How do you move forward from perfection? What can Blizzard possibly

bring kel'thuzad back

>>382452328
you mean IV

>>382452328
Preorder exlucise building skins

Just give the same amount of freedom for creating custom games/maps and it'll be 10/10.

Daily quests

Hearthstone promotions

Remove units and building, and just leave heroes, who even wants to control so many things at once. Make them customizable with mounts and skins
Wait

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>blizz remasters wc3
>blizz makes wc4
>takes wc3 plot replaces with different characters

>>382452328
A more dynamic campaign, like in SC2, with a less contrived storytelling.
Stop tower walls.

>>382452328
Retcon WoW. Say it takes place in a different timeline or some shit, Blizzard can pull something out of their ass. The point is, WoW is a clusterfuck and we should go back to simpler times.

some fag said he was gonna remake dbz tribute in starcraft 2 but i haven't seen anything

>>382452328
pretend WoW never happened

>>382453067
90% of WC3 plot had already been "he got CORRUPTED/MAD/POWER HUNGRY" already, though.

>>382452384
Both IIII and IV are grammatically correct. IV is simply the most common way we write it.

The fact that none of the comments relate to expanding strategy or tactics is pathetic.

>>382452328
>perfection

SC:BW and SC2 are both better

>>382454926
I thought IIII wasn't used outside of clockfaces.

>>382455004
No, idiot

>>382452379
HECK YES

>>382455094
>better balance
>more diverse builds
>no heroes
>longer lived pro scenes
>cannot be mastered by human beings

Yes

>>382453414
>>382453786
Explain to a non-WoW player who's curious, if you don't mind.

>squad based units
>larger maps
>fuck trying to deal with the current continuity, do a reboot
>emphasis on richer gameplay-units can fortify civilian buildings, higher ground makes ranged units hit further out, ley energy points buff magic using units and heros, melee units can't attack buildings or walls with their swords, only siege units can do that

Pure cancer or mite b kewl?

>>382453349
>Stop tower walls.
Get a load of this crybaby.

>>382455510
>units can fortify civilian buildings
>melee units can't attack buildings or walls with their swords, only siege units can do that

Pure cancer

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>>382452384
>IV
>I + V
>1 + 5
>4 = 6

melee combat gets REALLY good animations
instead of a footman and a grunt mechanically hacking each other to death it's all biff and pow and bodies flying

>>382453349
>like in SC2

Jesus... to think that this is Warcraft IV audience.

>>382456069

they should put throws in like age of mythology

>>382453349
Fuck that, I want the Warcraft 2 style of campaign combined with Warcraft 3 style of campaign. Like, every mission should start with you getting the report, like you did in War2 - prepping you up because it is WAR and then yourself/the main hero character goes to the battlefield and plays out the drama in-game like it was in warcraft 3.

>>382456069
>>382456358
Eh, I don't want that. Micromanagement is a big part of Warcraft 3 and having units locked in animations is counter-intuitive to that.

Throws might be something though... for certain units. Like bears and mountain giants.

>>382452517
*Shadowverse promotions

ftfy

>no hero units
>more macro
>no upkeep

pls

>>382455257
>better balance
Nobody cares about e-""""""sports""""""
>more diverse builds
Factually incorrect
>no heroes
This isn't a pro, heroes made WC3 complex and varied
>longer lived pro scenes
Nobody cares about e-""""""sports""""""
>cannot be mastered by human beings
Nobody cares about e-""""""sports""""""

>>382457306
>he doesn't watch and play rts competitively

Your loss I guess

>>382452328
same reason valve cant make HL3

>>382457049
I don't think it has to be like dawn of war where they're locked into some 5 second elaborate kill animation, just make it snappy, varied and maybe with a few choreographed moves between different units, and include throws and knockback effects
when orcs and knights clash it should be like someone drove a wagon full of tin cans into a wagon full of pork chops, you could add some momentum-based effects too

>>382455257
>better balance

That depends on how you look at it. There are way more useless units in SC than there is in Warcraft. Like Queens, Scouts, Firebats, Dark Archons etc

Whenever I see a competitive SC-match, they often only use 2-3 unit types each...

>>382457457
well, they could have different attacks I guess. Like, one slash from the right, one slash from the left, footie bashing with shield fast etc

>>382457507
I'm talking more on a race vs race level, but a lot of that is thanks to mapmakers. On blizzards original maps, Terran is broken as all fuck.

Queens, Firebats and Darkhons are all used competitively, but it is very rare. Queens occasionally see use vs mech, firebats can be good against some ling openers, darkhons are pretty good super lategame especially pvp. Scout a complete and utter shit though.

>>382457657
I don't think you even need to consider possible mechanical implications, you could just give the whole task to the animation and sound teams, and blizzard has really good sound teams

>>382457393
>not obsessing over one stupid videogame to measure your e-penis with e-penises of other turboautists
The woe is me

>>382456438
>I want the Warcraft 2 style of campaign
Do you mean the "move from one scarce gold mine to the other for five hours" style or "here are three enemy bases and you're in between, have fun" style?

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>>382452328
Maybe instead of Warcraft IIII they can finally balance fuckign Warcraft 3 TFT.

The balance is fucking shite.
It's better than RoC.
It's better than it was before.
But it's shite.

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>>382452328
Don't even try and just remaster this shit to support all the custom games from the last 10+ years.


That, or make some plot contrivance with alt timeline / alt universe / timeskip. It's just a matter of time when WoW runs out of bad guys to kill in raids. Eventually they'll need more new lore to rape.

>>382457306

>Nobody cares about e-""""""sports""""""

Millions of people do. Thats the worst part.

>>382452328
They won't

WoW is 100 tiimes more profitable and wc4 would require 10 times the budget

There's just no logical reason to do it

>>382455047
>>382454926
I thought llll is incorrect.

>>382457306
>Nobody cares about e-""""""sports""""""
That is simply false.

>>more diverse builds
>Factually incorrect
lmao

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You're never going to get WC3 custom games to happen ever again.

You're never going to get a follow-up story in the style of WC3 when that style is so fucking aged already.

You're never going to get a Blizzard RTS while Starcraft proves that the world doesn't care about RTSs anymore.

Any single microsecond you spend speculating on WC4 is time completely and tragically wasted.

Just let this idea die. Please.

>WC3 custom games will never, ever be a thing again
Before you say DOTA 2 I'll remind you that the custom games in DOTA 2 look like shit, play like shit, are completely fucking dead and don't have the same charm.

Custom games in WC3 were special because of the community, the graphics, and the creativity players had with the limitations WC3 had.

>>382455902

seems like you cant into latin numerals

>>382452328
Reign of Chaos sucked. WC3 was only good when tft was released

>>382455417
Its really hard to explain Warcraft lore Post-WoW. To explain it simply, many important characters were handwaved off in lesser dungeons Zul'jin and Anub'arak come to mind. And theres much more Sci-Fi now, especially in the current expansion.

>>382462745
The custom game thing has been done now in SC2 and Dota 2. It's time to face facts that modern audiences don't care about custom games.

>>382462745
I've had this discussion before with a friend. Why DIDN'T the custom game scene in DOTA take off?(Large Playerbase, Free to play, Backing by Valve) I mean SC2 even has a pretty decent custom game scene its not as good as Brood War and especially not WC3 but its light years past DOTA's. The concensus we came to is that players who choose to play DOTA/LoL/HotS are less inclined to try out new games and the ones they do try out are just more MOBA(See DoTA IMBA, one of the more popular or most popular custom games on DOTA 2, which is just more DOTA)

>>382462745
14 years back it was the hottest shit, but modern audiences just don't care.
The closest we got to user created content extending a games life was Skyrim, but even that stops as shown by the remaster still not having the script extender.

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>>382455902
retard

>>382457507
Firebats and Queens are actually being used regularly. Dark Archons have some uses, but are pretty rock/paper/scissors and nobody goes for what they counter. The only units you don't see in brood war are air units (scout, wraith, devourer), and maybe ghosts.

>>382452328
>inevitable
you meant to write "implausable".

>>382464120
I'd have to agree with you here. Many ASSFAGGOTS players don't even play other video games.

>make wc4 knowing it will dissapoint all the nostalgia fags like it did with d2 and d3
>leave it be and let it be remembered as something amazing

>>382464239
>>382464547
I think part of the reason for this is that 14 years ago you had one or two games in your possession, so having"games within the game" was the coolest shit and also a means to curb boredom, whereas now the average gamers has dozens of games on hand that are all completely separate from each other and game value as a whole has gone down drastically over the years.

>>382463665
Not necessarily, i think DOTA 2 is gimped by its player base, the type of people who desire to play League/Dota all the time aren't the type of people willing to sit through a match of Parasite, Legion TD, Dark Deeds etc as theres no "fast paced" action.
SC2 was gimped early on by Blizzard's terrible idea to only show lobbies of games based on their popularity rather than what lobbies were open at the time. Its coming back but Blizzard also has the new "No more DOTA's" clause in their ToS.

>>382465047
>Blizzard also has the new "No more DOTA's" clause in their ToS
The what now?

>>382465047
I don't know, I used to play on Battle.net a shitload of custom games with the people I used to play Dota.
Hell, they even introduced me to a shitload of more obscure maps that were actually a lot of fun.

>>382454215
Who?
Except for Arthas, literally who?

>>382459454
The nathrezim on the bottom looks like trash, so does the death knight.

>>382467103
Medivh retcon.

>>382463496
shut the fuck up kid

>>382467507
What do you mean by this?

>>382467626
Possessed by Sargeras, he a good boy all along.

>>382467103
grom and illidan in ROC
furbolgs in TFT they really get the full brunt of the corruption stick in the franchise
you can argue Kel'thuzad but his fall from grace was before the game

>>382467103
>Medivh
>Orcs
>Illidan
>Kael`thas
>Ner`zhul
>Gul`dan

>>382467798
>Illidan

Haha no my friend

>>382465414
In the SC2 terms of service they have rights to your custom game if you hit it big. This is after the grey area that was DOTA 1 for WC3. DotA was made with Blizzard assets but the intellectual property of it was made by multiple customers/modders over the course of the years. So to prevent another DoTA 2 fiasco where a wildly popular custom game($$$) slips out of their hands and goes to another company, they put in the clause.

>>382467912
>Kael'thas

Happened in WoW

>Ner'zhul
?????

>>382467912
Wasn't Gul'Dan evil by his own accord? I think he's one of the characters that knew what he was getting into fully.

>>382465767
Well those were people who bought WC3 for Warcraft 3 and then found DoTA(and as you said a shitload of other custom games). Not F2Players who only exist to play MOBAs.
I'm saying the people who play DotA 2 are more likely to stick to only DotA 2 than try custom games.

Warcraft II mission themselves were pretty bland and lacked variety tb'h. Even Warcraft III's missions more or less boils down to "destroy the enemy bases, kill the forest critters, take the gold mine and win". At least every mission of SC2 has a unique design element to play with.

>>382455417
Pretty much every single plot relevant antagonist has been killed off in WoW raids/expansions. There's not much left for WC4 to cover.

>>382468358
I get you man, still, I tried the Dota 2 Custom Games and was severely disappointed.
The map tools are ass and don't hold a candle to that sweet map editor of Warcraft 3.

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>>382452615
Underrated.

>>382468251
>Happened in WoW
Yet started in TFT.
>Muh people have this weird desire for something more
>It's an addiction to magic and you basically need demons to satisfy it
>Oh, ok

>?????
The whole Lich King thing.

>>382468294
Yes, however I wasn't just talking about corruption but also the generic lust for power. Both Ner`zhul and Gul`dan were evil alright but then then wanted more power that lead to catastrophic backlash yet both of them managed to spread their influence even further and corrupt Arthas/make Illidan even more fucked up etc etc.
The plot of Warcraft is basically tied together on three excuses: corruption, madness and lust for power, just as I said in my original post. I mean, I love WC3 but don't try to pretend its story was particularly good.

>>382468772
>The plot of Warcraft is basically tied together on three excuses: corruption, madness and lust for power, just as I said in my original post. I mean, I love WC3 but don't try to pretend its story was particularly good.
I don't disagree. My biggest gripe with the lore is characters can't actually be bad, they must have been corrupted or they are actually savors in disguise, it's never their fault.
I mean look what at what they fucking did to Sargeras, he a good boi, dindu nuffin trying to protect us from da void lords and shit.
Are you kidding me?

>>382455417

Most of the plot points from the RTS games have been resolved, and most of the characters have been killed, the story is reaching a natural end with Legion but literally an ancient evil awakens because the MMO is still making money.

>>382468525
It can be a reboot starting at Wc3, or fill the gaps between Warcraft and WoW.

Actually, any game made by blizzard right now should be a reboot.

>>382469226
Isn't Sargeras a mix of corrupt + good boy now ? Like he wants to save us from the Void Lords by eradicating us because the Nathrezim convinced him it's the only way.

>>382468772
>three excuses: corruption, madness and lust for power
Aside from "power from primal fears/emotions", which would be a complete Warhammer ripoff, you don't have much to build a story.

>story was particularly good.
It was entertaining and the storytelling was on point.

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>>382457507
how many unit types do you see?

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Scourge banner when?

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>>382459256
This is the truth.
Undead's been shit since forever.
Orc is forced to play BM+SH on every single fucking map, sometimes an absolute you go TC against talon Nelf, and some absolute madmen go farseer against human.
Nelf is too susceptible to cheese and too cheesy with their meme ancients.
Human is forced to go casters on every single fucking matchup.

>>382452328
You don't. That's why SC2 sucked and SC1 is still going strong.

WC3 was fun and all but all that heroes and item bullshit did nothing but narrow the game to a few key strategies and set the stage for WoW and literally kill itself.

>>382471147
SC2 sucked because Blizzard fell for esports meme.

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>>382452328
>Retcon WoW into alternative timeline while WCIV (or IIII if you want to sound like a clock fetishist) starts 10 years after TFT
>Four Resources (Gold, Wood, Oil and a special resource used for end-tier upgrades, units and buildings)
>Squads instead of singular units (the more powerful/advanced units, the smaller the squads)
>Structures can be built on land, on/under water and in the air
>Heroes are left as they are power level-wise (but can choose between three different ultimate abilities)
>Inventory is changed from six slots to WoW-like inventory (before it got simplified)
>There are still three stats (Strength, Intellect and Agility)
>Six Factions (Alliance, Horde, Scourge, Night Elves, Blood Elf x Naga Kingdom, Burning Legion)
>Instead of balance, all factions are asymmetrical due to differences in gameplay
>All factions get ships and sea monsters
>Dranei are like they were in TFT (WoW's Dranei are renamed as True Eredar and they replace HElves/BElves in the Alliance)
>Horde gets Ogres and Goblins back (Ogres are more defensive tanks to Tauren becoming more offensive tanks)
>All Night Elf structures are Ancients now
>Naga make up half the BElve/Naga navy
>Sub-Factions are a thing (each sub-faction has access to unique structures, research and units that add some spiciness to the gameplay)
>Maps can be made either with symmetrical or asymmetrical starting locations
>Burning Legion would be lethal due to all units having Chaos Damage (this is balanced with having the most expensive stuff)
>Multi not requiring 24h link with the net
>Community is left to its own, yet it will be supported by devs
>Map creation can be done via map generator or highly advanced map editor (the former can be modified by the latter)

>>382471284
sc2 sucked because it thought that making the game easier would somehow make it better.. they should h ave lowered unit selection to 6 instead of 12 and slapped a 2 on the box

>>382471147
>kill itself

jesus christ do you autists have no fucking self awareness, you won't ever possess a thousandth of the wealth WoW brought blizzard. Even with it's lowest subs it's more of a success than 99% of the game market.

No, wc4 will be an absolute abomination lorewise akin to wow and sc2.

>>382471494
The subject was WC3. Setting up WoW meant we get no more WC RTS games. It killed itself.

>>382471284
>>382471378
>>382471147
SC2 sucked almost solely because of tone-deaf writing.

>>382471494
BTW, what's Legion's status? How many players are still active? Or is the game going down again?

>>382471636
>>382471284
Sucked because they made it all about attack moving

>>382467971
Going from a blind guy with a crush on best elf to a blind half demon with a crush on best elf would count as corruption boyo.

>>382471369
>ships
>four resources
>squads
>massive inventories, focusing even more on heroes

c'mon naga

>>382471369
there is a panda in this pic

>>382471369
kys
>6factions
kys even more, impossible to balance

>>382455902
American

>>382472106
where?

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>>382472213

Can't wait for Warcraft 3 Remastered with golden plate bling skins for Arthas and vape for Kel'Thuzad, we have to pander to millenials to get sales

>>382471696
There's like 100 people still playing and grinding artifact power

>>382472294
to be fair WC3 was already reference heavy enough to make anthony burch blush

>>382472262
fucking samwise

Just remove the limit for 13(?) units at a time marked, better graphics & put the number 4 in it.

>>382452328
>Orc and Undead both have 1 (ONE) viable strategy
>Human can just spam towers and attack-move with siege tanks
>Night Elf either goes early Huntress rush or harasses until Bear/Dryad with optional Talon cheese vs Orc

The balance is pretty shit

>>382472147
>Impossible to balance
>Alliance would be jack-of-all-trades
>Horde would be like Alliance, but with more brute force elements
>Scourge would be spammers drowning enemies in skeletons, and later get access to powerful stuff
>NElves are specialists and glass cannons, but get Mountain Giants and certain upgrades that make them more survivable
>BElves/Nagas would start out as jacks-of-all-trades (BElves), only to turn into a more elite force (Naga and more powerful BElf stuff)
>Legion is the elite/specialist faction and would be a game breaker if not having expensive stuff

>>382472262
Dammit Samwise. Pandas are one thing, but Scourge ones are too much.

>>382472346
To believe that there are people that are still grinding...

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>>382472560

>>382452328
>perfection
lol

>>382472852
Name one RTS where there isnt a 3 factions domination.
You simply cant because it doesnt exist.

>>382472852
>Impossible to balance

>WC3
>2004
>Everyone complains UD are OP
>nothing changes
>2017
>everyone agrees UD are the weakest race by far

>SC2
>Everyone crys protoss are OP
>2017
>All the pros agree widow mines are the strongest race

People will never agree on "balance".
I just want them to make a fun game. Who cares if 1 race is weaker? Don't play it. Don't not make it because it might not be balanced.

>>382473065
What is SupCom: FA?

What is Age of Empires?

What is Age of Mythology: The Titans?

What is...I need to look up. I remember there being some other RTSs.

>>382473198
>Who cares if 1 race is weaker?
Depends how you play said race/faction. Sometimes a faction looks weak, but becomes strong if a player knows what to do with it. It doesn't need to be balanced. It would be more about how the player plays it.

>>382473198
>nothing changes

Are you joking? There were wild swings in power levels of the races throughout the patches and with the release of new heroes.

>>382452379
He's technically still alive anyways. We never found his phylactery a second time.

>>382473443
None of those rts ever went competitive.

>>382473736
AoE2 has been/still is played professionally.
a better argument is that the races in it are a lot more similar than they are in most RTS games.

>>382464120
I think it's just hammer being unintuitive as shit, I mean I remember trying and not even being able to figure out how to place units or something like that. There really was no real attempt to make it intuitive.

>>382473736
And why would WC IV go? SCII is the competitive shit and better if the e-sports meme doesn't jump on WC IV.

AoE 2 is still competitive to this day, but it's not a e-sports fest.

Yet knowing Blizzard, they'll jump from SCII to WC IV and make it a e-sports fest. Probably by making the races/factions carbon copies for PERFECT BALANCE instead of making asymmetrical factions with different playing styles.

>>382473917
Factions in SupCom do differ between each other in terms of units and certain buildings.

Also AoM factions also differ in various elements (favor gaining, Egyption Pharaohs and Priests, Norse Infantry building stuff and etc.).

>>382464547
true, there were 3 kinds of WC3 players, with only slight overlap;
the kind who played the standard melee game
the kind who played only DotA
the kind who played custom games except for DotA

valve was targeting the wrong audience from the start.

>>382474541
I just want to play a game of Vampirism Fire.
Hopefully, one in which I'm not killed at 5 minute mark.

>>382474541
>valve was targeting the wrong audience from the start.
You retarded or just pretending? Dota was so prominent people claimed it killed the customs community just by existing, because the stupid ass game browser was filled with only Dota.

>>382455257
>longer lived pro scenes

Just like SC2, right?

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>>382473443
Empire Earth let you make your own faction, pick buffs/special units/exc.

>>382473736
>went competitive.
You know what makes a game competitive?
It being popular, it being easy to watch, and the devs being smart enough to sponsor tournaments.
LoL is not the number 1 esport because it's balanced. It's #1 because LoL is fun, easy to get into, and the devs sponsored tournaments out the ass when it launched. Hearthstones a fucking esport and you tell me that game is not heavily RNG based.

Besides that long ass rant, RTS games don't need to be competitive, they need to be fun. All the games that anon listed were fun.

>>382474834
go back through the reply trail, referring to valve trying to restart WC3 customs with DotA 2's editor.

>>382475026
>Empire Earth
Oh, right. Forgot about that.

>>382472106
Are you sure you aren't looking at the druids of the claw?

>>382454926
weak bait

>>382474541
The same is true for SC2. Right now I'm willing to bet the majority of people still playing it are only playing it for the arcade (myself included).

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>>382452328
You call that perfection?

So the reborn of the custom maps and playing online will come with this? I miss those days

>>382476094
yeah because sc2 has such a BOOMING custom map scene

>>382455417
Think DBZ levels of time travel and dimension hopping. It's a cluster fuck. Not to mention many important characters were killed off like little bitches in short 5 man dungeons. They ressurrect old characters just to kill them off again.

>>382455510
Is 256x256 not big enough?
And with some scripting, you could totally do all that in a custom game.

>>382464120
I wasn't even aware Dota 2 had customs. How do I do that? That could be the problem right there.

>>382473582
You'd figure Bolvar would have mentioned him or he'd have shown up in Legion by now. Guy's a mage on par with Jaina and Khadgar and an invaluable asset to the Scourge and yet not a single mention of him anywhere. Not even a "oh yeah, KT's off doing this to prepare for the Legion assaults" or whatever.

>>382476094
Custom maps and game modes are pretty much never gonna be as good as the old days now. No company, especially Blizzard, ever wants to be in the situation they were in with Dota where some kids with too much free time on the map maker created an entire new genre of game that took the world by storm and they were too slow to capitalize on it. Map and game mode customization is going to be heavily neutered from now on pretty much everywhere.

>>382467103
>Sylvannas (corrupted)
>Maiev (power hungry/mad)
>Illidan (power hungry/corrupted)
>Garithos (power hungry/mad)
>Kael'thas by the time you've defeated Magtheridon (power hungry/mad)
>Kel'Thuzad (corrupted)
>Gul'dan (power hungry/mad)
>Every demon ever, especially the dreadlords, Archimonde and Magtheridon (power hungry/mad/corrupted)
>Timmy (corrupted)
>A bunch of furbolgs (corrupted)
>Some treants (corrupted)
>A few Wildkins (corrupted)
>A number of trolls (corrupted)
>Naga (corrupted race)
>Satyr (corrupted race)
>Grom (power hungry/mad/corrupted)
>all the orcs lead by Grom (corrupted)
>Sapphiron (corrupted)
>all the evil orc tribes (power hungry/mad/corrupted)
>just about every single villager from Lordaeron and the surrounding environs (corrupted)
>Gul'dan (power hungry/mad)
>all those orcs that went with Gul'dan to visit the big guy's tomb (corrupted)

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, I haven't played the game in some time.

>>382480537
Maiev did nothing wrong

Blizz will never allow a liberal custom community again, there wont be a true sequel

>>382478392
the custom game scene in dota 2 is trash because Valve can't focus on more than one thing at a time. They promised to update the editor constantly after its release for the first year or so until it was 100% stable and then slowly update it as time went on. They couldn't keep this promise for more than three months.


Valve constantly breaks custom games with every update to the base game and no mapper wants to put up with working their ass off in fucking hammer only for their entire map to break two weeks later, as a result all of dota 2's custom games are low effort trash on memes

>>382478803
kt was sentient and best buds with arthas so i doubt he would work for bolvar.

>>382462512
Uhh... you know Warcraft 3 custom game servers are still up, right? I played a game of Footies just the other day.

>>382454215
Arthas and some forgettable mobs were the only one in WC3 who got corrupted. In TFT nobody was corrupted.