>Skill literally has nothing to do with it >You're

its fun

>Remind me why people like this shit again?
it's fun

What about the people who have a 80%+ winrate? are you saying that knowing how to properly time barrages, open and close airlocks, route power efficiently, and teleport at the right time isn't skill? git gud.

Normally I hate these kinds of games but after staying home a week depressed I played it so much I could beat normal most of the time. Unless you get fucked early by some kind of invasion force that kills of experienced crew, youre fine. The boss is piss easy if you use a bomb dropping weapon or rockets to knock of 3 of the weapons and have a defense bot against boarding drones (yes, they can shoot down boarding drones) and cloak I against power surge shots

I hate rng but this is an exception the game its that fun

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>>383264835
That sounds like something someone would said if they haven't gotten gud yet.

RNG can fuck you in the ass but if you know the game and play optimally you can win almost every time, even on hard. Git gud.

Source: beaten hard with every ship

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>>383265334
try it again on hard mode
boss has a slight change to it, can you spot it?

I love these kinds of games as casuls dont know how to manipulate risk/reward to favour you and they get buttmad on mexican goat milking forums.

>>383264931
>>383264962
>>383265573
>fun
Not an argument.

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>>383264835
>could git gud
>shitpost instead
ebin

>>383264835
>you can play anyway you want
>but you have to play one of three very specific ways to win
fuck rogue lites

>>383264835
I could beat this game on normal with the default ship 100% of the time. You get so much extra scrap, the entire game is piss easy apart from the last boss.

I enjoy games like these because game sense does matter however much you insist it doesn't

it's f-u-n

>>383265680
>>383265640
>>383264969
If the winrate isn't 100% with skilled play then it's not skilled play that makes you win. It's rng still. So basically, still a shit game.

>>383265836
The inner weapons are connected to the main hub? If thats the only change then it doesnt seem like that much of an issue. Dodging the bullet hell with cloak and being able to block all the boarding drones is a lot more important. Those boarding drones fuck up your hull and then kill all your precious experienced crew. Also you had to let 1 weapon survive to prevent the autopilot from using the weapons, so all in all you can only knock out one less weapon

>>383265857
>THIS GAME SUCKS, whatever I try I never make it even to the final level
>shows screenshot, is on level 5, still has only 1 shield layer

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>>383266195
>Implying it can't be a mixture of both skill and luck
>Thinking that these two things can't both be elements in a strategy based game
>Being this ignorant

>>383265962
>not a discussion
>argument
Your generic comeback doesn't work in every situation, you know?

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>>383266195
>I have to succeed at 100% of the things I do in order to feel good about myself

>>383266195
There's a guy with a 30+ win streak

>>383266197
a couple of strategies no longer work
1 you can only reduce the crew down to 1 crewmember on stage 1 and 2
2 crew can actually repair the inner weapons (and does so quite efficiently may I add)

having that triple missile launcher up and running for a significant portion of the game hurts, especially given your ship will be less powerful because hard mode hands out much less scrap

>>383266195
virtually every game in existence has some form of RNG

so I guess you literally do not enjoy playing games at all... guess that's appropriate for /v/

>>383265962
>you can't like something because it's fun
wat

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Post em

Why am I so bad at this game?

>>383264835
why do people gamble in Vegas?

>>383266975
how far do you usually get
what do you prioritize buying
do you understand the concept of alpha strike

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>>383266887
My ship record isn't that impressive but

>Most piloted evasions
>Jacob Keyes

>>383264835
I bought it at the summer sale, never played any roguelite/-like before. I think it's great fun, even though I suck massive dicks at it and haven't gotten longer than the third sector on Easy.

>>383267131
3rd galaxy
shields/power
no

Is two Flak 1 and a beam weapon the best way to win?
It's brought me the most wins and it's a pretty reliable route.
You can swap a Flak 1 with Burst Laser 2 or use a single Flak 2.
Pretty much guaranteed to get one of these variations in a playthrough.

>>383267286
;_;7

Roguelikes are about accurate threat assessment and aims by the player to minimize their exposure to risk. You will always be exposed to risk, its about minimizing it. If you successfully do that, you will find that you have the resources at your disposal to handle challenges you would otherwise think are insurmountable.
>Spider planet? Sounds too risky
>Ship with 4 shields and a regen and all you have are lasers? Maybe you should jump away
>Finishing a sector with 4+ fuel? Maybe you didn't explore it enough
>Finishing a sector with 3+ turns before the fleet catches you? Maybe you rushed that sector
>Oh snap killing a crew and not the ship gives you more scrap? Who would have figured that logical thing up.
>spec into boarding party plan with only slugs? Maybe thats an ill fit
>Raving madman event? Maybe you should treat him like a raving madman
>Keep getting hacked and its your only offensive room every time? Diversify your bonds nigga
>Never using hacking or cloak because its expensive? Maybe think about how strong it CAN be since its so expensive


ie, git gud.

>>383266887
>when you can't ever show your scores because your highest is a non victory and you can't beat that score whatever you try

the shame, it hurts

>>383267584
Flak 1 is the single most busted weapon in the game, if you have two of them you shouldn't lose any fight ever.

>>383264835
>Skill literally has nothing to do with it
But I'm more skilled than you if I finished it multiple times.

>>383266887
>Slug B win on hard is highest score
How?
The RNG gods must have smiled upon you in the first two sectors.

What is the most underrated upgrade and why is it level 2 piloting?
Blue events all day.

>>383264969

The luck is much more important than the skill. You can have the biggest skill in the game, but if the RNG hasn't provided you with enough resources/weapons, there are some ships you literally can't beat or encounters where you simply cant survive long enough

>>383267492
something a lot of people tend to do wrong is to fire weapons as soon as they are ready, when instead you want to properly time all your weapons

first ensure EMP weapons hit
then send in high shot count, low damage weapons (burst laser, flak )
and only after that follow up with the high damage weapons such as beam weaponry

and then let EVERYTHING recharge

what this does is ensure a maximum number of shields is down for your high damage weapons to hit, which is how you win fights

also try to prioritize which system you want out first.
Weapons is useful if you expect a long fight
Cockpit is useful if you can only barely penetrate shields (no cockpit equals 0% evasion)
Shields is useful if you can reliably disable the entire system (this allows your fast weapons to hit at any time)

other systems are virtually never worth hitting

also shields is a good strategy to upgrade first, power only needs upgrading if you are lacking in it for other purposes and even then you CAN deal with a power deficit by switching around systems. A common tactic is to simply turn off the oxygen during a fight and turn it on afterwards

>>383268348
what if the game hasn't given me any of those weapons because the RNG simply said no? :,)

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>>383268348

This is why I hate arguing with FTL fans.
They give you all these solutions but never mention that it's literally a random chance to get all the weapons they're talking about

>>383268952
this
how early are you supposed to get other weapons? I've only ever gotten to the third sector, but I've never ever gotten another weapon, and the buyable ones are way too expensive if I actually want to upgrade my ship

>>383266197
>Also you had to let 1 weapon survive to prevent the autopilot from using the weapons
Here's a funfact for you: AI ships (those with no crew) cannot repair breaches. Furthermore they cannot fix systems with breaches.

t. Autist who has played this way too many times

>>383269458
>I've only ever gotten to the third sector
oh shit nigger what are you doing?

>>383266195
Thats like saying all board games are shit games because you never know if you'll roll a 1 or a 6, or you'll never know what card you pull.

Random elements can still exists within a fun and well designed frame work.

retard

>>383269458
are you playing without pausing the game? shit is 10x times harder without pausing

>>383270024
does a breach disable the gun?

>>383270518
A breach will not disable the gun on its own, but if you destroy it and breach it, the ship cannot repair it.
So while the self-repairing is a threat, you can essentially cripple the whole thing minus the special attacks and there's nothing it can do.

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>>383266887
ez game

>>383270205
dunno, fucking around while trying to learn the mechanics
I've only played a few hours though

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>>383266887

>>383269458
I've had weapons handed to me in the first sector before, either by random event or as a quest/battle reward

it'll click and you'll get that one run where you fucking EVISCERATE everything and then every run after that will be attempting to recreate that success

>>383267637
>FTL
>Roguelike
STOP

>>383264835
Why do people gamble?

>>383271046
For a chance of easy money

>>383264835
Skills in RNG games is rng prevention you fucking mongoloid

>>383269376
those were all example weapons
and the chance that you don't get any form of weapons what so ever other than gimmicks is astronomically low

>>383271502
>skill in painting
>wow I should prevent applying some paint
You are really weird in your head.

>>383273015
top kek what a great analogy and not retarded at all.

>>383273169
here's a better one

food is like dlc

>>383273169
>>383271502
how fat are you, virgin? I bet your b.o. makes other people physically cringe.

How come all the alien races in this game look fucking retarded?

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>>383266195
>"MUH RNG" excuse
git gud nigga

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>>383264835
>tfw can't beat this game on hard

>>383270654
according to the definition, it is

>>383277182
It's OK, Anon.
At least you're a cute little anime girl.

>>383264835
skill has everything to do with it. RNG determines if you CAN win, not if you WILL. and you CAN win most of the time (only if you get very unlucky eg. lots of gunship+hazard killsectors and bad loot)

>>383264835
>Sequel never.

>>383265836
I love this game and have never complained about the rng and have won many games on normal and hard but I still think to this day its bullshit that you cant stop the power surge attacks. Especially in phase 2 where its have cloak or even with 50% dodge you get fucked most of the time.

>>383265962
>fun is a buzzword
here we go again

>>383277735
Look at Rogue, Nethack, DCSS then look at FTL. Compare mechanics. FTL has slight similarity at best.

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Before anyone asks, the huge gap between games played and games won is because of restart spamming to get the optimal start for unlocking the crystal cruiser pre advanced edition update.

300 hours, vanilla, advanced, and modded games combined stats.

>Hard mode just turns the RNG up to eleven and makes getting upgrades almost impossible
This is really lazy.

>>383264835
I mean, RNG is a big part of it, like I wish shops had more consistency of what they are selling, but saying you don't need to strategize anything is flat out wrong, you can get pretty far even if you are dealt a bad hand.

>Can't beat the game on easy

Off to Issac it is then. The items will hide my lack of skill.

>>383280758
They are doing a game about mechs.

>>383264835
There is a lot of way to minimize or completely counter rng, the only really rng thing that comes to my mind is evading projectiles which sometimes really fucks you over.

>miss 5 shots on their weapons system in a row
>die from getting shot for 5 rotations without being able to retaliate


wow i guess i need to get more skilled

>>383264931
The only thing that really matters is if a game is considered "Fun" by consumers. This an economic argument which underpins the game industry. Now go to hell autist,

This is literally RNG:The Game in SPACE™. Yes it was interesting after a few runs but after that it's just autistic.

>>383264835
>have 90% evade when cloaked
>a stray missile still hits my ship
and at that point i uninstalled the game

>>383266307
>2017
>not going by the "new shield layer for every 2/3 sectors" rule of thumb

>>383282459
>b b b but muh risk management!
>why didnt you prepare for 100 misses!!
shit game

>>383266195
How do explain somebody winning despite having bad luck and constently landing close to suns then?

>>383265857
>manipulate risk/reward as well as you possibly can
>still lose
This is why people get mad.
>inb4 but lol u cud do betr!

isn't rng part of the fun though? You guys really want a game you can always win? I love games like Space Station 1 because the only fixed variable is how much chaos there will be. You might die 2 seconds into the round or be the last to escape, but one thing is for sure, you wouldn't have been able to predict what was going to happen.

That's what makes it interesting for me. Surviving as best as you can and then dying in a funny or cool way IS what's fun to me.

>>383266195
Does anyone have a 100% win rate in any game?

>>383283360
Depends what ship.
>play stealth b
>first ship has mini beam + 1 beam drone

>>383283320
FTL has a low skill cap. If it were fair it would have to require more skill or tactics, but as it is pretty shallow it has to rely on RNG to be exciting. Good games have depth and you lose because you haven't mastered the mechanics, not because the game rolled the wrong number for you.

>>383264835
That's the same shit argument people use to excuse being shit at xcom. Especially when they say crap like "I HAD A 90% TO DODGE. HOW COULD I POSSIBLY EVER BE HIT?"
Yes, RNG is a factor but skilled play will heavily tilt everything in your favor.

The simple fact that some players consistently do significantly better than others should show that it's not just NRG

>>383284514
There is no skill involvde in this game. You can literally just click random things to click and you will win solely on RNG.

>>383284514
Explain how skilled play will prevent getting hit by a missile at 90% dodge.

>>383283662
but it's more realistic though. life will fuck you over sometimes. not to say the game shouldnt give you at least an opportunity to prevent this but you know

>>383284884
It may be realistic but it isn't fun or well designed.

>>383284852
By realising that you can still get hit and activating their cloak which they saved scrap for and boifht to be able to go above 100% evasion?

>>383264835
>Skill literally has nothing to do with it

Watch LethalFrag and tell me the reason he can beat the game 90% of the time

>>383284514
XCOM you can manage risk effectively. Soldier missed a shot? You planned for it and didn't move him int a compromising position and had a backup to make a second shot.
FTL you miss, you wait until you shoot again and hope it doesn't miss. FTL RNG doesn't promote skilled play or good tactics, it is only there to pad a shitty game which requires no skill and minimal thinking.

>>383285316
Cheat Engine.

>>383265962
It's a game, you flailing faggot. If it's not fun or at least enjoyable in some way, it's shit.

>>383266195
Why in the fuck would I want to play a game that I was guaranteed to win 100% of the time?

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>>383266887
hard is too hard but normal is too easy

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It's a once a playthrough situation that you honestly lose a party member with ZERO input happening on your end. You literally have the option to walk away from nearly every situation that puts you and your party members at the mercy of the RNG.
Other than that the RNG either ends in a combat situation or not a combat situation which is determined entirely by ability.

OP is a retard and anybody who shares his bad ideas about FTL lacking player input is retarded too.

>>383281406
That's why it's called a rogue-LIKE

>>383285745
No that's why it's a rogue-lite.

Managing the RNG chaos isn't considered a skill of it's own?

I'm sorry you were spaced anon.

>>383285430
>FTL you miss, you wait until you shoot again and hope it doesn't miss.
Literally every RPG ever and yet RPG threads aren't filled with bads jumping down players throats insisting that the game killed them and that they dont suck at it.

>>383285870

>>383285430

In one run, I made it further in the game by just clicking random things.

>>383285805
I hate this term. The whole point of inventing that term was to differentiate games that aren't Rogue or roguelikes. So we coin a term that still implies it's related to Rogue?

>>383285934
RPG which can't miss are carryovers from tabletop games. You actually do get a lot of complaints about crits and missing from people who don't play old RPG's often. Just look at Morrowind threads.

>>383285948

>>383285934

>>383266195
>if the winrate isn't 100% with skilled play
it is, you're just a scrub

>>383286031
It's because alot of games use roguelike as a buzzword simply because they have permadeath. Just look as BoI, Nuclear Throne, Enter the Gungeon, Darkest Dungeon, Sunless Sea. None are roguelike but all claim to be.

>>383286374
I get that, I just don't understand why the term invented to distinguish the games in your post from actual roguelikes still implies that they're somehow related to Rogue.

>>383265962
this was never a debate
this was simply the answer to a question

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>>383265962
>not an argument
That isn't a rebuttal, go suck more molymeme cock and die faggot

why is PUBG the best selling game on steam week after week?

why is space station 13 still populated by hundreds 10 years later?

There's obviously a matter of taste here, but the thrill of RNG, one you can learn to adapt to, can be a great mechanic.

>>383286454
Because "real" roguelikes are a pretty big yet unpopular genre. They are all basically rogue with a different name and a slight coat of paint, a couple of new mechanics etc. It's like calling Mario a Metroidvania because there is platforming and you "explore" levels.

>>383286715
Because they require skill. FTL doesn't.

babby's first indie rogue-like
Its main problem is how perfectionist it is to win the game even if RNG is going to fuck that over. You're only ever going to win if you're lucky with getting the enough scrap for the upgrades you need or the weapons you *might* get.

>>383282947
you only remember the one that hit you, never the 90% that you dodged prior.

>>383286853
but the skill is to understand that there's a high chance to get fucked and play accordingly. You will maximize your dodge to prevent bullshit missiles for example. That is the skill, you manage risk, without ever being able to eliminate it. Focusing on upgrading your shield to level 2-3 lets you not worry so much about lasers, etc.

>>383285934
Missing (heh) the point. Missing in RPGs usually promotes a mechanic or playstyle. For example, you miss more with larger weapons so it forces you to level the skill or use smaller weapons.
FTL missing has NO purpose other than to pad the difficult of an easy game, you cannot affect it and there are no tactics around it.

>>383287054
That's not skill. That means you enjoy getting fucked over again and again with or without your help, thought, etc.

If you enjoy heavy RNG games then fine that's on you but calling the RNG in FTL as skill is idiotic. Or just play real casino games, instead of getting fucked with your time, you'll get fucked for your cash but that 1 win though right?

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>>383265962
>ask a question
>get an answer
>"I don't accept the answer"
What the fuck do you want, then?

>>383287416
>there's rng in the game so it's like playing slot machines

You can't work the machine to give you better odds. This is what I'm talking about here. You minimze the risk/probabilities of getting fucked.

The Binding of Isaac is like that too. You might get an easy as fuck run, or a really hard run, but both will be fun because you have to try and work with what you're given. Will you lose because of bullshit rng? Obviously. Doesnt make the game badly designed unless you're extremely risk averse.

>>383266815
No, you can't just say a game is fun without elaborating because that doesn't explain shit as to why it's fun or good

>>383287708
>You minimze the risk/probabilities of getting fucked.
The only way you can minimize this is by not playing.
>The Binding of Isaac
The hardest run I encountered playing that game can still be overcome by skill. You can't do that in FTL.

>>383287708
Binding of Isaac is ultimately decided by the player's skill. A skilled player can beat the game with despite bad items as they are good at dodging and shooting.
FTL if you miss it doesn't matter, there's little you can do to influence it and little you can do in response to it. You simply wait to shoot again. There is little thinking and zero skill involved.

>>383287647
>ask question
>get unsatisfactory answer which explains nothing
>?????

>>383287970
that's granularity of difficulty though

those shit runs where you get nothing in isaac are virtually impossible for 95% of players or make the game excessively tedious.

Meanwhile on a shit FTL run you just straight up lose and start over. I'd rather have that personally although you're right that you can't always avoid it. But this brings me back to the element of realism where things in life don't always work your way and it can make for an interesting run even when you don't win unless you want to minmax.

Here's a quick guide to whether a game is RNG or not

>Is there randomness that determines if the action you're trying to perform fails? Randomness for things unrelated to your actions like map generation, player starting positions, etc are irrelevant.
>If you could always perform your actions 100% of the time does the game fall apart?

If the game falls apart when the player can actually do what they want there's a good chance the game is RNG bullshit. The RNG is a bandaid to make the game unpredictable and force the player into making choices they normally wouldn't. Ideally a strategy game should create situations where the player's choice of actions are varied even if they can perform them 100% of the time. It's on a spectrum though, there can be a little RNG bullshit but if the game can still create the situations mentioned above without requiring an action to fail the game might not be trash.

>>383270024
>You can breach the ship to stop repairs
Fuck me, what I loved about FTL was all the different methods you could use to get around the "RNG" and damage control situations, the fact that there's still shit out there like this I never discovered makes me want to pick it up again

>>383288503
You'd prefer to lose by RNG than use your skill and mastery over the mechanics to win. Seriously?

If skill doesn't matter then every player should have the same experience. Yet some people can win every other game and some can go 100 before even seeing the final boss.

>>383288453
There's nothing else to it. We can rave about the flaws and successes until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day people play and will continue to play it because it's simple fun

>>383289038
Ship repairing isn't RNG though

>>383289038
>get around the "RNG"
>breach
>Breach Missiles
>Fires 1 missile at 4 damage, with low chance of fire and high chance of breach
>chance of breach

>>383289230
I'm just not autistic enough to warrant the practice required to master the binding of isaac.

Like I said, preferences for different risk profiles.

In my view it's too simplistic to say "you can't win 100% of the time so it's a badly designed game". Sometimes losing the game can be entertaining. Now before you call me a cuck, understand I'm talking about hilarious friendly fire, overly brutal deaths, engaging experiences where stress is high and you might make it by a hair. It's stuff like your friend getting pulled by a smoker and punched down a building to his death in left4dead.

>>383289381
People enjoy things for reasons. Just saying "lol its fun" doesn't explain the reason why you find it fun. This is what the "not an argument" guy meant.

>>383264835
Some people like dealing with chaos.

>>383289382
>>383289481
I'm speaking about the game in general, and referring to ways in which you can damage control situations and mitigate risk, as there's methods out there to do so that I still haven't personally discovered, silly anons

People who throw a fit about rng in non pvp games are kind of stupid. Games like this are more about risk mitigation and making the best use of what the game gives you. Good players have very high win rates so skill is still a factor.

>>383264835
That's kind of the point with rogue-likes, they are based on having different experiences each time and lots of replayability.

>>383289767
Sure losing can be fun but I personally feel only when deserved or it just deflates the experience. In BoI you lose because you weren't good enough to deal with the poor items. FTL you lose because you missed 4 times in a row.

>>383290481

>>383270654

>>383264835
Sounds like real life.

>>383290654
Right. Well I think we made our points.

Strangely, I feel tons of Board Games have that "bad" RNG. Sure there's strategy but say a game like the huge Game of thrones strategy game. I feel it's very well designed, mostly because you never know what the next round will be like. It's rng in the sense that there's no way in hell you can tell what people will do. There's no pure random, but it's still excessively chaotic and someone might win purely because some move wasn't anticipated or one card turned the tables inf avor of an unexpected player.

>>383290472
In FTL there is little risk management. Thats the point. No one complains that XCOM is unfair because there are plenty of ways to work with the RNG.

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>tfw 2 vulcan

>>383291009
I guess my only problem is that people claim that FTL is fair. The RNG is unfair but it can still be fun.

>>383287087
>burst laser/flak/combat drones instead of putting your entire faith in that one big missile hitting
>beams
>hacking module on pilot or engines
>teleport competent ayys and smash pilot or engines room before firing

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How does this image make you feel?

>>383292683
Stealth was a mistake.
Challenge ship done right is Slug B.

>>383264835
it's fun when you manage to pull through the shitty hand that RNG deals you

Overcoming those odds feels fucking fantastic but sometimes it just ain't enough. That's why it's fun to people.

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>by definition roguelite
>is all about managing risk
>by definition rng generated runs

My god, I never thought RGN was involved!

>>383281406
i suppose New Vegas is not an RPG since it looks nothing like Final Fantasy

>>383287860
It just means he picked it up and kept his interest. He probably didn't mind replaying due to RNG because he looked forward to the next run