Why are LGBT characters in Japanese games generally more accepted

>>382723281
>382723281
In Japanese games they tend to be more well written and structured, while in the west theyre show horned in for MUH DIVERSITY

>>382723281
Because they're not shoehorned or shoved down your throat with how much they're homosexual

>>382723281
because the west is full of homophobic christians while the east is full of culturally enriched people

>>382723489
>>382723456
>>382723410
/thread

>>382723489
!

The La Li Lu Le Lo?

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>>382723410
This honestly.
Japanese game devs dont have that pressure to force in diversity so when they make lgbt characters they feel more natural and fleshed out.

>>382723410
>>382723456
>>382723489
>this is what weebs believe

Western devs are more pretentious about it because they think it will make them popular and righteous.

Pic not related though. Undertale isn't pretentious about it. Common does not equal pretentious.

Gaijin are hypocrite cucks

>>382723693
>lgbt characters

LGBT has nothing to do with people who are intersex.

Because in Japan lesbians, gays and trannies have dedicated fans and fetishists while in the west it's taken too seriously and puts people off.

>>382723281
because the japanese are just making whacky characters, western marxists are doing it in order to subvert our norms and our culture

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Because they tend to be obfuscated behind Japanese cliches and conventions that weebs are more comfortable with vs the Western cliches and conventions that piss them off. The associate Western portrayal of gays with agenda pushing and soapboxing while the Nip political scheme is largely irrelevant to them so they don't associate anything with them.
Also they're hotter.
>>382724057
LGBT has everything to do with everything now. The actual initials are closer to the fucking alphabet nowadays.

Japanese games mostly include LGBT characters to be wacky or contrarian to Japan's heavily conservative culture. (>>382723693) Western Video games try harder but are hampered by having shitty characters either way.

>>382724057
Emil is the example.

>>382724057
Emil is gay, friendo.

>>382723281

Are they though or is this just the /pol/ containment thread for all the idiots and their ignorant as shit opinions about a vast variety of topics?

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I hate to pull the furshit card but Morenatsu had the best gay characters.the cast had so much more going on in their lives than their sexuality.

>>382723809

Yeah really, try to tell that to modern GUST game fans. This is just /v/ being ignorant as absolute shit about the actual differences between Japanese and Western scenes and where there's overlap and where they are worlds apart. Almost nothing to see here other than unfounded opinions pulled out of people's asses for the memes.

>>382725081
The key part of something being SJW is pretention, but some people confuse it with LGBTQ being present.

>>382723281
Japanese write gay *characters* while Westerners write *gay* characters.

>>382723281
Japanese culture is pretty lenient about things like that, allowing you to fuck whatever you want in your private life as long as you maintain a facade of harmonous public life and appease your parents by getting kids. Also the same demographics that buy games intertwine with the demographics that are acquintanced with boy-love/girl-love/yuri/bara/futa genres so a thing like stereotypical funny homosexual pervert hitting on the male MC is just glossed over.

As for the western fans, japanese devs make game characters that are also LGBT-something and play it either for laughs or drama. Western devs make a character that is LGBT-something first and foremost, just happens to be in a game, and is bound to be involved in some in-your-face discrimination or 'empowering' story.

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>>382724546

They just use them as comic relief if they are male and for sex appeal if they're female dude. It's not even that complicated. Look up what an Okama character is for example.

because they treat it like a joke. Remember those old bugs bunny episodes where he would occasionally kiss elmer fudd and it was funny.

Its like that.

>>382725304

Or nobody even knows what they are talking about with any of that shit anymore and it's just about making noise and trying to offend a demographic that doesn't even browse /v/ anyway. Like you'd have so much better luck pushing this sort of stuff on twitter to try to rile up people and get a Trevor's Axiom going but that'd mean knowing your audiences and something about plausible cause and effect scenarios.

>>382725246
Ok then name a single good well written Western Character to prove your point

>>382725532

This. I love how /v/ actually has to pretend that there's SJW's lurking around every corner on /v/ even though everybody knows it's not true and just a bunch of the same people speaking into an echo chamber day after day with a touch of role play. If you don't actually have a demographic in your venue of choice just make up that it's omnipresent and work from there. How this works or doesn't look stupid to anybody but the 20 or so people doing it everyday though I don't know, but I think that's entirely beside the point anyway.

>>382725310
this

>>382725539

>Trying to have a subjective opinion about something like that on a place like /v/ without it just taking the stupidest direction in possible and by that I mean entirely circular and into a fake argument where everybody just pretends to vehemently disagree with everything someone else says

Yeah sorry I'm hear to make fun, not pretend there's going to be some kind of real discussion and exchange of ideas cause that's not how these threads work.

>>382723281
Man, if I didn't know what the pic was from and that it's not official art, I might even call that fantastic character design and ask you what's it from because I would be interested in getting involved with it. What a shame.

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>>382725401
Yeah but Ivankov and Bon Clay are true niggas.

I can't really think of many LGBT characters in japanese games honestly.
Only one I can is soren from fire emblem.

In Japanese games they are usually a mocker, something along the lines of "haha trannies am I right?"

>>382725246
If you think japan gives two shits about LGBTBBQ rights you're an idiot who knows nothing about japan.

Gay characters in japanese games are either A: A joke or B: Pandering to male or female otaku/fujoshi's fetishes.

>>382725919
Ok then it seems that there are no well written Lgbt Characters made by Western devs it seems

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if the lesbians are cute I don't care if they're from japanese or western game

I don't even care if they're from a shit game like battleborn

LG characters are typically good

B don't exist

T are walking jokes and lovable degenerates

Because Japan usually fetishizes these characters and /v/ doesn't mind it if they can jerk off to it.

>>382726180

I guess fucking not eh. Such a crying pity.

>>382726025
You pick one that's up in the air, and not obvious ones like Heather and Leon?

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>>382726025

>>382723281

Japan doesn't have any historical dogmas or philosophies that discriminate against homosexuality. It was pretty well accepted until the West began occupying the region and consequently affected Japan's laws and social attitudes. (or the attitudes that were pushed by the then-government, not necessarily popular beliefs in their own right)

But Asian households have always been somewhat intolerant of homosexuality, if you look at it from the perspective of procreation. Although a person might not condemn homosexual acts in themselves, they might condemn a person who engages in homosexuality exclusively to the point of shunning procreation.

But as far as video games or other mediums are concerned, the subject is more often played for laughs than intended to portray homosexuals as everyday persons with real-world problems. They're a very (sincerely) underrepresented minority in Japan.

It doesn't help that the government really trivializes this stuff. But again, that's due to a lack of historical importance on the subject. Here in the U.S., this is viewed as a major civil rights struggle because of the various hate crimes and injustices gay people have suffered through in this society. These things don't happen so much in Japan, so where's the motivation for gay rights groups to crop up in the first place?

>>382724057
dude, LGBT has stuff to do with BDSM now. grow a rainbow in your bedroom for christ sake anon.

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I think it comes down to using sexual orientation as a selling point vs. using it as just another trait. The west tends to do the former since LGBTWXYZ is in vogue now. They have to advertise "the non-cis character" or introduce them in-game with their preferred pronouns in an attempt to grab that audience's attention.
Not all western devs do this, but I feel like there's less pressure in Japan to push flattering, attention grabbing portrayals of gay characters. This frees them up to portray LGBT stuff as a quirk or a joke.

>>382728881
In Automata, everyone in YoRHa was constantly talking about their lovers but it took me a while to realize that the personnel of YoRHa is composed of almost completely of women and the only males were a handful of little boys. So from the technical point of view everyone was either a lesbian or a pedohile. For progressive.

>>382726556
Informative well written answer.

>>382723281
The West is capablr of writing good LGBT characters though

>>382729828
It wasn't, tho.

>>382730194

by 4chan standards

>>382728881

What gave this moron the idea that Yoko was trying to pander to his crowd anyway?

>>382730418
Besides the reddit spacing. There were quit a bit of assumptions, with no sources. Going on a rampage of pulling shit out of your ass and throwing around, is not a good argument, nor is it informative.

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>>382725539
Bernie from GTA IV. He seems like just a quirky gay character on the surface, and I think he's pretty funny, but he's so much more. He subtly contributes a great deal to the story without being overbearing; everything I'm about to tell you isn't thrown in your face.

He's an interesting character because he's essentially Niko's, the main character's foil: both endured the same atrocities and betrayals in their home countries, but unlike Niko, who only sank deeper into his self-hatred and depression and chased something that still would have never made him happy because he would still have been the same husk of a man afterwards, as he later finds out, Bernie was actually able to move on and make a better life for himself by moving to America, becoming a fitness trainer, and starting a relationship with Bryce Harper, the deputy mayor of all people. He's not his old identity, "Florian Cravic" the traumatized child soldier, anymore, he's "Bernie," because he was able to put his past behind him, optimistically look to the future, and ultimately, be happy with who he is. He made it; he achieved the American Dream. Acceptance of his latent homosexuality, taking place off-screen and not pushed in your face, is another device that shows the malleability of character and self esteem. Niko is so resistant to change that in the beginning of the story, he's rendered in disbelief when he finds that Roman has forgotten their original language and opted to speak English instead, and insists on calling Bernie "Florian" even after Bernie asked him multiple times to do otherwise in their meetings. It's only after Niko spares Darko Brevic, the man who betrayed his and Bernie's squad, and is finally able to put at least some of his past behind him, when he calls Bernie "Bernie" in the phone call that follows, and makes a promise to hang out and have fun, something which he never wanted to do with Bernie prior, since he never saw the point. And there's more.

>>382730943
Bernie, barring the homosexuality, is what Roman, Niko's cousin and first real friend, wanted Niko to be all along despite everything, and tried to foster in Niko by staying by his side and getting him to have fun with family and friends in America. You see the changes in Niko's character through Bernie, and this is why I found the dynamic between the two very interesting to watch.

Overall, I think this is how you do an LGBT character right. Give them a purpose beyond their sexuality, and I think the West is capable of doing this just as much as the East is. It's a shame we don't see it more.

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>>382723809
It's true though, western games tend to take it too seriously and it's never subtle.

"Hi, I'm Commander Spacewad."
"Hi, I'm First Lt. Traci Lopez. I joined Andromeda because I wanted to start a new life. I used to be Thomas Lopez, but it's MISS Lopez now. Did I mention I was trans?"

>>382730776
Gay people are not treated as a human in many asian countries.
source: I'm a gook.

>>382731141
Also, I'll add that concept of Bernie being Niko's foil is subtly fleshed out right down to their physical appearance; they both have the same eyebrow scar. And it's not like being flamboyantly gay is the only facet of his character; Despite this, during Niko's first interaction with him, the player sees that Florian is still deep inside Bernie. When Niko first accuses Bernie of betraying their unit, since Niko knows it is either him or Darko that did it, Bernie's voice loses the flamboyant edge and reverts to the raspy Serbian accent you come to associate with Niko as he yells "I wouldn't do that!" Furthermore, when Niko asks Bernie where Darko is, Florian's voice comes out again, in order to say the decidedly hostile-toned "Dead, I hope!" Bernie pauses for a second here, as if he's struggling with himself, before his flamboyant accent returns and he voices out a more cordial "I'm not sure," complete with exaggerated hand movements. Seeing these two sides of him, Bernie and Florian Cravic, clash so quickly and in such a missable way was a real treat to see.

>>382731613
In terms of legal protections or treatment by other citizens?

Why in the fuck is there one of these threads up at all times? You never fucking stop, it's been months since you started. I can't even remember the last time I looked at the catalog and didn't see one active, no matter what time of day it was.

>>382725532
>>382725761

You fucking morons, these threads aren't about trolling SJWs, it's bitching about weebs and Japan.

>>382724287
>The actual initials are closer to the fucking alphabet nowadays.
I swear they keep adding more letters when i'm not looking.

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>>382723281
Excuse me?

This would be way bigger but I kinda weaned off UT early-mid 2016.

>>382734853
Upload it.

>>382731273
>"Hi, I'm First Lt. Traci Lopez. I joined Andromeda because I wanted to start a new life. I used to be Thomas Lopez, but it's MISS Lopez now. Did I mention I was trans?"

You now remember the shitfest Neogaf had over this because HOW DARE Bioware suggest that within a couple of hundred years, trans people'll be comfortable enough to mention they're trans to someone they just met and others would be accepting of it without pause.
How dare Bioware give minority groups the representation that Neogaf demands from all devs. How can they play the victim if you create worlds where they're respected?

>>382726472
Every playthru I make sure Jann is on the team.

>>382732584
But the real question is "have you played the greatest RPG ever made?"

>>382737947
>HOW DARE Bioware suggest that within a couple of hundred years, trans people'll be comfortable enough to mention they're trans to someone they just met and others would be accepting of it without pause
Nah. For once it was just that they were put off by how in your face it was as the rest of us. It had nothing to do with showing a world in which they were respected and was just a big flashing LOOK GUYS HERE'S A TRANS CHARACTER, WE DID GOOD RIGHT???, but they didn't even do it right because not even the craziest trannies will tell you "I used to be a man" and will instead go straight to insisting they're a woman.

>>382726170
>If you think japan gives two shits about LGBTBBQ rights you're an idiot who knows nothing about japan.
based japs
honestly if they didnt have such a shitty job market and it wasn't so crushingly overpopulated id wanna live there
just thinking of the lack of shitskins makes me giddy

Because most devs shoehorn in LGBT characters in western games to the point where it feels unnatural and forced.

For example, nobody flipped shit when tracer in overwatch was said to be gay because it was thrown in and never mentioned again, sexuality doesn't need to be constantly displayed like a "medal of SJW honor" in a video game. It's disgusting to see it forced.

>>382723281
Stop asking this shit constantly. You know the answer. To the Japanese they're a joke, while westerners try to take them seriously, but they're cancerous abominations so that's impossible.

>>382740597
There was literally threads about it from /pol/ posters for months

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>>382740597
>nobody flipped shit when tracer in overwatch was said to be gay

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>>382723456
It's actually the opposite of this; eastern games tend to make a bigger deal about the fact that characters are gay -- typically either using it as a twist or as a character's defining quirk.
But the important thing to recognize is that joke characters are often the best ones. Pic related is merely pretending to be bi, but he's still by far the most popular character in his series.

>>382723693
>when they make lgbt characters they feel more natural and fleshed out.
stereotypes arent natural

>>382723281
Because they're hot lesbians.

>>382723281
Japan is a society far removed from what we're used to. Even weebs don't get it.

It's cool when they do it 'cause they don't got the same issues. In America, developers are being inclusive for the sake of it. In Japan, we just don't fucking know.

Forgive me if I'm being fucking retarded. That's off the top of my head.

>>382743507
>>382745294
edgy

>>382745718
You're using that word too much.

>>382723281
Because weebs don't give a flying rat's ass about that shit. They are going to fap to it anyway be it guy on guy, girl on girl, futa, pedo or whatever sick fuck japan can come up with it doesn't matter to the devlopers and it doesn't fucking matter either to the fans.
Meanwhile westcucks care so much about muh sjw that they are incapable of enjoying a game for the silliest reasons and make a hug fucking deal about it.

>>382725178
I felt so fucking bad for Juiichi, Kyouji had implanted the idea that being gay was sin when they were younger and then he went ahead and crushed on Soutarou without going back to tell Ju it was fine.

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>>382740597
>nobody flipped shit when tracer in overwatch was said to be gay
The amount of shit that was flipped over that shows just how arbitrary /v/'s standards of "unnatural and forced" are. I don't even buy that as a criticism anymore, "unnatural and forced" can mean anything.

>>382723281
In JP games, the characters sexual preference is not their one dimension as a character. They don't shoehorn in the idea of of a LGBT character, if they actually want to make one, they will

Writers should add LGBT characters in games not to pander to a specific group but because they want to and to fit their vision for the game.

>>382743756
>/pol/
>"Ay Jeff the monkies are flinging shit again"
>"Don't worry trump will tweet something for them to divert there attention"

>>382723410
>Japanese games
>well written
They are shoehorned for fujos.

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Rate him.

>>382745452
Makes sense.

>>382746246
I think so too, and there are definitely games out there that do that

>>382746541
Gay/10. Joking aside, yes, he's extremely effeminate, but his love isn't shown as perverted or something to be scorned. He is purely devoted to the man that he loves. He's also a great unit.

>>382726025
Kind of weird how many gay characters were in the Tellius Fire Emblems specifically. Heather, Kyza, and Devdan were obvious ones, while Ike, Soren, and Ranulf were more ambiguous.

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>>382747421
He's the best character from DR3, hands down.

>>382747586
I ship Heather x Nephenee.

>>382747421
>>382747587
Not vidya.

>>382747586
I found it funny that people made a big deal that Niles and Rhajat were Nintendo's first gay characters, when FE always had gay implications for characters, going back to FE5 with Dagdar and Marty.

I guess it became fashionable to mention it.

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>>382744820
Stereotypes are the most natural or you wouldn't consider them stereotypes.

>>382747586
Wait, Devdan too?

>>382747778
danganronpa is a video game anon-kun

>>382723281
Because they make fun of them, they don't try to tell you it's normal and hip

>>382747939
In the japanese version, he spoke like a middle-aged woman.

>>382747998
Oh, like with ara ara and shit?

>>382739745
>just thinking of the lack of shitskins makes me giddy
Boy, I love bringing people back to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qe4AZRkFYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_cCDFqLeTY
Whites don't get treated any better there.

>>382748095
Yes, instead of whatever we got in the english release.

>>382746541
Better than Niles/10

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>>382747939
http://amielleon.dreamwidth.org/90765.html

Devdan's weird; apparently his gimmick in Japan is sounding like a woman. I can kind of see it from his artwork? I have no way of confirming it though. That blog is pretty interesting when it comes to FE characters and what they were like in the original.

http://four-loose-screws.tumblr.com/post/158442048009/nephenee-x-devdan-a-support-translation

>>382748148
Third person speak. I remember reading all of his lines with a jamaican accent, too.

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>>382723281

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>>382726401
Leon isn't gay, he just wants Ada dude.

>>382748375
>あらら、ネフェニーから声かけてくるなんてダラハウ嬉しいのよ〜。
The arara is right there.
>ダラハウ嬉しいのよ〜。
As is the third person speech.

>>382723281
Because just about every single JRPG with lesbians or gays out there is almost solely pandering to people who get off on watching them fuck. And yet weebs will defend them by picking one notoriously bad western game to pick apart like it's the only example of having LGBT characters.

>>382731273
Like this faggot. Andromeda as a whole was a shitshow and you know it. That's like using McDonalds as an example as to why all burgers suck.

>>382723281
I like this fish

Honesty answer? Americans are fucking idiots.
Both the games and the people who play them. The writing doesn't matter, the only thing Americans care about is what their social movement leaders and reviewers say.

They're literally fucking stupid. It's ridiculous. Look at their president for fucks sake. They get MUH ZELDA + open world and apparently it's reinvented the gaming industry.

>>382749204
OBSESSED
B
S
E
S
S
E
D

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>>382723281
Because LGBT characters in western games are defined only by the fact that they're LGBT. Everything about their personality and backstory revolves around that single aspect of their existence, rather than making them an actually fleshed out character who also happens to be LGBT.

>>382749902
Some are, but not all of them

>>382749204
>Eurocucks projecting blame to Americans again

>>382749902
Alphys, though.

>>382749902
tracer

>>382749902
This. It's also because devs like to deflect the hate their shit game gets as "They're all homophobes just hating our game because it features gays!" Making both the people that already had a problem with their game laugh, and making any gays who even remotely might have liked the game hate the company.

t. a gay. Though I never liked dragon age or mass effect to begin with.

>>382743828
Certain idiotic news outlets flipped out over everyone NOT flipping out when Tracer was revealed to be gay. Is that worth anything?

>>382750337
/v/ flipped out

>>382746050
this is true, the argument sometimes holds merit depending on the game but even if a game was created for the purpose of talking about political ideas whiny babies will say "IT'S AN SJW GAME JUST FORCING IT DOWN OUR THROAT, GAMES ARE ABOUT GAMEPLAY NOT POLITICS" as if games have to exist on such a strict set of rules where they aren't allowed to grow as an artform

>>382750417
That's only because they wanted her to be gay with Widowmaker, not Windrunner.

Because homos are a fucking joke in Japan, rightly so.

Please, Japanese comedy is all about guffawing at retards, homos and fatties.

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This thread has been done at least ten times this past month, so I'm just gonna leave this fish here

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>>382723281
Japanese developers are more focused on their audience. If they do put gays or lesbians in their games, it's because they're doing it to please their audience, fujos and yurifags respectively. If they put traps, it's not to be inclusive, it's to please the trap loving homosexuals.
Western developers usually try to appeal to everyone, and they also have this idea that representation is important, so they often resort to tokenism.

>>382750228

You're absolutely right, Tracer's defining trait is that she has a cockney voice.

faggot characters in western games are included by "developers" who have an agenda; thus, the character is only defined by their gayness. it isnt a trait that builds upon anything, they are just gay for the sake of it.

>>382723281
Because homosexuality is a fetish in Japan not a sexual orientation

Because their sexualities are there for laughs or as a fetish, which is the only LGBT representation sheltered suburban White boys tolerate.

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>>382726025
The original Gay Tony

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The best gays are the ones that are cats and can cook. This is a fact.

>>382751289
>they also have this idea that representation is important
Western developers also tend to go for the realism angle in video games, and one of the many ways they do so is recreating a real life city within the game. If that city is NYC or cities like it, i.e. picturesque melting pots, representation does become important, whether that city is true to life or a parody because diversity is ingrained in the city's culture and history and to not respect that in some way is doing a disservice to historical accuracy. A disservice which /v/ probably wouldn't complain about if it ever happens. Of course the characters should ideally be very well fleshed out, but for a city like NYC, which is a stronghold of the gay pride movement, it makes zero sense to make the city homogenous rather than diverse, and some of the games that parodied it, like GTA III and GTA IV, realized that, and imo, respected that by making their diverse characters stand on their own.

I just wish people would write who the character is first and not what they are. Your first cliff note for a character's design shouldn't be "is gay" unless it's for comedy and that's the point of the character. Honestly referring to any orientation before people get butthurt.