>mgs2 >the patriots are an allegory for american politics

>>382598064
>>patriots are retconned to be big computers, snake trips over the plug while having a coughing fit
They were always machines. It is stated that GW was an IA the whole time. It only made sense for the Patriots to be IAs after the original Wisemen's Committee members were all dead by the time Snake and Otacon tracked them down.

>>382598064
>american politics and culture
I don't think the Patriots are an allegory for American politics and culture specifically.

>>382599397
>"A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House"
DEFINITELY NOT AN ALLEGORY FOR AMERICAN POLITICS

>>382599031
Yes they're literally machines (also btw it's AI not IA) but the point is if you shut off the machines it wouldn't make a difference because
>"We are formless. We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often"

>>382599556
The Patriots are American, but thematically they encapsulate a more general existential problem.

>>382600091
>The Patriots are American
except for when Kojima got cold feet and retconned them to be League of Nations/UN

>>382599556
Wasn't he referring to the philosophers?

>>382600517
>except for when Kojima got cold feet and retconned them to be League of Nations/UN
That never happened.

>>382600517
The Predecessors to the Patriots were such individuals.

The Patriots themselves were all-American, and more or less the protagonist team of MGS3.

>>382600517
Insofar as America's war adventurism/barely masked imperialism survives, the Patriots were always implied to have an international presence. MGS3 even implies they're formed out of the CIA.

But my point was simply that, as an allegory, the Patriots aren't all that uniquely American. They represent the myriad influences that try to shape us, and that's where Snake's advice comes in.

>>382600683
>the very next game reveals they were originally a coalition of the USA, Russia and China formed after WW1
>in MGS4 Drebin literally says "Then again, the UN itself's just an old 20th-century relic. And if you think about it... When you look at its history... It ain't that different from the Patriots"
Kojima really tried to dumb it down for you with that line and you still didn't get it

>>382601756
By then the UN were already under control of the Patriots. anon. It's really not that hard to understand. That doesn't mean they were actually the Patriots but one of their endless dummies.

>>382600878
>The Patriots themselves were all-American
>Zero - British
>Paramedic, SIGINT, Snake - American
>Ocelot - Russian
>EVA - China
>all-American 100% made in USA baby!

The jews forced Kojima not to criticize political messages in vidya.

>>382601913
Kojima was making a comment about real world politics with that line dum dum

>>382601972
you mean Konami forced him
>mgsv originally had Big Boss taking on the American government
>Huey was going to act as an unreliable narrator representing America's skewed viewpoint of BB

>>382602262
[Citation needed]

>>382602262
You're not very perceptive if you think Kojima wanted to single out America specifically and champion Big Boss as a hero.

Even MG2 has the UN doing something shitty as a major plot point.

>>382602634
>UN
Meant to write NATO, but point still stands.

>>382602473
http://wccftech.com/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain-themes-were-already-in-place-in-2011-ishmaels-original-identity-revealed/

>Famitsu: “So, why do you think Mr Kojima used moby dick references in MGSV? ”
Kenji Yano:
To tell the truth, Mr Kojima had already told me his ideas about MGSV in 2011. At that point, all the themes were already in his mind.
Phantom Pain, vocal cord parasites, race and revenge, and of course, Moby Dick too.
But at this point, Ishmael was Huey. Snake was Ahab and Diamond Dogs were fighting with America.Huey was sided with America, and the story was supposed to be told from him, from America’s view of justice.The reason the role of Ishmael changed from Huey to BIGBOSS will be revealed later.

How does it feel to get BTFO?

>>382602634
see
>>382602924

>>382598064
So, LOL?

>>382603035
My response wasn't about MGSV's story but what you were (presumably, though I may be wrong) trying to imply about Kojima in general. I'd say it's more accurate to say Kojima is anti-imperialist and anti-war in general, with America being the most obvious (and dangerous/powerful) example and the Patriots being an abstraction of it, with Big Boss being war incarnate.

Let the world be

>>382602924
Go to bed Nicola and Bart

Kojima is the Ano of videogames, the fans couldn't let go so they got what they wanted in MGS3 and he said fuck you anyway in 4 and V.

File: evangelion canned bread.jpg (17KB, 330x220px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 330x220px

>>382604068
nah, Anno will just make NGE merchandise of literally fucking anything, he's the George Lucas of anime

Kojima needed a 'happy yet bittersweet' ending. He could not have this if the Patriots were a problem of the body politic of America, because we all know that takes decades to change.

>>382603749
My point was mgsv was originally going to have Big Boss vs America but at some point that changed for some reason (presumably konami)

>>382604802
this.