Does anyone else get sometimes overwhelmed when they see complicated

>>382198827
no.

stop being a pussy. you are enabling streamlining and casual gaming.

>>382198827
No. I can understand not wanting to have to go balls deep into mechanics just to make a game more enjoyable. Though really most 'RPG' games these days have really simple mechanics now. Anything based on DnD tends to have crazy shit. Also your picture just looks crazy but it's mostly just passives and that chart would sink pretty easily if you took them out.

Do you think there will be some more drastic changes to the passive tree in 3.0? I would like that, it's looking too familiar at this point.

>>382198827

Par for the course, you are alone.

>>382199045
The only difficult thing about the PoE tree is figuring out which keystones are actually helpful to you, the most efficient way to get to them, and the most optimal passives to get outside those keystones. I don't know if it changed since I last played, but it became really boring and cookie cutter because every build was based around 1 or 2 keystones and every other point was dedicated to bumping health and resists.

>>382198827
No

It only interests me more when I see complicated mechanics.

Then again I have never really played dwarf fort for more than 5 minutes. I enjoy building a pretty base and don't think it's possible when the game looks like that. Tried graphic mods but they never do it justice.

That chart actually looks fucking amazing. Is that like a sphere grid for ARPGs? What game?

>>382198827
That system is not complicated, just large. When I see that sort of system I just kind of say "fuck" out loud and worry about the rest of the game.

>>382199006
Not really. I play deep games. I just sometimesneee a break.

>>382199646

Path of Exile. Most of them are passives.

I've always wondered what would happen if, instead of removing game mechanics and calculations to streamline a game, you just made certain values and metrics invisible.

ideally it would make it more attractive to go 'with your gut' when building your character but with everything still there, just under the surface. minmaxing and meta would come, of course, but it would take longer to be fully fleshed out.

what do you think?

>Game pretends to offer freedom
>Really just forces you to look up a guide online so you don't horribly fuck something up
Instantly drop any game that does this shit.

>>382198827

What you posted is an example of "illusion of depth".

There are like only 5 paths that are efficient to take in PoE, across 99% of builds. The amount of individual tweaking and experimenting that goes on in almost zero, since the 'best possible path' is already predetermined by simple math.

>>382199426
>>382199669
>>382200136
Nah, the system is pretty complicated. "Is this pathing correct?", "Are these 8% nodes better than a jewel slot?", "Will these nodes even be effective in my build?". There's a lot to optimize; that's what's complex about it.

If it wasn't complicated people wouldn't use tools like Path of Building to compare and plan builds.

But hey, jerk yourselves off more, since you're super smart.

>>382200257
>But hey, jerk yourselves off more, since you're super smart.

sounds like what you're doing

min maxing on a spreadsheet isn't deep game mechanics, it's just tedious trash. passive tree is shit.

>>382200513
If you say so.

>>382199920
That could work. I can never allow myself to just make choices without thinking about it.

>>382199920

that's what they tried to do with poise in dark souls 3

everyone got pissed

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>>382198827
>Does anyone else get sometimes overwhelmed when they see complicated game mechanics?
No, because I'm not retarded and I can actually read and because creating different character builds relying on different mechanics is fun.

Hidden game mechanics that complicate things without explaining the player what they're doing are a whole different issue, though. I hate that shit.

>>382198827

PoE's skill-tree is scary the first time you look at it but it's not as much of a casual filter as you would expect.

If you really are total shit, just go to the forums - they have sections, for each class, with like a dozen valid builds per patch.

>>382199976
There's no point in having freedom if everything you choose leads you to a god-tier character, that would make the game incredibly shallow.

A good game has these mechanics

A great game slowly gives them to you over time.

Thats what made shit like D2 and Vanilla WOW so great, getting a skill point every level and figuring out what to do with it was fantastic.

And then once you figure everything out you can master the game by min-maxing.

Shit games just automatically min-max you, which just leaves you bored

>>382200841
What is this game

>>382200257
>If it wasn't complicated people wouldn't use tools like Path of Building to compare and plan builds.

You mean when autists spend 12 hours obsessing over a spreadsheet to see if he can squeeze .5% more dps or 1% more defense out of his cheese build? Yes, I agree that happens, but is almost never necessary.

I facetank and farm shaper and uber lab with less than 2ex worth of gear. Meanwhile those same autists spend hundreds of hours, and 200ex+ to do the same thing on a different build but slightly faster, after discussing it in a committee.

They go out of the way to make the game complicated for themselves, and it isn't admirable or indicative of actual depth.

>>382198827
Jeeze that's an old version of the tree. Haven't seen that in a long long time.

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>>382201047
Mordheim: City of the Damned. It's the SRPG with mechanical and tactical depth to end all SRPGs.

>>382200873

Is that why Diablo 2 was one of the least popular games of all time while in it's prime and Path of Exile has soooo much popularity right now?

>>382200873
Glad you agree that Path to Exile is shitty.

>>382200841
It's not that I don't understand the mechanics. It's just that I want to be able to play without thinking sometimes.

>>382201047

Mordheim. Like a really shitty cross between Valkyria Chronicles and XCOM is the best way I can explain it.

RNG: The Game

Sometimes but generally only when its about managing like 20 different things at once all unloaded on you at the same time and I usually just drudge through fucking shit up till I understand
PoE is a bad example though since its not complicated its just BIG

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>>382201379
>It's just that I want to be able to play without thinking sometimes.
Play a different genre then.

>>382201386
>RNG: The Game
>I lack basic risk management skills so I'll just call it RNG
Git gud, shitter.

>>382198827
>RPG
>skilltree
>doesn't tell you how viable something is, can easily fuck over a build and experimenting is out of the question
>no respec system and the community throws a fucking temper tantrum if you bring it up because it "reduces investment"

>>382200834
interesting. thanks.

>>382201624
my one problem with mordheim was it felt like such a slog in the beginning. never had a real feeling of progression. just grinding... s l o w l y.

>>382198827
Yo i 100% agree with and understand you. Its an overwhelming thing to see menu upon meny in games like this when it has basically the same gameplay as gauntlet. It is completely unneccesary clutter.

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I've tried 4X's a few times where I'd put several hours into them then get shit stomped by the enemy AI on 'normal'.

When I started playing RTS's online for the first time I'd find out pretty damn quick how fast I'm not making units. In 4X's I feel like I can be fugging up for hours on end.

I wish I weren't so stupid to get into them. I've seen a friend come over and plow through Civ and I own Endless Legend but I'm too much a puss.

>>382201439
I hate tutorials, but I especially hate complicated ass games with exceptionally brief tutorials. I forgot which game it was, but there was an RPG with a morale mechanic that was just never fucking explained in game. You had to read about it online and it was a tricky ass mechanic that would dictate what classes you could make your dudes or which ending you would get. To make matters worse, the way to influence this morality stat wasn't done through dialogue choices or gameplay decisions. It was done by which character killed what.

Wish I could remember what game it was, but I remember being real fired up when I got the bad end on my first playthrough because I had no idea what the fuck the morale mechanic was.

>>382198827
I just pick shit at random until you get a better understanding of the game, then start over once I'm able to make more informed decisions.

And then I get even further in the game and realize my informed decisions were short sighted and I'm worse off than my first attempt.

>>382201783
>GGG has said from start they want builds to be permanent
>you experiment with the game by re-rolling new characters
>re-speccing is easy once you are high enough level and have some currency

All I'm hearing is a shitter who can't farm enough to buy regrets.

>>382201624
>play a different genre
I should probably take this advice. But sometimes I feel like it goes from mindless to crazy and no in between.
>>382202065
Yeah it gets frustrating when the core gameplay is fun but it feels like the options just get in the way.

>>382200841
>i'm so smart and special xD
Kill yourself

>>382202072
There's a reason why RTS is dead: it's a shitty genre that marginalizes interactivity to create the illusion of complexity.

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>>382198827
>start getting deep into this
>realize that being a stronk earthquake build meant throwing shit tons of points into life

Silly ass tree but new acts could be cool. They just need animation updates fucking hard; they are retarded bad.

>>382202162
>farm to experiment
Nah.

This genres for idiots who can't find an easier way to wait to die.

>>382201989
>my one problem with mordheim was it felt like such a slog in the beginning
The game starts really slow and the early parts can get really fucking nasty when you're trying to learn the ropes, this is true. Mordheim is the kind of game that isn't even worth playing if you're not planning on ivesting at least some 200 hours into and even by then you won't complete every faction cmapaign.

> just grinding
This is objectively wrong. The game offers you story missions at a very fast pace and you can take them whenever you want. The "problem" is that people tend to get scared of these missions, because there's no reloading (game is ironman only), and they postpone them as much as they can while trying to grind as much as they can to prepare for them. The problem here lies with the player, not the game: if you're good, you can complete every faction campaign very fast.

>>382202117
>The Last Remnant
>Final boss has 15+ different forms that have different HP, Skills and damage
>takes one to fight you based on the amount of quests you've finished.
>Finishing them all leads to an almost unwinnable fight because his skills outmatch anything you try and do
>Grinding is actively discouraged by the game, so you're stuck
>Game has 10 other fucking mechanics for combat that it barely tells you about
What the fuck was that game, jesus christ. It's not the one you're thinking of, but still.

>>382202194
TA was complex as fuck and that game was a starcraft contemporary. rts as a genre is dead because developers stopped making complex games.

>>382202162
>buy regrets.

This is another problem with PoE

You have to trade to be viable

I play these games solo

>>382201301
So the game is actually good, right? I really like the setting and premise of the tabletop Mordheim but as a game it's probably the most unbalanced turd GW has ever shat out (and that's really saying something). I was worried that the devs of the PC game would be too faithful to the original.

>>382202375
you don't have to do shit. It's simply easier to get high end gear. You can player the game perfectly fine doing SSF like I do, all you need to know is how to make a decent build.

>>382202375
Then play Diablo 3, barney fag.

>>382198827

Sometimes.

I'm usually good at sticking with RPGs if there's complicated mechanics, but certain simulation games have put me off. X3 seemed like it'd be everything that I could've wanted from a space sim game, but all the mechanics and the fact that the 12 new player guide videos were about 20 or so minutes each have put me off from buying it.

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>>382202531

Seeing the tree I said "fuck me if I'm doing this shit on my own" and straight-up googled builds.

Was a fun way to learn the game but wow, do I ever need to spec the shit out of life (for my playstyle).

Absolutely. Usually when I get a bit burnt out on more indepth games I'll just shit up some SHUMPs and more arcadey-highscore games.

>>382198827
I simply don't want to do multiple playthrough just to figure out a fucking world tree of skills.
I also don't want to just read about the best possible skillage.
Ergo I just don't play games like PoE. Fuck it.

>>382202292
i've probably put something like 50 or so hours into mordheim. i love the mechanics, the setting -- all that shit it's just draining to play. i'm pretty much gonzo after three missions in a row which is what i meant by the grind feeling. i know in my head i'm not really grinding, but it feels like a grind if that makes sense.

>>382198827
If any of you didnt get a slight hard on when you first saw PoE's skill tree i want you to declare to the world how massive of a pleb and a filthy casual you are and then immediately kill yourself.

>>382202728
That's the best way to start off in PoE imo. Look up a meta build, get to endgame with it (probably dying a few times), then start experimenting with the mechanics now that you know all of the essential knowledge and bosses. Eventually you get to a stage where you can reliably get to level 70 within a week with a new build

>>382202523
>So the game is actually good, right?
Depends on your definition of "good" when it comes to the SRPG genre. Do you want in-depth faction campaigns with charismatic characters and lots of meaningful choices&consequences? Then the game is not for you, because the faction campaigns are nicely designed, difficult, but very short (in theory, in practice it takes an average player a lot of time to beat the missions because of how hard they are).

Do you like in-depth mechanical (not cosmetic) character customization and character building? Do you like to create various builds on the basis of a single character archetype? Then the game is for you.

Do you like challenge? Do you play ironman in any SRPG that allows it? Do you value tactical depth that results from the functional variety of character build possibilities the game offers? Then the game is definitely for you.

Regarding balance, I'm not entirely sure. Most of the factions are pretty well balanced, even the vampires with their retardedly overpowered leaders and heroes, since their henchmen are utter dogshit.

OveralL, I think the game is good, yes.

>>382202781
>i'm pretty much gonzo after three missions in a row which is what i meant by the grind feeling.
That's because the game is forced ironman only and an unlucky crit can turn even your most hardened veteran into a cripple at a moment's notice. Being scared for your character's well being is probably why you feel that, which, by the way, is something I feel too. I usually play like 3-4 missions per day max as well.

>>382202736
Yep. That's what I should do.

>>382202362
If complexity is what people want, then why did everybody move onto Dota?

>>382202917

that's basically how most people get started
copy builds, make "improvements to them", realize why those "improvements" were shit and try a new build (or later on, actually do make improvements to the build and clear Atziri for the first time)............then years later clear Shaper, Uber Atziri, and get a Mirror of Kalandra within the first week of a new league with a build that cost under 10 ex

>>382198827
PoE's passive skill tree isn't complicated, it's just bloated.

>>382202337
>>Grinding is actively discouraged by the game, so you're stuck

Was fixed in the pc version, also as long you keep upgrading your weapons the game is manageable.

Wiki is only needed to get to know the fucking monster spawns and how to complete guild requests.

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>>382198827
Is this game worth learning?
That skill tree looks S I C K but i don't want to get into it for nothing.
If not, recommend me something similar. Preferably not mmoshit but I'll still take it.

>>382200841
This is literal autism.

You can have complexity without the need for a fucking screen dump like this.

>>382204310
Just play Diablo 3 like any sane people do. PoE is trash for contrarian shit-eaters, the game lacks basic quality of life functions like automated trading while being completely trade dependent, since the drop rates on anything good are so low, you will never find any good gear that you will actually use yourself.

>>382204310
If you don't mind the gameplay being just spamming a single skill then sure go ahead.

>>382203397
>If complexity is what people want

They don't anon.

Complexity is what INTELLIGENT people want. And most people aren't intelligent.

>>382203119
it's good but definitely not for everyone. i'm an srpg slut though, so i had to play it. cautiously hype for phoenix point too.

>>382203397
i think dota just appeals to a wider group of people. you don't need a good computer to run it. you only control one unit. there is no base-building and so on. when you say, "everybody moved" to dota it's a bit of a misnomer because we're talking about two different audiences. rts fans still exist outside of dota. those people are just waiting for a new game worth playing to come out. whether that game ever gets made or not remains to be seen.

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>>382204434
>Diablo
wew

>>382204487
k then

>>382204402
I would rather have a screen dump like this, which is actually called by the player on demand and can be turned off, than have hidden modifiers in a game where the success of character actions depends on their stats. When I fail, I want to see what caused my downfall, I want to see what influences the success rates of my actions, so that I would be able to learn from my mistakes.

>>382204567
Yeah despite what it looks like, you still just get some self buffs and maybe a skill that debuffs enemies, then everything rest is toward buffing one skill as much as possible. A shame really.

>>382198827
You're not referring to anything actually complicated, you're just getting information overload thrown at you.

>>382204618
Well alright then, I get it.

Still, it's pretty ugly presentation.

no
im not a filthy kasul

>>382198827
Nope, I just roll with what seems like a good choice and try to make best of it. As I get hang of how the mechanics work I begin trying to emphasize on what seem to be the strongest synergies and options, sometimes even restarting character/save. But this is great fun.

>>382204434
good bait
made me reply

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>>382198827
Game?
I tried googling the only words that looked like they might lead me somewhere, but "doom cast" only gave me Dwayne Johnson

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>>382205183
Path of Exile

Also wtf?

>>382205170
So PoE is not completely trade based while at the same time offering an absolutely horrendous trading experience even to "people", who buy their stash tab bullshit, let alone those who don't? People rely on third party trading websites to do ANY trading in the game, because it takes way too long to do so via in-game means.

I've always known PoE players are shit-eaters, but now I've also learned that they're lying pieces of shit as well.

>>382199976
>forces you to look up a guide online
Chris comes up to your place and points a gun to head yelling so that you look up a guide?

>so you don't horribly fuck something up
God forbid newbies fucking up at a game that they know nothing of yet.

>>382202117
This sounds like Ogre Battle. The game that actively punished you for using your stronger units. Oh, your best dude accidentally killed a lower level enemy? Guess he's never ranking up into anything useful ever again.

>>382205484
It's more like the community shits on you for not playing meta, not knowing how a fight goes, and so on. Noticeably more prevalent in MMOs.

>>382198827
>complicated
>not lazy af devs who cant make skill tree worth investing in

>>382198827
It's real simple:

If you want to play a simple game play a simple game, but if you want to play a game that has the potential for more immersion and/or reward and satisfaction but that also requires more mental energy and learning more complex mechanics than play something that has all that shit and don't try to change it. The problem starts when assholes want everything to be simple and streamlined and to be catered to in their own narrow minded sense of what a video game should be. There will never be a shortage of simple, fun, easy to pick up games so please stop insisting that more complex games or games with steep learning curves need to be dumbed-down.

>>382204310
The skill tree is sick in the not positive meaning of the word. Like someone already said in this thread, the actual gameplay is equivalent to Gauntlet, and all the skill tree adds to that is the possibility of achieving autistic hardon by adding another 0.3% hp by optimizing another node path.

In addition to the big, scary looking and impotent skill tree, there's skill gems and socketing. Which at first looks and sounds real nice. Until you realize 98% of the gems are unusable trash, and what you're aiming at is using one skill with as many support gems glued into it as possible, just to achieve what other games like D3 have as baseline skills.

So is it worth it? Maybe, if minmaxing, grinding, and dealing with the mouthbreathers in trade chat are your things. They certainly weren't mine.

>>382205395
the third party site that's used for legal trading is now integrated into the game

i wish there had been an actual in game auction house but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be

>>382206190
Do you have to min-max? Or can you just play normally.

>>382206078
Problem is PoE's actual gameplay is as simple and streamlined as can be. It has less interactibility than Angry Birds. The only learning curve it has is finding out the majority of customization options it has are traps by design, something that was terrible in eighties pen and paper role playing games and is still equally terrible today. Cutting out the skill tree entirely would not change the game one bit.

>>382206536
>Or can you just play normally.
There is no "play normally" in PoE. You HAVE to make efficient, borderline minmaxed builds and trade intensively to get anywhere on higher difficulties.

>>382198827
I get excited instead.

>>382206536
Depends. You can utterly fail with a character build so that at some point your progress will come to a halt. You can make an okay build that can clear all the content even though it might take more time, nerves and preparation. And you can also make an amazing build that shits on everything (except reflect), clears zones in a matter of couple minuts, facetanks bosses, etc.

>>382198827
Yes but as the game gets bigger the more excited I get.

>start playing tales of symphonia again
>remember all the little things it has
>trying to remember the combos for U-attacks
>just keep doing pow-hammer + tiger blade

HELP

>>382206536
Playing "normally" means you end up with a character that can't clear Act 3 normal. If you don't mind restarting from scratch every time you fuck up like that, then go for it

>>382206779
It's normal though to fail when you know no shit about the game yet.

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>>382198827
>doom cast
lord thats an old tree

>>382206779
I probably should elaborate here. Unable to clear Act 3 normal is what happened to my first character. Started as a witch. Figured it'd be kind of like Diablo 2 necromancer. Focused on summoned undead doing my fighting for me, putting everything into having more and stronger zombies and skeletons which even exploded on death. This was fun.
Then I ran into fast enemy zombies that had shield-ignoring area damage auras. I didn't have enough raw HP to deal with a single one of them running past my horde of summoned critters and standing near me for four seconds, nevermind it actually hitting me. And the game dumped packs of thirty at me.

>>382206809
I kind of half agree there. Getting your character killed because you didn't know what you're doing is a-ok. Having your character end up being completely unusable, and having to start over from scratch, because of something you couldn't have known without looking up guides beforehand, is not my idea of fun. If you like it, that's ok, just means our tastes do not match.

>>382199690
So then go play cod or something

>>382199784
They are actually all passives

>>382199920
It works. In DotA there were bugs and engine limitations, that were not explained in character abilities. This made the game mechanic really deep, and some of the limitationsvwere transferred into Dota 2 as intended features.

>>382198827
One hundred percent. I pretty much never play any strategy or tactical game, and RPGs only rarely. The few times I did were some of my favorite games like Planescape and Fallout 1, but I haven't had much desire to go beyond that, though I also loved certain FPS RPGs like Deus Ex and E.Y.E. I mostly play old FPSs and arcade like action games.
That said, I'm getting an itch to expand my tastes, so I picked up some old-school RPGs like Ultima 4-7 and Shadowrun Dragonfall. But thanks for making this thread. It's nice to not feel alone.

>>382198827
>Am I alone here?
No, you are the majority. There is a reason games are being made more retard proof and dumbed down and you are just a tiny, miniscule part of the stupidity machine wearing down vidya.

I get overwhelmed when there is too much going on, so overwhelmed that it makes me drop the game. BioShock: infinite's ending for example

This thread is making me realise that most people are stupid. And that stupidity stems not from lack of knowledge or wisdom, but a systematic lack of being able to process and solve information.

Anon here >>382208434 simply doesn't attempt to understand something when the information is complex. Like, it's understandable that you can't understand literally everything, but dropping a game because you can't understand something makes me wonder...

>>382209305
No, you're mistaking lack of engagement with lack of intellect.

I looked at the picture in the OP and thought "Wow is that fucking complicated". Not deep, or complex. Just complicated. You could present the same system in a much more approachable way and have the same result but people wouldn't be nerdgasming about how deep it is. Really it's not, it's just buffing some passives and does it in a super complicated way to simulate depth.

>>382209305
I'm talking about the constant curaazy action that is going on the screen that is overwhelming, and the piss poor gameplay didn't help either you dip.

>>382209467
It's not only about choosing the right passives but also choosing the better pathing. That's the point of such an intricate and complicated tree.

>>382209467
Reminds me of the FFX sphere grid that looked extremely complelling but ended up being almost entirely linear passive crap

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>>382209710
reminder that the expert grid isn't really that linear, but yes the basic one is very linear.

>>382198827
>see complicated game mechanics
They are almost always surface level complicated though.

>>382198827
>poe skill tree
>complicated
ayy

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>Game about making builds
>Every build uses one spell

>>382198827
poe isnt complicated in the least

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Complex character creators that let you change small facial features and such drive me insane and I always just go with the original face because I know I'll sit there for 2 hours making the fucker only to get a few hours into the game and not like the face.

>>382201138
this exactly
>got back into poe as been a while and havnt played act 4 the specilization stuff and the maps/shaper thing.
>start a witch with fireball because fuck yeah why not and play with mate who uses some forum build on ranger class
>get good dmg but kinda easy to kill
>mate and I rolling around reking stuff
>he cant take many bosses of maps past lvl72 without getting 1 shot
>he gets frustrated as he needs some super rare items for his build to be viable
>im just fucking around with items i find and changing my play style for as its fun

But then we decided to stop playing until the new acts are released and just go with the flow

>>382198827
It's a perfectly understandable and normal feeling nowadays, OP.
Too much freedom of choice may often leave one wondering if they've made the "correct" decision.
https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/03/30/is-too-much-freedom-of-choice-a-problem/24820.html

>>382211626
Though in games specific criteria for juding the correctness of decision taken are present more often than not. If we're talking about current PoE then the criteria are from most easy to most difficult:
1) Can you clear Normal difficulty without dying much?
2) Can you clear Cruel without dying much?
3) Can you clear Merciless?
4) Can you do the majority (or even better all) combinations of affixes for white maps?
5) Can you do the majority (or all) combinations of affixes for yellow maps?
6) Can you kill Atziri, Uber Izaro and Breach Lords?
7) Can you do the majority (or all) combinations of affixes for red maps?
8) Can you kill Uber Atziri and Shaper?

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Is this "too complicated" for your tiny brain? You wouldn't make it past the tutorial

>>382212012
From beta testers, you can break Grimoire and make characters with 100% in all resistances and be immortal.

>>382201783
Nigger, your experimentation comes from how your character currently feels as your playing.
>Man it feels like Im a little too squishy
Get more life for your next few levels
>Im not dealing enough damage here
Get more damage
The poe skill tree is the most brain dead thing ever. You just have to prioritize what your character is currently lacking while going after keystone's you feel that you want. You can't fuck up hard enough that you can't clear white maps, and at that point you can then easily farm enough regrets to fix what you need to

>>382212012
This looks pretty damn interesting. But character building alone won't make the game for me. The game should also enforce correct buildmaking and prevent the player from breaking itself. A good RPG system is more often than not gets invalidated by legit savescumming option present, this most often being the case with western games.

>>382212092
You mean the 5 year old beta? Don't make me laugh

>>382212246
Yeah the 5 year old beta, but apparently all they've really done was added more content, puzzles and fixed bugs, but the 100% resistances isn't a bug it's just due to the way that stats and shit work so it will probably still be available.

>>382199006
nothing wrong with being able to enjoy the game w/o clunky menus

>>382210517
Not every build uses only one spell but every build uses at least one spell/attack, flasks and movement skill.

>>382199006
fpwbf

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The Path of Exile skilltree is honestly pretty easy to manage once you've got some experience with it. If it's a life build for example you want to make sure that you got at least 180% life on the tree at lvl 90. Then you grab whatever damage nodes fit your build while pathing towards any key nodes that you might need.

If you're a melee build on the left side of the tree you're also investing in endurance orbs. Crit builds grabs power charge nodes and crit. Frenzy orbs are a great grab for most builds since they have a more damage multiplier on them. Flask nodes are among the most powerful nodes in the game due to how powerful the effects of flasks are.

Once you've factored these things into planning the kind of build you want there is rarely much space left for other points to allocate. You might end up with 10-15 skillpoints at most that could be consider flavour options depending on what build you're playing. At that point it's not very hard to decide what to allocate them on though. You grab whatever is nearby that happen to seem strong for your build.

>>382199646
Path of Exile connects all the class skill trees together in a circular pattern.

>>382198827
I feel the same way. I'm especially wary about games that have a lot to them but offer almost nothing in terms of explanations of how things work.

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>millions of options in making a build
>most skills are useless/don't actually work/would only work once in a blue moon during certain circumstances

>>382198827
complicated is fine, my gripe's for those that looked super complicated but in reality only a small few options are viable.

>>382215034

Yeah, thats pretty terrible.

'depth' is such a retarded meme

completely meaningless, yet evoked every 5 seconds.

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Eh. No not really. But some genres are definitely too complicated than I'm willing to dedicate attention and time towards.

>RTS
>Grand Strategy Games

I just don't know what I'm doing.

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>Does anyone else get sometimes overwhelmed when they see complicated game mechanics?

>I like rpgs, but sometimes I just want to enjoy a game without having worry about choices. Am I alone here?

This is a bait thread. if you've ever un-ironically had these thoughts EVER in your mind, kill yourself. (Not implying that there aren't things such as overly complex un-inintuitive mechanics/systems in vidya), but if you see choice and automatically worry, get the fuck out of here, end your life on your way out as well you miserable beta cuck, top fucking kek if anyone is unironically replying to this thread right now.

>>382210517
Not in D3 :^)

>>382199920
I've always wondered why there weren't more aRPGs that utilized this. You can have 'cinematic' combat or whatever that feels satisfying and fun to watch but still relies on dice rolls and stats to determine what happens.

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>A fucking sphere grid overwhelms you

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>>382200136
Maybe if you only play popular cookie-cutter builds and never try to make anything of your own.

Even across "pre-made" community builds there are generally several different viable paths depending on your gear, preference, and level target.

If you tried to optimize a new build from scratch, even one utilizing a very common combination of gems and gear, you would find you have plenty of different options with different trade-offs.

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>>382198827
Don't worry pal, I have a game just for you!

No choices? Just play this and enjoy button mashing!

kys

>>382201138
>I facetank and farm shaper and uber lab with less than 2ex worth of gear.

k, what build

>>382202375
Tell that to all the people playing Solo Self-Found leagues.

>>382216629
t. depthlet

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>>382219990
>game about using different spells
>item set tells you which ones to use
8^D

>>382220961

HoWA Bladeflurry Raider i think...

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>>382198827
If I don't have a lot of choice in how I interact with shit and how I build my character's skills and abilities, I feel like I'm being treated like a retard.
If you want a cinematic experience that leads you through a tunnel play some cod campaign or something and stop shitting up rpgs.

>>382221246
you can use whatever the fuck skills you want and make it work

>>382221985
As a result of D3 being a vapid arcade game compared to true ARPGs, including its predecessor.

>>382199976
nah, it's more like

>Game pretends to offer freedom
>it's so unbalanced every build archetype ends up following the exact same path

>>382198827
Can't see the problem really. You have devs that made games for people like you like Bethesda.

>>382222269
I agree with that. Some of the older RPGs are suffering from it as well.
>Look at all that numbers! You can roleplay anybody you want!
>Make sure it is is a small guns-focused diplomat with boosted AG though, unless you like you games boring, tedious, borderline beatable through savescumming or exploits and lacking huge chunks of content.
i am using Fallout as an example, yes.
>inb4 casull
No. I beat classic Fallouts many times and i like them a lot, but their game modules simply lack options for the roleplaying systems the games offer.

I have a love hate relationship with more complex skill trees, character stats and the like. Especially if they offer different playstyles.
If it's bland I hate it and wish for more customization.
If it's complex as fuck I almost immediately cave in and go look up guides.
If it offers different playstyles, I do my own thing until I realize this one minor change to my character would be badass. So I restart the game. Then I realize something would be even better, so here is a new character. And then I get bored of this playstyle and start something completely different. Shit, I started dozens of new games on Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and never progressed much into the game.

>>382222842
you clearly don't know what you're talking about though.

>>382198827
You are the reason why games suck these days. Go back to play Nintentiddy games with 2 buttons. 1: Jump, 2: Shoot. Just kill yourself.

And posting an image of linear fucking progression where you select points. What makes this so damn "complicated"? Is your IQ less than 70?