>Team Fortress 2 goes to shit >It still manages to be the

I hate how shit Pyro is, but goddammit if he isn't fun to play.

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>>382500185
>What went right?
Basically nothing, it's been straight Soldier pandering for the past five years or so. It's not that anything went right with TF2 so much as every possible competitor is somehow even more trash tier.

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inb4OverwatchShillsShitUpTheThread

Do you have your four class slots sorted for different situations?

>Backburner, Panic Attack and Power jack for flanking pyro
>Stock Flamethrower, flare gun and Homewrecker for Pybro
>Degreaser, Reserve Shooter and Power jack for the good old times
>Flog, Detonator and Neon Annihilator for the fun of it.

>>382500185
nothing. Overwatch is everything that TF2 should have been.

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>Team Fortress 2
>competitive

>>382500971
What, pandering to casuals and children?

>>382501124

don't act like TF2 didn't pander to casuals, faggit.

>random damage and spread
>random crits
>no grenades
>everything is much slower

>>382501816
although it did pander to casuals spread used to be fixed, grenades are not needed for competitive. TF2 is a lot faster than overwatch butd, learn to rocket jump.

>>382500890
>no axetinguisher builds anymore
I'll never reinstall it, I miss what it once was so much

>>382501816
>no grenades
They took them out explicitly so scrubs couldn't spam them for cheap kills
>everything is much slower
Fuck mate, have you even played Overwatch?

The random spread and crits I'll concede but 'comp players' don't play with that shit.

>>382501816
It was the mario kart of shooters. Skill mattered only enough to try your best, beyond that it was just goofy bullshit. And that's ok, as long as you weren't one of the mouth breathers in this thread who ever took it seriously.

>>382500185
It has potential to be a major esport but the community is full of friendly faggots and valve isint going to start supporting it anytime soon. look forward for i61, its either now or never, valve needs to make a move.

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>>382502864
You're a loser for thinking that and I feel superior to you because of it

>team fortress t2wo is one million years old

>still magnages to be filled with furries, losers, juanmanuellopez2004, and elitists

whomst'v'd'eve wehnt wrong!

>>382500427
I'll be honest, the fact that the Soldier exists as a "Okay, I've had enough of being a useless piece of shit and want to win this fucking match" is relieving.

>>382503645
ruben?

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>>382500185
>>It still manages to be the best competitive and comfiest shooter on the market

>unbalanced weapons (lots of them)
>numerous bugs
>community infested with little kids and bronies
>rarely gets updates
>50% of people you play with are F2P and suck ass at the game
>random crits
>weapons so bad they're unusable

You call that "competitive" and "comfy"?
Just play Overwatch already. I logged about 1600 hours in TF2 and was blown away by the open beta of Overwatch. I haven't played TF2 since. R.I.P. TF2, 2007-2013

>>382502303
TF2 is not faster than Overwatch

>>382500185
the only reason TF2 sucks is the rampant cosmetic care

if it were monitored and kept a little better no one would complain

there were 14 people playing on the Detroit servers today.

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>>382504017
> "play Soldier to win" is OK now

Remember when TF2 was flaunted as one of the most well-balanced shooters on the market?
I remember those days vividly.

>>382504229
>TF2 is not faster than Overwatch
???
>Overwatch
>sit in choke and poke back and forth at each other until one dickhead fucks up and overextends and everybody goes all out with their ults
Plays more like MOBA teamfights than an FPS.
>TF2
>plenty of chances to take the intiative and push out of choke due to uber being easy to charge
>uber can also be countered by a proactive engineer or pyro

>>382505158
>OK now.

M8, he's always been that way. Even when I was playing this fucking game on a PS3 back in 2008.

>>382505272
>I suck at Overwatch, the post

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>>382501065
Is fun, yes.
>>382503932
>being an elitist
>bad
Elitism is to thank for civilization.

>>382505403
>>I suck at Overwatch, the post
I have no counterargument, so I'll just call him shit, the post.
It is literally not worth it to break positioning in Overwatch unless a pick has already been made because if you fuck up in any way, your team instantly loses due to a 6v5.

>>382505403
Why do you faggots do this every time Overwatch is criticized? It's pathetic

>>382504229
>TF2 is not faster than Overwatch
Are you joking or baiting?

3/24 characters in Overwatch move slower than TF2's second slowest class.

>>382505649
youj're'r autisitc i th ink

>>382500427
>soldier
>not scout

call me when you have at LEAST +1k hours newb

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Ignore the OWfags, post your
>favourite map
>favourite class
>candidate for "most balanced weapon"
>candidate for "most fun weapon"

>>382505654
There are plenty of characters designed to do literally exactly what you're describing. I can think of five specialized flankers and many more who can fill the role.

Also respawn timers are fast, death isn't nearly as big a setback as you're making it out to be.

>>382505724
It's fine to criticize OW, it's a flawed game, but not for what he's describing. If you find yourself in a stalemate you're playing badly. Flankers are overpowered in the game right now, it's so fucking easy to break through chokepoints if you're at all decent.

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>>382506130
I'll start
>pic
>Medic
>Winger
>Loch-N-Load

>>382506130
2Fort
Scout
FaN
Babyface Blaster.

>>382506130
turbine
sniper
i don't fucking know
probably market gardener or some shit
idk i played fucking years ago

>>382506160
>flanking in Overwatch
>ever
While Reaper/Roadhog is off trying to catch their healer out of position, they all collapse on you and win the fight because you're down a dickhead because Overwatch has little to no advanced movement techniques.
Alternatively, they all collapse on your flanker because they either hear them zipping around with their teleports, screaming into the abyss when they shadow step onto a ledge, or the pounding footsteps and jingling that any competent player can hear from a mile away when Roadhog's coming.
Reread my post nigger, I said that it's "not worth it" to break the 6 man huddle. It's possible, but highly unlikely, unreliable, and again it's just not worth it.

>>382506392
FaN is a little bit underpowered if anything.
Its only dps upside over stock is close-range damage, but its entire shtick is knocking people out of close range.

Valve should buff Fan a tiny bit, and buff Baby Face's Blaster to the way it was on release.

I remember back in the beta 10 years ago, I ran TF2 at max settings on my shitty PC that was made in 2004.

But then the cosmetic bloat fucked everything and even with a newer, better PC I struggled to get TF2 to run with anything resembling consistency up till I upgraded again recently.

I know it'd be fucking sacrilegious and probably cause people to riot on Steam forums for a few days, but I really want a TF3, and I want it to just jettison pretty much everything that doesn't gel with "late 60s, early 70s Norman Rockwell/spy fiction aesthetic," and hopefully to optimize that bitch.

It's great that so much community input has actually manifested as official material, but I expected them to take a scalpel instead of just ejaculating it into crates and hoping for the best.

>>382508054
i don't think modern valve even wants to develop new games

and that's the thing- if they made TF3 they'd run it in some new fucking style- WHICH IT HONESTLY NEEDS, but to be really honest i just want the feel of 2007-2010 servers back again. community focused and little insulated bubbles of fun

>>382501816
>everything is much slower
what

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>>382509209
He's relating it to Quake Team Fortress (TF1) and Half-Life Team Fortress (TFC) I believe

here is an example of HLTF (TF Classic) https://youtu.be/Mm1ajobCgxA?t=14

However, while it is true that TF2 is a casualization of those games to make it more enjoyable for a wider market, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, since the skill floor for those games was very high, and TF2's skill floor and skill ceiling is still way higher than almost all other games in the market

>>382509486
I would actually argue that one of TF2's strengths was how low its skill floor was to be functionally effective at Day 1.

Yes, the difference in abilities of your pro vs your fresh blood is going to be enormous, but in your usual 12 vs 12 matchup, somebody could be very comfortable with the more straightforward, fundamental classes like Soldier, Heavy, or Medic if they stayed with their team.

god can someone just fucking take me back to 2008 team fortress two i'm FUCKING BEGGING YOU

>>382506130
Badwater
Medic
Stock weapons
Direct hit or Crusader's Crossbow

>>382506130
>Turbine
>Heavy
>I dunno, stock I guess
>Baby Face's Blaster (I have no idea if it's still fun but back when I played it was fun to go super sanic fast).

>>382510323
>tfw running the whole reatard set (tomislav + light shotty + brass knucks) and fucking lads up

PLEASE god take me back

>It still manages to be the best competitive and comfiest shooter on the market
It's not though.

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>>382509776
Yeah man, honestly a low skill floor isn't really a bad thing for a multiplayer game anyway. "Easy to learn, hard to master" is a key axiom of good game design.

It's when your game loses its skill ceiling, though, that you should complain. And TF2 did lose a fair bit of skill ceiling in comparison to TFC/QWTF, he's right there. But in the years since release, TF2 has raised its skill ceiling thanks to Ambassador, Gunboats, Crossbow, etc., and even though its skill ceiling was lower than TFC, TF2 is still one of the most skillful games in the industry in its own right.

>>382505158
it was flaunted as that, but honestly the game has been play soldier to win for a long fucking time. but the game changes so much with different player counts that it seems more balanced, but like at low player counts scout basically solo wins games, high player count demos completely wreck, sniper are better, etc. soldier is just generalist enough to stand out in basically any configuration of the game

>>382506130
>Foundry
>Soldier
>Shortstop
>Crusader's Crossbow

>>382506230
>Loch-N-Load
>Most fun
Once it lost the ability to one-shot scouts it stopped being fun for me. That was the ONLY reason why I used it at all.

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why did they reduce the map pool for the CTF playlist? they removed the only good map in the game

>>382510664
I don't think losing the skill ceiling is necessarily a negative point. TF2 is much more functionally and mechanically diverse than Spastic Medic Adventures.

please anyone just want to take me into like 10 years into the past where the internet wasn't such a fucking disaster and nice people were everywhere

>>382505945
apart from pyro knockback soldier has no weakness

>>382510507
What is then?
TF2 has the best combination of high skill ceiling, population to find games, replayability though content, and good design.
>>382511216
I find LnL actually more fun since the rework. Couldn't say why.

>>382506130
cp_process
scout
kritzkrieg, I think its the perfect example of a sidegrade from stock.
stock RL, boring answer but I fucking adore rocket launchers

>>382500185
>6v6 is the best way to play this game
>we tried various modification and this is how it plays best
>it has nothing to do with the fact, that orgs don't want to play for more than six players per team, we swear
Competitive will be the final nail on TF2 (like everything else involving money). Now that Valve started to ignore reddit and exclusively listen to these fags, their sensebilities have priority. Just a matter of time before 12v12 gets dropped and replaced with 6v6 and, after the expected "popular demand", Highlander.

good got can all of you shut the fuck up and atke me back to 2008 team fortress two PLEASE

>>382505649
>look at this play that only works in an environment where we autistically dictate how many players are allowed to play there.

>>382512041
Thats how they call pros in videogames now?

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>>382511284
>TF2 is much more functionally and mechanically diverse than Spastic Medic Adventures.
That's true. TF2 added a hell of a lot more balance, nuance, and strategy to the Team Fortress formula.

There was basically no reason for Scout, Spy and Pyro to exist in TFC when Medic, Sniper and Soldier covered their roles and did them flat out better. There was too much role overlap.
>>382511420
Soldier does have weaknesses, though.
He's less mobile over a distance than Scout unless he wears Gunboats, and if he does, he loses to Scout in a fight.
He's the second slowest class in the game when not rocket jumping (which chews HP).
His Rocket Launcher is actually inferior to many weapons in DPS, and being projectile-based makes it dodgeable/reflectable by quicker classes.

Soldier doesn't have no weaknesses. He has few, sure, and his melees/reserve shitter are OP, but the stock class is reasonably balanced alongside Scout, Demo, and Sniper.
The real problem is that since he has no dedicated class soft counter, there's never any risk to choosing him over classes who might be soft countered.

>>382511816

5s is the closest thing to the original vision for tf2. The games wasn't designed for 12v12 or even 10v10 which is why balance starts to break once you get up there in numbers

I wish I had experienced TF2 around prior to 2012, when i started

>>382513634
i also wish you had

They took nine years to perfect the mechanics and gameplay. A few stupid hats can never ruin that.

>>382513561
If this was the case, then the map designs don't make any sense, since they would be too damn huge for 5e.

Keep telling that yourself, though. There were servers who extended the game to 16v16. The trend is clearly going to the other side, but you fags ruined it. Since every company and their mother wants in into the new shiny thing, which is competitive, everyone wants to create games which restrict it's players to a 5v5 and 6v6, because orgs simply don't want to pay for more than 6 players.
But this is not what pisses me off. What pisses me off is your dishonesty towards this topic. Instead of admitting this is a pragmatic decision you try it to sell as a "what works best and what everyone should do" thing.

>>382500890
I have two situational builds and then a Halloween/full moon version of each.

>>382502432
I still have the Axtinguisher on Pyro. It's viable, just airblast an them into a corner and the extra switch time is basically irrelevant.

What is your ideal team comp given the original 12 man team size?

1 Scout
2 Soldiers
1 Pyro

1 Demo
1 Heavy
2 Engineers

1 Sniper
2 Medics
1 Spy

>b4nny getting absolutely fucking destroyed at Quake Champions and showing he has no aim
pottery

>>382514001

Literally go read/watch the developer's commentary. The game was designed around 8v8 with a generalists/specialists dynamic. 6s is closer to that than the spamfest that is 12v12 or the abomination that is highlander. Yeah there were compromises and concessions to get to 6v6 but that is what works best from a balance -> game flow perspective

>>382505869
I can tell by the way you type that you're autistic

>>382514482
i can tell by the way you type that you're fucking gay

>>382514291
1 Scout
2 Soldiers
1 Pyro

1 Demos
2 Heavies
1 Engineer (General Healing)

1 Sniper
2 Medic (Being Hotpockets for Heavies)
1 Spy

>>382514291
12 FUCKING SNIPERS

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>>382500185
>best competitive and comfiest shooter
Outdone in both 2 years ago by nipples with no previous shooter experience.

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>that guy who goes Scout on defense

>>382514928
Can't hurt in small numbers.
What Sentries are you going to run into?

>>382506130
Dustbowl
Spy
Stock Shotgun
Cleaver

>>382514291
2 scouts
2 soldiers
4 demos
4 medics

>>382514291
What you need is a front. Any class that can deal a huge amount of damage AND take some (indicated by higher HP) should do the trick.
Candidates are Heavy, Soldier, Demoman and Pyro (who are coincidentally also called Medic buddies).
You also need healing devices to uphold that front. Medics and Dispensers are well suited for it.
Then you need assassins to circumvent that front. Spy and Sniper are the obvious choices, but Scout and Pyro also have the potential to do so. (Additional candidates would be Demoknight and Gunslinger Engineer [since he is basically a slow Scout, who can attack you from two sides]). You definitely want the assassins to be as low as possible, because in TF2 conservation of ninjutsu is real.

>>382515009
>What Sentries are you going to run into?

That offensive engineer with wrangler and mini sentry

>>382500185
>inspired artstyle
>clever writing
>tight gameplay

It was literally a 10/10 game upon release.

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>>382500312
Pyro update WHEN?

>>382506130
>5CP Well
>Demoman
>Not really sure
>Loose Cannon

>>382500185
>Competitive TF2

lol

>>382506130
>Steel
>Pyro
>Stock shotgun
>Scorch Shot or Jarate/Bushwaka

>>382515475
They are rare, and any Scout worth his salt can deal with minis.

>>382515550
S O O N
O
O
N

>>382515550
If it's not out before July's end we march in and burn down Valve HQ, agreed?

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>>382506130
landfall
demo
pain train
loose cannon by a country mile

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>>382515535
>the game will never have truly balanced weapons that provide the promise of creative, fun gameplay alternatives to an already diverse cast of characters
I love the array of weapons, but anyone arguing that every one of them is well balanced (or even fun, Sydney Sleeper) is very ill-informed.

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>>382505945
>1k hours

LMAO soldierfag thinks that's a lot

Boy I've got 4 times your number and if you think Scout is at all pandered to it goes to show why you play Soldier.

>>382515941
BOO DISHHH
>>382515991
Oh for sure. Roughly 10% of TF2's unlockable weapon array is genuinely overpowered compared to stock, and 75% of them are underpowered compared to stock.

And quite a few could do with reworks to make them more enjoyable, skill-indexed and unique.

However on the whole Valve has done right with the weapons array on offer IMO.

>>382514457
8v8, that's still 6 players more than the "initial" 5v5 you suggested.
Yet you still insist 6v6 is the result of balance and game flow instead of limitation forced upon by orgs.
The reason why your kind hates 12v12, is because it forces you to be dynamic with class management.
Competitive on the other hand forces you to play one class alone and excel with it, i.e. you have the Medic who only plays Medic and so on.
The only reason why class limit exists in comp is because your standard lineup is too weak to Scout rushes for example.

>>382516096
i have well more than 1k hours boyo, 1k is just the bare minimum required to have a somewhat legitimate opinion on the game

also
dumb frogposter

Why is Vac such shit?

>>382516301
The banning system?
Because Valve refuses to implement more invasive measures on players' computers which would make it work fully, but they also refuse to hire enough people who could manually police reports and ban hackers.

So instead they're going to get a robot to do it. http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-wants-to-take-a-machine-learning-approach-to-counter-strike-anti-cheat/

Why does everybody hate highlander mode?

It feels like how the game is meant to be played

>>382516296
Justify your stance that Scout is pandered to in light of the fact that every Scout sidegrade has been gutted or is planned to be gutted while Soldier keeps getting buffed. While you're at it, you may as well justify nerfing Spy, Pyro, Engineer and Demoknight without touching Soldier.

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>>382516230
i'd like to motion that the loose cannon be nominated for one of the most fun/ skill-based vidya weapons of all time

>>382506160
>respawn timers are shorter
means fuck all on defense unless you have a teleporter up, which is a limited use item that requires you to build up an ult meter. Meanwhile all engy needs to do is bring up his pda and whack it till it works. No limited uses, can even upgrade it so it works faster. No cooldown bullshit, just metal as a resource. You basically instaspawn in blu team. Compare that to overwatch where if you get picked off on volskaya defense you might as well kiss first point good bye since no one likes sym mains because muh meta fags and it takes years to get there due to nearly every hero walking with concrete shoes

>>382516567
I've always done far more damage with it just firing randomly into crowds than actually aiming.

>>382516479
it's extremely impractical to find a game

You need to have one of every single class main just to play

Heavy mains are rare enough as it is, and you have to find two of them, at the same skill level as you, in the same country as you, and that's just the heavies, don't get me started on the medic mains

additionally, Heavy, and Engineer in their current state (low-skill, low-counterplay hitscan damage sponges), they make the game very unenjoyable to play when permanently present on both sides

>>382513365
>The real problem is that since he has no dedicated class soft counter, there's never any risk to choosing him over classes who might be soft countered.

exactly. they need to designate a class to be anti-soldier. maybe give pyro natural rocket resistance

>>382516996
If we did that, we'd also have to nominate a class for Soldier to soft-counter, because otherwise Soldier would be soft-countered by 1 class and soft-countering nobody.

I'd prefer that we instead buffed every class to be slightly 0.000001% stronger than Soldier in a one-on-one fight

>>382516284

The "5s" was a typo for 6s

12v12 isn't dynamic in the slightest. When people know what they're doing every comp would be 3-4 Soldiers, 4-5 demos, 2-3 medics, and a sniper or 2. All encompassing spam is superior to any other strategy you could put together and destroys the need for off-classing unlike 6s. Luckily most people just dick around in pubs so you'll never see that coordinated ball of curbstomp.

Also, every class in sixes has a 2 limit. Stacking classes in a great amount is what causes problems in tf2 because the game wasn't built with it in mind. Demo is limited to 1 for example because sticky traps would stalemate the game even harder outside of ubers. It also effectively eliminates demo's weakness because the 2 demos can just cover each other. Scout was the one of the last classes in consideration when limits came up because it's effectiveness isn't as magnified as other classes stacking. If for example they allowed 3 soldiers every single 6s team would drop a scout for it.

Do some research before talking about shit you obviously know nothing about

>>382506130
Gravelpit 2fort Steel
Heavy
KGBs
KGBs

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>>382517220
>Stacking classes in a great amount is what causes problems in tf2 because the game wasn't built with it in mind

what do you mean? class stacking is fair and balanced.

>>382512041
>demo out of fucking nowhere two-shots medic in a couple seconds
>not viable unless players are restricted
Are you fucking retarded?

>>382511264
They're missing shittons of maps, and an entire mode

>>382517610
When will Robot Destruction ever come out of beta? It was actually fun

>>382517664
NEVER
EVER
>not even in the misc slot
>but that garbage PASS time and the shit with the power ups get their own slots

>>382517743
What the fuck were they even thinking with that power up shit? I've never witnessed such poorly balanced no-fun total garbage and I used to play on all-crit Orange maps.

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>>382517220
>Demo is limited to 1 for example because sticky traps would stalemate the game even harder outside of ubers
Not him but this isn't as huge a problem as you'd think.

When Competitive Matchmaking came out with no class limits whatsoever on Demo, and people tried to abuse Demo with sticky spamming, the results were surprisingly not that bad.

Demo was limited to 1 in the very, very early days of competitive 6v6, back when they played it on 2fort and Dustbowl, random crits couldn't be disabled in competitive play, and there were way less means of destroying stickies than there are now (for example, you couldn't destroy them with hitscan).

Today, map design is a lot more open, there are plenty of counters to stickytrap spam, and stickies themselves are more visible and do less damage radius. Demo as a whole is way, way weaker now than when he was originally limited to 1.

Spam thirty stickies on a control point and it only takes one Quickiebomb Launcher or Scorch Shot to delete them all instantly.

Demo stacking is not a huge problem. It only slows down the game a little bit.

I agree with your overall point, but not with the particular Demo example. You'd be better off using Heavy, Medic or Engineer as your example.

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>>382517385
>>382517220
>playing server with 16 v 16 teams on 2fort ctf
>everyone goes engineer and builds sentry's everywhere
>not even 3 ubercharged heavy's can penetrate our beautiful offensive defense
>this lasted for an hour
the most fun i've had on a server ever

>>382506130
pl_cashworks
Engineer
Direct Hit
Loose Cannon

>>382517957
>playing MM garbage
>get into match
>everyone on our team goes engineers
>they can't penetrate our defense
>tears abound, the enemy team is losing their shit and extremely butthurt
>it's been 3+ hours
>me and friend go soldier+medic
>end the match 5 minutes after switching
this is why i love TF2

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>>382517830
They made Mannpower as a homage to Threewave CTF, which was a big Quake mod around the time of the release of the original Quake Team Fortress.

Threewave was the mod that made Capture the Flag a popular concept in video games, going on to inspire the Tribes series among others, and Team Fortress probably wouldn't have existed without it.

TF2's version is sort of shit though as the powerup system doesn't mesh well with the concept of drastically different classes, but basically the mode was added for the devs' nostalgia for the good old days.

>>382517220
Why would they drop a scout for soldier?

>>382517957
Engineer only feels like a trench warfare sim. It's surprisingly fun

What if Capture the Flag just had one flag that you had to hold for a set time, sort of like King of the Hill, but with a moving object?
I've played FortWars mod maps before which do that, and it's infinitely more fun than 2-flag modes.

>>382516567
>>382516230
The only class where I feel like Valve has done a good job with alternate weapons is Demoman.
Demoknight aside, most, if not, all of his alternate explosive weapons feel like balanced, unique sidegrades to stock.
>Loose Cannon is oriented on timing your shots for the ever-satisfying Double Donk
>Loch n' Load is oriented on taking down enemy buildings in the blink of an eye
>Quickiebomb Launcher is oriented on fast offensive pushes against large nests
>Scottish Resistance is oriented on defense and total area denal
>Pain Train is oriented on support and teamwork

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>>382519058
Apart from very mild issues with being stacked on defensive sides (see >>382517869) Demo is one of the most balanced and well-designed classes in TF2.

Easy to learn, hard to master, high counterplay, fun to play, goes fairly even in 1v1s with almost every class (even Pyro), lots of weapon variety, and a clearly defined role. More classes should be like Demo, apart from the whole "being a nigger" thing.

>>382519618
Then they ruined it with Demoknight.

>>382519758
Demoknight doesn't change anything about the stock class, though. It's simply an addition. It might be less skillful than the stock Demo, but it's less powerful as a result, so that's fine.
Demoknight isn't OP and provides welcome variety to Demo's formula. I don't get people who have a vendetta against it.

>>382501065
The comp scene has been alive for years now.

>>382520234
He's probably thinking of the shitty official one. Anyways, it's a shame that Valve doesn't support competitive TF2 like it does with DOTA and CSGO, even though the pieces are all there.

>>382519976
I just don't "get" Demoknight I guess.

Take arguably the most useful weapon in the game and replace it with a fucking shield that lets him charge around faster than Scout, get guaranteed crits, AND resists explosive and fire damage on the off chance that he catches even the slightest splash damage while he's zooming around the map. When there's a Demoknight on the other team it always seems like he's running around completely unchecked and when there's one on my team it always seems like he's not doing anything and would be way more useful with stock.

It's such a bizarre subclass. How come it in no way resembles normal Demoman? For example, Mini Sentry Combat Engie at least resembles Engineer.

I don't know. I just don't like it.

>>382520386
Pyro Update is reportedly going to include some improvements to Competitive Mode.

>>382520476
I fucking hope, but will it ever compare to the already established third party competitive platforms? I hope it does.

>>382519058
>balanced
omg youre a fucking retarded demo hallway stickybomb spamming bitch

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>>382520432
Sure it's bizarre, and probably would have belonged better on Heavy or Pyro, but now that it's on Demo it's not actively bad for the game, and many people seem to enjoy it.

>>382506130
MAP
>cp_dustbowl
i know it's kinda shit, and really choke pointy, but i just love the comfiness.
CLASS
>Demo
great movement capabilities, yes i'm saying sticky jumping is better than rocketjumping. Also direct pills are fun to hit.
MBW
>shotgun
can do chip damage, rewards skill, but doesn't do enough damage to feel op.
MFW
>beggars bazooka
overload jumping is amazing

>>382520432
When it goes full meme mode it's pretty much the closest thing to a tenth class -- a super shit one, mind you, but still one.

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WHO TEEK HERE?

>>382520879
Can't disagree, Dustbowl is tier Z for objective-focused gameplay, but tier S for comfiness.
>yes i'm saying sticky jumping is better than rocketjumping
it's more powerful but less sustainable, and it's more skilled in some ways but less skilled in other ways.

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>>382520957
i was last night until i got kicked for "lewd" at the end :^)

>>382521090
I've never heard of anyone being removed for lewd ever

Only for talking on the mic or muting. Or being HotPink.

>>382506130
So far people seem to like weapons that reward skill the most.

>>382500185
It was shit to begin with. Compared to TFC, TF2 is a cartoony mess for literal autists, and it was this way even before hats were added.

>>382504229
>F2P
in competitive they don't exist
>OP weapons
get banned in competitive
>bad weapons
never used unless you want to try a fun but weak combo/trick
>bugs
I've been playing as of late and I don't remenber a single bug.

>>382521314
>random crits
disabled in competitive

>>382521075
if you git gud at hitting pills, you can equip the sticky jumper and be basically unstoppable.
>air pogo behind the enemy lines
>pill those fuckers in the ass
>jump away without a scratch
>smack them with a ham for the sake of it

>>382506130
>Turbine
>Demoman
>Reserve Shooter (Soldier)
>Scottish Resistance
>>382520598
Balanced in the sense that they are good sidegrades to Demo's stock arsenal.
Key word: sidegrade.

>>382521237
>Compared to TFC, TF2 is a cartoony mess

>implying TFC wasn't a cartoony mess in its own right
Have you actually ever stopped to look at gameplay? Medics jerking around spastically with their legs wiggling through the air like fish as they use concussion grenades to throw flags to each other.
That doesn't mean that the gameplay is somehow inherently bad, though. Same goes for TF2. TF2 has one of the highest skill ceilings of any FPS on the market.
TF2 took the cartoony angle because the Team Fortress series' gameplay is inherently ridiculous.

The only thing shit around here is your taste.

>>382520957
I remember playing with you faggots years ago

>>382500185
>competitive
>tf2
When this shitty meme ends?

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>Overwatch showed promise of being a competent alternative to TF2 at launch
>then they added """""competitive""""" mode which made 1 player per class a thing
>this ass-cancer spread to quick play
>instead of having stupid shit like class rushes and at least 2 mcrees per team there's now some bullshit """""meta""""" where they keeping nerfing the fun characters until everyone is sterile as shit

God fucking dammit. We can't a fucking video game just be fun. Shit like Battlefront 2 and MW2 were laughable imbalanced and all the better for it. TF2 isn't imbalanced to such an extreme but I'm glad it can be left alone long enough for the community to do what they want with it essentially. It feels natural and you don't have to put up with shitty devs ruining your fun.

>>382521492
Have you seen any TF2 comp matches? Any official lans? Shit's intense. The only meme here is the matchmaking system.

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>>382521492
When you learn some English grammar, you smelly foreigner. Then maybe the 100,000 people enjoying TF2's high skill ceiling will stop having fun. Probably not though.

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>>382521171
it was the dots name guy
we were playing castle and shit was p. much ded anyways
i was just cannon-balling people

>>382521557
>Overwatch showed promise of being a competent alternative to TF2 at launch
Not with their complete and utter lack of custom content. Maps like Cyberpunk wouldn't be possible in "no modification allowed because we're butthurt we lost Dota" aka Shitty Nu-Blizzard Games.

>>382521557
blizzard's still trying to push the e-sports meme
"competitive" gaming is the second worst thing to ever happen to video games

>>382521557
TF2 absolutely IS imbalanced to an extreme degree and always has been, you just don't notice it because either 1. you play with trashcan shitters or 2. you are the trashcan shitter. Acquire skill and/or play with people who have done so and watch as the game transforms into something dramatically different.

Also, they routinely ruin fun things when patching TF2, the next round is fucking completely balanced things in the ass, for instance. I'm not sure why you've got rose-tinted glasses for the game but your praise is completely unwarranted.

>>382521789
the first being?
executive disconnection?

>>382521789
there is nothing wrong with competitive gaming, there is everything wrong with e-sports. know the difference.

playing seriously in a team with your friends is great fun. Playing a video game as a job, and having an industry built around it, is what's moronic.

>>382522107
mobas, which in part are responsible for modern e-sports shit

>>382522078
>the next round is fucking completely balanced things in the ass, for instance
Not him but which weapons are you talking about?

>>382522078

I've seen more games ruined by patches than I can hope to count, but TF2 even in its post-CSGO weapon skin existence is still enjoyable in much the same way as it was when it launched. I can still hop onto Dustbowl or Egypt and enjoy the game. Community servers have certainly seen better days of course but I do't believe a single update has thoroughly fucked the game like many other once great games have had done to them.

You're right I probably do suck as far as pro-tier shit goes, but TF2 is a comfy game for me. Always has been. I don't take it too seriously, just enough to play the objective.

>Nostalgiafags are still defending tf2
Just play overwatch already, tf2 is bad and dead

>>382521470
we still play Friday and saturday nights

If the pyro rework just gave it enough speed to be as fast as medic, and an extra 50 health ala original BB, but made airblast not a total momentum killer would it be used any in comp?

>>382522452
>play completely different game because I said so
2/10 made me reply

>>382521583
>>382521621
>competitive tryhard kids on suicide watch
Of course you are. But the truth is that nobody cared about so-called competitive except a bunch of autistic fucks who think every single game has to be competitive in order to be fun. The majority of tf2 players enjoyed the game as it is without dumb rules, banned weapons and all shit like this and you have to deal with it.

>>382522614
its not a completely different game you retard, its the same shit but better in every way, and its not just me saying that, read this thread

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>MFW Scottish Resistance in the ONE Hallway that leads to D and E on Steel.

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/9/9f/Demoman_specialcompleted10.wav?t=20100625221821

>>382506130
>2Fort
>Engineer
I don't know the english name of the weapons, sorry

>>382522687
I enjoy the casual setting as much as the next guy, that's why we kept comp separated you fucknut. it's just fun to play with people actually trying to win, instead of being stuck with friendlies, kids, retards, f2p's, russians, people trying stupid and worthless play-styles, and a clusterfuck of team balance.

>>382522687
>tryhard being an insult
You are just bad at the game, and looking for reasons to make yourself feel better. Games are made to be played, the whole point of the is trying to win, it's an easy concept.

>>382522702
>its the same shit

It's really not. And saying so only shows how little you give a shit about Overwatch -- you're clearly only shitposting.

>>382523015
>you got the wrong loadout, fucker
>you picked the wrong class, fag
>you didn't try hard enough, cocklover
>reported your sorry ass, dipshit
Suuuuuuure.

>>382517743
Fuck I remember going medic and pocketing my friend as a heavy and getting 10 dominations with vampire and some other powerup.

>>382523153
You have to put at least 4K hours into TF2 in order to make your posts relevant

>>382523660
I don't know have i said that? I don't usually insult others when i'm pubstomping, i just like comp becasue people actually present me with a challenge there, you casual dipshits are my breakfast. But i see no reason to throw insults or report (unless someone is cheating), you guys have it hard as it is, surviving my onslaught.

>>382523749
your cock needs to be at least 3 inches to post here.

>>382523879
Nice denial here, my man.

>>382523828
>another Iron division participant tries to show his "skills"

>>382524040
i was just pointing out how stupid you sound

>>382500312
>>382515550
I hope they'll completely overhaul his main playstyle to be something else besides W+M1

TF2 maps but I miss bigger less linear maps that Wolfenstein ET had so much of.

>>382522564
>If the pyro rework just gave it enough speed to be as fast as medic
Wouldn't solve the problem of Pyro being too slow to get in range to attack before it dies. Even if it had 107% speed, Scout still has 133% speed (123% while backpedaling) which is more than enough to outrun the Flamethrower while peppering Pyro with hitscan.

By giving it 107% speed and 225HP, you'd just be making Pyro a better pubstomping class, which is the last thing that needs to happen to it.

What Pyro actually needs is to become more skill-indexed. Make the Flamethrower harder to aim, in exchange for giving it more range. This will make W+M1 less effective and careful aim more effective.

>>382506130
Thunder Mountain
Soldier
Sniper rifle I guess
Beggars

>>382500185
>worse than overwatch, a game that itself is barely playable
This is how in denial valve cucks are.

>>382522162
But anon, ASSFAGs require more skill than your favorite genre.

>>382524540
t. Activision shill

>>382524145
And you sound like someone who played any other game and came to tf2 after that and want here something which wasn't even intended to be. Nobody gave a fuck about comp mode even Valve. Just some retards think that this kind of addition will make game better or more fun which is also wrong.

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>>382500185
>tf2
>best competitive
Man, i play tf2 almost every day, some pl_ and some hale, and i love it.
But competitive tf2 is broken; the meta in 6v6 excludes 5 classes, and highlander is way far behind thee level of other games (tho i find it extremly fun)

>>382524619
>he didn't like my shit game
>he must be shilling for a shit game
I'm actually an EA shill. Go play Titanfall 2, it's actually good and takes a modicum of skill.

>>382524762
>oh shit I was caught!
>better false flag shill for something else

L M A O

>>382524816
>blizzard having to hire shills

L M A O

>>382515787
Any scout worth his scout can deal with all classes cept a pro soldier

>>382505649
How are you detonating them so quickly? was this changed?

>>382524887
>t-they're so good they don't need shills!
>b-but I'm totally not one I swear!

L M A O
M
A
O

>>382525025
DEAD GAME
Get fucked nigger

>equip comp medal
>slam idiots in casual
>spam shittalk binds in chat
>someone always gets mad

Most fun to be had in games desu

>>382524670
do you understand that some people prefer the comp settings? Nobody is touching your precious casual you stuck up faggot, the comp mode is for people that want to be competitive.

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>play quickplay
>Get in server, match already started or is about ti begin anyway
>Notice nobody is Spy, pick it
>Play for 5 minutes doing an acceptable job, nothing extreme
>Check the team
>More two spies in the team, three total
I HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU, HOW CAN A PERSON THINK MORE THAN ONE SPY IN A TEAM CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU
These cunts always force me to change class to be more useful to the situation. And despite having many spies, none of them go to kill snipers or destroy sentries. FUCK YOU.

>tf2 is sooo competetive
>ESEA tf2? wtf is that?

>>382524701
I mean, its busted compared to tf2 at large, but I think its pretty fun when you consider it its own game. TF2 just doesnt scale down to low player counts gracefully, but managing a competitive game with large teams kinda becomes a clusterfuck in coms. 6s, hl and pubs I think just serve different purposes and offer something that isnt really offered anywhere else.

>>382525123
I know, pretty sure the Blizz CEO left over it and they've refused to release numbers.

Good thing buyer's remorse keeps all those Blizzfags from coming back and shitting up TF2!

>>382525465

>join server
>see 1 spy on our team
>I go spy and immediately outclass him
>he switches and thanks me because he hates spy and he was just doing it to sap some sentry or something

Feels good.

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the real core of the problem with pyro is the Flamethrower, there's nothing wrong with the shotgun, fire axe, or its base stats.
Because Flamethrower is so short-ranged, and Pyro has no viable advanced movement techniques, the counterplay to Flamethrower-- rather than dodging like any normal class- is to run backwards, which is not hard at all.

As long as Pyro is countered by pressing S, the class will be a broken mess.

How to fix:
>decrease the size of fire particles by 50% (or replace them with hitscan entirely).
This will make Flamethrower require more aim, thus allowing us to buff it.
>increase the range of the Flamethrower by 50% of its current length.
This will allow Pyro to actually reach enemies and damage them. Currently the Flamethrower's range is ridiculously small.
>Airblasts now knock back Pyro while it is jumping.
This will allow Pyro to make 10 "airblast jumps" to get in range to attack enemies.
>Afterburn DPS increased from 3/sec to 4/sec on everything but Degreaser.
Afterburn, Pyro's defining mechanic, will be less of a joke and more of a legitimate threat. Currently even Huo-Long Heater does more afterburn damage than Flamethrower.
>>382525006
It's not a webm by me, it's a competitive TF2 player. Stickybombs' detonation time was briefly nerfed in 2014, but that nerf was reverted and replaced with an explosion radius nerf that does not affect detonation time. The .webm is from this year.

The skillfloor in overwatch is gargantuan compared to TF2 the fact matches in OW usually end extremely fast and last only as long as both teams can meet each others risks and mistakes is a testament to this.

That and offense in Overwatch right now is horrifically strong right now, but most of the playerbase doesn't know how to properly utilize it due to it being similar to fighting games in being execution and reaction heavy.

Persay the 2/2/2 isn't even required theres lots of teams you can run that force different things to happen that is only reliant on how good your players are

how is tf2 NOT balanced?

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>>382525960

>>382525960
That's pretty much the same difference between HotS and DOTA. It's a matter of how a company handles balance.

>>382525747
Love me some kaidus gameplay, does he still play?

>>382525994
If it was really balanced, Soldiers, Scouts and Medics wouldn't be classes that make you win for sure. In a balanced game, all classes should give the same chances of victory.

>>382525994
I hate to agree with OWfags but it's true that TF2 is not a perfectly balanced game. Medic is a mandatory choice and Pyro and Spy are rarely useful choices.

That's all beside the point though when you consider how badly balanced Overwatch is. It's the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black. In TF2, you're likely to see every single one of the classes used at least once per competitive tournament final. In Overwatch, the same is not true at all.

Don't engage with the Overwatch fags, they're either baiting or irredeemably retarded.

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IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR

>>382526351
He quit due to a wrist injury, but has come back on a part-time basis since his wrist is never getting better.
>>382526462
What were the stats like in the version you liked the most?

>>382525435
Like you and your autistic friends? Then go and pick another typical comp game and leave tf2 alone.

>>382500890
Pybro reporting in.

>>382526492
The original version was fine, other than the set bonus. Once that got removed, there was no point in castrating it with the reload nerf.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQQvvgTraU
>tfw water's tf2 server is long dead

>>382525747
I thought the 2014 demo nerf was making it so sticky bombs ramped up in damage after being fired, before being changed to the explosion radius nerf. I remember the 'medic took 20' memes.

>>382520957
The server kept dying and coming back

Like some sort of a retarded zombie

Medic is absolutely mandatory to win a game of TF2.
He's such a powerful healer that it slows down the game.
How do we fix this?

>>382527569
Dealing direct damage to a Medic, even if it's a stray bullet, slows down his uber/kritz charge rate for two seconds

>>382528362
Uber is a factor for speeding up the game, so I'm not sure about that, but that might be a good idea for healing itself.
Sort of like a "reverse crit heals" situation.

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>>382506130
Process
Medic
Flare Gun
Scorch Shot

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>>382506130
>Gravelpit
>Engineer/Demo
>Stock shotgun
>Huntsman

>>382529645
good taste
maybe i should have said "unlock" instead of "weapon" since listing stock is pretty redundant

Tf2 fanboys are fucking trash just like the game

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>we want the dead ringer to be more predictable
>we'll make it no longer gain cloak from metal packs, which will make spies less predictable as they won't go to metal packs any more

The Dead Ringer needed a nerf, but not this one.

>>382531104
Dead Nigger, against players who are as good as you are, is pretty weak. It needed a rework rather than a nerf.

>>382531104
God forbid spies actually learn from their mistakes and acquire some form of skill instead of this constant *it was a hologram* bullshit.

>>382500890
>reserve shooter on pyro
Pls don't

>>382526445
But overwatch isn't balanced either isn't it ?
I won't pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on the subbect but aren't heroes like bastion, genji and.lucio mandatory to win?

>>382522702
Yeah I love giant hitboxes, not having to aim, infinite ammo spamfests, and press q to kill all on screen.

>>382532718
>I won't pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on the subbect but aren't heroes like bastion, genji and.lucio mandatory to win?
Yeah, absolutely. I did mention in my post how badly balanced OW is. It's in the middle of my post if you look.
>>382532854
Not to mention that 20/24 of their characters move slower than 8/9 of TF2's characters.

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>>382515880
That's the spirit!

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>>382506130
>Map
Asteroid is probably the map I've had the most fun on; objectively speaking, I wouldn't call it a GOOD map, but I love big, sprawling maps with tons of rooms and hallways and such. Steel runs a close second, but Asteroid stands out due to being really unique in TF2.
>Class
Hard to say. I love Pyro, but aside from maps where being able to airblast people off cliffs is a viable strategy, or cases where you can pester snipers with flare guns, naturally, he's useless. Generally speaking I'd have to go with Scout; you can go fast, jump high (although the upcoming Atomizer change where you have to hold the bat and can't use the Winger's jump boost with it is going to be a bummer), and generally just mess around. FaN also lets you knock people around, but since you're a scout you can still be useful outside of maps where you can push people off of cliffs.
>Most balanced weapon
I guess the stock shotgun. It works exactly how you'd expect it to; doesn't do shit at range, but up-close it can kill with a full clip.
>Most fun weapon
Personally, either the stock flamethrower or the Cowmangler. Pushing people off of things is fun, and in general the amount of knockback the flamethrower does is fun to just mess with to annoy people, even if you don't kill them. The Cowmangler isn't generally useful, but the charged shot is just so much fun to surprise people with, since generally, nobody really uses the Cowmangler, and even fewer use the charge shot.

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>TF2
>competitive

Name the last time the game had a major tournament with 1 million for the winners.

>>382533804
Its competitive because is about competing
The game itself is casual fun and its fine that way

>>382525747
>Airblast jumps
God, please. If all they do is give Pyro an airblast jump, I'll be happy.

>>382533804
>Esports should be about the money
Esports should be a casual thing. You should be playing the game because you like it, not because you want that money.
Noone should make esports their career, that's retarded. Look at what it's done to games like League and CS:GO. Teams paying each other to throw games, teams throwing games to win bets. It's disgusting.
Esports should have never gone beyond casual.

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>>382531104
>>382531169
>It's a Valve kills the game by nerfing all the fun weapons to hell episode

>>382500185
Siege is comfy. TF2 is grating

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>>382534013
can't wait for all those spy mains who wasted $600 on their australium amby and unusuals to quit the game when the update hits

>>382534013
What is the image even supposed to show? That the playercount has been mostly constant for the past five years? But that contradicts your post, doesn't it?

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>>382506130
>vsh shit
>heavy
>fishcake
>festive minigun

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>>382533864
Something being competitive isn't a deliberate design choice. A game can be labeled as competitive when there's a growing or stable scene of players actively seeking competition and hosting tournaments.
>>382533982
Esports was always about money and mainstream appeal to casuals. Not every casual can be super good at a video game, that's why people would pay money to see high level competition in csgo, dota, fighting games, and more. Comp TF2 is just underwhelming to watch and doesn't really look different from shitty scrims and that's why it will never be esports, its the darts of esports.

>>382534568
Look at 2017; amount of players is nosediving faster then a plane with no survivors.

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>>382534656
Are you talking about the bottom graph? Because that downward spike happens with a lot of games on steamcharts

>>382534656
You are as dumb as the people that make stock price threads

>>382532965
Be patient I have autism

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>>382534574
>shokolad
>most balanced
Explain How.

>keys are now worth 30 refined metal
>keys worth 2 ref was 50 years ago

>>382525465
>Play scout
>50-0 at the end of the game
>"FUCKING CHEATERS KYS XD OMG XDD"

>>382535215
Whenever I get three refs, I craft a hat for shits and giggles.
Long gone are the autistic times of getting into the hatconomy for me.

>>382535253
>Play Scout
>Use Bonk near sentry nest
>Engies go: "OH MY GOD, CHEATER, IT SAYS MISS MISS MISS, ANON CHEATER"
I felt genuinely depressed.

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>>382506130
>2fort
>Heavy or Medic
>Natasha
>Family Business
Call me basic but 24/7 2fort servers had some of the most skilled players I have ever met back in the day. Now those same servers are ghost towns.

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>>382500185
>hero shooters
>competitive

What's wrong with forcing pure stock (minus skins) on comp?

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I still don't understand why new players immediately gravitate towards playing sniper and spy. Sniper I can kinda understand because hes the class thats the most similar to standard fps games but why spy? He's arguably the hardest class to play so why the fuck do new players not play something simpler to learn like pyro or heavy to start off with. I'm just so sick of this 4 spies 4 snipers meme

>>382535619

>hero shooter

ah, the sign of someone born after 2001.

>>382535683
Literally "no fun allowed" attitude.

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>The Original has the most kickass sound effects and the most unobtrusive viewmodel in the game
>But it requires different musle memory than any other rocket launcher

>>382535215
I don't understand why people still don't get this.
Scrap is an infinitely generated resource.
Keys held their value. It's scrap which is continuously devaluing itself until the end of time.

>>382535726
Suits make him cool and stealth instakill is a concept that reminds them of Ass Creed

>>382535861
Gotta make sacrifices if you want old school cool.
Mastering Original is a testament that you don't rely on crutches enough for the muscle memory aspect to matter.

>>382535818
TF2 has become a fuckin' hero shooter, we're not talking 2007 anon.

>>382535726
Both are classes that tend not to get into direct fights. Something that scare new players.

>>382535726
Gate Sniper and Spy behind a tutorial forcing players to understand when it is not a good idea to pick the classes, and the amount of Sniper/Spy players will drop massively.

>>382505649
What map is this? Hell where's a half decent community server that runs legit custom maps?

Everyone agrees that the Equalizer was the best thing ever added to TF2? (before it was nerfed)

>>382535852
But pure stock + no crit Highlander are unarguably the most balanced form of the game, considering that both teams are of the same skill.

>>382506130
>favourite map
cp5_Gorge
>favourite class
Scout
>candidate for "most balanced weapon"
implying I play this game for balance
>>382506130
Would've been Sandman or Loch n Load before being neutered and spade. Now nothing is exactly 'fun' to use.

>>382536247
More balanced doesn't equal to more fun.

>>382500185
>Best competitive shooter
>When 2 soldiers are allowed on 6v6
lolno

>>382536396
1: It's "spayed", not "spade". One is a removal of ovaries, the other is a digging implement.
2: Plenty is "fun" to use in TF2. The multiple other responses from even jaded anons confirm this. You're being overly dramatic.

>>382532273
>class designed for close combat can kill in the close combat
oh, the horrors

>>382531169
I've never considered the dead ringer to be bad because it's overpowered, but rather because it's a get out of jail free card that is entirely annoying to deal with.

>>382506130
>favourite map
Koth_Lakeside or most koth maps anyway.
>favourite class
My most played ones are Scout, Soldier, Pyro and Spy. I'll go with Spy as I have most fun with it.
>candidate for "most balanced weapon"
Stock shotgun.
>candidate for "most fun weapon"
Scorch Shot.

>>382537090
>You're being overly dramatic
Very well, there's two weapon I still enjoy using and that's the Direct Hit and the Scottish Resistance. They're among the very few weapons Valve hasn't gutted since their release so I still find them enjoyable.

>>382535726
>these responses
It's their insane damage potential obviously. Just click on heads or backs and win fights.

>>382537462
Maybe it's the sum of all answers and not just one.

>>382506130
>Sujin
>Sniper
>Bazaar Bargain
>Huntsman

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>>382500185
I genuinely miss when tf2 wasn't infested with cosmetics, children, and wasn't f2p.
>All the ways to play classic tf2 are dead

>>382537658
>Sniper likes Suijin
Who woulda thunk

>>382537672
>I genuinely miss when tf2 wasn't infested with (...), children
So never?

You need to remove the nostalgia goggles. Even TFC had a significant community portion of children.
Being P2P does not stop kiddies with mummy's credit card from accessing the game. See: CoD, Overwatch.
Again, the nostalgia goggles.

>>382534013
>dead ringer
>fun
Maybe for Spy players, seeing as though it makes it braindead easy to get in and out of the enemy lines. It's absolute hell for the players who it is being used against. The afterburn immunity and speed boost mean that the only solid counters to the Dead Ringer are the Mad Milk and Jarate. Jarate isn't even that good at it as the Spy now outruns the Sniper, meaning that the Sniper has to tag the Spy with 3 to 4 bodyshots during the cloak.

>>382500312
Fuck Valve for nerfing the Degreaser's switch speed.

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>>382500185
Post your favorite demo weapon

>>382539560
But you posted it.

>>382506130
upward
pyro
most soldier's unlocks
scorch shot

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>>382500185
>hat spam everywhere
>a bunch of shitty modded servers everywhere with no clean competitive gameplay in sight
>comfy
sure thing faggot

>>382500890
Only gunslinger Engineer, mostly everyone I play is nearly stock.

>everyone shits on TF2
>nobody can name a better fps

And no don't say OW because you can't even 1v1 each other without hardcounter bullshit in that game.

>>382501816
The way random crits work is that they actually reward higher skilled players, not bad ones.
This guy is a total faggot but he at least made a good video on why random crits are bad for new players.
https://youtu.be/vnU_H9ZkYF8

>>382540108
theres a literal 1v1 mode where both players are randomly selected the same character on both sides

>>382500185
I stopped playing right after free to play. It seemed when free2play started, there was a massive influx of noobs\crybabies that ruined the community and demanded to use Pyro, and hold down W+Mouse1 and win the entire game and be completely invincible doing it. After they kept buffing the scrub classes and nerfing the skill classes I just stopped playing with all my friends.

>>382539924
don't join a fucking modded server if you wanna play comp you retard.
play the built in comp or join a team to play.

>>382540108
this

>>382540172
Yeah but in other fps you can solo the entire team by yourself.

>>382500185
>What went right?
Everything went wrong and tf2 still is the best shooter. It just shows how bad the competition really is.

>>382535726
Disguising as an enemy and turning completely invisible at will are cool fucking powers. When you're playing against shitters disguises can actually work and the mindgames are exhilarating. Every FPS has gunners, rocket launchers, flamethrowers, sometimes minelayers and turret builders but I don't know any others with a play style quite like the Spy.

It's not nearly as cool in practice where everyone spychecks and chances are you could better help your team using any other class, but that initial rush is quite something

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>>382506130
>favourite map
cp_freight
>favorite class
Character wise? Soldier. Gameplay wise? No preference, I can play them all.
>candidate for "most balanced weapon"
All stock weapons.
>candidate for "most fun weapon"
Scottish resistance hands down. It's fun to make all sorts of elaborate traps that causes people to chimp out or panic because nobody knows how to deal with it when used correctly.

>>382540202
I joined instarespawn servers like 2fort. Surprisingly fun if both teams aren't pussies.

>>382536132
Nah it was the sandman.

>>382540632
2fort is so popular because it's actually a really fun map.

>>382541468
It sucks when your team is too scared to leave and you end up getting shutdown by snipers and sentries on the bridge.

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>>382541468
It's more spread out and empty than Coldfront, more chokepointy than Goldrush and more anti-objective than Hightower.

>>382541608
I'm not going to sit here and try to quantify why something is fun, wew lad

>>382540202
>old down W+Mouse1 and win the entire game

No that's not happening
It seems you are the noob/crybaby

>>382541926
I think he's saying that shitters wanted the pyro to be buffed, not that the pyro was overpowered.

>>382541756
not him, but while "fun" may be mostly subjective, there are many matters of consensus
2fort is not a good DM map for most classes because of its cramped spaces.
It's not a good objective capturing map because it's got the most difficult to capture objective in tf2 (even more so than 2fort).

>>382542174
>it's not a good map
>but everyone and their mum plays it
Are they just pretending to like it?

>>382542174
>2fort is more difficult to capture objectives in than 2fort

>>382542280
>McDonalds isn't good food
>but everyone and their mum eats it
>Are they just pretending to like it?
2fort is a nice safe map for new players. It doesn't challenge them very much because the design restricts skilled players and the "safe zones" and "danger zones" of the map are very clearly delinated.
It also provides Sniper with one of the easiest maps to play on.

Was there such thing as a dustbowl map where all the maps were combined in one?

>>382539924
>""""spamming""" hats when you can only see it on a person if they are on your team or not attack
>not just joining regular valve servers
dumb sweetie poster

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>>382542334
I meant to say Hightower, it was a difficult day at work.

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>>382542456
Yes? It's called stock Dustbowl.

>You have to wait a week after setting up steam guard to trade
Why not something reasonable, like 24 hours? Why are valve such jews?

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>>382542280
2fort is not ideal for CTF simply because there are only two ways in and out of the intel room, but it is perfect as a "instarespawn endless team deathmatch map."

Want to play sniper? Sit on the battlements, duel other snipers, shoot people coming out of the enemy fort. Want to play Spy or Pyro? Lots of places for ambushes and hiding. Engineer? Plenty of ideal sentry building spots.

Want to get into a brawl? Walk out the front door and head towards the enemy base, you're guaranteed to run into something to kill.

The map is perfect for if you want to try your hand at various classes.

>>382542574
because morons get scammed out of their accounts all the time and they don't want to face a class action for their lack of action, dongus.

Complain at them for something they're actually doing wrong, like their ridiculously inadequate hiring policies or their stance on paid mods.

>>382506130
>granary
>soldier
>quake rocket launcher
>flare gun

thinking about reinstalling

but i know im just gonna be disappointed cause its never going to be the same as in 2007/8

anyways, did soldier and demo get gutted or are they still fun?

>>382540504

>The very first day TF2 goes F2P
>Get on Spy with a friend
>Equip dead ringer
>Dominate 8 enemies in a 12v12
>All voice chat enabled
>"WHY AREN'T ANYONE KILLING THOSE SPIES?"

Goddamn it was the funnest day I've ever had playing spy.

>>382511264
The ow ctf implementation was even worse than the one in tf2.

I don't know why people seem so eager to fuck up ctf when you could just implement it the classic way and it just works.

>>382542886
soldier and demo have been op for fucking ages
how retarded und bad are you

>>382542619
>but it is perfect as a "instarespawn endless team deathmatch map."
It's not that either, because the deathmatching skill of many classes is restricted by the cramped map design.

>>382543057
Can it really be called OP if everyone plays it anyway from time to time though?

>>382504229
>blown away by the open beta of overwatch

so you never actually played tf2? if you had, nothing in overwatch would have been mindblowing in the slightest, 'cause it was all in tf2