The reason I dislike it isn't because of the message necessarily

>>383014669
Also forgot to put the title "anti war message in ace combat five sucks and here's why" but anyway On the subject of Chopper, I appreciate what they were trying to do with having him progressively get tired of fighting, but it comes on too suddenly. The terror attacks happen, then in Powder Keg (M12A), all Chopper does is whine all of a sudden. It's the same concept as Pixy in ACZ, but not executed as well. Pixy has a clear rise and fall as Galm sees initial success but then is faced with the Allies' invasion and destruction of his native Belka. Chopper's transformation is very sudden, disappears for a few missions, and then he dies. It's completely out of place, just there to make the player feel bad about waging war. The alternate mission, 12B, doesn't even include Chopper's complaints, since destroying a weapons factory doesn't suit the anti-war narrative as well as people dying from an ammunition stockpile exploding.

Snow and Archer, on the other hand, have much more realistic character arcs. Snow is a focused, veteran fighter pilot that does his job early on, but starts to get a bit philosophical and question his role as Razgriz finally gets to the truth. Archer is a young, naive kid whose skills grow over time, but is also exposed to the nature and horrors of war. But unlike Nagase and Chopper, he has a more realistic reaction of initial surprise, but eventually coming to terms with it.

Thunderhead immediately turns on Wardog, so that the player feels that the truth is meant to be super-secret and hidden. Which would work, except for the fact that Thunderhead has been with Wardog in every single mission (except the President's impromptu landing) and has seen the exact same things as the player. He even expresses some of the same sentiments as the squadron occasionally, but he gets the word from command and instantly becomes one of "them."

Col. Perrault is also played like a bad guy, but to be fair, he's a pretty believable and honest character for the most part. He's flawed but does his job, which gives him a lot of depth for a character that really barely even shows up. His suspicion of Pops is misguided, but completely understandable. And his suspicions about Pops are correct for the most part, the only exception being that Pops isn't a spy. Shooting at Pops, Genette, and Grimm is where his character falls apart, it doesn't make sense. But, it's included so that the player feels like "the military," that is, the instruments of war being controlled by the puppet government, have turned on the player's noble mission of peace. Does it make sense for Wardog to fake their deaths and go underground to figure out the truth? Sure. Does it require that so many characters suddenly turn against them for no real reason? Not really.

The game treats a number of fairly obvious events as though they're supposed to be a surprise. For example, the leadership of both countries disappearing in favor of constantly escalating the war. Really, once Osea invades Yuktobania, it should be pretty obvious that something's up, and we already know that the president of Osea is in some kind of strange situation from the previous mission. That's mission 8 out of 27, less than a third of the way through the game. But it's not until the end of the game that the narrative finally reveals both countries were being controlled by puppet warmongers. Again, played for the maximum anti-war message when a reveal that fit the logic of the storyline better could have happened much earlier and cut down on AC5's massive 28 missions, 10 more than AC04 and ACZ.

Even the game's speech options will, in some cases, berate the player if they don't choose the anti-war option. For example, sending up trainee pilots to defend Sand Island makes perfect sense from a military perspective. If the player says that doing so isn't a bad idea, Chopper will say that the nuggets are being condemned to death by their commander. Even the nature of the mission contradicts this, as the nuggets do perfectly fine against the Yuke fleet until theScinfaxishows up. It's played for cheap emotions to make the player hate the Yukes, when there's no logical reason the nuggets couldn't climb to 5,000 feet. Mobius 1 had to fly through a ravine to avoid Stonehenge, Cipher had to dodge lasers, but the nuggets are killed because they couldn't simply climb, only to make the player feel bad.

Everything in the game is orchestrated to make the war seem as bad as possible, but it comes at the expense of story flow, and even patronizes the player to do so. And sure, it's not exactly like it's a game made for critically-thinking adults, it's a fun action game after all, but as an adult I find it difficult to get past these issues in the story. If AC5 were to be turned into a movie for adults, it would need some significant changes to cut down on the amount of unnecessary anti-war fluff present in the game.

the game is massively hypocritical. Aside from the fact that it's a game about making war that then berates everyone besides the player for making war, the basis of anything anti-war is the people and the lives lost, destroyed, and otherwise hurt by warfare. But when you get to the end of the game, are you still fighting people, with their own motivations and their own minds? Not even close. You're fighting fanatical robots only concerned with killing and destroying, every one of them ready to sacrifice themselves in the name of continuing the war. None of them have families back home that might be the target of the Grey Men's next terror attack. None of them ever wanted to get married, have kids, or grow old.

Even AWWNB had the goal of improving the world in the end by eliminating borders so that wars would no longer be fought. Maybe they had a few martyrs among the group, but surely most were looking forward to a war-free future. But AC5's Grey Men puppets don't think for themselves, they aren't human because they can't be without the game destroying its own anti-war message. If you're killing people in the name of peace, you can't be the noble crusader that AC5 wants you to be, so the enemies have to be fanatic robots.

long-form reply but wanted to put here so I don't repeat myself all over this thread. ACZ has a lot of the same themes as AC5, but refined to make more sense. And that's why I reference ACZ several times. The wingmen are more fleshed out and have consistent motivations, emotions, and reactions. The villains are more fleshed out, with a proper goal achieved through dubious means. The player character is an actual character, with his motivations and effects on the story changing with each ace style, and with the other characters reacting to that in kind. The Belkans' evolution from successful conquerors to anger at their losses to depression as their country is destroyed makes sense and humanized them. Even the ace squadrons undergo an evolution, from confidence to quiet resignation as Galm thins their numbers. In many ways ACZ and AC5 are very similar games, but I think ACZ took a long, hard look at the shortcomings in AC5's story and did an excellent job of improving those.

And this is why anti war message in ace combat five sucks and why ace combat zero is better all around on both the message and the story of the game.

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>>383014669
>>383014946
>>383015148
>>383015236
>>383015340
>>383015581

<<Yo buddy, you still alive?>>

Holy tap dancing jesus fuck off already.

Nothing wrong eith ace combat five you fucking idiot and also wars are stupid so the message in ace combat five was executed perfectly on that subject of matter you warmongering faggot.

Nice blog fag

Did I accidentally clicked on reddit?

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>>383014669
>>383014946
>>383015148
>>383015236
>>383015340
>>383015581
tl;dr

Can anyone give me the short version on what the fuck op is trying to say please?

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>>383014669
Yes yes that's all well and good, but have you purchased Fallout 4 yet?

>>383017307
Anti war messages are gay and shit in games and it turns people into ultra liberals.

Play games like ace combat zeror or other games that doesn't try to shove muh war is ebil down your throats

Who the fuck even likes the the idea of anti war?

Fuck you I like war and war is good for all nations and people alike and if you don't like war then your a fucking SJW liberal faggot!