>"it has the best gameplay of the series" >it

That isn't Demon's Souls.

Now personally I like the game despite its flaws, but if you had to pick one thing it is objectively the worst at, it's NPCs. There isn't a single remarkable one in the entire game and there's about a hundred of them. The emerald herald is offensively bad compared to every other level up girl especially.

>>382179532
It also has the worst art style and level design

>>382179532
Warping back to majula to level up was really bad for immersion.

>>382179747
BEAR SEEK SEEK LEST

>>382179649
The game is pretty ugly, yeah, but it isn't much worse than DaS in that respect. I think this stings more because before the downgrade it looked really nice for the time.

Level design is bad too, although the three DLC areas are all really good except for that one area we won't mention boosting the score there.

>>382179532

The gameplay is also objectively the worst

It has better pvp than das 1, which ultimately consisted of abusing the backstab mechanic repeatedly. At least in 2 people actually use most or all of a weapon move set.

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>>382178925
Literally the only problem with this game is lazy level design in the first half and Soul Memory. Everything else is great.

Why are soulsfags so quick to forgive all the problems of DS1 and DS3 but they can't over this.

Does it have to do with a certain hack who wasn't involved in this game?

>>382180595
They fixed backstabs but also fucked poise. The breakpoint system in 2 makes even heavy armour useless against 2 handed basic weapons.

Any remotely creative build gets shut down by rapier/katana spam.

>>382180215
Have you played DeS within the last 5 years or so? It's good, but nah DaS2 is better gameplay wise.

>>382178925
Soul memory and how floaty everything is, if it wasn't floaty I would have enjoyed it more.

>It's the best Dark Souls of the series
>/v/ wants to force that it's not because they can't play videogames

Stop

>>382180985

every time i go a while without playing dark souls 2 I start to think "it's probably not really as bad as I think it is, I should give it a replay" and then I play it and it's always somehow even worse

>>382181529

it's contrarian fags like you that make me keep wanting to retry this game only to remember it really is the worst souls game

>>382180132
>but it isn't much worse than DaS in that respect

Shut the fuck up and go actually look at the texturing and art direction. Dark Souls 1 is a superior product, not even from a subjective point of view, it's just better. That's absolutely abysmal for a game later in the series.

>>382178925
The combat is such an improvement over DaS it's not even funny. Maybe not in vanilla but definitely in SoTFS

>rolls have zero input lag
>can roll in any direction during lock-on
>instant attacking out of rolls
>attacking costs way less stamina
>backsteps have i-frames and are a TRUE alternative to rolling for less stamina cost
>parries cost more stamina
>backstabs are harder but obviously lagstabs are the same

>all weapons have useful movesets and combos
>dual-wielding and special moves on powerstance

>>382181703
>I don't like something so it's bad

Gen Z spotted.

>>382181529
It's bad.
They took the already slow gameplay of Souls and slowed it down to annoying degrees. The weapons lack the weight of the rest of the series. Even turning around is fucking floaty. Not being able to cancel cooldown animations makes fighting groups a massive pain in the ass in a series where fighting groups of enemies is already kind of annoying.
The level design sucks and enemy encounter placement is bad. There are way too many groups of elite enemies that just turn into waiting games. Most of the bosses have extremely similar movesets with slight variations and bland design.
The NPCs are boring and their storylines are all shit inc omparison to the rest of the games.
Even the DLC isn't as great as everyone says it is. The first DLC is still shit for the same reasons the base game was, and while the other two are better they still have problems: there's still way too many enemies and bosses with same-y movesets and encounter design still isn't great.
It does have the best pvp but dark souls pvp is garbage

>>382182779
>dark souls pvp is garbage
This is correct.

>>382182779
Dark Souls 2 is much faster than DaS

>>382182691
Most of that stuff truly shines on PvP, but that would imply that shitters who complain about the game could even PvP any decently to actually find out how amazing the gameplay was.

>>382183402
No.
Dark Souls 2 is significantly slower than every other game in the series. Both you and the enemies attack much slower. It also has a slower roll speed, slower item speeds, and to top it all off you can't cancel cooldown animations which makes everything feel even more sluggish.
Seriously, play them both back to back. The difference is honestly staggering.

>>382182691
>>rolls have zero input lag
controller problem
>>can roll in any direction during lock-on
false because the game is programmed with deadzones
>>instant attacking out of rolls
not a mechanical improvement
>>attacking costs way less stamina
not a mechanical improvement
>>backsteps have i-frames and are a TRUE alternative to rolling for less stamina cost
I'll give you this one on the face of it but this also absolutely broke PvP
>>parries cost more stamina
not a mechanical improvement
>>all weapons have useful movesets and combos
wrong
>>dual-wielding and special moves on powerstance
awful idea

>>382182746
>deflecting to gen z

t. millennial assmad at how bad his generation is

>backstep is actually useful
>poise isn't broken as fuck like in DS1 or useless like in DS3
>parrying is riskier and harder to do
>no hornet ring 1 shot bullshit
>backstab animation doesnt make you invincible
>you can choose how you want to fight some bosses(mytha in poison pool, BIK all knights, fume knight all idols, etc.)
>weapon damage types make a huge difference
>spells don't require a ton of investment to be useful

Soul memory and ADP are about the only shitty things about the game. Most people complain its bad because they're shit at it and complain about requiring ADP even though its easy to level up. Or they complain about Iron Keep and getting swarmed when you can deal with swarms easily if you're not stupid about it. And then you get the "muh world consistency" argument with earthen peak / iron keep when DS1 did the exact same shit with dukes archives but nobody cares because DS1 is flawless except "half the game is shit".

>>382184001
Actually most people dislike DS2 because of the terrible level design, terrible enemy/boss design, uglier graphics, and overall worse gameplay despite the "improvements" DS2 apologists always bring up.
It's mostly the awful level design though.

>>382184001
>>poise isn't broken as fuck like in DS1 or useless like in DS3
Instead it's both
>>parrying is riskier and harder to do
No it's not.
>>no hornet ring 1 shot bullshit
There's a ton of 1 shot backstab/parry weapons in the game
>>backstab animation doesnt make you invincible
yes it does
>>you can choose how you want to fight some bosses(mytha in poison pool, BIK all knights, fume knight all idols, etc.)
you can do this in most souls games retard
>>weapon damage types make a huge difference
are you implying this is unique or even true in das2?
>>spells don't require a ton of investment to be useful
this is a bad thing

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>>382183581
>controller problem

I played both on the same controller. Sorry but without the benefit of PC mods DaS doesn't play better than DaS2.

>false because the game is programmed with deadzones
This has nothing to do with DaS having only 4-way rolling during lock-on and DaS2 fixing this with omni-directional rolling.

>not a mechanical improvement
Rewarding aggressive play is absolutely a mechanical improvement, PvE or otherwise.

>wrong
nice argument

>awful idea
Said no one, ever.

>>382181921
The textures in both games were fucking awful. Dark Souls 1 just concealed it better with darker environments and more effort in world modelling as opposed to just square rooms in 2.

>>382184249
>>spells don't require a ton of investment to be useful
>this is a bad thing
For PVP maybe, it's just really boring that for a build where you can use wrath of the gods and wield a great hammer in dark souls 3 you need to level at least 60 levels, this makes PVE a super grind fest. But PVP is epic right?

>>382184314
>I played both on the same controller. Sorry but without the benefit of PC mods DaS doesn't play better than DaS2.
it does though, I'm not sure why you feel the need to lie about this
>This has nothing to do with DaS having only 4-way rolling during lock-on and DaS2 fixing this with omni-directional rolling.
it means that the "omni-directional" rolling of das2 is a white lie 2babby
>Rewarding aggressive play is absolutely a mechanical improvement, PvE or otherwise.
firstly it doesn't reward aggressive play, secondly that is not necessarily a mechanical improvement, learn to think for yourself
>nice argument
nice argument
>Said no one, ever.
said anyone who isn't a normie who started with das2

leave this place 2babby

>>382184249
Yeah you haven't played DS2 for more than an hour when you have no idea what you're talking about, retard.

>>382184570
>This has nothing to do with DaS having only 4-way rolling during lock-on and DaS2 fixing this with omni-directional rolling.
>it means that the "omni-directional" rolling of das2 is a white lie 2babby

No... it, literally means Dark Souls 2 has more directions to roll in during lock-on.

>>382184314
>DaS2
>Rewarding aggressive play
DaS2 actually discourages aggressive play more than any game in the series thanks to a few things. Fast roll is dead and gone, your heal isn't instant but a quick regen effect, most animations are slower, you're constantly faced with massive groups of enemies, and you can't cancel the cooldown of your animations. All of this combined means that being aggressive will actually jsut get you killed; DaS2 is all about baiting enemies and waiting for the right moment. Which is fucking great in a game that constantly makes you fight multiple strong enemies with desynchronized movements. DaS2 is easily the most defensive based/patient game in the series.

>>382184529
you can do this at sl43 in das3, got anything else to pull out of your ass?

>>382184735
Except it doesn't 2babby

what it says on the tin =/= what it actually is

in reality the dead zones limit it to the same directional rolling of the previous game

it's a shame the programming is so fucking bad, you almost had an actual point here.

>>382184885
And get one shoted by the bosses while not being able to swing your weapon and fat rolling? Take a deprived build for example, try leveling it up to being able to use the morne's greathammer and still having a balanced build.

>>382184001
>poise isn't broken as fuck like in DS1 or useless like in DS3
It's useless, even more so than DS3 because less hyperarmor.
>parrying is riskier and harder to do
And proven to be literally impossible to reaction parry online. Even the buckler's active frames are too few to account for the slightest latency.
>backstab animation doesnt make you invincible
It does.

Others I agree on.

>>382185149
>fat rolling

you won't be unless you're a retard wearing heavy armour

>getting one shotted

you won't be unless you're a retard fat rolling, even if you're just truly awful at the game, a whole 10 extra levels won't matter, especially considering the game gives you five free ones anyway just for people like you who don't know how to plan a build properly :^)

>starting with deprived

you won't be unless you're a retard who doesn't understand how the game works

you can easily create a build wielding morne's hammer+WotG prior to the abyss watchers fight and you don't even FIND WotG until the profaned capital so your entire complaint is literally pointless because you'll definitely have more than enough by then.

>>382185347
DS2 let you poise through a few attacks if you stacked enough of it, but not like everything like in DS1.

Thats due to shit netcode and p2p. Setup parry is still a thing. And whiffing a parry gets you killed and its not instant like in DS1/DS3; you have to hard read your opponent hence why DS1 babbys get so asshurt when they can't parry cheese.

When you start a backstab you are susceptible to damage, but you won't get staggered.

>>382185869
>Thats due to shit netcode and p2p. Setup parry is still a thing. And whiffing a parry gets you killed and its not instant like in DS1/DS3; you have to hard read your opponent hence why DS1 babbys get so asshurt when they can't parry cheese.

meanwhile in reality:

>literally everyone in das2 used a buckler/parrying shield in their off hand
>meanwhile pvp in 2 was entirely focused around spacing

pull the other one das2babby

>>382178925
>it actually has the worst
It actually has the best, you're just a retarded cultist with shit for brains, sorry.

>>382184819
>DaS2 actually discourages aggressive play more than any game in the series thanks to a few things
>Fast roll is dead and gone

Actually it's there and it's so incredibly fast you don't even have to worry about i-frames to begin with.

>most animations are slower

No, R1s just slow down after two swings on most weapons and to chain more attacks you need to go R1 R1 R2 R2 R2 and so on. Greatly decreased stamina cost for 1h attacks helps this a lot.

>you're constantly faced with massive groups of enemies

Just like in Undead Burg, and Darkroot Garden, and Blighttown, and Catacombs, and Anor Londo....

Since when has the series ever gone easy on you with enemy mobs.

>and you can't cancel the cooldown of your animations

Pretty sure you can't 'cancel' out of any attack in souls games, unless you're referring to DaS2 having longer cooldowns.

>>382184982
It sounds like you seriously haven't played Dark Souls 2 at all recently

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>>382180985
>Literally the only problem with this game is lazy level design in the first half and Soul Memory. >Everything else is great.

actually, the worst problems of DaS2 are the hitboxes (both player and enemies), and everything being sluggish

>>382178925
>He plays dark souls for the casuak pve experience

Everybody laugh at this cuck

>>382186043
it sounds like you haven't played either game contrarian

>Dark Souls 2 is my first Souls game, I like it, but over time it has become my most hated game

What's wrong?

I replayed Dark Souls 2 recently. Most of the base game is OK. There are a few really, really shitty zones. 80% of my deaths were falling down infinite pits, which is negative fun. The DLC bosses were mostly garbage due to tiny counter windows and dealing 90% max health per hit, along with multi-minute runs to get back.

>>382186375
How am I being a contrarian if I played both games on the same console literally one day ago.

>>382186564
is this where you pretend to not understand the accusation or do you just not speak english?

actually it could be the second one, wouldn't surprise me to learn that all 2babbies are Brazilian

>>382186043
>Actually it's there and it's so incredibly fast you don't even have to worry about i-frames to begin with.
DaS2 doesn't have a fast roll. It has a default roll and a fat roll. The default roll is slower than fast rolling in other games. It's not about i-frames; it's about the animation length.
>No, R1s just slow down after two swings on most weapons and to chain more attacks you need to go R1 R1 R2 R2 R2 and so on. Greatly decreased stamina cost for 1h attacks helps this a lot.
No anon, the animations themselves are just generally slower.
>Just like in Undead Burg, and Darkroot Garden, and Blighttown, and Catacombs, and Anor Londo....
The major difference is most of the time in the other games you're either faced with groups of trash mob enemies or the bigger groups can be pulled apart. In DaS2, generally whole groups of big enemies aggro at the same time, so you can't pick them apart. Yes, there are still some annoying group fights in the rest of the series, but nothing even remotely as bad as 2.
>Pretty sure you can't 'cancel' out of any attack in souls games, unless you're referring to DaS2 having longer cooldowns.
Here's a fun experiment!
Load up literally any other Souls game. Do a light attack with any weapon. Then, after the animation is done, try it again, then hold L1 with a shield equipped. Next, do the same thing in Dark Souls 2. That's what we call cancelling, friend. Notice how the cooldown doesn't even play in the other games, but you have to sit through the whole damn thing before your shield comes up in 2.
It really sounds like you haven't played the games directly in comparison to each other.

>>382186035
>IT ACKSTUALLY HAZ DA BEST
>Provides no counter points
Purge yourself, All the other soulsborne games have better hitboxes, character and level design, as well as fluid controls.

At least try when you use your shit tier opinions

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>>382185869
>DS2 let you poise through a few attacks if you stacked enough of it

Depends on the attack. Breakpoints are an instant stun and the values are seriously unbalanced in favour of fast dex weapons. To put pic related into perspective a player wearing full Havel's can be poise-broken by a single 2 handed attack from any spear, katana or straight sword in the game.

As someone who likes playing heavy weapon builds it's my biggest gripe with the game. There's practically nothing you can do against R1 spam.

I can play the game with friends over, pop bonfire ascetics, clear any level I want and pass the controller and talk shit about what they pick and how they play. The other games don't offer that. 1 is decent about it, and 3 is the most linear of them all.

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>>382186704
>DaS2 doesn't have a fast roll. It has a default roll and a fat roll. The default roll is slower than fast rolling in other games. It's not about i-frames; it's about the animation length.

It has multiple fast rolls. 40% fast roll, 30% fast roll, 20% and under roll. Mid roll is technically 50%, and 60% is like slow roll because it really has less distance than the other games. 70% and over is burdened roll.

It has more roll speed variation that any other game in the series but it's not indicated as well as in DaS.

They all greatly increase rolling distance and speed and most enemies just can't hit you period at 30% because of the sheer speed and distance.

>The major difference is most of the time in the other games you're either faced with groups of trash mob enemies or the bigger groups can be pulled apart. In DaS2, generally whole groups of big enemies aggro at the same time, so you can't pick them apart.

You don't have to pull them apart at all. Enemies can't attack through walls in DaS2 and you can just lock them at chokepoints where they won't attack if you stand at the corner.

I mean, I guess I would prefer if they didn't aggro at once but then I would take that as the game holding back on me. Why the fuck would they wait politely for their comrades to die.

>Load up literally any other Souls game. Do a light attack with any weapon. Then, after the animation is done, try it again, then hold L1 with a shield equipped. Next, do the same thing in Dark Souls 2. That's what we call cancelling, friend. Notice how the cooldown doesn't even play in the other games, but you have to sit through the whole damn thing before your shield comes up in 2.
>then hold L1 with a shield equipped
>shield equipped
>shield

I don't play souls games with a shield.

>It really sounds like you haven't played the games directly in comparison to each other.

I'm just not a scrub that plays with a shield.

II is miles better than III. And I used to think II was fucking trash.

>>382187840
>It has multiple fast rolls. 40% fast roll, 30% fast roll, 20% and under roll. Mid roll is technically 50%, and 60% is like slow roll because it really has less distance than the other games. 70% and over is burdened roll.
That all have the same animation? The only difference is length, minus the fat rolls obviously. There are two roll animations as opposed to the 3~4 in the other games.
>I don't play souls games with a shield
Rolls cancel cooldown animations too stupid. The shield is just the easiest way to see the effect, since you can hold L1 directly after your press R1 and your character will raise their shield the first frame they can. In any non-DaS2 game, it's right after the active frames, but in 2, it's after you put the weapon back in its idle stance. You can mash roll to see it too but it's less accurate of a measurement.

>>382187840
>le shield is bad meme

start your posts with that next time so I don't waste time reading the rest of your garbage

>>382188481
overpowered in pvp if you turtle like a fag, useless in pve when you can just dodge and deal more damage instead.

>>382188481
Well I don't need to humor turtlefag arguments, clearly. What a waste

>>382188631
you trying to claim shields aren't useful at LEAST situational in PVE completely discredits you

>>382188746
I never talked about PVP whatsoever

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>>382188631
>Dark Souls PvP is so shitty that the simple act of blocking is considered overpowered
And some people play these games solely for the multiplayer

>>382182779
Not to mention all the baffling changes to the healing system.

In 1 and 3, healing is basically a resource management game. You have a number of Estus charges, signifying the amount of mistakes you can make.

2 reintroduces one of the worst things from DeS by implementing consumable healing items. But it does it worse, because they're so cheap and ubiquitous that it trivializes taking damage. Just pop one or several lifegems, who cares, you probably have 99 in your inventory.

Oh, so don't use Lifegems. Well, you can't, because they decided to make them fast to use, while Estus so slow that your character has to stand still for roughly a week each time you wanna use them, making them useless during battle. You can reduce this delay slightly if you toss a lot of levels into a stat! A whole stat for using an item just a little faster (and a bit more iframes on rolling)!

DS2 is fucking shit, truly the DMC2 of this series.

>>382188870
Don't forget that Estus changed from an instantaneous health refill to a regeneration effect so it takes even longer to heal.
Because waiting around and making every fight tedious as hell = difficulty. The hardest part about DaS2 is resisting the urge to try and sneak in hits to make fights end faster because you're bored of waiting around all day

>bosses
>art style
>soundtrack
>world design
>level design
>animations


B-team Counterfeit Goods

>>382188860
it's because the kick/guard break animation is longer than the dropping shield animation, players who abuse it are actually quite good

simply holding your shield up against anyone competent will get you killed straight away

>>382178925
So this is today's dark souls 2 bait thread?

>>382189178
The real problem with Dark Souls PvP is it's a combat system clearly designed for single player play. The defensive options are all incredibly powerful compared to the offensive options so Dark Souls PvP match-ups all end up being people rolling around like idiots all day. A lot of people talk about builds in DaS 2 but it doesn't fucking matter when every match feels the same no matter what build you have. The only exciting part is magic but even that is pretty spammy in the end and is beaten by, you guessed it, rolling around a bunch.

>>382179532
It was pretty interesting watching Lucatiel slowly become Hollow, and Gilligan was pretty cool. Also the beef between Pate and the other guy, then I later heard from Cale that the guy I helped kill Pate was a serial killer and felt bad about it.

3 definitely has the worst characters

>>382189421
Seigward, Hawkwood, Anri, Greyrat, Unbreakable Patches, Gael, etc, each of them alone is a better character with more going on for them than the entire cast of DS2.

Only Lucatiel and maybe the Herald have any sort of development in 2. Everyone is else is just... there.

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>>382189129
>characters

>>382189417
>it's a combat system clearly designed for single player play
that's true.

I think miyazaki always intended for invasions to be a cool side mechanic to enhance pve and tie in with universe lore, not the huge meta-driven duelling community that players created. I mean the pvp is fun but not surprising how broken it is

>>382190392
I always find the best dark souls PvP experiences I have are when it's not just straight duels, but when I do goofy things or the invader does too. Like using the enviornment in unexpected ways or playing around with camouflage/other weird spells or using the seeds of the giants. It's way better when it's not just boring fights; there are a million better games to play if I wanted a good honest PvP experience.

>>382190375
>The blacksmith and his daughter literally never interact despite sitting feet apart
Some of the stupidest shit in the entire game