even the writer just making a bad ending. It's the writer making NO ending, throwing his hands up and saying "well just fill it in yourself based on these general ideas." I concede that you could make the game make sense in that case, but you could just as easily have it make no sense since everything is left up to interpretation and two players will have two different headcanon endings.

And as for the unrelated Bookers, its a similar issue that basically every multiverse-story ever suffers from.
>This world is awful and under a dictatorship and we must struggle to free it!
>>Yeah but there's a parallel world where everything is awesome and billions of people live free.

It basically significantly lowers the threat and consequences of failure, because even if the entire world exploded and everyone on it died, there is still a perfectly happy world with tons of similar-versioned people living on it being not-dead existing right next door.

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>All of those youtube comments calling it a "masterpiece" and proves "videogames are art".

>>383342170
when booker when through the lighthouse in the end, which represents mutiverse intersections, where choices create new universes or collide, he already created the cause for his liz to not exist.
That is why the liz you see after he goes through is not our liz.
She already ceased to exist. Hence why it is a paradox because she helped to create the causes for her own non existence.
Which is what all the other lizes that were there were doing, by going to the lengths of not allowing comstock to be born.
our liz was born to booker
those liz were born to comstock.

>>383328086
it's a good game. lots of /v/ doesn't like how pretentious it gets in the end. plus the addition of being able to use the scope of the gun sort of moved away from what bioshocks' initial concept was, and what it wasn't.
Bioshock wasn't mean to be a shooter first. it was psychological survival-horror first, then shooter. infinite sort of felt like a shooter first, and the survival thing took a backseat; which pissed people off.

>>383342782
Wait a minute, that card...

>>383343118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg

>always a man, a lighthouse, a city
>Roland
>Gilead
>The Tower

huh...

>>383342280
>Bioshock Infinite had
>shock jockey traps
>devils kiss traps
>murder of crows traps
>possession of turrets, people or handymen/patriots
>possession traps
>bucking broco trap
>return to sender traps
>oil of floor to create fire traps
>water on floor to create electric traps
>fireworks to create explosive traps

Reposting
http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s3733057.htm

>>383343265
I don't know what's wrong with me, but it's been years since this meme and no matter how hard I try, I can still only hear "wee man that card"

>>383343417
It really doesn't sound like he says "remember."

>>383342280
>>383343335
ohh I forgot
>liz tears
>tesla coil
>flying machine gun mosquito
>patriots
>RPG flying machines
>decoys

>>383342770
I'll apologize on behalf of Levine for not showing infinite cutscenes of Booker drowning as Elizabeths dissapear to the tune of someone rubbing their face on a piano

About the loss of importance, its not about Elizabeth escaping Comstock or she would just fill a reality with her selves and not have to deal with anything. But it's not about surviving the world exploding, it's about making it impossible for the world to explode in the first place.
Although I get where you are coming from with it taking the edge out of suspense, which is why it's a good thing she only gets interdimensional travel in the final cutscene

>>383328086
>>383343118
another thing. the main character talking is a big deal too. I like the concept of the protag not talking, as it lets the player fill in plot, and not having it forced fed on a plate in front of them.
I'm sure it was impossible not to have a talking protag in infinite, but I still would've preferred them develop for a non-talking protag.

>>383343265
is it remember that card or wait a minute that card?

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>>383342236

Bioshock 2's story is a much tighter narrative, mainly because they didn't try to follow the original game with another OMG TWEEST near the end. It maintains the relevance of in-game utilities like the vita chamber and big daddy/little sister bond, going so far as to have the antagonist ultimately acknowledge and try to counter your ability to respawn, and using your choices to influence the daughter instead of shaping Delta's characterization.

All things considered it was a fine sequel to Bioshock, way more than Infinite ever fucking will be even with Levine shoving his waifu into the original setting. At the time of its release, its only major "flaws" were being a sequel to Bioshock and having online multiplayer...and the PC version being kinda shit, I suppose.

>>383342959
>>383342770
Actually listen to this guy instead of me this makes more sense than what I was thinking

>>383328086
>far too difficult with too little ammo combined with swarms of bullet sponging enemies
Just use you "plasmids" right...

>>383328086
Played it and hated the combat, the two weapon limit and the plot that confuses time travel with dimension hopping.The Eva wannabe ending is atrocious.

Here is a video by a potato luster explaing other reasons it sucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4

>>383342280
Bioshock 2 was probably the most disappointing sequel I've ever played.

It felt like the development team either was replaced, or producers stepped in and said "hey, we really liked what you did with bioshock, but do you want to make more money?" Then the devs went on to make it an action shooter with a multiplayer with a few cool big daddy tricks.

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>>383343335
>>383343586

>Separates elemental traps and environmental tools to pad the list.
>Both of which were in 2 as well.

Enjoy your whole three pieces of clothing with exciting modifications like +25% damage while skyhooking counterclockwise.

>>383344216
I keep calling it a fanfic because it was made by 2k Marin, a small offshoot of the company. Levine didn't even help in writing the story. That's why it's so forced

>>383343653
I'm afraid to say I just can't see where you stand in this. It's the writer's job to make a satisfying ending that ties everything up. If that can't be efficiently or effectively done/shown, then that's a failure on the writer's part for getting backed into a corner or lacking the creativity necessary to get his ideas across. I never once considered the ending at all symbolic, given that literally every other cutscene is completely literal and taken at face-value, and now considering the ending as 'metaphorical' is actually more rage-inducing than the simple shitty ending I thought it was before.

If you can reconcile the fact that Elizabeths somehow erased billions of timelines in the blink of an eye, that the existence of still billions of other timelines is unaffected and that your personal struggle amounts to absolutely nothing, I suppose you could find enjoyment in the story. I cannot.

Should I play Bioshock 1 if I've never played it?

It's been in my library for years but I never bothered to play it.

>>383338974
You're going to call BioShock 2's story bad, but then defend Infinite.

wew lad

>>383344437
There it is. We can go no further in Thai discussion. Goodbye anon.

>>383344560
yes. it's the best of the series and always will be. sci-fi horror survival at its finest.

>>383344565
>You're going to say "bio-cashgrab 2: electric bogaloo" is bad but defend an actual prequel
Well yes

>Infinite is a fantastic game
Fuck off

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>>383344734
Cheers mate.

Good talk, rare to find these days, have a lewd.

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>>383344356

Funny how the fanfic envisions Rapture ten years later with new characters and scenarios, while Ken Levine's official sequel is so hard-up for ideas that they have to warp you into the a starting area from the first game.

On the other hand, I guess that's better than what happens when he tried to write the Infinite DLC. The DLC that was so difficult to develop that they split one piece into two so they could fulfill the season pass.

>>383344892
>I'm going to defend an inferior game in all aspects because it follows an "overarching" plot in an extremely shallow way.

>>383328086
It is just a subpar on the rails "look at the set pieces" shooter smeared in a veneer of intellectual sophistication that obfuscates any initial criticism or complaint from the brain dead general public. The fact that it plays worse than its predecessors makes it even worse.

Bioshock Infinite is such a massive fucking turd, that if you've managed to swallow it whole, the only thing you'll have to say about is tantamount to spewing shit.

>>383333271
The DLC actually prove that it did nothing, because Booker's still exist.

What made even less sense is why they chose to kill booker THEN. It's entirely for "muh symbolism" and shit. Why not BEFORE the wounded knee massacre? I'd bet the Indians would appreciate that.

>>383345141
I'll take a piece of trash over a cashgrab if it comes to it.

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>>383345552
That might just be one of the only outright declarations of shit taste I have ever witnessed.

>>383345552
I am seriously having trouble wrapping my head around this post.

>>383345552

Bioshock 2 had a longer single-player mode, though. And the DLC was longer. And it had online play. It was arguably an unnecessary sequel but still turned out better than Infinite.

The only thing Infinite has going for it is waifu'ing Elizabeth, and I will admit the SFM porn almost makes up for how shit the game is.

>>383345853
Both are pretty bad but I'd sooner but a poorly made indie game than a COD, and not just because of the price difference. Its a matter of principle

>>383344560

You should play the infinitely better System Shock series instead.

>>383346036

Pretty sure the marketing budget for Bioshock Infinite was larger than the entirety of Bioshock 2's development/advertising budget. Plus the creator himself admitted to CoD'ing the gameplay up a bit, I mean look at the weapon limit and mandatory regen potion.

>>383345552
I hate you and everything you stand for.

>>383346264
That's because it was made by a small offshoot of the main company. Being poor doesn't excuse stealing from the first game

>>383347138
> stealing from the first game
What did he mean by this?

>>383346074
Looks good. How about I play System Shock and then Bioshock?

>>383347138

Most of the content was new, though, including the game engine and pretty much all the art assets since the game takes place a decade later where Rapture is in much worse shape.

>>383347302
I mean it steals the setting, enemies, plot elements, weapons, and pretty much character from Bioshock 1. Having a drill with cool tricks and louder walking doesn't really change the game

>>383347486
Do you have the faintest idea what a sequel is? Do you hate it when Toy Story 2 and 3 has the same toys?

>>383347398
a bit of warning, if you play System Shock 2 before Bioshock 1 it will ruin it since Bio is an inferior almost direct copy of SS2 down to the same plot twist repeated

if you go into Bio 1 blind and ignorant, you will enjoy it a lot more

>>383347740
I wouldn't if Pixar made it. But if 3 random employees took off and sold their fanfic as a legit sequel I would disapprove. Levine didn't even write 2, and that's the biggest red flag I can imagine.
If I wasn't clear enough before, the problem is that 2 is more or less the same in substance as 1, but releasing the same game twice is lazy

>>383347994

But anon they don't even have the same gameplay, and in some cases like hacking and enemy research that's a bonus towards Bioshock 2.

>>383347994
>but releasing the same game twice is lazy
But they didn't. The story, level design, and art was all different, not even mentioning the changes to game play and added enemies. Was it extremely similar to Bioshock 1? Yes. Was it really necessary to make? No. Is it a good game? Yes it is.

>I wouldn't if Pixar made it. But if 3 random employees took off and sold their fanfic as a legit sequel I would disapprove.
What does it matter as long as the quality is good? Quality is all that should matter. Are you telling me you would prefer A Pixar made Toy Story 2 even it was complete garbage compared to a fanic one that is a masterpiece?

>>383348258
>Don't even have the same gameplay.
For most of the game, that's false, and only a few things are changed.
But compared to how much infinite changed in terms of combat and gameplay its a pathetic rip off

>>383348397
I would. Stealing is stealing and people shouldn't get away with it

>>383348514

But anon Infinite stole Bioshock 2's weapon/plasmid dual wielding concept, and then forgot about the other stuff like weapon modding and alternate ammo.

>>383348617
Then there is nothing left to discuss if you are going to argue using feelings.

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>There's people literally defending the piece of crap that is Infinite right is this thread
And some faggots still deny the reddit raid