http://www.teamfortress.com/post.ph p?id=30147 I know /v/ i

>>381673883
I don't play spy all that much but the ambassador changes don't really make a lot of sense. The guillotine changes are also pretty bad. All the heavy changes are good and I like the sniper changes for comp. where the fuck is the bision buff though like come on.

>>381674225
Its not a complete list of changes.

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>2017
>still playing TF2

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>>381673883
I absolutely love the way they worded all the changes, explaining their though process and all. I agree with >>381674225 in that the amby's nerf should've been done better (adding spread to a weapon that is supposed to reward accuracy is retarded), but overall is a good step foward for the Tf2 team.

>>381674714
>still playing Chokepointwatch

>>381673883
ambassador nerf wasn't needed
sandman combo only killed shitters
dead ringer was hilariously easy to deal with so the change will still allow dead ringer to be easy to deal with
YER change is retarded
>Players often complain that the B.A.S.E. Jumper is frustrating to fight against because the target is simply too hard to hit.
stop listening to shitters
>Mantreads
>The second least-used item in the game
biggest lie
>>381674714
>>>/reddit/ with your dead game

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>>381673883
RIP Dead Ringer.

>>381673883
Why do Valve hate spies so much?

>>381673883
>killed the ambassador
fuck you valve I'm glad I quit long ago

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>>381673883
>all these shitters complaining about their spy getting nerfed
AHAHAHAHHAHA

>>381673883
why are they bothering at this point?

I will never forgive them for what they did to the Axtinguisher.

>>381675840
>shitting on pyro

can you fuck off

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>Rescue Ranger uses metal when repairing
NO!

>>381675972
>>381675840
Didn't mean to reply, but seriously why nerf pyro and make it so any lucker sniper can just crit him to death now

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>Pyro update
>Lets make spy even more useless!

>>381675569
>>381675734
If you can't comprehend that the closest range class shouldn't have the best long range weapon in the fucking game other than sniper's you are just retarded.

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>>381675641
Because newbs cry too hard when they get fucked by DR spies they can't beat.
>>381675824
S-stop laughing. I *voice cracking* I loved my Dead Ringer.
Though I prefer the CnD more, especially combined with the L'tranger

>>381676084
if you can't comprehend you should get good you are just retarded

>>381676070
Because Pyro is getting a big rework this update.

>balance changes center around making good items not as good instead of making bad items not as bad
None of these items needed nerfing but Valve still won't buff the Bison.

>>381676070
>>381676064
Because players kept bitching and moaning to valve.

That's why DR is dead and Ambys a piece of shit.

>>381676142
Oh, nice.

Any idea when we find out what? Thursday?

>>381673883

This will be the last nail in the coffin.

>>381673883
>nerf literally the only things the scout had
I'm done with this game, there was no need for the sandman or flying guillitone nerf.

>hitting a crit from long distance or a MAX ball felt random
>in a game where soldiers can randomly shoot insta kill rockets at any range
simply ebin

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>>381676124
Nice argument my dude

>>381674714
After playing Overwatch I realized how fucking shit it is and decided to reinstall TF2, it's just so much better.

>>381676176
I fucking love the bison, too. Ree.

>>381676064
it uses literally 15 ammo when repairing
unless you are 32 miles away from your dispenser, its not a problem.
>>381676096
dont worry anon, if anything its opened a new door for you an everyone else.

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>Scout gets half of his items nerfed
>theyre fine with it
>Dead Ringer gets a minor nerf
>Spy mains go ballistic

>>381676096
Maybe just stop relying on crutches and get good at the game instead.

>>381676071
at last we truly see, the backbone of the pyro update

>>381674714
>playing overwatch

>>381676239
don't need an argument if you actually complain about things only shitters complain about

Who else here got sick of Overwatch and reinstalled TF2 and are having the most fun they've had in ages?

>>381676084
>sitting in 2fort trying to snipe people with your revolver rather than sapping the sentry nest and backstabbing people in general
>contribute literally nothing seeing as your headshots can't kill anybody
Never ever has the spy's ambassador being more powerful at sniping than the sniper's rifles or huntsman, and it was a high skill weapon in the first place already, so shut the fuck up retard

>>381673883
I mainly play Overwatch now, but
>No Pyro changes

Not interested.

>Friendly reminder that both the DR and the Amby nerfs were on point and if you can't see why you are just an autistic Mr Paladin fanboy who doesn't give a shit about other than "His class being the strongest!!1! >:c", not even overall game balance.

>>381676528
i guess you didnt read, this isnt the full list you barbarian.

>>381676532
who are you quoting?

>>381676528
>Overwatch player has no reading comprehension
Heh.

>>381673883
>http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=30147
Mostly pissed off at the Ambassador changes, it did not fucking deserve this.

>removing sandman stun
>colas nerfed
>fucked up sniper secondaries
>thinking the vitasaw is viable now

Its like some new dev went into one pug comp game and thought FUCK EVERYTHING GOD DAMNIT AND LET ME PUT MY OWN THOUGHTS INTO PATCH NOTES BECAUSE IM COOL LIKE THAT

>>381676320
thats because few people used sandman/axe combo
and less people used the sodas
But every spy and their scouts mom used the dead ringer

>>381676432
I did so after last Christmas. Overwatch's gameplay get's stale after half a year. You just one day stop and realize the gameplay you're playing at that moment is all you're going to be doing in that game.

Right now I'm on a break from TF2 and been playing Modded Skyrim and HOTS. 2.0 really gave it a nice kick.

>>381676630
>removing sandman stun
Try actually reading next time before crying.

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>>381676532
>>Friendly reminder that both the DR and the Amby nerfs were on point
good post anon, thank you for telling us all you can't deal with the second worst class in the game right now

>make a retard filter class whose main counter is common sense
>need to constantly nerf him and give other classes unlocks that specifically counter him because your playerbase is full of retards

>>381676432
Overwatch is probably fine at high level when you're playing with a team full of people that aren't shit with good communication. At anything that isn't that, though, it's far, far too teamplay reliant to have fun with.

In tf2 you can pubstomp if you're good, and even if you lose you're going to be a massive factor in how your team does. You can genuinely swing the way a game goes even though it's just one of you. And dying to a well placed projectile in tf2 is miles better than dying to "the button press by the class that counters my class"

I just wish they still keep the Sandman/Cleaver combo

>>381676846
I dont use the sandman enough to care

>>381676615
>>381676628
>Pyro changes might come later

This doesn't change that there are no Pyro changes in this changelog, my dudes. Stop being defensive.

>>381676630
>use soda popper/pistol/candy cane
>popper can't minicrit anymore and now you can jump like a spaz
>ok let's give it a try
>use soda popper/pocket pistol/atomizer combo
>pocket pistol no longer gives you more HP and now it makes you weaker to a lot more shit plus it has the no fall damage taken away
>switch to good ol scattergun with axe and sandman
>now this happens
end my life already

>>381677004
>I don't know what i'm talking about
>I didn't actually read what the balanced changes actually say
>But i'm still going to cry about it anyway

Class tier lists:

God:
Demo/Soldier/Medic

High:
Scout, Sniper

God-In-Pubs-Shit-Everywhere-Else:
Heavy, Engie

Shit:
Spy

Dear god:
Pyro

>>381677071
Just use stock scatter
pretty boy, since now it can give you alright health at a faster rate

>>381677027
What do you mean? Didn't you see that massive buff to the Panic Attack, an already super overpowered secondary that every heavy, engineer, soldier, AND pyro use all the time. Clearly this is the balance change the game needs

>>381677205
So they achieved 6v6 highlander tiers in a casual 12v12 evironment.
Ebin. Simply ebin.

I don't give a shit about these balance changes.

I give a shit about not having any of these god damn items they added to the game.

All I want is my tactical class-based team shooter that I bought years ago.

>>381677153
>tells me I cant read
>didnt read my post
>got crying from it
whew

>>381677071
>shortstop
>hatchet
>wrap assassin
You can stack bleeds as long as they are from different sources. hatchet+wrap kills low hp classes and puts a big dent in their health, and the shortstop is great at a medium range to pick them off. stock scatter works fine too

>>381674714
>overwatch
wrong door idiot reddit is down the hall

>>381677494
Try playing outside of pubs servers, maybe

>>381677494
How is it not a class based team shooter anymore

I mean the updates certainly aren't free of flaws and there's a ton of complaints you could make but the underlying fabric of the game is untouched.

>>381677496
I did read your post, so I am asking why are you crying about the sandman change when you don't care about the weapon while also misreading the balance change about it?

>>381677603
The underlying fabric of the game has been touched to hell and back by adding all kinds of items to each of the characters that radically change their roles, strengths, weaknesses, and effectiveness in the game. It isn't the same, and no matter how much balancing is done it will never be the same as long as those extra items are still a part of it.

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>>381673883
I think they're fine. I only use stock anyways since there is never a downside.

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Every change listed is justified aside from the Ambassador. The Ambassador change is retarded because you can still headshot people from across the map, its just random now. It doesn't actually accomplish their goal. Every other change is good, and you literally cant argue that fact

>>381677809
Please give me an example of how sniper rifle man's role in the game has been fundementally changed

Some of it sounds ok but a lot seems redundant and are just making some half decent weapons into terrible ones. The Sandman one stands out, it seems there would be no point in using it if that got added.

>>381677809
want to give an indepth example on how everybody is this game has been so fundamentally changed that its not the same game anymore?

>>381673883
They haven\t changed my crutches so I'm still good.

>>381677648
>gets caught
>starts panicing
>parrots himself
just stop

From the patch notes themself:
>Long-range ball impacts no longer remove the victim's ability to fire their weapon (but the victim is still slowed)
>NO LONGER REMOVES THE VICTIM'S ABILITY TO FIRE THEIR WEAPON
Meaning, they are slowed/snared but can still fire their weapon. This is not stun. The guillotine's crit on stun effect was removed because not to nerf the scout, but to my knowledge, no other weapon stuns.

>>381677603
They changed hit detection and stock weapon balances. The game also runs like hot garbage when it ran very well even 4-5 years ago. They're pushing this e-sports/competitive mindset for balancing in a fucking party game leading them to remove most classes identities and roles in exchange for a "fair and less random" system. Face it, this game has been fucked for years

>>381677878
its not really random perse, its just not perfect anymore.
If you miss the 1st shot, the rest are gonna have more fall off

>Valve: The sniper shouldn't have a secondary that commits him to countersniping
>I know, let's just make it YET ANOTHER BURN IMMUNITY ITEM

Holy fuck, is there a class any game as kicked and abused as the pyro?

>>381677878
>Complains about headshots when it enables the spy to headshot.
>Still can't notice a spy trying to shoot him from across the room.

You only have yourself to blame.

>>381678221
The first shot isn't perfectly accurate anymore, and crits never had fall off to begin with, if I am understanding this sentence right.

>>381678187
>how is the game fundementally different
>they changed the blanace of stock weapons slightly

uh

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They keep removing fun things in the name of COMPETITIVE ESPORTS BALANCE

>>381678304
Literally who are you quoting?

>>381678167
>long range
It only affects max range

>>381676504
I think you might have to work on your reading comprehension.

>>381678269
spy and in a sense medic
Medic hasnt had a new weapon in a while, not even a reskin that isnt stock.
>>381678379
>crits never had fall off to begin with, if I am understanding this sentence right.
nah what i mean is that the Ambassador used to have perfect aim whereever, now after the first shot its gonna be less accurate at long range but still good at close.

>>381675569
BASE jumper is banned in comp because people could just jump to the skybox and then fly down erratically spamming rockets for free.
Mantreads are indeed the second least used item in the game. They're absolute garbage for anything other than Market Gardening. This buff is much needed and will make them a very fun weapon to use as well.

>>381678391
And the hit detection, and they've modified maps for better or worse. They've played it very safe though, by not changing any class' base HP or movement speeds other than Pyro's. But any time you try to make a party game fully e-sports viable it's going to go to shit.

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>>381678496
>It only affects max range
so we'll remove his stun from sandman's maximum range which would provide no realistic way for the victim to attack the scout

>>381678452
t mad scout/spy

>>381678553
>now after the first shot its gonna be less accurate at long range but still good at close.
Thats what I thought you might be saying, and also where you're wrong. It's not going to have that first perfect accuracy shot anymore.

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Who's ready for literally every scout to use this when the update rolls out?

>>381678452
And funny thing is that competitive has banned those things anyway

>>381673883
>still pretending TF2 is relevant

Quaint. Can some Overwatchfag show this guy the exit?

>>381678553
Imagine if every class in the game had an option for a secondary weapon with the Pomson's ubercharge drain effect. That's what it's like with modern TF2 and every class having an antipyro weapon.

valve is killing what little fun was left in pub tf2 for dumb comp players who just ban everything anyway, nice.

>>381678496
yeah, no. max range balls only get added damage (7.5 damage)
>Max range balls now do 50% increased damage (from a base of 15)
They even started off saying they wanted to remove the randomness and lack of skill from the stuns with:
>Being hit by a long-range ball (more often than not) ends up feeling random, rather than skilled.
So assuming they are only using 3 ways to measure a ball (short, long, max), why the fuck would they keep the stun effect on a max range ball when that is the most random, non skilled shot?

Sandman stun is gone, dude.

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>>381673883
>Dead Ringer is still "Get out of jail free LMAO"
>Nerfing Bonk when the thing had nothing wrong with it
At least they changed the Rescue Ranger and Darwin's Danger Shield. Those two had been begging for a nerf for a really long fucking time.

>>381674714
>playing the same 2 maps but painted differently Watch: We balance around one hero

>minor hitbox and map changes
>fully changed the fabric of the game
>full esports

do you realise how fucking stupid you sound

I agree it's going in a bad direction but we're not even approaching any change in core gameplay even close to material

>>381678730
>scout gets his own health sap again
its gonna get wild

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>>381678860
>theres nothing wrong with getting on the flank for absolutely free

>>381678819
You'll get steamrolled by players who use stock anyway.

>>381678953
mad milk.

People seriously forget that it wont be 7 hp per shot, when it clearly says "up to 7 hp", remember the Black Box, does every shot heal 20hp?

Then again stock, pocket pistol and candy cane might make for some interesting pub stomping

>>381678730
Why would you use that when Mad Milk, the objectively better team-playing and healing Scout secondary, still exists?

>Which class should we update?! Heavy or Pyro??
July 7, 2016
>Meet your winner: Pyro!
August 15, 2016
>Balance Changes, including balance for 3 Heavy melee weapons and all miniguns! Also no pyro changes at all
June 20, 2017

>>381678950
meant to reply to >>381678646
lol

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>>381679185
Honestly, threads for these change logs are fun solely because you can see just how many people can't read.

>>381679185
They never said an update will be full of buffs and balance changes.. did they?
>all the afterburn immunity stuff added

>>381676881
Youre just playing the class wrong scrub.

>>381679185
the june 20th changelog was some of more upcoming balance changes, but valve wanted community input before they pull the trigger
I feel that people like you simply want to create as much drama and petty arguing, so much to the point that you're willing to purposely misunderstand info just to get some

>>381679143
Because you can actually use it as a weapon and finish off people when you have no ammo. There will be pretty much no reason to take the default pistol over it with the changes.

>>381679391
I don't play spy

>>381679142
well, of course its gonna be up to 7 hp but its starting from +5 hp per hit.
In reality PBPP will probably just be more useful as a 1v1 hit and dash sorta weapon as opposed to the mad milks multi heal

>>381677494
Play on a classic server?

>>381679317
Yeah, valve is just a small indie company, it's acceptable that they don't have any progress to show after a year. I mean, they SAID THE LIST IS INCOMPLETE! It's only been a year, they probably don't even have any changes worth mentioning yet, who cares? We need to support Valve, they'll have something for us in 2018!

>>381679540
I mean, the TF2 team is a handful of people trying to work on a game bloated with 10 years of work from varying other programmers, so yeah, you're actually sort of right with your sarcastic autism.

>>381679410
You still have 20% damage vulnerability on wearer. And on a scout that pretty much is a one shot.

>>381679482
>http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=30147
Read it again, it is UP TO 7 HP (UP FROM THE CURRENT 5)

Its not a 5 hp per shot minimum. I have had the black box heal me for as little as 4 damage of its total 20 before.

So you need to be pretty close to someone to get the full healing of the pocket pistol, in which case the scattergun would do more damage

>>381679820
wait the current was +5?
shit i stopped playing scout
but yeah i already know the black box can heal for dirt worthless 4 hp i just thought the pocket pistol followed a different mechanic.

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>The Dead Ringer encourages rushing into danger without thought
>New players latch to the Dead Ringer because it makes playing one of the more complex classes easier, albeit less effective
>Valve want's to discourage this DR spamming playstyle, because not only does it teach bad habits to new players, it's simply unsatisfying and unfun to fight against
>They won't remove it because feigning death is a unique and interesting mechanic, and has some place in competitive highlander
The only people who don't understand this are DR Spy mains.

>>381673883
>changing the things that nobody used
good
>changing the things that have already been changed a million times before
BAD

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>Stock scout is OP

>nerfs everything but stock scout

>fucking breaks pretty boy's picket pistol

>Spy gets nerfed out of nowhere

>>381679789
The 20% damage vulnerability has been removed. Can't you read the line that says NEW DESIGN and not CHANGES?

Every balance proposed seems good to me except the Sodas, the Ambassador, the Razorback and the Vita Saw, which changes seems the more retarded and sound even worse than the one we have now.

>>381680198
what do you mean by worse? like they'll be even stronger like this?

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>valve nerfs the biggest crutch in the game
>Vita-Saw made even less useful
>Panic attack made decent
Looks like a great update, lads

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overwatch is moba babby shit

>>381680271
Yeah

>>381677891
Huntsman.

>>381678019
Let's take a look at the Pyro.

With the three weapons available to the Pyro at the start of the game, it was most effective as an ambush class. You would use the Pyro by staying out of enemy sight until you could get really close and surprise an enemy or a small group of enemies. Your primary weapon was effective at dealing moderate immediate damage to a number of close enemies at the same time and dealing moderate damage to those enemies over time.

The most effective way to play the Pyro early into the game's life was to stay out of sight of your enemies, take lesser-traveled paths to approach an enemy or a small group of enemies from the side or from behind, quickly spray the enemies with fire, and before they react, begin retreating while peppering them with the shotgun. The Pyro's health and movement speed stats support this. It has a good healthpool, but not enough to take a lot of abuse. It has a good movement speed, but not good enough to disengage from a fight when things go poorly. The Pyro's classification as an offensive class supports this.

Today, the Pyro is most effective when played as a support class. It's most useful as a bodyguard for engineers. It can't play the same ambush strategies because the damage of the flamethrower and its afterburn have been reduced for a very long time. It's gained new weapons that encourage this engineer bodyguard behavior.

In addition to its old strengths against spies, the Pyro now also has the Homewrecker to replace that axe of little use, which allows the Pyro to remove sappers from buildings, making the Pyro a very effective counter to spies attempting to break engineer encampments. The added compression blast also allows the Pyro to counter other common strategies for breaking engineer encampments. It can deflect rockets coming from a long distance, it can move sticky bombs, it can render pipe bombs harmless to anyone but the Pyro.

Continued

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>>381680351
>he thinks the current vita-saw is bad

>>381680392
the sodas sound at least not as great now. razorback really is just done for highlander, because sniper is so important and overheal plus the razorback protected him from his two biggest counters. the vita saw sounds like an ubersaw but for a situation where you'll likely die.

>>381680550
The compression blast even allows the Pyro to protect the encampment from Ubers by blowing away the incoming assailant. It may not be effective at completely eliminating the threat for the duration of the Uber, but it will reduce the time the Uber has to deal damage to the encampment while being immune to damage.

No one uses the default flamethrower anymore, because other weapons are just more useful. The degreaser is a common one because it allows you to switch weapons faster, making the engineer bodyguard strategy even more useful.

This is not to say that you can't continue to try to ambush the enemy team similar to before, but that strategy is no longer as effective as it used to be and the engineer bodyguard strategy is more productive to your team.

>>381680078
>Stock scout is OP
Shut up retard

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>>381680035
>competitive highlander

>>381680550
That wasn't changed by those weapons. You could still play stock and try your flanking playstyle. People dont play Pyro like that anymore because people realized Pyro was not only never good at that, but that other classes were so much better at filling that role.

>>381681020
yeah, i know, but the razorback change directly shows that valve still cares about it for whatever reason.

>>381681038
>You could still play stock and try your flanking playstyle.
See >>381680979

>>381680813
the fact tf2 is balanced around anything related to highlander means the game is dead.

more fempyro please

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>>381681153
I legitimately don't know why they do. 6s is the main focus for competitive tf2, also known by the fact it's really the only thing played competitively and that it's all there is for matchmaking. Are they doing it because people still hang on to HL? I really don't see how it's competitive

>>381681201
you didnt explain why that strategy is no longer as effective as it used to be. it's not as effective because, again, it was never effective. nothing at all changed about that play style.

>>381681408
>Are they doing it because people still hang on to HL?
Pretty much, yeah. There's a lot of offclass mains who insist on playing their class 24/7. Razorback was never relevant in 6s anyways, so I guess its fine to throw them a bone for the time being until they get their own competitive shit together.

>>381681467
Yes, I did, read >>381680550
>It can't play the same ambush strategies because the damage of the flamethrower and its afterburn have been reduced for a very long time.

The Ambassador nerf isn't even that bad guys, it just means you can't snipe with it anymore. You're still going to easily land shots in medium and short range.

>>381680550
>It's gained new weapons that encourage this engineer bodyguard behavior.
there is literally only 1(one) weapon that lets pyro help an engie (not counting reskins) and its he homewrecker. Of course it removed a sapper in 1 hit but a pyro doesnt have time to alwasy be hugging an engineer 24/7. yes, airblasting can help the engie stop buildings from getting destroyed but with the delay of airblasts, more pills can pop up and put pyro out of position or kill him.
Plus pyro cannot stop long range classes like sniper from doing bullet damage

>>381677496
I also use hatchet and wrap assassin with stock/shortstop. Hearing the ding ding ding of my opponent's life whittling away is so satisfying
no wonder I'm a pyro main

>>381681408
Highlander is the one competitive format where teams are large enough that you will see(and indeed, they are forced to) all classes in play.

6s trends towards its usual Scouts/Soldiers/Demo/Medic arrangement simply because teams are so small, utilitarian and mobile that other classes really don't make sense out of very specific context.

So Highlander would be the only competitive context to which you could balance classes.

>>381676303

>
>mcree flashes and takes years to slowly headshot you
>roadhog (I stopped playing before this supposed latest nerf) hooks and ohks almost anyone from across the map and there's no mid-hook escape means
>entire playstyle of mei (shit character that she is all around)
>ana's dart of gangbang fun (her entire team stands around your useless sleeping ass laughing until almost 5 seconds are gone by until she throws the grenade and the rest of the team ducks you up, bonus for passive aggressive Hello waving at you)

Let's not even talk about the "pro" play style of Genji, who's vastly more faggy than soldier mains and also the devs' golden boy. At least sandman is the only stun gun and nowadays barely even that

>>381681731
>there is literally only 1(one) weapon that lets pyro help an engie (not counting reskins)
That's not true, there's also the Neon Sign, which kills sappers in two hits instead of one and has guaranteed crits against wet players.

Furthermore, don't forget the utility of other weapons like the Degreaser, Reserve Shooter, and even Panic Attack to a lesser extent. The fast-switching nature of these weapons help the Pyro switch from taking out threats to removing sappers more quickly, and can save enough time to save a building.

>>381681670
>September 28, 2007 Patch
>Increased Flamethrower damage at point blank range
>Fixed the Flamethrower hit detection.

>June 19, 2008 Patch (The Pyro Update)
>Added alt-fire compression blast to the basic Flamethrower.
>Tuned the Flamethrower hit detection to improve detection versus retreating opponents.
>Removed Flamethrower's damage falloff (was falling off to 25% by the end).

>April 28, 2010 Patch
>Flamethrower direct damage reduced by 20%.
>Burn duration reduced (10 -> 6 seconds).
>Airblast re-fire delay reduced by 25%.
>Airblast ammo usage reduced by 20%.
>All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows now Mini-Crit.
>Airblasting enemies into environmental deaths now awards the death credit to the Pyro.
Okay, so there's a nerf

>May 19, 2010 Patch
>Increased base damage by 10%.
>Afterburn duration increased (from 6 to 10).
Oh okay, and back to buffing.

>June 27, 2012 Patch (Pyromania Update)
>Increased base damage by +10%.
Okay, that one nerf has been completely undone now.

>December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update)
>The base Flamethrower's damage fall off over distance has been decreased, resulting in higher damage output at range.
>Extinguishing a teammate will now return 20 health to the Pyro.

>July 7, 2016 Patch (Meet Your Match Update)
>Added: Direct damage reduces Medi Gun healing and resist shield effects by 25%

>It can't play the same ambush strategies because the damage of the flamethrower and its afterburn have been reduced for a very long time.
>It can't play the same ambush strategies because the damage of the flamethrower and its afterburn have been reduced for a very long time.
>It can't play the same ambush strategies because the damage of the flamethrower and its afterburn have been reduced for a very long time.
Hmm, yes, all those Flame Thrower nerfs.

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142KB, 647x479px

>>381673883
I want to squeeze that worst class butt.

The pyro's biggest issue is that it's supposed to directly engage alongside other attacking classes, but lacks the raw damage output vs the high survivability and close range potential of Soldier, Demo and Heavy, the Scout can easily stay out of range and also has access to mad milk, a medic won't be alone or can still comfortably take on a pyro in many contexts, and so pyro is basically only useful for fighting the weaker secondary classes who won't be near the front lines or are wandering around stupidly and can easily be killed by any other class.

>>381683628
The pyro is like the spy but less subtle

>>381674714
>12 players total
>extremely linear maps with tight corridors
>its payload copycat is inferior to TF2s

Why did vita saw even meed changing? You only kept a measly 20% uber for -10 HP
Did they change it to
>keep uber percentage when you die
Or something like that?

If you support the Sandcleaver nerf, then you are the reason why tf2 is dying

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49KB, 250x216px

>combine metal with jar of urine
>make bottle of milk

>>381684329
Competitive had it banned because a Medic using it is too powerful. It basically forced one Medic to use it if the other one was, because it was really easy to fuck with Uber advantage. I'm guessing the change came more because of competitive.

>>381684329
Having 20% of uber upon respawning always puts the medic at an advantage over others and depending on what medigun you were using it was like you were literal god on the battlefield.
Now you have you earn you cut after death through melee

>>381679185
Its not all the changes you fucking moron

>>381680035
Regular spies are even easier to kill than DR spies, always will be

>>381684329
You have to hit the enemy with the Vita saw to actually retain percentage of an uber, and now you can retain up to 60% for four hits.

>>381680035
>Feigning death

It's not even that good a feature. It's just a glorified hologram it has nothing to do with faking death as much as giving the spy players a second chance for not paying attention to their surroundings. I miss the Classic Spy's Feigning Death ability.

>>381684663
DR spies are still less effective unless the other team is braindead and ignores the jet engine decloak noise.

>>381685478
>unless the other team is braindead
Have you ever played in a pub?

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9KB, 500x500px

>Darwin's Danger Shield makes Sniper vs Pyro a more even match

As a Pyro main no shitposting, I'm surprisingly okay with this. If I get the drop on them with the Backburner then they should die anyway.

It's reasonable that killing somebody who spotted me should be difficult.

>>381685478
While this is true, DR spies are incredibly annoying (not hard) to get rid of, this change removes that annoyance, so i expect more stock spies now