Why are they COMPLETELY FUCKING UNABLE to make a modern Sonic

Generations was pretty good, but was too short too

>>382410264
I know its hard to believe this and if your thread is bait then just consider this a (you) but there are people out there who really like some of the modern sonic games. I played adventures a couple of times and i really like it,heroes is disputed but i also liked it as a one time play and lets not forget about generations. If people want to continue the meme of the sonic curse they can go ahead but there are good sonic games out there

>>382410264
Sonic Mania says hi.

Because Sega STILL has no clue how to translate sonic gameplay into 3d, that's why they're always releasing new sonic games with different shitty gameplay praying that one of them is liked by the consumers while releasing Sonic unleashed daytime mode games with em because so far they're the least shit attempt at 3d sonic gameplay.

>>382410264
classic games were just 3-8 dudes in a room making levels with a basic understanding of game design
modern games are corporate projects worked on by hundreds of people in an attempt to make a hit action game full of intense story that always has to hit the shelves by the holiday season.

you do the math

>>382411734
What is the Sega of anime

>>382412620
Gonzo. They could never get that 3D stuff right. It killed them in the end.

>>382412824
I am surprised I got an actual reply for my shitty question kek
It's very accurate too. Although I think 3D hasn't been able to find its place in anime yet

>>382410763
Haha, this. And how do you feel about Sonic Unleashed, my friend? Was that a good game? Or how about Shadow the Hedgehog? Sonic 06? How about Sonic Boom? Sonic and the Black Knight? YOU PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT?

>>382412824
Gonzo isn't dead

>>382410264
A very simple reason, its fanbase.
They don't know what to focus on, they don't know what kind of "fans" they want to please, so they just try to please everybody. Sonic Mania doesn't want to please everybody, just people who like retro games, that's why it's coming out better than the uninspired bullshit that the "main" Sonic games are.
I honestly think its focus on "speed" it's what's killing the franchise, but I guess we'll never know that.

>>382410264
>Why are retro Sonic games so good
They aren't. Everything makes sense after you know this.

>>382410264
Do you really want to know the secret?

It's because Sonic is a fucking horrible concept for a platformer and even his "golden age" games are hilariously overrated.
Every segment in the original games where you go sanic fast is fucking railroaded shit that has little to no interactivity. When modern Sonic games try to give you the speed as well as the gameplay it's accused of requiring clairvoyance to beat and when it gives you more control of your movements it's criticized for not being true to old school fast Sonic. And this isn't just a fanboy thing, NOBODY will enjoy a modern Sonic game because the very concept of a Sonic game is rooted in a lack of interactivity. Mania will have this same exact issue.
It's not that high speed and great controls are exclusive (just ask Super Meat Boy, but frankly for any platformer you can get tips from Super Meat Boy), but that the original Sonic games set an expectation for the franchise that will flop horribly regardless of if it tries to become a more modern game or sticks rigidly to the past.

>>382410264
>>382411769
This. Also I hear Team Sonic is a very complicated place.

They should just keep making Generations sequels over and over.

>>382410264
I know the PR for Forces says that they're trying to refine what people liked about Unleashed and Generations, but the lackluster Classic Sonic gameplay, when shown next to Mania, demonstrates their complete lack of understanding of how the fuck to even go about doing that.

And they still need the half-baked Classic gameplay (and now a THIRD PLAYTSTYLE) to prop up the main gameplay style that they STILL can't figure out how to make stand on its own (spoiler: fully make it what it already tries to be: a fucking racing game).

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>>382410264
They refuse to implement a proper physics engine, and give Sonic the ability to roll around in a ball with real momentum.

How fucking sad was it, that Metroid Prime had better ball physics than Sonic Adventure 2?

>>382415136
How sad is it that the old Tony Hawk games had better fucking pinball physics than Adventure 2?

>>382415136
>Acting surprised when a Metroid game has a good physics system.
Super Metroid had an incredible sense of momentum and weight senpai.

Nostalgia

>>382410663
except the 2d parts were shit and that's 75% of the game

>>382415136
>>382415231
>muh physics

It being responsive and feeling nice is more important then some psuedo-accuracy.

>>382415465
Having a skill curve is more important than being immediately gratifying.

though being immediately gratifying should have been there too.

>>382415465
If it doesn't even have "pseudo" accuracy, then it doesn't even begin to scrape the threshold of "feeling nice".

>>382410264
>Why are they COMPLETELY FUCKING UNABLE to make a modern Sonic game?
Sonic Team is headed by Takashi Iizuka and he's an old fuddy duddy who's been around since Sonic 3, they probably need someone younger to design something with tight gameplay that's fun and not been done before.

>>382415136
>They refuse to implement a proper physics engine
Old school physics has so little to do with the declining quality, I think it's more they always present each game with some new mechanic or something but forget to iron out the kinks and release it as is. Think of all the new ideas they tried but all the mistakes that were created with them.

>>382413218
relax dude they're just video games, lol

>>382415136
>>382415465
>>382415637
It doesn't need to be accurate, it doesn't need a huge physics system, it just needs to stop focusing on SPEED and start focusing on momentum, and it needs to feel fun, that's it.

The thing about the old games, it's that even tho they weren't amazingly well crafted, they did have that thing were you built up momentum and it felt fun back then when there was basically nothing like that. If they built a 3D game were you beat a level by going across huge gaps, tunnels, loops or solving mini puzzles based on momentum, maybe it could work, but they don't, they focus on speed and weird ass gimmicks.

>>382415713
No I won't fucking relax, these games used to be my childhood, all anyone ever wants is for Sega to get their shit together and make a GOOD FUCKING SONIC GAME IN THE MODERN ERA FOR ONCE. Sonic Adventure 3. Or something, jesus! And before you say I'm getting too emotional or anything, tell me, how much money have you spent on these pieces of shit that are hyped to hell as "revolutionizing" the Sonic franchise when they turn out to be the same moronic, broken, dull, gimmicky pieces of garbage they keep churning out on a yearly basis. I'm fucking sick of it, I've had enough, at some point these fucks in their ivory towers need to be held accountable by the GAMERS! That's who they're making them for, right? It's so simple, just stick to the original gameplay and stick a full-fledged, detailed Chao Garden in there and maybe add a few different playable characters without changing the gameplay around too much... make it open world, and add lots of permanent upgrades like the Sonic Adventure games... and voila, there you go, a good Sonic game. Should not be fucking hard but for some reason Sony can't get it right. The last good Sonic games were literally the remastered versions of Sonic Adventure for Gamecube. Jesus, people like you honestly make me sick to my stomach, you're on a video game forum, how can you be complacent with pure garbage when they're literally spitting in your face, laughing at you for buying their bullshit over and over again, when the alternative could be so good? It's not like Sonic is a bad property. Like the OP stated, these games used to be good. The franchise needs to be wrested from these idiot's hands, it's really a travesty!

>>382416046
this better be pasta

>>382416046
I feel like you needlessly typed out too much, but i still agree with you

>>382415931
>If they built a 3D game were you beat a level by going across huge gaps, tunnels, loops or solving mini puzzles based on momentum, maybe it could work, but they don't, they focus on speed and weird ass gimmicks.
That may sound fun for you and I but the thing is games are designed a lot differently now, I'm pretty sure if you threw some shit like that in a modern Sonic game it'd turn a few heads and not in the positive way. Are they avoiding things like this? I think it's a good idea

Also the weird ass gimmicks are almost never implemented in a way that's good, it's always jarring and hamfisted. I was surprised by how well Colors used the Wisps though, I'm not sure if they'll be able to be on fucking point like that again.

>>382410264
The newest racing game was top notch so perhaps they should make more of them.

>>382415465
>>382415931
Dummies, physics engine doesn't equal realism. Physics can be tweaked and tuned to feel good for the player.

>>382415662
>Old school physics has so little to do with the declining quality
They figured out boost mechanics. They're tight as hell. But boost style Sonic is only so fun for so long. It's not versatile enough to allow the variety of gameplay required to keep boost gameplay fresh.

If the game has some nice ball physics, they could build SO much more interesting levels.

>>382416046
y...you're right

Theres never been a good Sonic game.

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>>382416046
>typing this much
what are you doing????

saved

>>382416276
Yeah, that's what I meant, it doesn't need to be realistic, it just gotta feel good.

>>382416249
>if you threw some shit like that in a modern Sonic game it'd turn a few heads and not in the positive way.
Yeah, sure, because OC characters, some furry fanfic for a story, a completely redesigned cast of characters in a game made for a goddamn cartoon doesn't.

I agree with you tho, devs don't design games like they used to, mostly because, they have a fanbase to cater to now, which is the main issue I think this franchise has.

>>382416046
Holy shit dude

>>382416046
But Adventure games themselves were brought down by gimmicks.
>All playstyles save for Sonic, Tails and maybe Knuckles in Adventure 1
>Chao garden (I know that people like it but it doesn't mesh with main gameplay well and would fare much better as a separate game)
>Tails/Robotnik in Adventure 2
>all the scripted "whoah" sequences like running from Orca
>gimmicky nonsensical story in Adventure 2
Heroes was a step in the right direction, too bad it was super-unpolished and brought down by forcing player to finish the game as 4 different teams that play exactly the same, and of course the team gimmick itself
>fucking straight-forward story
>focus on a single gameplay style through the whole game
>no gimmicks not tied to the main gameplay
Too bad Forces is a fucking mess.

>>382416732
>Heroes was a step in the right direction
I want to beat the shit out of you bro!

>>382410264
Sonic was never good.

>>382416046
>>382416120
>>382416127
>>382416303
>>382416352
>>382416679
Stop samefagging, you're being an embarrassment.

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>>382416793
idiot

>>382416769
Then perhaps you should switch to a brawny character :*

>>382416769
You're a subhuman piece of shit that's beneath me in every single way. I would break your teeth and beat you fucking senseless. Kill yourself you fucking nigger, you're lucky you're thousands of miles away from me else I'd simply just cut the talk and start beating that ass down

>>382416840
You've got some insane Paint hacking skills right there.

>>382410264
Because 3D Sonic doesn't work

>>382416732
>But Adventure games themselves were brought down by gimmicks.
>Heroes was a step in the right direction
I agree with both of these, thing is Heroes wasn't that great, and Sonic Adventure was received great, but it was mostly because of the transision to 3D. So I think this is just a huge miscommunication between the fanbase and the developers, they got no idea what people who arent Sonic fanboys want, and honestly, right now, they might not even care, at least talking about the BIG developers, because Sonic Mania I don't think counts towards future Sonic games, then again who knows.

>>382411769
3-8 dudes my fucking ass
It was a lot more than that
http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3#Production_Credits

>>382415931
>they weren't amazingly well crafted
Yes they fucking were
Sonic 3 and Knuckles was literally heavenly-made perfection

Kill yourself

>>382416046
Fuck off you cancerous Adventurecuck. Adventure 3 came out in 2006.

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>>382416046

>>382417352
fuck off, you know that's not true. It wasn't subtitled adventure, no Chao Garden, not the same format, clearly inferior. The Adventure games would be perfect if they cleaned up the bugs, and as it stands now there are barely any game breaking bugs. Those games are fucking perfect

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instead of improving SA2 (which was really good with some minor fixes needed), they scrapped it completely for BOOST MODE

which is literally just the game playing itself and is fucking awful.

"sonic didnt work in 3D" is a meme, SA / SA2 are good games. boost is shit but its easy to make.

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>>382410264
Hi.

>>382410264
Play Utopia as an example of the potential that Sonic has in 3d. Fucking amazing desu.

>>382417483
what that about that godawful camera system, the fixed views that you can't change and the scripted movements where if you touch anything you'll die.

I liked the Adventure series but that shit wasn't perfect, don't even pretend man

>>382417265
Don't take it the wrong way, they are great games. Thing is, they're not built around something stable, they didn't have a base for what they were doing, they just did what they already were doing, and did the best of it. I'm not saying they aren't great games, they are, but I don't think they made the game fitting for the kind of gameplay they were going for.

>>382417725
None of these things really made the game unplayable, if they fixed them then it would be a perfect game

>>382417725
none of these were that bad, and nothing was stopping sega from fixing them

instead they went to BOOST TO WIN, GAME PLAYS ITSELF and never looked back.

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>>382417752
>Thing is, they're not built around something stable, they didn't have a base for what they were doing,
Literally fuck off with this pseudo-intellectual jargon
You don't even know what you're talking about

>>382417782
>None of these things really made the game unplayable
Okay I never said unplayable though

you're the guy who's been throwing around the word perfect when we're talking about Sonic Adventure. So many conflicts arose when they brought Sonic into 3D and some of them still haven't been alleviated. That's all I'm saying.

>>382416769
exclamation marks make things so much more amusing

you can say the worst shit and it will still come off light hearted

>>382417483
It was so far up Adventure 1's ass that it practically was Adventure 3.

The Adventure games were mediocre at best. Bugs was the least of their problems(which were mostly in the 2nd-tier ports anyways and mostly in SA1DX)

>>382417876
I'm saying the merits of these games by and large make up for the flaws. They were EXCELLENT games. FUN. That's what I'm saying. I can't really think of many games that I liked more as a kid.

>>382417938
Get the fuck out, or do I need to beat your ass out??

>>382417938
>The Adventure games were mediocre at best.
No, Adventure 2 is the best Sonic has been in 3D. It just needed some minor fixes and you could pump out Sonic 3D game easily.

Instead we got stuck with BOOST

>>382415931
>and start focusing on momentum
So physics?

>>382417752
>Thing is, they're not built around something stable, they didn't have a base for what they were doing, they just did what they already were doing, and did the best of it
You're an idiot, Sonic was a response to Mario. Sonic 1 created the base and they built upon it with each iteration. Even when looking at something as weird as Chaotix, the base is still Sonic 1

>>382417847
You know you guys keep saying shit like this but I held X and the game was still going. I thought it was press X to win.

>>382417884
I will put my penis inside your tight little hole and move my hips until my testicles deposit every single sticky drop of semen inside you!

>>382417958
>They were EXCELLENT games
No they weren't
Playing as Knuckles/Rouge, Gamma/Robotnik/Tails Mech, Big the Cat, Amy etc. was not fun

And even the Sonic/Shadow levels weren't fun since they were just generic linear levels with homing attack chains everywhere, scripted loops and shitty scripted scenes(muh whale chase, muh G.U.N truck chase etc.)

The only thing excellent in the Adventure Games was the music

Because "gotta go fast" doesn't work to well when translated into 3D. It's kind of a problem they've been dealing with for a while now. Mario on the other hand, translated amazingly well.

The best they can do is 2.5D Sonic games. The 3D ones will always be... Not that great. They have that sort of on rails problem.

Also like someone else said, there's so many incarnations of Sonic (including the classic one) that if you make a game in one incarnation's style, you piss off everyone else who grew up with the other incarnation's style.

Personally I think they should ditch Boom Sonic and edgy Sonic and just go back to Classic sonic. Sonic can in no way be edgy anymore with anyone taking it seriously. Might as well go back to cute, short Sonic and have him save his animal friends from Eggman.

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>>382417991
>Adventurecuck is this mad

>>382418197
Shut the fuck up, 3 is coming

>>382418003
Adventure 1 was better than 2(better controls and level design) but even if say Adventure 2 is the best Sonic has ever been in 3D that's not saying much since Adventure 2 is still boring as fuck to play.

>>382418086
boost games are shit and dont let you interact with the environment at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbkgMW59--I

you can beat boost stages by literally doing nothing.

>>382418247
Adventure 2 really isn't "boring as fuck"

>>382418213
3 came.

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>>382418213
>3 is coming
It came out in 2006

>>382418247
adventure 2 is great. levels like metal harbor are better than anything in a boost game.

>>382418272
Agreed but he's right that 1 was better. At least for the Sonic/Tails/Knuckles stuff. The other three characters were kind of garbage.

>>382417862
>>382418025
I do know what I'm talking about tho, they didn't have a base, how could they have? platform games based around beating the levels quickly wasn't a thing back then, I did watch some interview were Yuji Naka said, that they were inspired by the feeling of wanting to beat Mario levels as fast as possible, and thus Sonic was created. But again, they didn't know how people were gonna react to this kind of gameplay, neither did they know how to implement it fully into a game, they just tried and it just turn out that it worked pretty well.

>>382418016
Yes, physics, I did say they didn't need a HUGE physics system, just momentum, I guess I didn't explain that fully.

>>382417958
>I'm saying the merits of these games by and large make up for the flaws.
Okay that's your opinion and I respect it. Some of the problems I mentioned made me really mad during my playthroughs of both Sonic Adventure games and made getting some of the emblems harder than they were supposed to be. It wasn't always the result of challenging gameplay but like inherently bad design and multiple things fucking me over at once. I was bad at vidya and got over it eventually but you get what I'm saying, right?

>>382418329
If they just took the best parts of 1 and 2 and polished the hell out of that thing, and had a big open world Mario 64-style where you enter the levels through the overworld... Massive Chao garden, etc. That game would sell out in a week. Make it moddable and voila, a masterpiece.

But Sega will be announcing Sonic Becomes A Firefighter next week anyway, what a fucking shame

>>382418272
It is for anyone that has a functioning brain. There's only so many times I can use the homing attack or run through a scripted sequence before I get tired of it.

Sonic just isn't fun in 3D. He clearly was made with 2D in mind originally(and pushed 2D platforming to it's limits). It's like Castlevania where it just doesn't feel right in 3D.

>>382410264
Consistency.

Old Sonic games have a formula that they stick to, and only add shit to play with within that formula.

As soon as sonic went 3d, every fucking new game had a different style of play. Every one feels different, because they never found that fun formula that they were looking for.

What they really need to do is reboot the 3d shit to directly translate from the old games. Understand momentum, platforming, and good fun design that plays off of those core components.

>>382418314
>adventure 2 is great
No it isn't


>levels like metal harbor are better than anything in a boost game.
That's not saying much even if it were true(which it's not since Seaside Hill Modern is far better)

>>382418471
>Man, this Mario game is so boring, there's only so many times I can jump on things before I get tired of it.

>>382418332
>platform games based around beating the levels quickly wasn't a thing back then
but you don't have to be fast in Sonic, it's your choice. You can do what you want also you keep talking about a base, but I'm not sure you're understanding how it's coming off. They knew what they wanted to do, it was their spin on platform games but with something fresh.

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>>382418471
adventure games are 100x less scripted than boost games.

the Adventure games were well received, sold well, and were abandoned for no reason (sonic team just became a giant clusterfuck from Sonic Heroes onwards and is now only capable of making braindead boost games)

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reminder that most who shit on adventure are boostfags but hate to have that pointed out.

>>382418596
It's insane how bad Heroes was compared to Adventure 2, and it's even more despicable how anyone can defend it

>>382418689
stop getting your feelings hurt then, we're here to talk about shit

if you don't like it then fuck off

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>>382418763
boostfag detected

>>382418593
Yeah, exactly, but they wanted to make that, a game were you beat the levels by going fast.
And yes, I fucked up in how I phrased that, so, let's just say the games from 1 to 3&K are damn perfect and that's it.

>>382418332
You clearly don't actually.
Naka originally wanted a faster Super Mario Bros.
Yasuhara convinced him to adopt a multi-tiered level design structure and set out to develop level design which suited the Sonic character(which lead to the loop-de-loops, springs, curved terrain etc. etc.)

If you'd check some of Yas' many sketches and concepts for Sonic 1/2/3K and/or watch shit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-3avMBqJ9s you'd realize just what a genius he is.

You're really underrating the fuck out of Sonic Team. I mean fuck sakes these guys had the balls to try and implement Time Travel in a platformer(Sonic CD did it and Sonic 2 coincidentally was originally also gonna be a time travel game in early development but the plans were scrapped)

They clearly designed levels that suited Sonic.

>>382418592
Jumping on things takes skill
Pushing the jump button twice doesn't. Idiot.

>>382418596
>adventure games are 100x less scripted than boost games.
They really don't


>the Adventure games were well received
So was Generations and Colors. Or are you gonna ignore those reviews when it doesn't suit you?

>>382419130
>he can only name two
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH

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>>382419130
colors has a 78% on metacritic

adventure 2 has a 90%

boostfags hate facts.

>>382419183
That's exactly the same amount of games the Adventure series does...oh wait...I forgot Sonic '06 my mistake.

>>382419252
dude, it's a moot argument, you're so obviously wrong it doesn't affect me in any way.

>>382410663
I pirated Generations and still felt cheated

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>>382419185
Lol
How about we see some up-to-date reviews of SA2?

>>382419360
>based on 8 critics

>>382419283
>being owned this hard

>>382419416
it's like saying Super Mario 3D Land was a sequel to Mario Galaxy.

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>>382419360
>up-to-date reviews

You mean by current game "reviewers"? The same people who shit on Ocarina of Time?

Adventure 2 was extremely well received and sold very well.

>>382419384
You can throw as many as you like that shit ain't reaching 89 like the Dreamcast version.

Back then these games were new so Critics were more forgiving of them.

>>382419532
>backpedaling this hard

>>382419360
>based on 8 critics
>xbox live
>"up to date" reviews

lol, the game was a big success.

>>382418596
Adventure games weren't abandoned. Shadow, Heroes and 06 all were at least partially based on Adventure gameplay. If both Shadow and 07 weren't universally hated by almost everyone then we'd get more adventure style-games. On the other hand Unleashed was considered OK-ish, and the main reason people disliked it was the werehog, which signalled to Sonic team that boostshit is the way to go.
I mean how can you blame Sonic Team? They've tried to recreate Adventure 3 times, which always resulted in failure, while by sticking to boost they were able to achieve at least a moderate success.

>>382419483
No you got owned when you made this retarded comment >>382419183

>>382419497
>You mean by current game "reviewers"? The same people who shit on Ocarina of Time?
Haahhahahahahah gamecube nint0ddler kiddie detected. Nobody shits on OoT anyways...critics sucked the 3DS remake's dick hard

>Adventure 2 sold very well.
It sold like shit on Dreamcast
It didn't sell well until it got ported to the Gamecube when millions of Gamecube kiddies like you got their first taste of Sonic

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>>382419532
>"up-to-date" reviews

boostfags really are this desperate

>>382410264
>Why are they COMPLETELY FUCKING UNABLE to make a modern Sonic game?
Because they're not willing to put the talent and effort needed into it, plus the people in charge don't understand Sonic.

>>382410663
>Generations was pretty good
Only goes to tell how low this franchise fell.

>>382419632
they didn't try to recreate Adventure, all of the games you mentioned are extremely different. if they made just a straight up new Adventure game with the best elements of both of them then it would be a massive success. 100%

>>382419557
Nobody is backpedaling
The XBLA port has 8 reviews while the Dreamcast has 18 which isn't that much more

Don't forget that the PS3 version has 6 reviews too

>>382419632
>They've tried to recreate Adventure 3 times

The issue is they made a bunch of bad, gimmicky games and took their shitty performance as a consumer response to the Adventure formula. So yes, I can blame Sonic Team for making bad games and not being aware it was because the games themselves were bad.

>>382419714
>Nobody shits on OoT

many people do, such as egoraptor who also hates adventure games. boostfags hate facts

>it didnt sell well, until it sold well!
boostfags hate facts

>>382419568
>>382419732
See this >>382419714 you retarded gamecube kiddies

Adventure 2 didn't sell shit on Dreamcast. It only became a success after it was ported to the Gamecube

>>382419759
That's exactly what they've tried to do with all three.
>>382419794
And if they've tried to do another Adventure game it would fail as well.

BRING BACK CHAO GARDEN
I WANT A CHAO GARDEN GAME AND I WANT IT NOW

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>>382419845
>the game wasnt a success even though it was a success!

Boostfags are this fucked in the head.

>>382419804
why are you yelling boostfags over and over again while talking about reviews, you know feelings that someone else has about a game but aren't necessarily objective? they're opinions.

you realize this kind of repetitive behaviori a really counterproductive thing, right? just stop being crazy for 5 seconds

>>382419889
>And if they've tried to do another Adventure game it would fail as well.

That's asinine. If they made a good game, then it would sell well regardless as to the particular formula they follow. Are you a genuine idiot? Like, one of those once in a lifetime idiots?

>>382419804
>egoraptor
Faggot Youtubers =/= Critics

>>382419889
just willfully ignorant at this point, how was Heroes even remotely like Adventure 1 and 2? the Adventure games have very similar gameplay elements, 2 is a straight sequel. it's not an Adventure game until you have things like Master Emerald hunts, Chao Gardens, etc

>>382419946
mad boostfag detected

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbkgMW59--I

So I left /a/ several years ago because I disliked their severe autism when talking about anime, and migrated to /v/ because I thought /v/ wasn't that autistic when talking about video games. This thread fully proves me wrong.

>>382419928
It only became a success because nint0ddlers were thirsty for a sonic game. And the only other games around that time for the Gamecube were Smash and Metroid Prime.

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>>382420024
>mad boostfag detected
ok

>>382419185
Both games are pretty meh.

>>382418272
They took the fun out of more than 2/3 of the game tough.

>>382419946
I keep replying to him and it's funny because I'm not even a boostfag
If anything I consider the Adventure games more playable than the boost games but they're still mediocre

>>382419948
Stop bahaving like a baby. It's not like they've tried to make bad games, they were just unable to make anything decent using that formula and if tried to do it again would fail again. How hard is it to understand?
>>382420010
Heroes was just Sonic gameplay, just with team gimmick on top. And neither Kluckles gameplay-style nor Chao Garden would save either of these.

>>382416046
>"sony"

>>382420038
It honesly was going pretty good. I guess we can let it die now.

>>382420010
>Master Emerald hunts
Nobody liked this shit you stupid kid
You need to be 18 to post here

>>382420148
>they were just unable to make anything decent using that formula

They were unable to make anything decent at all. I'm still pretty sure you're just an idiot.

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>>382420052
>t-the game was successful, but it doesnt count because i said so!

>>382420148
>Heroes was just Sonic gameplay, just with team gimmick on top.
Except the controls were horrible, the levels were completely one-track linear designs and they all last 10+ minutes.

>>382420148
They didn't use the formula for any of those games you dumb shit

>>382420201
It flopped in the dreamcast lmao
And if were wanna talk success than Heroes sold 5 million copies

>>382420191
>I'm still pretty sure you're just an idiot.
Wow, stop being so mad. It's not my fault that the gameplay got stale and there was nothing anyone could do to save it.

Alright, goodnight everyone.
Literally everything I posted in this thread tonight was bait.

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This Really Makes me Think.

>>382420432
Ah, the good ol "I was only pretending to be retarded".

Good job friend.

>>382413467
Adventure unironically got it best. There were the fast stages with Sonic and Shadow, but there were slower shooting ones, and large, open treasure hunt stages as well to break it up. Maybe they don't have to be that exact formula because it's debatable how much people in the community like those stages, but they have this fuckhuge cast they expanded for over a decade, why not utilize each character for their own gameplay style?

>>382420492
I seriously hope that anyone who thinks that either boost or adventure is better than 2D Sonic is pretending to be retarded.
>>382420470
If anything goes well then Mania will sell well, outscore Forces and make Sega invest in a high-budget sequel.

>>382418269
>Green Hill

Ok now do that on Rooftop Run, Crisis City, and Planet Wisp.

>>382420695
>why not utilize each character for their own gameplay style?
Because you stretch your resources thin and risk people hating a big chunks of your game. People loathed Tails/Robotnik in Adventure 2 and outright despised Big in 1. I personally didn't mind mecha-gameplay but hated Knuckles, since everything felt so slow.

Because classic Sonic was a platforming game with good level design. There was no save, but every time you played the game you didn't take the same paths and find small secret.

When video game company became big corporate things, marketing department and top level management took decision instead of game designer, it changed. They thought Sonic was only about "gotta go fast". So they made Sonic games with only purpose to go fast and everything else was shit.

>>382420695
Nobody wants to search for emeralds, shoot shit or fish on a Sonic game. The speed stages were shit too.
Fuck off you cancerous Adventurecuck

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Said it before, and I'll say it again.

Much like Batman Arkham Asylum, it inadvertently killed the genre of open world fighting games, by creating the 'utlimate' cinematic fighting engine, spam x to win, looks good, is terrible at being a good videogame, though. Sonic Unleashed modern boost gameplay looks good, really fucking good, with one of the greatest OSTs in any video game ever, game is made by fans hired by sega, a pure passion project. Everything in Unleashed was made with heart [yeah, I know, werehog, just a fucking terrible gripe in a amazing game] People really need to go read up on the development of Unleashed, it's basically the Mania version of Sonic, but a 3d sonic game, Sega hired new blood after the fucking travesty which was 06 and we got a actual competent game, plagued by a werehog.

HOWEVER

boost gameplay should of stayed/died in unleashed, instead, it's fucking plagued it's way into Forces and looks like the lead force to drive it forward, and if Sonic is based on boost, it'll never truly progress. but god damn was unleashed a work of art

>>382420825
>There was no save
3K did have a save file system. So did Sonic CD

I feel like Sonic 06 could be fixed with just some good spot-check modding, cut out the stupid hub quests, tidy up some of the object bloat, change the value on some AI behaviors, that type of thing.


The only huge issues are the camera and the rampant zero-floor glitches. I think the former could be fixed with some dedication and the latter could atleast be curtailed.

I feel like it really needs a Director's Cut. Could you imagine if they re-released it instead of a new game, but actually fixed all the problems. People would not know what to say.

>>382420834
Adventure was made with heart too(they traveled to South America for inspiration) the game still sucked.

Boost was introduced by Dimps in Sonic Rush btw.

>>382420991
Get out.

>Thinking "retro" means "old".
Kill yourself, you fucking cunt.

I feel warm inside knowing that I share this board with people that feel so strongly about Sonic. Thank you, guys.
>inb4 gay puns about feeling warm inside
No thank you.

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>>382420834
IT ALL FUCKING BEGAN WITH ADVENTURE AND THE HOMING ATTACK BULLSHIT, THIS WAS THE POINT WHEN SONIC WENT STRAIGHT TO FUCKING HELL.
IN OLD GAMES THE ONLY TIMES WHEN THE CONTROL WAS WRESTLED FROM THE PLAYER WAS WHEN HE HIT SOME SPECIFIC SCENERY ELEMENTS LIKE BOOSTERS AND IT WAS FOR A SHORT TIME. AND IT WAS GOOD.
BUT NOOOO, ADVENTURE HAD TO GO CINEMATIC AND INTRODUCE "PRESS X TO WIN" TO THE SONIC SERIES.
IN THE FUCKING 90'S WHEN THIS SHIT WASN'T SO WIDESPREAD IN GAMING.
IN FACT ADVENTURE INTRODUCED MULTIPLE OF THE MOST CANCEROUS GAMING BULLSHIT TO THE SONIC SERIES
>VOICED CINEMATICS?
CHECK!
>RETARDED DRAMA OVER GAMEPLAY
CHECK!!
>FUCKING BULLSHIT DRAMA STORYLINE
CHECK!!!
>FUCKING GIMMICKY BULLSHIT
CHECK!!!!
>CINEMATIC GAMEPLAY, THAT FOCUSES MORE ON LOOKING GOOD THAN PLAYING WELL?
CHECK!!!!!
>AUTISM?
CHECK!!!!!!
>FUCKING LIFESIM, OR WHATEVER CRAPTRAP
CHECK!!!!!!!

YES, I AM MAD

>>382421191
That is quite literally the meaning of retro, like you can't get more literal than that you fucking nigger.

>>382421057

>Boostfag

>>382421271
That is fucking wrong.
>Retro (Adjective): imitative of a style or fashion from the recent past.
Retro basically means something new created to imitate the style of something old.
It doesn't mean old, it means something that is designed to imitate something old, you fucking illiterate triple mongoloid.

Flying Battery Zone had some great music.

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>>382421442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyXg9kAp4Vc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDFaRMmWbKo

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>>382421583

Sonics 1-3 were revolutionary and innovated and succeeded. They were loyal to the fans AND proved commercially successful.

SEGA made a mistake not trying IP's an so settling for continually failing rehashes

>>382421417
How about you go check the etymology of retro, come back, get on your knees, and suck my fucking cock until I blow my load on your fucking face

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>>382421689

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>>382421237
SONIC NEVER DESERVED ANY OF THIS FUCKING SHIT. IT WAS SO TIGHT, SO WELL DONE, IT WAS NEVER FAIR TO SHIT ON A GREAT FRANCHISE WITH ALL THE MODER NU-MALE BULLSHIT.
JUST LOOK AT FUCKING ROBOTNIK. HE SHOWED UP EVERY SECOND LEVEL, MAINTAINING GREAT PRESENCE THROUGH THE WHOLE GAME. UNLIKE MANY OTHER BOSSES THAT NEVER SHOW-UP UNTIL THE END OF THE FUCKING GAME, MAKING YOU WONDER WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY EVEN DOING. AND EACH TIME HE SHOWED UP HE HAD A NEW CLEVER MACHINE. THAT WELL HE STAYED FRESH DESPITE BEING SO PROMINENTLY FEATURED. TO THIS DAY ALMOST NO OTHER GAME GOT THAT SINGLE FUCKING THING RIGHT. AFTER 20 FUCKING YEARS OF THE EVOLUTION OF GAMING. BOSSES ARE EITHER JUST NOT THERE OR APPEAR MULTIPLE TIMES, BUT BARELY ANYTHING CHANGES EACH TIME THEY APPEAR.
AND BUILDING UPON SOMETHING SO GREAT WHAT DID SONIC TEAM RELEASE? GARBOTHA (CROSS BETWEEN GARBAGE AND GOLGOTHA)
FUCKING USELESS, MODERN, SHITTY GARBOTHAAAAAA!

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>>382421802

>>382421583
TOO MUCH FUCKING TEXT, IS THIS A SONIC COMIC OR FUCKING CRIME AND PUNISHMENT 4: GUNS OF THE BOLSHEVIKS

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Sonic Adventure is a masterpiece in every aspect from story to graphics and gameplay.

and i played it on the dreamcast.

the best part about it was exploring the city and jungle, and how it's completely different to each character with different hidden areas and such.

Used to love hunting the collectible emblems, not sure what they were for though..

oh and the chaos garden is just lovely, it's like one of the best comfy areas in vidya, especially the jungle and eggman's beach.

the only game that competes with SA's comfy levels is Oblivion.

>>382422352
THE ONLY COMFY AREA YOU SHOULD BE HEADING TO IS A GAS CHAMBER

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why are classicfans so autistic? going on about their shit no one cares about like busy level-design and physics that should mostly just work at best

>>382410264
Because classic Sonic was a regular platformer with very little emphasis on FAST. Most of the time, Sonic played slower than 2D Mario.

Nowadays Sonic took the fast meme to heart and turned into a rollercoaster sim

>>382421927
>>382421237
Calm down dude. Its just a videogame

>>382420470
nostalgia bias is a hell of a drug

>>382422627
IT'S FUCKING EVERYTHING WRONG ABOUT MODERN GAMING TIGHTLY PACKED INTO ONE GAME.

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>>382422046

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>>382423282

>>382423282
WHO THE FUCK IS SONIA

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>>382423340

>>382423467
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Underground

>>382423467
sanic's sister

>>382423706
>>382423572
Why would someone even do that?

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>>382423572

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>>382417498
>get SA2 on steam
>awww yeah im 11 years old all over again
>pick dark side because fuck yeah shadow and being evil
>first 6 levels im on a gay fucking mech shooting other robots with one shadow level in between

>>382424464
Shadow has the least amount of levels out of any character in the game.

>>382424464

Also terrible bosses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgG--74XExY

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>>382420347
The Dreamcast itself was a flop.

Most people who complain about Sonic never actually play the games.

so, typical /v/

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>>382424096

>>382410769
Sonic Mania is hardly a new game. seems more like a "greatest hits" of Sonic rather than a new experience. as opposed to something like Megaman 9 which copied the classic games style and mechanics to a T but still made a fresh new game out of it

I guess it depends how many completely new levels are in Mania. if it's 8 new levels thats all I ask. i'm not really looking forward to playing level edits of zones I already played.

>>382410264
they need to get H. Yasuhara back to make levels. Sonic Mania looks like it gots the movement and style down but the level designs look like a mess.

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>>382424805

>>382425105

While I understand your concerns I feel this opinion is really overblown.

Act 2s of every old level will be completely new things from what they have shown so far, so even if there is something like 10 old levels in the game that is still 10 original new acts with new mechanics and level design so at the end it doesn't really matter. There should be a solid 16-20+ acts of completely new stuff.

Even the Act 1s are different enough too, haven't you seen the map for GHZ1?

>>382425105
>Sonic Mania is hardly a new game. seems more like a "greatest hits" of Sonic rather than a new experience
There's still going to be a good chunk of entirely new levels, and all of the returning levels are not the same at all. They might as well be homage stages with how much they got remixed. Look at all the shit they added to Chemical Plant, there are entire new gameplay concepts that were never there before as well as the level design being totally different.

Sonic Unleashed was pure kino, a masterpiece. I don't care what anyone says. It's like the Sonic 3K of 3D Sonic.

>>382425105
>Sonic Mania is hardly a new game
First act of classic levels are similar to the original versions but the rest is brand new.

>>382425342
its sad because every boost game after unleashed has been worse, somehow

and somehow unleashed has the best lighting and graphics out of all the boost games

and unleashed actually had 3D platforming segments

it got shit on for werehog but the other stuff was good

>release a 2d Mario-Maker-style Sonic game
>give it HD versions of pretty much all the assets of the classic 2d sonic games
>let the autistic fan base create levels until their hearts are content

There. I just saved the series.

>>382425858
While a Sonic Maker would be really cool, they kinda in a way already did this with the Steam Genesis Collection and romhack support.

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>>382425190

>>382426139
Keep posting I am somewhat invested in this.

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>>382427268

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>>382428520

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>>382428634

I swear there must've been 3D platformers already that have the equivalent of spindashing into slopes to reach floating platforms and shit.

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>>382428713

>>382428721
Pac Man World.

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>>382428809

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>>382428883

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYMenKEwpps
/thread

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I've never even played Adventure/Adventure 2, but I just wanted to say that this cutscene is hype as fuck. Adventurefags have some shit going for them, even if I'm a classicfag.
https://youtu.be/MTdrLC3nqhw

>>382430302
I can already sense the autism

>>382430302
fuck off e-celeb cocksucker

>>382428967
Keep uploading please