So why is Fusion such a divisive sequel? >muh linearity But

File: sleepy_duck.jpg (69KB, 504x470px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 504x470px

>>382593528
>So why is Fusion such a divisive sequel?
It's a case of "if it's not Super/AM2R I must hate it"
I wonder why these people call themselves Metroid fans if they only like one game.

>>382593528
too much dialogue

The Adam character and almost all the interaction with him made me like it less, personally.

>>382594109
What? There have always been issues with fusion. Its not a strictly bad game, but it fails to do a lot of things that make the best metroid games so good.

>>382593528
Fusion is my personal favourite.
The gameplay was great, ost and graphics were top notch, and I even like dthe story fragments. In the end it wa sjust about a few lines of text on Samus remembering things when you took the elevator.
It added some nice backstory without breaking up gameplay or anything.

other m, on the other hand ruined every-fucking-thing.

metroidvanias should allow you to go places with your new abilities, not tell you to use those abilities in order to go to a place. that's literally it.

>>382594473
What you feel makes Metroid good may not be what other people feel makes Metroid good.

>>382594523
>Metroidvania
What a dumb term. Metroid defined it while Castlevania only had that gameplay with SotN

>>382594584
Yes this is what we call an opinion, and what im getting at is my opinion is how many people have felt long before AM2R was a thing. I still enjoyed the game but super, prime and zero mission have it pretty soundly beat. 1 and 2 can be harder for many people to enjoy since they are more archaic

>>382593528
It always had detractors, but it wasn't really 'divisive' until Metroid Other M made it so.

ive beaten this game 25 times.

>>382594510
Other m made Samus a flashback-riddled pussy

>>382593528

i dont know, all I know is I played through twice and thought the game was absolutely fantastic.

>dem satisfying rocket blasts
>dat ost
>dat atmosphre

but yeah Zero Mission was even better

File: 1462626099875.jpg (247KB, 580x669px) Image search: [Google]

247KB, 580x669px

I liked it. It showed that you can have a metroid games without the endgame of killing metroids to look forward to.

>>382595179
Other M took what good was in fusion(good flashback of Samus remembering fondly a person who helped Samus to shape herself and grow)into a retard who cant tie her shoelce.
It literally shat onto everything good was in Fusion while screaming WE KNOW THIS IS WHT YOU WANT.

its just bad.

and its a shame, it had a lot of good idea like 3d/2d transition and the gameplay per se is not terrible.

>>382594510
Yeah, a few lines of text on the elevator..... Followed by tons of lines of text from the computer, and a quest marker. Fusion sucked.

I was excited for samus returns until they showed that game having quest markers too. What's the point in playing a game that is 90% exploration if they show you where to go?

One of the great things about the early Metroid games was that they managed to tell a story with no/very few words. Fusion has a ton of dialogue in comparison. Admittedly Fusion had a more complex premise than previous Metroid games but it's still has far more words than it needs. Also being told where to go does take away from the sense of isolation that Metroid games are known for.

I personally have no issue with Fusion trying something different, but it is so different from other Metroid games that it's understandable why some people dislike it.

Also Metroid was never really open world. Open world games encourage the player to go in any direction they want. Metroid games do the opposite, they encourage the player to go down a specific path, although in some games players can choose to go down a different path if they can master complex, optional techniques. With open world games, first-time players will often have a completely different experience. With Metroid games, first-time players almost always have the same first experience.

>>382595132

me to friend. remember when sames show her pusy after 100%

>>382593528
>Metroid II
>linear
Try playing the game before saying something so retarded

>>382595581
I believe the only quest markers in Samus Returns are when you've defeated all the Metroids in an area and need to return to the Chozo gate to lower the acid. You still need to find all the Metroids yourself.

AM2R was a mistake.

Fusion had god tier atmosphere, boss fights and villains.

My only gripe is the linearity.

>>382595581
Those are not quest markers in MSM. They are pins that you can put yourself on the map

>>382595936

and sound effects
and visual fidelity
and tunes

>>382595581
>show you where to go
>figure out how to get there

wow

>>382595262
Do you have more pictures like that?

Fusion is interesting in that while it's much, much more linear than past games, it did a good job of creating the illusion that you're breaking the rules, with areas like Sector 2 and the part where you finally reach that data room you're not 'supposed' to.

>>382596189
>thought i was breaking rules
>who said you could do that

pretty scary

>>382593528
If adam could just stop existing that would be great.

>>382596119
>figure out how to get there
>it's basically a straight path

Wow

>>382595581
Tons of lines means a lot of text.
Lines were pretty short actually.
A lot more than any other metroid tho, this mi can agree.

i love dhow they dared to do something different and played around them.
Like the section where you reach the data room you are not supposed to.

It plays nicely on the atmosphere and you actually feel like disobeying orders.

its more olinear, but in the end ALL metroids are completely linear. they just give the illussion of freedom not telling you where to go, but in the end you have a linear path carced trough your upgrades acquisition.

in the end nothing changes.

THE OFFICIAL LIST OF PROS AND CONS FOR METROID FUSION

>pros
1.) its linearity gives it the opportunity to be well-crafted in service of linear gameplay
2.) the story beats are pretty good (the reveal and chase scenes with the SA-X, the fact that blue X parasites wait until you can absorb them safely for the first time before trying to stay away from you

>cons
1.) it's a linear metroidvania game and the music that plays during the last stretch while you try to 100% everything is annoying as fuck

>>382596715
>its more olinear, but in the end ALL metroids are completely linear. they just give the illussion of freedom not telling you where to go, but in the end you have a linear path carced trough your upgrades acquisition.

Not true. Super Metroid has a lot of sequence breaking and skipping available, there's a lot of orders you can do things in. Zero Mission was designed so that you can win with only 15% of the pickups, skipping everything else.

>>382595936
A lot of the cool stuff wouldn't work without it though.
The first half is pretty straightforward but after that it's just event after event to deal with. Emergency in sector 3, power going out, nightmare breaking free, etc are all things that simply wouldn't work in a more open Metroid where you could run around whenever.

>>382595857
for its creator lol, not for the players

>>382596942

>cons

i know. this one is sad desu, game had some great themes. loved the underwater one.

>>382593528
The linearity isn't necessarily bad. The game plays more like an action game, and the evil Samus thing is badass. Notice how Samus in her weaker fusion suit has to hold her arm cannon, while evil Samus thing rests its hand on its arm cannon. Subtly genius. It would have been harder to pace encounters like that were the game less linear.

>>382596715
Sort of. Super had tons of branching rooms that opened up fairly early, and you actually had to explore things to find the next place to go. The same can not be said of fusion, which holds your hand way too tightly. Shame, really. Fusion had a great setting and atmosphere, and I could even deal with the dialogue if it just let you explore on your own. Obviously Ivwas exaggerating fusion being a bad game, but it just feels like one big missed opportunity to me.

>>382597313
this is true. I think fusion would have been best if it were the extended tutorial level for an exponentially larger 2D metroid game. we would have lost our shit

>>382597365
>>382596949
Fusion changes cards trying something different.
It trades sheer exploration for a more atmoshperic and plot-centric gameplay, while maintaining every other classic metroid aspect.

its different, but well crafted and i like it for that. Its a different chapter with his own heart instead of "just super metroid 2.0".

it dared to do something different while staying true to its legacy.

Like everything other M got COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG

>>382595797
>acid pools obstructing every path until you clear X number of metroids
>acid pools gradually decrease and permit passage to the next phase, where you're once again isolated from the rest of the game world
>"non-linear"

>>382597958
this, he's got your number

>>382596949
You're not supposed to get through the game by doing sequence breaks, just like you're not supposed to play SSBM with all that tech. It wasn't intentional, it just came out that way.

>>382597787
In fact maybe they tried something else BECAUSE they didn't think they could do the classic formula better than in SM.
Well, it was what the guy who made SM was thinking, pretty sure that fsion is by a completely different team though.

>>382598092
Sm was-and still is ihmo the pinnacle of action exploring games.

Making the same exact formula would have led to a good game maybe, but it would have been just "more of the same", which is boring both to the players and expecially to the developers.

While you can like it or not, Fusion made something different while staying good, and I personally love it for this.
have I already said FUCK OTHER M?
The thing that rustles me more is that the gameplay is not even terrible. i kinda liked it.
But everything else....
It just feels like a wasted opportunity.

>>382597787
Idk, maybe that's why I don't like it. When I get a sequel, I want the core of the game to be the same. Changes that affect how the game is played that much should be new IPs or spinoffs. When I buy an established IP, I'm expecting a certain experience.

>>382597787
Fusion is just Other M-lite. A lot of the reasons why people hate Other M can be applied to Fusion to some extent. Other M had a lot of flaws, I'm sure I don't need to list them for you. But you can't claim "OTHER M WAS THE WORST GAME EVER AND KILLED THE SERIES" while holding Fusion in high regard.

>>382598669
>>382598730
gameplay in Fusion is top notch.
it sacrificed some exploration freedom to add other things(sa-x encounters, advancing narrative trough the game), but the core gameplay is the same and feels the same.
Plot was good but didn't took away too much time from the gameplay itself(dialogues were pretty short).You still have good vertical/horizontal map design, great samus control, good upgrades, great bosses(fuggen nightmare), incredible OST, alien and claustrophobic atmoshphere(which reminded me of the first).
It still feels Metroid.

Other M...Other M had a few really good ideas(3d/2d)shoved into a sea of SHIT.

Dodge on the movement button meant a lot of time you dodged attacks you didn't mean to

level design was a lot worse than every other M game, beign mostly horizontal corridors with every now and then a branch

levels looked incredibly generic and nothing felt alien or simply good, "lol generic lava level", "lol generic ice level"

AUTO FUCKING AIM

story is shit, characters are SUPER SHIT, cutscenes drag on FOREVER without beign interesting or even without having the narrative progress.

Samus is now a retarded bimbo with adam stripped away of his "I respect you silently"role"beign simply an asshole tsundere

CANT USE UPGRADES, LOL

no new weapon/upgrade

bad monster design

Bad bosses

cant remember the ost actually

FIND THE PIXES CUTSCENE LOL, WASTE 40 MINUTES

you find who is the real final boss in a cutscene.
THEN A NIGGER BARGES IN AND KILLES IT
WHY

i can go on, but other M is NOTHING like fusion.
anyone who thinks Fusion is like other M understands nothing of video games.

have your (you)

>>382598730
I wouldn't call fusion Other M-lite so much as I'd call Other M a shittier rehash of Fusion.

the story and the linearity of the map are very similar. But Fusion's gameplay, music, map design are leagues above OM. And Fusion's story wasn't nearly as pants on head retarded, either.

>>382598092

I'm pretty sure Super and Fusion were by the same team, who probably didn't have all that much of a creative license in either case. Fusion's linearity is probably just executive oversight. The team can only produce what it's told to produce.

You'll notice plenty of similarities when it comes to hidden upgrades. Many of the same tricks and techniques found in Super are needed in Fusion.

>>382593528
Fusion is fun. Hoping that, one day, there is a game that happens after it story wise.

Still waiting for this ROM hack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO-x7j5RyGc&index=10&list=PLZS_o9tqWHmJHGmuQRRkfiqhgZIApfLXM

>>382599860
Why did you reply to my post? I didn't say anything about Other M. I think I made a fair point, Fusion should have been a spinoff. The arguement that some of the elements in the game wouldn't have worked with open exploration is silly. Explain how SA-X chases couldn't have been done without quest markers and pointless exposition.

It wasn't Super.

Really Fusion is what Color Splash is today. People hate it for being so different, but don't acknowledge what works really well. Namely the SA-X and horror elements.

>>382599860
All of Fusion's atmosphere goes out of the window during your second playthrough. Since everything is scripted, all the SA-X encounters lacks the tension. There's also a ton of dialogue that gets particularly annoying on subsequent playthroughs since you can't skip it. The BSL doesn't feel like a living, breathing world that you're exploring, unlike Zebes or Tallon IV. Samus has no vertical momentum in Fusion (unlike Super) and the wall-jumping mechanics are butchered to the point that they may as well not have included them. The OST is decent considering the GBA's shitty soundchip but it's still one of the weaker Metroid soundtracks. The map design would have been okay if they didn't destroy half the hatches and render the map incorrect a lot of the time.

Fusion certainly wasn't bad, but it's far from the pinnacle of the series. Take off the nostalgia goggles.

>>382595936
every boss in fusion is a joke except the spider in terms of difficulty sadly

>>382600956
Just like every other metroid game then

This thread made me want to play metroid. The question is: Super, ZM or Fusion?

>>382601391
all of them

>>382601391
Considering Super is the only one of those above a 7/10, I'd play that. There's a shitload of good romhacks for it too.

>>382600956
A lot of the bosses in Fusion fucking destroyed me, like the last fight with the Security Robot, Nightmare, and the Giant Spider. Only Ridley and the whole section leading up to him was challenging in Super.

>>382600751
>All of Fusion's atmosphere goes out of the window during your second playthrough. Since everything is scripted, all the SA-X encounters lacks the tension.
Pretty much. The SA-X is pretty fucking stupid too. The only thing on its side is that it's a power house if it manages to land a hit or two on you.

>the wall-jumping mechanics are butchered to the point that they may as well not have included them
Most of the time you can't even use it to any potential. Doesn't matter anyway because you are usually railroaded. I believe there is only one optional instance where you can use it to get some missile power up which can be seen in the demo on the title screen. Otherwise, it's useless.

>render the map incorrect a lot of the time.
Mmm... I wouldn't say render incorrect. More like the maps were rendered incomplete and hid a lot of shit. I'm thinking sector 2 in particular.

All that shit said, I can still whip this game out today and have fun with it. It's a fun game. If you want to talk about shitty Metroid games then look at Metroid Prime Hunters.

>>382600956
>spider
git gud

>>382601445
This

>>382593528
It's a great linear action game made for a series that's mostly known for being fun adventure games built around exploration.

A lot of Metroid fans are very particular about Metroid not leaving the template of Super Metroid.

>>382600751
never said it the pinnacle of the series, which i think everyone agrees its SM.
I said its my personal favourite, which is different.
Also you cant say"its shit because subsequent playtrough are worse" because this applies for most games.
Its a great game which took away some things to add other elements.

>>382600956
wrong
remember nightmare
>>382601645
>look at Metroid Prime Hunters.
I..i had fun with it.
The multiplayer was good and playing it on the ds was supoer comfy.

>>382593528
>Both games were still good on their own merits

Both of them fucking suck though.

>especially Fusion with its detailed cutscenes, chases and plot developments.

Oh, this is bait, carry on then.

>>382601445
In what order?

>>382601645
Don't talk shit about Prime Hunters you motherfucker

>>382600956

The security bot and Nightmare always give me trouble.

Also, Japan got multiple difficulty settings since Fusion was released in that region later for some reason. Fusion on Hard mode is a lot more challenging than it should be. It enforces upgrade restrictions similar to what was used in Zero Mission (i.e. fewer max missiles and energy per upgrade)

>>382601934
>>382602031
Multiplayer (local and internet) was perfectly fine excluding the hackers at the end and the shutting down of WFC. As a single player game, it left a lot to be desired.

>>382601968
release order.
Super Metroid -> Fusion -> ZM

>>382600751
>The BSL doesn't feel like a living, breathing world that you're exploring, unlike Zebes or Tallon IV
I can understand that Fusion feels too scripted on your second playthrough, which hurts the game since its built around defying your expectations and surprising you. I don't get how that compares poorly to Zebes or Tallon IV though.

Nothing on Zebes or Tallon IV happens until the player makes it happen. The Space Pirates will never find another artifact they don't already have, enemies never leave their dedicated boss room, the threat you're fighting is one that's already been on the planet and won't budge until you open the final level yourself. They're stagnant worlds, and being able to sequence break them only reassures how devoid of initiative every other creature on the planet is since they'll always be waiting for you in one spot.

The scripted elements of games like Fusion, Echoes and Corruption do wonders for making the game worlds feel more lived in, even if its tied to one sequence. It's a good balance too, as randomized elements such as the other hunters in Hunters wouldn't mesh well with the main series' gameplay. Imagine how shitty speedrunning a game would be if an invincible enemy like the SA-X could spawn in any random room at any time and kill all your momentum.

>>382602479
Agree.
I liked the single player for what it was anyway, not expecting much it was okay.
i liked the control scheme tho.

>>382602550
>I can understand that Fusion feels too scripted on your second playthrough, which hurts the game since its built around defying your expectations and surprising you. I don't get how that compares poorly to Zebes or Tallon IV though.
>Nothing on Zebes or Tallon IV happens until the player makes it happen. The Space Pirates will never find another artifact they don't already have, enemies never leave their dedicated boss room, the threat you're fighting is one that's already been on the planet and won't budge until you open the final level yourself. They're stagnant worlds, and being able to sequence break them only reassures how devoid of initiative every other creature on the planet is since they'll always be waiting for you in one spot
this is also correct.

>>382602550
But enemies aren't random in traditional metroid games. There's no reason Fusion couldn't have been more open and still had one time scripted events like SA-X. That being said, I think you're right about them making the world feel more alive, and there's no reason a more traditional metroid couldn't have them either.

File: 1494624881116.jpg (632KB, 1035x1035px) Image search: [Google]

632KB, 1035x1035px

post moar maps

>>382601934
I beat nightmare on the first try when i was eight years old. Yakuza spider slapped my shit on the other hand.

>>382593528
Its plot was ass, Samus was a dumb bitch sucking Adam's robot penis virtually every monologue or piece of dialogue she had, linear as fuck, etc.

Really fusion plays like a movie, taking it off rails would be taking the wind from its sails.

>>382595462
Anon. Fusion did that first. Just reread the script and see how often Samus had to be told by Adam that she disobeyed his pimp hand & unleashed the X onto a new area or another fuckup whenever she didn't listen.

WHY IS RIDLEY X SO FUCKING LOUD

HOW DID THEY HAVE A FROZEN RIDLEY ANYWAY

The destination marker maintains the pace and aside from the first couple times it consistently subverts expectation of how it will be reached

>>382606412
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJTux6dikOM
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

File: 1365355963680.jpg (12KB, 212x204px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 212x204px

>>382598730

>Fusion is just Other M-lite. A lot of the reasons why people hate Other M can be applied to Fusion to some extent.

The single, laziest shitposting "criticim"
of Fusion that tries to make a big statement while saying nothing at all.

Other M has absolutely nothing on Fusion beside skin deep similarities with how the story is handled.

>>382606607
It's the linearity, story focus, and Adam. That's it. Otherwise they aren't alike at all.

>>382606607
>>382607182
read >>382599860
here
the only "similarity" is that other M uses Fusion characters like Adam and its more linear.

>>382607470
Yeah that's what I said.

>>382606607
The navigation rooms, the awful linearity, the terrible characterization, the whole Feds = Weyland Yutani, awful.

>>382607967
read here again, saying "awful"without actually explaining why its bad is just shit.
>>382599860

>Feds cloning metroids to use as weapons
>Feds cloning ridley to use as weapons
>Feds cloning X parasites to use as weapons
>Biomechanical mechs to use as weapons
>Speed booster beastie, again used as a weapon
>NIGHTMARE

jesus fuck what is with the feds

>>382608350
they like weapons.
And cloning.

>>382608526
Wait, didn't they also clone Mother Brain?

>>382608350
Bad writing.
I hope whatever Metroid 5 is resolves the Evil Federation plotline so we can move on from it forever.

>>382608098
People already did that for me.
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/380664732/#380667267
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/376886452/#376912169
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/377541136/#377555725

>>382608740
Its fun because these are shit points, and don't even talk about the game.
>waaaah i don't like the feds beign bad!
>waaah why Samus decides to blow the base sacrificng herself? waaaha its retarded

if these are the only bad points you could find on Fusion, then thank you for proving my point.
>>382608579
Didnt fit on their fetish, I guess.

File: Bounty_hunters.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO...
>second time
So Prime 3 doesn't count?

>>382609328
>Defending weyland yutani ripoff
>Defending retarded actions
I bet you defend Other M.

>>382609357
The Aurora Units were more like U-Mos, asking Samus for assistance, than Commanding Officers giving her direct unquestionable orders.

>>382609357
Fusion came out first. Also Sakamoto doesn't care much for the Prime games.

>>382609551
Not him but it's not (and never was) the worst Metroid game. Hunters and Fed Force are worse.

>>382609328
Anon, you didn't answer those at all. They say that much of Fusion did terrible things to Samus Aran's character.

>>382606134
well good job, but if you couldn't initially get the timing right on his third stage when he starts flying around he became a huge hassle, shaving off practically a full goddamn energy tank every time he so much as nudges you

I never understood why he even bothered having laser weapons when he inexplicably did more damage just drifting around the screen and bumping into you

>>382594510
This.

>>382593528
Bad color palette.
Ugly character design.
Poorly drawn sprite.
Ice missiles where a mistake.
Uninteresting dialog.
Linearity.

>detailed cutscenes
Are you fucking high?

Honestly I felt like Fusion was less linear than Zero Mission. It had a hub, but each area it connected to felt more open than Zero Mission did overall.

>>382609684
The human characters gave Samus various orders.

But it was fun.

>>382608350
They had Samus get Mother Brain out of the way so that they would be unopposed.

>>382608579
Mother brain was a Chozo super computer merged with biomass. I don't think the federation could replicate that if they tried.

>>382609875
Zero Mission is ridiculously linear if you're playing for the first time and following the main sequence.

The entire game is full of hidden shortcuts though. All you need to beat the game are the morph ball, bomb, 1 missile pack, ice beam, power grip and three unknown items. Everything else is skippable, with most bosses being avoidable or doable out of order.

>>382610019
Did we really need the Federation to become this Weyland yutani clone? They weren't like this in any game besides Fusion, Other M or maybe fed force. It's like with Doom's USC in Doom 4.

>>382609814
>Bad color palette.
>Ugly character design.
>Poorly drawn sprite.
>Linearity
Zero Mission was all of those thing x5
Fusion is an extremely good title for a handheld game, maybe not as a Metroid game, but still good. Zero Mission just took Original Metroid and made it piss easy, slapped shitty mnaga lore on it, and threw a forced zero suit cutscene in for a tacked on stealth segment.

>>382593528
Fusion wasn't divisive.

The suit was ugly and it was kinda easy with the mission objectives, but it made sense within the context of the game. It didn't bother me personally, but fags who are too dumb to appreciate story will hate it. Zero Mission is the perfect compromise between both groups.

Adam is, and always will be a dumb character though.

>>382605694

thanks doc

>>382610461
Zero Mission's visual design is a lot better than Fusion's. Fusion was no more difficult. And what ZM lacked in difficulty, it made up with level design. Made with sequence breaking in mind, it's a fun challenge to see how many items you can skip and still beat it. Adds a lot of replayability. Something Fusion lacked.

>>382610743
>Fusion was no more difficult
Zero Mission is piss easy because of overpowered Super Missiles, they make the game baby mode even on hard.

>>382609551
You are just retarded and haven't even read my fucking post.
>>382609761
two posts out of three are just a few lines saying "ITS WAYLAND YUTANI RIPOFF IT SUCKS", while the third post simply rants on Samus stupidity for following orders while she could have find other ways to do things.

Also what character? she had no character othe rthan "badass space bounty hunter". in fusion she still is that, but has a bit more character when she recalls the figure of Adam, which is not the tsundere asshole of Other M but a father-like figure she respected and had fond memories of.
And thats all.

>>382609551
Metroid is literally derivative from Alien.
First metroid took a huge insipration from the claustrophobic atmosphere of the film and tried to replicate it in vidya.

Also "bad feds"is NOT something alien invented nor something only Alien used.>>382610402
federation had barely any relevance in earlier games so you didn't really know if it was good or evil.
>>382610461
>orced zero suit cutscen
zero suit ruined samus more than other M ever will.
its sad.
>>382610578
I..i liked the suit.
the idea of a bio-mechanical suite was creepy and fit in fusion horror theme.
on my first playtrough tought I would get the varia mid game tho, kinda disappointed when you simply got the usual colour change.

>>382610578
>appreciate the story
They could have told it in a less linear way. They could have shown more & said less. They showed the SAX well. They could have done the rest.

File: 1495825973531.jpg (181KB, 475x608px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 475x608px

>>382610991
>My Little Anon cannot be this triggered

>>382610991
>i..i liked the suit
Me too. I thought it looked snazzy.

>>382610893
>He doesn't do 15% Hard runs.

>>382611264
Is this like how people say MGSV is hard if you play every mission naked because the devs can't implement a decent challenge themselves?

>>382610991
I'm pretty sure the other guy read enough to reply.

I think you didn't read these. Both are complaints about the changes in characterization of Samus and GF (which admittedly wasn't the most established). What we knew previous was that the GF were some decent people who protect the galaxy, sent Samus to Metroid 1 & 2 & wanted to use the Baby Metroid to help people. Now they're evil warmongers who want to use the Metroids & X for weapons. Samus spent every previous game alone & no support. She thought for herself as she did all those games. In Fusion, she always listened to Adam. Another thing that mentioned is the negativity she gets when she doesn't listen to Adam. Girl's discouraged to think for herself.

>>382611167
>I have no arguments, so here have a reaction pic and a "triggered" response.
Haha, sure I showed him!

kys plz

File: 15hard ending.png (85KB, 240x413px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 240x413px

>>382611367

The game actually acknowledges that kind of run, though, unless most other "self imposed challenge" playthroughs.

>>382611367
15% runs are built into Zero Mission, they're not a self imposed challenge.

You get unique endings for doing them and the maps have hidden alternate routes to allow for the player to skip most items.

>>382594510

I really like Fusion too despite them changing the physics to make certain jumps impossible. The bosses are numerous and difficult, the atmosphere is scary for a GBA game and the super ice missiles are so fucking satisfying.

My only gripe is for some reason I hate the ARC deck its such a slog and I dont know why.

>>382611676
>my anon cannot actually respond and must say others didn't read

>>382610991
>fusion she still is that, but has a bit more character when she recalls the figure of Adam, which is not the tsundere asshole of Other M but a father-like figure she respected and had fond memories of.
And thats all.

Fusion Samus admitted that adam was a gruff guy. The a.i. was an asshole when it wasn't commanding.

>>382594687
It's not a dumb term. It exists for a reason. Half of the non-linearity in Super Metroid was completely accidental due to numerous glitchs/exploits that could be done that were unforeseen. So obviously Super was the "first". But SOTN was the first game to intentionally give you that level of freedom. And even then some glitches can still allow complete freedom in SOTN. The major point is that they were the first two games and SOTN refined the formula and added real optoins in the form of many RPG and weapon mechanics.

File: 8YizJZ5.jpg (57KB, 373x346px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 373x346px

Which Samus has the best body?

>>382612441
Metroid 1 gave you that level of freedom.

>>382611673
>m pretty sure the other guy read enough to reply.
he didn't, 2/3rd of my post were on how other M is a pile of shit.
>>382609551
>I bet you defend Other M.

see? he didn't read a fucking single word.>>382611673
>hat we knew previous was that the GF were some decent people who protect the galaxy, sent Samus to Metroid 1 & 2 & wanted to use the Baby Metroid to help people
its literally the plot twist of the game that they were evil.
>>382611673
>In Fusion, she always listened to Adam
because she's forced to. she was literally on her own on alien ground on the last games.
>>382611673
>Another thing that mentioned is the negativity she gets when she doesn't listen to Adam. Girl's discouraged to think for herself.
it's not "girls discouraged to think for herself", its a way to make the player hate that fucking AI hard, so the final revelation that the AI is Adam hits even harder.
Its a common trope in storytelling and an effective one.
>>382612072
the whole point on the Ai beign an asshole while she remembers Adam like a great, if gruuf guy is that the player is less inclined to associate the two.

>>382597157
I wouldn't say even for the dev. It's a great project and he already has a good job and a family. For awhile he would go without doing much work for a couple of months because of his job and family life. IMO, I think it was like that high school/college project that he started and always finished. And it ended up in people's hands anyways, regardless of Nintendo's shenanigans. So honestly if I were him, I'd be happy knowing I finished my dream and just so happened to make a great legacy to boot. And given Nintendo's track record Samus Returns is going to be utter shit, so AM2R is still gonna be the definitive experience.

>>382612850
>>382597157
>and always finished
I meant, "always wanted to finish".

>>382594342
I liked Adam, everything they said about him in Fusion made him seem like a pretty cool guy and then Other M made me hate him.

>>382611894
>I hate the ARC deck its such a slog and I dont know why.

Because outside of the SA-X encounter, the first two trips have nothing going on. The routes are nearly the same, and iirc they're the only missions that don't have boss fights.

>>382596942
>1.) it's a linear metroidvania game and the music that plays during the last stretch while you try to 100% everything is annoying as fuck

Jesus this. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea? Just let me hear the rest of the OST.

>>382612980
The only version of Adam I like at all is the manga one.

>>382612980
That's because Adam wasn't offensively bad. Initially he was just the guy who gave you missions and Samus only deferred to his assignments because she was on contract. But when the GF told her to back off of BSL because they wanted to use the X and Samus told the GF to fuck off, Adam heard her side of the argument and assisted her and even used his "perfect military mind" to show Samus how to do her mission better. Samus and Adam complimented each other. Not the bullshit that was in MOM.

>>382605694
It's too bad that devs/pubs don't want to make games like this anymore unless they are indie. It was a miracle we got a game as large as Hollow Knight, even with it's freedom. It would be amazing to have a massively sequence breakable 2D metroid game made by the pros who did Super, but with twice this size of a map. I'm fairly certain, based on Hollow Knight's game world, that this kind of shit isn't that expensive and with a larger studio, could really make something tremendous and advanced.

>>382593528
It's fucking awesome but a bit lacking on the atmosphere and isolation department.

>>382612828
Not really. Your other notes were about zero suit, Alien & bad grammar. They weren't much of anything.

It being a twist doesn't save things. It's like Shaymalan. Oddly, I don't think any other Metroid game besides those few follow it. The Prime games had some good people as GF soldiers. Was only their science team evil?

No, the reason she listened to Adam, besides gameplay reasons, was because of what the game mentioned about her mission & former CO. Samus is very capable of independent action in unfamiliar territory. The various space pirate bases she been to weren't places she knew like the back of her own hand.

>>382613574
At first I thought it's because devs were stupid that games were linear now. But after a while I realized that wasn't the case. It's the player.

http://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-clues-hints/

>"People would just walk around during playtesting of the 'Lady Boyle' mission," Dishonored executive producer Julien Roby said. "They didn't know what to do. They didn't even go upstairs because a guard told them they couldn't. They'd say, 'Okay, I can't go upstairs.' They wouldn't do anything."

>Roby explained that a few clues now nudge Corvo along his noble mission of sinking his dagger into his target, saying, "We try not to lead the player by the nose, but at some point we found that if we don't give a little information, people just get lost and don't know what to do. It's just overwhelming. So we tried to add this element that gave just a hint to help a little. But we try to do it as little as possible."

>>382612828
>its a way to make the player hate that fucking AI hard, so the final revelation that the AI is Adam hits even harder.
>the whole point on the Ai beign an asshole while she remembers Adam like a great, if gruuf guy is that the player is less inclined to associate the two

So I was supposed to blame the game on Adam? That's like saying Star Wars Episode 7 was an attempt to make me hate all the characters.

>>382613823
Every time I see any article or account involving playtesters it makes me think they just get the dumbest people alive to do it

>>382613823
>tfw people complaining about why they can't crawl in Super Metroid

File: valve playtester.jpg (262KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 1280x1024px

>>382613823

File: y.jpg (303KB, 1608x1796px) Image search: [Google]

303KB, 1608x1796px

>>382614048
What a time to be alive that was.

Granted these are probably literal children but assuming their playtesters are the appropriate age group for an M rated game they must have something wrong with them

>>382613823
Yeah, but that's the devs responsibility to take the risk and try to change audiences. People didn't like hard before Dark Souls, then suddenly it was okay to be hard again. You can change player expectations if you do it properly.

Dishonored's problem was that it did a piss poor job setting new expectations in players because it opens like every other cinematic garbage game that's existed for the past 8 years. It's better than those games, but it needed to not be on rails at the beginning. They needed to build that kind of courage in players.

>>382614207
No offense but some people do have a shit sense of direction. I know several people who can't even remember directions to places they've been 3 times before.

>>382613997
Thats exactly what they do. They pull random jerkoffs off the street that have never played a video game more complex than shit they get on the app store because they want their game to be accessible.

>>382612716
True, but I'm pretty sure most people never actually played that game to completion, or really at all. Most people got in with Super.

>>382613637
read again then>>382599860

>>382613637
>It being a twist doesn't save things. It's like Shaymalan.
Its nothing like shaymaymsaylyan.
(bad)Shay's films are centered around a plot twist which decide the flow of the film, which is bad because you cannot appreciate it until the end.
fusion bossy Ai was integrated in the gameplay to justify the linearity(something actually telling you what to do)to maintain the flow of the game.
Which made it more linear, but we already discussed it.
>>382613637
>Oddly, I don't think any other Metroid game besides those few follow it. The Prime games had some good people as GF soldiers. Was only their science team evil?
probably.
i mean, the Gf literally saved Samus at the beginning of the game. Gf is a federation, not a dictatorship ruled by one evil men. Its made by a lot of branches and a lot of people. its never explained but the plot twist of it beign evil is unexpected and it works in Fusio, without it having to be a recurrent thing.
>>382613823
this makes me sad.
i remember nintendo putting on a demo of the first Mario and kids couldnt go past half the first level.
SAD!
>>382614235
>their playtesters are the appropriate age group for an M rated game they must have something wrong with them
Sadly not. Mature "gamers" are even worse.
Remember nu-Doom?
>>382614726
Dark souls is a niche game, and its made for japs.
Dishonored is made for westerners and its an AAA title, which means it has to be appealing to a bigger audience.

>>382611367
>implying they couldnt implement a decent challenge themselves
the lowest common denominator hates challenging gameplay
most people think fucking super mario world is a decent challenge

File: 1476852550852.jpg (461KB, 900x1179px) Image search: [Google]

461KB, 900x1179px

>>382612480
Super Samus

>>382594687
2D Castlevania hasn't been linear since Rondo of Blood

>>382612716
While this may be true, the problem is that unlike Super and SOTN, Metroid 1 doesn't actually require any abilities to play through the game and there are beams that are completely optional because you just replace your beam. It doesn't have the tenants of using abilities to make progress like most of these styles of games have.

There are some optional items/powerups you can get by using items but almost every place can be reached without any upgrades, just shooting/bombing walls away (except obviously ball and bomb.

>muh linearity
>muh sequence breaking

The wall jump broke Super Metroid, it wasn't intentionally designed to be so nonlinear

>>382611367

X% is a canon element with Metroid games. They usually reward you with unlockables for getting through the games with under a certain percentage of items.

>>382615431
You're an idiot. Super was designed so that a newbie could beat it linearly with no special techniques and infinite wall and bomb jumping allowed people of higher skill level to sequence break. Yokoi had it designed that way.

>>382615047
So another post. Okay. It's not very good. The gameplay wasn't top-notch, the wall jumping was gimped, the linearity was mentioned many times, lots of reasons people listed.

The plot was bad & took away greatly. This wasn't Super Metroids where so much was seen & not told. You were told so much. Where to go, about the bosses, about anything. As those others mentioned, Samus was either super subservient to Adam or she was an idiot. That's not good characterization.

This is very Shaymalan like. All the sudden the rescue mission was about bio weapons. The only reason you're combatting the X is to eliminate threats for incoming GF retrieval or similar. Even saving Samus at the start of the game was for her to go on the Fusion mission.

We didn't discuss jack. Super Metroid managed to maintain a flow. It didn't have Adam telling the player where to go. Metroid Prime did too. You get new items & now older areas with doors you previously couldn't reach or open can now be opened. Fusion was telling you how to do everything. There was much less discovery on the player's side. It's like if someone played a visual novel with a flowchart.

>>382616156
Source senpai?

>>382611762
>>382611796
>>382615809
>Anon can't reply because he never played the game he is criticizing

>>382617129
Hey I'm wondering now, what's the lowest percentage you guys got for Super Metroid?

>>382617461
We need enough energy to survive Laser brain attack don't we?

>>382613574
>pros who did Super

Sakamoto directed Super and it's hard to trust him

Intelligent Systems actually made Super and it's hard to trust them with anything now too.

What non-Metroid metroidvania is best?

File: sad keanu.jpg (92KB, 529x687px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 529x687px

>super missiles have cool sound, anim and screen shake
>ice missiles take it all away

I'll never not be upset about this. Ice/Diff missiles are cool too but at what cost?

>>382593528
I liked Fusion.
The linearity worked based on the plot. You are not exploring an unknown enviroment but a Federation facility.
The Federation basically forces Samus to explore determined areas to avoid her getting to know about the Metroid experiments and even if she is a bounty hunter she respects the Federation to not disobey their instructions.
I think it's a neat concept and works okay.

>>382618034
sotn

EMERGENCY IN SECTOR 3

>>382618303
Literally this, I'd even go so far as to say it's my second favorite in the series, best being super metroid of course

>>382618034
CotM. SotN is for casuals.

>>382618914
NO ACCESS WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION

>>382593528

Metroid 2 was linear but still gave you new tricks like Spider Ball. fusion was linear but intentionally gimped wall jumping and bomb jumping. I don't think it had any new abilities either, unless you count ice and diffusion missiles, which really don't do anything unique.

So Fusion feels more like a stripped down Super Metroid with training wheels,whereas Metroid 2 doesn't feel like a stripped down Metroid 1 with training wheels?

>>382619836
New abilities from Fusion are ice missiles, diffusion missiles, ledge-grabbing, wall/ceiling climbing.

>>382619990
And the ability to Shinespark into a slope to go back into a Speed Boost

>>382619697
Why does Fusion Varia suit look like barf?

>>382608350
I wonder how Nintendo will feel about letting Samus kill other humans when it comes time to throw it down with the feds.

>>382619836
There was nothing to strip down from Metroid 1

Plus Fusion was on the GBA and not a console. Some changes were probably made due to being a game made to be played in spurts. Similar reason to why Metroid 2 was the way it was

>>382620121
I blame the fact that everything had to be super saturated on GBA. The artwork for it isn't nearly as bad as the in-game sprite.

>>382596623
but if its a straight path then why does it matter if there are markers or not?

>>382593528
I enjoyed it for what it was, I liked it for the same reasons liked Halo 4's campaign because it humanized the main character in a likable way. I also found both fun, even if I liked the past entries better.

Started playing Fusion because of this thread.

>Normal, but slightly long opening
No big deal
>HEY SAMUS GO TO THE QUARANTINE BAY, BUT STOP BY THE NAVIGATION ROOM
>HEY SAMUS, I JUST SHOWED YOU THE QUARANTINE BAY LITERALLY 30 SECONDS AGO BUT HERE IT IS AGAIN
Okay.
>YOU WENT TO THE QUARANTINE BAY? COOL, LET ME RECAP THE OPENING THAT YOU JUST SAW A MINUTE AGO. THERE ARE ENEMIES IN THIS ROOM I MARKED ON YOUR MAP, GO THERE NOW, BUT STOP BY THIS IMPASSABLE NAVIGATION ROOM ON YOUR WAY THERE
>CHANGE OF PLANS, GO DOWNLOAD MISSILES FROM THIS QUEST MARKER INSTEAD, AND STOP BY ANOTHER IMPASSABLE NAVIGATION ROOM
>REMEMBER THOSE MISSILES I TOLD YOU ABOUT 30 SECONDS AGO? THEY'RE IN THE NEXT ROOM THAT I ALREADY MARKED ON YOUR MAP, BUT I HAD TO TELL YOU AGAIN

Just fucking garbage. I didn't remember it being so b

>>382606323

You're forgetting that Adam's secret goal in Fusion was to facilitate the spread of the X virus to study it and the SA-X in a live environment, and he kept blaming Samus and sending her on chases after less prominent threats just to keep her busy while he continued to study SA-X. And how Samus used Adam's memories buried within the AI to convince it to disobey its directives so she could destroy the station and kill the X virus and cloned metroids for good. Their relationship was A LOT more interesting in Fusion.

>>382620902
>REMEMBER THOSE MISSILES I TOLD YOU ABOUT 30 SECONDS AGO? THEY'RE IN THE NEXT ROOM THAT I ALREADY MARKED ON YOUR MAP, BUT I HAD TO TELL YOU AGAIN

To be fair you can completely skip that one and just grab the missiles.

>>382620902

It's teaching you how the Navigation rooms and the map system works. It's an awkward tutorial, but it's there to help new players. It stops being so bad after the initial area.

Because kiddos who grew up with a GBA overrate the fuck out of it without having played Super Metroid. Know its place and suddenly no division happens.

>>382593528
>So why is Fusion such a divisive sequel?

Autists gonna autist. I loved Fusion for what it was and I think they made the right call dividing up the game the way they did. People forget that this is a PORTABLE game, intended to be played in short bursts. So it's delivered in a nicely paced, piecemeal way to give you sufficient stopping points and to insure that even if you have to stop without saving you won't lose much progress.

Metroid 2 did this as well, it separated the game into easily digestible areas so you could stop and start as needed in short bursts of playtime.

It's easy for westerners (particularly Americans outside of metropolitan cities) to forget that in Japan people actually do take their portable system with them and just play it for 20-30 minutes here and there, on the train and such. I personally just sat at home with my Game Boy, but I recognize that portable games need to be designed for a portable playstyle, and Metroid Fusion did just that. Even Zero Mission did that with its waypoints and gating; it broke the game into chunks so you could start and stop easily.

>>382622198
as an american, I never considered that

>>382621374
If that was the plan & not just isolate the X for retrieval, they already had enough. They had cameras & navigation rooms everywhere. The various threats handled were either lesser threats or otherwise screwing with the space station. In fact, the plan changed near the end and they realized that they could stop sending Samus power ups. He also could gotten Samus killed if she proved to be too detrimental to the plan.

Their Fusion relationship was little more than obeying orders, occasional criticism of Samus' actions & then hero worship. Adam even criticized the Adam Samus idolized during their conversation. Fusion Samus couldn't stop seeing him better than even Adam saw himself.

>>382622294

>never considered that portable games are usually conceived with portability in mind

Dumb murican.

>>382622786
Americans are the ones that made Metroid as popular as it is

We need another console 2D game someday. Super really was the last one

>>382622786

To be fair, in 90% of America people drive to get everywhere and have little to no public transportation. Portable consoles are usually only played at home here. The response to the portability of the Switch wasn't "I'm looking forward to taking this places," it was, "I'm looking forward to being able to play in other rooms or in bed or on the toilet."

>>382622905
This. Visuals and gameplay really do shine on consoles better with proper color palettes and the extra processing to render things well.

SOTN and Super benefited greatly from being one consoles of their time. I'm not saying we should adopt more of that 2.5D shit. That's disgusting. But we should definitely see where we can go with some modest use of 3D and REALLY good sprite art. Despite the sprites being "cleaner" in Zero Mission, Super Metroid still looks better because of the fluid animation work and the fact that more dynamic things could be going on in every environments background and foreground.

Which of the GBA/DS Castlevania games do Metroid fans think are the best? I've Heard Symphony of the Night is obviously the Best, followed by Harmony and Aria, followed by Dawn and Portrait, with Circle not being very good

>>382624489
unfortunately REALLY good sprite art is much more expensive than 3D, so we probably won't be seeing anymore 2D by nintendo again

>>382624630
Well certainly a compromise could be met. No reason for it to be super realistic, obviously. But despite this, bigger developers have the budget. They would have spent it otherwise on outlandish realism in a 3D game, so why not in a 2D game which could be more suited to a specific art style. Super Metroid is a darker looking Metroid than most, but it didn't look entirely realistic either but it managed to look good enough. You don't really have to go all the way for it to be acceptable to people compared to 3D where even the smallest issue of texture resolution gets everyone's panties in a knot.

>>382624532
dawn is a fucking disgrace.

>beat boss
>QUICK GET YOUR STYLUS AND DO SOME WAGGLAN TIER SHIT

por and ooe are both very good tho

>>382625534
OoE is similar to Fusion in some ways now that I think about It.

(︶︿︶) <(Fusion was a great game)

(O︿o) <(Whoever says otherwise)

(·︿·) <(Is a filthy damn liar)

>>382624532
You heard wrong. Circle of the Moon I'd the best one. They're all good although Harmony of Dissonance and Portrait of Ruin are the lesser of the bunch. Just avoid Mirror of Fate.

>>382625534
You're not on a time limit until you actually start drawing. You can take as much time as you want getting the stylus out.
But it was a stupid mechanic.

>>382625870
lmao xD I agree great post fellow anon-ee-muss ^.^

>>382622198

There's nothing stopping you from starting and stopping super Metroid. You're never more than like 20 seconds away from a save point.

>>382624261
>Portable consoles are usually only played at home here.

If I'm at home I play on PC. For me, portable consoles are played at work if I can get away with it.

>>382620902
you realize you don't have to stop in a naviguation room if the doors stay open, right? annoying as those interactions are, some of those you listed were optional

>>382624532
>I've Heard Symphony of the Night is obviously the Best
Kill yourself.

>>382629492
Holy shit, talk about overreaction

>>382615279
Adventure rebirth says hi

>>382630174
>Remake of a Gameboy game nobody played

Yeah, series basically became the second half of Metroidvania after Symphony of the Night

Is Fusion divisive? I never played it but my brother did, and my memory of it is that its still regarded as one of the best entries in the series.

>>382630807
>OoE
>Metroidvania

>>382593528
It is my favorite Metroid game but >>382594325
sums it up perfectly. Too much dialogue. They should have had a faster way to skip it at least.

>>382610715
Kek

>>382593528
Metroid II didn't have droning monologue cutscenes after every 30 minutes of gameplay. They also weren't as setpiece driven (which is a bad thing, because Fusion's setpieces are top tier)

>>382630883
Yes. It was a lot more divisive back in the day though.

File: Pinhead.jpg (86KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 1920x1080px

>>382612850
Whiny AM2R babby detected.
>And given Nintendo's track record Samus Returns is going to be utter shit
Yeah, no. More like "cause I want it to fail for the sake of my fanfic bootleg". Cringe.