Do you think it deserves its reputation as a black sheep of the

it's the Sonic 06 of Mario

>>381792405
Is this bait?
Sunshine is alot better then that buggy mess.

Sunshine was fucking great.
Way better than those Galaxy turds. Sunshine let people explore and do their own thing like a mario game should. Anyone who hates on Super Mario Sunshine is retarded.

It's better than 64.
By a long fucking margin.

People like it for Mario's movement, which is satisfying to master in those secret levels, and the tropical setting. And then they will ignore every other aspect of this game that is kind of crummy.

>>381791362
>calls FLUDDless levels shit

Definitely bait.

Graphics and ambientation are beautiful.
Controls are great.
Some maps were frustrating, but most were good.

Sadly, I'm an autist who loves collecting stuff and the blue coins and lack of a way to keep track of them makes me unhappy.

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64 > Galaxy 2 > Galaxy > Sunshine > 3D World > 3D Land

>>381791362
No, it doesn't

It is the 2nd best 3D Mario game, right after Super Mario 64 of course, and leagues above the barely ok Super Mario Galaxy series

Don't even get me started in everything that came after, Super Mario 3D World is 100% absolute baby tier garbage for retards.

>>381792405
kys

I bet 1000 American loonies that Mario goes back to Delfino in Odyssey

I don't even want to progress through the game just running and jumping around for like 10 minutes is a much better experience

Unless your name is Pannenkoek, Mario's jumping in Sunshine isn't gimped at all. You have the same moveset as 64, just without the new crutch of the Hover Nozzle.

>>381791362
yes

I couldn't even force myself to get all the shines

>>381792748

>More linear
>Less level variety
>Relies on a gimmick
>better

>>381791362
by far my favourite mario game of all time. amazing music,amazing graphics. i spend so much time playing this game just because it was so comfy.

why do people hate it anway?

the fludd sucks

luigi's mansion is a better mario game than sunshine

>>381791362
>Fewer areas than 64
>Can't do missions in a non linear fashion
>FLUDD mitigates platforming
>No Long Jump
>24 Red Coin missions
>20 Shines locked behind Blue Coins which are impossible without a guide
>Hydrophobic Yoshi
>Cleaning a beach
>Extinguishing Piantas
>Playing dentist for an eel
>'I'M A CHUCKSTER!'
>Pachinko Machine
>Lily pad
>Corona Mountain boat segment
>Popping balloons
>Watermelon in Gelato-8
>Ground pounding to get a Durian in Ricco-8
>Many more levels have absolutely nothing to do with platforming
Why do people like it is the better question.

>>381793948
you forget the blue coins

how could you forget the fucking blue coins

>>381792504
The camera is legitimately as bad as Sonic 06

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>It's a contrarian /v/irgins try to call a good game shit episode

>>381794103
>20 Shines locked behind Blue Coins which are impossible without a guide
I didn't forget them though.

>>381794259
>contrarian

People have disliked Sunshine since it came out

>>381794281
I used a guide

and I still missed 6 somehow

>>381793723
A lot of infamously clunky missions including a poor ending level, fludd is actually not used that much considering its the main new feature, blue coin collecting is a pain, terrible Yoshi mechanics.

Nitpicks for some people, deal breakers for others.

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>>381793723
Extremely uneven difficulty and if you want to get all stars the blue coins beat the fun right out of you.

Still my favorite by far.

>>381794259
>It's another "it has mario in the name, so it's a good game" episodes

>>381793393
>You have the same moveset as 64

No fucking long jump.

>>381794259

No, what's contrarian is acting like Sunshine and Wind Waker, and Gamecube games in general, are under-appreciated gems when in reality they're among the worst games in their respective series.

>>381794358
it was bizarre seeing a big mario game get 8s in magazines back then, but Sunshine is that kind of game.

>>381793723
Nobody really "hates" it because there's just a wonderful atmosphere throughout the game that makes people happy when they remember it. Some people will tell you it's the worst 3D Mario, but considering how good all the 3D Marios are, that's not really too bad.

The problem is the game is unfinished, which is why the game is padded out with infuriating blue coins, and a huge amount of the Shines that are in the game aren't even platforming focused, which is out of place in a Mario game.

>>381794240
What the hell are you talking about? It's a shit ton better than the one in Mario 64

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Remember me?

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its the best 3D Mario with the highest skill ceiling and biggest areas to explore

stuff like galaxy is awful, linear, hand holding crap and should have not have gotten higher than 7/10

>>381794103
>>381794436
The blue coins were only a problem if you disliked the coin star in 64, as that required extensive knowledge of the level layout. Here, they had more sort of puzzles behind each coin which I myself can appreciate. But I do agree that those blue coin shines could have gone to more levels/missions

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>>381792982
The truth

>>381794581

Wind Waker was a masterpiece

You're silly

>>381794902
>Best levels from Sunshine are Galaxy-lite
Really makes you think.

>>381795028

Wind Waker is a tedious cartoonish embarrassment.

>>381794902
Galaxy games have amazing level design and are focused as fuck, can't say the same for sunshine as it's movement is the only thing going for it

>>381794358
'people' dislike everything

the majority likes it, some people disliking it will always happen

>>381794516
Where in the game was there a part where the long jump was needed?

>>381795183

>Majority likes it
>One of the poorest selling mainline Mario games ever

How do you defend this reasoning?

>>381795190
The levels with no FLUDD, in particular inside the cannon on Pinna Beach, the final stretch would be a cinch with the long jump, but instead you're crippled

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>>381795125
>Galaxy games have amazing level design

No, they don't. They are roller coaster rides that take you from one simple scenario to the next, with no freedom to explore.

Good level design involves freedom of the player to explore or tackle things in a unique way. Look at Deus Ex, Super Metroid, or Super Mario Sunshine.

>>381794660
if mario wasn't in the title, it would have gotten 5's

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>>381795347
>Sunshine
>Good level design
Is this max contrarianism or max autism?

>>381794723
>Nobody really "hates" it because there's just a wonderful atmosphere throughout the game that makes people happy when they remember it.
I hate it

the tropical atomsphere sucks

>>381792405
If there was a 3D Sonic game as good as Sunshine, it would be far and away the best game in the Sonic series.
Sunshine is a ruby, the rest of the 3D Mario games are diamonds.

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>>381795357
if mario wasnt in the title it would be hailed as one of the best 3D platformers ever

the problem is that people expect hand holding with a Mario game, and instead they got a very challenging game, and they chimped out

This is in stark contrast to Wind Waker, the braindead easiest and shortest 3D Zelda, which is beloved.

>>381791362
It's my favourite 3d Mario.

>>381794923
>The blue coins were only a problem if you disliked the coin star in 64
wrong

coin collecting in 64 took skill, finding the blue coins required you to scour every nook and cranny of sunshines shitty levels

>>381792808
examples?

>>381795482
The easiest Zelda is OoT though.

>>381793723
it has a very noticeable padding issue with lots of red coin missions and all of those blue coins.some people dislike fludd too. personally it's my least favorite 3D Mario but I still like it

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>>381795482
>if mario wasnt in the title it would be hailed as one of the best 3D platformers ever
>this is what sunshine fags actually think

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>>381795412
>Sunshine is too hard!
ok, and thanks for posting the (bad) levels that would inspire Mario Galaxy

Galaxy is just a linear roller coaster ride that takes you from one tiny scenario to the next, there is no creative freedom.

when did it become the black sheep? I see more people put it near the top of their favorite mainline mario games than almost and of the others

>>381795452
all 3d sonic games are better than sunshine

even 06

>>381791362
>Personally I thought it was a piece of shit just for the FLUDDless levels because Mario's jumping was so obviously gimped and you were basically fucking handicapped to where even simple jumps became a chore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVH4EsFi-EU

kill you're self

How feasible is it to play this with a controller that doesn't have analogue triggers?

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>>381794581
So you're trying to tell me that Wind Waker was worse than Skyward Sword, Nu-Skyrim and Hyrule warriors? and that Mario sunshine is worse than the mario bros remakes on the Wii and 3D world?

>>381795608
debatable, but it and wind waker are the easiest.

OOT gets a pass because we were all brand new to 3D console action games, for the audience at the time the difficulty was fine.

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>Sunshine revolves around the FLUDD gimmick
>Best levels are the ones where you don't have the FLUDD

>>381792405
nah at least sonic 06 was bad in a funny way

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>>381791362
It's a great game but has one major flaw and a few minor.

The major flaw is the level variety. Only tropical beach levels was really really lame.

>>381795696
Galaxy's level design blows Sunshine out of the water and constantly changes things up and recontextualizes platforming in almost every world, the creativity behind the design of the levels is amazing.

The only thing Sunshine has going for it is movement and even that's squandered since 80% of the missions don't involve platforming in any meaningful capacity, rather you're chasing after Shadow Mario seven times.

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>>381795797

>>381795770
when it came out

>>381795898

I said "among the worst," which leave plenty of room for Skyward Sword and the DS Zeldas. Breath of the Wild is excellent even with its flaws, so I don't know what your deal is.

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>>381791362
Is this a meme?

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>>381796001
Galaxy's levels do not allow any freedom for the player, you are taken from one tiny section to the next in a hand holding roller coaster. It is very easy and very simple, so the average person will prefer it.

>>381791362
Worst 3D Mario

>>381795608
but muh watertemple

>>381795810
All I want is another adventure platformer with controls and mechanics as tight as sunshine's. That would be perfect

>>381796189
no

"mario sunshine is a good game" is a meme

>>381793538
I think there's a difference between a new mechanic and a gimmick

>>381796197
>it is very easy
So is every Mario game.
At the end of the day Galaxy is a better designed and more fun game to play than an unfinished game that doesn't have the Long Jump in it.

It ruined mario in every smash game until the end of time by forcing that faggot FLUDD on us

>>381796305
did fludd add anything to mario?

no?

then it's a gimmick

>>381791362
It's a mediocre platformer that's only remembered fondly because it was the last open sandbox game in the series.

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>>381796352
Sunshine is not an easy game.

Galaxy has poor design because it takes you from tiny planet to the next, in a hand holding linear roller coaster. You cannot explore. You have very little freedom.

>>381796305

FLUDD is the definition of a gimmick. It's a lazy attempt at expanding gameplay and it only worked for one game, instead of something actually useful like wall jumps, which are even used in the 2D games now.

>>381795307
because majority in this case obviously doesn't mean of all people you nimrod, it means of those that played it

>>381796197
Galaxy 2 is the hardest 3D Mario game and it's levels blow Sunshine out of the water.

I love when people boast Sunshines secret levels as some of the best in the game when they're just proto Galaxy levels.

Also Linearity =/ bad, it works for the type of game he galaxies are trying to make.

Sunshine fails at even that since it's trying to be an explorative game but is way more linear than 64.

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>>381796404
FLUDD added a lot though, webm related.

>>381796598
great controls, terrible game

>>381796532
>Sunshine is not an easy game

Yeah for the wrong reasons. Or are you really going to tell me you enjoyed riding on a slow ass boat as yoshi for 10 minutes to get to that damn lily pad level?

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64 > sunshine > 3d World > galaxy 1&2 > 3d Land

Everyone else opinion is shit tier.

>>381796572

And the people who didn't play it because they were repulsed by it don't count for anything? How convenient for your argument. Sunshine sold terribly for a reason.

>>381796598
he dive jumped up there. fludd is completely useless

>>381796593
Galaxy gives you no freedom to explore, the levels are jumping from tiny planet to tiny planet. The average person may like it, but its pretty braindead.

>>381796532
>Sunshine is not an easy game.
Yes it is.
>Galaxy has poor design
This level alone has going for it than anything in Sunshine, well focused and cleverly designed levels are better than two horizontal planes like in Gelato Beach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtHiVa5kg6E

>>381796598
I love watching videos of people playing video games when you can tell they are 100% autistic

>>381791362
>reputation as a black sheep
Doesn't have that reputation. It was somewhat poorly recieved after 64, but looking back now it was clearly one of the best Mario games ever

>>381796858
All people who play video games are 100% autistic

>>381793723
It's just a bunch of false flaggers, I haven't actually met anyone who hates Sunshine and /v/ bashing it ironically like this is a brand new thing. They're usually not as subtle.

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>>381796803
>well focused

That's a cute word for "hand holding, no freedom to explore".

The level that you posted is just a single linear path. Yawn. Just play I Wanna Be The Guy if you want that.

>>381791362
>Personally I thought it was a piece of shit just for the FLUDDless levels

What? Those were the only good parts of this shitty game.

>>381797038
It's obvious at this point you're just baiting but Sunshine is always going to be the worst 3D Mario game. It wasn't as good of a sandbox as 64 and it wasn't as good as a platformer as the Galaxy games.

>>381797038
The Galaxy games are not explorative games. It's not trying to be such. If it was trying to be that and failed, then maybe you would have an argument.

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>>381796803
Christ, Super Mario Brothers has more openness to its levels than this. How the fuck did these games get 10s?

>>381796710
the point was that anon said "people have disliked sunshine"

well no shit, there will always be people who dislike things.

people dislike puppies, that doesn't mean the majority of people who experience puppies didn't enjoy them. It's not that they don't count it's just that it's a meaningless thing to say.

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>>381797038

MUH EXPLORATION

Reminder that Sunshine will go down as the worst 3D Mario and be forgotten when Odyssey comes out.

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>>381797140
>Y-you're just bait!

Not an argument, the level you posted is just a single linear path. It has no freedom to explore and holds your hand the entire way.

It doesn't even need to be 3D, the camera is fixed at a 2D angle for most of the level anyway.

>Kids who grew up on the Galaxy series are now old enough to post on /v/ and shitpost about Sunshine
I can't wait for Odyssey to come out and for them to complain how its too much like Sunshine and the better parts of the 3D Land series.

>>381797183
>The Galaxy games are not explorative games.

Thank you for finally admitting it. They give no freedom to the player, some levels don't even need to be in 3D.

>>381797396
>It has no freedom to explore
So? It's a platformer, meaning there should be actual platforming.
>holds your hand the entire way.
How?
>>381797434
My second video game ever was Sunshine, it's just not very good.

>Sunshine has no long jump
>people sperg out about this

>Galaxy has no spin jump
>100/100 best game ever made

>>381797434
Nah. Odyssey will actually be a good game unlike Sunshine.

>>381797190
No it doesn't faggot. And Galaxy is far closer in design to the classics than the other 3D games; which most people like even less than 2D Mario.

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>>381797613
>So?

If you want a braindead linear path, the Galaxy games will suit you fine. They let you hop from one tiny section to the next.

They might as well just be 2D games for many of their levels, it wouldn't make a difference.

The game has no freedom to explore and shat all over the legacy of 64 / Sunshine. Thankfully, Odyssey is returning more to the 64 / Sunshine style.

>>381796702
this opinion is correct

>>381797545
Do you need exploration in a linear platforming game? I don't see why you're trying to push that as a negative. Galaxy excels at the area it's targeted towards. You can't say the same for Sunshine, which is supposed to be an explorative game but is much more linear than Sunshine since for every act, you are locked into that specific objective with little freedom with how you tackle a mission because it's already set for you. In 64 you chose a mission but outside of a few exceptions like Koopa the Quick, you could go after any Star. You can't do that in Sunshine

>>381791362
>Do you think it deserves its reputation as a black sheep of the Mario franchise?
Of course because it's the worst mainline game

>>381797774
Sunshine was so bad they dropped that style entirely, similarly 3D World was so bad they are going back to the sandbox style.

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>>381797731
>And Galaxy is far closer in design to the classics

Exactly, Galaxy might as well be a 2D game because most levels are straight linear paths. Thank you for admitting this.

>>381796741
>The average person may like it, but its pretty braindead.

The hardcore gamerz live in their own fantasy world.

>>381797912
>much more linear than Sunshine

Meant 64

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>>381797912
>Not being able to explore is a feature!

It's a flaw, and Galaxy games aren't very good.

Thankfully, Mario Odyssey is rejecting every "argument" you're making.

>>381798053
So Zelda on the NES is objectively better than Majora's Mask because you can explore more in it?

>>381797932
Not really. Being 3D or not has nothing to do with linearity. Besides, 2D Mario is better than 3D Mario. Only "hardcorez" like the 3D Mario, while the 2D Marios crush them in sales.

>>381793723
Shitload of filler is what kills it for me. SM64 had 90 stars worth of non-100 coin stars across 15 courses. Sunshine had 56 non-100 coin across 7 courses. It's nearly half the game 64 was, filling the gaps with an obnoxious amount of blue coins and "find and spray the golden creature".

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>>381798154
Majoras Mask has plenty of room to explore, it is not similar to Galaxy which gives you zero freedom.

Cute strawman but it didn't work. Keep trying.

https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/790950959006441472?lang=en

>>381798285
>Majoras Mask has plenty of room to explore
Not compared to Zelda on the NES, which makes Majora's Mask braindead linear garbage.

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>>381798381
both games give the player freedom, they are fine.

Galaxy gives the player 0 freedom.

It's a cute strawman, keep trying.

>>381795446
Well that's just a contrarian opinion

>>381797774
Odyssey looks like it'll be similar to Galaxy in various worlds and only a few are 64 esque..

>>381798279
Forgot about the red coin secret course parts of each level. So that brings it up to 70 in 7.

The fact that a unique set of 50 shrines is required to beat the game, and that the game doesn't tell you that the blue coins and secret stars are glorified collectibles, single handedly ruins the game for a lot of people.
People only played the levels in 64 and Galaxy they enjoyed, but they ended up playing way more Sunshine than they would have wanted.
It's why people shit on the controls and camera, even though there's barely anything wrong with them.
It's why reviewers scored it relatively low, since they needed to beat it quickly and kept wasting their time.
And it's why /v/ likes it, because /v/ is full of autist completionists who aren't affected by the difference.

>>381798530
Well as long as they're not sunshineesque

>>381798487
So you haven't played the game, plenty of worlds in Galaxy are open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHzWvVOfoMM

>the linearity is bad meme
Here we go again

>shrines
Ugh, I've been playing too much zelda.

>>381793723
>Less levels than 64
>Locked into missions you can't do out of order

It's a shit game m8

>>381791362
>Black sheep
The only "reputation" it has is from autists on /v/ that shit on it for no good reason. Those same autists that dismiss the entire game because
>if I want to 100% the game I need to collect blue coins!

>>381798737
Only a few of them are.

Just like Sunshine has a few Galaxy levels.

But really, Galaxy gives the player no freedom to explore, most levels are linear paths.

>>381798657
>It's why reviewers scored it relatively low
It's sitting at a 92 on Metacritic, when the game is more like an 82. I'd say they scored it pretty high when the only thing it has going for it is graphics, fluidity of control and the last 3D Mario OST to be led by Koji Kondo.

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>>381791362
>Love 64
>Love Galaxy
>Hate Sunshine
Is there something wrong with me?

>>381798737
Yes and in Galaxy 2 there were even less and it was an evolution that got us to 3D land where there was none.

Odyssey is supposed to bring us back "64/Sunshine" but it seems closer to the first Galaxy that has a few open spaces but still plenty of linear "3D".

>>381796710
If you didn't play the game, your opinion on the quality of the game is invalid. Most people who played sunshine enjoyed it, most critics liked it. I can't remember any critics or any of my friends at the time saying it was shit.

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>>381798893
>Just like Sunshine has a few Galaxy levels.
Which are agreed upon to the best in the entire game since they have actual platforming in them.

>>381791362
>>381798869
The game is a complete and utter chore to 100% and is just not worth it. This is absolutely irrefutable. By the time you beat Bowser, you might as well stop playing or engage in negative fun.

>>381792738
Galaxy would have been a good game if they just let you use a GameCube or Wii Classic controller instead of the waglanshit.

>>381799129
The only reason to 100% it is to get a shirt. Actually, I don't even remember if that's what you get for 100% any longer.

>>381799304
It's not. The 100% reward is the postcard

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>>381799304
You get this.

>>381799304
You get the shirt for beating the final boss I think

>>381799459
>>381799536
>>381799607
Thanks for correction.

So, /v/, which song triggers you more?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF522Q4k9t8
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7PD2rYX5k

>>381799882
Sky & Sea
Secret Levels are great, Sky Levels are nothing but bullshit

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>>381799882
*blocks your path*

How much shame is there in looking up where the blue coins are? I'm about to kill myself looking for the last few.

>>381791362
>black sheep
It is unironically the best 3D mario game.

I liked slowly making the city sunny again. It was really satisfying for some reason.

>>381800495
Literally no shame whatsoever
There's 240 of the fucking bastards, and I can guarantee that even with the guide, you'll still be looking for the last few for a long time

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>>381800526
No, this is.

>>381795898
Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff.

Should I skip Galaxy 1 for 2?

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>>381800014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbUtGBcBCY

>>381796598
>You will never get past sunshines shit controls to unlock this movement
Feels bad man

>>381800526
this
It controls better, and has the most well-designed maps. Blue coins were pretty much the only bad idea. That and that it was obviously somewhat unfinished. A true MGS5 of its time.

>>381801035
No
Galaxy 2 is pretty much an expansion pack for 1
Not to mention Galaxy 2 is even more linear and empty than Galaxy 1
Galaxy 2 is good, but you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't play 1

>>381801259
>empty than Galaxy 1
It's actually a lot more filled with content with more worlds and more unique stars.

>>381792405
if sunshine is the 06 than the galaxy games are the BooM

We all know Odyssey will be the real 06

Sunshine was the best and deserves a sequel

>>381801550
The worst 3D mario game is 3x better than the best 3D sonic game

>>381801692
>3D land better than Sonic the Fighters
Nah

>>381801373
>more worlds
That are all empty and have a total of 4 planets in the entire galaxy (of which you only visit 3 for any particular mission)
>more unique stats
Green Stars are literally the dumbest thing in the entire game
"Here, replay this random mission and long jump off this particular edge to get a star"
Not to mention that having EVERY galaxy have a Prankster Comet let them put in even less effort into the main galaxies

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>>381801812
>3D Land
>Bad
Have a pity (You).

>>381801963
>Shovelware Mario
>Better than Shovelware Virtua Fighter
Nah

>>381802206
>3D Land
>Shovelware
You don't know what one of those things are.

>>381801963
>all he does is jump like 12 times and do a single roll
So fucking boring

>>381802338
It is honest to god the most underwhelming game I have ever played from the Mario Franchise. A bore from beginning to end. Not a single interesting platforming segment. I've played iOS platformers with more engaging and indepth level design.

>>381798053
>not being able to explore in a course based game that isn't based around exploration is a flaw
you're a fucking idiot

>>381802757
You must not have played Color Splash.

>>381802872
I didn't desu

>>381791362
It absolutely deserves that reputation.

>>381796256
Odyssey?

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>>381804187
Movement isn't as good as Sunshine's though.

>>381792825
Not really. I'm pretty sure a lot of people at the time of release hated the FLUDDless levels, myself included. They were such a pain in the ass after the game conditioned you to rely so heavily on FLUDD.

I know where your coming from though. Among those who still like to talk about sunshine, I've been seeing a recent trend of people praising those levels the most.

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*blocks your path*

>>381797926
Their biggest game of the year is going back to that style though.

>>381792982
>compares a level based 3ds game to the rest of the true 3d marios

?

someone post the Gelato-8 gif of the watermelon making it from the top of the hill to the judge in one go

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>>381805216

>>381805083
>True 3D
>World
>Galaxy 2

>>381804315
how would you know?
have you played the game?

>Do you think it deserves its reputation as a black sheep of the Mario franchise?

Yeah, it's clearly not finished. There's far worse 3D platformers but only Gamecube children think it's anywhere near the top as far as Mario games go.

>>381805953
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SWKUt_Cus&feature=youtu.be

>>381806229
he said that it's the best feeling game since sunshine. he never said anything about it feeling worse than sunshine as he only said 64 has better movement.

>>381806512
And Sunshine had better movement than 64.

>>381806643
the controls were better but mario's movement was better in 64

>>381797038
If I wanted to explore I would play Zelda, not Mario. Those small disconnected worlds do nothing for me. Linear platforming Mario games are where it's at.

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>>381807295
>Linear platforming Mario games are where it's at.
/thread

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>>381794808
ざわ‥ ざわ‥

>>381793538
Controls way better, looks better, sounds better, better level design, more life to the game.
Sunshine is better than 64.

>>381809952
>better level design
Objectively wrong, there's a reason 64 has more speed runners.