>steams refund system has cost Rust 4 Million Dollars why

>>382156906
its ok normally we have 14 days in the EU to refund

>>382156906
The only people that hate refunds are kikes and shovelware devs.

It's okay because it provides an option for consumers to get their money back for this trash game.

>>382156906
>Cost them

Didn't cost them anything.
329,970 people bought it
+$4,382,032
329,970 people refunding
-$4,382,032
Net loss: $0

>>382156906
kys garry

>>382156906
It's been in early access for 4 years now. Who wouldn't refund?

>>382156906
lol Rust is the only game I've ever gotten a refund for

>>382157192
Actually they lose in fees and shit. Valve also loses faith in the developer. It's in indeed very costly. Not to mention the emotional toll.

>>382157473
Don't make shit games.

>>382157473
That can all be solved by not making a shitty perpetual early access game. If that number is a high percentage of their sales, that's their own fault.

>>382156906
proud to be one of the refunds

what a piece of shit game

>toxic git gud community
>spend hours trying to scrap up a decent shelter just to be mowed down by some gangs
>glitched physics out the ass
>no actual point other than survive
>the chat

>game shits on, and preaches down to its player base
>players don't put up with that shit

Wow what a terrible thing to do.

>>382157473
Maybe they should make better games then. Look at all that money that can go to different companies that can make games better.

Shit sucked after they redid it 2bh

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>>382157801
>toxic git gud community

>>382157826
>tfw this represents less than 6% of sales
so much for that argument

It's early access isn't it? This faggot is going to love the amount of refunds he gets when it releases.

Survival memeshit deserves to get refunded to bankruptcy.

waiting for this to leave EA so I can cash in my refund as well

>>382156906
you're kidding right?

consumers have a right to refund bad games

personally i believe rust is badly optimised and i wish i could refund but i have over 2 hours playtime

its a fair compromise

>>382158004
Hi Garry. How's facepunch?

Isn't this the game that decides your character's look for you and ties it to your Steam account?

>>382157473
>emotional toll

that poor shovelware peddler's feelings

>>382156906
>people are refunding early access garbage
WOW SURPRISE SURPRISE
Also, they should just remove this early access shit from the store then.

>>382157473
>emotional toll
Wew lad
If you make a product to sell it, you have to be prepared for criticism, however unfair, and for the fact that some people will definitely not like it, and can ask for their money back within certain limitations

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>>382157473
>emotional toll

I didn't refund it this steam sale, but I tried it out a year back and found the game to play and run like shit. Eventually got it in a humble bundle and it is not much better.

Maybe if you don't create shit and leave it in early access for years, maybe people won't refund it!

>>382156906
>remove refunds
>sell 500,000 less copies because people don't want to buy early access crap if the sales are final

It's like free samples of physical goods. Sure, you lose money on each free sample, but they might bring more clients.

>>382157192
>Net loss: $0
You are retarded

329,970 people bought it
+$4,382,032
-30% ($1,314,610)
= $3,067,422

329,970 people refunding
-$3,067,422
+10% ($306,742.20)
= -$3,374,164.20

Total loss = 3,067,422 - 3,374,164.2 = -$306,742.20

>>382157801

Maybe you should actually git gud then, faggot.

Maybe if they made a good game

>generic indie early access survival sandbox crafting game that locked character creator is a huge steaming pile of shit

wow, whoever could've guessed that would happen
he should just feel thankful that Rust was one of the earlier games in this shitty fad genre, or else he wouldn't have gotten ANY money for it since it would've just been another FOTM that sunk or swam depending on whether or not PEWDS ran a LP of it that week.

>>382158318
Too bad they didn't lose more.

>>382157473
>Valve losing faith in Garry
Not gonna happen.

>>382158171
>someone read the rest of the twitter thread in the OP
>must be a shill!
https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/880154963334365185
I laugh every time.
>>382158206
the reason they don't is that this represents a normal rate of refunds.

>>382156906
The truth: if it was a good game it wouldn't be refunded a lot.

>>382158318
>+10%
??

>>382158318
That is not how it works though you absolute retard.

>>382158542
The fee retard

>>382158448
more like the false

oh cool we can refund rust now?

If you can't make a game that's worth playing for 2 hours then you don't deserve the cash.

>>382158004
>spic detected
Opinion discarded.
As for Rust well, that's what you get for inviting goons to be the "villain" in your game and giving them console spawned high end gear. Anyone working with any online group like that deserves to fail.

>>382156906
>buy game
>"this is crap"
>have a refund!
>"thanks"

as opposed to:
>buy game
>"this is crap"
>"haha too bad sucker!"
>Well now I hate your guts, I'll never buy another of your games ever.
>and/or risk making a Derek Smart crusader against your game.

The only loser is steam since they lost some bandwidth.

can i buy it right now so i can refund it?

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>>382158590
What fee you fat foot sniffer?

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>>382158251
I tried to refund mine and they obviously didn't accept my request.
After years of development the game still runs like garbage and it's of bugs and glitches.
$20 down the drain.

>>382158706
no opinion in the post you quoted, only fact.

>>382158759
The fee Steam demands for handling the refund. It's retarded, but that's how it is.

t. game dev

>>382158189
Yes. It's also the game that changed up core gameplay structures multiple times.

Also,
>330k refunds
>5,510k owners
>618k players in the past two weeks
Refunds are good for them because it lets people sample their shit at no risk and most don't refund, probably because they spent more than 2 hours getting gunned down on beaches and banging rocks against trees trying to figure out what to do.

>>382158671
There's nothing wrong with making a narrative game that is only 2 hours long, unless you try to sell it for an AAA tier price.

>>382156906
Shouldn't have forced people to play as a nigger and/or female.

maybe if the faggot actually made a functioning game instead of some meme twitchbait garbage that's been early access for 4 years then people wouldn't drop it in 2 hours and refund it en masse.

>>382158746
but also steam kind of wins by not having their clientele lose faith in the platform

>>382158004
if it's less than 6% of the sales then what the fuck is the problem here?

>>382158339
No need. Already refunded that piece of shit and it wound up being in a humble bundle anyways LOL

Seriously one of the best games on Steam with friends.

>>382156906
>Kids watch random streaming having super "fun" with shitty unpolished game
>They buy it
>Realize it's actually shit and ask for a refund

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>there are people vehemently against holding developers to a higher standard when making games

>>382157801
>>toxic git gud community
Stopped reading there.

>>382158753
really activates my almonds

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>>382156906

I wonder whether [[[Garry]]] is going to show us his units sold so we can see what a whiny baby he is.

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>>382157473
>emotional toll

This is a legitimate reason in neogaf and some parts of reddit

>>382156906
Did they start allowing refunds to happen all of a sudden or is this just over all refunds that over the last 4 years or something?

>>382158812
>implying toxic communities aren't cancer with your maymay arrows
Nigger.

I am waiting for all my early access games to release so I can refund them after playign them for many hours

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>people act like refunds are new despite them having been a thing since fucking forever
>suddenly a shitload of butthurt now that it can be done with videogames
absolutely disgusting

>>382159097
>4 years
The refund system isn't even that old, you retard.

>>382159223
it's only a 2 hour limit
don't be a fag

>>382156906
Rust is the epitome of Twitch trash, it's the game I instantly think about when I see another early access survival game. One of the rare games I've tried that can't be redeemed by playing with friends. If I didn't get it from Humble Bundle I would have refunded that shit in a flash.

>>382156906
>4million they wouldnt have gotten if they put out a trial or demo
i dont see the issue

>>382158929
that's literally what I was asking
anyone who actually checked out the twitter thread the OP is quoting from would know that.

Garry was just laying out some insight into what it looks like behind the scenes. He goes on to talk more about it, and also says how he is appreciative of the refund system

>>382156906
I fucking wish I could refund this piece of trash. It's been in early access for 4 years! It has a fucking microtransaction shop in a non-F2P, unfinished game. I can't believe this shit is even legal. I got it removed from my Steam account without a refund because it was a fucking stain on my library. Can't believe I let some normie meme me into paying for it.

>>382157473
don't make a product people will want to refund you stupid cunt

make a good game
that's it
END OF STORY

>>382157473
>Valve also loses faith in the developer
yeah I bet Valve cares so much about shit like that when they literally let 0 effort rpg makers on steam

>>382156906
Buggy forever early access trash open world sandcastle kicking simulator. It has no good points why not refund it?

>>382156906
I'm surprised that many people are still buying the game

>>382159315
I've played tons of hours of early DayZ. I am abusing the shit out of the refund system once it exits Early Access. Fuck Rocket and the rest of them.

i've been buying and refunding Rust on a script for about a year now. AMA

>>382159063
he isn't whining, probably just thought it was a neat figure

>>382159449
What's it like being the poster child for autism speaks

>>382159449
why

>>382159332

I'd say Battlegrounds or whatever is the essence of Twitch trash. Rust is pretty bad, though. Shitty sandbox-kicking sim that doesn't even have good gunplay, and redditniggers want to use CSGO as a model.

>>382156906
>buy game
>play under 2 hours
>realize it's shit
>refund
Why the fuck should they give money if it's shit?

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>>382156906
What did it actually release or something? Is it possible to refund this?
Honestly I tried my best to have fun but it's so shit

>>382159449
>>382159573
>>382159624
Samefag

>>382156906
so companies enjoy having 300k+ displeased customers badmouthing their game rather than 300k+ refunders who were given their fundamental right to a refund on a purchase in the US of A?

Rust was almost fun and compelling. Then you just get steamrolled by cancerous retards playing in groups of 10, often while you aren't even playing. The fundamental model just doesn't work.

>>382158318
except it is valve who covers the extra costs.

>>382159635
but battlegrounds is fun

> 6% of total sales
well buu huu

>>382159737
How the fuck do any of those posts make you think samefag you stupid nigger

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>>382159731
>did it actually release
Sweet summer child, this shit will forever be in early access.

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Makes me wonder when is Gaben is going to go full faggot and end refunds

>>382159824
is this the first time you've seen someone hold a completely nonsensical opinion that fundamentally misunderstands something that is actually good for them in the good ol' US of A?

>>382156906
maybe don't make shitty meme games and people won't feel compelled to refund them? Just a thought

>7 billion people on Earth
>only 5 million bought Rust
>6.9 billion people didn't buy a copy
>game is normally twenty bucks

WOW, PEOPLE NOT BUYING IT COST THE DEVS LIKE $130 BILLION

>>382160081
They were mandated to incorporate refunds because of an EU court.

>>382156906
>Rust is fucking awful and promotes itself with misrepresantion and empty promises, wasting the money of half a million unsatisfied customers
Why the fuck is this ok?
Answer. It's not and Steam agreed. Deal with it.

Well garry should make a better game

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>Speaking to Newman, he says that this equates to around 6% of total game sales, which is in line to refund stats of other developers he’s talked to.
> The most cited reason for refunding Rust is “not fun”, which is the same for Gmod.

>Newman says this reason is “understandable really”, given the game’s harshness and how its mechanics aren’t easy to learn.
>Essentially, it’s just people trying the game and bouncing off it, but there are clearly many more who try it and find it clicks for them.
>Rust has sold over 5.5 million units, after all.

>“I put that down to people using the refund system as a demo,” Newman tells me.
>“I think in the long run, people knowing the refund system is there probably gained us more sales than it lost us.”

>>382159285
Yeah but when they launched the refund system they had a period of allowed refunds from the "backlog" if you will

>>382160114
Is it bad that I'm not surprised in the least by this? I wish aliens would come end our miserable existence.

Maybe they should rely on their game being good, and something people would want to keep. These indie devs trick people out of money, stating people are obligated to pay them to "try" their game. If people don't want to play your game after trying it out, then too fucking bad boo-hoo.

What are the differences between early access refunding and regular refunding?

>>382156906
good. this fuckhead should lose as much money as possible

Where does it say you can refund an early access title when it fully releases? I keep hearing this, but can't find anything on it.

>>382157192
>he thinks it doesn't cost anything

you're a fucking child who doesn't understand businesses. I bet you also think your $60 when you buy a game all goes to developer as well.

>>382156906
>That one friend who plays rust a shitton and the rest make fun of him
>He convinced us all to try it once, we played it for a few days and hated it.

Good times making fun of that friend.

>>382156906
And 5.5 million people didnt refund.

Now tell me how many millions they made....

>>382157801
>spend hours trying to scrap up a decent shelter just to be mowed down by some gangs
Spot the troll. If you spent hours trying to scrap a decent shelter as you said, you'd be over the 2 hours limit, hence couldn't refund the game.

>>382160389
It happened with Killing Floor 2.
>>358097574 is the only source I've got for you

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>>382157473
>Not to mention the emotional toll.

Oh fucking grow up.

>>382160540
what's he playing these days?

>>382156906
You realize they made at least 55,000,000USD after the refunds right? Even if somehow these retarded numbers of 3-4 million USD because of refund fees does occur, they made 51,000,000USD.

Why are big indie devs such fucking fags just because the people in their friend circles/professional sphere are getting almost always getting justifiably rekt through refunds because those developers make shit games? His argument is terrible, and he's just trying to appease to his indie faggot friends who make 2D crap or 3D walking simulators.

>>382156906
>3.5M sales
>330K refunds
>~3.2M sold and kept units, at least until the end of EA, that is

Having 3+million units sold and only <10% refunds is tremendously successful especially for an unfinished game sold on promises, and if you are somehow of the conviction that you are entitled to complain or berate in place of a dev who knows that he has no right or reason to to do either, you deserve every single endearing nickname from the cornucopia of insults 4chan has to offer you.

>>382160315
This period was for games bought in the last month only, you mongoloid. Stop babbling shit.

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>played more than 2 hours
>haven't touched the game in months
>can't get a refund
>will never leave alpha
Maybe if they just say fuck it and move out of beta like Ark did I can try to refund it, I don't know why I bother buying these shitty fotm games

Being able to refund something you're not happy with is completly normal where I live. Something like 2 weeks no questions asked. Are Americans not allowed to do this shit?

>>382160263
>“I think in the long run, people knowing the refund system is there probably gained us more sales than it lost us.”
so why the fuck is he complaining then

>>382160758
It was a while ago so I don't really remember. Why you gotta be so hard-worded, though?
I think some people claimed they got refunds for older shit when they tried it.

>>382160793
Where is he complaining you fucking /pol/ shitposting retard

>>382160729
He's still playing Rust

LOL

>>382160791
We can refund pretty much anything non perishable

>>382160630
Thank you anon. But who the hell gets hurt in this? Valve loses money? Or the dev?

>>382160793
Where is he complaining? You're only assuming he is because of the 140 character limited tweet.

>Make shit game
>People refund shit game
>WHAT THE FUCK WHY ARE PEOPLE REFUNDING MY SHIT GAME?

>>382160930
That game looks like it'd be fun for fifteen minutes. No wonder garry is mad.

Stick to running your shitty forum garry.

>>382160951
Then why do retards keep acting like refunds are a completly new and crazy concept?

>>382160742
how is he being a fag?
he's supportive of the refund system.

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>>382161006
kaka

>>382161071
>garry is mad
where

>>382161006
I definitely wouldn't say Rust is a shit game, it just makes the very common mistake of assuming gamers aren't generally really bad, opportunistic people. A good multiplayer game needs to restrict what people can do as much as humanly possible.

>>382161084
Indieshit devs can see their game's value (or lack thereof) in real time

>>382156906
AHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA OPEN WORLD "MUH RESOURCE COLLECTING" SHITTERS BTFO

>>382156906
like i give a fuck, they can suck a dick (probably they already do)

>>382161071
It's fun for a bit, but then you realize if you wanna do good and have fun, you have to login to secure your shit constantly.

Skill is hardly rewarded, its mostly time invested, and to add salt to injury everything is reset every 2 weeks. You're playing a game that is awarding amount you put in, then resetting it. The only enjoyment he has is ruining peoples days, which after a while isn't really all that fun to me.

>>382158759
Valve charges a fee to handle refunds that supposedly goes to paying their tech support people and other shit involved in processing the refund.

>>382160889
where has anyone mentioned /pol/ aside from you shitposting retard
>>382160987
>posts screencaps to twitter to show the world how much money he is losing from people refunding the game
if the shoe fits

Rust Truly Is The Minecraft Killer

>>382156906
>those refunds only represent 6% of the sales
that motherfucker is still making more money than you'll ever see in 100 lifetimes

>>382156906
Get fucked Garry.

>>382160630
holy shit lmao BTFO kf2.. hope this trend continues with the other EA titles

>>382161246
>I definitely wouldn't say Rust is a shit game
>full of technical problems and shit servers
>brazilians and 12 year olds everywhere doing whatever they please
>b-but it isn't bad, guise

>>382156906
>entitled to money
modern "devs" are scum

>>382161496
I mentioned /pol/ because you're so stupid that you quoted a post of Newman not complaining... and asking why he was complaining. Only people from /pol/ are that unintelligent. I am 100% certain you're from there, go the fuck back retard.

>>>/pol/

>>382161246

Indeed. For every one person who might want to build something, there's at least 10 players who only bought the game exclusively to run around and smash the shit people built. Apparently the dipshit Garry actually empowered those people by command console spawning gear for the Goonsquad to use? I guess there's a lesson somewhere in there, that instead of spending all day making a sweet sandcastle just to have some jackoff come by and wreck it in a minute, you should've spent half the day making a sort of sweet sandcastle and the other half of the day crafting guns to protect what you made from those assholes.

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>>382157801
>>toxic git gud community
>>spend hours trying to scrap up a decent shelter just to be mowed down by some gangs
>being this shit at video games

>>glitched physics out the ass
>>no actual point other than survive
>buy early access
>hurr durr its broken refand
maybe you should refund your life instead

>>382161685
>>>/r/eddit

>>382161685
>bringing up /pol/ out of nowhere
fucking hate redditors. I can't go a day without seeing some South American retard being obsessed with /pol/. At least adopt a trip so I can filter your ass.

>>382161685
You must be 18+

>>382158967

>I refund games that I'm not good enough to play

I'd kill myself if I was you, tbqh

>>382161685
kill self
faggot

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>>382161685
>tfw too intelligent to form a logical argument

>still in early access

no pity

>>382161775
5v1 cancer shitter spotted who somehow thinks he's good

>>382156906
>bought this game
>was a black woman
>immediately uninstalled and refunded the game

gee, it's almost like you asked for it.

What are these "fees" that developers lose when refunds happen?

I refund a shitload of games under the impression there is no cost, that's the only reason I buy shit on steam to begin with

>>382156906
>why is this okay??

Why is selling a shitty product without a guaranteed customer satisfaction ok?

>>382162569
Don't know too much but Valve takes a 30% cut out of the sale, don't think Valve pays that 30% back so it comes out of the devs pocket or something.

>>382162569
https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/880156244253839361

>>382162706
>>382162772

Damn, I actually feel kind of bad now

>>382162914

Don't.

>>382156906
>has cost Rust
what
your product is trash
people refund in a 2 hour window for whatever the reason
and now you say it costed you anything?
a refunded product doesn't cost you anything
it is consumer rights

>>382162772
see
>>382160263
He's saying 6% of the sales were refunded, not that refunds cost him 6% of his earnings.

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>>382157473
>Not to mention the emotional toll.

>>382156906
Could you explain what the problem is exactly because I'm not seeing it.

>>382162059
>I have so little to do with my life that I suffer though infuriating experiences at my leasure

>>382156906
It didn't cost them anything. The person paid for a product, they didn't like the product, so it was returned for the amount they paid.

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>>382160170
>EU
Actually its because of the Australian consumer watchdog, the ACCC.

As much as people meme on Australia we're the ones you owe for the refund system. Can't do business in Australia without having one, and while Valve tries to toe the line by doing things like charging us in USD to escape the definition of "doing businesses in Australia" (because doing so mandates that and a shitload of other customer protection) but its slowly catching up with them.

>>382163041
You're supposed to keep shit game in your library forever. Refunding it makes jews less happy.

>>382160170
they're only required to do refunds in the EU though, they're not obliged to do it other territories.

i create a store
i put products in the shelves to sell, but i put them in boxes
i put posters to promote the product, but i don't let the clients see the product
people buy my product on asumptions and promises
people go home, open the box, and see that it was a lie
people return the product in two hours, complying to law
i complain about losses

>>382163273
i make shit analogies

Probably why they're afraid of going out of EA.
Because once it goes out of EA, refund limits reset.

the only people losing something is the customers wasting their time of a buggy/unfinished/troll product

Rust is nigger simulator. You build things and then a bunch of niggers destroy it for no reason at all. I'm glad I could refund this piece of shit

>>382163420

>>382162706

Says valve refunds if the game is refunded

The developers get the money initially, but then the money is docked the following pay cycle when the return is processed.

>>382159315
also they wont except it if you've owned it for at least 2 weeks

>>382163467
No wonder 90% of the playerbase is composed of brazilians

>>382156906
Is Rust that game where the dev got very up the SJWs ass in regards to randomly generated olayers

>>382163467
When you're surrounded by roving gangs, the only way to survive is to join a gang yourself. Making one yourself is always an option.

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man, fuck rust
I'm attempting a refund here.

>>382163716
Yeah.

>>382159960
What extra cost?

>>382163826
If you didn't submit this yet, you should note in saying that you gave it another shot later that they restructured how the game plays, so those four hours are functionally like playing two similar games for 2 hours each.

>>382163854
The time you wasted playing it.

>>382156906
Reminder that Garry is a faggot, posted his dick on Twitter, and has a micropenis.

>>382163997
nah, pretty sure I replayed it before any major restructure happened. already submitted

>>382157801
Nevermind all your retarded points.
But all the game is just buggy, glitchy early access minecraft with guns. I'm still salty I tried giving the game a chance and wasted my refund opportunity.
Can't believe two of my friends sank more than 1,5k hours into this fucking snoozefest

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>>382156906
Guess what, you anticonsumerist shitbag developers? There's one really easy way to avoid this, and it has been used since the 80s: A FUCKING DEMO.

I don't need to buy and refund your shitty game if there's a fucking demo so I can try it first.

friendly reminder:

https://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/

>>382161496
>quote Garry saying the refund system likely benefited their game
>why is he complaining
uuuuha aaaahhhhuuuuhhh
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>friend bought it for me at full price because i promised him $20
>he excommunicates me over drama
>no longer have to pay him

i remember getting pretty far once, but the balance is all over the place. also the xp system is balls

>>382157473
>they lose in fees and shit
valve eats this
>Valve also loses faith in the developer
this isn't a thing, even if it was it doesn't mean anything
>It's in indeed very costly
lrn2english, this isn't saying anything
>emotional toll
consider suicide

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>>382157473
>Not to mention the emotional toll.
>>382157473

>>382161910
>bringing up Reddit out of nowhere
Not him, but you're doing the same.

>>382163273
>i complain about losses
He isn't complaining.

>>382164440
What dev would waste time AND MONEY making a fucking demo?
Are you mentally disabled?

>>382156906
>steams refund system has cost Rust 4 Million Dollars

This doesn't mean anything unless you add in the purchases from people who didn't refund and only tried it because they knew they could refund it if they didn't like it/it didn't run on their PC.

>>382161752
>>382161246
That's the point of the game retard, rust's basebuilding is garbage. If you want to autistically build pretty shit go play minecraft. The point of this game is to kill each other, only you have to invest time to be able to do that. There's nothing to do in rust other than 1.killing other players and 2. building ugly shitty bases. Go play something else.

>shitty game that's been in early access for 5 years and has no signs of being finished getting refunded
>SJW being denied money
how is this a bad thing?

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>>382156906

>>382156906
rust more like
dont trust

Unless refunds somehow take away more money out of their pocket than what was given, it didn't "cost" them anything.

>>382158318
Where the hell are you getting -30% and +10% from

>>382163826
>purchased in 2014
>that tl;dr blog post
retard

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>>382157473
>emotional toll

>>382164760
Oh yeah poor poor dev having to put some small effort into locking out content and making a demo.

In any case it's that or get slammed with refunds, faggot, no way around it. Do you prefer refunds, or to make a demo? If you don't make a demo you don't get to complain.

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>>382164954
>I didn't read the thread before spewing shit on my keyboard
THE EMOTIONAL TOLL

It's because Rust is fucking terrible.

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>>382156906
He's a faggot cuck that forces his playerbase to play as a character they dont want in the name of antiracism.

Of course he can be convinced to believe any stupid shit that's harmful to him.

Oh the other hand he absolutely deserves it, so it's pretty much a win-win situation.

There are people in this thread that forgets this guy is the creator of Garry's Mod

>>382161667
but he doesn't believe this, and supports the system, so???

>>382165009
good goy!
don't request a refund!

and be as ambiguous as possible with your explanation!

>>382157473
>emotional toll
everybody knows Early Access devs are dead inside

>buy it years ago
>make multiple refund requests
>all denied
>still not out of early access

I can't wait for the final release so the refund period resets

>>382165085
Demos are shit anyway, devs will load the most fun stuff in the demo to trick players into thinking it's fun (like age of conan did) then they're locked it. Now that we have 2 hour refunds steam should just add a "demo" button that lets you try every game for 2 hours then you have to buy it or you can't play. That's already what we have only that people need to have money transferred out of their credit cards and back to them, instead of just trying it.

>>382157473
>not to mention the emotional toll
Should have tried making a non-shitty game, eh?

>>382156906

make a better game next time haha

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF MY FEELINGS!

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>open a restaurant
>serve rotten food
>people complain and don't pay the bill
>complain about losses

>>382158759
>I'll buy one if you hand it to me upside down.

>>382163826
you know the devs get to read your statement right

>>382165782
Good

Is this the guy who sings "Here in my Car"?

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>>382156906
the struggle?
real

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>>382166310
*laugh stops*

>valve holds money from sales for 2 weeks from purchase before you can receive it
>common policy through out the retail world
>used for things such as chargebacks and refunds
>refunds have always been a thing valve did
>they just made it easier for people to request them
>Valve is nice about it and let's devs know people are refunding their game now
>even has a feedback form for why people are refunding it
>Devs act like it's a personal attack

>>382156906
I know Rust is still in beta, but the learning curve is kinda steep at the very beginning.

Steam rolling out refund system in the U.S. too will continue to punish games that don't hold beginner's hands.

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>>382159006
>you'll never have tea with david duchovny

>>382157473
>emotional toll
Anyone who sells early access has no emotions

>build a base
>it gets raided 10 minutes later
i dont blame people refunding it. everyone that plays it is a dick

>>382164793
I'm not complaining about people destroying my base, I'm complaining about them doing it in a group of 5-10 using resources pooled together in a clan base, and usually while I'm offline for the night too.

>>382166836
Get gud, dumb amerifat.

>not just going a PvE server to learn the basics before moving on to PvP servers

>>382156906
Twig update was cancer, they should have gotten rid of it

>>382166929
When you say git gud in this context, what are you implying? That he should spend hours searching for the most isolated, hidden spot to build his base before playing the game? You sound retarded.

>>382156906
Fuck off shill

>>382165304
That's a good idea and all, but it would result in a *lot* more people trying "demos" which would mean a lot more bandwidth fees for 0 money.
The current system is fine in that it allows demoing - but there's a small barrier of effort you have to go through that ensures at least some restraint of bandwidth fees.

Refunding because a product doesn't work is fair and legitimate.
Refunding because you don't like the game, or because you already got your use out of it is stupid and childish.

>>382167079
>>382166968
Retard, get rekt and don't post ever again on my thread.

>>382156906
How much has Rust made overall though?

>>382161496
retard

I'm refunding the second it leaves early access if that trick still works. Game will not run.

>>382160559
xD nice bait

>>382167141
Learning the game doesn't help at all. No matter how well you know the game you still have to leave your base, farm resources, and bring them back to your base in order to progress. At any point during this process a bunch of pussies in armor can cross your path and steal all your shit. Unless what you mean by "learn the game" is "log on only in the dead of night when no one is on."

>>382156906
what's the alternative? Forcing people to own a game that they don't like? Maybe if people actually advertised games with what they are actually like, less of this shit would happen.
>Steam games often have short videos on store page
>instead of showing actual game play, it's made like a shitty art project where it cuts between several backgrounds without showing any actual gameplay
The best are the ones where instead of showing the GAMEPLAY they flash reviews on screen. Fuck them. And fuck the people who claim refunds are at all bad.

>>382166929
sorry, but hitting a tree with a rock just to get killed by a group of autistics with guns isn't fun. the game sucks

>>382165617
>>complain about losses
He isn't complaining.

>>382167139
Nah, you're just greedy.

>>382163716
that depends, do you call "permanently assigning randomized player features" up the sjw's ass?

>>382158759
>Black
>Olives

>>382156906
But Rust is shit, where is the issue?

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>>382157473
>i agree to these fees if someone refunds a game
>WOAH NOW SOMEONE REFUNDED AND I HAD TO PAY A FEE

>>382167221
roughly twenty times this

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>>382167424
I bet it was fun for the guys that killed you.

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>>382157473
Include me in the screencap please.

>>382167424
This, after enough times of this happening I questioned more than any other game I've ever played why the fuck I was playing it. I was just providing free resources that I did all the work to collect to garbage people an instant. Before I stopped playing Rust a few times I despawned every item in my base while it was being raided, which was satisfying.

>play rust
>run up on a guy
>thrust my spear into him
>he begins to run
>we dart around in some bushes
>constantly hitting him with my spear
>he will just warp a few metres away and it will not register as a hit
>quit rust
>don't go back

>>382157473
>emotional toll
Do they expect a hug for each refund?

>>382167607
Which is the main reason to quit. The game is fun for cheesing retards and their low IQs like alt righters, not so much for anyone actually interested in playing a survival game. The priorities are completely out of whack.

>>382167136
>have to put in effort to get a demo
?? pretty sure they'd make their money back with the people that tried the game and bought it, and if people decide not to buy it afterwards, too bad, you should make a good game
>>382166901
Yeah that's what made me quit as well, but I'm glad there's at least 1 game where you're rewarded for going full autism mode and pouring all your time into it with your buddies, they don't make many games like that these days

>>382165304
I would actually rather have unlimited time to check out what the dev believes to be a great part of the game, then be rushed into playing 2 hours of a game that isn't all that indicative. A 20 minute cinematic 20 minutes fucking with settings and then 40 minutes of a boring slow tutorial that doesn't make proper use of the mechanics. It's like buying a book. They say check out a page 30-40 in, instead of just reading the first page.

>>382167905
>and their low IQs like alt righters
Come one now, let's not turn this into a political discussion. You just need to stop being shit at games.

>>382157473
I have a game on steam, you dumbshit, only chargebacks you lose money, not steam refunds (which mitigate chargebacks)

>>382167905
>pol always makes shit political
>fucking retarded alt rights am I right

Rust was pretty cool.

Unfortunately the spec required are not the same as they were when it launched so I'll have to refund when it's released.

>>382156906
>EA
>wants 4mil for it
Hehe.

>>382158318
>>382158590
>>382158819
>>382161429
prove that this fee exists. I've been looking and I can't find it.

>>382168105
imo you should be able to refund games if they make massive changes to them or increased the required specs to play them afterwards, you lost what you payed for basically

>>382168007
I mean that's a point but consider that the games that ship the largest numbers by far are AAA games
Those AAA games have a tendency of being 30GB+ lately
If you have a *lot* of people downloading those with a possible intent to purchase, you'll have a problem

I could see your idea existing for select games, maybe opt-in for developers, but I don't think it's viable for 100% of the games on Steam

>>382158819
It's not retarded, your game being shitty enough for someone to want a refund costs them bandwidth and server time and makes an incremental amount of work for their accountants.

If you don't like it, sell on GOG or Humble Store or some shit.

>>382167489
But I'm not a developer or publisher.
I have no skin in the game.

>>382168026
>>382165304
Should also add, looking back at my psx-ps2 era demo/jampack hoarding I never made a purchase i regretted based off of a demo

>>382168063
>>382168063
Games like this are appealing to people like you who are shit at games though. Instead of being good at anything at all, you grief people superior to you in groups of 5 using resources you pooled together.

Imagine wanting to take away basic consumer rights.

Americans are fucking retarded cunts holy shit.

>>382168007
And by >have to put in effort to get a demo
I meant you have to transfer money out of your credit card to steam and think about having to refund later if you don't like it.
That's effort.

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>>382160263
Then why didn't he make a demo if refunds hurt him so much?

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>>382157473
>Not to mention the emotional toll.
Good post anon

>>382168287
A game being refunded doesn't necessarily mean the game is bad, it can also mean the customer is bad and stupid with shit taste, or didn't read what they were buying. It's probably like a 50% probability that the fault for the refund is on the dev or the customer.

>>382168245
Honestly maybe it'd cost some money to steam but it'd be chump change. I know businesses and all that aren't your friends but it seems like these days businesses do not care at all about making a good product or store or whatever for their customers, they could definitely do it but they probably won't because no one's gonna quit steam over something like that.

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>>382168306
>you grief people superior to you in groups of 5 using resources you pooled together
This is called strategy, you dumb gringo. I'm also brazilian, far from the right actually.

>>382160760
The "gather shit and build it to survive while exploring" thing definitely scratches an itch, that's why these things are so popular. Unfortunately the ones that do it at all well are rare. Subnautica does it pretty well, and they're actually getting pretty close to final release.

>>382156906
Imagine how much money the DayZ devs are going to lose.

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>>382167581
hehe

>>382156906
Maybe if they don't want to have $4m refunded, they shouldn't make a shitty game

>>382168496
Strategy implies critical thinking and achievement. Being a cheeser is not strategy, it's just being a cheeser. You aren't a strategic mastermind for cheesing, you're just a stupid piece of shit. There has never been a single time where you've killed by someone in Rust with your brigade of retards and the person thought "Wow, I"m really impressed by their strategy." You insufferable stupid cunt.

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Dont make shit games

>>382168560
6% of their sales, just like this guy?

>>382168703
>they shouldn't make a shitty game
Not an argument.
Next.

>>382156906
>releasing a game before its finished and expecting people to pay for it might have negative coincidences

WOOOOOOOOOOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW?
notice how the only devs that complain about refunds are also the ones doing the shittiest business practices

>>382167136
>which would mean a lot more bandwidth fees for 0 money.
oh no fucking pennies for hundreds of people. if just one person buys a copy itll make the money back a hundred fold oh god the humanity

>>382168793
And 6% translates into millions. Except Dayz Devs are going to lose a lot more. That's why that game will never be out of early access.

Now show the actual sales figures.

>>382156906
Why is everyone acting as thought the Garry is complaining or some shit? He literally said that he thinks that the refund system ended up getting him way more sales than he would have otherwise.

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>>382168726
>being this assblasted because he can't organize a group of people to collect resources from a bunch of newfags
Kek kys t.bh
Damn, it sure feels good to be smart.

>>382168735
Don't buy shit games.

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>>382157473
>the emotional toll.

>>382156906
Refunds should just be illegals, it promotes people to buy without thinking. It damages society and teaches the wrong lesson to people.

>>382168469
it's single player though, people who play these types of game usually don't play singleplayer only stuff like that.

>>382168976
Remember people, next time you read an article about a bunch of chavs/nigs/refuges stealing something or beating someone to near death, know that they were just exercising their superior intellect over brainlets.

>>382156906
and why are people like you so brainwashed to instantly consider one of the only pro-consumer moves in recent years bad?
it's honestly fascinating how corporates manage to brainwash people with marketing, manipulation, into thinking some things that are good for them are actually bad

>>382168375
The post you're quoting is saying that it doesn't hurt them.

>>382167762
What screencap?

>>382168975
Because 140 characters is not enough context

>>382169225
meant for
>>382168547

I oppose refunds.
Not because i have any moral, logical or monetary opposition.
I just get a a warm and fuzzy feeling from watching dumb people get fucked out of money. Like laughing at people who fell for NMS would have been way more fun if they couldn't just refund.

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What does Rust do to stand out from other games of its kind outside of the random character thing?

>>382168976
I played in a group in Rust very briefly and it was just as boring and pathetic as I expected it to be. After a few times roaming and killing nakeds 5v1 I left and returned in the middle of the night to despawn all the items in the clan base and destroy all the sleeping bags. You are a sad piece of garbage for playing anything in the easiest, least skill-based way possible. What's even the point of playing a game if you remove all the challenge from it by 10v1ing nakeds while they're farming? All you're doing is griefing other people like a sociopath and proving you're a lowly shitter who can't compete. I bet you use cheats whenever possible.

>>382169384
and I laugh way harder when shitty sjw"""game"""" developers make 2 hour walk simulators that get refunded and then they cry on twitter

These devs need to take /personal responsibility/ for their losses and stop blaming the consumer :^)

>>382161685
I have no issue with this post because /pol/ is the new /b/. We used to tell the average retard to fuck off to /b/ because /b/ was full of retards.

>>382169394
Plenty of Early Access Survival games give you a random character, anon.

>>382169447
t. dumb american

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>>382167905
>alt righters
wow, making everything political sure is fun

>>382168547
Subnautica is amazing, and notably single player. It doesn't really work multiplayer because there's very few ways to counter the exploiting wannabe-sociopath that infests all games of this type. Any gap you fill with just be replaced with another one.

>>382169447
You have to have a big clan if you want to get anywhere in this game since everyone else is in clans. Log out for hours? Oh, your base got raided, start over. Not so much a problem when you're got 17 other dudes watching over the base when you're not online.

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>>382157473
>emotional toll

I have a key for Rust from a Humble Bundle, what can anons trade for it?

>>382169478
Not as funny to me desu. Maybe just cause they don't post on /v/. Maybe it's just because people who buy bad games are objectively dumber than people who make em. Dunno.

>>382169612
Which makes the game completely boring in another way, since now you've removed all of the challenge and survival aspect of it and it's just a stupid FPS game where people hide on rooftops. The game is an admirable attempt at something, but it's just fundamentally broken.

>>382157473
>memontional troll
They're still asking for money tho.

>>382156906
The game is awful and if it ever comes out of early access, I'm refunding it immediately.

>>382169478
>using twitter
>caring at all about no names
Fuck off idiot.

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>>382169659
>That image
Neato.

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>>382169716
>>382169881

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>>382169698
This reaction image.

>>382169964
get me some good time with her and the key is yours

>>382169936
I mean she is not wrong though.
I think that is one of your typical lolcows on cripplechan or whatever. But that doesn't make everything she says funny.

>>382169936
>"She" said that and still published her game on steam

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>>382157473
>emotional toll

He deserves so much more for encouraging this philosophy of zombie survival craft early access games on steam. Faggot should be forced to watch his parents get executed.

>>382170151
>encouraging people to make 10 min shovelware
Kill yourself.

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>rust has been in "alpha" for almost 4 years now

>>382156906
Why are people playing shit games like Rust?
>they are refunding
Why are people buying a game they already know is shit?

>>382169936
tbqh the refund time should be based on some part of the average playtime or be game-specific

Maybe if facepunch took advice from what the majority of the players thought about the game, instead of shaping every update after what the whining babies on the r**dit complain about, there wouldn't be as many refunds.

>>382170337
There's nothing wrong with making a game of any length as long as it's advertised as such and priced accordingly. You're an idiot taking a moronic stance just to be an edgelord.

>>382170434
ARE YOU READY FOR 4 HOUR UNSKIPPABLE INTROS

>>382170357
I've paid for worse
rip cubeworld

>>382170434
Yeah, with 2 hours minimum and more time for longer games.

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>>382170151
>I think that is one of your typical lolcows on cripplechan or whatever. But that doesn't make everything she says funny.

Go away John. You were irrelevant even before you chopped your penis off.

>>382156906
>"cost"
Didn't cost them shit, famalam. Those were potential purchases, and their product failed to finalize the transaction.

>>382168967
>6% translates to millions
do you not know how math works or do you think that 6% becomes more than 6% when it represents millions of dollars?

because when you lose a couple mill, but you're making literally 20x that, it kind of doesn't matter one half-lick of a fuck?

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>>382170151
wait theres a cripplechan

>>382170535
>there's nothing wrong with making shitty games and selling them for the price you desire
Kill yourself twice. You're the reason this industry is so shitty.

>>382170357
So? Your dick is still in alpha.

>>382170357
Typically, when multiplayer games are finished, they die.

Saying it's in "Alpha" is obviously a ploy to try and skirt criticism of technical issues but it's a minor sin, it'd just be the same game getting content and regular patches otherwise.