ITT: Unironically deep games that went over most peoples heads.

Dragon's Dogma, no contest.
>dude dragons lmao

>>382224423
>Dragons Dogma
>deep
what?

>>382224495
Guess it went over your head ;)

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>>382224310
>Dark Souls
>deep

I don't think Hotline Miami 1 and 2 were deep but they were definitely clever.
And speaking of which, although some would argue that HM2's gameplay got worse, I'd like to take the perspective that you're not playing as Jacket anymore. Jacket was a veteran,fighting lean mean killing machine. HM2 introduced different characters who weren't as viscous as he was or were his imposters.

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>>382224530

>>382224310
Super Mario Odyssey

>>382224817
Nigga it's not my fault if you couldn't see the MUH FREE WILL shit rammed down your throat every five seconds.

Dark Souls is not deep, it has an interesting lore I guess once you dig in it, but it's not deep.

>>382224942
It is though. But I think most of it was accidental.

>>382224730
They collectively pulled a guy in half.

>>382224984
How? Maybe it went over my head too, because I didn't care too much about the lore.

Dagoth Ur

>>382225084
What a grand and intoxicating innocence.

>>382225071
It has stuff about meaning, like "why are you bothering to do all this". Ultimately whatever you do only repeats the cycle. It basically comes down to "I'm doing this for the sake of doing it", i.e. for Fun.

>>382224310
>Dark Souls is deep
Are you developmentally disabled? Genuine question.

>>382225042
Jacket cuts russians in half easily.

>>382224942
It is though. I know liking DaS isn't allowed anymore as well as saying it's hard but contrarianism after a few doesn't change how the majority experienced the game during release.

Now there's guides to both the gameplay and the lore and everyone knows everything already or doesn't have to think for himself to figure shit out because it's easily availalbe. Of course it feels easy and shallow now.

>inb4 reddit, autism, shill, summer, [rest of the buzzwords]

>>382224730
Read the wiki, there's so many minute details that are really really easy to miss.

Hotline Miami isn't deep unless you're a brainlet. Even when compared with their video games, the game barely stands out for its artistic depth and merit.
HM2 is just a pretentious piece of shit.

Metal gear solid 2 about safe spaces and group forming on the internet

>>382224730
>HM 1&2 not deep
HM1&2 are more deep most games by far.
Considering the fact that Beard is dead the whole time and Jacket is just imagining him because he lost his best friend & you don't find this out until HM2. And also everyone dying and Richard being right about Jackets actions meaning nothing

Hm 2 is hot garbage

>>382225356
Do you not know the difference between "lore" and "philosophic depth"? Name one profound and thought-provoking thing in the entire Souls genre.

>>382225545
>>382225194

>>382224730
I think HM1 is a much better game because it allowed you to choose from more masks on all of the levels and because HM2's levels are more open making the gameplay less about skill and more about knowing where some off screen guys are so you can shoot them and keep your combo going.

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Hollow Knight.

>>382225497
WRONG

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>>382225456
>Hotline Miami isn't deep unless you're a brainlet.

>HM2 is just a pretentious piece of shit.

Dude what level could you not get past? Or were you confused by the story?

>>382225497
4U

>>382225545
Inevitability of fate
Difference between undeath anf immortality
Good gods/ evil gods
And the deepest lore
the PC apparently can't go hollow no matter how often he dies but his hollowing is actually congruent to you the player. If you give up and stop playing that's when your PC died one time too much and went hollow.
Yes I know, you already saw all that coming while looking at the game case.

>>382225570
You are right for the most part but HM2 is ment to be played right after 1. If you go into 2 thinking you don't need to play the first, oh man you are going to have a bad time. I love how unapologetic 2 is with its gameplay. You are supposed to look at rooms before hand and plan you actiona and adjust as needed, not run in and just react.

also HM2 was more about the story and sadly that put a limit on availability of mask's and tools.

Definitely, definitely Spec Ops: The Line. Most people who play it think it's just a regular dudebro military shooter, but it's actually a deeply metaphorical and poetic exploration of war-attributed trauma and one man's slow descent into madness. Unlike tripe like Call of Duty, etc., this game serves as a profound critique of violence, American imperialism, capitalism, and, ultimately, you the player. References to Konrad's "Heart of Darkness" fly over people's heads, (go figure) and the subtlety of the nuanced character development is lost on the brainless masses who just want to shoot brown people. I get chills everytime I play it. It's a profound experience that'll actually make you question yourself and the world around you.

>>382225356
>>382225567
>The world is cyclical
>You can either break the cycle or continue the cycle

What significance do you believe this has? What relation to the real world? Morale? Insight? It's like a first year philosophy student trying to shoehorn things he's read about into his story to make it seem meaningful and important.

>>382225721
>if you don't like it, you must suck at it xD
HM2 is incredibly pretentious, and it really failed to ape Pulp Fiction in a good way. There's nothing deep in it; there's no thought. Everything (story-wise) is presented to you in droning cutscenes while you're beat over the head with a bunch of nihilistic garbage. It all boils down to the following: nothing matters, violence perpetuates itself, and you should cling to your identity. While these ideas are hoary, they can be presented in a very interesting way which might offer new insight or perspective. As I said, they were not.

>>382226271
Signifikance is not important, nor is link to the real world.

You sound like a second year philosophy drop out who thinks he figured it all out btw

>>382226523
>Signifikance is not important, nor is link to the real world.
Then what is, lmao? You literally listed a plot element in attempt to prove that the game has philosophical depth. Read a book.

>>382226698
>reading comprehension

>>382226271
>What relation to the real world?
The fuck is wrong with you.

>>382226304
>it really failed to ape Pulp Fiction in a good way
I disagree, It explained almost everything and shed light on a lot of things.

>There's nothing deep in it; there's no thought.
I don't understand this. I really hope you weren't thinking of CoD world at war.

>a bunch of nihilistic garbage
it doesn't shove this down your throat though. Surely people dying doesn't count as nihilistic?

>It all boils down to the following: nothing matters, violence perpetuates itself, and you should cling to your identity.

Yes. But these are presented in a way that were though out and sound. i.e. The Son Living up to a dead legacy, The nuclear War and the nothing matters thing was not all true. Just what Jacket did. Richard was trying to warn him that he was going no where.

I really feel You just dislike the game for some other reason.

Unironically Spec Ops: The Line
>dude stop playing lmao
>hurr why is the game making fun of me
>i got told this is like undertale, why is it forcing me to make a bad choice?

>>382226304
>a bunch of nihilistic garbage
I will never understand those kinds of people who seem so repulsed at nihilism.

>>382227108
He set an arbitrary frame as to what makes a game/concept deep
He doesn't seem to be the brightest star in the skies.

>>382227403
He's probably the kinda guy who thinks philosophy's main purpose is to teach logic.

>>382226146
This is bait.
Spec ops was ironically deep

I don't think anyone refers to it as a dudebro military shooter. I think most people got the point that the protag was just trying to be a hero and when he failed he was oh well guess im the villain now.

>>382227403
I didn't set an arbitrary frame - I'm asking you (for the third time now), why you believe this plot element is deep or significant in any way, you absolute retard.

>>382227270
Undertale and spec ops are ironically deep.

Kane and Lynch 2

It's everything the faggot critics said about The Line and more.

>>382227610
>moving goal posts
>calling others retarded
You don't deserve an explanation

>>382224730
HM2 has too many areas where you can be shot by someone you literally can not see, even with shift-looking

In HM1 whenever I died I never felt like it was cheap or in any way bullshit, it was because either I planned wrong or didn't pay attention.
In HM2 half the time I died it was because I literally couldn't fucking see it coming.

>>382224310
>true ending is literally the devs telling you there is no deeper meaning

South Park: The Stick of Truth

>>382227758
Thanks for confirming that you have no clue.
Also:
>>moving goal posts
Are you completely braindead, anon?

>>382227828
I know man. Even I have a hard time figuring out the meaning of what they ment.

>>382227894
Honestly south park is like, medium depth.
They are really smart though.

>>382227610
Not him but I think his point wasn't about the concept of cycles themselves, but rather the intrinsic systems of values we as people place in our own arbtuary ideals, and what it means to shrug off apathy despite the inevitability of oblivion

>>382227186
>I disagree, It explained almost everything and shed light on a lot of things.
You don't seem to understand that I was primary objecting to the structure and method of the storytelling. If you're going to copy Tarantino, you better do a good job (spoiler: they didn't, and the game suffers for it). I'd also say they talked about way too much. A lot of the appeal in Hotline Miami lied with the vagueness of the world: you have the basic gist and some newspaper clippings, and that was perfect. 2 inundates you with background info and lore that's unnecessary or just poorly assembled.
>I don't understand this. I really hope you weren't thinking of CoD world at war.
I don't understand you, either. The ideas were tired, and they were presented in a way that was incredibly poor and anything but profound.
>it doesn't shove this down your throat
Yes it fucking does. Look at the guy with a cock mask who pops up in every other cutscene.
>But these are presented in a way that were though out and sound
No! As I said previously the storytelling method was both unoriginal and very haphazard, and not in a good way. I also would object to the idea of it being thought out: many characters (the Pig Butcher comes to mind) are killed off before reaching any meaningful conclusion. While that in itself can be considered a creative decision, I don't think these early deaths and certain open ends could be considered as anything but bad writing. Even the Son is guilty of this since he had no real development. Okay, he mirrored his father and rebuilt the legacy. What then? He fucking dies and nothing comes of it. The game just went about killing its characters in the quickest way possible, and nowhere is this more evident than in the fucking nuclear war they use to literally wipe the slate clean.
It's trite, it's poorly structured, and it's not thought provoking outside of the most basic definition. I think you're the one with the clouded vision here.

>>382228027
No but you are. I would explain but I don't think you would understand.
I'll give you one last hint:
>>382226271
Nothing you asked in this post relates to how deep a game is.

>>382224310
Demon's Souls
I like that you can completely ignore everything about the setting, story, and lore in favor of just killing things if you so choose.

>>382224310
I wouldn't say "deep" but I genuinely enjoyed the story and storytelling of both games.

>>382227370
It's less about repulsion and more about the purview of the philosophy. From my limited understanding of it, things usually start and end with "nothing matters, eat a dick." You have the existentialists and the like who try to convert one of nihilism's fundamental assertions (the meaninglessness of life) into something more constructive or thought provoking, and I can appreciate that. But nihilism in itself, unsurprisingly, offers nothing.

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There's something weird about NC, the universe intrigues me.

>>382228545
>From my limited understanding of it
Yes, that is a very limited understanding of it.
>something more constructive
dude construction lmao

Christ, when will you plebs learn that being right is more important than being constructively wrong.
>or thought provoking
How can a philosophy not be thought provoking.

>>382228253
>the intrinsic systems of values we as people place in our own arbtuary ideals
Which parts hint at this? This might be interesting, if true.
>what it means to shrug off apathy despite the inevitability of oblivion
Sure, that's implicit to the cyclical structure, I guess. However, I don't think the question is deep or profound in any way.

>>382228698
So please enlighten me with your sophisticated understanding of nihilism. Which authors would you refer me to? What essays? What movements? You also don't seem to understand: I'm objecting to (what I perceive as) nihilism's failure to capitalize on an interesting idea. That's just not my thing, and I'm not sure why you're so opposed to developing ideas more. I also never said it wasn't thought provoking. Although it is sometimes said that nihilism unravels itself, I was again objecting to the plainness of it all.

>>382227370
Nihilism is the ultimate millenial emo meme-philosophy.
>uuu everything sucks nothing matters. I claim that the human systems of value is pointless but I'll still feel anxiety ans whine over everything
Fuck off nihilists. No one even really believes this shit or else they'd just sit in their rooms and starve to death for all it really matters

>>382225194

kek, soulsfags are literally inserting """deep""" Bioshock:Infinite tier trash into their game in an effort to make it seem profound.

>>382229028
>developing an idea thats completely developed
unless you have something to add to 'nothing fucking matters the end.'

>>382224310
>it dumbasses who read beyond what is intended
You're all like retarded English majors putting words into authors' mouths

>>382229476
Now here's where the fundamental disagreement seems to arise: you think the idea has no room for expansion, analysis, and application, while I do. That, or you interpret it as a complete idea instead of an observation.

>HM
>deep
its LITERALLY mgs with the whole "you have to kill people and make war but killing people and making war is wrong and you should feel bad even though its the only choice"

>>382229663
alright - we'll go with the less memey interpretation. nihilism deals with the fact that although we understand that everything is finite, that everything comes to an end, that it 'doesnt matter what we do because the end result is the same'. in which case nihilism discusses the reasons why we choose to do what we do despite knowing the result. however, the thing is the deeper you go the more you just end up in the grey zone of existentialism, which wouldn't be nihilism anymore, would it? its much simpler to just sum it up as 'nothing fucking matters so go discuss existentialism instead to figure out why things matter', you don't have to find reason in everything.

>>382228971
>Which parts hint at this?
Have you played Souls? This theme is etched heavily into the mechanics of the setting and the story arcs every NPC goes through.
Using Siegmeyer as an example - he finds purpose in life through his identity as a heroic character. Thanks to the undead curse, what causes men to cease to be 'human' is the loss of motivation or purpose. By continually demonstrating failure as a heroic character, his identity begins to slowly unravel and soon he finds himself completely lost as a person. Sinking into depression, then complete apathy, he finally turns into a hollow shell of a man which is the point at which SIegmeyer (and men) TRULY dies.

The moral implications of these mechanics are ultimately that which people keep striving for is what makes people 'human'. The meaning of life is to give life meaning, essentially.

>Sure, that's implicit to the cyclical structure, I guess. However, I don't think the question is deep or profound in any way.
Nobody here is talking about the concept of cyclical stories apart from you.

>>382225680
NUMBER

>>382229970
I'd say that's a fair assessment which also embodies why I dislike the philosophy. I tend to interpret that avoidance of depth as more of an abdication than a matter of principle. I hope you understand where I'm coming from, and I'll try to adjust my stance from "nihilism is shit because it offers nothing" to "it offers something, just not in the way I like."

>>382228298
>If you're going to copy Tarantino, you better do a good job.
They did though. It tells a story out of order and from multiple point of views. And if you had played all of one character'(s) chapters back to back it really would have sucked. The story benefits from going to character to character.

>A lot of the appeal in Hotline Miami lied with the vagueness of the world
Agreed. HM2 was about filling in the gaps and ending the story though. Having exposition wasn't a bad thing. There was hardly any of it as well. I also bet hardly most people figured out Beards Story without looking at the wiki.

>The ideas were tired, and they were presented in a way that was incredibly poor and anything but profound.
Again wrong. The story of HM1&2 were presented fantastically.

>Look at the guy with a cock mask who pops up in every other cutscene.
He talks with the characters and try's to help them. Thats not nihilistic.

>the storytelling method was both unoriginal and very haphazard
No its not, the Pig bucher is the most meaningless character in them game except for the fact to show the player how the world views Jacket. I mean, his case isn't even finished and they are making a movie depicting him as a horrid murderer. (also you complain about The Sons story having no real development, but then bash the game for fleshing out the story?) The Sons story was about rebuilding what was taken from his family and when he finally did that he OD'd and died. Its even foreshadowed amazingly. (The random corps that is by the exit when you leave as The detective). Its also not about killing its characters as quickly as possible. Hell biker guy lives! People died because of a nuclear war brought on by 50 blessings. That whole thing took a back seat until the end. HM2 was about what came of Jackets actions and the whole nuke thing was awesome, I don't really see how killing your whole cast is trite but okay. It was very thought provoking for me.

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>>382230198
NINE

>>382230665
ok
check my 9

>>382230776
Anon is upside down.

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>>382230665

>>382230468
>They did though.
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree here. Tarantino does it right, but they didn't.
>HM2 was about filling in the gaps and ending the story though
This is one of the reasons why I dislike it. It's unnecessary.
>Having exposition wasn't a bad thing.
When it unravels or lowers the quality of the setting, I'd say that it is.
>There was hardly any of it as well.
Dude, you've got fifty different people obsessing with Jacket, a story about Jacket and beard, and incredibly long cutscenes to drive home details. Think about how many cutscenes there were in HM1, then compare that to 2.
>Again wrong. The story of HM1&2 were presented fantastically.
Again, we're agreeing to disagree here. HM1 presented things somewhat obliquely and it knew its place, and I said that was a good thing. HM2 does neither, and it suffers for it.
>He talks with the characters and try's to help them. Thats not nihilistic.
There's nothing to talk about if you think that's a refutation of nihilism.
> the Pig bucher is the most meaningless character in them game except for the fact to show the player how the world views Jacket.
No, not at all. The Pig Butcher has an enormous amount of potential since his story is among the most surreal and unusual. They waste that potential.
>also you complain about The Sons story having no real development, but then bash the game for fleshing out the story?
Yes. If you're going to do it, do it well. This is "checkmate atheists" tier thinking.
>Its also not about killing its characters as quickly as possible
Agree to disagree.
>Hell biker guy lives!
Shows up in the bar with the rest of the dead guys. Take that as you will.
> the whole nuke thing was awesome
Yeah I can't discuss this. We'll never reach anything resembling agreement. I'm out.

Fucking nihilists, man.
I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.

All I know about nihilism I learnt from Queen.

>>382224310
Hotline Miami was a parody of 2deep4u games and Hotline Miami 2 was a parody of Hotline Miami

>>382231362
>Tarantino does it right, but they didn't.
Again They did amazing trying to emulate Pulp Fiction and didn't do anything less than amazing.
(h8ful 8 sucked dick btw)

>This is one of the reasons why I dislike it. It's unnecessary.
A lot of things are but what would be the point of not fleshing the cast and the world out when this is the last chapter of hotline?

>When it unravels or lowers the quality of the setting, I'd say that it is.
It didn't do that though. You can't tell me beards exposition wasn't amazing.

>Think about how many cutscenes there were in HM1, then compare that to 2.
HM2 was the ending chapter. Adding in 15 sec of reading hear and there is not a big deal. Also the game is longer and has longer levels and a bigger cast. If Richter had no development you would complain about it, but instead you complain about the very thing that add to characters. A lot of what we learn about jacket comes form Exposition and cutscenes. i.e Hospital scene and him confronting Richter.

>There's nothing to talk about if you think that's a refutation of nihilism.
Telling people they are going no where trying to get them off the path of damnation is nihilism apparently.

>The Pig Butcher has an enormous amount of potential
he is literally just a actor who dies on accident.

>This is "checkmate atheists" tier thinking.
No its not. You say one thing, then complain about that very thing.

>>382232557
Just like MGS2 was a parody of Sequels?

>>382224730
I presume only beard, jake, jacket and the fans are the only vets right?

>>382233675
Beard, Jacket and The Fans are vets. Jake is confused for the guy with the scarf in the hawaii flashbacks, but he's just a russian-hating redneck.

>>382224423
fpbp, dat Inn's man speech about humanity

>>382230156
Interesting read, anon, thanks.
>Nobody here is talking about the concept of cyclical stories apart from you.
That's the original statement I was responding to: >>382225194

>>382234107
Ah I see
I thought him walking into 50blessings saying that most of us have military experience was him implying that he had experience aswell

The games that /v/ considers deep makes me want to vomit puddles of blood. Games are still written on the level of saturday morning cartoons and the best among them blatantly rip their narratives from sources outside of the medium, there is no depth in things like Nier, Dark Souls, or MGS.

>>382235343
I agree except I must mention the simple fact that everything rips off everything that came before so that specific criticism holds no water. Apart from that I agree with you.

>>382224310
is hotline miami 1 worth pirating?

>>382235947
Worth playing, just pirate if you can't afford the $1 it should be going for nowadays.

>>382224310
define "deep" first before you reply to everything with
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAH *breffs* AHAHAH

>>382224310
>Dark Souls
>deep

lol

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>>382224310

>>382224310
What in Nier went over people's heads?