This games biggest flaw is that it's just so fucking uncreative.

>playing an indie game

it's your own damn fault

2D indies are like that. It's because 2D is no longer cutting edge and the top innovators don't focus on it anymore, it's just people who are nostalgic for 2D. But the game is fun enough still.

>>382581449
>>382581476
But La-mulana is just as good as Super Metroid and SotN despite being indie.

Do you know why?

Because it has creative gameplay, a creative world, creative level design, creative lore, creative boss design, and is a fairly unique adventure. There are very little games that you can say are just like it, and what little of it is derivative is done tremendously well or done in a new way.

>>382581696
La mulana is cheap game design compared to something like super metroid and Sotn. They were made by better teams.

>>382581821
I disagree. I think the amount of time, effort, and polish that went into La-mulana (the remake) is on the same level as Super and SotN. They just have different art styles and gameplay styles, which is what seperates all of them.

>>382582063
La Mulana is near Pitfall levels of unrefined. It's a shitty game.

>>382582182
Oh, so you haven't played it (or you have played it and you could get far because you suck at videogames). Got it.

>>382582358
I dont play bad games.

>>382581097
>This games biggest flaw is that it's just so fucking uncreative.
Yeah that's true.

But it's not boring. It's still very good. I mean, compare it to something like ESA -- that is ALSO a very uncreative game, and it's also very good.
>but is it as good as Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night, La-mulana, Aria of Sorrow, etc? No.
Anon, I really hope you never got the impression that anyone here thought it was better than these games.
>>382581476
Rain World.
>>382581821
No. It's better than SotN and as good as Super Metroid, although they both do very different things.

File: lamulana trigger map.png (2MB, 2401x4233px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2401x4233px

>>382582461
Then how would you know it's a bad game if you haven't played it? You could look at an analysis of the game, but any and all analysis of La-mulana point to it being an extremely polished game.

>>382581696
La Mulana is from 2005.

I agree OP, but I don't think there's any metroidvania that does everything as competently as Hollow Knight. It's got a level of content and polish that you don't see in the genre, and it's all well done even if it is derivative. It's one of the better entries in the genre imo, it just doesn't have anything that elevates it to real greatness.

>>382582628
Spoiler that shit you mong.

>>382582656
Actually, there's one thing HK does better than any other metroidvania I know of: worldbuilding. It's a modern idea, I think (or at least it's only become popular in recent times), and it lets Hallownest feel like one cohesive place you're exploring.

>Order a steak at a restaurant
>Eat it
>"Steak was good but I ate steak before, 3/10 won't pay"

You can only play games where the character kills stuff so many times before seeing the patterns of the genre, it's not a factor in the game's quality.

>>382582859
I personally prefer the world-building in La-mulana. I like the entire lore behind humanity and where all our mythology and shit came from. Plus, it did all of this primarily through environmental story telling, solving puzzles/gameplay, and inspecting unique objects

>>382582859
>better worldbuilding than Metroid

>>382582859
There's some merit to that, but I think they went a bit too far with the cryptic aspect. It feels like the storytelling is inspired by Souls games, but rather than just keeping the story out of the way and weaving it into the background (which they did do) it seems like they felt the need to make it vague and needlessly difficult to absorb, which isn't what makes that kind of storytelling good.

File: 1494978021620.jpg (25KB, 461x400px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 461x400px

>>382583058
>FOOD
>ANALOGY

>>382583087
They're both good, but having tablets all over the place to give you exposition is kind of cheating.

>>382583198
>Stop making analogies using the one thing everyone on the planet has probably done at least once

I never understood this meme.

I get what you're saying but I don't think that brings it down. My biggest gripe is how ripped off the first ending is from dark souls. You have this nice, unique world being built up and then boom another linking the fire type deal.

>>382583087
>I personally prefer the world-building in La-mulana
Don't get me wrong, the lore's awesome -- I prefer it to HK -- but it's a worse world. Like HK feels like a real place where everything interconnects, if that makes sense.
>>382583093
Nigga this better be bait.
>>382583147
The implementation of their worldbuilding leaves a hell of a lot to be desired, yes. Vague soulslike shenanigans has merits (it makes it more interactive as the player has to interpret it for themselves, it boosts the community by giving them something to work on/argue about), but I think they mishandled it. It doesn't help that you get the nagging feeling that parts of the lore are gonna be revealed in DLC...
>>382583058
I usually don't eat steak any more for that exact reason.

>>382583147
HK plot is way more coherent than any souls game, even if you don't go digging for lore you still get a good idea of what happened, what you're doing, and why by the end of the game.

File: 1492048517796.jpg (7KB, 167x144px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 167x144px

>Gameplay: Super Metroid > La-mulana > Hollow Knight > Symphony of the Night
>Graphics: Hollow Knight > Symphony of the Night > Super Metroid > La-mulana
>Music: La-mulana > Symphony of the Night > Super Metroid > Hollow Knight
>Story: Hollow Knight > Symphony of the Night > La-mulana = Super Metroid
>World/Lore: Super Metroid > La-mulana > Hollow Knight > Symphony of the Night
>Boss Fights: La-mulana > Super Metroid > Hollow Knight > Symphony of the Night

>>382583562
>Gameplay: Super Metroid
Literally any melee combat is better than what Metroid does. Unless you're talking about advanced movement tech and shit, but most people don't care about that.

>>382583562
You can't separate these things you tvtropes-loving autismal fuck.

>>382581097
I recently had a metroidvania autism week and played al the 2d metroids, am2r and some castlevanias, and this and this one stuck with me the most to be honest. It didn't feel uncreative to me at all, maybe the overall gameplay concept borrowed too much from other games but nothing felt stolen or contrived.

The passive storytelling was pretty charming, meeting bug guys down in Hallownest that later come up to the surface built the universe nicely, finding new ways to connect zones was cool. To me the atmosphere and combat both stood out to the extent that this is up there with the rest of those games

The world felt very original to me and when I play a metroidvania I'm not looking for some crazy new gimmicky experience. I just want a new world to explore with fun combat and movement.

The game was a great time for me.

>>382584124
How would you compare this to Super Metroid's more understated/passive atmosphere-building?

>>382584124
I think it does benefit from being more modern, mostly in its controls and visuals/environmental effects. Other than that I don't think it stands out compared to the older entries.

On an unrelated note, this is what worries me about Bloodstained, it' looks like it controls like SotN.

>>382584257
Ironically I think I can only say "I want new games to push metroidvanias in new ways" AFTER playing HK. Beforehand I was starving for a good metroidvania (any good metroidvania). But now I've played HK, and now I want something new (just in time for Samus Returns...).

>>382581097
It's absolute metroidvania / action platformer by numbers and only worth playing for the atmosphere and art design. It felt like the developers ran out of ideas half way through and just decided to make every area "difficult" by putting in loads of enemies / bosses that fly around the screen spastically bumping into you. The best boss in the game is Soul Tyrant because it's one of the few that involves more player strategy than just "get the fuck out the way".

There are many other games in the genre that technically have more flaws but at least have their own identity.

I'm about to start playing this.

Is the plot on this game "deep" or "really tries to make you think"? Because I hate that shit

>>382585016
Nah.

File: 1498130045985.png (139KB, 511x601px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 511x601px

Super Metroid and Metroid Prime are two of my favorite games and I like Hollow Knight just as much if not better.

Eat shit OP you contrarian hipster faggot.

>>382585016
its Dark Souls esque where the plot is hidden away and not made explicitly clear but there's no "deeper" messages to it the games tries to shove down your throat.

>>382585016
It tries to ape the Dark Souls super-stilted way of speaking so it can sound pretentious at times. But no, it's not pulling a Life is Strange or anything.

>>382583562
La Mulana>Super Metroid>Symphony of the Night=Hollow Knight

>>382585309
You have shit taste though.

t. Hollow Knight fanboy

>>382585185
>>382585457
>>382585514

Good, looks like I will have fun then

>>382585559
La-Mulana = Supes > Kirby and the Amazing Mirror > SotN = Hollow Knight = Environmental Station Alpha

>>382585016
Nah, it's all pretty straightforward but it's easy to miss some lore tidbits if you're not paying attention. I think it's one of the better forms of storytelling though, it gives you enough of a reason to go do your job and lets you figure the rest out on your own.

>>382585571
You have shit taste for liking La Mulana

game is trash

>>382585514
This, the game hides the fact that a big dumb moth monster is behind it all but it all just amounts to a big dumb moth monster is behind it all.

>>382581097
>it's just so fucking uncreative.
What if I think it's creative?

>>382585016
Yes you can tell it's deep because they put mandalas everywhere

>>382585784
Then your thoughts are incompatible with the facts of reality

>>382585784

WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST

>>382585754
Shove a whip up your arse.
>>382585763
Nigga that's the opposite of what I'm saying. The point is the story's about sacrifice and the point of living and blind fun and other genuinely deep shit, but it doesn't try and dress non-deep shit up as the most mindblowing thing ever (like Bioshock Infinite does). In other words the big dumb moth monster has a good purpose in the story -- it's not just there because "moths are drawn to light BUT LIGHT KILLS THEM am I deep yet???".
>>382585784
Then you are uncreative.

It's got its moments, but in the grand scheme of things it's not like La-Mulana or Rain World.

File: 1358727288824.png (29KB, 555x518px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 555x518px

>>382581097
>derivative
>derivative
>derivative

Oh sorry, I did not know I was on /jp/. Primaries only.

>>382585784
Then join the conversation and tell us why.

>>382581097
Dunno, i heard that Blasphemous and Hollow Knight are rip-offs of dark souls.
I even checked their trailer, they look nothing like a rip-off and look good to buy desu...

>>382586320
Hollow Knight has a body retrieval system like Dark Souls but it's no ripoff.

Guys I finished Steel Soul 100% today, do I try to do an SS speedrun now or SS low%?

>>382586463

A good speedrun will be low% anyway so why scruple?

>>382581097
This games looks like a flash game made in 2004 from Newgrounds

>>382586463
gz you impressive autist

SS 100% then SS lowest possible%

>>382586463
>>382586609
(Both speedruns obvs)
>>382586602
Look up "Hungry Knight".

>>382586463
Posted this in the other thread but I'm posting here too so people see.

Stop playing on easy mode.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/hollow-knight-glass-soul/downloads

File: vanilla-bean-ice-cream-12608-1.jpg (758KB, 3000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 3000x2000px

>>382581097
Completed it today (60%) and it was starting to become a chore so I will not go for the rest.

All that traveling is so boring, I know they are bringing out the dream portal in a patch to help rectify that but in my case too little too late.

It sticks to the formula but brings nothing new to the table except an artstyle that gets kind of lazy in the later zones compared to early on.

>>382587108
I actually think the art gets better in the later zones, Forgotten Crossroads and Greenpath seem so dull in comparison to Queen's Gardens and Ancient Basin.

>>382587108
>Completed it today (60%)
You didn't complete shit.

My first completion was 98%, suck it.

>>382588057
He beat the hollow knight, which counts as finishing the game, big boy.

>>382588472
Oh yeah, good point -- he probably didn't even fight the secret end-boss.

>>382587590
Ancient Basin, Queen's Garden, White Palace and the City of Tears were god tier design wise.

>>382588627
CoT is mid-game though

Also Howling Cliffs deserves more love.

>>382588620
It's really not that much of a secret.

Why does /v/ hate Hollow Knight? It was vidya kino and an actually good kickstarter game. Fuck off already, of course it's not Metroid or Castlevania. I would know because I don't touch those damn games (Besides SotN)

>>382588735
Fuck you nigga I remember getting spoiled by these threads. This is all your fault.

>>382588627
White Palace is bar none my favorite part of the game. Those Super meat boy-esque platforming sections were so damn good.

>>382588620
Probably not, but as you mentioned it is the secret boss, not the regular one. I haven't yet either because I still have to finish the stupid flower quest but I didn't really have time for that, but I will eventually.

>>382589026
Flower quest is super easy. I did it in maybe twenty minutes, and that was because I kept getting cocky at the end.

>>382588857
Opinion soured when people were spamming threads at the beginning of the Steam Sale.

>>382588857
/v/ doesn't hate Hollow Knight, its literally one fucking autist making the same falseflagging shill threads and hate threads towards it, and a few people followed him. I've been in good Hollow Knight threads several times.

>>382588874
Man, literally the entire game is hammering in the fact that there's somebody pulling the strings behind the infection and Hollow Knight is just holding him back. The only way to not learn about the truth is to ignore literally half the map and just go straight to the Dreamers (which you only find out about from the big bad in the first place)

>>382589451
Anti-shill false flaggers are not """people""".
>>382589502
Hornet is NOT the Big Bad.

>>382589336
To be fair, I tried like twice but I was too tired/didn't feel like doing the chore to keep trying that day.

File: 1349875897346.png (310KB, 500x509px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 500x509px

>>382581097
>Muh creativity
I'd really hate to be you. Are you just incapable of enjoying faithful sequels to games?

>>382581097
The games biggest flaw is the Dreamers not being actual boss fights.

>>382590301
That really was a let down. It's especially disappointing that they advertised like 30 boss fights or something and there's only about 5 that are actually really good.

>>382590585
I got stuck on Brooding Mawleck for an embarrassingly long time.

>>382590301
This, actually.

It was so disappointing to have all that cool set up and dialogue from dream nailing them only to just kill them in one hit and have them not attack you.

I still love the game despite that but there was some lost potential there.

>>382590301
To add on to this, I think what they did with the one on the Queen's Garden was pretty good. The not-Metroid fight was really fucking cool.
The other two I have a problem with.

File: Hallownest.png (3MB, 1361x961px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1361x961px

>>382591579
That's in Fog Canyon, not Queen's Garden.

>>382591918
oh yea

>>382591579
>The not-Metroid fight was really fucking cool
Really? I hated it. Super easy, super uninteractive, super boring.

Crystal Peak is the wyrm's head or something right?

>>382590301
I don't mind since they have guardian bosses protecting them, but Hera the Beast not having a boss protecting it pissed me off.

>>382590585
>False Knight
>Mantis Lords
>Soul Master
>Broken Vessel
>Hollow Knight/Radiance

Yeah that's about right. I don't think any of the other bosses were bad though, except maybe Nosk and the Collector since they're so damn simple.

File: Metroidvania Tier List.jpg (1MB, 1148x4532px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1148x4532px

Friendly reminder that Hollow Knight is trash.

>>382593945
>Terraria is a Metroidvania
Oh, the autist is back again.

>>382593945
Your image literally says that it's good.

>>382593945
This list is a goddam mess bit I did really like Aquaria

When Ori was released, I don't think anyone said, "well, it's a good game and all, but I've played Metroidvanias before." I have no idea why people are suddenly saying that for HK.

>>382593945
>a game where over half of all players become permanently stuck is the best of its genre

let's stop pretending. there are no oldfags here to get /v/ cred from except the ones like me that never bought into bullshit like la mulana to begin with

>>382594272
>get stuck in

Lol, get good my friend.

>>382593945
As much as I love La-Mulana, it can't be the peak of Metroidvania because it has shit combat.

>>382590301
It's pretty clear they ran out of money.

>>382594617
But it has amazing bosses and sub bosses.

>>382594049
That's the best part.

>>382581097
I feel like I've been cheated out of 3 boss fights.

>>382594191
Because it wasn't a metroidvania.

>>382581097
What's up with the anti-shill threads for this game, been seeing it for a few days now since the summer sale started.

That said though, I started playing this game last week after I bought it from the summer sale and I already beat the game and I loved it. Can't wait for the 2nd playable character update.

File: hol.jpg (686KB, 3000x1987px) Image search: [Google]

686KB, 3000x1987px

>>382594039
Name five (5) reasons why Terraria isn't a metroidvania.
I'll wait.
It's literally a metroidvania in the guise of a sandbox game. This isn't up for debate tbqhwy, but I'll still let you have a crack at it.

>>382594049
>Your image literally says that it's good.
But my eyes say that it's bad. So does this picture I just took.
Do you think it's artsy enough for /p/ to welcome me with open arms?

>>382594108
It's pretty much a flawless list in all honesty.

>>382594272
>there are no oldfags here to get /v/ cred from
Fuck out of here lad, I've been here for 12 years.

>>382594617
Nah its combat does what it needs to do.

>>382594962
>update

That's gonna be paid DLC, friend.

>>382594962
This seems like one of the legit anti-shill threads, but likely one from a guy who was duped by the false-flagging "shill" threads (hence why he thinks he needs to say the game is worse than Super Metroid).

Everything OP says is completely reasonable, unlike the "OMG this is the WORST GAME I have ever played" ones.

>>382590301
They ran out of money.
It was a kickstarter that barely made the goal.

>>382595198
Strange how most good kickstarters barely made their goals...

>>382594962
Some autistic retard is posting this every day and samefagging the thread to inflate his ego and get people on his bandwagon.

I also got Hollow Knight in the summer sale and I am liking it, it is not a bad game by far.

>>382581696
>Retarded puzzles that are basically do random shit until it works or read it online
>indiana jones wannabe with mythology cues is a creative world lul

>>382581449
>I only like games backed by large corporations

>>382597202
I only like games that aren't made by large corporations except Nintendo.