"Fighting games aren't more popular because they are

>>382335848
Tldr normies don't like difficult Games and having to remember combos

>>382335848
People are scrubs and don't like dedicating a lot hours to a videogame

>>382335960
Not even just casuals, but people here too.

>60 dollars for a game that only has one mode ever worth using

>>382335848
this is the exact reason. no one wants to grind combos and remember frames all fucking day. Well, except the most autistic of people.

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Fighting games as a genre have a notoriously high barrier of entry. There's terminology to learn, basic controls, understanding what can be done when, training your reactions and building the execution. And that's before you get into fighting other players, where there's no one else to blame for what happened aside from yourself.

Gitting gud at fighting games requires more dedication than a lot of other genres, because there's just so much to keep an eye out for and things to learn. For someone completely new to the genre, the hurdle is massive.

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>>382336086
that applies to almost every game you retard

>>382336021
You clearly didn't read the OP. Why don't those casuals just beat other casuals who don't dedicate hours to a video game? The ranking systems online fighting games have should help those casuals find each other. Unless everyone playing is fkn hardcore and trains hours every day... but it becomes a circular argument. There aren't any casuals because there aren't any casuals to play against.

Because playing it at a level beyond flailing around and buttonmashing requires a lot of hard work.

It's a genre with a very clear skill floor, it's the same with RTS.

This is the greatest weakness of both genres, but also their greatest strength because it allows them an insane amount of mechanical depth.

>>382335848
All fighting games are the same to me, I played a lot of mortal Kombat as a kid so I do pretty good in that, I played injustice for the story and got into street fighter 4/5 because my friend wanted me too,it's all the same shit. It's not really worth buying a new one when I can just play a different one

>>382336707
Mortal Kombat is not nearly the same shit as street fighter

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Because most people don't want to hang out with people like LOW

casuals ruin everything

>>382336234
>There's terminology to learn, basic controls, understanding what can be done when, training your reactions and building the execution.

Applies to almost any game though.

>And that's before you get into fighting other players, where there's no one else to blame for what happened aside from yourself.

This sounds more like a proper reason, if you are referring to the fact that there is no team to share the burden of losing (like in many other multiplayer games) and you lose as an individual.

>Gitting gud at fighting games requires more dedication than a lot of other genres

Where do people get their idea of what counts as "gud"? Is there something about fighting games that makes people set a high standard for themselves for some reason?

>>382336458
I don't find fighting games fun to play casually. There's a baseline level of knowledge that's needed in order to play the game, understand what you're doing, and learn from how you're playing. Buttonmashing with people who are also buttonmashing isn't enjoyable.

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>>382335848
Its more like:

Fighting games aren't more popular because until you hit a certain level, you get ZERO FUN, ABSOLUTELY NO FUN.

Nobody ever goes easy on people even when they are starting, and when the skillgap is so big you literally can't do shit.

>>382336769
They are different but to me they aren't different enough, same thing with racing games unless it's mario Kart or something

>>382336914
The execution floor is high, anon. Properly executing a combo in a fighter while under the stress of a 1v1 match requires you to hammer that shit into your muscle memory. Compare that to a game like LoL where you not only have teammates to blame if you fuck up, but where firing a skill off is as simple as hitting Q.

Doing anything cool that doesn't look retarded in a fighter takes effort.

>>382336525

Literally all they have to do is make episodes around each character that requires you to master the fundamentals of each, including matchups.
But apparently THREE YEARS is worth just 1 minute per character with nothing else outside a versus match but the odd gimmick and cutscenes.

Most of the effort goes into balance, sure, but fighting game developers are ridiculously slow compared to other competitive genres for rate of development.

So without that, you have to look up frame data tables and sit in practice for EACH character, just effectively mashing+ till muscle memory figures it out, making it take a very long time to get in.
And considering this is more than half of figuring out what the OTHER player can do by learning the moves yourself even if you don't want to play those characters/their movesets are weird as fuck (stances etc.) it goes beyond frustrating for many.

And then you get shitty multiplayer options, jesus fuck it's 2017 guys, get your shit working.

>>382336951
Its like a puzzle game that requires you like 40+ hours just to solve the first puzzle.

For people autistic enough to do that, they'll get to have fun and continue to have fun by then, but if you're not invested enough to spend 40 hours having no fun, then its shit, literally shit.

>>382335960
>implying combos is the hard part

fast rock paper scissors is too hard for casuals

unlike a lot of games fighting games take actual, legitimate work to get good at and people don't like to work. especially in a game.

>>382335848

Because the casual gamer doesn't understand strategy or tactics in fighting games. They don't understand "if he jumps, I can press this button to hit him out of the air with X move and beat him". They just think "Wow this move looks cool"

>>382337256
people play games to have fun, if you want to work at playing games then your life must not be too interesting I guess.

if you're not having fun playing a game, then what is the point?

>>382335848

It's not about losing to someone better

It's how much effort you have to put in before you can even "play" the game

Any gamer who's played games for a few years can grasp a Q+W combo in a MOBA game within the first hour of playing, even if they're not buying the right items for their hero or getting all the last hits on minions

A beginner in a fighting game can't even make his character move in a staight line when he wants to or jump forward when he wants to consistently, in the first hour.

Not to mention in most other genres you have a lot of "downtime" where you're kind of on your own doing your own thing while still "playing" the game. In a fighting game, your only downtime is alone in the Training room. If you're in any other sitsution, whether it's against real players or computers, you're constantly getting your ass beat as a new player in a fighting game, nonstop every 60 seconds. That's discouraging to someone trying to learn while "playing"

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>>382336040
>Not even just casuals, but people here too.

i'm not seeing the difference here.

>>382337352
work and fun aren't mutually exclusive. the fun in fighting games comes from learning, applying that knowledge you worked for and outplaying the opponent when you win. obviously if you aren't have fun learning and playing a fighting game then the genre isn't for you.

>>382335848
>It's not the game you just suck

And people wonder why fighting games are a dying genre.

>>382337117
Yeah that stuff should be in the game, but it wouldn't cut down the time needed to improve that much since you'd still need to develop that muscle memory and game knowledge, whether in practice mode or a tutorial mode.

>>382336951
This. Dicking around in overwatch can be fun even as a bronze. At a low level, fighting games feel like your character's a tank and you have to read the manual and spend hours of practice before you can do anything fun.

>>382337571
the fun in fighting games don't come from learning, learning is shit because you you only die while learning, you maybe don't understand that because theres a long time since you started playing them.

but for someone starting now from zero its HORRIBLY BAD learning, most of the times you have no time to even apply basic shit you learn because no one goes easy on people starting out.

>>382337702
meant "read the manual" figuratively

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>>382337776
This.

Lol @ learning is fun.

Plebs starting to play fighting games get blown the fuck out by perfects all the time, whats the fun in that? You couldn't even do ANYTHING, how is that fun? Are you actually retarded?

Lmao.

>>382335960
The combos are the easy part, it's reacting quickly enough to block so you get a chance to use your combos. When the other guy is a 20+ year vet who won't stop for one millisecond with his punches and gets a triple perfect it's pretty hard to find the game fun.

>>382337571

Learning and improving in a fighting game is amazing. The first time you start doing anti air consistently against low tier Ken's is the kind of high you won't feel in many other games. The first time you string together a basic combo into Super against a real opponent feels like you just fucking won EVO.

But getting to that basic level right there itself takes losses after losses. And to step into the next level is even more training and losses.

It just takes too long for learning to give you positive feedbacks in fighting games. In other genre, the positive reinforcement is almost immediate

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>>382336458
>The ranking systems online fighting games have should help those casuals find each other
People get better at different rates.
Someone just starting out can pick up the game relatively quickly, learn a base combo and a decent hit confirm and completely decimate everyone at their supposed skill level in a matter of hours. Before long they're a high rank.
On the other hand, someone could spend weeks doing nothing but buttonmashing, and never get better. Their skill level still goes up, nowhere near as fast, but it still goes up, same goes for their rank.
The problem is that for someone at a low level, they believe winning to be a huge deal instead of playing and learning.
At low levels, it should be about learning against their opponent, getting better and not even winning, just having a decent fight. By bettering yourself, you enjoy yourself.
However, instead, casuals will do none of those things, get their ass handed to them, and chimp out about the opponent not being fair and look for an excuse to quit the game.
Tekken 7 has been pretty good with this - even if you lose, you get a fair amount of fight money, and you can ask for a revenge match against the same person.
But yes, it's the low-level's obsession with winning that gives it such a small playerbase. That's a problem with the player, not the game, since this player will likely do the same for another genre such as FPS or RTS if they are not good at it to begin with.

>>382338086
Same for both fighting games and RTS for this too, they're really similar genres.

It's the exact same with say SC2. Once you get over that learning process hill, you're never going to quit.

>>382335848

It means they aren't more popular because the average consumer isn't interested in spending hours upon hours mastering the game just to have fun online.

As with all games, competitive ruined it.

>>382337776
>the fun in fighting games don't come from learning

you will never improve if you keep this mindset. i agree that fighting games need better in-game tutorials and resources for new players to reduce the headache of starting from zero and learning the game but even with the best in-game tutorial, in-game frame date, sample combos, punish guides etc a new player will lost A LOT at first. there is no way around this without completely gutting the complexity and competitive integrity of the game.

even SFV, which is the easiest to learn SF to date, still has a fairly high skill ceiling. playing with other players around your skill level or long sets with someone better that is willing to give tips is the best way to learn.

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>play GG for years
>decide to try ranked
>run into unranked Jam using Stylish mode
>destroy them
>feel bad

I hope they didn't get discouraged because of me.

>>382338110
That's why MMR systems fucking exist. If it's tuned correctly than those who excel will quickly outrank those progressing at a normal place.

Feel free to keep blaming the players though. Fighting games are absolutely perfect even though no other genre has these problems.

>>382338519
Good job asshole, you just caused that guy to quit the genre forever.

I hope you're proud of yourself.

j/k, ggs that was me

>>382337286

Actually there is a big gap between normie and people who play fighting games more than other genres.
And they get turned away when "this button" does do anti-air, okay, you told me that, that makes perfect sense.
But you change to this character and what the fuck is that move, why isn't it an anti-air?

This happens way too often in fighting games, where the control scheme is the same but the results you get from each input are vastly different to the point of confusing for the sake of it.

This is why Smash is massively more popular, cos every up+b is a recovery move. Of course Smash also throws not just the bath, baby, water, kitchen and kitchen sink out the window, it also throws the sofa and the window frame out too for the sake of "pArTy" according to Sakurai, so it doesn't work for most players either.

They're fine it's just that we don't get many like Power Stone or Smash Brothers any more. They're all the same.

I feel like the people who complain about having to learn shit before they can play have only watched high-level play and combo vids. I've been playing Injustice 2 and I'm a retard at fighting games. However everyone else in ranked is retarded as well, so it's just been mashing shit and trying shit and seeing what works. And then I learned my opponent's habits and learned how to counter them. And then I learned a couple of neat combos to do while punishing them. Shit's not hard at all to get into and people need to stop psyching themselves out and/or worry about their wnl

>>382338554
fighting games aren't perfect, a lot of QoL stuff can be implemented to improve new player experience. In game frame data. In game character tutorials. In game execution and movement and concept guides (how to anti air, back dash, basic footsies, etc). Take Tekken for example. There is shit in the game that is pretty important to know as newbie that is not mentioned ANYWHERE except online forums. A lot of that stuff needs to be in the game.

Proper fucking netcode and matchmaking is #1 priority as well.

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>>382338301
>i agree that fighting games need better in-game tutorials and resources for new players to reduce the headache of starting from zero and learning the game
If every game had general tutorials like ArcSys games (BlazBlue, P4A, Guilty Gear) that go from basics of movement to different kinds of wakeup and punishes, AND a character tutorial system like DoA where it gives you command/combo and you have to perform it to pass, with a reward at the end (announcer voice), then there will be a lot more players coming into the game with more understanding and since they invested some time, they'll be more likely to invest more time.
Skullgirls was alright, actually.

>Fighting games are absolutely perfect even though no other genre has these problems
no other genre is pure 1-on-1 with a requirement for both knowledge and execution.
Fighting games are difficult, and there isn't anyone else to blame for your failure.

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>>382338882
Xrd has a fantastic tutorial with stuff like that, but I think showing a newbie a frame data chart would scare them off instantly.

>>382339080
you dont have to throw it at them. when they are ready to look at it the resource should be there.

>>382338914
second paragraph was for
>>382338554
sorry

>>382335848
It's zero sum genre with niche audience which means userbase constantly erodes from lower end. So noobs are placed in front of learning cliff because everyone left is already significantly better then them.

>>382338914
>no other genre is pure 1-on-1 with a requirement for both knowledge and execution.

This is what fighting game faggots actually believe.

>>382335848
I don't play fighting games because the games and their community are sexist as hell and proud of it.

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>>382335848
>Whatever reason you give for why a fighting game is difficult it should apply to your opponent as well. Unless he is better than you. But then it's your opponent that's difficult, not the game

You underestimate how retarded normalfags are

>>382338086
You won't find it in games, but you find it in other accomplishments. The problem is that with all the skill and the huge time investment, I just realize I'm wasting dozens of hours on a meaningless skill. Games are fun nowm but fighting games are fun eventually. If I have to invest time, I'd rather invest it in a real skill.

The best thing about my time in SFIV was that it's what got me to finally start learning Japanese. Being able to successfully navigate suruga-ya without having to use chrome to translate the page felt way better than fighting game victories with less time investment. And the skill is actually valuable.

>>382339474
>physically incapable of performing the inputs

lmao brolylegs uses his fucking tongue to play a high execution character. kids these days man.

>>382339421
name one (1) (I) other genre in which that is the case and I'll concede my point.

>>382339441
It's probably the most merit-centric community of all videogames.

breaking news: most people don't want to spend hours reading guides and watching ecelebs explain shit and practicing hours before they can even beat anyone

and I play fighting games a lot. just common sense

>>382339632
Broodwar.

Fighting games are no fun when you're a scrub and in order to become a non-scrub you have to put in hundreds of hours practicing combos and whatnot. The wall of movements you have to memorize is also a piece of shit. Network and netcode problems make online play terrible.

Fighting games will never ever be popular again.

>>382335848

It might be fair if both players are shit, but the fights won't look fun if both don't know what to do.

>>382339632
RTS

Some yt guy I forgot explained it well:
It's not that they're hard by the principle because you can beat CPU by spamming crouch kick.
It's hard and time consuming to get to the level at which you have enough knowledge and skill to fully understand a match and take full pleasure from it.

I'd also add that they seem really shallow to someone unfamiliar and then they get overwhelmed with how deep they are so they lose motivation.

>>382339667
This, fighting games require a lot of time and unlike most games popular with casuals gradification isn't immediate. Because the genre is so skill based and competitive it's very normal to get shat on your first time playing people who actually know what they're doing. So the normie needs to practice. But the normie has a 40 hour a week job, a significant other, and responsibilities outside of video games that restrict how much time they are willing, not even able, to dedicate to that pursuit.

>>382339632
Quake duels

>>382339718
>ask for a genre
>get not just a game, but an expansion of a game

>>382339775
you don't need to perform frame perfect inputs in an RTS, and being a second or two late on one of your actions won't instantly cost you the game.

>>382339728
the worst point of fighting games is when you're too shit to do well against strangers, but if you play your friends you just blow them the fuck out.

>>382339441
sexist lol

when that tekken champion is a cutiepie

you must be a fatty smelly vagina

This guy does really good analyses of fighting game concepts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrIR_jlLno

>>382339982
The bad thing is that you're not having fun until you're good, and why play if you're not having fun? So many people just give up and never get to break that barrier.

>>382339632
Competitive puzzle games like bubble bobble. Chess and other similar board games. RTS and possibly FPS depending on how strict you are with "pure" 1v1.

>>382340013
>the worst point of fighting games is when you're too shit to do well against strangers, but if you play your friends you just blow them the fuck out.

Exactly. This "ranking" problem also put away many players. I see no future for fighting games besides becoming a niche genre such as grand strategy games.

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The real reason is that you cant blame someone else for your losses. MOBAs require massive amounts of time to be decent at and theyre popular as fuck, but when you lose theres 4 other people you can point your finger at.

>>382337985
this is the correct answer.

>>382340013
>and being a second or two late on one of your actions won't instantly cost you the game.
What? It very easily could. Not only that, but you're moving the goal posts pretty blatantly there.

>>382340013
You actually do need to perform frame perfect inputs at the highest levels of play, however unlike fighting games RTS actually has some leeway where new players won't instantly lose a casual match for making a single split second error.

I wouldn't expect you tom know that though.

>>382339080
ArkSys is good at tutorials. BBCF's is pretty nice too

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>>382339474

I have ARMS and Tekken, Tekken being my first real fighting game. I really don't see where people get so upset at traditional fighting games. You spend maybe 30-40 mins in training mode, getting through your move list until you find a dozen or so good strings that you can remember. Hit treasure battle for a bit and practice doing it against an opponent. Head back to training mode again to work out a few janky combos, and then head online to Player battle to practice. It definitely takes a little time, and that's just scratching the surface with ONE character, but isn't that the point of a fighting game; a complex game where only the most dedicated and talented can rise to the top? That should be the appeal, in my mind. To think "Wow, I know I'm new at this, but I made it to green ranks!" and then from there, "Wow, I finally made it to Warrior!" and so on. You get a real sense that YOU are improving. You aren't leveling up. You aren't getting carried by team-mates. You aren't paying to win. You are practicing, you are improving, and you are advancing.

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Fighting games aren't super popular because of a number of reasons
1: Kicking a CPUs ass isn't satisfying. Winning is mostly only satisfying if it's against a human and if you do some cool shit. Both of which require alot of practice
2:Arcades are dead
3:Most of them have terrible tutorials or none at all. The fact that fucking Tekken 7 shipped without a tutorial while GG and KI both have shown how to do a proper tutorial is absolutely ridiculous.
4:Too many of the fighters nowadays have too many humans. A casual can look at Darkstalkers or KI and get interested just based off of the fact that it's a Raptor fighting a Ghost Girl. Watching a guy in a Gi fight a guy in a different colored Gi isn't interesting.

>>382339982
>the normie
>a person who doesn't want to spend 200 hours on training mode like a faggot to learn how to play a videogame

Keep saying NORMIES REEEEEEE all you want and see your dying genre fade away into oblivion.

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>"Hey, man. I think I'm getting the hang of this game!"
>"Cool, wanna play a round?"
>"Sure."
>Get perfected.
>"I'm confused, what happened?"
>"LMAOOOOOO DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT THE FRAME DATA LMAOOOOO?"
>"Don't you know that Rigzoggu's 241 LPHP meme train mambo slambo is actually +5 on block, and if you block that he was crouch-cancel super jump backdash cancel in to a Banana Slamma that counter hits for 5k, and that Mambo Slambo is pretty much better than every move your character has when you're on defense because [COMPANY] can't balance for shit? You DID read the frame data, right?"
>"Uh, no, that's autistic"
>"HAH! GOT EEM!"
Fighting games general

They're fun but incredibly autistic

>>382340116
That's not my mindset, that's the mindset of the vast majority of casual players I know. They'll play arcade for a week, maybe a few ranked matches, but immediately quit because they don't want to spend time to learn to play. Like I said, many people just have better things they'd like to do. That's why Fifa and Just Dance are so popular, they're easy to pick up and play.

>>382340240
>new players won't instantly lose a casual match for making a single split second error

Babby level sc2, terran player doesn't scan ahead before moving his marines onto creep, all of them get blown up by baneling mines because it's wood league.

>>382335848
the amount of effort I have to invest before I'm no longer unhappy with the results I get is too big

>>382340223
Because MOBA matches last 40-50min on average and you're given leeway to make mistakes. They also have such a large community (being free to play) that you're guaranteed to ALWAYS play with someone roughly at your level of skill.

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>>382336458
But we do. I have been playing Tekken for 20 Years, 10 of those online and this is the best i can manage as a rank online. Being a scrub wont stop me playing my favorite fighting game series. I like it.

>>382335960
Worse, normies don't like realizing they are not skilled at something. That's why team games are more popular. If a normie plays a fighting game, they'll blame the game, they'll call the winner a no-life tryhard and will say anything needed to imply they are the superior party.

All in all, you need to be humble to play a 1v1 competitive game, and most people aren't.

>>382340261
>isn't that the point of a fighting game; a complex game where only the most dedicated and talented can rise to the top? That should be the appeal, in my mind.
That's why most of them dislike fighting games and want the creators to dumb their series down. Because they aren't talented or dedicated but still want the same gratification that talented/dedicated people get. Incidentally this is also the issue with modern feminist/equality arguments. They want the benefits of hard work but without the hard work, because to them, having to exist, itself, is a great challenge.

>>382340420
>>382340508

>>382340223
You're forgetting an obvious point:
Games are more fun with friends. With MOBA's you can have four dudes with you all being fucking morons.
You get more than 5 per match.

With Fighting games it's 2 max unless you take turns

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>>382340508
>If a normie plays a fighting game, they'll blame the game, they'll call the winner a no-life tryhard and will say anything needed to imply they are the superior party

This. There is an entire thread full of cry babies complaining about "cheap" on /v/ right now.

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>>382340327
>get btfo by a move you didn't know
>now you know, nigga
>don't get tricked by it again
we call that learning

>>382335848
took me like 8 hours to get Kazumi's most basic combo down in Tekken 7 and even then I can only pull off the ender (bf2, 1, 1+2) like 50% of the time

There's other genres that allow me to play all the mindgames of fighting games without having to struggle with the input.

Also I prefer a smaller cast of archetypes with customizations over a large roster of premade characters, but that's just personal preference.

>>382340553
That also counts, but I don't think it's the main issue. Of course you have those scrubs who blame all team members but themselves when they lose, but all things considered it isn't relevant. MOBAs make you farm creeps, deny creeps, zone enemy heroes, destroy towers, ambush other heroes through cunning and have big 5v5 battles. It's more varied and requires less autism when beginning. They're fun to those who have just started and to those who put in the hours.

Fighting games are just no fun unless you have 200+ hours.

>>382337678
>dying

lmao ok

there's been like 3 or 4 major fighting game releases this year alone faggot

>>382340450
not to make you feel bad but I've never played a tekken in my life and I made brawler in a week

you should really do some more efficient training and learning if you've been playing for that long and genuinely want to improve

>>382340302
>3:Most of them have terrible tutorials
Honestly I am sick of people asking for them, they do nothing for a game having lasting popularity

GG, had one is dead
KI, had one is dead
Arms, had one is dead
Injustice 2, has some stuff but is less popular than two games below

SFV, didn't launch with one and still barely has anything now but is alive (even after the other blunders)
T7, didn't have one and is very popular

And if we go further back SF4 revived fighting games without one. Tutorial does nothing for a fighting games popularity especially lasting, because fighting games are all about learning and finding info on yourself so if you can't do that from the start you never will.

>>382340712
You didn't read the rest of the post where Mambo Slambo is better than every defensive option you have, because [COMPANY] is shit at balance and made Rigzoggu's Mambo Slambo > Banana Slamma is fucking gay because of it

FUCK YOU ARCSYS BUFF BULLET JESUS CHRIST IT'S BEEN LIKE 6 YEARS OF "LMAO YOU'RE BOTTOM BOTTOM BOTTOM TIER"
WHAT ARE YOU FUCKING DOING?

>>382340339
I agree, and I'm not saying its bad.

Its just this is why fighting games are never going to be more popular than they are right now.

Which isn't in itself a bad thing though.

>>382340851
How's it feel having your entire community living in the shadow of a nintendo party game?

>>382340945
That's what I'm saying, too

>>382340859
Brawler with Kazuya?

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>>382340883
Tekken 7 just fucking came out. SFV is alive because as Capcom has said "Capcom fans will buy Capcom games no matter what". There's no reason why I should have to watch 3 hours of youtube videos just to learn basic combos and there's sure as fuck no reason I should have to go into the menus in the goddamn practice mode every time I want to see a moves inputs. This excuse is like the Destinyfags saying it's fine "hurr just go online and read the wiki" to understand the basic story.

>>382341047
I have no idea what you're talking about since literally all I heard about for the last 2 months is Injustice 2. I haven't heard jack about Smash for eons

>>382336234
>Gitting gud at fighting games requires more dedication than a lot of other genres, because there's just so much to keep an eye out for and things to learn. For someone completely new to the genre, the hurdle is massive.
The same can be said for mobas and they're the most popular genre in the world. Ultimately people just don't like to admit that they suck shit when they get beaten. In other games you can blame your teammates, items, whatever. In a fighter, when you lose it's because the other guy is just fucking better than you.

>>382340741
>allow me to play all the mindgames of fighting games without having to struggle
stop taking the easy route

>>382340840

I dunno man I only see immense amounts of rage flowing in every MOBA

>>382340149
>Competitive puzzle games like bubble bobble
and this genre *is* dead online within weeks of release, if it ever does have an online presence.

>Chess and other similar board games
I wouldn't compare physical games to video games since they have a very different cultural and traditional value.
Also, execution doesn't play a part, it all comes down to knowledge. You can't fuck up a chess move like you whiff a combo.

>>382340149
>RTS and possibly FPS depending on how strict you are with "pure" 1v1.
See >>382340013

>>382340236
>moving the goal posts pretty blatantly
Are you going to tell me that execution necessary at mid-level in RTS is anywhere near the execution necessary at mid-level in an FG?

>>382340240
>I wouldn't expect you tom know that though.
Yeah, I'm not huge on hardcore RTS. I wonder how you could tell.

>>382341198
God forbid you have to put in effort for something just once in your life.

>>382340840
basically this, this 200h+ barrier is just too much for most people

>>382340013
>you don't need to perform frame perfect inputs in an RTS
You don't need to perform 400 apm for 30 minutes straight in a fighting game.
Thats kinda like saying that marathon runners ain't shit because 100m sprinters are so much faster.

>>382341425
for what purpose?

If I gain no enjoyment out of it there's no reason for me to continue. This isn't a livelihood where there's an ulterior motive for me to continue with a task despite my struggles and lack of entertainment.

>>382341368
>My controller fucked up
>I don't know the matchup
>____ has too many good moves, I can't beat them
>My character is so weak
Many are the excuses of the shitter.

>>382336914
What counts as gud? There's a high standard because these games require you to learn the game first and foremost, which is a hard task because of things such as frame data and hard combos. Once you have the fundamentals such as punishes with your frame data knowledge, and then combos, there's the mind games, anticipating your opponents movements, baiting, conditioning, reacting to very fast moves like grabs and countering them - this all has to be done on the fly, and fighting games arent like league where the majority of the time you're in a slow paced farm lane for example, you need to be able to predict, condition and punish your opponent in matches that last a few minutes.

>>382341198
Excuse, one of which is just a plain conspiracy. Doesn't change the fact the good tutorials did nothing for those games while ones with next to none are doing great.

>There's no reason why I should have to watch 3 hours of youtube videos just to learn basic combos]
Nigger you will have to anyway, because people will always find more optimal shit after launch.

See this is the bad mindset that if you had you will never actually get good anyway. Fighting games will always require some research on your own part, whether it is in game or searching youtube makes fuck all difference. Causals won't do it cause they don't care enough no matter where the info exists. Even if you explain they go this is too hard make it easier so I can win.

>>382341605
silly sprinter plebs, out of breath after running not even half a minute think they can compare themselves to glorious marathon endurance master race

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>>382341540
>work fucking hard at work
>come home and study to keep myself refreshed on new info
>go to the gym to keep myself fit
>have like 2 hours to play something to have some fun

WOW SURELY I SHOULD SPEND 200 HOURS LEARNING SO I CAN START TO HAVE SOME FUN

fuck you anon.

>>382341621
That last one's pretty legitimate in Blazblue tho

>>382341608
the point is that satisfaction comes with the acquisition of skill. you want the satisfaction of reaching the summit just because you hit the first checkpoint and when you don't feel that satisfaction, you'd rather give up and find a smaller, easier mountain to climb

that's very sad

>>382341540
There's a difference between putting in effort and having to either have a phone or laptop near you just to learn the mechanics. Just like they're a difference between learning mathematics from a teacher and learning mathematics from a textbook where you need to find the pages of the textbook by deciphering morse code through a spyglass.

there many fighters its very confusing at first

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>>382341074
Brawler with Kazuya.

>>382341368
>The same can be said for mobas
Not in the same way cause execution and time.

Fighting games you have a short round time where a casual player will not be able to do stuff and fall for the dumbest thing. a Moba they can wander around and can do everything at the press of a button, even if they lose they felt like they could do things.

>>382341760
Funny, I do all of that and still dedicate the hours to a fighting game. Maybe you should git gud.

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>>382341760
You do not understand the level of fun a heated match of equal skill brings. It's like explaining sex to a virgin.

>>382335848
Personally just getting down my first BnB combo took me a few days, but after that I could get down most combos in a reasonable amount of time. I'm sure not everyone is like that but skill floor is slightly too high. Sure you could start out just trying to learn footsies but that's not fun landing your big optimized combo is fun.

>>382341570
What makes me angry at the fighting community is that they can't see why most people would consider playing a game for 200h before it can be fun something shameful.

See >>382341540 >>382341425 >>382340712
and all others in this thread. The fighting game community is insecure as as prone to take offense as a dwarf or a leper.

>>382341425
>stop having fun

Wow I can't imagine why people don't like fighting games.

>>382342026
>explainint sex to a virgin

t. virgin

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>>382336951
Beating scrubs into quiting fighting games is one of my favourite things to do.

>>382341760
So do something else then.

Is that really a hard concept?

>>382335848
There's a reason why ARMS is doing well, and it's because you can easily see the attacks coming.

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>>382341760

>>382340883
Correlation =/= causation
there are a lot of other reasons why the games you describe are dead

>GG
People new to the franchise found it too deep, players old to the franchise are still a bit skeptical about it
>KI
Xbone/Win10 only
>Arms
About as deep as Chris-Chan's vagina
>Injustice 2
>compares its it to SFV and T7, pretty much the most mainstream fighting franchises in existence, and uses the relative unpopularity as a point

>>382341935
Damn. You know in Pokemon games, how your protag is a 10 year old literally who, that trains for 2 minutes and reks trainers that have been leveling their pokemon for years and years and he just reks them? Im those trainers with the lv 23 raticate after 20 years of training, but for Tekken.

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>>382342232
>Xbone/Win10 only
Not anymore thank god.

>>382341818
>the point is that satisfaction comes with the acquisition of skill.
I have that in plenty of other areas in my life, I don't need to get that basic need satisfied from video games.

I have singing classes, I do improv acting and I have a trade that earns me my living. All of these areas are more rewarding for long term investment and benefit my life in multiple ways if I improve in them.

If I was going to dedicate 200+ hours to learning a new skill it would most certainly be picking up an instrument.

I've dedicated thousands of hours to improving in video games before and while I do not regret it, the time has passed that I would considering starting anew in an unfamiliar genre UNLESS I already had fun while picking it up for the first time in the first dozen hours or so.

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So the problem with fighting games is that you get no satisfaction or fun while you're breaking the initial 200h+ barrier.

Is there a way to make it fun for people learning these games without making the game casual garbage and without losing the core audience?

No.

Fighting games are exclusive to the most autistic gamers and thats that, you can close the thread now.

>>382340508
/thread

>>382342263
kek

>>382342131
The thread is about fighting games not being popular for being difficult. That anon just showed that convincing non-autistic people to play fighting games is a herculean task and won't happen.

Fighting games will always be a niche genre.

Fate Unlimited Codes 2 when?

>>382342392
>Fighting games will always be a niche genre.

And?

>>382342232
You are the one saying that there is a correlation as tutorials will help and get more players in. When everything shows they have zero effect

You can make excuses all you want. But when both Arms and Injustice sold very well, yet have fuck all retention with you even pointing out arms isn't deep so easy maybe tutorials do fucking nothing to help.

>retty much the most mainstream fighting franchises in existence
NRS games, that sell 8 bigillion every time, with one of the biggest IPs, aren't mainstream apparently.

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>>382342360
>you get no satisfaction or fun while you're breaking the initial 200h+ barrier

>>382335848
>"Fighting games aren't more popular because they are so difficult."
What people saying this bullshit don't seem to understand about themselves is that it's not the game itself thats really hard but it's other people who practiced are good at playing against other players.
Rising Thunder proved, without a shadow of a doubt, that it's the player that decides who wins the end.

>>382342197
The thing is that the difficulty on fighting games is at the beginning.

On games like Dark Souls, the game is hard, but it isn't very hard 100% of the time, you get little victories here and there even when you get stuck.

On fighting games when you suck you just suck, you'll never win, you'll lose with a perfect and do absolutely nothing.

There is no sense of accomplishment until you break through that initial 32487 hours barrier.

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>>382341760
kill yourself imposter normie frog

>>382341760
So go be a casual shitter in some other genre; plenty have been dumbed down for your kind.

>>382342556
Jesus fucking Christ, read the original post. This thread is literally about the non-popularity of fighting games correlating to its entry barrier.

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>>382342592
>losing a game
>perfect
>you couldn't actually hit one hit
>got stunned all the time
>fun

>>382341489
>Are you going to tell me that execution necessary at mid-level in RTS is anywhere near the execution necessary at mid-level in an FG?
That was not even close to what your original argument was. What you're doing now is the definition of goalpost moving.

>>382342714
>be pure unadulterated shit
>complain about not having fun
nah this is just not the genre for you, my man, go back to slide puzzles and hatoful boyfriend

>>382342714
>pressing buttons

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>>382342354

>le 200 hours meme
Maybe you're just not the kind of person the game's made for if you don't find it fun? I have fun with fighters right away even with new ones I suck at. I never played SCII at the arcade and thought "aw man, 199 hours to go before this gets fun", I thought that the game was fucking fun and I was enjoying myself.

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>>382342838
Shit, you're right, I didn't quite clarify in my original post that I was talking about mid-level.
My bad.

>>382342627
That is just plain not true. At low level you do not need to master any skill to beat people.

> the game is hard, but it isn't very hard 100%
Yeah man I hate when I go into training mode and get 0-2 straight away. Broken ass mechanics

>>382342887
awwwwww

I've never written pasta before, thx anon <3

>>382342845
I'm good at fighting games, I'm talking about why its shit for new players and I agree, it is shit.

Stop with the ad hominens nigglet.

>>382343068
>be pure unadulterated shit
>complain about not having fun
nah this is just not the genre for them, my man, they should go back to slide puzzles and hatoful boyfriend

fix'd

>>382343063
>Play against a literally punching bag in training mode
That's.
Not.
Fun.

>>382342887
well done

>>382342909
>I never played SCII at the arcade
SCII is a PC game

>>382335848
There's a reason run&gun shooters and moviegames are so big right now: they require the least input to git gud at.

>>382342627
>break through the barrier
>>382342714
>I dont win every single time
>when i lose, i learn nothing from the match
man, some people aren't just shitty at games, they are shitty at life. nothing good will be easy, and if it is easy, it's probably not worth doing.

I get fucked up by lucky chloe's all the time, do i just drop the game and say fuck it? no, i look at her moves, know what she's capable of, and plan accordingly. A King wrecks me because of rolling death cradle? Find out how to escape the throw. This isn't fucking mario paint, this isn't fucking candy crush, the shit won't be easy.
>>382343068
if a new player comes into the game and expects to win all the time, of course he's going to feel deflated after that tenth loss, because his mindset wasn't right.

>>382343178
Soul Calibur, anon.

>>382335848
Too many games.

Everynormie plays MOBAs instead.

Humanity is diseased.

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>>382343160
you play against the punching bag in training mode so you can do the fun shit against actual players

hard work pays off

>>382343157
and this is why fighting games aren't so popular, are we actually agreeing with each other?

only people autistic enough to break the initial barrier like us will get to like fighting games.

in a way its like chess, unless you really study the game, you won't get any fun playing it against other people.

>>382342887
Anon isn't wrong, if you have a bunch of shit going on and you don't have a lot of time for vidya, it's normal to spend it playing something you're already good at or something that doesn't take a lot of skill.

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>>382336040
>Not even just casuals, but people here too.

>>382335848
Fighting games aren't more popular because it's player base is pathetically tryhard.

>Lobby is for beginners
>9/10 of the people who join have thousands of matches under their belt and just join for an easy win because they're that fucking desperate that they can actually feel accomplishment from beating someone who has like 2 hours in the game
>That person with 2 hours then drops the game after 10+ one sided matches against veterns
>rinse and repeat

>>382341760
>waaaah why can't i get good at a fighting game with only a few minutes of practice!!!
No one's forcing you to git gud fast. In fact, there's no way you can git gud fast unless you're experienced with other competitive fighting games.

In single player games the CPU is usually designed to be easy enough that the player most of the time "wins" and feels like he is succeeding and is made only just challenging enough not to be boringly easy. Whereas in player vs. player both players want to win and there's no way of making it easier for both players to win because it's a zero-sum game. This is why player vs. player games are generally speaking "harder" than most single player games.

>>382342710
And that will never change because fighting games will always be too difficult for the majority of players. People seem to think that it's the combos and execution that makes them hard when that's only the beginning of the learning curve. It's knowing all your options, weighing them against each other then out thinking and conditioning your opponent that's the difficult part. Only after thousands of hours of various matchups and experience will people understand this.

Some people find that learning experience fun, most people don't. Apply this to literally anything else in the world that takes hundreds and thousands of hours to master.

>>382337702
>Dicking around in overwatch can be fun even as a bronze.
See I completely disagree. Overwatch is mind numbing to me, you get the game so quickly there i fuck all left to learn outside general FPS skill.

Then on you just do the same thing forever making mild progress and following a strict meta.

>>382343243
What do you learn from a perfect? You couldn't even do anything.

People learn from making mistakes and testing things, if they aren't allowed to even do anything, what do they learn?

>>382343331
>You play against literally nothing so you can go in and sandbag for the other guy instead because he was playing against people for 200hrs.

Nobody fucking enjoys booting up "The ol' lab" and being autistic on a sandbag for hours.

And then you have people that don't live in a city, where your only choice of games are CONNECTION TO OPPONENT HAS BEEN LOST

>>382343605
>Nobody fucking enjoys booting up "The ol' lab" and being autistic on a sandbag for hours.
I do.

It's how I show up and wreck scrubs like you.

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>>382335848
Smash is the right way to do fighting games.
Me and my friends were just talking about this yesterday while playing Street Fighter.
We noticed we all pretty much are stuck playing one, maybe two characters, because unless you have a lot of time in someone, learn their moves, etc you can't really...play the game, you just have to button mash.

Meanwhile in Smash, you can pick any character for the first time and still have fun on some level, even if you don't win.

>>382343426
nayrt but I agree; it's just the autistic and poncey way he put it that's so hilarious

>>382343605
>>You play against literally nothing so you can go in and sandbag for the other guy instead because he was playing against people for 200hrs.
it's not a 'one or the other' kinda deal dude, you play against others and then you mix in a bit of training mode when you want to practice combos or learn against something that was beating you online.
>Nobody fucking enjoys booting up "The ol' lab" and being autistic on a sandbag for hours.
I do

maybe the genre just isn't for you my man

>>382343243
How long have you been playing fighting games anon?

I've only been playing for a year or so, but my friend group who is from NorCal have been playing fighting games their entire life, from arcades to locals.

I enjoy the games and focus on microgoals to improve and just 'win the game', but you and a lot of my friends can't seem to remember what it was like 20 years ago just starting out.

If you can't see how playing against 20 years of muscle memory isn't soul crushing, I don't know what to tell you.

>>382343331
That's the thing.
Majority of people do not like coming home from work or school to then commit "hard work" in a video game for hundreds of hours so they can enjoy it on some level.

>all you need is an opponent of equal skill
This is biggest problem. I play a lot of fighting games and play in my local FGC so I have more access to people of my skill level but online is different. When you get to a solid intermediate level in a fighting game online becomes a routine of mostly this:
1. You wrecking scrubs in easy blowout matches because they just keep falling for the same h/l mix up, frame trap ect... This means you get nothing out of the match, don't actually improve as a player and don't get any useful match up knowledge.
2. You fight someone who has great matchup knowledge across the game, a few options selects you probably didn't know that character had and flawless execution. I'm not saying matches like this are unwinnable or inherently shitty but they can constantly leave you with feeling of "I tried my best but I just don't know what to do against that character at that level."
The stark dichotomy in online skill level makes it hard to grow your skill to that very high skill level because the middle steps of fighting competent mid level players just isn't as common as it needs to be. Local play feels like more of an even play field and also makes improving drastically faster because your opponent or someone watching your match can just tell you what your doing wrong or need to do. It insane how many times one piece of advice has completely changed how I deal with certain matchups.

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>>382343528
This lol, I tried that SFV test to see if I should buy the game.

Played like 5 matches, lost every one of the almost by perfect even when I put the name of the room "BEGINNER - NEVER PLAYED BEFORE- GO EASY", never played it again.

>>382343595
>You couldn't even do anything.
Learn to block and stop pressing shit at bad times

>>382343605
I honestly enjoy labbing combos and learning new characters as much as playing. Exploring the extent of mechanic is fun

>>382337985
That's why the etiquette back then in the arcades was to let the other person win the second round when you were clearly stronger.

>>382343761
>It is only fun if you can do moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzkCmidjeHc

>>382343904
That goes out the window in this age where it's all 3rd worlders and 15 year olds.

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>>382335848
because at a casual level, fighting games aren't just difficult, they're boring. you can win low level games just by spamming one to two decent moves or spamming throws. having an opponent of equal skill won't be fun because then it's just a battle of who can mash x faster. and if you want to go past that point and get decent at the game, you'll have to dedicate a lot of time and effort into learning about your character AND their matchups. And frankly casuals and hell most people who play games in general just don't want to dedicate those dozens (if not hundreds) of hours just so you can have fun playing the game.
>Difficult execution for example doesn't make the game any more "difficult" in any generic sense
Yes it does. Doing King's sample combo 5 in Tekken 7 is infinitely more difficult than using an ultimate in Overwatch.

also what this guy said >>382343861

>>382343605
>he doesn't enjoy practicing combos, experimenting with new set ups, reversals, and mix-ups
Fucking around in practice mode is therapeutic as fuck

>>382343761

Moves are generic as fuck across the board nowadays, the only exception to the rule is charge characters.

Once you learn a baseline of skill on SF, you can pick up and play any other fighting game, although you'll have to learn their nuances too.

>>382343987
Yes, it is only fun if you can play the game.
Basically being juggled from 100% to 0% is not playing the game, let alone fun.

>>382343817
>what it was like 20 years ago just starting out.
If you were a bitch who couldn't deal with losing and learning from it you would never get anywhere anyway

>If you can't see how playing against 20 years of muscle memory
Then play against other casuals not vets

>>382343904
>letting people win
was this really a thing? I hate when people do that to me, literally the same thing as pity

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>>382335848
If fighting games aren't new player friendly they'll continue fading into obscurity until a more new player friendly alternative comes out.

Thats what happened to RTS.

There needs to be room for skill, but there needs to be room for a lack of it as well.

>>382343857
>commit "hard work" in a video game for hundreds of hours
>hundreds of hours
please stop this meme. I've never played a tekken in my life and after maybe 2 hours in training mode I knew all my moves and could do all my combos, even a little bit of korean backdashing.

the potential to get better is always there and that's why the genre is so enjoyable. sitting in the lab is fun because once you apply that effort to an actual match it feels fucking amazing to get off that combo or setup that you had been practicing

Fighting game fans have to realize, if they want their autistic hardcore games, that's totally absolutely fine, seriously, not even trying to be sarcastic.
BUT then they also can not question or complain about the fact their genre is a hair away from becoming extinct.

>>382343595
you learn literally what not to do
>ducked when the opponent was going for a mid
block high
>crazy 1-2-3 move that goes mid, low, high
learn the technique, block accordingly.
>thrown 20 times
learn how to throw break.

or, in tekken's case a lot of the time, just block more. you don't HAVE to do anything if the opponent is just throwing shit out, wait for them to whiff and punish that shit. i keep getting perfected by law's because i have no idea how to block low, but does that stop me? no. got over 400 matches with feng right now, but i've only won 40% of them. I won't give up just because an eliza fucked me up with moves ive never seen before because i dont have the DLC
>>382343817
now that you say this and im thinking about it, i've been playing fighting games since i was 15, so almost a solid 15 years now, wow. but even then i do remember getting fucked up in every single online/local match i'd play. it didn't stop me because i wanted to be good and understood that you're going to be really shitty until you're not.

Vividly remember getting my ass handed to me seemingly by the minute, playing third strike on kaillera, never giving up because i got perfected, it only made me want to rematch and fuck him up instead.

so yes, you're right, there is a massive hurdle that new players today will have to climb, but it is climbable, anyone giving up before even really getting their hands dirty are losers.

>>382343670
>>382343783
>>382343885
>>382344036
>I do.
You're autistic, though.
Most people buy multiplayer games to fight other players, not to play Barbie's Dream House 2: Ken's Roid-Rage.

Sandbagging the AI (or lack thereof) isn't FUN unless you're already autistic and past the barrier of entry.
And then even if you DO beat up a lifeless doll for an hour, you hop on, what happens?
Ay bitch, you're the doll now lmao PERFECT

>>382343885
>Learn to block and stop pressing shit at bad times
Yeah, because "Stop hitting buttons lmao" will help a newbie block when you high-low mix-up in to frame-traps and fuckin cross-up his ass for funsies.

You people aren't looking at this from the perspective of a new player.
You're looking at this from the perspective of an autistic retard that thinks
>Hm, yes. I hit jab once and got perfected. I have deduced that the solution was actually c.LK in to tatsu
Rather than
>So like I play the game by doing nothing?

>>382343861
See you said a lot but what you actually said
>If I win they are shit if they win this game is busted this guy was too good the game is totally unfair

I never really play fighting games, the closest i got to was smash.

But other then that i just don't enjoy em. Same reason why I just don't enjoy sports games. They aint fun.

>>382344193
>a hair a way from becoming extinct
we left the fighting game dark age years ago anon, fighting games are doing the best they have been since the arcade and early console days

>>382343761
I think SFV is doing things pretty right, I feel like saying you're stuck playing two characters is bullshit, learning any characters execution is easy as hell because of the input leniancy, the determining factor of skill level is overall knowledge. Yes you will have more knowledge of whatever character you've been playing as but then you could gain infinitely more knowledge on that character by watching pros play and youtube videos.

>>382344289
Yeah man, the four series you got floating around are real impressive.

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>buy SF4
>play around 500 hours
>still a 1,2k PP pleb
>SFV comes out
>ragequit a few times
>it now takes 30 mins to find a game
>never play fightans again
At least I can say I tried

>>382344208
>enjoying practice is autistic
I didn't even read the rest of your drivel

>>382344241
Are you certain you don't want to learn how to play birdie, the fat ugly British scoundrel and wreck people with him? You just have to practice two or three combos.

>>382344368
Oh man this.
I just booted up SFV for the first time this year yesterday at 11am (note it's the summer, few people have school) and I spent 10-15 minutes in both the casual and ranked matchmaking...and never found a match.

>>382336458
>Why don't those casuals just beat other casuals who don't dedicate hours to a video game?
Finding casuals is hard in a fighting game unless you have friends. Ranked play isn't the norm save SFV and maybe Tekken. Casuals only truly exist for the first week of a game and then it gets too hard and they give up. There's not a large enough playerbase to always find people around your skill level to learn.

>>382344368
this is literally how I stopped playing fighting games

>>382344208
>Yeah, because "Stop hitting buttons lmao" will help
Yes it will, because pressure doesn't last forever so if you have no idea what to do just block until they have to let up

Once you see a sequence you can learn when you are safe, and you don't need to know the perfect punish just learn a simple and fast one that may not be optimal but can be used in most circumstances.

>>382344441
>Repeating the same thing over and over and getting enjoyment out of it is not a common autistic trait

Why do you think people say minecraft is for autis?

fighting games just aren't enjoyable and the people who stick around to do so are like the people still playing quake 1 multiplayer

>>382344208
>You're autistic, though.
I'm not
>Most people buy multiplayer games to fight other players
Fighting other players is fun but you know whats more fun? Beating other players. And what helps with that is a little bit of training mode sprinkled in between.
>And then even if you DO beat up a lifeless doll for an hour, you hop on, what happens?
>Ay bitch, you're the doll now lmao PERFECT
Ranking systems are in place to prevent that from happening.

You're just shit at fighting games and trying your hardest to compensate by the sounds. Wouldn't be this passionate about it otherwise.

>>382344535
>he repeats the same thing over and over in practice mode
you're not practicing correctly.

I don't understand. When a difficult action game comes out that doesn't explain verbatim the exact way you're supposed to play it, it's fine, and people even consider it one of their favorite games, but when fighting games do it, they have too high a barrier of entry for people to handle? I blame stream monstering for spreading this idea that you're only supposed to play in "hype" ways that look cool, instead of just playing the damn game.

>>382344476
What you are actually saying is they are hard in anime games no one plays anyway

when it isn't hard in the two biggest games which most casuals will try first, it isn't an issue

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>36 (You)s from this thread
FGC is truly the most autistic community

>>382344365
>SFV
>Tekken
>Injustice
>Guilty
>Marvel
>KI
>smash
yeah it's going pretty well. certainly doing better than the other dinosaurs like RTS and Arena Shooters

You should NEVER ask someone to go easy on you. You wont learn that way.

If they are destroying you, ask them for tips. Most good players will be happy to help out.

There is a certain social element to fighting games, you add people who kick your ass and keep fighting them to absorb their knowledge.

Also sometimes if someone wont block a move I'll keep doing it over and over so they can figure out how to block it, I'm not going easy I'm just trying to teach them in game.

>>382337117
>Most of the effort goes into balance, sure, but fighting game developers are ridiculously slow compared to other competitive genres for rate of development.
Balancing a character in a fighting game requires MUCH more effort that just adding cooldown to an ability on a hero on overwatch

>>382339982
well normies need to find another hobby then

>>382344289
Fighting games are dead dude. The age of arena arcade games is coming. These games require skill but all moves are easily performed requiring no bullshit sitting in practice mode. Skill comes from movement and not gorilla mashing out a combo you memorized. Gundam Versus, Dissidia NT. Fighting games are finished once these release in the West. Just like RTS were killed by MOBA's so too will fighting games die to arena fighters. Enjoy your final year.

>>382344542
Yeah man, fuck people doing things they like.

>>382344689
>I'm talking to be people and they are talking back!
>I've been posting in a thread about games I hate all day!
make that 37 buddy, you're the real autist

>>382344141
>they'll continue fading into obscurity
Apart from the opposite is true. Loads of new games, great attendance and even PC fighting games are more alive than every before.

Fighting games do not need 100k of normies who'd get stuck in bronze , they need a handful of autists from each generation

>>382344858
>talking
you wish, fuckboy

>>382344205
>you learn literally what not to do
New players don't think like this, you autistic retard.
New players just see Soul Goodgirl run up, particle effects and hit-stop, and hear
>BING BING WAHOO
>Watashi wa warimansen, kid.
>Pshhhhh
>YOU LOSE

They don't see Big Dick Johnson walk up, frame-trap, grab, short-hop crouch cancel in to an High-Low mix-up.

>>382344519
>>382344583
>Guy that has sunk over 200 hours in this one game and completely sandbags your ass
>Giving you really easy shit to see if you're a BEGINNER
What part of this shit don't you retards get?
BEGINNER
Not "Played GG for 8 years and moved on to SFV"-Beginner
But fucking "Hello yes I want to try a fighting game"-tier Beginner.

I'm decent at fighting games. I'm just not a fucking retard and understand how new players think, because I've tried to get mates in to this genre for YEARS.

>>382344769
They shouldn't go all-out on you to begin with after that first little bit where they figure out
>Oh shit, this guy's fresh and new.
Because you're not going to understand JACK SHIT at that level if he goes all out.

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I said this before.

Casuals don't want to learn fundamentals they want flashy easy combos that put up a huge K.O! Sign.

Why do you think NRS games are so popular with them? They are easy and flashy with fatalitys brutality, super moves etc...

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>>382335848
There's actually a point in there. Games for "low combat IQ" do sell a lot more on consoles. Games for "high combat IQ" seem to only thrive in arcades.

Having said that, no one takes low IQ games seriously, not even the people who buy them. The one exception is Smash but that's not a fighting game.

>>382344820
naruto/dbz arena garbage has been around for ages and it never killed anything, keep dreaming

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>>382344634
You can't blame anyone but yourself in a fighting game. I mean, you can, but it doesn't actually make sense when you do. Losing to someone else, the inferiority, is too much for some people I guess. Competitiveness isn't just about winning against your opponent, but winning against yourself, learning, practicing, and constantly improving despite numerous losses. But to even begin with that process you have to acknowledge that there is and always will be someone better than yourself.

>>382344820
>Skill comes from movement and not gorilla mashing out a combo you memorized.

You mean like spacing, footsies and zoning like in any worthwhile fighting game?

>>382344820
>Gundam Versus

That shit is still too hard for casuals. You have to master the movement or you will get shit on by people who know how to properly use their boosts so they arent a slow as fuck turtle.

That shit aint Naruto or DBZ Xenoverse

>>382344793

I'm talking about releasing patches, bug fixes, new content etc.
Some claim excuses like arcade parity or certification but really, it's just extremely slow.
Especially since most fighting games don't touch characters ever for various reasons, least of all because you got this arcane hitbox oriented frame data bollocks when in the cases of e.g. Tekken you can easily just bind to model.

>>382344368
>>382344501
These people are memeing you consistently find a game in SFV in under a minute, at silver rank anyway.

>>382335848
This is why most sane people don't like fighting games:

GOOD IDEA beats BAD IDEA
BETTER IDEA beats GOOD IDEA
BEST IDEA beats BETTER IDEA
BAD IDEA beats BEST IDEA

NO OTHER GENRE works that way, you have to be a crazy person to like a game that works like fighting games do

>>382344930
>people who have been playing the game for years and sunk thousands of hours into it dominate people who haven't touched it in their life
why is this allowed?

>>382345065
I don't know I like rock paper scissors

>>382345109
>Man, why don't people like my genre? I want more people to play against.
>"Because you're the kid that, when Timmy asks how to drive you slap the controller from his hand and yell 'LEARN, BITCH'!"
>I don't get it, though.

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>>382340508
>you need to be humble to play a 1v1 competitive game

The #1 player for competitive fighters in the world is an autistic gay furfag who's full of himself. Tell me that you can't smell the narcissism coming off this guy.

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>>382345065
>BAD IDEA beats BEST IDEA
what the fuck are you talking about

>>382344930
>Guy that has sunk over 200 hours in this one game
Why is a casual playing someone with 200 hours? Rank doesn't work that way, if you join a community or discord you fight other low level players or one that helps you through stuff

> I'm just not a fucking retard and understand how new players think
Only in that you moan constantly

All they need is too block and learn one 10 frame punish which is usually just a 1 or 2 string. That is all they need to not be perfected, once someone tries something even a frame trap the 10 frame will beat it just not optimal

So this smug autistic fuck Ludwig van Beethoven thinks he's hot shit just because he spent thousands of hours practicing how to play the piano and then laughs at me whenever I get on and it sounds like shit.

Fuck these spergs spending their free time on some loser shit like this.

Fighting games are too hard to be popular. I like Tekken and Soul Calibur though.

I've only been playing fighting games for about 3 years now but I still love the genre and the FGC to death.

For me the most frustrating thing is when you are stuck in between the level of starting to get good but still being bad.

I get frustrated more than anything when I am trying to put in my gameplan against a player that has no concept of respect or self preservation that it is impossible to condition them into doing what you want.

But when I fight good players, even if I lose a lot I still feel satisfaction that I can force them into the situations I want to.

>>382345262
are you kid in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RkapfBYIfc

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>>382344930
>walk up frame trap

>>382344007
>Yes it does. Doing King's sample combo 5 in Tekken 7 is infinitely more difficult than using an ultimate in Overwatch.

Nah. As I said, easier execution would only mean that other skills would matter more, not that the game would be easier. It depends what is your forte.

What you wrote before that was a decent answer to the question though.

>>382344995
You fighter fags and your footsies horseshit. It's hilarious how you try to make a simple concept of hit your opponent first so you can combo into a huge thing. Footsies, zoning, whatever none of it compares to true movement in an arena fighter where someone could be above you, behind you and off the screen, below you, etc. You don't truly have to worry about anything in fighting games compared to arena fighters. There's a reason Gundam Versus and Dissidia are the top arcade games in japan and it's because they are easy to pick up but incredibly hard to master.

>>382344963
This, new players want to hop right in and have everything that they try be something that works. People can't seem to handle that FGs have certain strats in the game by design, even though that's not unique to the genre at all.

>>382344240
Did you even read my post? I never complained about any games I play being unfair or imbalanced.

Because there is no reason to play them unless you plan on being in the FGC or some shit
and most people don't want to put in a whole a lot of work and hours especially if they have other shit to do and only play games casually
At best they will just play with friends sometimes and move on to another game

>>382344930
man, people are even dumber than i think (even as a fighting game scrub) if their thought process doesn't go
>man, he really fucked me up, what happened? well, i ducked, then he hit me with a move. since i couldn't block it, it had to have been a mid
>maybe next time i will block high

motherfucker i was doing this at 15 when playing third strike, getting fucked up by hugos because i wanted to attack him on wakeup and kept getting SPD'd. thought to myself, hey, maybe i -shouldn't- stand right next to the big strong guy when he gets up

it worked. that's how you approach fighting games, its trial and error, but the trials are your own, the errors happen each match.

Tekken is very accessible. Most 3D fighting games are. At least the people I know all enjoy them.
2D fighting games and the focus on specials and projectile zoning is what people dont get.

>>382335848
That's the dumbest thing I read today, difficult execution absolutely makes the game harder

>>382345316
reversal dp?

>>382345065
What would you rather watch:

a bunch of cripples playing tethered tee ball with a mandatory "everyone is allowed to score" rule or major league baseball?

A bunch of fat feminists in moomoos (sp?) smiling suggestively at a camera behind bulletproof glass or super models with perfect bodies slathered in mineral oil performing pole dances?

A bunch of cancer patients from a leper colong play tickle tag or the olympics?

kindergarten musical chairs where there are always as many chairs as players or american gladiators?

>>382345334
>Why is a casual playing someone with 200 hours? Rank doesn't work that way, if you join a community or discord you fight other low level players or one that helps you through stuff
Because the casual player didn't buy Xrd Rev 2 and go
>Okay, now what Reddit meme or discord should I join?
Retard.
>Only in that you moan constantly
Because you're a fucking dumbass and don't get it.

>All they need is too block and learn one 10 frame punish which is usually just a 1 or 2 string.
NEWBIES DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND THIS SHIT, NIGGER.

>>382345508
>man, people are even dumber than i think
HEY LOOK
SOMEONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN FINALLY POSTED
Do you people PLAY video games that aren't Street Fighter? How is this shit NEWS to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuDOzPd6bXU

God I love this.

>>382335848
I agree, but that is still a problem why people don't get into it.
If a genre is more niche it will be harder to find players that are into it. The ones that do play it (especially in games with a high skill-ceiling) they will be ungodly good at it.
Quake has the same problem. Incredibly fun and exciting to play as a noob against fellow shitters, but that quickly becomes more rare if there isn't a special event or new game that comes out. Just downloaded the Quake Champions beta and hope my pc can run it and there are more new players.

Looking at the Quakecon qualifyers was hilarious because the old pros stomped the new competitors so hard. The first three matches were very short straight up flawless victories.

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>>382345518

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I don't know how you guys can enjoy hammering out setups in training mode. Now that I think about it I've been playing fighting games for the better half of a decade and that shit still bores me to death. When I go in training mode I just turn the AI up to max difficulty and beat the shit out of it for half an hour or more. Sometimes I'll hit it with a weird combo, turn off the AI and explore that route for a while to see if it's any good at my current level of execution, but mostly it's just hitconfirm practice. Hell, I didn't even do that in SF4. I just learn from fighting other retards online, and that's carried me to being fairly mediocre in most games I play.

>>382345065
The mindgames are my favorite part of fighting games. Whether it's hitting someone with an overhead 5 times in a row like I'm Jyobin or actually outthinking someone and catching them with a Throw Reject Miss, the mental aspect is more fun (and more hilarious) than anything else.

>>382345440
>It's hilarious how you try to make a simple concept of hit your opponent first so you can combo into a huge thing
it is a huge thing retard, someone who's only learned combos and nothing more will get absolutely destroyed when they realise they can't just jump in or spam their combos on a dummy like training mode and they have to actually work for it

why pretend to be educated about a genre you clearly know absolutely nothing about?

>>382345697
that was a great one

>>382345586
if it works how is it a BAD IDEA?

also best idea wouldn't be getting beaten by a DP, best idea would be a safe jump or some shit that beats that too

>>382335848
The real reason is that fighting games are dumb but nobody wanted to hurt your feelings.

>>382345664
>someone with a brain finally posted
aw, thanks man. I know it's sarcastic, but hell I've played nearly every fighting game, minus the latest KoFs, virtual fighter and anime fighters, blazblue and the like.

That's probably why im not complete shit at tekken, a lot of fighting game skills carry over from game to game.

>>382346019
I wasn't sarcastic.

>>382345851
I know exactly what its about. Don't get hit and hit your opponent its a basic fucking idea but for whatever reason you fags try to label it footsies. Like omg that guy moved back 2 inches before the other guy swung wow footsies. It's a basic ass concept that is common sense to everyone but you guys go and confuse people by calling it footsies or whatever to try and make yourselves sound high and mighty.

>>382345403
It would make other skills matter more but it wouldn't make the overall difficulty of the game stay the same. Difficulty would be lowered. Let's take two important parts of fighting games. Movement and combos. Combos can be anywhere from relatively easy to pull off or so difficult that even top level players still fuck up on occasion. Now let's say your combo was as easy as pressing 1 button. That's all. You press the button, your character does the entire combo from there. For the sake of the example let's say if the first attack is blocked, the character will automatically drop the combo. That doesn't suddenly make movement more difficult. It doesn't make mind games more difficult. It makes the game easier, end of story. You're taking out difficulty and not adding anything else to raise it back up. Yes other parts of the game become more important, but they don't become more difficult. No one would ever say Rising Thunder is as difficult to play as Street Fighter.

>>382345615
NO OTHER GENRE OF COMPETITIVE GAME has tactics that are so dumb they flip back around to being smart

>>382345940
This is the kind of mentality that makes most people hate fighting games. In every other type of competitive game people who do stupid things frequently are just bad and effortlessly crushed, where in fighting games the stupid options are powerful tools and always need to be played around, resulting in a genre that's thoroughly degenerate and won't ever reach the mental heights of other games.

>>382345664
>Because the casual player didn't buy Xrd Rev 2 and go
Then they didn't play anyone cause fuck all play GG ranked and you have a choice of who to play when you do

>NEWBIES DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND
If you go in knowing nothing at any competitive game you will lose, all expect you to have looked up the bare minimum

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>>382345770
kind of hard for me to focus in training mode i practice a set up for a bit and then get sidetracked when i think i could do etc into etc or hop set ups fakes or resets

>>382346339
>tactics that are so dumb they flip back around to being smart
Provide an example of what it you're referring to, if you would kindly.

>>382346019
I hear sloths really know how to suck cock

>>382346452
what. i mean, cool info bro, but, what?

>>382346354
>Being this fucking retarded that you basically fail to understand basic concepts in posts for like 10 posts in a row.
You are a dumb ass nigga.

Less time sandbagging a training dummy, more time reading books.

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>>382346213
>It's a basic ass concept that is common sense to everyone but you guys go and confuse people by calling it footsies
how is that confusing in anyway? is the word "combo" confusing because we could be calling it "when you hit an opponent multiple times in a row and they can't do anything about it"?
>to try and make yourselves sound high and mighty.
the only one giving the word footsies any power is you. it's a basic concept like you said, doesn't mean it isn't the most in depth part of most fighting games

There was plenty of input from non-fighting players in this thread, but I'll still say something from the PoV of total fighting scrub (all my experience is UMK3 in childhood when I cheesed story with Noob Saibot's cloud thing and 2hu fighting story modes).
Many people dislike fightings because when they initially see them, they see the cool stuff. They see explosions, victory animations, and, most of all, they see characters. Colorful, beautiful characters of all kinds, from down to earth men in gi to japanese monsters to titty monsters to god-like monsters. At least that's how I see new fightings.
I feel that "Wow, I GOT to play this shit, I got to play as him, and her, and that not sure what the fuck is it", and then all colorful stuff fades, because under the hood you have all those frame tables, combos, mechanics, mechanics, mechanics. I can assume that most people don't think "Too bad I'm lazy shit who don't want to get into this stuff seriously" - they think that if game is out here it should be playable by anyone no matter how much effort player is willing to give. Then they swarm it with bad rep and run away. To MOBAs, for example, as those games also use characters as front of their marketing campaign.
What I want to say: perhaps Capcom and others should stop wasting money on things UNneeded in fighters? I mean, stop pouring into graphics which most players who play seriously won't really see. Stop posing as AAA-titles.

>>382345270
>Sonic Fox
>#1 comp fighter
We don't play anime or Smash, faggot.

>>382346648
>how is that confusing in anyway? is the word "combo" confusing because we could be calling it "when you hit an opponent multiple times in a row and they can't do anything about it"?
Combo is short for combination, which is an actual word.

Footsies is an actual word if you are 2.
Try your post again.

>>382346371

>dat heel toe clutch kick

I need to rewatch Initial D.

>>382346439
https://youtu.be/ySz7GUty2rs

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>>382344368
>>382344461

There are no players because people like this >>382343883 never got a chance to learn the fucking game lmao.

>>382346671
He's the most highly paid fighting game player on the planet right now. Over three hundred million dollars in total.

>>382346756
You understand that the concept you're shitting on is a key fundamental of games like Gundam. It's literally a fighting game but instead of zoning and spacing with limbs, you're doing it with projectiles.

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>>382346756
okay so what do you wanna call it because I sure don't want to have to hit out with a paragraph every time I explain something that happens in the neutral game

why does it bother you so much?

>>382346903
No I wasn't that guy.

>>382346439
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfEVcZ3anG0

>>382346339
I ask again, how is it stupid if it works?

why is doing a reversal DP stupid if I know my opponent is gonna press something and get hit by it?

>>382347141
The rufus player is a known moron. Guy freaks out at tournaments and constantly writes posts about how he's going to kill himself after he gets knocked out of a tournament.

He's the prime example of a player that knows something but not enough. Any good player would have punished the Ryu on every mistake he made where as FSB fucked up constantly.

>>382346857
>Over three hundred million dollars in total.
>Total Prize Money Earned: $323,211.20 From 55 Tournaments
Nigga, are you retarded? Holy fucking Christ I knew Smashfags had down syndrome but not being able to tell a comma from a decimal is unacceptable, anon.

The only reason he's so successful is because anime has a small pool of fucking players because it's trash and nobody plays fucking Mortal Kombat. Look how far he's come in SFV and Tekken, you fucking furfag.

>>382335848
I think it would be more accurate to say that they're not as popular because for most people its tedious as fuck to get to the point where you're competent enough to really be able to hold your own in the meat and potatoes of the game.

>>382345270
Only for MK games. His presence in virtually every other fighter is non-existent. The only lesson to be learned here is NRS (WB) have a lot of money to throw around, something virtually every other fighter could pick up on.

Also I'm pretty sure it's 300k not 300m. MK is popular but not 300m popular.

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I'm hoping we get more interest once DBZF comes out

>>382346239
>For the sake of the example let's say if the first attack is blocked, the character will automatically drop the combo. That doesn't suddenly make movement more difficult. It doesn't make mind games more difficult.

It makes them more difficult because the standard in those areas will become higher as they matter more now.

>>382347290
The anime fighters he play is pretty unpopular even within that genre, except maybe Skullgirls

>>382342110
I hope you enjoy having nobody to play against later you autistic retard

>>382347284
>Excuses.

>>382342110
>favourite
>favOURite
>implying EUfags have a good enough connection to compete online
I know you fags don't have locals out there so don't even try to lie to me. Outside of Ryan Hart ya'll are garbage.

>>382344634
It takes a lot less time to get good at Ninja Gaiden, which is tuned a certain way with escalating difficulty, than it does to be competitive against people who spent every waking hour of the past decade or two obsessing over frame data.

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>>382347689
>please coddle me and treat me gently!
get good

>>382347590
This, casualisation never actually makes fighting games easier

Simpler combos and inputs? Now every player can easily do max damage so you will die quicker
Make pressure harder? Now it is harder to play offensively and pres buttons
Make whiff punishing harder? Now everything is safe so it is hard to deal with shit
Make whiff punishing easier? Now you get punished hard for nothing

Fighting games don't need a big change up especially from people who don't know shit about them

>>382346239
>. You press the button, your character does the entire combo from there
So now you can get max damage, in fact everyone does so a new player eats a full combo every time killing them in a few hits. The game is no harder at low level where most players drop combos constantly, and less interesting at high level where now everyone is completely consistent.

>For the sake of the example let's say if the first attack is blocked, the character will automatically drop the combo.
So it is also low risk, it is basically like throwing out a normal that takes off 30%

>>382347983
You're right, they just need to continue circling the drain until the genre dies for good.

>>382346663
I can see that but I feel like they try to make a character move set and what they're good at compliment the character. Like in SFV as bison, your walk speed is slow and bad ass but that's because you get the best dash in the game and can get in for free with hard scissor kick and devil reverse, you're actually insanely mobile. You're v trigger is the most broken thing in the game and lets you actually fucking cancel special moves into other special moves, a free mixup with ex head stomp, and it makes your dash even fucking better. Finally you have a ton of safe pressure options, a cancel-able 3 frame normal, a parry, and a natural frame trap in shadow axe. You actually feel like an unstoppable psycho power fueled dictator and bison isn't even good.

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>>382336234
It's why you've seen this recent trend of people trying to remove barries of entry and make fighters more casual-friendly by lowering the bar required to be considered competent. This was exemplified in titles like Rising Thunder, where you literally had one-button specials and supers and things were clearly labeled.

>>382347146
There's a difference between doing something smart and unexpected and reading someone, and just gambling and hoping it pays off

Fighting games can have a lot of the former, but NO OTHER COMPETITIVE GAME rewards the latter even 1% as much as fighting games

Fighting games are inherently degenerate

Fighting games just need to make tutorials fun. GG:Rev did it pretty well. Even SFV is on the right track by giving you FM based on clearing trails. They really need to ease into it more, because total newbies will never be able to clear an entire set of trails.

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>>382336770
TIER

>>382348560
>just gambling and hoping it pays off
you literally, LITERALLY just described a 'hard read', what the fuck are you on about? every single guess on what your opponent is about to do is a gamble, because they might not do it

>>382348446
>circling the drain
Kinda difficult with all these new games and players clogging it up. Fighting games are much more alive than 10 years ago. The only game to really have a big slip up is SFV

/v/ doesnt seem to realize that fighting games are 100% or nothing. of course if you're not completely invested and passionate about improving, it's just gonna be a frustrating snoozefest. that's why fighting games will always be a niche market.

t. fightan player

>>382346648
No because a combo is easily defined and mentioned in the game. Saying footsies just sounds retarded especially from a spectator point of view. Someone mentions footsies and you are like what the hell is that? "wow fucking noob doesn't know footsies hahahaha" then you go read about it and its some 30 page long bullshit essay to say what everyone understands by just playing the game.

>>382346903
Nobody playing Gundam calls it fucking footsies lmao because the idea is so simple there is no need. It's understood the moment you play the game but it takes practice to get good at. And no its not literally a fighting game.

>>382343331
wtf what a risk on the the cd1..if you thought he was going to duck just do ff3 out of the dash or crouch dash

>>382348560
>There's a difference between doing something smart and unexpected and reading someone, and just gambling and hoping it pays off
That's true, but in any fighting game there are a million tools that a good player can use to work their way around a retarded player, and thus at the top level no one acts retarded. Struggling against retards is the sign that someone is still not actually good. See this match from online warrior FSP's first offline tournament, it's a good laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfEVcZ3anG0
>Fighting games are inherently degenerate
really odd word choice t b h

>>382347019
neutral

>>382340260
Skullgirls was the game that set the bar for tutorials. Killer Instinct and Guilty Gear Xrd built on top of it.

>>382348586
If that were true KI and GG would be the biggest games right now

>Fighting games just need to make tutorials fun
If you don't find them fum as they are you won't find fighting games fun in general. Because learning is part and parcel and there will be no jingles telling you well done

>>382347793
>amerilard talking about connection speeds
Loooool, enjoy your data caps while I have 500mbps down

I feel like this whole thread is a lost cause. If you like fighting games you like em and if ya don't ya don't.

>>382349059
>"No, you!"
So this is the legendary EU banter I've heard so much about. I'm not impressed.

>>382348928
Neutral is already the sate of being, footsies are something that happens inside of it.

This is like defining a jump in as neutral because it happens inside it

>>382349139
not sure why people who don't like fighting games have to justify themselves so badly. there's a million other genres for you to play, no need to casualize another

I don't get this at all. Maybe because everyone thinks they should be able to compete at the pro level after a month. Maybe because people don't realize how dumbed down street fighter 5 is compared to 4, and more so 3. Maybe I'm just getting old.