http://www.teamfortress.com/post.ph p?id=30147 Final nail i

I don't disagree with any of their changes aside from the panic attack if I used it

>This is not the complete list of changes. Some items (and classes) are still being worked on, and are not ready for review.
Too soon to say. But spergs gotta sperg.

I feel like a lot of the nerfs are unwarranted, or too heavy-handed.
But I haven't played in a while, so what do I know.

>>381779398
Call me when they bring back sv_pure 0 to valve servers

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>"Sandman ball impacts no longer remove the victim's ability to fire their weapon"

>>381779792
I'm thinking the same thing after reading the patch notes. Looks like there going to take a page out of Riot's book and nerf the fuck out of everything.

This will be the nail in the coffin for TF2.

>>381779610
sperging about the previewed balance changes is a good measure to stop them ever being implemented

>>381780004
This is probably my biggest gripe with the updates. What's the point in using it if it doesn't stun players?

>>381780004
That's fine, that weapon has been nothing but cancer since it was introduced.

>>381780121
But I want them to be implemented. Especially the Spy and Scout ones.

Spy is no longer a viable class if you take away DR and you know it.

>>381780436
lol

>>381780436
shit maybe then idiots will stop picking him!

>>381780436

Only good spies will still play the class. The only thing this is doing is making sure that bad spies can't be successful with their crutch watch.

>>381780210
t. heavy main

>>381780210
It was only a nuisance to people who are faggots (read heavies)

>>381780436
>12yr spy main sperging out
DR is a crutch item and it's absolutely stupid.

I'm absolutely ok with every single change with spy, heavy and soldier.
Others need a bit more thinking.

>>381780004
Remember when the Sandman could stun ubered players?

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this last week has been the first time I've had trouble finding a server that has 6+ people. I think traffic is actually going down

>>381780918
Traffic has increased because of summer break by a few thousand. There's probably just a bunch of people playing community servers

>>381780436
dead ringer should be moved to sapper slot and have speed boost removed. Trading utility for survivability would be fair

Bonk change is weird. I'm aware of the problem, but is it really a good solution to slow Scout down to Heavy speeds?

>>381779398
>amby
>First-shots are no longer perfectly accurate
fuck off valve

>>381781161
Fuck you, no. I don't want spies trying to be combat classes and not helping anyone but themselves any more than they already do. Already hard enough to get a spy to sap an unattended building as he walks by it disguised because he's trying to get kills instead.

I would love for the matchmaking to make sense.
>Be at level 54
>Stuck playing with people with level 10 or 20
Wouldn't it be better to put players with the same level against eachother? I'm kinda sick of either pubstomping or having my team losing despite the fact I have more score alone than both teams put together.

>DR dead
Maybe people will finally notice that spy has another escape mechanism called Kunai. But I suppose this one is badwrong because it punishes failure.

>>381781301
>I'm kinda sick of either pubstomping or having my team losing despite the fact I have more score alone than both teams put together.
iktfb

>>381779398
neither, its just life support

>>381781165
>the problem
WHAT PROBLEM
FUCK YOU

>>381780626
I'll drop my modesty for a second and say I'm quite a good spy. And I can swear to god I almost never used the DR. I used it only in trade servers to practise a little with it but ultimately I always preferred all other watches.

Threadly reminder that b4nny "Pyro is only airblast spam" the Scout main is going to nerf Pyro into pure irrelevance.

Pyro winning instead of Heavy was the final nail in this game's coffin.

>>381781301
Because level has no bearing on ability.

Level is number of games played. And there's tons of other ways to fudge how much xp you get in a match and level up super fucking quick.

>>381780436
You can tell everyone moved on from this garbage game because there's not a single sane reply. Spy is a fucking joke. Always was, always will be. There's no such thing as a good Spy, only someone willingly taking a handicap.

>>381781301
Why would you want skill segregation in casual? The whole idea of that mode is to throw yourself into the melting pot. Valve already confirmed an elo system for their comp, so this will be what you want.

>yfw they don't actually change anything about the pyro that would require more than five seconds worth of coding

>>381781521
Heavy is good as it is. A serviceable class for newbies and a solid choice for veterans.

>>381781521
>class with a niche and actual lethality doesn't need an overhaul as much as a almost useless class
Really activates those almonds

>>381781506
>take away airblast crutch combos
>give pyro combat utility and mobility options
but thats exactly what i want

>>381781410
The problem of having an immortality button with no downsides.

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>>381781619
>a solid choice for veterans.

>>381779398
How many file nails does TF2 need? It's been shit since Mannconomy.

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>>381781161
Ah yes, lets make it so spys can still have their crutch but also have a normal invis watch and still be even less useful to the team overall, sounds perfect

>>381781619
>a solid choice for veterans.
I can tell no one in this thread played TF2 for more than a year.

>>381781593
So I have to play "Soldier/Scout/Medic" Fortress 2 to be able to play with people as good as me?
No way I'm going to put myself in the autism of meta and competitive play. And go figure, I don't want to play with scrubs either. Why there can't be a middle ground, holy shit?

>>381781670
>thinking pyro will get any buffs
Oh you

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>>381781695
>he can't track

>>381781745
>>381781695
I bet you can't aim for shit nor take care of yourselves without a medic behind your ass.
Pathetic.

>>381781785
>he can't rocket jump

>>381781908
Did you actually mention rocket jumping as if it was anything complicated?

>>381781785
>>381781856
>aiming with Heavy is a challenge
Scratch that, maybe 6 months.

>>381779398
>Sandman is new Sun-on-a-stick
>14 yo Spy mains on suicide watch
>weapons being nerfed just because they're used often
>some other rebalances nobody asked for
Classic Valve - 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards

>>381780210
I've never had problems with being stunned though, normally Scouts that get the stun do it from a distance where you can shuffle out of the way, and the rare occasions where you got 10 seconds of standing there like a moron means you just got goofed on, which shouldn't mean much since you'll likely have your teammates around to help

>>381781992
Did you actually mention tracking as if it was anything complicated?

>Ambassador nerfed into the ground
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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>>381780436
>>381780626
Spy is frankly so fucking shit against any player with an IQ above tepid water that it doesn't matter what they do. DR is a crutch, but so are half the soldier unlocks. Honestly, as an IW fag, the only change that legit pisses me off is the Ambassador. You needed that perfect shot for engiefags that built up well, and it feels like they're limiting the class's skill ceiling by taking away their range potential, and punishing people that invested time to get good at the weapon.

>>381781301
if you think casual level in matchmaking directly correlates with skill, you are a shit player. fuck off

>>381782192
Well apparently you can't do it. Case in point: you fail to see how heavy can be useful in some situations.

>>381782006
but I didn't say it was a challenge
which makes your post even more embarrassing

>>381782280
>t. retarded competitivefag

>>381782273

>Dark Tower reference

Patrician taste.

>>381782283
practically any situation a heavy is useful in another class outperforms him. we're talking about VETERANS you say?

>>381779398
The only thing that could save TF2 is removing everything they put in after the launch, minus the bugfixes. And making it paid again.

>Sandman is too fun, makes unskilled players mad
>Make it less fun
;_;

>Completely changing the Danger Shield

What's the fucking point of it anymore?

>>381782359
>aim for shit
Yes, you did. So these are the people playing shooters these days. No wonder OW was a success with that skill ceiling.

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>>381779398
>modern valve

>>381782518
maybe if you would read the changes, you can imagine how might it be used

>>381782506
>Sandman is too fun, makes unskilled players think they are good at playing Scout
Fixed.

>>381781691
The rest of you get one hit kills, sentries, burn and tons of health, fuck off.

>downsides
Not plinking you for 11 damage at middle/far distance is my downside.

They literally said in the headline that these are not final and they want your input. If you have better ideas, go write them.

>>381782418
i dont touch the matchmaking outside of casual with a stack of friends. but considering im level 6 or something and an old div1 player id definitely say that it doesnt correlate. and from people i know and still play they would also say this

>>381782613
>maybe if you would read the changes
wow, wow, slow down. READING? Are you crazy. I just check the stat changes and jump to /v/ to complain. Who cares about reading?

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>>381779398
>Final nail in the coffin or will this save TF2?
This was the final nail in the coffin for TF2. Valve doesn't give a shit about TF2 anymore anyway. TF2 hasn't seen any first party content in years. Steam workshop and CSGO killed this game.

>>381782542
but I never used the words "aim for shit"
are you incapable of holding a conversation with more than one person, AND incapable of tracking? that's rough

>>381782707
i dont even know how read

>>381782731
That's even worse, the only remotely fast things in this game are explosive jumping Soldiers and Demos.

>>381782718
>All those legit good weapons ideas
>Hurr we don't accept them as new weapons with unique effects, we will release them only as skins

>>381779398
I wouldn't mind the sandman changes if they didn't nerf the cleaver's only real use.

>>381782613
Flares were never a fucking problem, and if a Pyro is up in your face then you're dead anyway. They changed a good item to a useless one.

>>381782518
It's a shitty crutch.
And they're turning it into a shitty crutch.

PROGRESS

>>381782684
Every dev in the industry gets the majority of their feedback from /v/ threads.

>>381783159
I mean write them in the contact form on their website.

>>381783252
I know what you meant

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>>381780683
>>381780745
>>381782081
When did the "stun is good" meme begin? It's been widely accepted as an intrinsically shitty design since day 1 and literally everything since was just about mitigating the trainwreck without outright throwing out the weapon. It's not even about it being overpowered or anything, it's just an awkward fun stopper.

>>381783608
>implying stopping other people's fun isn't fun

>>381783608
When competitive Scouts become a meme so big people began to take it seriously.

>>381783608
>It's been widely accepted as an intrinsically shitty design since day 1
Other than release when it would totally deadstop you and stun ubered players too, I haven't seen people bitch about it.

>>381783608
t. got stunned

>No Pyro nerfs

Dare I say it lads, but is he /our guy/?

>>381783980
Reminder that Pyro became the best counter for Pyro.

the fact that these changes are so complex is the reason tf2 is dying

it's way too inaccessible

the more valve tries to balance weapons, the less possible it is to describe what each weapon does in a single sentence.

there's a reason overwatch has overtaken tf2 in popularity despite tf2 having way more content, being free, and having modding support: it's accessible

most people don't have time to listen to a 40 minute dissertation on what all of the soldier's different melee weapons do. they'd rather play overwatch where they know pressing shift as pharah means you do a free rocket jump and that every pharah in the game has the exact same skill set no matter what

>>381784142
>the fact that these changes are so complex is the reason tf2 is dying
>it's way too inaccessible
There's nothing complex in those changes, if you got at least two neurons working. The fuck?

>>381783608
waifufags from overwatch like to defend Mei so they have to convince themselves that stun is good in all games when its clearly not

>>381779398

>final nail in the coffin

>most changes seem alright except the base jumper, eviction notice and cleaver changes

Every saying it's gonna die is a bitchy spy main, and they deserve to suffer anyway.

>>381784263
t. got stunned

>>381784142
>unironically using the term inaccessible
>especially in the context of some very simple balance changes
this is how I know you're a shitter

>nerfing good shit
>instead of buff bad shit
If everything is good then nothing is bad.

>>381784231
Not him, but, too complex for the game is not the same as difficult to understand.

No matter how silly you think it is, making a game stupidly simple and having weapons that work on that simplicity is something that will turn off the userbase which is mostly casual

>>381784306
t. waifufag that has 500 hours playing mei in overwatch just using the sit emote in the spawn room and ERPing in the text chat (not in voice chat because then everyone would know that they're male and their girl voice doesn't pass at all)

>>381784423
Hold up, are you telling me casuals might go away after these changes? Because that's exactly what I need.

>>381784417
>good shit
More like useless shit nobody should use to begin with.

Umm sweeties, good luck killing that engie nest of 10 sentries when your teams too retarded to know how to kill them.

>>381784417
except they're buffing panic attack, your eternal reward, pocket pistol, guillotine, mantreads, and every minigun
so uhh, yeah. cool.

>>381784482
I don't play overwatch :^)

>>381784543
A game that doesn't get new players is a dying game.

>>381784410
i'll put it simply for you:

in tf2, you see a soldier

you don't know what that soldier is capable of just by looking at him

you see his primary and have an idea of what that MIGHT do.

you don't know what his secondary or melee weapon is or what passive effects they might have on him

especially since the stats on tf2's weapons are ever-changing because of valve's shitty balance

in overwatch, you see pharah and know exactly what pharah can do

that's why overwatch is more successful than tf2

There's nothing that can save TF2 anymore.
Valve needs to realize that, yes, sitting on their ass will make them plenty of money via steam, but by investing in TF3 they can potentially take back half of Overwatch's audience which they can sell crates to once again for even more money.

But Valve also realizes that people will not accept a game with a 3 in it if it's not Half Life first. L4D3 is probably complete or near complete but they can even announce it since it would piss people off.

>>381784707
I'd rather get few good players than hundreds of shit ones. And if the game die, let it be. It's time.

Too many of the changes just feel like they are lowering the skill cap of the game. A lot of the things being changed, like the sandman and the ambassador are not OP at all, but if you were skilled with them you could do very well. Now the 'potential' of these weapons is converging towards a point where it doesn't matter if you're that good with them or not, the skilled players will perform closer to the average player with them after the change.

I'm really mad about the sandman change, you already lose health just for using it. It was not op at all, most people are complete shit with it.

>>381779398
>panic
not sure about that
>dr
fucking finally, most needed change
>amby
good
>yer
still wont be used
>sandman
good
>bonk
unusuable now
>ppb
sounds too good
>cola
ok
>atomizer
ok
>guilliotine
good
>base
good
>mantreads
still shit, but thats fine
>dds
good
>razorback
good
>vita
useless now
>crossbow
wasn't needed, but ok
>miniguns
>buffing them
>gru
nearly a straight upgrade and too strong
>eviction
whatever
>fos
good
>rr
good

>>381784696
yeah i wouldn't call erping in spawn rooms playing the game either. at least you admit it. meifag.

>>381784543
>Hold up, are you telling me casuals might go away after these changes? Because that's exactly what I need.

Stop and think past the immediate consequences. Support for this game comes through the vast majority of players being casual. Most of the users are casual. Without them, the game is dead. If you want a dead game, then say so. Or you can stop playing. But if you want to keep playing and want the game to continue getting worked on, you need the casuals you shake your fist in anger at who are probably more important than its hardcore base.

More to the point:
TF2 is at its heart, casual. They aren't invading "your game." You are invading theirs.

>>381784664
If you and your team have difficulties with a sentry nest, you deserve to lose. End of the story.

>>381784764
There's literally nothing stopping you from joining PUGs/joining a league and playing with good players right now.

>>381784764
>And if the game die, let it be. It's time.
Then uninstall and don't play if you don't want to anymore.

>>381784664

Demo.

Soldier.

If there's like 5 or more you're fucked unless it's a good map with more than one way to the objective.

>>381784794
The things I disagree with are biased but, the guillotine sucks on its own. It needs the combo or it's practically worthless

>>381784928
>Implying demo or soldier can handle a nest of sentries without an engie just walking into their face and shooting them or just deleting the stickies

>>381784708
i'll put it more simply for you:

overwatch is new

team fortress 2 is 10 years old, not an MMO, still receives updates and has already busted many people's longevity estimations

Do you honestly believe that what you wrote is what people will respond with when they tell you why they play OW or have moved on from TF2?

>cant snipe people with ambassador anymore

well thats my favourite playstyle dead

I'm guessing because I never played comp in a game not designed around comp, but I miss when the game wasn't balanced. Part of the entertainment value in TF2, for me at least, was tossing weapons together in my loadouts with all the various abilities and passive effects and seeing what happened. Demo Knight was entertaining to fuck around with before all the swords were gutted, which makes no sense for a sub class mostly created as a joke. Now I won't deny some weapons and loadouts were outright busted and a pain to deal with, it'd be ignorant to say otherwise; just I found a lot more entertainment in how weapons worked a few years ago in comparison to now.

>>381784795
Last word in

>>381785029

Nobody fucking knows how to use the sc or aim as engie in pubs, odds are they're all grouped up in a corner somewhere and you can just blast them away easily.

>>381785209
Or you could play sniper to snipe snipers. And use spy like it should be used, sneaking behind snipers.

>>381785221
>I miss when the game wasn't balanced.
Hello my friend.
Please kill yourself.
Thank you.

>>381785335
Balancefags are the true cancer.

>>381785221
Lucky for you TF2 never got balanced.

>>381785412
Would you kindly consider my advice?

>>381785327
umm good luck killing them sweetie when they have overheal and a razorback

>>381785335
>Please kill yourself.
What'd I do to offend you?

>>381785465
True, even now it's not that balanced, but it did use to be worse. I miss the worst.

>>381785504
It's okay, he'll die eventually from the leukemia you just gave him.

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>>381785504
If you buy my game.

>>381785221
Honestly, TF2 is still unbalanced as fuck.
Every class that isn't Scout, Soldier or Medic is virtually useless. Spies tend to be more offensive and careless instead of sneaky and strategic. People pick Pyro to kill other Pyros.

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TF2 was at its pinnacle of perfection before they added the enforcer, you cannot refute this.

>>381785547
>What'd I do to offend you?
Serious case of being wrong on an important topic.

>>381785621
That's is certainly not fast enough.

>>381785542
It takes literally two shots of the stock revolver, four with overheal. If you can aim (and considering you are an ambassador user, yes, you can aim) it shouldn't be an issue.

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>>381782836
literally stomping on the creators hearts with unnecessary blandness cuz "muh competitive edge in quickplay"

>>381785798
Good luck aiming with the shit spread on the stock revolver

>>381783852
Not to mention it worked at even incredibly short ranges, so you'd constantly be stunned.

>>381785876
It's not about luck, sweetie. It's about git gud, eat shit and stop crying

>>381784142
the changes are making the game simpler you fucking barnacle

>LETS NERF EVERYTHING LMAO
Valve is Riot Games

>>381785943
Well actually the minimum range required for stun was changed, wasn't it? Didn't it originally have a much longer time before it would stun?

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>>381784708
>holy shit he's not baiting

>>381786070
>Didn't it originally have a much longer time before it would stun?
I could have sworn the very first release let you stun at almost any range. It happened at unreasonably short ranges at some point, while they kept tweaking it anyways.

>>381786065
buffed: 10
nerfed: 15
(nerfs and buffs are not all equal)
What is your problem, exactly?

>>381785876
ummmmmmmmmmm, no, sweetie pie. the first shot always is 100% accurate with the revolver, you have no excuse.

>>381784030
>Initiate Pyro v Pyro battle
>walk and spray backwards so they get the full particle load and win
that's it, or just become a shotgun Pyro and lmao at people stuck with flare guns

>>381786065
I didn't read anything and I jump to conclusions: the post

>>381785718
Well sorry if you don't agree. TF2 can have balance, but I don't agree with the steps they've been taking to achieve that balance. Does that sound better?

>>381786283
Someone else pointed something else out.

That the wrap assassin will have the same cooldown as the sandman.

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>>381779398
>everyone talking about the items
>I just want new maps

>>381786550
Now imagine both Pyro doing it.
>Not going out wih your melee weapon
Casual

>>381784664
>>381785542
>>381785957
>>381786516
Cringe.

>>381786615
Anon, you and I both know that people will just always vote for rematches in 2fort, Dustbowl, Mountain Lab and Turbine until the end of time

>>381786615
Whoever designed Sunshine and thought it was a good map needs to be shot in the head.

>>381786707
I was just parrotting him to mock him, fuck you.

>>381786615
>you will never play on the server back before they made a hard cap on how many players you could have
I want my 24v24 dusbowl clusterfuck fest

>>381786615
TF2 has a massive mapping community. What are you doing, playing exclusively on Valve servers?

This is why matchmaking sucks, it destroyed peoples' ability to find nice custom servers.

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Isn't this game dead?

That new matchmaking shit completely killed my will to play the game.

>>381787082
The way to find serversby yourself didn't change in the slightest. The option is still there, just slightly hidden.

>>381787082
the matchmaking system killed the custom servers. We used to have a fuckton of them before they took the ability for casuals to drop into them.

I'll admit, I was surprised at how important casuals were for the community servers

>>381781584
Spy is good, however it is not a class that should be played for the entire duration of the round. Once you've achieved your objective or breaking a nest or whatever you should switch to something more useful.

They should give the Heavy the stock walking speed of the Soldier, he's the slowest class by such a wide margin it's stupid

>>381787217
>The option is still there, just slightly hidden.
That's enough to be a problem, because even if you're smart enough to find it yourself, that's no guarantee anyone else will. You can't populate a server by yourself.

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Pic related is about assassinating targets with low-ish HP by delivering a single precise powerful shot.
What i would do is make it so that the thing does more damage the less HP the target is missing.
Make it so that, no matter the class, if you are at 102 or less and you get headshot with this, you die.
But for every health point above that, the damage becomes less and less, like a HS on a full HP guy would do like 30-40 damage.
Not sure how to make the scaling work on different classes with different HP pools but i think it's a good idea.
a double HS on a scout would still kill him if he's not healed at least a little bit (which has counterplay now scout has mad milk or pocket pistol to heal himself over that critical 102)

i play every class but i agree there are things that just aren't fun to play against. i am glad things such as stunning from the fastest projectile in the game is being removed, surely being able to fucking slow them down will be enough as a more supportive role as opposed to "i win if i manage to hit with the fastest fucking projectile in the game" item. i hope weapons like direct hit and reserve shooter get reworked too, direct hit is easy as fuck to land shots due to simply being faster which should be enough, doing extra damage is pretty stupid as well as minicritting for some reason. anyways i think this update really is focusing on making one of the weaker classes in the game, pyro, viable for actually doing the jobs hes pretty much been forced to do (spy checking) as well as solidifying other roles (such as heavy with his buff which will only support him as a counter of pyro). i think this update could be great

>>381787225
This. The one thing TF2 had over OW was the ability to play with a group of regulars on custom servers. Nowadays everyone just hops in MM / QM and the old communities died off.

>>381784708
no I get what you're saying
in fact I used to think the same as you
but then I thought about it for a while and realized I would much rather swap out an individual trait of a particular character I like then play a completely different character with a completely different set of skills
the weapon system is more subtle, and allows for smaller tweaks in your customization. and that's why it's better, in my opinion

>>381787320
>that's no guarantee anyone else will
Getting really sick of all this apologism towards stupid people. Why can't natural selection do its course?

>>381787412
Like it or not, stupid people fill servers. And I'd rather play against stupid people than run around an empty server.

>>381785876
>Not using the Diamonback
>Not killing some clueless heavy or demoman before you reach the sniper
>Not shooting two or three crits in his ass, killing him with overheal or not
Jesus, you people REALLY can't play Spy for shit.

>>381786853
umm sweetie? Did you just assume my gender? You fucking cis white male scum?

>>381779398
another update where valve lays gentle kisses on precious baby Soldier mains perpetually ouchie'd buttcheeks while whispering to them that of course they'll always be protected and cherished.

>>381780769
That was the best

>>381779398
they should honestly give the game to another dev/the community at this point. Valve REALLY doesn't give 2 shits about the game anymore because everyone's working on VR. It honestly feels live manatee balancing, just picking random changes for weapons that don't really make sense (I.E, the Danger shield turning into a pyro counter for some odd reason and removing the crit on stun from the guillotine). Not only that, but their explanations make fucking no sense for the most part. If they wanted to reduce the effectiveness of pocketed snipers, then why the fuck would they make changes to the razorback. If anything, they'd just say that for the danger shield.
Not to say that everything they'd changed is horrible, though. The dead ringer and rescue ranger nerfs were needed.

>>381787389
I have literally only two servers I regularly go on with the same people, otherwise I fuck around on sky or the deathrun/hale/prophunt servers

I'm surprised that nobody's really pissed off over the Vita Saw nerf.

I find it downright retarded, as now it'll just be a weaker Ubersaw.

>>381780436
It was never a viable class, sniper does everything spy does but better

>>381787561
>Using the shittiest spy gun

LMAOing at you

>>381787385
I'd make it so that every shot that misses reduces the headshot damage by 10%

>>381787385
That's a good idea but you should also make the cooldown time slightly longer. Otherwise you'd see Spies just spamming headshots regardless.

>>381787724
t. Frontier Justice engineer

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>>381787193
>le dead game! xd
TF2 has slightly lowered over the last while, but over the long run it has barely dropped in its overall player base. It just isn't the 1st or 2nd most played game on Steam anymore because Dota 2 and CS go brought in playerbase numbers like no other game ever did. The amount of people playing games on steam has drastically increased over the last 5 years, but people haven't really left TF2 in huge numbers yet.

>>381787724
But anon, I'm not talking about the Ambassador.

>>381787829
Yeah, was thinking about that.
Maybe a super low secondary ammo count?
6+6 reserve so that you can kill MAYBE 2 people, 3 if you are incredibly good at aiming?
I think that that the almost 1 second delay is pretty long already.

>>381787874
honestly i still dont think more players instantly means a game isn't dead. most players in the game are completely new somehow, none of them know how to play, most games somehow feel like botmatches on easy mode. thats dead to me, quake live feels less dead than tf2 outside the competitive scene/lobbies

>>381788143
This. When people say that a game is dead, they aren't talking about the user traffic.
They are talking about something more.

>>381788143
>>381788297
>but DUDE!, I don't need to see evidence. It just FEELS like it's dead somehow, you know!?
Just because the server/community you used to play with isn't around anymore doesn't mean there aren't a lot of good servers with good people playing.

>>381788440
TF2 died with the mannconomy. What you see now is a zombie version of the same game. Like modern Simpsons.
You still have fun playing it? Godd for you. Still dead. Get over it.

>>381788440
im not even a person constantly saying "le tf2 is dead" i still play it all the time. its just not fun, people playing don't seem to be trying to learn how to play at all and again, i have more fun on difficulty level 3 botmatches than most games because players are that bad. i consider this dead because how else would you describe a playerbase of lifeless easy bots

Just make the Ambassador Minicrit at long distances, why is this so difficult.

>>381779398
>Final nail in the coffin
TF2 has been dead since F2P. The competitive update was them digging up the body and reburying it. Who still plays enough to actually care about this update?

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>>381779398
>remove every character except Soldier, Scout, Demoman and Medic
there, I fixed the game

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>>381779398
This is just bizarre. The more I read these posts the more awful changes seemed to be made. The DR getting nerfed again, bonk getting turned into something that basically marks the scout for death after using it, the sandman being described as a skillless weapon that needs to be nerfed while the huntsman goes untouched, the atomizer being turned into a fucking flying melee weapon know one will ever use (why do they do so much to encourage melee centric play? It's retarded), the razorback being turned into an anti-pyro weapon by reducing fire damage when a pyro's greatest advantage of a snipe is airblast anyways, and simultaneously bringing back the issue that all a sniper needs to do to kill another sniper is get one headshot instead of shooting consistently, well I could go on. My god these changes are so drastic and so awful in most cases I really think some were done with malicious intent.

>>381789049
How about it deals normal damage at long distances, cunt.

>>381787874
You do realize most of those are bots, third worlders, and poorfags, right?

>>381779398
are there any friendly fire servers left? it was the only way i ever enjoyed this game

>>381788440
It has a lot of players but what does that mean? The old community is dead. The new community is filled with children, BRs, and retard memespouters.

It's fucking dead, Anon.

>>381787561
>using the Diamondback
MY ABSOLUTE NIGGA

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>TF2 died when [thing]!
Please stop

>>381789201
t. antifun compfag

>>381779398
>Scout, the most balanced class with the most well rounded kit that needs the least changes gets a fucking book of changelogs. Sun on a Stick still sucks
>Pyro, the class that needs the most retooling both to make it less brain dead to play for new players and unviable to play competitively has no changes

SA
SU
GA

>>381789943
>Scout, the most balanced class
stopped reading right there

>>381789943
>the most balanced class

L O L
O
L

>>381789692
It's hard to accept but that's how things are.
Dude, I still play it. But it's more an exercize in automatic reflexes than anything else.The golden times are gone. The silver times are gone too. What's left is shit.

Kys pyro degenerates

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>>381789692
>"TF2 died when i got bored of it"

>>381790008
>>381790026
he kind of is though, anyone who can aim or main Soldier enough to point blank everything to death can stop him before he pulls his tricks

>my nose when going Gunslinger Engineer against a Scout main

Remove the pyro

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>>381790336
>>381790196
t. French fries

>>381790364
t. Pyro main subhuman, I bet you're also a furfag or ponyfag.

>>381789943
Scout is not balanced. It is too indipendent to be considered balanced in a team based game. Same goes with Soldier. Both classes can rape the opponents with almost no help from their own team. This is far from being balanced.

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>>381789943
>releasing balance changes about pyro
>in a pre-patch balance notes page before the pyro update comes out
wooooooooooow maybe they didn't release them because the update is about the pyro what do you think

>>This is not the complete list of changes. Some items (and classes) are still being worked on, and are not ready for review.

>>381790149
>But it's more an exercize in automatic reflexes than anything else
Not sure what you're referring to here
>The golden times are gone.
Yes and I don't see how that has anything to do with saying the game is dead. Obviously it's much closer to it's death than it's birth, but it is not dead
>What's left is shit.
The game is still right here and I have fun with it daily. I would agree if you said "things have never been this bad" maybe

>>381790531
>The game is still right here and I have fun with it daily
I already told you, you have fun? Good for you. That doesn't mean it's not dead.

>>381790531
>I am a master of mental gymnastics to justify misplaced priorities. Also I am 14 years old
Shoo shoo!

So what I can take from this is Valve apparently listen to the like 20 "pro" TF2 players and fun shit cause it was too fun.

>>381790486
Only unbalanced class is pyro, it takes no skill. Fuck you if you play pyro you faggot cancer.

>changed ambassador

literally no reason to play now. killing scrubs with an ambassador from across the map and calling them bad was all we had left.

>>381790486
scout is shutdown by sentries

>>381790486
Scout isn't meant to be in the cluster with the slower fighting classes. Two stray explosives or grenades directly hitting something like a soldier or heavy next to him will end his existence. He should be sprinting back and forth rushing down enemies preoccupied with a Soldier or Demo.

>>381790486
Scout has 2x capture time solely to encourage team based play. You're retarded.

>>381790732
>we
speak for yourself, frenchie.

Heavy is the most useless class unless he has a babysitter, 400+HP AND a constant speedboost. A fucking crit a cola scout with the babyface can shred him in seconds, since the minigun has so much spread up close, muh 500 close range DPS (yet it takes 5 seconds to murder a scout in a hallway running towards you, directly in the center of the crosshair). This shit is why you have to play flare pyro or demoman to get things done. Pyro is either useless or murders you in seconds, wonky as fuck flamethrowers, can't wait to see the pyro changelog in a few weeks

Kek, look at all those scout mains getting mad.

>The 1-second damage and accuracy penalty now applies to the first second of spun-up time, whether or not the Heavy is firing.
>Previously, the 1-second damage penalty would only be removed after 1 second of firing.
>Accuracy and damage penalties now reset when the Heavy spins down, rather than when the Heavy stops firing.
>This means if you stay spun-up beyond one second, and fire in bursts, damage and accuracy will remain at 100%.

>weather or not the heavy is firing
>This means if you stay spun-up beyond one second, and fire in bursts, damage and accuracy will remain at 100%.
>and fire in bursts
Games dead.

>>381790630
And your definition of dead means absolutely nothing in this case because clearly you give it some personal meaning like the fact you don't have fun anymore, for whatever reason

>>381790694
I don't even know what the fuck you just said, are you referring to the patch notes? Maybe use your brain and learn to read next time, or do you seriously think they would put out the pyro changes just like that before the update hits?
>i'll just call him a 14 year old

>>381790964
Kill yourself pyro queer

>spyfags are mad that their pocket sniper is slightly less effective
lmao

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>>381780436
Of someone can't play spy without the dr, he shoudn't play spy from the beggining

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>>381779398
The whole thing sounds like a april fools joke.

>Players often complain that the B.A.S.E. Jumper is frustrating to fight against because the target is simply too hard to hit. This is mostly due to the combination of being able to deploy/retract at will, and the amount of steering control they have - which makes them too unpredictable.

>>381791074
Scunts too.

>>381790906
Well if that crit a cola scout is fighting the heavy he will take more damage from his spread and from the scouts own item.

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>>381779398
>Sandman nerf
Sucks but least I get 5 seconds off my ball cooldown.
>Fucking CLEAVER nerf
Why

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>>381790732
I too will miss it, such a good feeling hitting scunts.

DUDE WTF I WAS JUMPING HOW

>>381782273
Agree mate, the amby just rewarded aim or penalized standing oblivious in a spot
Change not needed at all.

>>381791337
I laugh at thinking how much effort, time and maybe even money you put into that soon to be useless set.

Every pyro change keeps ruining the game further.

post your cosmetics in 2011 compared to now

>>381791167
But it's actually true. A half-decent player with the BASE Jumper is effectively unhittable (with projectile weapons at least).

>>381791337
>strange cleaver
>strange festive sandman
AHAHAHAH
I WARNED YOU BRO
I WAAAAAARNED YOU

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>>381791452
Glad you got a laugh out of it champ :v)

Only the cleaver and ambassador changes are bad.

The rest are great.

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What's up with the autist spamming pyro posts

>>381791618
>he also uses the scorch shot to harass sniper
No better feeling.

>>381791459

I have always used vanilla load outs. The only time I changed my cosmetics was to put the spacechem badge onto the soldier because it looked fitting. I also changed its description to say "MLP is for autistic children" and I bestowed this only treasure of mine to a good friend.

>>381791668
>implying anyone likes pyro

>>381787724
that's the enforcer

>>381791618
>Shit taste as scout
>good taste as pyro
I'm baffled.

>>381791635
>Amby changes are bad
Spy shouldn't be the Sniper. That said the change isnt very good. All they had to do was make it so it cant headshot outside of like 20 meters.

Dead fucking game. The only good change in that whole thing is the rescue ranger.

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>>381791796
Beats me, too.

>>381791923
3 mistakes valve made: f2p, pandering to ponyfags, and the pyro. I still remember that one halloween.

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>>381791976
>purple
why do people think this stuff looks good?

The best part is realizing that even though 90% of Scout's weapons have been gutted for being 'too strong', Scout with stock can still cause problems. It won't be long until people start bitching about Scout's base speed and scattergun damage.

>>381791923
>Not liking that massive heavy buff
Makes me wonder how they're going to buff Pyro.

>>381792130
People have felt that Scout's too effective at medium-long range for awhile.

>>381792093
>pandering to ponyfags
>one cosmetic item only allowed to wear during halloween and can be ignored and disabled
end your life
>>381791976
alright i'll admit, your demo looks good

>>381792238
>Wanting degenerates to infest the game
Kill yourself

I've been out of the loop for quite a while, but I saw people flying on a broomstick or going around in a bumper car.
The fuck is that shit

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>>381792124
>Not liking what is objectively the best color

>>381792238
Thanks m8

>>381791459
Only cosmetics I've ever used were my Primeval Warrior badge, and the hats they released with the sniper/spy update;

>Soldier's Stash
>Demoman's Fro
>Trophy Belt
>Fancy Fedora

>>381791474
Seems like the reasonable fix would be to make it so that it can only be deployed once while in midair.

>>381790906
Use a Tomislav. Problem ended.

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Are all class hats for poorfags? Everytime people post their loadouts on /v/ I never see all class, it's like I'm the only one who likes them
I also think I'm the only one that once in a while uses the Craft Headgear option ingame, just to feel the thrill of the gamble.

>>381792238
Pyrocuck is triggered, lmao.

>>381791618
Holy shit, I haven't played TF2 in years. Is this a real screenshot?? Or is it edited?

>>381792773
All class hats are actually the most valuable ones, especially the unusual ones.

>>381791618
Kill yourself pyrofag degenerate

>>381792959
It's real. It's a new taunt they introduced in a halloween event.

>Bills are 5 dollars
>Buds are 5 dollars
>Gentlemann's Service Medal are 5 dollars

What happened?

>>381792959
All of it is real
>the fucking bumper cars update

>>381793195
>>381793189
Pyrofags ruin everything

>>381793194
This economy sucks balls. Try to check the price in metals of a single key and prepare to cry.

>>381793194
other all-class items came out. those items were expensive before not because they were rare but because they looked good and were the only options available.

>>381793189
>>381793195
That's pure insanity. I know Valve doesn't make games anymore, but it would be so satisfying to see a TF3 come out and wipe away all the cosmetic bloat.

>>381793520
They wouldn't remove pyro so why bother

>>381791618
>Rareware mark of quality
kek

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>>381793270
>being this triggered by a fireman class

>>381793761
>wanting the most broken and hated class to remain

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>>381793520
I don't think cosmetics are such a bad thing themselves, especially for a f2p game
But Valve simply gave 0 fucks about the game's artstyle and put in all sort of disgusting shit, and in my opinion the worst abominations are unusual. We now have even unusual taunts and weapons for fuck sake

>>381793657
What's all the hate ITT for pyros? There are worse classes to deal with ingame
Or is it due to players like the Wolf guy?

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>>381792959
>>381793093
Deet deet

>>381791337
Cleaver was legit broken, although for some reason nobody used it
>bleed + scattergun kills almost any class in seconds
> easy to aim
>fastest cooldown ever

Come on anon, it was imba as fuck

>>381793853
>most """""""broken"""""
>yet argueably the 2nd easiest class to get rid of if you have more than 10 braincells

this meme has gone on long enough

>>381793853
Spy?

>>381792959
Its real.
Im sorry anon

>>381794072
Spy takes skill

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>>381779398
>Long-range ball impacts no longer remove the victim's ability to fire their weapon
More like Sadman, the sad man being me. At least the PBPP is getting a pretty decent boost.

Nothing will ever kill TF2 because the people who play TF2 don't play it for the game.

>>381794235
He certainly does now the DR is gone

I still don't understand the appeal of festives. They all look like shit except for the strange amby

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>>381780626
>>381780750
>>381781670
>>381781728
>>381782273
>>381783087

>when you don`t understand what a crutch is and still make a post about it

yeah they should nerf that crutch pickaxe the soldier has haha and the crutches of running urgently haha everything is a crutch only if i dont like it

>>381794461
One of the festive demo weapons had all white christmas lights on it, and it actually looked pretty swell.

>>381794550
Cuck

>>381794336
they sure as hell dont play it for the money, if tahts what your implying

>>381794336
Tf3 would kill it but thatll never happen.

>>381794550
>yeah they should nerf that crutch pickaxe the soldier has
Well, I mean, they did. When the 2 pickaxes were just 1 pickaxe, it was pretty fucking broken.

>>381794235
Not with those broken melee hitboxes he doesn't

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>>381793973
>>bleed + scattergun kills almost any class in seconds
True, but you would rarely be in range to engage a target with the scattergun after a successful cleaver. ANd if you engage someone in effective scatter range with the cleaver, they will most certainly kill you before you have to to pull it out, throw it, then switch back to the scattergun.
>> easy to aim
True, but it is also extremely easy to dodge, and the cleaver by itself doesn't do much damage.

>>381787082
>Want to play medieval mode with a twist
>Apparently there's a Helm's deep map that looks fucking sick and it's huge
>Can't find a server to run it
>Try to play with bots
>The map is so big nav generation would take at least an hour
Fuck

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>>381793882
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1W8BZPf-N8

There is no solution to fix it anymore.
Except maybe releasing more "art style fitting" stuff and hope they outdate the dumb stuff.

>>381781619
>FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE FOCUS FIRE ME SO I DIE INSTANTLY the class
"as a veteran" i rather player soldier everytime

>>381783608
>It's been widely accepted as an intrinsically shitty design since day 1
>I don't like it therefor no one does

>>381793882
I think they can be okay if they're done right. They were clearly not done right in TF2. As of right now they remind me of bad mods on counterstrike servers except they're everywhere. It really cheapens the hell out of this game I actually used to like.

>>381784708
>you don't know what that soldier is capable of just by looking at him
You can see if he has gunboats or not and you can see what launcher he has
what else matters?

>>381789468
0/10 apply your self next time

>>381796837
this

>>381796837
Yes, that's the role of a tank. You get shot at so that your teammates get shot at less.

Almost 10 years...and now look what happened.

>>381780436
itll be fine, you can still recharge from shooting people with one gun,
and getting a full cloak with that one knife(i think not sure if they changed that)

>>381797891
yeah they finally fixed added a Mario hat.
weird right?

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>>381779398
>balancing a weapon around RNG
why don't they just limit the distance the ambassador can headshot?

>>381789468
[citation needed]

>>381794958
doesn't change the fact you idiots don't know what a crutch is

>>381796458
Hey, that video summed it up pretty good.

>>381798261
I think they should just raise the cool down on headshotting so its more inline with the sniper rifle

>>381794550
>imfuckinplying the DR isn't a crutch

What scant few high evel spy plays you see in 6's are almost always c&d or IW because they can either escape well enough by traditional cloaking, or because they need to hide with the cloak.

Dr is a blatent crutch in the sense of the word, retard.

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>haven't played in years
>decide to try it again
>limited access to new playstyles because i only have a few weapons
>god awful new matchmaking system
>even crazier cosmetic shit
>uninstall within the hour

Well, that's about enough of that.

>>381799509
your limited access to new weapons when you play less than a hour is your own fault
caring about cosmetics is small time
But the matchmaking is wonky.

>>381787692
At this point it just seems like Valve ONLY wants you to use Ubersaw. Hell, I'd say it's been like that for years.

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>>381799509

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>>381799509
ar u fraustraed?

>>381796458
There is a solution, but it would require a big effort to fix clipping, redesign various cosmetics, making all unusual effects team-colored, removing most of the paints and fixing the rest, and an immediate cease in the selling of the bad offenders (read: like 20% of the damn hats). They would have to compensate the removed paints. I don't think they would go for removing actual cosmetics though.

The Banana hat, of course, would be replaced with a baseball cap with a banana graphic on it.

>>381799509
I used to be for earning weapons. But the drop system is so fucked now that your odds of getting the exact gun you need are too low. And nobody really cares about trading you weapons, they're all looking for super rare crazy cosmetics.

>>381800297
>what is scrap banking

>>381796458
>"Scout is a canon pedophile"
Is scout, dare I say it, /v/'s guy?

>>381800297
>not trading off the shitty weapons and duplicates you get from drops to bots for good shit

>>381800378
>"Scout is a canon pedophile"
What the fuck?

>>381799509
Your fault for thinking TF2 has gone anywhere but downhill.

>>381793194
>Bills and Buds are $5 now
>tfw I remember scamming newbies out of Buds for two weapons, then turning around and selling them for $25
16-year old me would cry seeing the current economy.

>>381800639
He's 23 and he hangs out at high schools pretending to be on the track team to pick up chicks

>>381800639
The guy says it in the video, jokingly. It's because of the Track Terrorizer item description, which implies he was much older than anyone on the campus, but I don't see it implied anywhere that the girls hit on were underage

>>381801079
>liking high school girls makes you a pedophile

Okay Mr.Alt Right Conservative normie
Go back to >>>/pol/

Dang, I used to be really good with the Sandman too. No point in using it now when you can just shoot people instead of slowing them down. It feels like they didn't even consider the defensive application of the stun effect, though.

>>381779398
Nah, I lost too much hope for this game.

>>381801547
I wasn't even the same guy you dumb shit, I was just informing you what that other anon was talking about

>>381800247
what if they gave the baseball cap with a banana
and turn the banana hat into a full moon halloween style cosmetic.

>>381801547
Lefties support pedos you retard

>>381801547
t. 400 lb pedophile

>>381802420
brilliant, go for it. or the banana consumes all three cosmetic slots.

>>381802445
That's consistent with what he said. He basically called the other anon a right-wing moralfag.

>>381789101
this
mechanically it's still the same game (maybe except for eyelanders), but these two updates (f2p and lobby) really changed the way a round is played (ruined it), both decomposing community of players who actually knew what tf2 is about and how to play it

>Still no buffs for The Classic.
Why does Valve hate it so much?

>>381799679
I have played for a thousand hours.
and still cant frind some of the weapons, or even getting the resources to craft the weapons with out destroying other rare ones.

I guess selling weapons make a decent profit so they dont make it more generous with the weapon drops.

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>YER is finally getting changed
>It's fucking nothing
JUST MAKE IT SO YOU CAN CLOAK AND UNCLOAK FASTER

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Best ways to piss off Sniper mains? I hate them more than anything in this game
I can only think of spamming Scorch shot as pyro, and using Dangershield+pissrifle as Sniper and mostly looking to countersnipe

>>381803374
>is the TFC sniper rifle
>they didn't make TFC free, even though they're not making money off it anyway, and it's dumb to have game 2 be free but not game 1
I dunno, you tell me

>>381803828
>cloak and dagger
useless useless useless useless useless get off your ass and use a normal watch