Is Kojima just trying to show how many famous actors he can get

>>381381984
Yes.

/thread

>>381382035
/threading your own post
Fulton yourself my man.

>>381381984
I can't wait to be so utterly disappointed with this game when we finally see what it is.
At least we're free of Caramel's nonsense, so we can enjoy that without his crippling autism.

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>>381382129
how do you know I'm not caramel, or you?

>>381381984
only good actors

>>381382129
caramel just posted, nigga

>>381382128
you are a complete no hoper,i know you live a sad life and feel the need to make yourself feel better by doing some really poor amatuer trolling on a video game, but how about you just grow up, its not going to always be bad kid, you'll grow up and realise you shouldn't of acted like a peasant. you only recieve what you put out in the world. lose the toxicity, be happy.

>>381382276
>only actors kojima wants to get fucked by
ftfy

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With the amount that I liked MGSV's gameplay, I still have faith Koji can make this game fun. Just wish they showed something on E3.
>>381382362
>IIII'M NUCLEAR: the post

>>381382129
Why would you be disappointed? What are you even expecting?

I'm only expecting a competent TPS with a little weird shit. Having some decent actors like Mads who may do some cheesy shit in a couple of cutscenes is just a bonus.

>>381382382
>only actors kojima wants to fuck
ftfy

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>>381382382
>>381382625
>not wanting to fuck and get fucked by koji's actors

>>381382625
Kojima likes to get his ass rammed.

>>381382129
>At least we're free of Caramel's nonsense

Nah like any autist he could only last a couokle days before posting the exact same bullshit with dates adjusted.

>>381382780
The new date is the 30th anniversary.

>>381382738
MEMORIES

>>381381984

Inb4 the main character was just a nazi medic all along.

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Guys why the fuck would Kojima include a shot of a younger Big Boss that looks more like Solid Snake? This scene never happened. Look at the time of day, the lack of facial hair, this clearly isn't Big Boss or Operation Snake Eater as we know it was some sort of VR simulation. No reason for this footage to exist otherwise! It's not even the same engine MGS3 ran on and Kojima was obviously foreshadowing the creation and use of the Fox engine in his magnum opus of the series. It's fucking obvious Kojima has been planning this ruse for over a decade and you stupid children have been ignoring the evidence in front of you all these years.

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>>381382846
>venom and her will never be happy together

No, he does it because he likes to look at them himself

>>381383006
They were never going to be. Venom never gave a shit about Quiet at all.

>>381383216
lol hope your not the same person still posting this. some real dedication/autism/

>>381381984
i dont know but hes pissing me off. i dont want faggot ass celebrities in my games and i dont want gaming to become hollywood. kojima can fuck off.

You can which tv shows Kojima likes by looking at his casting choices.

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>>381381984
>Kojima pisses budget of MGSV everywhere with famous actors and other big names to the point that publisher has to shut everything down mid-development and the game ends up being an unfinished mess
>Kojima pisses budget of Death Stranding everywhere with famous actors and other big names to the point that ______________________________________________________________________________________
Fill in the blank.

>>381382738
BIRDS

>>381383521
Or you could just look at his twitter or any of his interviews.

>>381383216
Can some anon explain to me how this concept started?

BREAKING NEWS: KOJIMA IS A WESTABOO STARFUCKER WHO WISHES HE WAS MAKING MOVIES INSTEAD OF VIDEO GAMES BUT CAN'T BECUASE HE ISN'T A GOOD ENOUGH WRITER.

IN OTHER NEWS WATER IS WET AND THE SUN IS BRIGHT. TUNE IN AT 11 TO FIND OUT WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR YOUR WEEKEND

>>381383857
one autist memester's head canon gone wild.

>>381383748
I don't use twitter, but i've seen him posting hannibal related stuff here before.

>>381383857
It's obvious from Venoms poor treatment of Quiet. Keeping her locked in a cell, having her tortured, not giving a shit when she goes off to die. He didn't give a fuck about her just saw here as a freakish tool when all she wanted was to be accepted.

>>381383891
Is this part of the ruse

He's poking sony with a stick to see what happens.

>>381383923
Would it be to much to see screencaps if anyone has them, or an archive?

>>381383975
That sounded weird, let me clarify:
I've seen people posting his twitter posts here on /v/.
I need to start read what i write before i click submit.

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>>381384032
Well I mean, he cared enough to let her live no?

>>381384080
I don't have any, but that's all he really says.
"venom never cared about Quiet"

used to make threads about it all the time.

>>381384156
please, laugh at me

>>381384187
He cared enough to fight a bunch of tanks for her.

>>381382846
BROKEN

>>381381984
Literally who is that?

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>>381382969
you're not actually helping your case very much.
kojima held off for a long time on confirming that it wasn't solid snake you'd play as in mgs3. the earliest footage used pliskin's model, but even as they had the resources, they tried to control information.

and the mgs4 trailer pretended it was going "FPS"
and obviously V and PT had all kinds of fake studio fuckery going on

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>>381384469
>the earliest footage used pliskin's model

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Because he is a westaboo.

>>381384465
It's the guy from that shitty King Arthur movie that came out like 10 years ago

>>381384465
Some shitty eceleb, don't worry about it anon.

>>381384187
Only to use her as a tool and strip her of her humanity.

>>381384285
He just wanted his weapon back. When he realized she was gone he got over it in an instant and didn't give a fuck. Already thinking about how he will find another better Sniper one day that he will respect enough to treat as one of his own unit.

>>381384745
yeah he's a low tier memester who can't even pull in views with his shit streams.

>>381384285
Funny how Kaz did a complete 360 there & started to care about Quiet and the fact she lives

>>381384469
I don't think you actually know what "my case" is anon. I know full well how development works with Kojima, and that mistakes in continuity can be made. I was just poking fun at that faggot caramel desperately clinging to the idea that the heli crash never happened because of the out of place clip of Snake with blood on his face.

>>381384827
>Kazuhira "Pussy filler" Miller letting that sweet ass stay off base
not gonna happen

Venom never loved quiet lol

>>381384827
No he didn't...

>>381385070
Chances are this is Caramel though

>>381385159
Well that's one I haven't heard

>>381385314
He did tho… he even says something along the lines of 'Boss, you have to protect Quiet at all costs' or something like you have to make she lives

>>381385452
Kaz is a canon womanizer. he's known for his affairs and antics on base. Even Boss had to kick his ass for it.

>>381385385
No anon, I'm simply saying it's absurd to instill some deeper meaning on some footage that was a simple continuity error.

Beardless Boss in the MGS3 intro is the same as Bloody Boss in the Kaz flashback in V. Simple oversights that have no actual meaning. Just minor mistakes resulting from Kojimas practise of making trailer footage before he's fully planned a game or scene.

Kojima is a genius and a visionary.
Fuck you /v/ for being the usual contrarian shithole.

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The ruse is real.
Kojima has been fucking with us since MGS2.

https://youtu.be/cxMHjJi7l-w?t=51s
https://youtu.be/cxMHjJi7l-w?t=51s
https://youtu.be/cxMHjJi7l-w?t=51s
https://youtu.be/cxMHjJi7l-w?t=51s

5 = 2

>>381381984
>TPP was an unfinished mess with an awful story and boring open world
>Kojima dick riders blame Konami

What will happen if DS is a disappointment? Blame Sony for it?

>>381385568
No, when Code Talker spills the beans about the parasites she's carrying Kaz gets emotionally invested. He says the targets are Quiet and the Parasites she carries, that the Parasites are the last of Skullfaces legacy and it's their duty to erase it all. In the same breath he says they might have to kill her along with the Parasites. He gave zero fucks about her life.

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>>381386005

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>>381386005
>>381386179

5 = 2
and
6 = e

What is this trickery, Kojima?

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>>381383593
Something has always bugged me.

During interviews Kojima was always going on about how MGSV would do something so daring, so crazy, that no other game has done and will change the face of gaming.

What the fuck was it?

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>>381386274

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtM3PGyiQUc
>we'll never get this version of rising.

>>381386412
Causing phantom pains.

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>>381386005
>>381386179
>>381386274
>>381386417

>>381386570
The graphics look better, but the animations look too realistic and the gameplay doesn't look as fun as what we got.

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>>381386005
>>381386005
>>381386005
Why does he do this to us?

>>381386857
platinum's version is obviously fun in that platinum kind of way, but I love the physics based stuff and slow visceral feel of the original. collapsing buildings on dudes is so fun looking.

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>>381382738

>>381387112
that top text, kek.

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I cant be the only one who likes that hes bringing in good actors for mo capping and voice work.

I elevates the game to a higher level, especially the mo capping. Id much rather have this than just some random man doing the voice and motion capture.

>>381386417
What the fuck does this picture have to do with anything caramel you stupid fuck

>>381381984
He's a failed director. He always wanted to make movies but never got to, so he makes movie games.

>>381387190
Kojima strikes me as the kind of guy to tastefully whack it to porn he writes, stars in, records, and produces.

>>381381984
he damn sure isn't trying to show us gameplay.

>>381387509

More like he gets to party with movie stars.

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>>381386005
>>381386179
>>381386274
>>381386759
>>381386915
https://youtu.be/kvXpsvJ9ti0?t=4m32s

6 also = G

WTF does this mean, Kojima?

>>381386170
Yea at the beginning of the mission… then when you have to defend her he pretty much says that you have to make sure you protect her

>>381387341

Can't we just get something fucking gameplay in Kojima's VIDEO GAME?

>>381387112
Too much jap AV for you

>>381387509
In order to fail at something you need to attempt it. He knows he could never make a competent film so he takes his uncompressed ideas and makes games.

>>381387589
is there anything more embarassing to watch, when someone tries to appease his rabid fanbase?

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>>381386005
>>381386179
>>381386274
>>381386759
>>381386915
>>381387589
This 5 is hidden in the Peace Walker E3 trailer as well.

>>381387764
Nigger please both him and Ocelot are just spitting out standard mission objective lines during the fight, and it's Ocelot who does most of the talking. He's the only one who says things like "stay with Quiet". Kaz's only concern is extracting and wiping out the parasites and he has zero issue with killing Quiet in the process.

>>381388737
metal gear stranding revengeance

>>381388359
PW was originally going to be 5.

>>381382362
>being this mad that someone called you out on a blatant violation of common 4chan etiquette

Just don't do it again, friend.

>>381389145
>4chan etiquette

>there are people browsing 4chan who are not even as old as 4chan and yet use it as the precedent for social interaction not only on the internet but in real life

It's happening. This is how walking memespouts are created.

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>>381388959
That changed early on. Well before the time the trailer was released, but the hidden 5 and all the "V" equals "Peace" stuff stayed. And was also included in official MGSV

But, consider... if Kojima had a plan for "5" and only seems to have planned one more game (6=e?) perhaps something was going to need to happen in 5, whichever form it took.
>this is why transfarring was originally conceived
>the "something only video games can do" relates somehow to that, since they carried over the gz/tpp save file thing.

>>381389845
That makes sense, either that, or the stupid nuke game.
All in all, Fox Engine's ability to modify code without need of patch is frightening.

>>381390242
Say what?

>>381389845
>consider... if Kojima had a plan for "5" and only seems to have planned one more game (6=e?)

Every MGS since 2 was going to be his last, I doubt he had planned very far ahead by the time each game had gone gold.

>>381390327
http://mgsforums.com/single/?p=9853919&t=7793643

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>>381390428
>Every MGS since 2 was going to be his last

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>>381386005
>>381388359
>>381388959
MGS2 was going to be two games. (2 and III) 2 on a ship, and III on the three tallest buildings in New York. (Good thing they didn't go with that, or they'd have needed to cut WAY more than just Arsenal crashing)
This idea was also dropped early on, and they just separated the two games into Tanker and Plant.

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>>381388737
>>381390863
They also knew about the Raiden switch in 1999, and hinted at it with this lightning storm scene.

It seems to me he's a very narcissistic person
But he deserve it he's made some good fucking games

>>381390478
this is ridiculous
how can the game get updated without steam downloading assets

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>tfw its been five years since you first watched the ground zeroes trailer

THE RUSE IT'S STILL REAL?

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>kojima and vogt roberts talked about kojima's jodorowsky love
>jodo called his document for the dune project his "dune bible" and kojima copied him, calling it the "phantom pain bible"
>jodo travelled around collecting the best of the best in each field to collaborate with and called them his "spiritual warriors"
>kojima said years ago he was doing this
>mads is one

>>381389465

Who said anything about real life?

You don't put "/thread" at the end of your own post because it's gay. That's all.

>>381381984

>famous
>a bunch of nobodies that only hipster trash pretend to be in love with

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>>381393346
>nick refn is another

>>381393445
*wets boipucci*
Seriously, tho. Mads is getting bigger and bigger, and Norman got pretty famous because of the walking dead.

>>381393367
That's been internet forum etiquette long before 4chan ever existed you goof.

>>381393445
Mads got famous in Cassino Royale and now he is the face of Hannibal and have a nice list of movies as a protag and antag. Reedus just skyrocketed by playing the most important character in the worldwide acclaimed tv series and he also have a nice list of B movies that anyone would like.

>Tfw Kojima will kill Sony but wasting all of his budget on cryptic trailers and expensive actors because he's a wannabe film director
Feels good to be a Nintenbro.

>MGS4 it's shit because it has too many cutscenes.
>MGSV it's shit because it doens't has many cutscenes.

Maybe this time it has the right amount. He does better and more original cutscenes than everybody in the AAA industry, and the last time he did better gameplay that any AAA game (maybe with the exception of the souls series). I seriously don't fucking understand. He's one of the few persons who actually at least tries to do good games.

Go play some other AAA games like Fallout, Gears of War, Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, etc. Name it.

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>survive was part of the plan all along

>>381382129
Shame that that leak about all of the dead armies of the past returning for a final conflict was fake. Sounded interesting.

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>>381395935

>>381383593
Sony goes bankrupt as they continue their long history of fiscal irresponsibility

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>>381396136
yeah its a shame we're just getting mgs6
>normandy with cobra unit and birth of ocelot
>whatever crazy stuff is happening in antarctica
>future tech and wormhole/spacetime exploration

>>381386570
Ik that feel all too well

>>381383593
This isn't true at all. MGSV made its' entire budget back in its' first week of sales, and that budget included developing the FOX engine. Kojima was/is actually quite good at budgeting time and money.

>>381384032
He cared enough about her to take on eight million tanks to get her back, and when that is done takes a snake bite for her. Oh yeah almost forgot (YOU).

>>381384636
this is true. the tech demo was done entirely in mgs2's engine

>>381382362
This pasta is delicious friend.

>>381399885
>take on eight million tanks to get her back

Because she was a valuable weapon, nothing more. He didn't even see her as a human being. Notice how after all's said and done he shows ZERO emotion at her apparent death and self exile.

>takes a snake bite for her

She was being hysterical at the very sight of it and giving away Snakes position, of course he was going to do what he could to avoid being caught.

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>>381393346
Should I watch El Topo /v/?

Kojima said that MGS was basically just El Topo on the interview.

>>381399885
>He cared enough about her to take on eight million tanks to get her back, and when that is done takes a snake bite for her. Oh yeah almost forgot (YOU).

He goes out to rescue plenty of MSF/DD soldiers who get captured.

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>>381400890
Yeah i can see the similarities. each boss teaches the main character their philosophy as part of the ritual of violence before the battle. it's a really strange take on the western genre.

holy mountain and dance of reality are better tho. real real smiles and cries from them.

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>>381393346
>This man inspired MGS and is Kojima's idol.

Makes complete sense.

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So, was he on chlorpromazine for the period that the game takes place in? Why was he so sedate the whole time?

Who gives a fuck about Kojima? When does Del Toro get his shot?

>>381395291
>>MGSV it's shit because it doens't has many cutscenes.
>Maybe this time it has the right amount. He does better and more original cutscenes than everybody in the AAA industry,

They are few in number but the cutscenes in MGSV are fantastic.

>Gets thrown out of Konami because he's spending way too much money on his games
>Sony, a company that has even more money than Konami, picks him up and basically gives him all their money
>Kojima uses that money to mocap all these famous actors because "fuck it why not" and to make Konami jealous

I mean, wouldn't you do the same in his position?

Let's just hope the rumors of Emma Stone being in the game are true. I want a highly detailed 3D scanned nude model of Emma Stone plz.

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>>381401446
>sometimes he picks his nose and makes little sculptures with it before he flicks it away

he is a genius

>>381395935
I understand plenty of images, but this one eludes me.
Is it about the two struts looking similar?
Twin towers?

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>>381401939
>Gets thrown out of Konami because he's spending way too much money on his games

this meme is disgusting

>>381401467
Well yeah he literally permafried his brain doing drugs to build up his tolerance to sedatives/truth serums/etc.. He can stand there tanking headshots from any tranq you have and he barely feels the effects. He's essentially a vegetable compared to his old charismatic self. After some years he regains some personality, but he also gets even more crazy, dancing around shooting his finger guns while pretending to pretend to be pretending to be Liquid.

>>381402496
Is it not true though?

The guy is known to spend a shit ton on making his games. Hell, he spent over half a decade just making the Fox Engine, which cost a shit ton of money as well.

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>>381401467
now i'm just picturing that face and gesture as his only response to everything in TPP, along with kind of a mellow affirmative moan

>>381402496
It's not a meme, it's the only confirmed reason we have that Kojima and Konami were butting heads. Kojima didn't see any problem with delaying the game or going over budget or wasting money as long as the final product satisfied his vision. Konami got fed up with this shit. Next thing we know they part ways.

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>>381403027
>>381403069
>true
>confirmed

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>>381403027
>>381403069
Fox Engine development took less than 2 years.

I find it ridiculous using over budget/deadline being the excuse for the fire between Konami and Kojima, because those old men must've known or at least had employees that could project the profit of their game breaking even ever so soon after its release. Couple it with the long term plan of MGO/FOB, they couldn't possibly get upset at him for if he asked for more money/time.

The second ridiculous part is how quick that goddamn engine does the job. It has a map maker that cuts development time considerably enabling the map designer to make changes without bugging a programmer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCs0xxUS5as
The photoscanning is also considerably quick
>You may say it is waste of technology but this quality can be done in 2 hours after 3D scanning the real bento over FOX Engine

There's also the completely random scouting in Normandy back in 2014, and it connecting with Death Stranding. I really think things are not as simple they it seem at a surface glance.

>>381383518
> i dont want gaming to become hollywood.

Too l8 m8 no need to h8

>>381403521
remember that 2011 e3 video where they showed off the black kid in the jungle
simpler times, man...

>>381386412
Pretty sure it was suppose to be the whole nuclear disarmament event.

>>381382306
where

>>381387341
Retard

>>381401467
>>381402768
As funny as this sounds it's canonically true. He talks about building up a resistance to those kind of drugs in some dialogue unlocked after shooting him in the head a bunch of times.

>>381403225
It is true and it is confirmed by someone pretty integral to the series. I'd pull up some cited quotes for you but I'm not convinced that you're interested in actually learning anything judging by your memetastic-reddit-style of shitposting. Seems more likely that Kojima himself could confirm it and youd still respond with greentext and an image macro.

>>381403521
>Fox Engine development took less than 2 years

But a ton of $$$


>I find it ridiculous using over budget/deadline being the excuse for the fire between Konami and Kojima

Cool but it's still the only confirmed source of beef we have so far.

>they couldn't possibly get upset at him for if he asked for more money/time

They sure as fuck could, they're a publicly traded business. They have investors to appease, not just fans. Investors don't care about the game being the ultimate MGS experience they care about their stock prices going down when the promised cash cow game continues to take more time and money.

>how quick that goddamn engine does the job

Making a game is more than hammering out maps. Fox engine isn't even unique in that aspect, and it still cost the majority of an 80m budget to complete, all before having anything close to a finished game to show the higherups.

>completely random scouting in Normandy back in 2014
>connecting with Death Stranding

And MGS3, MGS in general, and countless other stories in media. Shit maybe that new COD game is connected to right?

Just stop with the senseless delusion. Because that';s what it is, senseless. If you took a step back and looked at the big picture you'd realize youve been conditioned to embrace apophenia not by Kojima himself but by the retards like Caramel who think everything is some cryptic mystery. Get a grip.

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>>381404135
>in 2011, kojima stated they'd been working on fox engine since they finished their work on mgs4

something is totally going on. they were able to make peace walker, rising(with PG) and PT while mgsv was in production. and all the cutscenes were shown in trailers way before the game was released.

>>381404703
>clinging to beef
>clinging to ruse
theres no difference anon. lighten up. here have some digoxin.

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>>381404703
>someone pretty integral to the series
>the higherups

>>381404974
>something is totally going on.
I thought the same thing but they probably had to fuck with the engine a lot just to make it work for last gen consoles

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>>381404703
>comes to a 4chan kojima thread for the qualityposting
of course its all going to be greentext and memes. it's a metaphor for kojima's work.

I didn't know who Mads was before I saw this trailer but he looks like a pretty cool guy, what are some movies he's in that I should watch?

>>381382035
/thread

>>381406063
The hunt/Jagten

>>381404974
>in 2011, kojima stated they'd been working on fox engine since they finished their work on mgs4
>something is totally going on

Probably Konami forcing Kojima to get the game running on PS3/360. It wasn't an easy task.

>theres no difference

There is. Please don't just regurgitate all of Caramels nonsensical delusions. The beef is not a ruse. Konami did not and will not fire their most valuable employee and tarnish their own reputation for years are part of a ruse that benefits literally nobody.

>have some digoxin

I'm not fresh out of a coma and I don't have any heart problems. I'd rather not die thanks.

>>381405186
>someone pretty integral to the series
>the higherups


I was talking about Rika Muranaka, the musical composer responsible for some of the games most iconic songs. Best is yet to come, Say goodbye to yesterday, Snake Eater, any of these ring a bell? She's the one who broke the news about Kojimas overspending on MGSV. She was being paid to create dozens of songs that never saw the light of day, and that was never the case for previous games. She was very candid about the fact that she wasn't cheap either,and how Kojima was a salary man whos pay wasn't affected by the games quality or release date, and Konami didn't like how he handled things as a result. Doesn't matter if you don't like it or understand it but it's the only confirmed reason we have for the conflict. Sure there was probably more to it than just time and money but that's all we have so far. And all we ever will have probably because regardless of idiots like Caramels thoughts Konami (or any business in grorious nippon) isn't going to make some official statement saying "fuck Kojima and here's exactly why".

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>>381406063

>>381406063
Valhalla rising for sure

>kojima spamming out high production movie games with renown figures of cinema contributing to his vision
>david cage fooled david bowie once to shit out a barely playable mess
kojima's pretty much living cage's dream right now

>>381406585
So the only thing left is to photoshop an image of David Cage to have the JUST haircut and tears streaming down his face.

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>>381406245
>Konami did not and will not fire their most valuable employee
That's what we've been trying to tell you.

>Namedropping someones trip constantly
Often times its the trip themselves...

>>381406817
that all depends on how robo-detective turns out. I dont expect good things cause all heavy rain did for me was make me very angry i played it. Im betting aliens or angels are going to present in the plot but will never be explained

>>381406585
>>381406817
>Cage had enthusiastic involvement from Bowie, who was involved in everything from music to story writing as well as appearing as a character

>Kojima can't get anything but c-listers from network television and forgettable movie roles despite virtually sucking off people like Bowie with countless hamfisted "homages"

>Cage already lived Kojimas dream and then made sure that Kojima would never live it himself by making a game so bad Bowie would never do another one.

>Cage already pioneered cinematic games in a literal sense while Kojima continues to awkwardly ride the line between game/movie experience

Cage has pre-preemptively cucked Kojima in almost every conceivable way. All he needs to do is literally fuck his wife.

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>>381407185
>Kojima complicit in Bowie's faking his death
Pretty sure that trumps the other examples.

https://youtu.be/y-JqH1M4Ya8

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>>381407406

>>381407080
>That's what we've been trying to tell you.

Stop being retarded.

>>381407080
>Often times its the trip themselves...

Totally, I'm caramel, me, the guy shooting down every dumb ass claim he's ever made. Not you, the guy corroborating his whackjob ideas, oh no. If one of us is the tripfag it's definitely more likely to be me!. Stop being retarded. There are other ways to get free bumps without driving serious discussion out of the thread.

Serious Discussion Time:
Is Kojima just trying to show how many famous actors he can get in his games now?

>>381407406
>implying Hideo didn't murder Bowie out of jealous envy while Kojima covered his tracks

>>381407610
Yes
/thread

>>381407185
>Cage already pioneered cinematic games in a literal sense
im pretty sure cage just copied a rom of dragon's lair as the framework for all his games

>>381407795
Exactly, just like Apple pioneered the touch screen on phones!

>>381381984
Yes. Now he can make his wet dream of becoming movie director come true.

>>381383593
At last I finally understand

>>381386412
Leaving it unfinished. It leaves you with a feeling of emptiness. Bold move desu

idk

>>381382128
You are exctracting him???