Why the fuck is Mantis a cunt in MGS4? I thought he got redeemed

Just one of the billion characters that got ruined in MGS 4. Why do people like that shit "game" again? Oh right, because they're faggots and everything that is wrong with MGS fans. Probably the same faggots that make ruse threads to this day. MGS 4 is the worst game in the entire series by a very long shot.

>>382672117
>MGS 4 is the worst game in the entire series by a very long shot.

Nah that's MGSV.

>>382671926
It was just a dumb comedic cameo, don't treat it as canon. Just like the parts where Mantis references games and shit, or when characters literally tell you the game controls in-dialogue.

>>382672117
Holy shit how is it possible to be this much of an angry manchild, lmao. I bet you think MGS3 is the peak of the series.

>>382672234
Yup agreed. MGSV could've been labeled as any other game that's how incredibly irrelevant it was to the series

>>382672234
MGSV has the worst plot but the best gameplay so it evens out.

The PSP games are the worst. Nothing but Big Boss milking and gimped gameplay.

>>382672494
>MGSV not relevant to the series
Oh look another one of those guys that never played the game and formed their opinion by parroting /v/posters.

>>382672454
>I bet you think MGS3 is the peak of the series.
Correct. You probably managed to guess that because MGS 3 is in fact the peak of the series.

>>382672234
Faggot

>>382672494
Better to be irrelevant to the series than an active shitstain on it

>>382672810
>but the best gameplay

If you're a braindead gimp sure. The gameplay was completely destroyed due to the open world meme so instead of carefully crafted levels/areas we got a bunch of tents everywhere, no bosses, and mechanics that were dumbed down from MGS4. AI was about as advanced as your average borderlands grunt as well.

>>382672852
>MGS3 shitter calling anyone a faggot

Kek

>>382672810
Incorrect, I played the game. It was more or less fun even though it was lacking a lot in gameplay. That being said there was no story. And then there's the classic hideo twist which you saw coming. All in all wrapping up something that is again irrelevant to the story.

>>382672852
Then just make it a spinoff for fucks sake

>>382672117
MGS4 was the best game in the series you fucking retard.

is mgs4 worth picking up a ps3 for?

>>382673704
The PS3 has a lot of great games, why would you pick one up just for MGS4?

>>382671926
Wasn't he just a nanomachine induced hallucination in 4? Unless ghosts are now somehow canon to MGS.

>>382674402
>Unless ghosts are now somehow canon to MGS.
They've been canon since MGS3.

>>382674764
When? The Sorrow river? I think that was just Snake dreaming after getting knocked out from the fall.

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>>382671926
He had a small penor, pic related

>>382674841
You see The Sorrow multiple times throughout the game and he's the excuse they use to bring Mantis back in MGS4, so I'd say ghosts are canon.

>>382675153
Dicklets, when will they learn?

>>382671926
It's not mantis, it's nanomachines.

>>382675437
He's also part of why Liquid possessing Ocelot through his arm sort of(?) makes sense, since The Sorrow is Ocelot's father.

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>>382672117
MGS4 was pretty good. The people that hate it are everything wrong with MGSfans. They hate story for really autistic reasons and pretend the over games weren't just as dumb. They autistic worship MGS games and pretend they're art.

>>382675790
Pretty sure they retconned that to Liquid was just "merely pretending" and never possessed

>>382676089
sorry, meant Ocelot

>>382676040
fuck off

there's a clear drop in quality after mgs3 and you would have to be retarded to not see that

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>>382672810
>MGSV has the worst plot but the best gameplay
>best gameplay

>>382676207
>there's a clear drop in quality after mgs3
Like what? Pls list "drop in quality"

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Someone explain something for me.

>The Pain
Commands bees/hornets and can do all kinds of mad shit with them.

>The Fear
Has fucked up anatomy that lets him crawl around like a spider and posses superhuman agility.

>The End
Can photosynthesise and run around like Usain Bolt despite being 100 years old.

>The Sorrow
Has supernatural ghost powers.

>The Fury
Got burned upon reentry and is now really angry?

>>382676413
What do you want explained. The Pain was covered head to foot in bee stings. That hurt.

Crawling around like a spider is creepy as fuck.

The End is at the end of his life, he's old.

Sorrow cries blood.

Fury is pissed, just look at how angry he sounds. Being burned probably didn't help calm him down either.

>>382673146
Enlighten us then. Which game is the pinnacle of the series?

>>382677140
But what is the Fury's super power?

>>382677235
>Inb4 MGS 2

>>382677435
flamethrower

>>382677435
he's so mad he turned into a fire ghost head when he died
that's pretty super, what else do you want

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>>382671926
Mantis is the child of Paz and Skullface. He was stolen away from his mother via Caesarean section in Camp Omega before the events of Ground Zeroes (March 16, 1975) and taken to be a tool of Cipher (The Patriots), leaving his mother with a wound in the shape of a "V".

This echoes the scenario of Ocelot, the child of The Joy and The Sorrow, who was taken from his mother by The Philosophers. In his case, the operation was carried out on the battlefield of Normandy on D-Day. (June 6, 1944) His mother was left with a scar in the shape of a snake.

A trophy in Ground Zeroes featuring the image of Skullface tipping his hat is titled "Genesis". The events of Ground Zeroes take place on 3/16. The significance of this is that the biblical verse Genesis 3:16 seems to accurately describe the circumstances at hand. The New International Version translation of the verse is as follows:
>To the woman he said,
>“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
>with painful labor you will give birth to children.
>Your desire will be for your husband,
>and he will rule over you.”

In addition to describing the horrific nature of the delivery, it gives a clue as to where we may have encountered Skullface before. In Peace Walker one of the three Cipher agents involved, says to Paz:
>I am Vladimir Zadornov. Vladimir means ruler of peace. So do as you're told, Paz.

This agent's last action in the game is to make a red "V" with his prosthetic hand and attack Snake with it. His first action in the game was to lure Snake into doing his bidding by presenting him with a cassette tape and walkman. Skullface's first action in Ground Zeroes going to Chico's cell with XOF soldiers and giving him a cassette tape and walkman that would once again manipulate Snake into a trap. Suspiciously, in Peace Walker when looking for "Zadornov", you can discover hidden XOF soldiers in the areas around Chico's cell.

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>>382678440
The theme song of The Phantom Pain is titled "Sins Of The Father". While the lyrics don't seem to apply to the player character (as they are not 'the father', Big Boss) they certainly apply to Skullface.
>Cleansing flames is the only way to repent. Renounce what made you.
This aligns with the circumstances of Skullface's demise. It is shown throughout the game that Mantis inherits elements of the people whose minds he taps into. (Venom's whale of guilt over Paz' death. Volgin's fiery rage toward Snake. Shabani's desire to pass on his pendant.) When Eli/Liquid becomes the dominant power in his mind, Mantis does what Liquid would do - he takes over Metal Gear and kills his father. He renounces what made him and, through cleansing flames, repents.

The name Tretij Rebenok is Russian for "Third Child" but we aren't given any reason for this. The name might be a sick joke on the part of Skullface, implying that the bombs he left behind inside her after the Caesarean section are the first and second "children".

Hidden in the data of the game is the texture map for Paz' skin. It contains the obvious "V" on the abdomen but also, for no readily apparent reason, contains a replication of the Boss' torso featuring her snake-shaped Caesarean scar - the "proof that she was once a mother". This may be just another of the many hints left in the game regarding Mantis' origins. Just as the Boss underwent her D-Day mission pregnant with Ocelot, Paz infiltrated the ironically named "Mother Base" while pregnant with Mantis.

Hideo Kojima had said that players would return to Camp Omega in The Phantom Pain to learn more. It was discovered from the title card inside the game that the missing Chapter 3 was to be titled "PEACE" - a literal translation of Paz' name. While we may never find this missing piece, we may find some of these themes being revisited in Kojima's new game "Death Stranding" - featuring Caesarean scars, stolen children, and the battlefields of Normandy.

>>382678440
>>382678547
Christ...

>>382678547
>In my heart I just know that there's no way to light up the dark in his eyes
>light up the dark in his eyes
>his eyes
>eyes
I knew SotF wasn't about Big Boss when Red Band dropped.

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>>382678440
>>382678547
>>382671926

shota mantis was cute! what happened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSVH55UuPbQ

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>>382678440
>>382678547

>>382672117
only problem was that everything looked gloomish. it was more finished than mgs5 and still good

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Return to Camp Omega

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>>382678547
>While we may never find this missing piece, we may find some of these themes being revisited in Kojima's new game "Death Stranding" - featuring Caesarean scars, stolen children, and the battlefields of Normandy.

Such a lust for revenge

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>>382679996
>Caesarean section
>Cetacean stranding

>>382678547
MAXIMUM AUTISM

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>>382671926
>I thought he got redeemed when he died in MGS1
You mean when he "helped" Snake and Meryl by opening the way directly to an ambush by Sniper Wolf?

When Liquid's plan was for Snake to murder everyone in his way so he'd be duped into doing the PAL Card trick to activate Metal Gear, and all his subordinates loved him enough/wanted to die enough to commit suicide by Snake?

>>382680514
honestly between all the mgs theories that flew around for a while like kaz = ocelot and shit, this seems the most sane

>>382676040
Here's a review I wrote a couple years ago.

1/4?

So MGS4 is definitely my least favorite entry in the franchise. I didn't hate it but there was a lot that just pissed me off.

Everything with Meryl, her team and Akiba was awful. I liked the idea of her growing apart from you because Snake is the type of character who can't maintain that relationship with someone and it puts a bitter twist on your time together on Shadow Moses. That was a good idea but it was just so poorly done. Her character was just inconsistent and the love story plot was terrible every step of the way. In MGS2 the love story was overly melodramatic but the postmodernist themes made it feel like a joke in the long run so I see it as parody for the most part. This was just terrible for the sake of being terrible I believe.

The character of Sunny was shitty too. She is supposed to have a pretty important role in everything but you never actually see her do anything. You're just told about her doing it afterwords. And her relationship with Naomi was corny without ever amounting to something. The story just feels off. It felt like there were a lot of concepts that weren't fully fleshed out, leaving the game feeling hollow.

In terms of gameplay, Acts 1 and 2 were great and probably the best in the series up to that point, but Act 3 was awful. I was impressed with the first couple and was enjoying the game. It had interesting new gameplay, beautiful visuals and a distinct feeling to it that comes with ever entry in the series. It felt like familiar MGS, but had its own charm to it as well. An evolution in the franchise and a melancholy retrospective of the franchise. Then it flatlined.

The introduction of the beasts was alright and the cutscene pulled off making them genuinely a little frightening.

>>382681404

2/4?

I especially enjoyed the laughing octopus fight. It was a well designed hide and go seek match that was both unsettling and exciting. The beauty phases were unnerving and made you realize the horror of killing these tortured girls. How they convey their backstories however, was dumb but it felt like one of those MGS storytelling quirks so I went along with it.

Act 3 though had no content basically. It was a huge area sure but there was nothing to fucking do in it. You walk for a while ride a bike for a while and then kill the beauty. That boss fight was really underwhelming too. It didn't evoke the feeling of fury like the fury fight in MGS3 did. It was just another battle for the sake of a battle honestly. The rest of the beauty back stories were pretty underwhelming as well and were overly similar to each other.

Act 4 pulled off the games theme of sense very well with how it played on your nostalgia but it never seemed to go beyond the nostalgia and actually make a statement. Otacon opens the mission by encouraging you to try not to lose yourself in the nostalgia, but that ends up being what the entire mission does anyway. It had a good atmosphere though and you truly were drawn into the setting. The wolf fight was ok, but all of the remaining fights were a let down.

>>382681569

3/4?

I wish I could feel differently but the nano machine story element really is disappointing. It's just so much of a fucking cop out and the card is played too many times in a row. It probably is the only way to have a logical reasoning behind the events of MGS2, but it ends up disappointing fans of both games. I would have preferred it if Kojima instead emphasized a sort of message about not always getting the answers you want along with an offhand explanation about some people just having special powers. That would have been a more respectful continuation of MGS2 rather than insulting it because the fans didn't understand it. I mean if he was ok with disappointing fans (which it honestly looks like this game was meant to do), why not at least try to respect his own ambitions?

I was hoping Act 5 would do some sort of callback to MGS2 where the gameplay and story become muddled and you lose your sense of reality (which admittedly is a little simple minded, and every game is different etc...) but you just make it to the server room and shut it down and everyone wins. The best section of the whole game is the microwave room bar none. It drew you in and evoked the theme of sense more than anything else. Extremely intense and powerful game design that evoked some real emotions for once.

Then you fight ocelot which was alright but all the plot twists and cop outs with the arm were needless and fucked with the previous plot points.

>>382676040
That.
Although mgs2 and 3 are my favorite ones i really enjoyed mgs4

>>382681679

4/4?

Taking down the patriots is a key element of this games story, and they have previously been portrayed as mysterious shadow of an organization controlling the world behind the scenes. Learning about them at the end of MGS2 had an impact because it evoked that common science fiction/fantasy trope of hopeless in the face of an entity with unfathomable power or influence. In this game however, there is literally no interaction with the patriots throughout the game, and this makes the player less invested in the battle against them. The author can tell you about how bad they are as much as he wants and they certainly earned your disdain in MGS2 but they are completely unrepresented in this entry. To a certain extent it makes sense (because you are basically fighting against a program at this point) but there easily could have been more narrative devices to drive the player forward than just "Stop the Patriots to Save the World, Snake!" One wonders where all their charisma from MGS2 went.

The Big Boss reveal felt pointless aside from all of the exposition he provides. You could argue that it adds a sense of closure to his relationship with snake, but the only time they had even the slightest form of relationship was MG2. In that sense you could remove him and you wouldn't lose anything except the explanation of how he survived and what started the patriots etc.. Maybe this would be more interesting if we had gotten some of this info a little earlier instead of after we had already defeated the patriots (you know, to get the player invested in the story).

Lastly, Snake getting to live at the end for a little while longer was just plain cheesy.

Overall the game was disappointing. Although Peacewalker's plot was shitty, I think all of the subplots and the game's general themes were done better than MGS4. Hell, I think even Portable Ops was better than MGS4.

Chapter 3 killed it

>>382680704
I wish we could have Liquid and Solidus models in HD.

>>382681404
Meryl was always awful anyway.

>>382681868
The endings were always cheesy. Did you forget the endings to MGS1?

I played the first 2 acts and watched the rest on youtube. No regrets

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>>382682639
>Not playing Rex vs Ray which is the best MGS boss fight in the series

>>382678440
>>382678547
I really hope this isn't true.
I liked it in MGS how FOX-HOUND were just elite mercenaries hired by America, and the implication that there was other agents of FOX HOUND who didn't rebel, just a minority. I'd like to think that Mantis, Raven, Wolf and Octopus just joined the rebellion because it was fun and because of allegiance to Big Boss, and not some stupid shit that basically amounts to "Oh, we all knew each other as kids when we were also bad ass soldiers, isn't that a coincidence?"

>>382672234
MGSV is a masterpiece compared to 4

>from zero divided by one you make 2 plus 100 and it all comes back to zero
>heres another 4 hours slide show trying to fix the mgs2 plot

Mgsv
In war will we ever find the missing piece/peace?

>>382671926
Wait mantis is in 4, I haven't played it in a while but what did they do to him in 4

>>382682321
At this point I wouldn't even mind Konami giving 1 and 2 the pachinko treatment if we get to see characters from the older games in present-day graphics.

>>382683649
>>from zero divided by one you make 2 plus 100 and it all comes back to zero
BB just meant that they had to eradicate every trace of the Patriots in order to prevent them from coming back again. The wording was weird but it wasn't hard to comprehend at all.

>heres another 4 hours slide show trying to fix the mgs2 plot
MGS2 was stupid and self-indulgent in its own post-modernist bullshit.

>>382683791
his ghost shows up for two minutes, he tells you to put your controller on the ground, does the vibration trick (or throws a fit if you use an early sixaxis controller that doesn't have vibration) and then he explodes

>>382676089
He really was possessed in 2 I think. However in between 2 and 4 Ocelot got Liquid's arm replaced with a prosthetic one and wasn't really possessed anymore, but got hypnotherapy done to make him think he was Liquid to fool the Patriots or some shit.

>>382684663
MGS4 retcons that to him having the arm but having faked the possessions from the beginning.

>>382671926
>Octopus was fluent in a dozen languages.[13] At least some of these languages were French, German, Spanish, and Ebonics

I love the Metal Gear Wiki, just wanted you all to know that.
Carry on.

>>382671926
Because he got himself Hijacked by The Sorrow you fag.
So did the cunt in 4.

>>382685072
>Ebonics
So that's why he was so good at pretending to be Sigint.

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>>382683412
>"Oh, we all knew each other as kids when we were also bad ass soldiers, isn't that a coincidence?"
Where did you get that for Wolf, Octopus and Raven? Technically the only FOXHOUND members who would know each other long befor MGS1 as of V would be Ocelot, Liquid and Mantis. Still, I kind of agree that I sort of liked it better before V changed a bunch of shit around.

>>382685002
Fuck, really? That's even more retarded. I only played 4 once and I don't really remember all the details. Why would Ocelot even remove the arm though then? Is there a reason or is it just a Kojima plot hole?

>>382686146
>>382685002
It didn't. The official story is that Liquid actually WAS possessed. Out of everything that happened in MGS2, getting possessed by Liquid was one of the things that was never part of Ocelot's plans. The possessions were too unstable and tearing apart his psyche, so he opted to get rid of the arm. However, he decided to use the possession to his advantage by using hypnotism and nanomachines to make everyone believe he was still possessed.

>>382671926
Turn on your second controller anon

>>382676289
It does. Everything else before it sucked balls.

Foxhound (MGS1)
>A really good actor
>Russian Cowboy Ruseman
>The most powerful psychic in the world
>A guy with a big gun
>A really good sniper
>A really skilled normal person (relatively)

Dead Cell (MGS2)
>A normal person with a thing embedded in her that let her deflect bullets
>A fat guy who plants bombs everywhere
>A gay vampire

Cobra Unit (MGS3)
>NOT THE BEEEEES
>A gluttonous lizard man
>A really old man
>A pyromaniac astronaut
>Spirit medium
>A really skilled normal person

B&B Corps (MGS4)
>Powered suit
>Powered suit
>Powered suit
>Powered suit

>>382690534
Honestly, I don't even really understand why Raven was a part of Foxhound. Aren't they supposed to be an elite covert ops unit? What the hell is so elite and covert about a large man who carries around a fucking gattling gun?

>>382690534
>A normal person with a thing embedded in her that let her deflect bullets
How come she managed to deflect the bombs before she died?

>>382690534
Chronologically, the series is about how natural talent and supernatural abilities (Naked Snake/The Cobras) were overtaken and replaced by technology (BB Corps)

>>382690534
Don't you understand that in MGS3 you have to beat what they represent?

>Pain
>Fear
>End
>Fury
>Sorrow
>Joy

You have to conquer these in every sense