Why is every game made in this engine a buggy, unoptimized

Because it's "easy" to develop for, meaning less people to pay and a mediocre product gets put on the shelf quicker.

Crash trilogy would've been 100x better even with UE4.

>>383094272
It's not that buggy. it's just easy. UE4 is pretty easy to get a tech demo going in but harder to use.

>>383094272
its easy to use so shit devs get lazy and don't optimize their shit the way they should.

It also lacks some obvious optimizations.

Because it lets anybody make games, so anybody does.

Because c++ > c# for game development

See Rimworld, Hearthstone, Kerbal Space Program (64 bit). Those run great.

>>383097541
This
It's not the engine's fault, it's the devs' fault
Unity being so accessible just tends to attract a lot of people who don't really understand how to optimize a game

>>383094272
Mostly because it's easy to get into. It's not that the engine doesn't give the developer the ability or anything. Most of the devs who use it don't know what any of that shit means. It's basically developers who make "babbies first game" and have no idea why it doesn't work on other machines because "well, it works on my machine."

>>383097172
this. People complain about difficulty with c++ but you know what, that just keeps the keklords and shitters out. You shouldn't be developing software if you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

>just an ideas guy that forces himself to learn multiple trades to see a fraction of his dream take form
IM FUCKIN SORRY MAN I'M NOT A CS ENGINEER I DON'T KNOW HOW THE FUCK TO OPTIMIZE RUNTIMES OR DO SHIT LIKE THAT I JUST WANNA SEE MY GAME

Some questions have no clear, defined answers, anon.

How high is the sky? How deep is the ocean? Who is John Galt?

>>383100637
See
>>383097781
>>383099951

>>383097541
Wrong on hearthstone, I like the game but it's a fucking playable demo patched out to keep it from falling apart and dying.
Every single thing they add is awfully implemented and breaks a thousand unrelated things because of how poorly coded the game is thanks to the visual scripting plugin they used.

>>383101463
And don't even get me started on the mobile port.

>>383101463
I hate to be the guy that says "works for me xd" but I have no problems with HS. Can you elaborate your point, though? You seem to have looked into this before.

>>383094564

N.Same Trilogy is not in Unity or UE4. It's the same engine used for Skylanders, whatever it is.

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>>383101698
It's not a matter of performance, the game runs at 60 fps on most devices but still gets stuck when opening the collection or changing pages for the first time since booting, it can also get stuck on loading when going into spectator mode or reconnecting to a game. Card placement in the hand or board can bug out (specially during discard or draw effects) and they already admitted that they can't fix it.
The visual scripting plugin they used to make the game (which was supposed to be only a playable demo to show to blizzard's higher ups) also handicaps them because they can't implement drastic changes to the core game design (see their implementation of new features, everything adds up on top of what's already there, they can't rearrange things without having to start from scratch).

>>383102760
It just sounds like a Honda Civic that's just being held together with stitch welds and duct tape that someone added a bolt on turbo to.

Where did you find this all out? I didn't know about all this.

>>383103291
I've developed a few small games using the same plugin (playmaker) and if I remember correctly the entire development process of hearthstone is well documented online and on youtube. The dev team also made some videos where they show off concept art, board designs and some gameplay of the first demos

>>383100860
To Mister Anon
Anonymous User
4chan forum
Video Games Board - /v/

Dear Anon,

From orders of the Chief Prosecutor, I send you this reply, for better understanding and action, according to this post with a randomized ID, in reference to post 383100860, which I believe was made by you.

It's about trying to clarify that the two posts you mentioned - 383097781 and 383099951 - are not clear answers to the questions posed. Allow me to remind you of the question:

......How high is the sky? How deep is the ocean? Who is John Galt?.....

Until you can find an answer to the question above, please do not fucking talk shit again faggotot

>>383094272
Part of it is the number of amateur devs using it.

There's also just the fact that it's a middleware engine, and even talented devs don't have low level access to modify the engine.
KSP is a good example, it's impressive the game works as well as it does, given all the workarounds they had to employ due to their inability to modify the engine to suit their game design.

The upside of course is that the Unity team handling all the engine code takes a lot of work off the developer and makes it easier/cheaper for indies to get their games out.

>>383102052
I swear I read somewhere it was made in Unity. Guess I was wrong. Whoops.

>>383094564
>implying the same thing wouldn't happen
it would

>>383094272
The engine is a weird mess.
It's very, very easy to have something "running" on it, but the standard settings are bad, and it goes very, very indepth, allowing you to control shit like render stages, write your own shaders etc..
Basically it hands most of the actual optimization on the hand of the developer.

And when your developer is a san fran hipster instead of someone that actually knows how 3D graphics works, you get what you get.

>>383097172
To be fair with the unity, you don't actually run anything that requires C++ speed on the C#.
It's all script shit that only runs once per frame, instead of the insane megabyte tier data processing.

>>383094272
Because it has a better interface and is more accessible than its competitors (namely UE4). People who don't understand memory management and update calls get their hands on it, and they make absolute garbage games.

It's the curse of the successful

>>383094272

Is it even worth using Unity or even Unreal if you just want to make a 2D game

>>383097172

What about Objective C?

The only main difference is certain aspects using Java style over C++ and not having operator overloading

>>383109353
Only if you really really want to rush it to the market.
Otherwise, using C/C++ with SDL and Open GL is very easy.
Actually with C/C++ you can download libraries to do your everything, from loading pictures, to drawing guis, to playing several audio formats, from even physics etc..
And still get a much smaller and faster binary than using unity/UE4.

>>383110048

What's a good C++ program, and how do i use SDL and Open GL with it?

I got Visual Studio 2015

>>383110048
How difficult is it to port to different platforms, including consoles as well as different PC OS?

>>383110313
Just use an engine that is less bloated than Unity or Unreal. For example, Gamemaker or Godot.

>>383110313
The Visual C++ compiler is good enough, specially given its very good debugging capabilities.
SDL, Open GL etc are libraries, and there are tutorials on the internet that teach how to setup your project to use with em, its quite easy.

>>383110551
If you're using SDL as i suggested, its quite easy, because they ported this library to pretty much everything.
It's how you get ScummVM running on all those platforms.
By my experience, you will only find differences when you get to need a high precision timer or network.

>>383094272
Listen fag. I hate Unity with a passion because of the lame ass material systems, and I will always use UE4 because of C++ to begin with anyway. But Unity is a good engine due to its accessibility, community, and databases for knowledge (tutorials, documentation, etc). The only reason games lag in Unity and UE are because of developers who can't optimize worth shit. They go in thinking they'll optimize after everythings done, but you should be building it from the ground up with optimization in mind. Anytime you see a game lagging in these engines, it's because of incompetence, not because of the engine.

>>383110313

You don't have to use C++ itself

just use a game engine with C++

Gamemaker is a really good one

>>383110981
The unity material system can be improved with things like the amplify.

>>383110313
Dont listen to the "make ur own engine" fags. It is not worth it for most users, and you will actually be able to make a game instead of having to make an engine first, and then making your game.

Since there isnt a thread already

We might as well turn this into a game dev thread

WHATCHA MAKIN

>>383111189
>>383111312
It's not a HUGE entry barrier when talking about 2D graphics.
As i pointed out, you can download a bunch of libraries.
You don't really "make your own engine", you just download libraries until they do it for you.

seriously why do all my fans go nuts on unity game title screens

>>383111362
Made my own auto landscape material which automaticly textures my landscapes so i dont have to use layer masks. and no, i didnt copy nodes, i made it from scratch. Get around 190fps with three auto layers and a paint layer, 182 with two paint layers. sorry for no pics.

>>383111409
>downloading libraries when you can just use gamemaker, unreal, or C++
If you're worrying about royalties/fees don't even bother trying, because in reality these fees are minimal for the amount of support and ease of access to create games they offer. I will agree though, it's not as if you're coding the engine from scratch. But it's really only worth it to do if an engine already out there doesn't have what you're looking for, or if it's going to be a learning experience, which in that case, I highly recommend creating your own engine for the knowledge. But if you're making a game there is no point unless you fall inside the 0.01% category of a preexisting engine not being suitable for your needs, not when we have source code now.

>>383111679
Sometimes the "ease of game creation" that those engines offer just get in the way, with just the thing you want being occluded away on some bizarre hidden class.
But a big point for em that i have to point out is generally having an integrated level editor.
Making level editors is fucking boring.

>>383101463
Unity isn't to blame. Hearthstone is made with the plug-in Playmaker.

Source, I have a friend who works at blizzard.

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>>383111362
Working on a sudoku game, but you play on the surface of a cube. Might also add a minesweeper mode for fun.

Project scope is really small, so I should finish by the end of this month.

>>383109502
>What about Objective C?

That language exists solely as an error of development.

Apple added some basic objective stuff to C, abandoned it the moment C++ came out because it was infinitely better.
However, they fired that one famous guy in the meantime and he brought a bunch of Obj C programmers with himself.
These people kept working in Obj C.
Once they brought them back in, re-schooling them to use the better language would have been too expensive and that's why the original iPhone uses Obj C.

A language is as good as its compiler. Considering C# has the whole Microshit behind it whereas Obj. C hasn't ever been properly maintained in forever and a half.
I mean, it probably comes down to real benchmarks but I'd be willing to bet C# beats it out in everything that does account for the VM starting up.

>>383094272
Easy to use so it attracts a lot of shitty devs
The engine is fine, it's just most people that use it are incompetent

>>383111869
I'll be real with you, I probably couldn't make an engine as I wouldn't have the patience, or even knowledge. But from what I do know with C++, it is way easier to use UE4 and I even made my own plugin for 360 displacement in the engine. In reality, learning an engine with extensive documentation will help you succeed, and it only takes a couple of weeks to get used to C++ integration, and a couple of months to be intermediate if you do it daily. But to each their own, seems like you're just going to have to make your own engine, and if you get enjoyment/success out of that then that's even better. I just notice a lot of people spewing that making your own engine is professional tier, when A, AA, and AAA companies are utilizing these free engines because it means less workloads on the developer. Unless you can make your own inhouse, like Dice (even though a guy actually sold them the engine), there is not a huge point to it.

But like I said, you do you, friend.

>>383111679

I know some guys who use game maker, but they are also experimenting with making an engine

mostly because they want to be working at actual game companies and having "Programmed in Game maker/RPG Maker" on your resume is pretty pathetic

>>383111362
Nothing. Is there a good standalone C++ compiler for Windows? I don't want to install the entire Visual Studio just to get a C++ compiler. I also don't want to install cygwin or mingw. I just want a C++ compiler I can invoke from the Command Prompt.

>>383109502

>objective C

Sure if you want to make a fucking game on Iphone/Ipad

>>383112485
It's not pathetic if it's competent. However if all they're making games for is to work at a game company, creating an engine will not hurt your resume.

>>383111362
tactical turnbased rpg without the grids

>>383112397
If you're thinking on 3D games, pretty much UE4/Unity are the way to go.
Too much math bullshit and physics and model importing and animation system...
But for simple 2D stuff, it's not even close the level of difficulty, at a point i think it might worth using raw C.

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>too dumb to learn easy mode Unity C#
>coded game maker when I was 10

I fucking hate living, so many ideas and I cant even learn basic shit on here.

>>383111189
Since when did GM support C++

>>383113350
Yeah I can agree 100% with that.

>>383113381
It's called not procrastinating you dumb dog.

Is it worth using RPG Maker?

Im thinking about making it a detective game and not using the turn based function at all or making the turn based battles something else entirely

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>>383113570
you say that like anybody has the ability to code an entire engine from scratch

>>383112640
Why not mingw?

>>383113494

Gamemaker's coding is an almost exact replica of C++

>>383114069

What drugs you on?
Most coding are the same, C++ uses libraries and source codes, that's the main advantage

>>383094272
Superhot was made with unity though

>>383114069
I'm not sure whether you've never used C++ or you've never used GML

>>383094272
because every single game today is an unoptimized buggy piece of shit. it's not even engine based anymore, it's just shitty developers.

>Following tutorials
>Feels like I'm just copypasting everything they tell me to
People come up with shit I never would've dreamed of coming up with, I tried going to a blank slate and seeing what I could build from memory, couldn't remember how to do nearly anything.

>>383113601
No, RPG Maker is total shit. The only good thing about it is the plethora of Japanese porn games made with it.

>>383114540
>I tried going to a blank slate and seeing what I could build from memory, couldn't remember how to do nearly anything.
This isn't how it's supposed to work. You'll have to look up almost everything you do for a while, but the longer you work at it the less often it happens.

There's almost never a point where you don't look anything up ever. You can't be a walking dictionary of every engine and library you ever work in.

>>383114540
You need to improve your "coming up with your own shit" skills.
It's not about memorizing stuff, but asking your brain to come with a solution in code and having it delivered to you.

it's the rpg maker engine of 3D gaming

it's garbage

>>383114540
See
>>383114723
Like he says, don't feel bad about following tutorials as they are a stepping stone to becoming just as good as those you learn from, if not better. Just don't only copy and try to problem solve as much as you can, as it will help you flourish so you don't need to only copy tutorials to get anything done in the future.

>>383114540

Your not expected to come up with something special

Everybody looks up things to make their own and build off that

>>383114934
>your

>>383114812
that isn't as damning of a comparison as you think, given RPGmaker's whole schtick is that it's only useful for making RPGs (and even then it's so limited) but saying it's RPGmaker but for all genres makes no sense and invalidates the comparison altogether

>>383094564
Also they have a shit ton of documentation and education resources so its a good way to get new developers learning and making games

>>383094564
Exactly that, it's just too easy. Anon here mentioned legit teams that pay for lesser devs, but there's also shitton of single young devs doing stuff completely alone on unity + all those Chinese spammers that fill steam with shovelware, making like 10 ""games"" a day (that are basically the same game with different free assets they found online).

All the above creates an ocean of shit games made with unity and give the notion that unity sucks.

Tbh I worked with unity and it's pretty decent. There are some bugs with physics and the graphics are not as flexible as I expected. But overall it's decent and in the right hands it can be a good game engine.

>>383094272
>Why is every game made in this engine a buggy, unoptimized piece of shit?

Shovelware Merchants gonna Shovelware, they always have. Free middleware solutions only make their "jobs" easier, and who's gonna step up to the thankless task of filtering ambush-marketed garbage from 'serious' product?

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Creating LOD models, carefully placing objects to improve occlusion culling, batching materials and textures, that's all really time-consuming stuff, and many indie devs don't bother. Some don't even know basic Unity shit like adjusting the poly count of terrain and the kinds of objects reflected by water. And Unity is the engine of choice for indie devs.

Plus a lot of them are ports of mobile games (or at least made by former mobile devs), which usually means bad controls and a gaudy, plasticky look.

>>383113227
Do remember to add a function to draw a ruler from a point to another point. Or at least a distance readout at the cursor.

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>>383114540
Yo shit anon maybe I can tell you a bit about my personal experience and how I got started (i'm still a beginner though).

Essentially the way I did things is I sat down and ignored the tutorials. I dicked around, brute forcing myself through making a bunch of really simple shit, looking through the documentation for the simplest of functions and then applying them in different ways. You start to build up a sort of 'library' in your head of what the different things do and how they can work, and you get to a point where you say 'I want to do X thing, I think I can make it work by using X and Y thing I learned before'.

Look EVERYTHING up that you're having trouble with, but don't blindly copy it and close the window. Look at it, read it, and try and understand to the best of your ability what it does. Tutorials are immensely helpful, but I wouldn't recommend following the copy paste route. Give yourself projects that increase in difficulty (not huge leaps) that basically force you to try new things. For my first project I made a pong clone, that taught me basic shit like drawing numbers on the screen, keeping track of variables, a win lose state, simple collisions, etc etc. Next game I made was a short platformer with 5 or so levels and different traps and variables. Just think what kind of systems you need to learn next, and how they could aid your knowledge, and then think of a game that fits that description where you'll be learning almost entirely new things.

It's really something I hope you learn to figure out, and keep working and trying new things with it, anon. It's been a lot of fun teaching myself and looking for help when I need it, and the satisfaction when you can sort of sit there and theorize what you need to type to make the code work is great. Game maker is a really easy program to start learning.

This is just my not very valuable advice though.

>>383114540
What sort of tutorials do you follow? I'd like to learn programming too.

Megaman Battle network grid system except the distance is a lot smaller so you can actually move around properly

You choose special moves you want to be using and then Action scene starts where it's up to you to make combos and effectively use your special moves

>>383116162
Tutorials are very helpful, I mean to say.

Just make sure you LEARN what you're seeing from the videos or explanations.

>>383114790
>>383114887
>>383116162
Yeah, I probably should start making shit games at my pleb level just to personalize it all, though I was hoping to get a better starting point before embarrassing myself. I do read the code I'm given, and can get the jist of it. But like I said I wouldn't have come up with any of it myself.

>>383116192
I did some basic stuff on some learning website for the structure of code, what functions, variables, classes etc are. I don't remember what the name of it was though. I ended up guessing an email to login, like [email protected] with abc as the password. But after that I'm doing the unity tutorials on their site. I wouldn't know if this is the best way to proceed though. But that's what I've been doing, I did take an actual programming course awhile back in high school, but it was absolutely forgettable, it may have helped me subconsciously learn better now, but I sure didn't consciously gain anything from it at the time.

>>383117250
I wouldn't consider testing and learning games to be embarrassments. Or, if you meant that you'd be embarrassed to find out you aren't as knowledgeable as you'd like to be, that's hogwash too. Learning through trial and error is the greatest teacher you will ever know. Go for it anon, just continue to progress upwards.

>>383117250
You just don't publish every game you do, and you start doing a bunch of shitty stuff just for your own amusement mostly.
Try to make a space shooter, then you go up.

>>383094272
Because it's accessible for bad developers.
Also bad threading.

bum