How do we fix the MMO genre? Is it forever doomed to be a skilless,

It's already fixed, play Black Dessert.

>>383149231
>BDO
that game might as well be single player

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>>383149231
You can get the full black desert experience just by going to google images and searching, black desert waifus

>>383149023
pretty much until internet speeds overall becomes spectacularly good and peoples ping from all over becomes borderline negligible

>>383149231
Unironically one of the worst mmos out there right now.

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>>383149023
You don't fix it. You either hate MMOs or love MMOs. Tired of people wanting to change a genre because they don't like the core systems. All MMOs are MUDs at their very essence. If you hate combat logs, very mechanical gameplay, and stats mattering more than player skill then go play a MOBA.

>>383149231
Black Desert is too easy. It's also a fucking economic nightmare.

>>383149750
Issue is, pretty much nobody likes the current core systems. Even people who still play MMOs regularly say so.

It's as if FPS gaming had never evolved past Unreal Tournament and every FPS was still an an arcade, arena shooter. That's the state of MMOs.

Only a very, very small part of players actually enjoy the core systems still, and I'd wager most of those is because they didn't play a lot of MMOs before.

>>383149023
Player made factions
Player housing/house building/town building
Quests players can give to other players
PvP system / bounty hunting mechanic
Character customization

These are all features that are icing on a cake, though. As to the core gameplay there isn't really much that can be done unless you start mixing in elements from other genres.

>>383149956
>pretty much nobody likes the current core systems
that's subjective, not objective. unless you got statistics to prove it. people seem to love it if WoW still got hundreds of thousands of active players both of retail and private servers.

remove level cap

>>383149023
Chronicals of Elyria sounds promising.
Kind of like a sandbox MMO.
>They will fuck it up, right?

>>383150582
it'll be dead after 6 months assuming it ever leaves early access

If you make an MMO, don't have a forum. It will just attract MMO shitters who hop on everything before moving on like locusts. They'll force the devs to shit the game up.

>where is my progress?
>i play 150 hours per week why can this guy who only plays 3 hours have nice stuff?
>i'm in an elite guild so i'm better and deserve the best stuff
>everyone who isn't me is overpowered

Just make the game according to your own vision.

>>383149316
>>383149514
>>383149680
>>383149775
>wow-babbys who didn't even get to node wars
The MMO genre wont be fixed ever, because of these faggots right here.

WoW-babbys who haven't played an MMO before 2004.

>>383149023
MMOs are getting better, eventually an action combat MMO with good balance and lots of content will come.

>>383150582
chronicles of elyria is full of highly unrealistic molyneux promises

when it comes out it'll either be fable (really good without any of the extraneous nonsense features added in that never really made sense)

or no man's sky (without any features and shitty)

>>383149750
>Unironically posting XIV and saying MMOs are fine

You need to be over 18 to post on this board.

Blizzard saw the success of EQ and thought, "What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?".

Blizzard then released World of Warcraft to great success enticing people who normally couldn't dedicate enough time to MMOs before it.

The issue here is that World of Warcraft broke all the rules of what makes MMOs MMOs.
>No need for player interaction
>Extensive use of built-in fast travel (not player run)
>No penalty upon dying
>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
And it only got worse from there as the game went on..
>Cross server content
>Dungeon finder
>Portals in every major city to every major city
>Flying mounts

WoW turned modern "MMOs" into Facebook/MSN/Myspace.

Now every other AAA publisher saw what Blizzard did and wanted to make a quick buck as well. So for the next 10 years we got these HUGE budget WoW clones expecting to build up the same subscription numbers as Blizzard. Well it turns out that the target audience wasn't as big as these companies expected and almost every single one of these games crashed and burned.

Meanwhile anyone still playing MMOs before WoW are growing up. They don't have 8 hours a day to put into FFXI/EQ/DaoC/etc. They start playing WoW/WoW-clones as well. Younger people have no idea what MMOs were before WoW and play WoW-clones as their "first" MMOs.

We'll never get another true AAA MMO, but that's okay. There are some niche games coming from veteran developers who worked on the classics. Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, etc. And bigger publishers are starting to get more experimental, but unfortunately still playing it too safe with how casual the games are. We should be happy with that. In the meanwhile, private servers like project99 are extremely populated and great fun.

It could be a while, but there'll be a return of true MMOs.

>>383149023
All those lights and rainbows, it's like a groovy disco.

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>How do we fix the MMO genre?
By removing the endgame

>>383150287
>Character customization
This can actually end up watering down the game. Being able to gauge what a player is likely doing and their relative wealth and experience based on what they have equipped is incredibly valuable.

>>383151138
>>No need for player interaction
>>Extensive use of built-in fast travel (not player run)
>>No penalty upon dying
>>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
>And it only got worse from there as the game went on..
>>Cross server content
>>Dungeon finder
>>Portals in every major city to every major city
>>Flying mounts
These are all good things.

>>383150923
Just because something trys something different, doesn't make it good for being different.
BDO is pretty shit filled with the worst korean gear grinding i've ever scene in a game thats solely gear dependant. The only fun to be had in BDO is to push afk fishing people onto boats, sail out to sea and push them off.

>>383151340
This is an MMO thread bud. I think you're looking for single player games. Check out the new Mario games.

>>383151452
MMO doesn't mean you have to interact with people, it means the servers are populated with actual live characters and not just NPCs.

Some people think you have to invest 40+ hours per week in to an MMO to be good, or they derive their self-worth from how much gold they have or how many shiny rare items are on their avatar, how how they were one of the first people to complete a dungeon as part of an elitist guild of similar people.

Some people don't.

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Is the director of FFXIV correct designing his MMO like this?

>>383151708
yes. MMOs shouldn't be a second job.

>>383151613
It sounds like MMOs just aren't for you man, sorry.

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>>383149023
Black Desert online thread.

>>383151708
No because the game has a fucking mandatory subscription fee.

>>383152003
no ones forcing you to pay for the fee every single month to keep up with players

>>383149023
Since most peoples fond memories about older MMO's that in reality were generally shit or flawed in huge ways, like Vanilla WoW or Star Wars: Galaxies were mostly about player interaction and "the community", make the game force players to have to team up to overcome most of the content.

- No global market/Auction house
- No Party/Raid finder
- Player Towns/cities
- Let players play non-combat roles like in SW:G
- Make places in towns/cities where people can just hang out during down-time with their friends/guild

>>383151851
But I could play WoW and enjoy it. I play Star Trek Online and enjoy it.

Your elitist mindset is abnormal. If you love competition and bragging, why not compete in real life? Train for the olympics.

Perhaps you feel like sinking dozens of hours of playtime per week is some big achievement because you don't want to admit that real life achievements are hard work.

>>383151067

Most FFXIV players are in their late twenties to early thirties. You are the one who is underage. Remove yourself.

>>383151708

EVE take notes

>>383149023

You already posted the fix. FFXIV is skill-based, competitive, strategic and extremely feature-rich.

>>383152067
I'm not surprised you play the most casual MMOs ever made. It's great they have a nice carebear themepark out there for everyone.

That doesn't stop MMOs from being what they are. That doesn't make all the MMOs leading up to WoW great role playing experiences with great communities and player content.

Unfortunately you can't take that away from us. I'm so sorry man. I really wish you didn't miss it, but hey what can you do when you were born in 2001 and your first MMO was WoW, you know?

Enjoy your "MMOs" :^)

>>383149023
>How do we fix the MMO genre?
Games like PS2 and PUBG are much better, and yes I'm aware they aren't what you're talking about. But they do big online so much better. Traditional MMOs have been dead in the water for a long time and for good reason.

>>383149023
is that everquest next?

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>shit game
>shit people playing it
>shit company running it
>last expansion sold like shit
>shit shit
Sage

>>383152305
>That doesn't make all the MMOs leading up to WoW great role playing experiences with great communities and player content.
If you're going to work online as a hobby, why not just work in real life in a real job to earn real money?

>>383152101
Hey man, thanks for replying to my post!

That's an interesting statistic. Would you be willing to share your source? From my research the average player age is 14.

>>383152358
>how do we fix the MMO genre
>by ignoring it entirely and playing something else
good post anon, real quality contribution

>>383152429
I know it's really difficult to understand as a 12 year old, but I'll try my best.

You see most people, even us "hardcore" old school MMO players, still go to work and are successful in real life as at home playing games in our leisure time.

It's difficult to understand since for you, a 12 year old, the idea of being not shit at something is really new and scary, but it's possible! Just try your hardest and you'll get there one day.

Or don't and just continue being bad at everything you do and play :)

>>383152610
Yes, that is in fact the best solution. Traditional MMOs have had ~20 years to evolve and they have only gone backwards in many ways since UO or not made much progress from that.

>>383152401
t. bdo shill

>mfw even pewdiepie loves black desert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ-E-CIjiTI

What are the secrets for being a good AST?
From what I've seen/heard you should be fine just putting regen on tank and going to town with damage, but if I try that, by the time I'm done with one Gravity, tank is almost dead and I'm spamming Benefics in panic.

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>>383152705
>"hardcore" old school MMO players

>>383149750
This. You either like Themepark MMOs or not. Sandboxes are extinct and early access scams that never get completed.

>>383149023
The core strengrh of the mmorpg genre is its ability to foster communities and create tangible worlds for players to function in. People who honestly push skill in mmos usually just couldnt handle it in games that actually require skill with high learning curves. This doesnt mean that contebt shpuld not be satisfying to the player but it should be secondary to facillitating community building and dynamic relationships among players, aka backstabbing and the general drama between guilds.

Modern mmos are entirely objective focused and 'skill' driven which is why they are so bland. The lack of content comes from rigid games that focus only on one thing: get to instanced endgame. We've practically gone back 10 years in terms of mechanics and the games reflect this. Games like city of heroes/eve and to a lesser extent champions online to me really capture the strength of the genre. They are simply tools to give the player agency in the world and craft their own part in it. They arent played because of another dynamic tedancing team dungeon but because players are crafting their own stories and experiences within them.

The sooner that Mmos can realize this, that the endgame is not as important as player dynamics and moment to moment connections, the sooner they'll be good. Its hard to discuss this of course because the genre is full of wowtards that are unable to know anything beyond the train track.

>>383149023
>forever doomed to be a skilless, uncompetitive, button mashing, contentless grindfest?
Therein lies the problem, MMOs need to be hard as fuck to encourage and force people to cooperate.

Look at FFXI, it was hard as fucking balls and released in 2002 and still going to this day (well its on its deathbed now) not to mention being Square-Enix's highest profiting game.

>>383153006
but City of Heroes had an amazing endgame once they got around to implementing it, and you could solo 90% of the content

>>383153163
tedious does not equal hard. FFXI was the epitome of tedium. Grinding mobs in the overworld for 8 hours because there was no quests or better way to get EXP, you de-level if you die even if it wasn't your fault (tank pulled to much mobs, or server lags because NA/EU play on the same Japanese datacenter)

>>383151708
MMOs should be able to be the sole game you play. Every second you waste not playing it is money thrown down the drain.

>>383153163
>MMOs need to be hard as fuck to encourage and force people to cooperate
Wrong

>>383153386
FFXI never lagged unless it was a serious server issue at the time.

The game was designed to be played on PS2 so the packet size was extremely small. The latency was very low no matter where you were.

FFXI was difficult in the fact that you needed to know a lot about your job and role to exceed. You needed to know about what you were fighting, how to fight it, etc.

Anything that takes a long time is described as difficult. They're completely correlated.

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>>383153389
Japanese players hate it.

>>383153389
If I wanted to play a singleplayer game I'd just play a singleplayer game.

>>383153561
FFXI would lag or disconnect you if the route your ISP takes to Japan was down for any reason. Gaming VPNs were popular during that time.

>>383153006
anon I think you need to take off the rose-tinted glasses, because City of Heroes was almost entirely instanced, from 1-50

>>383153579
>Radiant Historia 3DS
whaaaaaaaaaaat

>>383153579
doesn't count PSN digital sales or any PC sales at all

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>>383153890

>>383149956
>It's as if FPS gaming had never evolved past

Unreal Tournament and every FPS was still an an arcade, arena shooter. That's the state of MMOs.
That's a poor comparison, since UT and other arena shooters are good. It's definitely true that the genre "evolved" by having other types of games, more variety is good, but the arena shooter type was and still is great. MMO mechanics are just shit. It's not just a matter of a lack of variety, the current model is inherently just bad.

>>383149750
Okay but the people who love MMOs have shit taste. Also
>MOBA
>skill
Well, technically you're right. MOBAS do take skill, just not the kind you seem to be talking about.

>>383153640
But anon, you literally have to complete group content to progress in the main story

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>>383154004

>>383153703
You dont understand, being instanced isnt the problem. City of heroes was great because you could cultivate your own character the way you wanted to and create their own story. This added with the build potential you had and the rp potential of he game kept it around for that long. Did you think guilds stayed around for the masterful design of coh instances?

MMOs are alright now, but they'll be perfect once Sword Art Online is a real game.

Runescape is a pretty good MMORPG. Jagex has been making some pretty bad design decisions these last few updates; but they've recently recognized their mistakes in a dev blog post and are going to correct their posture.

>>383153389
Why would I listen to what game reviewers have to say about MMOs? Those retards can barely wrap their minds around 2 hour single-player "games".

>>383154072
Aw I expected a screenshot from square enix twitter about how many copies the expansion sold... LOL

all 2 of them

>>383154181
TWO
YEARS

>>383152705
You're a faggot. Enjoy being a minority.

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FFXI > FFXIV

MMOs are basically timesink quests for bigger particle effects. Since by necessity the challenges scale at a constant rate to your level, the only thing that actually changes over all that progression is how ridiculous your abilities look when you use them.

Additionally, if you take the particle effects away, players would be able to see clearly what they already know: that even the biggest raid is just a jumble of stuttering sprites waiting to either win or die.

Lots of RPGs are like this, but lots of RPGs offer other things, like story or setting or a sense of personal satisfaction at simply influencing the game world. These elements, if present at all, are weak in MMOs. What MMOs offer that other games don't is community and continuity and persistence. That's why people choose to play them instead of games that are better games. So rather than trying to 'fix' the mechanics or gameplay of MMOs, developers should focus on more social-media integration, mobile and AR features to blur the line between playing and not playing, because 'playing' is honestly the last thing anybody thinks of when it comes to WoW-type MMOs.

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>>383154004
Meanwhile in reality.

>>383149231
>have a fancy "high action" combat system with bunch of skills
>the first 50 hours is just holding LMB to kill everything in 1,5 seconds
Woooooow

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>>383150407

The only legit answer. I've been playing MMO's since 1997. Trust me, the level cap is a fundamental source of virtually anything that goes wrong in any MMO.

>>383153386
>Grinding mobs in the overworld for 8 hours because there was no quests or better way to get EXP
You're making it sound like grinding mobs was literally the only thing in the game to do, yes in the early days it was simple (JP early days, there was shitloads of content by US release) but the world was dripping with content which you NEEDED other people to play with. Of course you could do things by yourself at great effort, but why the fuck would you bother playing an MMO if you didn't want to play with others.

Part of the skill involved is in organizing the groups that you need to do things, and in carrying the people who aren't great.

If it seems like a no-skill button mashing grindfest to you, you are one of the cats being herded.

>>383151138
>WoW
>completely soloable
Uh-huh.

>>383153494
what's the difference between a 15$ sub and a 15$ game every month?

>tfw I literally cannot get into SB

The story is shit so far at 66, and I feel like nothing has changed whatsoever.

I don't know what I expected.

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>>383154570
xD

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>How do we fix the MMO genre?

Most MMORPGS are Android tier Skinner Boxers - they are essentially just Cookie Clicker games with a few bells and whistles attached.

There needs to be a sense of risk, investment and loss. When you die, you should loose all your items and equipment. Eve Online gets this right, I wonder why other MMORPGS don't copy this. It's fun shipping loads of valuable cargo around, knowing that pirates can bust your ass anytime. Or setup camps to grief others. Also, players should be able to own and control most aspects of the world.

>>383152401
>cerberus player detected

>>383152705
reddit spacing

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>>383154370
>Shitnose
>240p next-gen graffics
>2 hour cooldowns
>Shit customization
>Losing levels when you get killed
>Need a PF just to level up

>>383154683
never play an mmo or xpac at release, wait a few patches so you get more content for a less money

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Lineage 1 is the 2nd most proftiable mmo in world.
Blade and Soul is the 3rd.

>>383151708
Considering he's basically saying you shouldn't have to dedicate incredibly amounts of time to be competitive, yes he is totally correct.

I already have a job, I shouldn't need to treat games as one too.

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>>383154694
>critics and players agree that FFXIV today is better than WoW today
>"xD check out muh subs!!"

If we're going by your measure, LoL is the best video game in the world because it has more players than WoW.

>>383154954
>WarCraft

>>383149023
Get rid of the hotbar style gameplay and stop relying on zooming out the camera to actually function in raids/dungeons. Focus on an immersive play-run world with good gameplay

>>383149023
Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, Wildwest Online and Star Citizen will save the mmo genre.

>>383150407
I would prefer removing leveling

>>383154683
This.

I played for part of HW before my friends all quit. All came back for SB, and most of them are already gone.

SB is literally more of the same. Nothing has changed whatsoever.

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>>383155041

>>383155142
I played for part of WoD before my friends all quit. All came back for Legion, and most of them are already gone.

Legion is literally more of the same. Nothing has changed whatsoever.

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>>383149023
I have yet to find a community, either in the whoel game - let alone the server, that matched Pre Crusade WoW

I really only play these games to play with cool people and have fun

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>>383155162

>>383154647
So gear treadmill's not enough for ya
You need a level treadmill on top of it all

>>383155162
>FFXIV merges servers in Korea
>Meanwhile WoW merges servers worldwide
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Connected_Realms

>>383151340
>>No need for player interaction in a multiplayer game
meaning that it's just always online DRM essentially
>No penalty upon dying
meaning that you don't even have to try particularly hard since you have no penalty for failing
>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
so you can watch TV and eat a sandwich while playing

oh yeah, sounds great if you hate video games.

>>383155316
Most ffxiv servers are dead, same on ffxi.

They refuse to do merges on both games out of shame.

I hate MMOs, but I love FFXIV's boss fights.
I want a game that's all those and nothing else, like Monster Hunter but with a huge amount of skills, distinctive classes and roles, and intricate jump-the-rope mechanics

>>383150287
EVE has a lot of these. I think people make the mistake of assuming that since EVE is a niche game that these are niche features, because what makes EVE niche is not even the data but the relative impracticability of ERP.

In all seriousness though, I think that these features demand a bit more responsibility and brains than most MMO userbases can count on. Any player freedoms are prone to game-breaking abuse. The clever bit about EVE is that player abuse is a driving feature.

>>383155296

What the fuck does that even mean?

>>383155316
FUCKING

DELET

THIS

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Black Desert Online, the best cats.

>>383155487
>Most ffxiv servers are dead
wrong.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/80cd4583bf743600105b947d6906d0909189e479

>>383149023
Revamped, modernised, more stylised Space Cowboy Online.

>>383155652
>bless has great grafix but the actual gameplay is so shit it even died in korea

why can nobody get it right

>>383155162
>>383155262

FF14 had to add MORE servers in the west for this expansion, and the new servers became congested within a week. Oh, and every existing server is also congested.

MMOs adding more servers 7 years into their life is literally unprecedented. But THAT's how successful this game is.

>Hah, I bet there are only like a dozen servers though

Wrong, there are 54 servers, not counting China or Korea.

>>383149023
MMOs are only as good as their community.
All MMO communities are dogshit so MMOs are objective garbage.

>>383155487

Nearly every western FF14 server is so full there are queues to get in despite there being room for 10000+ players on each at the same time.

Try again retard.

So, if I were to try the test run of WoW what class could give me best experience of the game with it's 20 level limit?

>>383154756
>I wonder why other MMORPGS don't copy this
Might have something to do with the fact that EVE isn't exactly printing out money compared to stuff like WoW.

>>383156262

A FF14 class.

>>383149023
this looks fun

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>>383155963
>lazypeon said the combat is shit so it must be
Other way around. It's dying because no one can fucking run it.

also
>using my pic
DMCA filled. cops called.

>>383155839
That proves nothing, lots of us have played ffxiv and know most of the servers are dead.

Most posting here either play the game or have in the past, they know there are only a handful of "busy" servers.

They could merge 3/4 of the servers tomorrow if they didn't want to lose face.

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>it's the BDO and GW2 drone again on his personal crusade against FFXIV

I'm getting the feeling you're that autistic nep guy Yoshi-P called fat at a cosplay show a few years back, you made very similar posts back then too.

Just bought stormblood.

Coming back to cozy Eorzea

>>383156253
how mad are dragoon players right now?

>>383156118
This sadly

>>383156379
>lots of us have played ffxiv and know most of the servers are dead.
unless you play on mateus, literally every server has a queue to log in during peak hours.
what dead ass server do you play on

>>ff14
>unlock level 32 or 34 dungeon
>from now on there's always some guy whining about his class
>"I NEED TO LEVEL X BECAUSE I NEED ITS LEVEL 33+ CROSS CLASS ACTION"
>they are level 35-40
>let them know they already met the level
>"FUCK YOU MAN YOU DONT KNOW ME"
I used to see way too many lancers saying this garbage, late I realized I should not bother with random players

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>>383156409
BDO is the best mmo right now FOR ME TO POOP ON

>>383156737
cross class actions were removed weeks ago bruh

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>>383156817
>final fantasy
>no cross class action/skills
Why is it even called FF anymore?

>>383154417
>There is no change in difficulty or complexity between low level collect-10-bear-asses quests and high-level raiding
wut

>>383156409
they're just mad that GW2 and BDO general on /vg/ is dead and no one /v/ discusses them to the bump limit like FFXIV threads.

>>383156898
you have cross role actions now instead of cross class. read the patch notes you illiterate nigga.

>>383156662
Even Mateus has queues now

Small ones, but they're there

>>383153389
they probably didn't even finish the game, just played a few hours
>the warrior of light who has slayed countless primals
>constantly overshadowed by Lyse who every scene is just MUH ALA MHIGANS MUH FREEDOM MUH RESISTANCE
>she becomes the main focus of the story while you're just a second thought
>just about every major cutscene is "remember that time Lyse came in and saved you?"
>try and queue for a dungeon
>everyone and their mother is SAM and RDM now
>selling tank and healer queue only 1 million :^)
>dungeons are still a forced part of the story
>swimming is essentially useless and only plays a part in one zone, everywhere else all you can do is float cant dive in old zones
>they only just now got rid of instances of zones that prevented you from playing with friends
>end content right now is 3 primals and 3 dungeons, hard modes still aren't out
even WoW at least releases the hard modes of dungeons with the expansion along with the max level only dungeons

>fuck yeah, an mmo that is actually challenging!
>oh shit wait, we didn't actually want that
mmos are bad because the people who play them are bad.

>>383157701
Wildstar in a nutshell.

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>>383157701
forgot muh pic

>>383157753
muh nigga

>>383156379

I don't think you quite understand what the new expansion did for the game, anon.

>>383157563
The first raids came out on Tuesday

Just play MapleStory

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>>383156536
A bit

>>383157701
>an mmo that is actually challenging!
Is there such thing anymore? For nearly a decade (or probably more) the only challenging part is partying up with good players.

>>383154954
LoL and WoT aren't MMOs

>>383157860

Only the easy mode.

>>383157802
Wildstar would have been so much more fun if they just fixed the problems
>open beta
>hey guys this quest cant be completed
>no problem we'll fix it!
>wow they're really on their game!
skip to launch day
>same quest still broken
>are you guys gonna fix it anytime soon?
fast forward a few months game is almost dead
>we are proud to announce we've fixed the major bugs that have been there since beta you've been telling us about

>>383156536
A little bit less angry than MCH players

>>383157563
>>constantly overshadowed by Lyse who every scene is just MUH ALA MHIGANS MUH FREEDOM MUH RESISTANCE
>>she becomes the main focus of the story while you're just a second thought
>>just about every major cutscene is "remember that time Lyse came in and saved you?"

This is simply not true you bandwaggoning faggot. I don't like Lyse because she's boring but she never steals your thunder and is not the focus of the expansion at all.

>>383158170
b-but millions of people play it on daily basis

>>383157990
Wildstar still can be despite the power creep. In some fights it's even a bad thing.
>do skullcano
>so overgeared phases are overlapping
>get blinded during the part you have jump over lasers
>everyone dies

Nerf SAM and RDM a little bit. There, all perfectly balanced (aside some shitty new job mechanics and MCH of course).

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The answer lies in making the content outside of the gameplay better. TSW is a pretty cookie cutter MMO in how it plays, but it is absolutely unrivaled in quest design. No title comes even close to it in that department.

That being said however, there really isn't a way to make the core gameplay loop of MMOs any better without straying away from what the genre is about. You can't make a completely player-skill driven combat system because that undermines the RPG aspect and you can't (or you can, but it will only appeal to a very niche market) make a completely character-skill driven game either, because that undermines the player's role.

>>383158254
mch was never pure dps. dragoon literally got downgraded to being a shitty support/dps class.

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>>383149750
>skill
>MOBA.

>>383158307
I remember trying to play W*S but many animations were wonky or broken (as in many didn't loop properly), do you know if they fixed them?

>>383151708
Yeah if you're playing wow themepark-like garbage like FFXIV

>>383158240
I firmly believe that Wildstar would be one of the top contenders in the genre if they completely slashed the first 20 levels or so from the game, during which the story content is whimsical bullshit and you are just grinding monotonously through quests and getting your skills.

Because that is why most people quit the game. The Borderlands tier humor that the game exhibits early on and the abysmal leveling experience.

Hell, I think if Wildstar characters were created at max level, that would be even better.

>>383158505
>as in many didn't loop properly
Care to give an example? because I never heard of that.
>I firmly believe that Wildstar would be one of the top contenders in the genre if they completely slashed the first 20 levels or so from the game
Or if they had just waited until drop 4 to release the game.

>>383158404
Only the Investigation missions are anything special, everything else is pretty standard MMO fare

>>383158445
True, but MCH got nothing that helps with support 60-70 and got a glorified emote as their final ability. They have both garbage dps and support when compared to BRD and on top of that the overheat mechanic can easily fuck you up.

>>383158445
>nerf MCH DPS to the point that it's by far the weakest DPS
>but also nerf it's utility to the point where there is literally no reason not to pick almost anything else
>to top it off make it complicated as fuck to play with several extremely unfun mechanics that force you to look at your skillbar 99% of the fight

Genius.

>>383149231

>Grind simulator.

It's a fun single player "mmo" until you play it for about 30 hours or so and the flashy combat and grind gets boring as fuck.

>>383149956
I wish we stayed on arena shooters, the cowadooty era is not an improvement

>>383158835
Sure, the tasks themselves often are. But they have actual, voice acted cutscenes that precede them. It gives even the most basic "Kill 10 enemies" quests, if nothing else, an illusion of legitimacy.

And sabotage missions are pretty great too.

>>383159125
you just described ff14

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>wildstar releases and completely shits the bed
>year later
>hey everyone, we fixed most the problems you had with the game
>we don't care. we've all already moved on to playing other mmos
>o-ok. what if we went f2p?
>well in that case sure, I'll try it again
>server shitting themselves for a week
>ok, we fixed the servers so everyone can play now
>oh what? nah. we all fucked off back to other mmos
rip wildstar

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What happened?

>>383158279
How can you say that?
>lyse made the resistance leader
>lyse takes down Fordola and takes her prisoner
>lyse is the one at the end cutscene and the main focus while you stand at her side
>lyse is the focus after the warrior of light slays Lakshmi and gives that speech about them not needing to worship a primal

the only zone she wasn't the hero was Ruby Sea and even then it was still
>we have to get these pirates to join our cause! muh ala mighans!
>lyse runs away
>next quest go comfort lyse

the entire story revolves around her and she constantly steals your thunder, hell you get beat by Zenos twice even though you've slayed primals before

>>383159580
cash grab

copy/paste job of 2008 themepark mmo

unfinished/too hard for the average mmo player

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obligatory baguette post

>>383156927
idk about BDO but the only reason the GW2 one is dead is some fag with a spambot ruins every thread

>Muh skills
>muh competition
Fuck you, I came back from an all nighter at work and I just want to pretend fish, maybe beat up that dragon again. I don't want to twitch click all my fucking free time so I can feel good about beating a korean kid halfway across the world.

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>>383159580

>>383160171
Happens in the WoW threads too. Majority of posts you see are spam and are posted every single thread for some reason. Always the same green text stories with the same image and filename. Mods don't even care.

Of course the only reason xivg reaches limit is waifu posting4

>>383149023
Let it die...

>>383160371
>>>/r/eddit

>>383159248
So does SWTOR

>>383159413
Man, Wildstar webms always look so fucking cool.

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>>383160597
apologize!

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uhh guys wtf

I thought stormblood was 9/10?

>>383160835
At least you can see what's going on, unlike ff14 ones

>>383160920
>watching other people play MMOs
Literally for what purpose

>>383160723
Thats unfortunate, I checked and its pretty much the same situation in the BDO general. The GW2 bot just scrapes off of other boards and forums IIRC, so im honestly just holding out for the owner to stop or for the bot to scrape porn or some illegal content or something and get itself banned

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>>383160842

>>383160802
Doesn't SWTOR drop that quickly after the beginning planets? That's what I remember when I played the game back in its beta phases. Though admittedly, much has probably changed since those times.

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>>383160920
>basing twitch views on popularity and game quality

>>383160842
that neck tho

>>383161397
Nope. Every quest in the game has a Mass Effect-style dialogue before and after

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>>383160597
She got updated about a month later. Bigger tits too

>>383161284
Even if they do ban the bot, it's super easy for them to ban evade. Restart your router, use a VPN, etc.

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>>383161104
There are people who unironically like to do that.
Not exactly MMO but a friend's dad got himself a PS4 to spectate randoms play overwatch, then later he learned about twitch and he enjoys watching people play OW on his free time. I don't know any other people doing this but I would not be surprised if there were other people doing the same with other games or genres.

>>383155104
This guy gets it

>>383155104
I would prefer removing combat

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>>383161540
Depends on the caster imho.

>>383149750
No, even the state of "theme park" MMOs is definitely worse than they used to be. FFXIV is good example of a current MMO that pales in comparison to its predecessor.

>>383149023
kill everyone who has ever played WoW and launch a new game with the gower brothers of runescape fame as lead game and quest design.

>>383160597
it's always fun when the developers are limited to the engine

>All my friends are on XIV since Stormblood just launched
>Got two characters to 70 and geared in Susano and Lakshmi in a week and now just waiting on relevant content like Omega savage
>Still waiting on things like Aquapolis, POTD 2.0, Diadem 3.0, and anything else
>Nothing but timers and waiting

Its wearing on me because even though WoW is RNG at least they give you stuff to work toward at all times. Not sure if the grass is greener, seeing as people from both sides wish they had things from the other title. Right now this just isnt doing it for me though.

>>383160920
>he arrived

Nice thread guys, bye.

>>383161519
MUCH better

>>383161820
FFXIV is better than FFXI though. Critics agree.

>>383159589
Like I said, simply not true. You're overreacting.

>>383162713
I can bet you whatever you want they say that only because it's not an hybrid mess of turn based combat.

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>>383162713
>it holds my hand and lets me teleport everywhere and i dont have to talk to people and there are lockouts so those mean elitists cant outgear me so that means it's better

>>383162019
>Wildstar apologists

that's fucking amazing m8

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>>383161519
>WildStar has cartoonish proportions for most of the women (Mechari especially)
>People complain they're too cartoonish and overblown and demand they be toned down
>Carbine reduces bust size
>Temporarily
>A little while later, they revert to regular size and offer options to make them EVEN BIGGER

>>383154272
Fuck off wowbaby your MMO is shit and XIV is the better choice

>>383162315
I play both though I take XIV much more casually. Still looking for a static that doesn't conflict with my WoW raid times but I'm not too worried about clearing savage since I did it back in HW with pugs when I had to.

>>383162771
Don't have to overreact, Lyse does that for you every cutscene.

>>383154683
>>383154915
>>383155142
is the WoW defense force here already? shits only 2 weeks old and you fuckers are already done with the thousands of hours worth of content?

>>383149023
Dark Souls like mmo without chat system.

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WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T XIV HAVE A BST YET

WHY DID WE GET WEEABOO SHIT LIKE SAM AND NIN BEFORE BST. THE GAME HAS SO MANY GOOD ENEMY MODELS BUT THEY'RE ALL JUST GOING TO WASTE

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>383163363
What the fuck are you even talking about?
Are you a bot whose algorithm started malfunctioning?

>>383163432
Dark Souls online is garbage with it's few people at time system. As a mmo it would be unplayable. Even more so than it already is.

>>383152871
Isn't EvE still going fairly strong?

>>383161519
M-MOMMY

>>383163637
didn't it also go f2p?

>>383163637
It still has a dedicated following, but they had to go F2P just to keep people interested. It's slowly being killed off by Star Citizen.

>>383163759
Oh right I forget that f2p means kill.

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Lineage up until Interlude is the best MMO ever created. A huge number of people playing it even today via private servers proves this. wowbabies need not reply

FFXIV is probably my favorite FF. I'm not sure a single player FF can ever compete with finding the perfect fit in a community. I will forever remember the early days of TF2 and the server I played on as the best FPS experience and with private servers being a thing of the past I don't think anything can overtake that.

>>383164570
I really love FFXIV but you sound like a huge faggot.

>>383163621
play 3 online is fine a massive world would work because DaS has rich lore for a big world.

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>>383156102
They couldn't possibly be using cheap servers though, right anon?

>>383149750
>moba
>skill

Mire like russian roulette. Evry game you play it at champ select and team mates composition.

Mobas are literally the gerne for people who enjoy humiliation.

Camelot Unchained lads, that will be what makes pvp/sandbox MMOs great again.

>>383165574
Doesn't matter, his point still stands because that could be true for other MMOs as well.

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We don't.

>>383165742
He's trying to make it seem like an accomplishment when it's the exact opposite. It's a self-manufactured "problem" that they "fixed" so they could use it as a keynote to appeal to investors who don't know any better.

>>383165592
MOBAs are meant to be played with premade parties, not with random people. Why do you think the genre is so popular as a esport

>>383156329

EVE's problem is that it is not intuitive or easy to get into. That turns a lot of people off.

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>>383166234
Yeah, SE is known for smart business decisions that nobody has ever done before.

>>383166762
>Why do you think the genre is so popular as a esport

Because it got pushed by the Twitch and Youtube cancer community back when they weren't as costly.

>>383166234
>game had no issues regarding congestion before
>new expansion comes out
>suddenly servers are getting fuck hammered by people logging in and wowfags ddosing it
>adding more servers to alleviate the problem
>suddenly /v/ thinks this is bad

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>Sword maiden on Veteran
>Stuck on the First Boss because of rng spawns
After the first boss it's actually pretty fun fight

>>383168679
There were issues at launch of the game, as well as in launch of Heavensward.

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The only way to fix it would be to use the flashy thing from Men in Black on everyone so they could forget it all and start from the beginning.
That's because the problem with a typical MMO is that you've solved it before you even start playing.
You already know you're going to talk to quest givers, go to a region, kill an arbitrary amount of enemies, and then turn in the quest for XP and maybe some items. You already know you're going to have a selection of direct and AOE attacks on your hot bar and that you're going to have an optimized "rotation" to get the highest DPS or healing. You already know you're going to be grinding enemies so you can get drops.
Obviously you can apply to this to any genre, but with MMOs it exists on every level. You know how combat will work. You know how exploration will work. You know how loot will work. You know how trading will work. You know how dungeons will work. You already know how to optimize and manage all of these before you ever start playing. You can assume more about an MMO based on it's genre than any other game.
The only thing that made MMOs interesting in the first place was the mystery and that goes away after you finish one or two, so it's fucked. Especially when devs have responded to this by making their games even more transparent and meta than ever before.
So there's no saving MMOs. If they ever die it's going to be in the same and for the same reasons that point and click adventures did.

>>383162315
>>Got two characters to 70 and geared in Susano and Lakshmi in a week
how fucking much do you people play that you can get to 70 twice in a week
The people who go "oh my god I already did everythiiiiing" are autists who play the game 24/7 and 100 hours a week

>>383169314
It's pathetically easy to get to level 70. Try actually fucking playing the game more than an hour a day.

>>383169314
I barely play 2 to 3 hours a day and got SCH, SAM, BTN and MIN to 70.

>>383168836
launch of ARR sure, but Heavensward has no issues whatsoever at launch

>>383169741
Maybe you were on a dead server because I remember the queues and 9k strikes and the memes that followed.

>>383170048
the only servers with queues were balmung/gilgamesh if you played on north american servers.

>>383169640
2 to 3 hours a day for a single game is pretty significant investment.

>>383168158
What the hell are you talking about? Black Desert pulled the same stunt just last year and Blizzard does this with nearly every expansion pack. It's a great PR move by a company for easy publicity "wow guys there's so many people playing we need to add even MORE servers!" and then two months later they're fucking ghost towns and get merged within six months. Remember how it was with Cataclysm?

>>383168679
>suddenly /v/ thinks this is bad
>suddenly
>/v/
I, for one, have always supported fewer, but better servers (ideally one mega-server) over lots of shitty ones that people inevitably pick a leader amongst and congregate to anyway.

>>383170151
Its really not. You can hold down a full time job and social life with that.

>>383170151
Ahahahahaha jesus christ is this what /v/ has become?

>>383170151
Nigger my father is a 55-years old IT project manager and he easily spends that much time daily playing HoMM 3 and WoW. If he can then so can you.

>>383170481
mega servers are fucking awful going by history of mmos

>>383173637
I've never played with mega servers, what's wrong with them? The idea sounds good to me.