who else fell for the fallout 4 is shit meme? i thought i'd

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>>381622736
I went into Fallout 4 with low expectations, and came out disappointed

It's only good for exploring and survival mode. Bonus Points for that Horror Mod that recently came out that is actually pretty good.

Everything about it is otherwise shit.

>>381622736
The gunplay and crafting are really fun. The rest of the game really is ass though, the world and quests are worse than 3.

The story and world-building is unironically good.

It's a great game if you only do the story missions and then drop it when it's over.

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>>381623092
>The story and worldbuilding is unironically good
100% disagree. Fallout 4 is like Fallout 3 in that the only way most people enjoy it is by completely ignoring the story Bethesda crafted and doing what you want

>>381623304
But there's noting to do outside the main story

>>381623476
The main story is just that bad in 3 and 4.

>>381622736

Never let /v/ Shape your opinion on anything gaming related, this board has worse taste than reddit and that's saying a lot.

Good luck. You'll spend more time at loading screens then playing.

>>381623092
the story in fallout 4 isn't very good- everything else is pretty solid.

one thing i hated was the "dungeon" setup of the open world. I got really sick of constantly stumbling upon some random assholes in a building, clearing it out, then getting a pittance of ammo and crafting materials before moving onto the next place. they needed more varied combat situations like random encounters in the wild and shit. spooky rare creatures that you'd never find that are totally one of a kind would be cool. the legendary enemy system was a step towards this but didn't get it right.

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I'm only about 6 hours in, so far I like the scavenging aspect of the game, really tries to make it feel like you're trying to survive in a wasteland. It's decent entertainment if you approach it like it's a FPS about a B-movie

>>381622736
It's a very 'meh' game, but crafting alone game me over 200 hours of playtime.

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>>381622736
It ws my first Fallout, I dropped after 20 hours, was bored.
Some time ago I played 3, it was better. I dropped after 27 hours,

These games are really boring.

>tfw shops dont have enough caps
>tfw having to travel around towns just to sell shit off

>>381622875
This. Bethesda needs to change up their formula. It's getting stale.

>>381624018

The legendary enemy system, along with the "randomly enchanted weapon / armor" system was fucking dumb.

They should have just had legendary enemies be elite more difficult enemies instead of just regular enemies whose health resets at 50%.

Items, I don't even fucking know. It was obviously the random loot rewards system that was carried over from Skyrim, just like half the fucking half-assed and uninspired perks.

Fallout 4 in general just felt incredibly rushed, like they took Skyrim and draped a giant sheet over it that said "Fallout 4" in comic-sans.

>>381624298
They just don't know how to write games or make compelling worlds anymore. Oblivion failed in those regard, Fallout 3 did, and so did Skyrim and F4. They should really just hand the reins over to another developer. It's amazing that Doom and Wolfenstein are just fine, but Beth developed games are just so bad

>>381622736
I think one of my many mods may have fucked up my copy. Every time I tried to start a new game, it would never load. I'm hoping a uninstall and reinstall will be enough to fix it.

>>381624220
>played the two worst games in the series

>says entire series is boring

I picked it up recently. Gunplay and exploration is definitely improved but there are a lot of things in the game that don't agree with me.
>Overtly stylized graphics
>No interesting factions
>Weapons casualized
>Stats revamp
>Dialogue wheel
>Voiced Protag
All of this could've been avoided if someone at Bethesda had remembered the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

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>>381624220

>Fallout 3
>better than anything

Fallout 3 was my first fallout, I was one of those babs

I loved it, was one of my favorite games, time passed, new vegas came out, adored it, still my favorite game

Then I saw project wasteland some time later, both games combined? My dream come true

Turns out putting 3 side by side with new vegas just really really highlights 3's shortcomings (Linear story, ugly samey urban map, same enemies, level scaling, limited weapons/armor)

Now just thinking about playing 3 makes me shudder, 4 is far better than 3.

>>381622736
The problem with the game is they havnt improved on it since fallout three. It's mediocre at best and only survives because of the brand label, whilst the mechanics in the game are fantastic lack of story just kicks it back into the dirt. Dumbed down dialogue just throws it further into the ground, it's no longer an RPG it's a bloody adventure game.

>>381624051
I felt the same way, then I realized that was literally all there was to do

>>381623092
>The story and world-building is unironically good
Objectively wrong, those are by far the worst aspects of the game

fallout 4 is the only bethesda game I managed to beat without needing to install mods to keep me interested. it's also the only bethesda game that didn't crash even without mods. I don't know why everyone says it's worse than fallout 3.

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>>381625102
Get a load of this turbo casul.

>>381624220
Maybe you should try playing something other than the worst two games in the series then.

>>381624018
The story is retarded, the main factions are retarded, you have little to no choices in resolving quests, it's all retarded.

And it adds pratically nothing to the gameplay and engine. I'm still playing Oblivion 5 after all those years.

2 > 1 > NV >>>> 3 >>>>>4

>>381624984
>Objectively wrong

prove it

There are a lot of legitimate complains about it.

The dialogue options are, far and away, the worst in the series.

Most perks aren't "perks" in the classical sense, they just allow you to do the things you already do some amount/percentage better. That is boring. That is what skills were for. Perks are supposed to be game-changing.

The story is riddled with plot holes, and characters making senseless decisions.

That said, I still found that I ended up spending more time with FO4 than I did with FO:NV. The gunplay is the best so far (despite the standard guns being pretty boring), and the town building is sometimes frustratingly buggy or shit just won't fit together right, but still eats your time while also creating a reason to go scavenging.

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>1>NV
>3>4

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>>381622736
Congrats Anon! You're officially _____cancer_____!

i did not care about the lack of rpg stuff
but most quests are so fucking boring.
also all the places look the same inside, they all feel copypasted.

i uninstalled before finishing the main quest

>tfw the game just gets too easy

are there more big enemies besides mirelurk queens and deathclaws

also

>adding stupid animations to deathclaws

>>381625845
>I don't care about lack of RPG stuff in an RPG game

You are what is wrong with everything today.

the fact that they give you power armor so early ruins it for me

My favorite part is when the BoS arrive swinging their metal dicks at the whole commonwealth. It was satisfying taking my time building an army to oppose them.

>>381622875
i pirated it and still didnt get my moneys worth

>>381625880
Behemoths, Hermit Crabs, Yao Gaois, some other shit I'm forgetting.

>>381625950
Am I the early one who just left that shit at Sanctuary? I prefer aesthetics than just using the strongest shit available.

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>>381625513
>no 2, T, or BoS

>get shot by a protectron
>defend ones self
>nick valentine hated that

>>381622736
The game itself is fine
The story is what sucks ass

>>381625936
i'm not saying that i don't enjoy rpgs, it's just that i knew fallout 4 didn't have that and i was somehow ok with it... but i'm sure i could have enjoyed FO4 more if it had rpg stuff on it.

my whole point was that even though i knew it wouldn't be good, i tried it and still got disappointed

>>381626118

>Tactics
aka "Everyone Loved The Combat System, Right?"
>BoS
why would this ever be mentioned outside of "things that did more damage to Fallout than 3"?

>>381626102
I think the t-45 you get at the start is shit. You can hold off on using power armor until you get the enclave one and by then you have enough materials saved up to upgrade it to the max.

>>381622736
i've tried to play it 3 times, it's utter garbage

>>381622736
It's great. /v/ just hates games that everyone likes

>>381625936
>I care more about stuff that takes up less than 5% of overall play time than stuff that you're doing for 95% of the game
on the other hand you're the reason wrpgs are a regressive genre

>>381626136
>Mfw I disliked Nick in the end

I tried to hang out with the main characters and the Railway and ended up joining the Brotherhood in the end.

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Is that sim city mod interesting enough to save settlements?

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>>381625495
The game blatantly and freely ignores the series canon, showing that the writers genuinely did not care.
The dialogue wheel system is utter garbage. Nobody can tell me otherwise. You get 4 options, and usually 3/4 of those options boil down to 'yes'. Sometimes, even 'no' means 'yes'. It really takes away freedom of choice.
The voiced protag was a giant mistake. The protagonists in these games are meant to be malleable, and open to roleplay however you please. The protag in F4 has a very specific backstory, and a very specific way of speaking. He's not even a great character. They try to give him a set character, while giving you enough room to kinda-sorta give your own character to him, but that just ends up in a protag that's blander than a wet cracker.

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>>381622912
'Horror Mod'? I'm sorry, do you mean that gray ENB? Because that's hardly a 'horror mod.'

>>381625502

I remember when they released an update that added a whole bunch of weird machinery fuckery to settlements, and half the shit either didn't even fit right, or was so buggy that when it did snap, it STILL looked all fucked up.

Then the Vault Dweller DLC comes out, and it took me an hour just to learn how to properly orient certain pieces together before I finally said fuck it and looked up a video, and finished making my vault layout.

Then I had to find ANOTHER vid on why my electricity doesn't work, just to find out that I had to glue a shitload of those fucking conduit switches to every wall piece.

THEN I started doing the fucking quests for the vault lady, and holy fuck what a piece of shit that DLC is.

Bethesda needs to seriously park their fucking RPGs into the hiatus box and redevelop their approach to developing fucking RPGs, because Fallout 4 has certainly proven to everyone that they've truly lost their way on their road to catering endlessly and aggressively to the lowest common denominator.

Fallout 4 was a travesty of an RPG, if you could even fucking call it that.

>>381626613
Right, builds and character progression are outdated.

Hopefully Fallout 5 will be a true CoD clone, that will save the WRPG genre!

>>381626891
Sim settlements speeds it all up. You just have to worry about setting up defenses while the rest takes care of itself.

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>>381626968
lol anon just relax and have fun with it its just a game :^)

>>381627119
>Get to make a vault
>It doesn't actually do anything and is a fucking pain to even set up
>A bunch of stupid gimmicky experiments that don't actually do anything and NOT doing crazy experiments gives you better results

Fucking why.

>>381622736
Fallout 4 is below average and the worst in the series.

The entire addition of base building is fucking horrible, the plot is absolutely garbage, the factions are unlikeable faggots. Chose the Institute which is supposed to be morally wrong one, did not care at all. Blew everyone to bits.

>>381627067

I think they're talking about PILGRIM, which, as a matter of fact, turned out to actually be a really good atmosphere mod.

I thought it was gonna just be a shitty ENB shader, but it adds in some decent music, changes the look of some enemies, and makes the weather overall more darker, dreary, and foreboding.

Couple it with the conifers mod that turns the CW into a forested wasteland, and you have a decently atmospheric spooky spelunker.

>>381622736
>Buy Fallout 4 on PC day one.
>Oh boy.
>Get bored.
>Leave it on while doing things, dont realize how short the refund timer is.
>No refund.
>End up cheating, fix it so I have everything in the game.
>More bored.
>Mod it with mini gun nuke tosser.
>Im done.

>Buy it for $5 on PS4.
>Cant cheat.
>Actually having fun because im away from the PC.
>My GTX 1080 goes to waste.

>>381622736
But Fallout 4 IS shit. Getting memed is for retards.
The only way to make Fallout 4 good is to delude yourself into believing that it's an open world shooter, it's not an RPG in any way and that it's not related to Fallout in any way.
Even then, it's still shit.

I got it for 8 dollars from gamestop and all the dlc for 20. It's been worth every fucking penny so far.

The best way to experience Bethesda games is to wait for a couple years when you can get the game all the dlc for less than 30 bucks.

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>>381622736
i hate fallout 4 with a burning passion. i signed up for several review websites just to post my review for this shitty abomination of the series.

>muh gunplay
literally the single (1) one [only] thing that was done better than the previous games

>main story
>factions
>companions
>dialogue
all utter garbage

dont forget the endless rehashed quests, pointless settlement system, and borderlands tier weapon system


i hate this game so much i post about it almost every time i see one of these threads

>>381627119

>set up some of the rolling ball contraptions shit
>some of it doesn't even snap together
>some shit won't snap because it either doesn't sit flat on the terrain or is just outright bugged
>find mod that fixes Bethesda's own incompetence, and also fixes some bugs with the duplicators or whatever that I didn't even know about
>shit snaps fine now, but also looks like shit because it ultimately just hovers off the ground because all terrain in settlements is as flat as a celluloid ass

I firmly believe little planning went into any of the settlement stuff, and it was just one guy who came up with it, and Todd was like "Ok this is awesome, really cool - focus purley on this and whatever you have we'll implement!" and then no actual QC went into settlement features.

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>tfw F4 will never have the best radio station mod

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>>381627343

I remember finding a mod that turns the entire commwealth into a jungle, and it was an absolute piece of shit, I hope that's not the one you're talking about.

>>381627352
underage b&

>>381627705

No. That mods a laggy sack of oversized shit.

I'm pretty sure the mod is literally called Commonwealth Conifers, and it just swaps some of the flora with healthier plantlife.

I had it last time I played, and it was actually really decent and didn't look like ass, like a lot of those greener CW mods look.

>>381627582
The settlement stuff was part of it early, you can see concept art of "neo-colonial settlers" online who eventually became Preston and the minutemen.

>>381627705

Commonwealth Conifers

Swaps a bunch of the vanilla overworld assets with plants and trees from the DLC with the synths.

It's actually decent.

the shooting is fun. mod in a non-power armor jetpack and it's more fun. Settlement building satiated my autism. Survival was great. curie was a pretty good fotm waifu I also fugged hancock. The story and quests are trash. Loot was bad.
6/10 game

>>381627468
>companions
I didn't think they were too bad. Valentine and Curie were likable, a few others were very forgettable but on the whole they weren't garbage. Unless you're talking about the companion AI. That was garbage.

The rest of your complaints are pretty accurate though.

the quests suck, the settlements get tedious before you finish building up even one of them, gameplay loop consists of collecting garbage to upgrade your shit so you can clear out dungeons so you can collect more garbage, removed skills and turned perks into boring '+10% damage per tier' bullshit instead of having anything interesting, character dialogue is absolute trash even when compared to fallout 3, the factions are all stupid without even having to go into the stories plot holes.

as for the positives:
power armor being more of a vehicle than just armor you wear was cool and not having to open a menu every time you loot something is convenient.

>>381622736
you'll probably only enjoy it once tho.
its replayability is shit, you have the same voice and dialog no mater how much you try to rp the character you play differently.

the only way you can find a 2nd play though fun is if you blank out all dialog and make your own characters story or motives

>>381627848
>Faggot detected.

Im sorry I own consoles and a powerful PC and could give a fuck where I play the shit provided I can enjoy it.

Maybe you should get a job.

Every time I play this, I make a new character, start a new game, rescue the Minutemen dude from the town, do all the shit to set up the town, leave town, and then just explore for 30 levels before getting bored and stopping.

Games ok if you like to explore, but there's absolutely zero depth to anything in the world. Everything is just "there" and mostly occupied by hostiles.

No bandits that you can talk to or join, no power plants, stations, or any resourceful areas occupied by any faction that can be interacted with in any way, everything just shoots or attacks on site, and it's fucking boring.

All there is is settlements, and those are miserably fucking boring and add nothing to the actual game. It feels forced as fuck. Not to mention the resource requirements and having to constantly go scavenge loads of shit to build shit gets old incredibly fast.

>>381628224
not my fault you have 0 self control

>>381628196
you can enjoy it for about 10-20 hours before you realize its shit

>>381628224
Don't get so defensive bud you don't need to justify your extravagant wastes of money to anybody least of all someone on an imageboard.
>>381627352

>>381627352

Only time I ever use console commands in Bethesda games is when I get stuck in shit and have to TCL my way out, or if I'm playing Skyrim and want to do a heavy RP character and command a set of gear in off the bat so I don't get bored climbing the leveled list for 30 hours.

Otherwise, cheating in Bethesda games, let alone pretty much any game, instantly spoils the fun. Unless it's like, the PS2 GTA games. Cheating in those games is always fun and rewards you with some crazy experiences.

>one ghoul fight
>intense battle music plays

My biggest complaint is that there are only like 3 ""cities"" which were more like large towns. I've never seen anyone mention the lack of civilizations, but it seemed like a massive downgrade compared to 3 or NV

>>381622736
there was more time spent on marketing then the game's development
old, shit engine with same old bugs and limitations
lauded voice acting managed to destroy any choice
entire sections clearly cut

the only positive was the power armor.

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>>381628321
you're missing out on a whole lot.

Watch Oxhorn on youtube and he does complete wrap-ups of entire locations.

I mean hey, it honestly might not be for you, but i enjoyed the hell out of the game.

>>381628321
>intentionally avoids story missions
>complains about lack of depth in the world

You're the type of idiot that would avoid shooting the ball in a basketball game and complain that you didn't score very many points.

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>Play cannibal drug addict.
>No evil scumbag path.

Fuck you, Todd.

Fallout 3 and by extension NV and 4 has the WORST thing ever in their compass. Nothing makes exploration or progression more linear than "Walk towards the marker on your compass". Removing it isn't even a suitable idea for a first time run either since Beth never wrote the story with proper directions.

maybe you have shit taste f4m

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>>381629894
>the story missions in Fallout 4 add depth to the world

>>381625102
>only beth game that didn't crash

you're right on this count, by far the most stable of all of their games, even heavily modded, a shame the city runs like piss no matter what you do to it.

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>>381630051
>Play as wasteland jesus
>Perfectly content

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>>381629894

The story itself is so fucking bad that there is no way I will force myself through it a 4th time.

First time it was ok. Nothing spectacular.
Second time to choose alternate choices and really absorb the story, I realized how bad it actually was, and how extremely black and white the factions were.
Third time, I don't even know why I did it. Think I was doing a BoS RP character around the time Survival Mode got it's reworked update, and ended up just going through the rest of the story for shits and gigs.

The story is really fucking bad to the point where it sometimes aggravates me.

One thing I've noticed though, as bad a thing as the voiced protag was, the female VA for the protag is actually really good, while the male VA for the protag often tends to over-exaggerate and over-deliver their lines in a way where it's sometimes laughably fucking bad. One example being the Sarcastic response to when Nick jokes around and acts like Kelogg after coming out from exploring his brains, and the protag outright shouts in fury at Nick, telling him he'll kill him. It was so bad and so far away from being even remotely sarcastic of a response that I laughed pretty damn hard.

>>381630252

You know, usually when playing Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout NV, I find a lot of really decent armor and clothing mods that I like.

But for Fallout 4, everything clashes so terribly against the style of the game, let alone against everything else available in terms of mods, that I'm never fucking happy with any of it.

I think there's a grand total of maybe 4 armor mods I have, and they mostly just recycle game assets and fit in perfectly well, while one other is completely original, but also fits in perfectly to the style of the game.

So much shit looks as if your character somehow found a perfectly untouched GUESS outlet and took everything available. The mod scene for F4 sucks man.

I mean people would say GTA IV missions were " Drive to X place, Shoot Y guy"

but Fallout 4 missions are the most dull thing ever.
The only mission, excluding companion quests, i can remember is the reason i dropped the game, the "go get a bucket of paint, (OPTIONAL) mix the paint" in the paiting factory.

And the only good things they do, they manage to ruin it

>in some factory
>read some logs about the backstory of the place, and the raiders living there
>kill them all without option to interact with them about it

>come back 1 week later is crawling with more raiders

Its mediocre but not terrible. If it weren't saddled with the Fallout IP I'd even call it "okay".

I went into it already pissed that they had butchered what few RPG elements remained and was pleasantly surprised they at least made the gameplay satisfying, even if its not an rpg anymore.

>>381630316
David Jaffe is cool as fuck.

>>381630148

t. Someone who has never done the story

A lot of places are locked behind factions, and a lot of places are associated with factions that you wouldn't expect at first glance.

>>381630575

I love the context behind that pic.

It was from Season 3 of The Tester, when /v/ was going crazy over it and doing streams of it every time it aired. Jaffe looked, the entire episode, as if he was thinking constantly, "What even the fuck am I doing here? Why am I here? When can I leave? This shit is terrible."

When the girls started up their bullshit drama in the end when they did the eliminations, his facial expressions were fucking priceless.

Easily one of my favorite reaction images I have.

>>381630694
Sounds funny.

>>381622875
>that paint job
HAHA nice

>>381624368
I wholeheartedly concur.

>>381630493
There's nothing wrong with GO TO X, KILL Y missions. They're better than anything else if the combat system is good. IV is the best GTA 'cause there's less of the variety bullshit.

Also, sick driving physics.

Only works for action games, though. People expect more from shit like Fallout.

>>381622736
I can't wait to finally play this game when the VR version comes in October.

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>>381622736
I didnt, I was hyped as a Fallout fan can be. But right out of the gate when I saw how they completely abandoned the RPG machanics that were designed to take the top down Fallout and make it FPS, I knew I was going to fucking hate it. It feels more like a modern inspired Fallout reboot with rpg lite mechanics instead of a proper RPG and thats what Fallout is at the end of the day, not just the superficial 50s and apocalyptic setting where you shoot stuff. They intentionally missed the point to cater to a larger audience and it worked I guess.

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I've played every single game (even the weird diablo clone). I love them all. All of them. Especially Tactics.


Please give me a Tactics sequel.

>>381631086

If the update is only just them adding VR, I'll be pretty disappointed.

There's no way a VR update requires more than just implementing headtracking with a recalibrate feature.

Unless they fuck it up with shit motion controls nobody wants and thats why it took them forever to release the VR update.

Though, I'm not sure why I would expect them to invest in reworking anything within the game and not just add VR capabilities.

In all honesty, their efforts would be far better off being invested in adding VR to Skyrim. While Skyrim's easily the most shallow of the TES games, it's far better a game than F4 was.

>>381623304
>>381623476
Both of these statements are true
The main story is fucking lame as fuck and full of tropes and shit, but the world itself is pretty fun to play in. It's like a virtual playground where you can do what you want.
Bethesda needs to realize that Fallout is and always will be a ROLE PLAYING game. Give us more choices, real choices, that affect the game's world and it's interactions with you.

INTERACTIVITY > STORY

>>381631420

I say they work on both interactivity AND story.

One is extremely poor and lacking in proper depth and substance, while the other practically doesn't exist beyond building a bunch of resourcefully-exhausting shanty towns.

>>381631420
People bought it in fucking droves. You got no hope of shit ever getting better.

>>381631379
Have you played in VR before?

Like with a vive?

Because that's the whole point fallout 4 VR took more than a year to be ready, they're adding motion controls, which is what makes room scale vr good.

Fallout 4 VR is a standalone game, that includes all the DLC of the normal game.

And skyrim vr is coming in October as a psvr timed exclusive.

Also a built from the ground up for VR Doom game is coming out for PC VR in october.

>>381631776

I wish I could just play this shit with only the VR and not the motion controls.

It's what I've wanted from the beginning - to just play games with a VR headset with headtracking but still use practical KB+M controls.

It's what I always saw VR headsets to be, personally. But instead we got devs getting all over-imaginative and trying to over-innovate and complicate things.

Like, I get it, but at the same time, sometimes simplicity is key.

>>381631776
Yo. Todd. Your games fucking suck.

Neck yourself.

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>>381631360
why Tactics?

Seriously, why would anyone think Tactics is above mediocre? Even the devs admit it.

>>381631948
Honestly it's more simple to hold a gun in your hand and aim it, than it is to look directly center at an enemy to make the crosshair line up.

That being said, I know skyrim supports a ds4 controller for input so I can't see why they wouldn't add that to the fallout game aswell. Only time will tell

>>381631948
I dunno, the idea of VR with traditional controls seems wonky to me, like you're THERE, the disconnect between eye and monitor is gone, but sitting on your ass and hitting keys is still very tangible and it clashes

just my impression of the thought, headsetless peasant here weighing in

>>381631957
They were the only good vr announcements for e3

>>381632131
I played through RE7 with that gameplay style, it has been my favourite vr experience yet

>>381631723
I enjoyed building the shanty towns, but like
>>381628321
>>381628146
mention it does wear on you after a while. I agree both story and game play need work, but I'd sacrifice story for gameplay any day.
>>381631729
You never know man, Todd's marketing cucks might be lurking. Call me optimistic but maybe some of these gripes will reach him.

>>381632006
Because it was a fun change of formula in a familiar setting on a perspective we haven't had. I am also a big fan of tactics games in general.

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this looked like the only worthwile VR game, did it go anywhere?

>>381632131

Nah, it makes sense.

I have a headset (old gen1 Occulus I bought from a buddy for 150 bucks), but I don't have the handset controls.

Maybe actually having some might change my opinion, but I hate fussing with the sensitivity options for analogue sticks constantly until they barely feel right. It's aggravating.

I rage quit RDR Hard mode and played on Normal instead because the sensitivity and acceleration of the sticks kept causing me to endlessly over-pan my enemies. I recall the mission where you're on horseback and have to fend off a shitload of horseback bandits, and holy mother of FUCK was it a nightmare without auto aim.

Had similar frustrations with Uncharted 3.

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>play FO:T
>Real time tactics with no pause or turn based with minute-long NPC turns

>>381632349
The game was good until super mutants, then it turned ok

it absolutely shits the bed when the robots become the main enemy, it's so boring killing hundreds of the motherfuckers

doesn't help that small guns are literally worthless against them, meaning if you didn't read a guide beforehand your main character will do no damage

>>381632319
Pretty sure newfags think the Todd meme is legit praise.

We're fucked.

>>381622736
Gameplay is fun, power armor is cool to use, and seeing the updated graphics is really nice.

The story is pretty interesting until you find/discover the Institute, then it went downhill from there.

Never felt for it since /v/ already tricked me into wasting my time on New Vegas by saying it's like the classic games. I've heard that it's pretty much a casualized version of STALKER before playing and enjoyed it for what it is.

>>381622736
I'm playing it right now and I like it for what it is. Also I pirated it so I have zero regrets

>>381632446
RDR? VR?

The fuck, dude?

>>381632434
Yeah they added community workshop to it.

So maps like dust 2 and the factory from Golden eye are a few of them.

Beyond that it still has quite a way to go. But the best competitive vr shooter I've tried.

>>381632446

Was it the mission where you're protecting the train on horseback from all the Mexicans?

Because that mission was a nightmare on Hard for me as well. Took me quite a few tries.

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At least the gunplay is good now

>>381632594

No, I'm expressing my frustration with playing games that requiring aiming with control sticks, and my worries of playing VR games with VR controller sticks.

I played RDR on a PS3. The free aim on Hard mode made certain missions a fucking chore if you ran out of Deadeye.

But then again, when only your movement is used by the sticks, and your aim is used by holding a button and actively aiming, it's probably a lot better.

I could probably get used to it in that case.

>>381632508
The graphics are dog shit.

The fuck are you talking about?

>>381632446
I would hit up a vr arcade if you have one, it's hard to describe but being able to move more freely, and legit pick up something off the ground makes vr all that more special. Even better with the stuff that's coming in the future.

>>381632470
I agree it got worse as it went but I still had a lot of fun. It doesn't hold a candle to XCOM (Any of the mainline ones really) or even Commandos but there was still a charm I adored.

Give sequel.

>>381632612

Yes.

My girlfriend at the time actually spun around at my computer desk and laughed at me for getting so frustrated over something so dumb, she had never seen me so upset before.

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>>381631776
>Fallout 4 VR is a standalone game
>Doom VR is standalone and uses fucking TELEPORTING

>>381632731
Oh. OK.

>>381632446

VR is different.

You won't be using the analog sticks for aiming, just movement. Aiming would be up to your ability to actually aim your device.

You might be misunderstanding how it works, but I think if you gave it a try, it would become totally more preferential than using a KBM.

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>>381632785
Shit like this is why I love playing on the hardest setting.

>That rush when you finally fucking win.

Fallout 4 did a lot to bring the series technologically up to date. I downloaded a mod to use the power armor jetpack out of power armor, and, barring a few exceptions here and there, I'm not seeing a poorly crafted facade of a game world for doing so. Buildings are fully modeled and in fact have stuff tucked away on their roofs, I'm not falling in holes in the geometry, seeing into the void or hitting invisible walls, and overall it feels a lot more like a cohesive world. Compare that to fallout 3, new vegas or even Skyrim and it's a huge step up. combat is much improved, with better gunplay, AI that isn't trash tier, grenades actually being useful, stuff like that.

It'd be the perfect setup for obsidian circa 2010 to come along and make a slam dunk New Vegas style game that's actually an RPG. That's never gonna happen though, c'est la vie

>>381622736
Bethesda's IPs each had a short lived run of some god-tier titles at one point or another, and as such the bar has been set very high for their products. You get something like F4, a 6~7/10 by any reasonable standard, and it's going to falter every time when compared to fond memories of F2 or Morrowind.

>>381632969

I eventually did finish the game on Hard, but I can't say it felt satisfying. The whole experience was moderately frustrating.

Playing on Normal felt infinitely more enjoyable.

Free aiming 3rd person games with controllers is a nightmare. Idk how consolebros do it. I don't know how I did it so well as a kid / teenager playing Halo 3 and Gears.

>>381632793
Yeah but I will allow you to strafe...

So I guess I'm roleplaying a crab when I get that game?

>>381632992

World building is entirely different than story building.

Bethesda always manages to craft interesting and fun worlds. Their world building is ace. Even CDPR commended them on this years back, but commented on how they're not very good at filling them in.

It's the mechanics and story aspects where the games tend to fall short of the mark.

>>381633119
>He's going to buy it.

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1>NV>2>3>Tactics>4

>>381633573
That dog has a human cock.

>>381633437
I'm already 2000$ in what's another 60?

>>381633246
I mean you're right, but that's not even what I'm referring to; I'm talking about how it feels more technically cohesive. Compare the ruins of DC in 3, which were a clusterfuck of enormous rubble piles and invisible walls that you had to use subway systems to navigate through. It all felt disjointed. Downtown Boston, by comparison, is open, easier to traverse and stays cohesive even if you're travelling by rooftop

>>381633573
BOS>2>NV>1>T>3>4

>>381622736
Its been said before, but I'll say it again. Fallout 4 is a GOOD GAME. It's FUN. However it is NOT a GOOD FALLOUT GAME. It both didnt quite reach the bar of the other games (yes we are a bit spoiled) and it made a lot of gameplay changes that alienated the core fallout audience (mainly dialogue and skills).

>>381633904

Which all boils down to their world building capabilities.

Each game their worlds are more and more beatiful, intricate, detailed, and interesting to explore, but other aspects of their games tend to worsen.

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I genuinely enjoyed Far Harbor and feel like most of that DLC was at the very least on par with some of the better quest-lines in New Vegas, even if it was more or less a rehashed/refinement of Point Lookout in some ways. Wish it didn't focus on more of that boring synth bullshit, but I'll take what I can get.

The actual town of Far Harbor is cozy and made me wish there were more actual fucking town questhubs in the base game that you didn't have to build yourself. Knowing that there are only like 2 or 3 proper towns in the entire game just makes exploration less appealing or interesting because you just know literally 90% of what you're going to find are a bunch of faceless hostile mooks for you to blow holes through. It kinda kills the feeling of a wasteland roadtrip I got from the previous games and that really sucks.

I feel like FO4 is fun enough if you completely ignore the main quest, or only do it to unlock some items. The whole thing is so stupid I couldn't care, just couldn't.

I left my synth-kid in Spectacle Island. I built about 25 deathclaw traps there and visited every week to release them. Seeing the kid flee from 50 deathclaws eternally was the best thing the main quest had to offer.

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>>381622736
>Playing games where you skill doesn't actually matter, and all that matters is how high your level is and how much you've grinded

No thanks. I'll stick to STALKER, where you could beat the game with the starting shit if you wanted.

>>381634083
They can't seem to decide if they want to stick to the RPG roots or go full FPS, so what we ended up getting was a serviceable FPS with mediocre RPG elements.

>>381632741
It's still an upgrade compared to the 3/New Vegas engine, even if you hate the game it still looks better.

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>>381633769
'mirin bro?

>>381632496
You know what, you might be right. Fuck is the world coming to?

>>381634369

Fallout 4 certainly suffers from an identity crisis.

Like someone else in here mentioned (quite aggressively), Bethesda should really concentrate on reformulating their RPG system. It's become horrendously watered down and diluted to the point where it all just feels like we're given the illusion of playing an RPG, when in reality, hardly any of the shit aside from the perks that make your weapons more effective (which originally was managed by the removed stats system, where higher stats meant higher damage and weapon effectiveness) matter at all.

>>381634125
I dont like 4 overall but far harbor was a good way to emphasis its strengths and compensate for its weaknesses. It:
>had a morally ambiguous story with meaningful player choice, and clear effects of the player's choice, all of which were missing in the main game
>the large variety of challenging and interesting enemies and locations, as well as the sheer size of the map and content brought out the strengths of fo4's shooting and exploration
>lots of cool loot
>linked the main map to the dlc in a reasonable story way (not lazy bs like nukaworld)

>>381634143
It's a shame the bethesda modding community is going to die off for good before LL gets the good shit in fallout 4 and ATF manages to add in their loli/shota hacks, so I can watch this dumb robot kid get raped by deathclaws

>>381632741

Fallout 4 actually looks pretty decent in some aspects. Sure it falls short in some spots, but Fallout 4 hardly looks shit. Unless you're playing on console, then yes, it does look like shit. It looks muddy as all fuck on a PS4.

>>381634583
How do you make a good DLC like Far Harbor and then go fuck it all up with Nuka World?

>>381634337
>I cant beat the game with the pistol I grabbed in the vault
sounds to me like you're just bad

>hey what if we take new vegas, remove all the rpg from it, make what's left worse (other than the graphics), then tack on some shitty basebuilding mechanic that we waste half our paid dlc "expanding upon"
>oh and let's ruin the modding community by inflicting consoletards upon it thus ensuring nothing will ever be fixed

>>381634667
Willing to bet Nuka World had a third of the dev time. It's just a collection of 4 big dungeons.

>>381634575
I actually prefer the FO1/2/Tactics system where your skill doesn't determine damage, just accuracy.

I guess that in a first person shooter you could make it affect jamming chance, reload speed and such.

>>381634583

Far Harbor actually kind of felt like some semblance of an actual RPG, which made me really curious as to the development structure of Fallout 4 prior to it's launch.

Like, was the initial game rushed as fuck and the developers had little time to really refine the story aspects or something? Because in comparison, Far Harbor actually surprised me in the quality of it's story content. The dialogue with the synth leader, especially with Nick present, was surprisingly good, and proved that SOMEBODY at Bethesda could actually write worth a shit.

I mean, it wasn't exemplary or anything, but it wasn't bad, pretty decent actually.

The raider DLC wasn't too bad either, but all you did in that DLC was run around capturing shit, and then run around capturing settlements. It's story content was minimal as fuck.

Fallout 4 is a decent game and a good open world shooter.

But it's a bad Fallout game and a bad RPG.

>>381634791
>Implying they took anything from new vegas
>implying their building blocks for 4 weren't skyrim and 3
>implying new vegas is even a part of Bethesda's official fallout canon anymore

>>381634667
From what I've heard, and take this with a grain of salt because I don't have any source to back this up, Nuka-World was developed by the same team that did Automatron and was separate from the one that did Far Harbor.

>>381634667

Probably different teams.

They should take the team that did Far Harbor and have them spearhead the development of their next RPG, and get rid of everyone else, because FH was actually some good shit.

>>381634791

I'd be willing to bet that all assets, including the main dev files and everything Obsidian had when making NV, were all dumped, deleted, and trashed when the project ended and they finished up all the DLC.

There's no way Bethesda would have excluded half the shit NV had if they had actually had those files on hand and actually observed them and, fuck me, even played the fucking game.

>>381634997
which would explain why automatrash and fluke-a world are the lamest and why far-out harbor is the best

>>381624368
Agreed. Skyrim and Fallout 4 are both games with many terrible design choices, whose only saving graces are decent world design and atmosphere. The mods are the only thing keeping it from being an absolute train wreck

>>381634667
>>381634997

How do you make a great game like New Vegas and then go fuck it all up with Fallout 4?

its not a bad game by any means but its only worth 20 dollars tops

>>381635124
New Vegas was Obsidian, not Beth.

>>381634856

True. Gun damage should just be static. In NV and 3, weapon condition effected it's damage, which was a good incentive to keep your weapons fixed up.

Not sure why the fuck they did away with item degradation in Skyrim in F4. It added a world of depth to the games, and would have added so much fucking more since both F4 and Skyrim now finally had crafting systems that could have complimented the degradation system.

i really hate the new dialogue, no one wants to have a fucking long annoying conversation

>>381635210
good thing you can just walk away from it ey petey :^)

it's alright, better than 3.

>>381622736
it's an utterly godawful fallout game but a fun shooter

>>381635183

Because Bethesda are professionals at taking 2 steps forward followed by 4 steps back.

It's like upgrading your car to a V6, and then kicking off one of your fucking drive wheels.

>>381635210

This may come as a shock to you, but it just might be that RPGs aren't for you.

I think Far Cry might be more up your alley.

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>>381635245
>can't have more than 4 conversation options
>sometimes you just have to walk away from a conversation because there's no room for a "goodbye"
>sometimes a character will chase your ass forever and start conversations to begin a quest because there's no room for an option where you just talk to him about the quest

>>381635503
Not that guy, but I hate the FO4 dialogue primarily because it's shallow.

But the voiced protag does make the conversations drag on. I read faster than they speak, so I'd rather just read the conversations.

>>381635654
one good thing is that if you skip conversations while drunk the PC will say shit like "blah blah bbfff", "jusssh... stop talking" and "yeaa?".

>>381635654

Yeah, I can't even come to imagine why they decided to go the route they did with the dialogue. I think someone somewhere stated why at some point, but I can't recall.

Probably wanted to do something similar to another game, but Idk why someone like Bethesda would want to imitate other games.

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>>381635781
>not realizing voiced dialog usually kills immersive RPGs
>not realizing voiced dialog HAS killed every Beth game

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>>381622736
It's nice for a while. but then you really get sick of it. The biggest problem is you can't roleplay for shit in this game, you're stuck with the parent shit. Obsidian better get their shot again, I want some real Fallout.

I had a bug in my world that basically made it unplayable, I lost so many fucking hours.

I am not sure if I will ever play it again. Redownloading mods whenever I had to format Windows was annoying as fuck also.

>>381635876

Like other people say, Fallout 4 was probably a hugely rushed project, and I think even Todd stated that they were testing the waters with quite a few of it's features.

When you look back, the game came out the year it was announced. They announced it that summer, and then that November it was out. There's no way they spent enough time on it as they should have.

It's a shame that the Fallout franchise would be what they choose to use as a guinea pig for their shit RPG ideas.

>>381623092
>Were a group that hordes technology
>lets nuke this bunker full of technology

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>>381635771
>accidentally drank a beer while storming the Institute with the BoS while spamming healing items
>come up to Shaun on his death bed and playout his dialogue yadda yadda
>accidentally skip his last line of dialogue
>"Yeah. Yeah yeah, mhmmm"
>my last words to my dying son before I tore his life's work and everything he stood for to the ground
My character clearly had no emotional attachment to the main quest and neither did I.

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>spend hours creating mods for Fallout 4, including an armor mashup pack with like 18 separate outfits
>spend more hours tweaking my config files to get the best ratio of performance to aesthetics possible, and tweaking mods others have made to fit my preferred play style
>have actually played the game so little that I'm still on my original character from when the game first released and I only just recently completed Dangerous Minds

I honestly have more fun modding this game than I have playing it. Sure, I spent a lot of time modding 3, NV, Skyrim, etc as well, but I always enjoyed actually playing the game more than modding it (well, maybe not with Skyrim, but not to the same extent as 4). It's like the game is so bad that the only way I can really enjoy it is by trying to improve it.

Really, I just want to start my three billionth NV playthrough, but I'm trying to wait for The Frontier before playing NV again.

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>>381636008
>Showing shin

its a good game but not a good fallout game

I like the lore of these games
The vaults, the war, fev experiments, and all the factions before and after the war. But Fallout 4 is indeed stale shit. Most of your encounters in the game is just saying yes, ask a question, or shoot everyone dead. Bethesda always makes games where they've got hundreds of npcs but you always end up remembering a handful of interesting ones. Even the companion are dogshit compared to NV. Cait is a shittier Cass, Strong had less going on with him than Granny lily, I didn't even bother with Mcree. Nick and Curie are the only decent companions but they dven fucked curie up with her combat ai in her human body. Settlement building was fucking lame when every building started looking the same and fucked with npc AI. The armor variety was also a huge joke.

>>381636008
You'll notice that Bethesda games do this a lot. It's a "Role playing game" where you're forced into a predefined role with very little wiggle room, and you're more or less along for the ride that they wrote for you. Often times you're not even the main character. You're the sidekick that stands there while someone else makes the big speech to rally the troops(Lyon speech), or you're just... there as everyone dies around you(Raven Rock, Liberty Prime) or you're just going place to place to see the real main character, Dad!

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>>381635771
>Takes a hit of Psycho
>FUCKING KILLLLLLL

>>381636008
THICC

>>381622875
Is that a real gun painted like the Zapper?

>>381636524
Thing is, they only ever do this kind of shit with Fallout for god knows what reason. Every TES game has you start off as a literal blank slate beyond the fact that you always start off as a prisoner or a captive of some sort. No familial ties, no backstory, nadda, zilch, beyond whatever chosen one title they give you if you decide to follow the main quest anyway.

I blame that fuck Emil and his daddy issues.

>>381636763
Yep. a Glock 17 made to look like a Zapper

>>381635781

pete hines indirectly suggested it was because they didn't give a shit about the dialogue and skipped through it to get to more pew pew, which makes plenty of sense as mongoloids are their entire demographic after skyrim

>>381626968
This post helped me finally nail down my issue with this game. The voiced protag doesn't allow me to roleplay the way I want to.

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Okay guys, i bought the ultimate edition of new vegas on steam to see what's so great about it that a deceased friend of mine loved it so much. I mean besides being set in vegas, which is where she used to live

I want to play it as vanilla as possible but i assume there's bugs, glitches and shit in the game. What are some mods that fix only those and add nothing else?

Unofficial Patch, bouncing natural breasts, type 3 body/armor/clothing.

>>381638585
>>381638308

>>381624441
>anymore

they never did.

Todd please.

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I expected almost nothing from this game and now that I finished it this week all I want to do is play NV again. All I can say that was good was the crafting and upgrading system for weapons and armor and there was a surprising lack of bugs for a Bethesda game.

The minecraft meme was pointless. Voice protag isn't inherently bad but it's worse than the old system. The setting was boring as shit. No more skills and replacing everything was perks was an absolute kind of disgust. Weapon and armor repairing was cool but it's gone.

I'll rate it an obsidian sequel will fix it/10.

>>381638585
>>381638652
YUP or UP+ or both?

>>381629875
I like this guy's videos but he has over a hundred FO4 videos and a dozen NV videos. The problem with Bethesda is that they don't understand that you should show instead of telling.

>>381639080
The odds of beth ever letting obsidian touch fallout again are slim to none.
Fallout is going to stay shit forever and even the modding community can't fix it.

>>381636141
please tell me that doesn't happen
I didn't think I could dislike Bethesda less.

>>381639115

both.

>>381622736
Go to bed Todd you're drunk

>>381622736
im so glad i didn't pay $60 for it if i would of i might be a little bitter

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>>381640164
dank, thanks for the help.

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>>381636668
I got a surprise boner from Nora when she did that after using psycho for the first time

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>>381622736
>i-it's a good game, j-just not a good fallout game!

When will people with shit taste learn?

>>381624051
>only 6 hours
I liked it at first too, then I put 72 hours into it and I feel like it was wasted time.
Far Harbor is the best part about FO4

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>>381632669
>At least the gunplay is good now

Too bad the guns look, feel, and act like total shit.

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>falling for /v/ memes at all

99% of the people here doesnt even play vidya.

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>>381622736

I never hated it.

I think it's flawed but not as flawed as many would say. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

I think a lot of people went in looking for things to hate.

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>>381641323
>we approached these designs from the point of view of a resourceful wastelander who knows nothing about guns
Must not have been a very hard mindset to get into.

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>>381635210
I don't mind long dialogue so long as it's funny, call it reddit tier humor but talking with the think tank in owb makes me laugh my balls off everytime.

>>381632508
>The story is pretty interesting until you find/discover the Institute
They dropped the ball at the get-go.

>>381641323

I made my own mod that completely changes the default attachments for the various guns.

The combat rifle and shotgun look like shit in their minimal default look that's usually posted, but change the attachments they can spawn with and they actually look decent. I also changed the combat rifle to use 5.56 and changed the assault rifles name to "Machine Gun" upped it's damage and changed its ammo to 308.

I also changed the pipe bolt action to hold only a single round and replaced all of the instances of the normal pipe pistol that I could find with it.

>>381641561
>a resourceful wastelander who knows nothing about guns
Its been 200 years. Wastelanders would have learned a lot by then and its not like the fuckers went tribal.

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>>381641757
That's nice, however the animations, textures, sounds of the guns are still fucking putrid and even if they were fixed Fallout 4 is still a boring shitty mess of a game. Dude, my normie hippie gamer chick friend got bored of the game after 12 hours after adoring FO3 and Skyrim, the fucking thing is a lost cause.

>>381641983

All I can say to that is I disagree, and after playing Fallout 3 then switching to 4 the gunplay is like night and day. I forgot how floaty everything in 3 was and how much auto aim there way.

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>>381642075
Does Fallout 4 have this beast? No? Okay, Fallout 4 is still 100% garbage, case closed.

>>381642175

And I never used that gun in NV so I don't care about that.

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>>381642281
>being too much of a casual to finish Bleed Me Dry

This is why you like 4, anon.

>>381642281
>i don't care about the best most satisfying shotgun in the game

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West Coast
>2161
>weapons and ammo are being manufactured
>cities are already reclaimed
>Radiation is only a concern on certain specific areas

>2242
>New California Republic has begun reclaiming the west


>2281
>already reclaimed much of the west coast, reestablishing old world values
>Caesar's Legion reclaimed much of the midwest, large scale conflicts now a thing in the wasteland
>Midwest BoS probably doing good shit dunno

East Coast
>2286
>Boston is still a lawless hellhole where people make weapons out of lead pipes and recycled wood
>every drop of water is irradiated unless purified

File: ammunitionplantmakingshotgunshells.jpg (131KB, 700x394px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 700x394px

>>381642464
>people make weapons out of lead pipes and recycled wood

Leave it to pete to make a dlc that fixes something that should have been in the base game.

>>381642630
it's not really a fix though. In the game universe you're the only one that can build this type of shit. Everyone else is still just using scavenged stuff.

>>381642391

I have over 500 hours in NV. I've competed every quest in the game on multiple playthroughs. I get the gun and I don't use it. Hell I rarely ever use shotguns outside of the beginning of the game. By high levels I usually upgrade to energy weapons and I'm always high level by the time I get around to finishing that quest.

>>381642464
But wasn't the east coast nuked a lot harder compared to the west?. also isn't the reason why there isn't really a unified government is due to the institute.

>>381642692
Eh I kinda get a kick of having the monopoly on creating guns/ammo/food, actually makes the minutemen a faction to be reckoned with.

>>381642464

According to the history of Boston things were getting better in the past, but rampant super mutants from the Institute and the failure to establish a unified government caused things to go back downhill.

Both DC and Boston show what the East coast might have looked like if the mutants there continued unchecked.

>>381642464
And then there's the institute which is centuries ahead of everything else in the wasteland. Bravo Bethesda.

I just recently replaying this game and it still sucks. It doesn't even feel like a RPG game, it feels more like an action game.

>>381642921
West coast also had house shooting down a ton of nukes with his laser defense system preserving much of the mojave.

>>381643202
>let's make robots with human-like intelligence and emotion do slave work
>even though Mr. Handy units still exist and are readily available
>if the synths escape, let's send robots with no emotion after them
>why didn't we just program our slave bots without emotion
>idklol
For a group of geniuses, the Institute is pretty fuckin dumb.

>>381643202

Because I believe that it and the Enclave are the only two factions to continue scientific development from where it it was during the great war. I think the Institute shows what the US would look like by 2280 had the war never happened.

Well I guess there's also Big MT, but that doesn't really count considering there's no one there who hasn't gone completely insane.

I mean the Brotherhood is busy trying to preserve as much pre-war tech as they can, the NCR is struggling just to get back to the pre-war level thanks to the fact that the BoS are asshole who don't share and the Legion is actively rejecting pre-war tech.

>>381641392

What is there to like exactly? Is this your first bethesda open world game? its the same shit as literally all of their games that they've put out in the past 10 years. Same engine too. Its really just amazing how people lap this shit up.

was thinking about getting it since it was on sale

are the lewd mods up to snuff yet?

>>381643553

The strength of the synth is their reasoning capabilities, able to reason. Something that robots are unable to.

Unfortunately they copied the abilities of the human brain too well. Keep in mind that Gen 3 synths are still considered to be prototypes and likely will be until they fix that whole "free will" bug. Why the Institute relies almost exclusively on the more robot like gen 2s for all of their military and security needs.

>>381643664
there's practically no lewd shit, everyone stuck with Skyrim

>>381623092
Anon, the story is shit.

>>381643664

There's a few. Your basic rape and whatnot.

Nothing approaching what Skyrim had of course.

>>381635123
>decent world design
>Fallout 4
hearty kek

>>381644325

What's wrong with it?

>>381641323

>open prewar safe
>PIPEGUN

It also annoyed me that rifles would default to having no stock and short barrels. The first time I looted a sniper rifle it had no stock and a short barrel, and I was intrigued. Then I tried adding a stock and barrel to the gun, and notcied all this shit was level / perk gated. Then I started to notice every enemy I killed had fucked up sniper rifles, and caught on to the fact that this shit was gated not only by level and perks, but also the same way on fucking levled lists, and at that moment, I knew this game was fucked.

>>381645005

The Guns and Bullets magazine "The street guns of Boston" indicates that pipe guns were actually pre-war, used by criminals.

Didn't the US tighten up its gun control laws pre-war?

>>381645236

I'm not savvy to much of F4's dumb lore. I didn't even bother. And neither did they it seems. They totally fucked up the lore on a few things.

>>381645358

Only example I can think of is pre-war jet, which is pretty much a retcon at this point.