>Dude what if we made literally half the cast be inconsequential

>>381220094
I like FFXII

I agree with all of this except the gameplay.

FFXII's gameplay is pretty dang great.

9 was worse

>>381220094
>>Dude what if we had really shitty music
I beg to differ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVYHhcYWttY

Also gameplay is good

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>Dude what if OP is wrong on all points

>>381220094
Pleb filter.

>Dude what if we had really shitty music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mY4qYnul3I

>>381220459
Fuck no.

>>381220094
>Dude what if we made literally half the cast be inconsequential to the story
Do I even need to keep reading?

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>>381220094

>>381220330

The combat system is literally the FF11 system but with all the main mechanics removed.

>No teamwork (skillchains)
>No threat system, have to add in decoy to kinda patch it up
>Unable to manually position units without them moving on their own
>3 person party can't pull off a pseudo mmo class system
>Classes were barren in terms of skills and everyone just auto attacked anyway

Gambits were amazing but wasted on such a poor system.

I started playing it, again.
I stopped playing at the snowy mountains.
I want to finish it just so that I can say I did but it's just so boring..

>>381222551
>>381222476
>>381222454
>>381220570
>>381220094
Please double space your posts in the future, this is really difficult to read.

>>381220094
If you want PSX FF go back to those, even if they did a straight clone you'd complain it would still not be the same anyway.

I don't even really understand most points anyway, they're not even negatives to begin with.

>>381222848
Nice bait, I'm sure you'll catch some retards

>>381222848

Sorry that multiple people are pointing out major flaws in your favorite game. It's not AWFUL but it might as well be the worst in the mainline series, tons of poor decisions throughout development.

>>381222462
DELETE THIS!!!!!!!

>>381223095
>it might as well be the worst in the mainline series
Please.
It wasn't the worst when it came out and certainly isn't now considering what came after.

>>381223095
>worst in the mainline series
But XV exists.

>>381222330
I'll never understand why people dislike 12's soundtrack. Such a great Ivalice offering.

>>381220094
>shit music
Here's your (You)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7EHWtZPsCw

Literally all the Final Fantasy games are shit, I have no idea how anyone managed to play any of them

>>381222476
You mean, ATB + movement? Everything you've said just exemplifies how 12 was not like 11 in the combat department because it wasn't trying to be. A lot of morons bought into that bullshit because A) they never played 11 and B) ability to move mid-combat was apparently too much for their brain. It's such a non-issue.

XII is a good game, but not a good FF game.

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>>381220094
>mfw comparing "escape from airship prison" segments in XII and XIII

>>381223824
"The ability to walk in combat" had to be supplemented with one of the most extensive AI systems to date just to work. That's how your precious game is played. By relying on AI.

>>381223824

I played 8 years of 11 and can clearly say that 12 is the exact same system, it's not ATB, it's auto attack based. The issue is that they kept this auto attack based system and didn't put in the mechanics that made it fun. Again you have no weaponskills or skillchains and that's the biggest flaw, auto attacks aren't fun unless they build up to something.

Movement is another issue, if you have ANY gambits turned on then your units will shuffle around mid battle on their own. You can only control one unit at a time so the other 2-3 are constantly moving and circling around the enemy and many times into AOE attacks. You either have to accept it's going to happen or constantly hop from unit to unit moving them back into place, not fun.

Hell, they added a fast forward button because combat was that unfinished.

I like FF12. I will be buying the HD remaster in a few days. I will continue to enjoy it like the majority of people who have played this game, keep screeching in your corner

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>>381220627
I really liked how she wasn't just a "lovable naive princess" archetype the likes of Garnet or Yuna. Ashe displayed the arrogance of nobility and utterly consumed by revenge, but it's precisely tempering that sentiment and finding her way that made her character. Both applies to two characters above, but thing with Ashe is she starts from a bad place and has to actively improve herself.

>dat feel when Vaan becomes, in a sense, her role model on what not to do and backs her up emotionally

>>381224272
I still wish they actually finished it by adding all the obviously missing content.

>>381220094
I agree with most of those points.

Pick up the IZJS version and the homogeneous character play gets adjusted to the classes (with unique license boards) that you pick.

Fuck you Penelo is my thicc Breaker waifu.

>>381224272
But you can't choose between the original and new system in Zodiac Age, that's why of course no interest in the remaster, but don't even have a ps4 either though. I liked that can make your characters perform good in all things but also like when it's restricted like in 9.

>>381224289

>dat feel when Vaan becomes, in a sense, her role model on what not to do and backs her up emotionally

"Don't interrupt me, Vaan!" are literally her last words directed at him. And not said in a gentle way either. I remain skeptical.

>>381225127
Well, he was still a filthy street urchin and she a princess. Gotta keep the peasants in order.

Seriously, why was Vaan even there? What's his reason for tagging along and what's everyone else's reason for taking him along?

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>>381220094
Penelo's ass was the only thing I took away from FFXII.

The game was literally ruined by Japanese betas who couldn't "get into" a protagonist like Balthier or Basch.

>>381225341
Penelo and Vaan were designed purely to be self-insert characters.

>>381220094
Is the ass that fat ingame?

I don't understand why would it be an issue for some of the characters to be nobodies, and for there not to be some sort of DEEP SENTIMENTAL CONNECSHUN to the main villain.

Normal people exist. They are affected by things. Sure, Vaan and Penelo didn't deserve to be the main characters, but beyond that they are perfectly liable to have a say on a fucking overtaking of their country and inevitable death of everyone they know and love by their country being used as a warzone.
The emotional connection is to Larsa and Ashe. They are the ones related to royal drama, and they are the ones that drive the points of view of each country.

>hurdurr gods!
That is the fucking plot of Ivalice games.
Always.
From Tactics, to Vagrant Story. That's the SETTING FOR THE WORLD, why is this a shocking turn of events for you?

>>381220094
>Dude what if we made a JRPG

>>381225783
It's not that there are nobodies as characters, it's that Vaan utterly vanishes as a character couple of hours in once his angst over brother's death is resolved. Penelo exists solely to get kidnapped and for ass shots seeing as her story was apparently cut.

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>>381225595
It's no phat but its perfectly shaped.

>>381220094
>Dude what if we made a complicated political plot and then ruined it by turning it into standard ancient god shenanigans halfway through
To be fair, this is what happened in FFT too. It's just a thing of all ivalice games where they have some really interesting concepts but then sweep that under the rug for "STOP THE BIGBAD GOD"

You forgot to mention the biggest point though

>Dude what if we made a game that was so slow, drawn out and repetitive in every aspect that for our re-release to improve the game we just added an emulator style speed up button

>>381226427
>FFT
fft is the best FF game.
>best writing
>best vilain
>best story
>best world
>best setting
>amazing ost
>amazing characters
>best gameplay
i could go on

>>381224289
yuna wasn't really naive, she was intentionally sheltered because she was raised to be a ritual sacrifice from a super young age, on top of being emotionally repressed because she lives in a combination of dark ages europe and feudal japan where the only source of enjoyment between cuthulu spacewhale was the most boring sport in the world.

Meanwhile asche was literally just princess leia from star wars, right down to you rescuing her from a flying fortress

>>381220570
>>381222330
FF12 had some great tracks but most of it felt like it was trying to be too Epic and Cinematic, without any real personality to it

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Fun fact: today is the 20th anniversary of FFT and the world of ivalice (since FFT is the 1st ivalice game)

>>381226075

Vaan is just there to be a self insert for nips, so it's not really surprising most of his applications are vanal cheerings of the other character's antics.
But Penelo and Larsa interact through the whole game, and she becomes relevant enough as a result. It's Penelo in the end that convinces Larsa to step up for his shit and shank his cunt brother.

>>381226636
FFT is only good for the first half. when it goes from being a super dry political story where everyone is shades of grey to RAMZA YOU HAVE TO COLLECT THE MCGUFFINS AND STOP JESUS, WHO'S ACTUALLY AN EVIL DEMON the story is really bad, and the gameplay basically pulls a sick joke on the players expense because you spend half the game upgrading ramza + generic units into being super awesome, but then the game just vomits plot important characters who are infinitely stronger unless you use specific minmax builds with the filler characters to break the game. In order to have any actual fun with the gameplay you need to actively not use any of this stuff because the game is so broken

>>381226748

The OST as a whole felt very messy, you didn't have a lot of simple yet strong songs and most of them just gave off a jumbled feeling.

What was the most painful was how they used the music in the game, many times having fast paced battle music as the normal BGM in very comfy looking zones and it completely ruined the mood.

>>381220094
>extremely large ass

Anon... we need to have a sit down.

>>381225341
FF XII's structure is based on Star Wars.
Vaan and Penelo are R2D2 and C3PO.
It's not rocket science.

>>381220094
Agreed. It felt like the MC (I can't even remember his name, Van or something?) was the least bit relevant to the game. Balthier and his forced romance with Ashley was on the screen 90% of the time.

>>381227046
>FFT is only good for the first half. when it goes from being a super dry political story where everyone is shades of grey to RAMZA YOU HAVE TO COLLECT THE MCGUFFINS AND STOP JESUS, WHO'S ACTUALLY AN EVIL DEMON the story is really bad,
Maybe if you are a real retard.
FFT's story is a fantastic story of honour, class war, conspiracy, betrayal.. It strikes a perfect balance between the traditional whimsy of the Final Fantasy series with a more serious, and ultimately rather dark, story. Framed from the perspective of a historian looking back on events in the murky past, the game's presentation of its world is relatively reserved: it presents the player with a sweeping look at people, politics, and events without itself getting too caught up in any of its own characters' emotions and causes.

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Literally one of the best Final Fantasy characters.
And I am not even a trap fag.
Boy's literally badass and interesting at the same time.

>Dose Hi-potions and rapier fightan

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>>381227442
It's inspired by Star wars just like Star wars inspired itself from The Hidden fortress.

>>381220094
all of this is invalidated by the well-known fact that the guy who left the project had a completely different vision and once he left they changed everything, added Vaan/Penelo as the audience surrogates, and made Basch, the actual originally intended MC, to take a backseat.

among other changes.

you have to understand that FFXII was a total clusterfuck for Square internally. It caused them to re-evaluate the way they developed games and there was plenty of restructuring due to its tormentedly long dev cycle and numerous delays.

the game coming out as good as it did is quite frankly a fucking miracle, probably the last good mainline FF square were capable of making before they went full graphics and sparkles

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>>381228180
FF12 was also clearly a more ambitious game than FF10. Sure, not everything it did was stellar or was just left plain unfinished, but it got saddled with the ungrateful role of trying to modernize Final Fantasy.

Why is Balthier so pretty?

>>381226223
So I guess she was considered a "dancer" for some reason, but isn't Penelo literally dressed like an FFT Monk?

>>381220094
>>Dude what if we made a character who's literally just a random girl off the street with no important qualities outside of an extremely large ass
I'm still waiting for you to tell me who this is supposed to be.

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>>381228893
I still think they should've kept Reks in as the MC. He ticks all the demographic boxes as Vaan AND actually has ties to the story.

>>381228180
>>381228467
That's all great, but in the end, it's still worse than the pre-12 FFs (never played 11) other than 2 and maybe 3.

>>381229207
If you think FFXII is worse than FFVIII you are just outing yourself as a tryhard shitposter.

>>381229046
That would have made too much sense anon

>>381225341
So Ashe can grow as a person by seeing someone else that can let go of the person they lost. There's a reason they added all those scenes of her staring at him and it wasn't for shipping purposes.

>>381227432
A sit down on your face?

>>381220094
I want Penelo to suffocate me with her huge butt!

>>381229207
>maybe 3

3 is better than 1 in every conceivable way.

>>381220094
B-b-but Balthier is the leading man

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>>381226636
Whenever there's threads about your favorite FF, I always try not to list FFT because it almost feels like cheating. How can other FFs even compete?

>>381220094
penelo and vaan were put front and center due to corporate meddling. After replaying the game recently, Basch also takes a back seat to fran, balthier, and ashe.
Basch's only storyline is that he is gonna protect ashe.

>>381230445
I only played 3DS, so maybe the original is better.

>>381229395
FF8 set out for what it was trying to do with the story, with the only real issues being jank 90's translation. FF12 is so obviously a victim of re-writes that at one point gabranth goes IT WAS ME WHO FRAMED BASCH AND KILLED THE KING as though everyone doesn't already know that from hours and hours earlier, and it's full of those cuts to the imperial royal family that don't really matter or do anything.

FF8 has a world that's internally consistent with the magic even if it's extremely stupid. FF12 is a world where basch can blow up a tank by shooting negative energy kamehameha lasers in the opening but can somehow let himself get captured and put in jail for years instead of using that to escape.

FF8 looks amazing compared to the previous games in the series, FF12 is basically just FF11 with slightly higher quality character models.

FF8 has a fun card minigame that's so well tied into the gameplay in terms of rewards that it's the number one way to completely break the game. FF12's only diversion from the extremely boring combat and world navigation is hunts, which is the exact same fucking thing except the enemy is colored differently and has way bigger numbers.

FF8 is a very flawed game but it runs laps around FF12, which had literally thee times as much money and dev time put behind it and almost a decade of experience making games separating them

>>381220094
Dude who are you quoting?

>>381230639
remake and original, either one is still better than any version of FF1. More varied content, better designed dungeons, more interesting job selection, more expansive world map, more involved story and characters, inventory system that isn't retarded, the list goes on and on.

>>381225341

Vaan's entire purpose was to help Ashe grow as a character. Someone post the damn screencap that explains this.

>>381230872
His autistic headcanon

XII > V > VI > VII > IX > IV > III > I > VIII > II > XV > XIII
Prove me wrong.

>>381230367
no a sit down on yours

>>381225783
>Vagrant Story.
Vagrant Story has no gods or demons meddling at the last moment like 90% of Matsuno's games though, even the last boss is a human corrupted by the "darkness", but there's zero gods involved.

>People still think that Vaan and Penelo were added at the last minute

The autobattle was my only gripe with the game, desu.
I must admit despite the whole "IT PLAYS ITSELF" deal, there is still some degree of satisfaction to be gotten by watching all your preparations pay off as your party kills enemies without you having to touch a thing, but the system overstays its welcome when fighting bosses. The dramatic music and introduction feels like a waste when the "battle" amounts to watching your characters ram into the boss for about 5 minutes, while you occasionally pull up a menu to heal, it's very anticlimatic.

>>381232221
Worst taste I've ever seen.

>>381233195
No they were added halfway through. Doesn't make it good nonetheless. The Vagrant Story dude himself said in an interview that they were forced to make compromises with bishie boyo because it'd sell more to their teenage girl audience as the ivalice setting was too refined for children to consume.
Fuck off trying to do damage control.

>>381228827
Basch is prettier

>>381234410
>I must admit despite the whole "IT PLAYS ITSELF" deal, there is still some degree of satisfaction to be gotten by watching all your preparations pay off
I find that has a quality to it. Managing a priorities list and see itself play out in a successful loop. The issue isn't with the core of the idea, the issue is with the poor balancing and depth around it, like every FF game's combat that's mediocrely executed due to those reasons.

I just wish someone stepped up and made an actually good version of that combat.

>>381228867
Wasn't her dream to become a dancer? And she becomes one in the sequel?

>>381220094
7 > 8 > 5 > 6 > fresh turd > other FFs

>>381225783
>I don't understand why would it be an issue for some of the characters to be nobodies, and for there not to be some sort of DEEP SENTIMENTAL CONNECSHUN to the main villain.
>Normal people exist. They are affected by things.
When you get into this shit logic you can have a story about a literal npc and all he does is give directions for 40 hours of the progression.
And it'd be excusable with the exact same reasoning.


So no, it's a story specifically crafted to be experienced by you through those vessels, the vessels must be interesting to maximize the experience you get out of it. Otherwise anything anyone ever writes is perfect because "dude in real life there are boring people who can't write lmao it's so realistic and deep!"

No.

>>381220094
>No good Penelo porn

Why must I suffer so?

>>381226636
This.

FFT is objectively the best FF title out there.

>>381220094
>No important qualities except an extremely large ass

But anon, there's an important quality right there

>>381223716
That's actually really shit music, it's generic and unmemorable.

>>381226637

>Some similaritirs that are more tropes than anything
>She's Leia xD

>>381229046
>combine Basch and Vaan to hit a sweet spot that appeals to both demographics

That's a good idea.

You're fired.

>>381220094
What was interesting about Reck's back story?
Also music was fine, but having those rival ba'gannons that hated Balthier just give up during the mines is fucking stupid

>>381236109
There are a couple of really good doujin.
And a lot of Penelo x Vieras lewds commissioned by an autist with too much cash a while ago.

>>381237786
I wondered why there were so many.

>>381220094
Penelo made me realize I'd be willing to eat ass.

FFXII's plot and characters make a lot more sense when you realize Basch was originally supposed to be and de facto is the main character of XII. Vaan is an eye-candy character, as is Penelo, for people who wanted/expected more conventional FF protags.

So we're all in agreement that Penelo's ass is top-tier?
Garnet has nothing on it.

>>381220094
Every single thing after X was shit. And X wasn't even that good to begin with.

Did Larsa get a piece of that or not?