Guys, please help me decide an argument between me and a friend

No... it was beauty that killed the beast.

>>381883289
it was cloud

It was bad writing.

File: 1461545940320.gif (971KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

971KB, 500x500px

>>381883289
>help me decide an argument between me and a friend of mine.
>help me decide an argument

File: Capture.png (607KB, 523x487px) Image search: [Google]

607KB, 523x487px

>>381883435

Literally this.

what game

>>381883654
Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

>>381883654
Stop trying to force your shitty meme Millhouse.

The Jews killed Aerith

Prove me wrong

>>381883289
Sephiroth. If the game doesn't make it clear enough with Jenova's body being an inactive husk until the reunion begins wherein IT moves to Sephiroth and not the other way around, takes Sephiroth's form, talks like Sephiroth, and has motivations based on Sephiroth's past then take Hojo's word for it when he spells it out for you at the end of disk one.

Or take the Word Of God from the developers spelling it out in Ultimania.

Whoever thinks it's Jenova is literally fucking retarded.

>>381883821
Sephiroth died in the Nibelheim reactor, way back in the flashback stuff. The entirety of FFVII, outside of flashbacks, every appearance of Sephiroth is actually Jenova

File: marche.jpg (49KB, 508x554px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 508x554px

>>381883289
it was actually marche invading your dream

>>381883435
This.

Also this isn't even sephiroth, he died at nibel, it's just some weird combination of jenova cells, livestream and sephiroths husk

>>381883821

You're completely fucking wrong, mate.

>>381883895
>>381883941
Jesus fucking Christ Poe's Law in action.

>>381884036
altrightfag detected

>>381883289
The Sepheroth that drops down and stabs her is Jenova who has taken the form of Sepheroth.

The real Sepheroth is frozen inside the northern crater and you dont actually fight him till the final battle.

The game makes it very ambiguous who is actually in control Sepheroth or Jenova but its hinted that Sepheroths plans are at least influenced by Jenova.

>>381883901
Kys

>>381883925

If Sephiroth died he'd have been at the ebb and flow of the life stream's reincarnation but he didn't, he was thrown into the life stream by Cloud physically. It's still the same guy, he just has far more knowledge than he'd had before.

>>381883289
You only see the real sphiroth in the end, for the rest of the game it's jenova morphed into the sephiroth appearance, while being controlled by sephiroth himself

so basically jenova, controlled by sephiroth

Maybe I'm retarded but I really didn't understand anything in this game, like how did Cloud even got the idea that he was Zack, was it just autism and low self steem from being a low ranked soldier and creating Zack's persona inside him?

So in the end Cloud is literally /r9k/?

I want to see Sephiroth vs Fou-Lu(BoF4) in a screwattack death battle

>>381884036
Honest question here: have you played the game?

>>381884367
>how did Cloud even got the idea that he was Zack
PTSD plus reaction with the jenova cells causing amnesia and fake memories, when zack died he said that cloud should live on as his living legacy, that probably didn't help the situation

>>381884036
Cloud throws Sephiroth into the lifestream at the Mt Nibel reactor. Sephiroth's body ends up in the Northern Crater, frozen in a big Mako crystal. This happens long before the events of the game, which is why it's relayed in flashbacks. Real Sephiroth is frozen in that crystal until the very end of the game. Every single time Sephiroth appeared prior to that end, it was actually Jenova taking on his form.

>>381883435
>>381883596
This is my headcannon too.

>>381883895
he didn't die, but you only actually meet him in the end of the game. Jenova is just a mindless drone being controlled by him

>>381883596
But that was Jenova controlling Cloud. When he was able to resist the control, Jenova killed Aeris herself, she just was in the form of Sephiroth

>>381884083
The game doesn't make it ambiguous at all. It spells it out pretty fucking clearly. For fuck's sake there is zero reason for it to take his appearance for starters. Just think about the nature of the reunion. It's Jenova's body parts migrating back to its main will. Where is the reunion? Sephiroth's body. Sephiroth IS Jenova now. His will has dominated the rest of the creature. It's Jenova's original body you follow, but it is Sephiroth. His mind. His ego. His plans and history. His will.
>>381884592
>>381884398
>>381884083
Literally fucking retarded or le ebin trollface.jpg? You decide!

>>381884698
I decide that Hauchefant was a better done Final Fantasy death. And that was a fucking mmo.

>>381884696
it was sephiroth controlling cloud, as soon as sephiroth entered the livestream 5 years before the game, jenova lost completely control over herself and those with her cells, sephiroth's will and "power" was just too great

>>381884842
I can respect this.

>>381883289
looks like the white haired girl is walking a slug

>>381884698
Except you are wrong, destroying the world and eating its lifeforce was Jenova's plan all along, not Sepheroth's.

>>381885367
>Sepheroth

at least try harder

he learned of her plan, he got into the livestream, his will surpassed hers, he got into full control

>>381885367
He adopted a biological imperative.
Jenova adopted Sephiroth's:
>grudges
>ego
>appearance
>mannerisms
>behavior as informed by personal history
>skills
Jenova is the meat puppet. As is every other piece taking part in the reunion. Cloud included until he asserts his will over Sephiroth's in the lifestream at the end.


Yes. Sephiroth is Jenova now. But his mind and will supersede the original's.

Pay attention in class kids. Don't be this guy.

>>381885612
>>381885540
It's pretty obvious he's trolling don't be that guy

>all this austism about a 20 year old game

>>381885612
In game canon supersedes your head canon, dont be that guy

>>381885718
I know he is trolling but it's 2017. We're far removed from the game being extremely relevant anymore. Meme retardation long enough and it can and does become what actual people believe. I won't stand for it!

Does it matter who is in control when Sephiroth just carries out Jenova's plan?

>>381885856
Samefagging and replying to yourself trying to claim a guy is trolling when you just got BTFO is the saddest thing i have ever seen.

Is Hojo Sephiroth's dad?

>>381886089
Yes, and Lucretia his mother.

>>381886032
except he isn't replying to himself because I posted that, stop being a faggot

>>381886006
When it's the entire point of the game? A little. Sephiroth's will becoming dominant establishes who he is as a character and the importance of Cloud beating his will in the lifestream at the end.

It's Jenova's template behavior because yes, Sephiroth is a Jenova, but he becomes THE Jenova and that matters.

File: 1461102445028.jpg (65KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 640x480px

>it's such a masterpiece no one knows what the fuck actually happened

>>381884367
You just answered your own question.
>So in the end Cloud is literally /r9k/?
Considering he actually gets the girl, no.

>>381886195
But Sephiroth still carries out Jenova's will.

>>381886416
I always assumed shitposters and people who say the game is shit were simply too dense to understand what the fuck is going on and it's literally a children's story

>>381886195
Acting under Jenovas will for Jenovas goals.

Cetra called Jenova the Great Deceiver.

All of this is IN GAME.

>>381883289
Cloud.

Sephiroth stabs her, she's alive but unconscious.

Cloud drowns her.

File: Rosa Ushiromiya.jpg (102KB, 200x470px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 200x470px

>>381883289
Holy shit, are we still talking about this?
It was proven times and times again that it was Rosa!

>>381886703

Not this shit again.

>>381886673
>All of this is IN GAME.
So is Hojo declaring his surprise that Sephiroth had taken over.
BUT HERE WE ARE.

>>381884871
>sephiroth entered the livestream

>>381883289
I really wish Sephiroth didn't become insane and instead raided Shinra with Cloud and Zack.

>>381886778
Come back when you have actually played the game.

>>381886673
and that's what makes sephiroth so scary, that he can deceive the master deceiver

>>381886531
to be honest i thought it was like this
>cloud learns that sephy is still alive
>we learn that sephy is an evil guy that wants to destroy the world because he had a shit life
>sephy then killed clouds girlfriend because fuck cloud
>cloud swore double revenge at sephy first for killing his bro zack and second for killing his gf
>the weapons are sephi's super underlings same goes to jenova
>the finale battle was between cloud and sephi with cloud inheriting zacks soul so he can do omnislash

>>381886803
He is insane but has a massive will that can take over female aliens.

>>381886902
>for killing his bro zack
idiot

"Sephiroth fell into the Lifestream, his willpower too great to allow himself to be consumed. Over the next several years Sephiroth travels the Lifestream, the Planet's life energy and the afterlife for its spirits that contains the summation of all the cognition its inhabitant have ever accumulated. Growing in power and knowledge, the fragments of his body congregate at the Northern Cave inside the North Crater, joining to recreate Sephiroth's physical form in a cocoon of Mako. Sephiroth's new goal is to merge with the Lifestream and seize control of it to become a god.

Though his physical body is encased in Mako, Sephiroth can control Jenova's cells as an extension of his body and thus act out his plans through the remains of Jenova's body. Hojo has injected Zack, Cloud and the survivors of Nibelheim (save for Tifa who was rescued by her mentor Zangan before Shinra found her) with Sephiroth's cells, turning them into Sephiroth Clones: people whose wills have been over-ridden with Sephiroth's will. Hojo believes the Jenova cells within Sephiroth would call for a "reunion" of those who shared its cells, and wishes to see his theory put to test.
The reunionEdit

During Final Fantasy VII, approximately five years after his supposed death, in December 0007, Sephiroth enacts his plan and puts out the call for the reunion to summon the Sephiroth Clones to the North Cave. Jenova's remains, which had been moved to the Shinra Headquarters in Midgar, shapeshift into Sephiroth's form and break out of containment. "

Now everyone shut the fuck up please

Here's the facts. Whether it was Sephiroth or Jenova, there's no official answer. However, Sephiroth was there in some form and it wasn't completely Jenova.

Imagine if it was Jenova all along. That'd be a fucking letdown.

File: 1473726434412.jpg (55KB, 960x704px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 960x704px

None of they, it's PARASITES killed her.

>>381887041
I thought spehiroth told his henchmen to kill zack after he dies because of revenge or someshit?
I played this game when I was 9 years old ive no fucking idea whats happening and make up the story as I see it. I havent touched the game since 9/11 now.

>>381887110
>there's no official answer.
Yes there fucking is. In game and out. Shut up.

>>381887049
>Sephiroth's new goal is to merge with the Lifestream and seize control of it to become a god.
This completely conflicts with everything Sephiroth stands for before becoming insane, it's clearly not the same person by any sense of the word.

>>381888235
>I am the rightful heir to this planet
wow sure sounds like a completely different person said this huh

>>381888341
He literally thought he was cetra at that point and that the planet belonged to the cetra.

>>381888341
He was already controlled by Jenova at that point.
The psychological trauma he received at Nibleheim made him vulnerable enough for this to happen.

>>381887049
Copy pasting a wikipedia article lol

also >>381888235 this

>>381888412
and after he fell into the lifestream he found out he was "something greater" and got a raging boner over it

>>381888235
It does not conflict at all. He's motivated to find where he belongs, seeing himself as a monster. He learns to embrace what he is and sees it as a higher calling. Him taking up Jenova's MO is not the same as Sephiroth losing his sense of self to the greater mass. The game very clearly demonstrates its his will, his personality, grudges, and even fucking appearance at play here. Jenova in terms of id, ego, and superego is dead.

>>381888459
lol copy pasting the correct and canon lore of the game lol what a loser lol why don't you just keep shitposting with the rest of us lol

>>381886089
Yes, even though plot wise it makes way more sense for it to be Vincent (gives a half decent reason for Hojo to kill him instead of "YOU WERE GETTING THE WAY, I'M SO EVIL").

>>381883435
-t, Matpat

>>381885770
>wanting to understand a slightly convoluted story is autism
I like how autismfags make a good job at portraying normalfags as ADHD idiots.

>>381883289
Jenova, (think Kadaj Loz Yazoo form)

Sephiroth has been dead the entire game but his body and soul remain at northern crater due to falling into the lifestream. You never actually speak or hear from him outside of flashbacks. Even the big revelation of it being Zack is Jenova fucking with him. Remember that Sephiroth wasn't evil per say, just fucked up at misunderstanding his situation. Jenova is an evil alien set out on destroying the planet and even in the movie it's not Sephiroth at the end Cloud fights but a form of Jenova jumping between vessels.

It's annoying and long winded but yeah that's 7.

Why not use phoenix down on aeris?

Who the fuck gives a crap Aeris sucks. Worst party member, worst personality, worst girl.

I'm only sad she didn't get shanked earlier and with a dirtier shiv.

>>381889915
This I back. It was Jenova, Sephiroths personality in the flashbacks wasn't malicious when we saw him. Cold hearted but not evil.

>>381890415
>Worst party member
>not caith sith

>>381886147
Via teh raep

File: tumblr_mg32hqcO7v1rtzle6o6_400.gif (370KB, 300x169px) Image search: [Google]

370KB, 300x169px

>>381883586

Shinra killed Aeris

If they hadn't been chasing her to find the Promised Land, literally none of the shit that happened beyond AVALANCHE bombing Mako reactors would have happened.

>>381883435
deepest lore

>>381890057
Shit son, phoenix down like 200 gil a piece, you think they fucking made of money?

>>381892531
Cloud seemed pretty ass devastated about it.

>>381883435
>>381883596

Yeah no, don't you think the cutscene where he lays her to rest would have looked a bit different if he slashed her to pieces with a buster sword?

>>381883289

Does it really make difference? Would Jenova's and Sephiroth's will not be the same anyway?
Sephiroth in Jenova form or Jenova in Sephiroth form, same shit

File: tumblr_static_c3ckwykelxs8s0wcw0www04c0_640_v2[1].jpg (23KB, 608x336px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 608x336px

I'm pretty sure that the Jenova fights are actually fights against Sephiroth clones, but since they don't want to show Cloud's team defeating an incarnation of Sephiroth, they just visually make it like you're fighting Jenova instead. Being that Jenova creates Sephiroth clones.

Basically, these guys killed Aerith.

File: Death_of_Aeris.jpg (160KB, 640x448px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 640x448px

>>381894495
This guy killed Aeris

>>381890057
phoenix down is for K.O. not death

>>381894797
Uhhh, cloud has been though a fuck load more in boss fights than just a simple sword though him, and PD gets him right the fuck back up.

File: 1490204461889.jpg (36KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 300x300px

Since FFVII is canonically in the same universe as FFX, and takes place hundreds of years after the events of FFX, is there a possibility that someone who was left on Spira is summoning Jenova for some purpose, much like Sin/Zanarkand?

>>381895076
>Since FFVII is canonically in the same universe as FFX
The fuck are you talking about lmao

>>381895160
Some guy at SE said that the Shinra kid in FFX was the ancient descendant of the founder of Shinra corp in FFVII or some shit

>>381895398

"Some guy" can kinda fuck off, that kid in FFX-2 meant nothing and was just a nod to FF7.

>>381895791
>>381895398
The lead writer for FF7 and FF10 is "some guy".

I know that Matpat is a shitter now but his analysis on Aeris's death was actually very believable

File: killer.jpg (183KB, 640x448px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 640x448px

>>381894609

That is not a fatal wound. It is below the heart, lungs, stomach and liver. A stab like that would go through your intestines and leave you paralyzed from the waste down. The pain will cause you to lose consciousness.

She drown after that retard Cloud dumped her unconscious body into the water. Cloud is the reason she is dead.

File: blitzball.gif (319KB, 350x174px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 350x174px

>>381895946
Meanwhile...

File: Masamune.png (523KB, 270x1000px) Image search: [Google]

523KB, 270x1000px

>>381896143
100% crit chance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQc7o2rm7po

During the Aeris' death scene at first "Sephiroth" doesn't have his gloves on but when he stabs Aeris he DOES have them on. Where the fuck did they come from and how did he put them on when he had both hand on his sword?

>>381895791
Actually, "Some guy" is the writer for VII, VII, X, X-2, Crisis Core, Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts.

In the Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania Kazushige Nojima said the following:

“Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the energy of "the life force that flows through our planet.
After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think.”

Nojima
"Well, you could say the feelings I have are like that. When I think about the characters, those are the kinds of feelings I already have. Shinra is a good child, but his descendants are going to end up becoming like the president <of Shin-Ra> (laughs)."

Watanabe
"With you said about VII, after seeing your episodes with Shinra, one of the people on the <development> staff said that the first shot of the Bevelle Underground 'gives the impression of somewhere else.'" (reference to the opening shot of Midgar in FFVII)

>>381896184
Canon is canon. Shit or not.

>>381896380
>"Some guy" is the writer for VII, VII, X, X-2, Crisis Core, Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts.

oh so thats why they all suck so bad

>>381895076

>hundreds of years after

It's 3000 years minimum. Nojima said VII took place a thousand year later, but humans were already on Gaia (Why isn't it called Minerva?), when Jenova crashed the party and that was 2000 years before. I'm absolutely convinced Nojima didn't take this into account. The VII-X connection is my pet peeve in the franchise.

>>381895076
Don't think she was summoned, she's an alien entity. It does seem that Spirans are Cetra though due to the ability to not need Materia.

>>381896143
If it helps the New Threat Mod addresses this abit. After the fight Cloud will say "Oh wait I forgot" and uses a Phoenix down on her.

>>381897385

Shinra are the descendants of Spirans (specifically Al'Bhed, who are recently revealed to be the same race as Spiran humans officially). If we accept this idea, it is supported by Sephiroth saying that the humans, who disliked traveling appeared (with spaceships) and took what the Cetra and Planet had built. Spirans aren't Cetra. Furthermore the Materia contain the knowledge of proper prayer to the Planet in order to call forth its power. Should a human learn the prayer, he wouldn't need Materia either.

>>381883289
>sephiroth
why is this even a debate?

File: juice.png (62KB, 192x358px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 192x358px

>>381883817
i see what you did there...

>>381894259
Go look up how biology works dumbass.

>>381883596
Christ, I've seen way too few people talk about the leadup to Aeris's death scene, even though all the leadup from the Temple of the Ancients to the end of Disc 1 was just beautifully handled.

>>381897858
Sephiroth believed Jenova was a Cetra and was abandoned to die by normal humans during ancient times. Sephiroth believed he was Jenova's son, artificially produced from her cells, and therefore the last Cetra. That's why Sephiroth went crazy at Nibelheim and set the village on fire.

Jenova controls Sephiroth because she is obviously not Cetra, but an alien parasite/plague that destroyed the Cetra. She feeds Sephiroth's ego by claiming that he is the last true Cetra that is to control the lifestream and wreak vengeance on normal humans, when Jenova was what actually eliminated the Cetra.

Sephiroth's "will" is dominated by Jenova, the same way that Cloud's Zack's, and all the other soldiers who used materia and incorporated Jenova's alien material get fucked up and dominated by Jenova.

>>381898445
>the same way that Cloud's Zack's
Explain this autism.

>>381898445
>Sephiroth's "will" is dominated by Jenova
Hardly. Sephiroth is insane, but he's still clearly the person in control of Jenova, the clones, and himself.

>>381898445
Everything in this post past the first paragraph is backwards.

>>381898445

I'm not disputing that. Sephiroth has Jenova's genes. I'm saying that the stuff about humans and Cetra were true documented things he read about in the library. There's no reason to disbelieve them, even though Sephiroth is completely mistaken about himself.

>>381898320

All I have to know is how the math works

Aerith = 1
Buster Sword = :2
Aerith meeting Buster Sword = 1:2
That leaves us with Aerith being made of two separate pieces each being 0,5

>>381898769

>I'm not disputing that.

Actually I'm doing it now. We have Hojo as the word of God and video game logic of final boss being the strongest (which applies, since VII was made as a video game and not a revolutionary work it turned out to be.) to say that Sephiroth was in control.

>>381898647
>>381898721
>>381898769
>>381899109

What made Sephiroth crazy was Jenova's manipulation. She made him believe that the Cetra were killed by normal humans, when in fact Jenova eliminated and incorporated them into her DNA like a plague. The last Cetra were able to seal Jenova away, until Shinra dig Jenova up and start using them in a typical capitalist fashion to make materia, mako reactors, etc. to make life more convenient.

Sephiroth's goal after Nibelheim is suddenly to enter the lifestream, why? Because that is actually Jenova's goal.

If you're a prepubescent teen tripping off of power-fantasy level up bullshit Sephiroth is the "most powerful," but so what? He is being manipulated by an alien entity to destroy the planet.

>>381899109
Dude, anyone who's played FF7 all the way through should know that. The fact that somebody is trying to imply that Jenova is controlling Sephiroth means he's either a troll, a fanfic writer, or somebody who hasn't actually played FF7.

>>381899345

I guess if you completely ignore the plot points you could come to this conclusion

>>381899281
Shut up Squall_of_SeeD Square has outright disproven this fan canon over a decade ago. Educate yourself and shut your mouth hole.

File: tumblr_inline_mjoev5VidQ1qz4rgp.png (165KB, 423x333px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 423x333px

>>381886475
This.

>>381899450
Ok so the Nibelheim incident is fan canon. Got it.

File: 104-c78_102.jpg (358KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 800x600px

/r/ing a gif of this scene.

>>381899407
Plot points like:
>The reunion is where Jenova's lesser parts move to the greater
>The reunion is at the crater where Sephiroth's body is
>The entire game focuses on Cloud struggling against the memory of Sephiroth to the point of being physically manipulated by him from beyond the grave
>Hojo stating he expected the reunion to happen at Shinra HQ and was surprised to see Sephiroth pulled the husks to him instead
>Cloud finally beating what is established over a 50 hour game as being a will so indomitable as to control other worldly beings and people affected by it from beyond the grave from within the lifestream, cleansing it of the Sephiroth infection

And my favorite plot point:
>When asked for clarification because this debate is decades old, the writer of FF7 laughed and said it was obviously Sephiroth in control

>>381896143
Just wait until the remake redoes this scene. She's killed instantly, so we can assume he impaled her heart.

>>381899678
Your interpretation of it sure as fuck is. Retard.

File: What the fuck am I reading.jpg (49KB, 374x430px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 374x430px

>>381899281
>made him believe that the Cetra were killed by normal humans
Sephiroth believed the planet was struck by an unnamed disaster and that the Cetra sacrificed themselves to save the planet while humanity hid from the disaster

>Sephiroth's goal after Nibelheim is suddenly to enter the lifestream
He didn't have a choice in the matter when Cloud threw him in you fucking retard

>last Cetra
It wasn't a singular last sole survivor, that doesn't fucking work when there are Cetra 2000 years later

>If you're a prepubescent teen
I'm not any of the guys you mass replied to but (You) are the prepubescent teen who seriously needs to stop posting and play the fucking game because this is the most spelled out shit there is and there is no way you could get this wrong if you tried.

>>381899496
Did they fug?

that body was Jenova's but the one commanding it was Sephiroth.

>>381900103
yes

>>381899281

>Sephiroth's goal after Nibelheim is suddenly to enter the lifestream, why?

It's sorta a coincidence and opportunism. (I love these parallels with that game.) Cloud tossed him in. He travels the Lifestream, learns the truth about Jenova and basically any other secret of the universe any previous living thing on the Planet had discovered, thus growing in power and eventually overcoming Jenova. Now he had the goal drinking up the rest of the Lifestream to get the rest of that power.

>>381899750
>>381899832
>>381900029
Sephiroth so cool and powerful lets just ignore the fact that he is mostly alien DNA, and his will is so powerful, except suddenly his goals realign to be exactly the same as those of the alien when it is unearthed from its mechanical cocoon

>>381900103

If Cloud's affection points are high with Tifa, yes. So, it's optional.

>>381883289
Jenova killed Aeris. Sephiroth sleeps inside mako crystal.

>>381900210
don't push me boy I will whip out the script

https://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/text/info/ff7disc1.txt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTfOQxuX3o
Sephiroth
"Who is it!?"

(Sephiroth is seated at a large desk, surrounded by books. The shelves
that line the walls are in several places bare of books, and a couple of
the shelves have fallen down.)

Sephiroth
"Hmph... traitor."

Cloud
"Traitor?"

Sephiroth
"You ignorant traitor. I'll tell you."

(He faces the wall.)

Sephiroth
"This Planet originally belonged to the Cetra. Cetra was a
itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on..."
"At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the
Promised Land and supreme happiness."

(He turns to Cloud.)

Sephiroth
"But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped
their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life."
"They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without
giving one whit in return!"

(He looks down.)

Sephiroth
"Those are your ancestors."

Cloud
"Sephiroth..."

Sephiroth
"Long ago, disaster struck this planet."

(He looks up and walks to another spot, facing the wall.)

Sephiroth
"Your ancestors escaped... They survived because they hid."
"The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your
ancestors continued to increase."

>>381900210
Yes. Sephiroth is the main villain of FF7 and is set up to be impressive to the player so they feel accomplished when they defeat him. Do you even fucking into basic narratives?

>>381894495
So it just clicked for me that the reason these guys are called Remnants is because Sephiroth's body is no longer hooked up to the Lifestream, so they are literally the last bits of him made flesh

>>381900518
Again, Sephiroth is unaware that Jenova is the "disaster" that struck the planet, and suddenly his goal is to wreak vengeance on normal people because he believes they were responsible for allowing the cetra to die. He is being manipulated by Jenova to do its bidding, including killing everyone in Nibelheim. Nothing in this script contradicts that.

>>381900743
I just call them "Forgettable Movie Villains".

>>381900862
Everything in the script contradicts (You)

>>381899784
I'll just buy the aerith revival DLC

>>381900743

If I remember correctly they're supposed to be Sephiroth's will, speed and power respectively that he manifested. He's still in the Lifestream post-AC. Apparently Aerith could manifest the same way, but doesn't, by the way.

>>381900862
>https://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/text/info/ff7disc2.txt
Hojo
"I have been waiting for the Reunion to start. Five years have
passed, and now the Clones have begun to return."

(Another.)

Hojo
"I thought the clones would begin to gather at Midgar where
Jenova is stored."
"But my predictions were not entirely correct. Jenova itself
began to move away from the Shinra Building."

(The scene fades in to show the materia tree. Cloud stands upside down on
one of the roots, by the huge blue stone in the center.)

Hojo
"But being a genius that I am, I soon figured it out. You see it
was all Sephiroth's doing."
"Sephiroth is not just content to diffuse his will into the
Lifestream; he wants to maniplate the Clones himself."

(The room seems to darken and Cloud sits down on the root, defying
gravity. He crosses his arms on his knees.)

"Yes, that was how it got started."

(The room lightens.)

Hojo
"I wondered where the clones were going, but I was never able to
figure it out."

(Darkens.)

"I couldn't figure it out, either."

(Lightens.)

Hojo
"The one thing that I did know was that Sephiroth was at their
final destinations."

(Darkens.)

"I wasn't pursuing Sephiroth."

(Cloud shakes his head.)

"I was being summoned by Sephiroth."
"All the anger and hatred I bore him made it impossible for me to
ever forget him. That and what he gave me."

TL:DR memetext edition since you seem to be legit fucking 80 IQ and below retarded.

Hojo
>I thought the clones would gather at Midgar with Jenova.
>But I was wrong. Jenova left Midgar.
>I eventually figured it out. They were going to Sephiroth here instead.
Cloud
>Sephiroth was summoning me.

>>381901327
Dude, stop giving him material to troll you with. He's obviously baiting you.

>>381901423
It's not really for him. People legit don't know this shit and it's been debated for years in the past. His misinformation sticks.

File: derp.jpg (50KB, 600x408px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 600x408px

>>381900973
>>381901327

I'm totally not Jenova guys. No alien material here. Definitely my will and my will alone to destroy the world.

Sephiroth was a very kind and good person, especially considering the life he had, there's no way he'd willingly murder innocents of his own volition, he was clearly being controlled at that point, and if you think differently you are objectively incorrect.

>>381901556
Except aren't the people who debate this just looking for an excuse to make shitty yaoi fanfics about Cloud and Sephiroth?

File: final-fantasy-vii-cloud-omnislash.jpg (38KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 640x480px

>>381901659
I don't care about the character of the people in the fandom. I care about facts!
>>381901574
Don't mind me guys. I'm not the manifestation of Sephiroth's will lingering in the lifestream, acting as both a phyiscal and symbolic victory of will for Cloud at the end of our game. I'm actually Jenova lol ;)))

>>381901574
>game has magic
>like legit fucking magic
>trying to talk about the science behind a fucking anime game staring a boy who weilds a sword the size of a bus

FUCK off autist

This has literally turned into a FFdotnet thread.

>>381883289

Jenova was mimicking Sephiroth's form in this scene. Physically, it was Jenova.
Whether Jenova or Sephiroth was in control is a separate question.

WHY IS THIS ALLOWED!? WHY IS THE GAME ALLOWED TO JUST TELL YOU THAT THE SEPHIROTH YOU WERE CHASING WAS JENOVA BEING CONTROLLED BY SEPHIROTH!?

Cloud
"Sephiroth!!!"

(They all run forward and confront him. Sephiroth does not turn around.)

"This is the end!"

"You're right. This is the end of this body's usefulness."

(The area goes dark. Sephiroth disappears, leaving only a pulsating jet of
purple smoke. Cloud's heart pounds in our ears.)

Cloud
"He disappeared!?"

Tifa
"He might still be nearby......"

(The camera pans all around as they look for Sephiroth. They see no sign;
but now there are two jets of smoke. Suddenly, they hear Sephiroth's voice
from... somewhere.)

Our purpose is to deliver the Black Materia to our master.

(Cloud looks around.)

Cloud
"Our...?"

Cid
"Hey, hey, ! What's goin' on?"

(The camera pans wildly. There are now three jets.)

Those who carry Jenova's cells...

Cloud
"Master...!?"

(Four jets.)

Of course... Sephiroth.

(Cloud's heart pounds faster.)

Heh, heh, heh...

(His heart pounds still faster and louder until he falls to his knees. The
light suddenly returns to the area. Sephiroth is hovering above them, his
sword drawn. He descends on the party, knocking them to the ground. He
stands for a moment by the edge of the land bridge, his arms raised to the
sky. Then Cloud stands, slowly. Sephiroth turns to face him, his sword
drawn, and the battle begins.)

(Boss battle with Jenova-DEATH)

:^)

>ITT one faggot responds to his autistic theory over and over

I'm just bailing from this thread before things get even stupider. I suggest everybody do the same.

>>381902384
To those who may have trouble understanding this;

Jenova-DEATH while in the form of Sephiroth outright states to the party that Sephiroth is it's master then attacks the party which begins the boss battle.

It was Sephiroth acting through Jenova.

>>381901916
>all that's left of real sephiroth is some fairy form floating in the lifestream

File: SaferSeph-concept_art.jpg (146KB, 830x1156px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 830x1156px

>>381903016
Well yeah, you just destroyed the body he worked so hard to put back together so he's back to square one

>>381901195
She kind of does manifest, but just in Cloud's head

I think it's cooler if Jenova is the mastermind, too bad Nomura/Square-Enix/etc don't seem to agree. Sephiroth is pretty much confirmed to be the head honcho. It would be neat if the FFVII mythos expanded beyond Gaia and started incorporating the Jenova-type aliens, but it seems like SE is happy with just making different variations of Sephiroth.

>>381883654
Cuckold the chocobo 7

>>381884367
>"Cloud unknowingly holds a fake persona created by the Jenova cells mixing his memories of Zack's personality with the somewhat cocky and selfish attitude he believes a SOLDIER 1st Class would have. However, during the game events he eventually restores his original personality, and shows genuine concern for the Planet's fate, a sharp contrast to his persona at the start of the game where he claimed he didn't care about the Planet and only agreed to help AVALANCHE for the right price."
At least that is what FFVII ultimania says.

File: 1439022422498.jpg (82KB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 512x384px

>>381903674
>I think it's cooler if Jenova is the mastermind

I agree. We learn enough about pre-Lifestream Seph to feel bad for him if this were the case. Given that it isn't, his 180, while believable, just kind of falls flat to me.

>>381903674
>too bad Nomura/Square-Enix/etc don't seem to agree
You forgot the army of Sephiroth fan-girls who SE must please by any cost.

Cloud throwing Sephiroth into the reactor is still one of my favourite scenes in this series.

>>381883289

It's canonically Sephiroth pulling all the strings, though his psyche may subconsciously be under Jenova's primal influence to some extent.

Jenova itself is not sentient, it's just a instinctively shapeshifting parasite.

GIFT OF THE GODDESS

>>381883289
it was a sword.

>>381901625
>tfw he came off as a decent character in Crisis Core because they didn't fuck around with him too much in the first place

File: or83lsEFSW1vengyvo1_1280.jpg (270KB, 1035x1280px) Image search: [Google]

270KB, 1035x1280px

>>381906774

File: 1438524047968.png (981KB, 1280x938px) Image search: [Google]

981KB, 1280x938px

>>381907038

But the fangirls/fujos prefer the theory that Seph was just Jenova's puppet.

>>381884367
The experiments Hojo performed on him messed him up something fierce and gave him some severe memory damage. The Nibelheim incident when he was desperately trying to pretend he was not there so people wouldn't learn he was just a lowly Shinra grunt, coupled with the facts that A - He nevertheless had memories of them, so he obviously was there and B - There was actually a cool Soldier on the spot that embodied everything Cloud wished he was, caused him to end up with fake memories about who he was for a while.

>>381907950
It's a powerful theory, but of all things that Hojo could be wrong and/or lying about I doubt it would be who's in control with regards to Sephiroth/Jenova specifically since he's gloating about it.

>>381883416
Kino

>>381899750
If you were an alien ultra parasite trying to bring all the parts of yourself together, and one sizable part of your DNA stuck inside the strongest warrior on the planet was trapped and unable to move in a giant crystal mass at the area you'd move want to set up shop in, wouldn't you just go there instead?

>>381911591
Yeah. And I'd go there sooner than when that super soldier beckoned me if I could. But Jenova didn't and couldn't. It was comatose until the call to reunion.

Try thinking outside your presuppositions.

Also for the love of CHRIST Square has outright said Sephiroth was in control.

What did it take to reach Soldier first class? I only played 7.

>>381911885
Was Jenova breaking out of the containment unit at Shinra HQ right when Cloud and everyone else was there ever explained or was that just a plot induced coincidence?

Welp, time to go masturbate to Tifa again for the hundredth time.

>>381883289
It was Jenova's body, which was controlled by Sephiroth's will... which, in turn, was controlled by Jenova's will (and so on ad libitum).