Why can't Sega make a good 3D Sonic game? Is it just impossible

precise platforming + very fast speed don't mid

so either they make platforming a fringe thing, introduce 2D sections that play worse than the Genesis games, or try and slow down Sonic, all possibilities just piss people off

Some type of games simply do not translate well into 3D. Castlevania didn't have a smooth transitiion to 3D as well, and later they'd just copy whatever worked for staples of 3D action games such as DMC rather than to make the classic Castlevania work in 3D for example.

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>Adventure
>Adventure 2
>Heroes
>Generations
>Not good

>>380891532
mix**

>>380891132
No, it's possible, it would just take more effort than profit margins would allow for. If Sonic Adventure was five times as long and nothing but sonic stages it would be a classic.

>Why can't Sega make a good 3D Sonic game?

Sonic Team are incompetents, and SEGA seems to have basically replaced everyone except the people making bad decisions.

Can you explain why you think no 3D Sonic games are good?

I found several of them enjoyable and my friend who has played practically every sonic game says he completely lost interest in 2D years ago.

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>>380891532
It can be done, it's just too demanding for the devs, and also they are adamant on not making momentum based platforming anymore because japan kiddos are too dumb.

They're constantly trying to figure out something new instead of developing what works. Whenever they have something good going it's just gone in the next game, it's like they start from scratch each time.

>>380892297


Some are good, just not in the last 15 years

>>380891132
What this guy said >>380892137

The cost to make a full 3D Sonic game just isn't financially feasible, that's why they always have to cut corners (reusing levels, padding with some alternate gameplay styles, etc). Even for Sonic games which typically sell 3-5 million effortlessly.

Incidentally, this is also why the games have been lower budgt in recent years. We're never going to see a Sonic game with production values on the level of Unleashed again.

>>380891132
>sonic

>>380892427
The point is that unless you establish some sort of parameters to measure the games by the conversations can never establish whats 'good' or 'bad'.

>>380891132
It can and basically already has worked twice in 3D. The problem is Sonic Team themselves. Instead of confidently focusing on the game style in question, they try to mix it alongside other gameplay types and don't put enough time and testing into the game's systems. Most of these alternate styles are fine really but unnecessary, and due to their lack of focus and dev time or who knows what, the overall game comes out far less polished than it should be. And they ignore this simple pattern and do it again and again and again. This makes people think the concept or the execution is the problem when ultimately it was the handling alone.

>>380892586
You've already thought about this more than Sega.

>>380892586
Oh and there was one alternate gameplay style that worked great alongside the main game and was universally loved, yet Sonic Team refuse to bring it back.
The chao garden.

>>380891132
Half of Sonic Unleashed was pretty good

>>380891132
IMO Heroes, Colors, Generations, and Unleashed were all good, Adventure 1 hasn't aged well but is still decent and had the right ideas. Everything else is definitely bad. Sega experiments too much and lately they don't take risks by incorporating 2D in the games as well, and unfortunately sacrifices have to be made. Like >>380891532 said, Castlevania didn't translate well, and I love those games but the 64 games are pretty shit in comparison to the rest of the series. You can't seriously expect the stiff controls to work in 3D Castlevania unless it was extremely slow and methodical, but then how would you make your stages interesting? Sega still hasn't figured out the perfect blend for what makes a great 3D Sonic game that can take the speed of the series and the diverse branching paths of any of the 2D games, but Generations had it not forced 2D on 3D Sonic would've done wonders. Even playable characters would at least show they want to experiment but not risk the core gameplay, I'd kill to wreck the shit out of stages as Espio or Vector the whole game, for example. They don't have to be major to the plot.

>>380891563
Those games are all trash. You were just very young when you played them and nostalgia clouds your judgment.

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It really pisses me off because Jet Set Radio did a better job of translating the core elements of Sonic:
>Strong, momentum based physics that allows players to build up and maintain a high speed through skillful play.
>Designing each level with multiple ways to approach it.
>Combining these two to allow players to see a clear development on their skills through faster/more skillful completion of the levels on subsequent playthroughs.
Hell, they even handled a "boost" gameplay better than Sonic ever did.

Of course, it's not perfect though. The half-pipe collisions are fucked and the jumping physics aren't based on momentum when you launch.
If those were fixed then it would be 10/10.

When I replayed Sonic Adventure last week, I spent around 15 minutes in Mystic Ruins just spin-dashing up those steep stairs near Tails' Workshop and jumping off just before the top because I loved how high I could jump.

>>380894282
IKR, all of these 6 year olds getting all nostalgic over Sonic Generations is really annoying

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>>380891532
Get rid of precise platforming
Justmake it fucking fast, make huge maps, and make it so you just get the thrill of moving fast, toss in loops, keep the homing mechanic for enemies, come up with new mechanics made for speed and big space
The issue with 3d sonic is they fprce him into tiny spaces. They then fill it up with boring shit that's tedious. On top of that they make sonic move way too fast.

>>380894282
Not him, I played them later than when you likely assume, and they were good games. Plus, out of the 3D games, Heroes was the first one I played.

>>380894595
>get rid of platforming
in other words Sonic doesn't work in 3D, since Sonic always had plenty of platforming

>>380894765
adventure: 1/3 is actually good
adventure2: 1/3 is actually good
heroes:1/4 is actually good
Am I noticing a trend?

>>380894282
I play Adventure 2 every year.
Kill yourself, 2D nostalgiafucker.

>>380894595
How many Sonic games have you actually played? Platforming using speed, physics and momentum is a huge part of Sonic's identity as is earning that consistent speed through your own skill and confidence rather than just handing it to you. That was still a factor in Adventure games outside of the overused speed boosters, and would be in Boost games if Boost wasn't so easy to maintain.

>>380894595
maybe they should just give him a mid-air B-button move to do a sort of kick down-> slide, and give him the SA2 style homing attack that gives you some forward momentum when you use it without attacking an enemy.

>>380896102
Actually all (almost all for SA1) the alternate styles are good, they're just different to what people are there for, though they still have some similar facets in them. Heroes' teams are essentially just difficulty levels

>>380896761
He already had a move to bounce straight downwards from I think SA2 onwards, though you have to get it through the story.

>>380896605
Adventure games definitely toned down the platforming though

also the level design of older games had more routes and stuff

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>>380891132
Adventure style gameplay with more polish would be the perfect 3D Sonic gameplay. I like the boost gameplay though.

>>380896102
Nice meme, the only parts of Adventure that are objectively bad are Amy's stages.
Adventure 2 is all good.

>>380897079
sa1: not bad, but not good either
sa2: both the shooters and hunting stages were really tedious
heroes: the stages are recycled

>>380897352

I meant something like this, but move horizontal and being able to run immediately after this.
tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs5NkkPmWBU&t=1m47s

Bouncing in SAB2 slowed things down imo.

>>380897493
If we had to go for Adventure style gameplay, make it SA1, have Sonic and Tails do their thing and everyone else should be completely changed. Emerald hunting, le guns blazing, fishing, running away from a robot as slow as humanly possible, mech fights are not fast. Am erectile dysfunctional person would get an erection faster than any of that crap.

Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy are the only characters that should exist in the Sonic universe

>>380897493
Agreed. Maybe they should go for something between Spin Dash and Boost. Maybe just make the spin dash charge more quickly depending on your boost meter, so you can use it to keep your momentum going and do a quick spin dash, to make up for mistakes, turn on a dime, etc.

>>380892404
they could just stick to 2d graphics drawed by hand.like wonderboy the dragon's trap.it's gorgeous.
less resources, more appeal, more fun

>>380892404
BTW i prefeer classic sonic instead of the taller one

>>380898054
>No Eggman
>No Shadow
Fuck you

>>380898689
Eggman is fine, Shadow is cancer, Metal Sonic can stay too why not

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>>380898689
>Shadow

I will never understand this SA2 is good meme

everything after the island escape is godawful

>>380891132
I think the adventure games are a solid foundation for the 3D gameplay

They obviously need some tweaking but the physics based movement of those games are massively superior to boost shit imo.

>>380899156
Nostalgia

tried to play it recently and it's just fucking mediocre, the game is too overly automated and gets old quickly.

>>380898842
>>380898997
Shadow is the only good Sonic character.

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>>380898054
More like these six.
>>380898689
>Shadow when Metal Sonic exists

>>380898842
>>380898997
Shadow's story arc was great, fuck you trolls

>>380899598
I found the edgy teenager who makes Sonic OCs

>>380899807
>being a spergy meme caller
I never made Sonic OCs. Shadow is still better.

>>380899801
Shadow is a product of the late 90s and early 2000s. A really, really bad product, who's black and red, and uses guns, and drives motorcycles, and curses, and doesn't believe in friendship because friendship makes you weak. Doesn't matter how good the backstory is, that doesn't fix a shit character.

>>380900445
>he literally just watched the Shadow the Hedgehog opening on Youtube
Aside from you being mentally retarded, Shadow has the best design out of any character.

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>People now hate Colors and Generations
What happened?

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>>380900692
>Best design
>It's literally the first official Sonic OC

And let's not even talk about the concept art

>>380901353
>It's literally the first official Sonic OC
That makes no sense at all. Stop struggling to find a point.

>And let's not even talk about the concept art
Exactly. The concept art for Shadow looked terrible. Good thing he came out as the one on the far right, which is the best design in the series.

I'd like it if there was a classic sonic game with 4 player co-op where you can choose one of the main 4 which each have slightly different traits that don't radically change the gameplay à la Super Mario Brothers 2 and 3D World.
Sonic - Basically your Mario, goes fast but other than that is pretty average
Tails - can hover
Amy - has a hammer to smash enemies from a safe distance
Knuckles - Can climb walls

>>380900692
First of all, FUCK YOU.
Second, part of that reference about not believing friendship and such was actually a reference to his first appearance in Sonic Boom
https://youtu.be/jwDwXGlEK48?t=22v
Sorry for the cringe ending, but this was the first video I found
Third, he's cursed in several games before. Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Heroes, and I'm fairly certain Sonic 06, as far as I can remember.
Fourth.
>Aside from you being mentally retarded, Shadow has the best design out of any character.
The best design out of any Sonic character is Metal Sonic, but I'll humor you. How is Shadow's design NOT edgelord garbage.

Sonic Adventure 2 IMO has the best Sonic levels in 3D. There was speed but not too fast so Sonic still had tight controls and was responsive. There was platforming throughout the levels and it was also 60 FPS on consoles.

Boost Sonic has the exhilaration of pure speed at the cost of tight controls and platforming, essentially becoming a glorified QTE hallway racer with occasional 2D platforming segments.

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How about a Sonic that controls like this? Just make levels instead of an open world and ditch the guns and stealth. The parkour mechanics can help compensate for the less precise nature of 3d platforming.

>>380894549
>>380891563
Sorry but Sonic Generations is simply not a good game.
It was just way too fucking easy. It's like Sega never learned from their mistake in making Sonic CD

>>380901845
>How is Shadow's design NOT edgelord garbage.
I literally laughed out loud at how retarded this sounds and I imagined you saying it in real life.

Shadow's colors perfectly define him as the anti-hero, and not only that, but the colors along with his design as a whole compliment each other with perfect symmetry and harmony. There is still generous room left in his design which makes him the perfect alter ego for Sonic.

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>>380900692
>Characterization is inconsistent as fuck throughout the series, even in his own game where he goes from cocky rogue to maniacal killer to wishy washy emo fag between each level
>Joins the organization that killed Maria and drove Gerald to insanity right after the game where they were all trying to kill him
>Literally super sonic but different colors and shoes
>Design is near identical yet it has no bearing on his characterization despite his whole conception being a dark Sonic
>A role fulfilled far better by Metal Sonic who is superior to Shadow in every fucking aspect

Grow up fag, Shadow is only good as a gag in Sonic Boom.

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@380902526

You're trying way to hard pal.

What about those game boy games? Weren't those good?

Blaze is muh gurl.

>>380900445
I don't see how that makes for a shit character.

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>>380902753
>Characterization is inconsistent as fuck throughout the series, even in his own game where he goes from cocky rogue to maniacal killer to wishy washy emo fag between each level
The game itself never had cutscenes to compliment each path. His story arch was different, but his character stayed the same.

>Joins the organization that killed Maria and drove Gerald to insanity right after the game where they were all trying to kill him
This has nothing to do with anything.

>Literally super sonic but different colors and shoes
So you're blind and retarded? Okay.

>Design is near identical yet it has no bearing on his characterization despite his whole conception being a dark Sonic
Wrong >>380902526

>A role fulfilled far better by Metal Sonic who is superior to Shadow in every fucking aspect
Metal Sonic is a garbage no character that constantly does nothing but race Sonic, something that Shadow does far better in context.

Don't tell me to grow up when you haven't even done it yourself. Shadow is the best character in the series, deal with it.

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>>380899686
>>380898842
>>380901845
My metal Niggas. Glad He's making a comeback.

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>>380902753
I mean, i get that shadow has had sketchy shit go on with him but what is so better about Metal?
>Sonic but a robot and """""superior""""" speed
>always destroyed but comes back
>never beats sonic
>turns into a big ass dragon metal
>gets trumped
>doesnt always talk
>Burst matrix that, while is sleek as fuck, cant be controlled and is more damage than helpful

>>380903152
>@

>>380902526
>Shadow's colors perfectly define him as the anti-hero
Yeah, I can look at him and tell he's the bad guy, because he's spiky and black like darkness, and red like blood. They really broke the mold when going for his design, didn't they?
>but the colors along with his design as a whole compliment each other with perfect symmetry and harmony.
Red is not a compliment to black you fucking neanderthal, green is, and "perfect symmetry and harmony"? Gimme a goddamn break.

Now, I'm going to give some leeway to Shadow, as his design wasn't nearly as bad in the past as it is now with the cliche designs of antagonist, but to say he's the "best designed character" is just embarrassing.

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>>380891132
>3D Sonic
>Ever bad
Found the underage.

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>>380903852
>Not bogged down by excessive melodramatic backstory
>His changes in personality are actually explained in games, even if it was the mediocre Rivals games
>Derivative design and abilities make sense for his character
>Even then has plenty of unique skills
>Get beaten in games because it's satisfying as a player
>TURNS INTO A BIG ASS METAL DRAGON

I'll give you the inconsistent talking and constant destroying. I wish he would always had his Heroes voice and maybe had a good reason for being rebuilt besides he's just a good weapon.

Of course, if you want to bring up other media, I can go on for a couple more posts.

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>>380903989
What sort of drivel were you even trying to convey in the first two sentences?

>Red is not a compliment to black you fucking neanderthal, green is
>green is
>green
>is
Goes to show how much you know about anything. You know absolutely nothing. If there is any sort of green that compliments black, it's lime. You're thinking of some retarded zombie aesthetic that recently became popular. You're retarded. Red is probably one of the best colors to compliment black, along with white, and yellow. Which are Shadow's colors.

His design is in harmony. He's pleasing as a whole to look at. His design is in symmetry, he has pleasing proportions. He is the best designed character. If he is the "cliche" of antagonists, then he is the first to start that cliche.

>>380904813
oh yeah, if we talk about Metal in the comics and shit hes literally top dog. Shadow had the worst backstory in every media.
im just saying the hate for Shadow being shit like "lmao sonic edgy!!" and all this other junk is sorta stupid in retrospect since SEGA doesnt really care about lore game per game

>>380904998
Green is a compliment to red. You misread the sentence.

Also, yes, he is the cliche of an antagonist which is why his ass should've been redesigned a long time ago.

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>>380905381
>>380904813
>>380903852
>>380903760
Metal is fucking great

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>>380901353
I fucking hate all the post Dreamcast Sonic designs, they tried too hard to look hip.

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Is Super Sonic looking like Super Saiyan intentional or was it just a coincidence?

>>380906064
Intentional. It was a reference to DBZ in the same way the Death Egg was a reference to Star Wars.

>>380905657
Metal needs to go rogue again. For good, this time.

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>>380906934
And I mean that as in "I've had enough of this fat fuck's incompitence, I'm just going to go slaughter an entire village, just for you, Sonic-Babe ;)"

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THIS IS MY FINAL FORM, WHAT DO YOU THINK EGGMAN?

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>>380907379

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>>380907379
Meh.

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>>380907379
I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS

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Does anyone else prefer classic Sonic's design over the modern one?

To make the perfect 3D Sonic Game, you need to take a look back at some of the elements from Sonic Adventure 1. I'm not saying the entire game, nor am I suggesting the gimmick parts.

What I AM suggesting is use:
+The gameplay of Sonic,Tails(without races) and Knuckles(minus the emerald hunt)
+The Hubworlds & Chao Gardens (but make them closer to Unleashed with different activities to do)
+The Physics, they were a perfect mixture of 3D platforming and EXACTLY how 3D platforming should work in a Sonic game.

If you use these core aspects of a 3D sonic game, along with the good Level Design, you can never make a bad 3D Sonic game. I think this is something Sonic Team doesn't understand due tothe fanbase being so divided and asking for so many different things. In return, we get consistant downgrades for each game. The series should always have been divided into two categories, The 2D sidescrollers, and the 3D platformers, instead we hav subgenres and mixtures that really don't make sense. Sonic Mania is a good return to form, however unless we get something like a Sonic Adventure reboot, the 3D series will die.

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>>380907950
At least post a good classic design.

>>380901903
Sonic team is too incompetent for that

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>>380907950
Is CD classic? I think it's the perfect blend of cutesy yet rebellious 90's edge. I was so fucking stoked when they made a comic series with this design. Then super depressed when it was canceled before it was finished And sad because it was the artist's dream job.

>>380896102
God damn you're a fucking idiot. You're a hive minded piece of shit who can't formulate his own opinions so he's spouting tired memes. Kys

>>380907352
>Metal
>Having any right to complain about someone else's incompetence

>>380904553
>sonic 06

>>380909243
Sonic CD is absolutely Classic

>>380907950
Fuck you faggot, the Modern design is 10x better

>>380891132
There is Sonic Unleashed. Probably the only good 3D Sonic game since everything works as intended, its challenging, and theres a ton of replay value.

>>380911389
except only half the levels are good

>>380911508
yeah some of the act 3's are fucking ass

Because Sonic Team is incompetent and I'm not sure why SEGA insist on keeping them employed. 3D Sonic can work, but not as long as those fuckers are in charge.

>MUH SONIC UTOPIA!

Oh boy, yet another 3D Sonic physics tech demo without anything design wise to actually back it up. There have been dozens of these. I have no idea why you all splurge on the worst one just because they decided to polish it up with some original assets instead of borrowed ones.

>>380911508
You mean all of them

>adventure
>adventure 2
>heroes
>06
>story book games
>unleashed

These are the only 3D sonic games. Sonic unleashed is one of the greatest games ever made, and adventure and heroes is alright. The story book games have this problem where everything except the gameplay and music is good but if those were fixed, they would be pretty good too.

>>380891563
>Heroes
How the fuck do people think Heroes is good?
1 third of the game is watching your character run/grind
1 third is being stopped in your tracks to take out EGGMAN'S ROBOTS
1 third is doing horrendous platforming with a shitty camera.

>>380908786
You're on the mark with physics, but what really needs fixing are the controls. Going immediately in the exact direction you push like in a Platinum game is why we have the 'slippery controls' complaint. Part of physics is having the characters react accordingly.

Use Unleashed as a base and add a more manageable drift, wall running, and for god's sake lose the boost. Make the Spindash the damage dealing boost and add drawbacks instead of a meter.

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>>380912058
>sonic unleashed
>one of the greatest games ever made

>>380912058
Secret rings can be fixed with touch screen, pointer, or a really intricate analog stick control change.

Black Knight's 'stop-and-mash-attack-then-go' style of gameplay is totally fucked on a base level. If it played like Transformers Devastation where going fast was worked into fighting, then it could be fun, but Black Knight is clearly just gluing mechanic onto Secret Rings without knowing why.

Also >>380912621

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>>380912058
>The story book games have this problem where everything except the gameplay and music is good

Nigga you can shit on gameplay all day but don't you ever tell me that the OSTs don't kick you into high fucking gear.
https://youtu.be/pNB4Cy4mftI
https://youtu.be/b7FmmOCB2p4
https://youtu.be/OSU92unsQIM
https://youtu.be/PgWZc73XnpE
https://youtu.be/wku1NyKollI
https://youtu.be/ZS3wG_4SHJk

>>380912058
>Sonic Unleashed
>yet another Sonic game bogged down by a bunch of bullshit
>"greatest game ever made"
Fuck off, Unleashedfag

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Use this as a starting point but remove the collectathon part

>>380914314

>There's been a rom hack and tools developed to completely redo every part of the classic Sonic games
>But nothing has touched 3D Blast

>All this CWC shit
>Not even ironically
https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4

>>380914542
http://info.sonicretro.org/Super_Sonic_in_Sonic_3D

Sonic Generations is good though, but its only good if you explore the levels and the default path is for babies. They cant make a fast platformer with a big budget and make it too hard for babies to play.

>>380912058
>Sonic unleashed is one of the greatest games ever made

Unleashed is my favorite Sonic game but its def not the "greatest game ever made".

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>>380905583
>Green is a compliment to red
if you're saying what I think you're saying

>>380915503
I hope when you say "favorite Sonic game" you mean "favorite 3D Sonic game"

>>380914314
Oddly enough, I think this game would have been great if it wasn't Sonic. The levels are pretty decently explorable and the platforming is pretty tight, but the slippery speed totally kill it. I can't imagine how much worse >>380914927 makes it. Just replace Sonic with Alex Kidd or something, slow him the fuck down, and you're pretty much golden.

>>380915603
looks festive

>>380905583
>>380915603
Actually, green is a compliment to purple.

>>380891132
Just add a fucking sprint button, make it work like the gas button in a racing game
Suddenly Sonic can go fast without shitting himself at corners and move precisely in more slow sections

>>380916225
i want to make sonic drift sideways around corners

>>380915603
>It'll be like taking a candy cane from a baby, which is fine by me.

>>380909243
that was the comic done by the nipples the enchilada guy right? isnt he also doing work on the animated opening or whatever for mania?

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>>380891132
I always liked Sonic more for it's platforming rather than speed. I wish there were more worlds like World 2 from the first game.

That's why the Master System one is better.

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IF CHAOS IS COMING BACK I WANT MY DAMN GAMMA.

GAMMA PLS... COME BACK MAN

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>>380917952
Yepper, Tyson Hesse
>Made Boxer Hockey and Diesel
>Living his dream of doing Sonic art
>Collaborating with the Skullgirls artist to create an Artist capable of controlling every dick on the internet

>>380909691
>metal is incompitent
I'm sorry, talk to me when shadow goes and turns into a dragon and/or turns Neo, or becomes Mammoth Metal

>>380919236
shadow can warp time and space which is on the sliding scale of things probably better than turning into a dragon

>>380919335
*With a chaos emerald, just like everyone else
Don't give me that hero/dark meter shit either, you literally cannot fill either gauge before you collect the first chaos emerald.

>>380919620
is battle still canon

i thought his lust for human women gave him permanent chaos powers or some shit

>>380919680
He can do all that because hes a Chaos emerald the whole game. He only gives it to Emerl at the end of his story, which is also the last before the end of the game, where shadow doesn't fight. So yes, but it doesn't change anything.

>>380919236
Anon, is it really so impressive that he did all things when he always failed at accomplishing his objectives every single time?

>>380914314
This was a great game, one of my favourite 3D Sonic's next to Heroes and Unleashed.

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>>380919680
Like all black creatures, the lust for white women drives him to destructive ends.

>>380920125
i'll give shadow this, his human waifu was marginally less alienish than elise

>>380919951
You have to fight Shadow (and everyone else first) after he gives it to you. It's where that line about muhria comes from.

>>380891563
Of what you listed, only Generations is good. SA1 is borderline good, primarily marred by bugs and retarded gameplay like Big's levels. The other two are straight garbage.

>>380921669
The formula for Sonic in Adventure 1 is excellent though.
If only they spent more time fixing bugs than adding a clunky fishing minigame, it would be regarded a lot more highly.

>>380894521
>When I replayed Sonic Adventure last week, I spent around 15 minutes in Mystic Ruins just spin-dashing up those steep stairs near Tails' Workshop and jumping off just before the top because I loved how high I could jump.

my nigga

>>380913552
>>380912621

Butthurt niggers, its the truth

>>380924317
Nah. A game that wastes my time isn't a good game.

>>380891132
>Is it just impossible to transition Sonic into 3D and keep it good?

Basically.

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So why the fuck is there more footage of Classic Sonic and Donutsteel than there is of Modern Sonic for Sonic Farces? Modern Sonic gets one shitty 1 minute level filled with nothing interesting. Classic Sonic has a stage and a bossfight. Avatard even has an extended version of Park Avenue that takes an alternate route at the start and continues underground after the part where Modern Sonic runs into Shadow.

They haven't done anything interesting at all with Modern Sonic except nerf boos and give him the double jump back from Colors.

>>380924796
They hit their limit with Boostplay.

Sonic does not work in 3D. I've played all the games. It has yet to be above meh tier on the 3D front. Lately they have completely given up on incorporating clever platforming or challenging gameplay at all. The game mostly plays itself. Just boost away and occasionally jump. It's essentially temple run.
Yeah, it's fast, I'll give it that, but that was never the main draw of the genesis games anyway.

>>380891132
Don't talk shit about Sonic Adventure

>>380925337
Sonic Adventure is shit. It has aged absolutely abysmally.
Generations and all boost2win games are pretty lame and effortless but at least they are somewhat polished.

>>380891132
>Is it just impossible to transition Sonic into 3D and keep it good?

I am working myself on a original games based of sonic 3d blast and advance it. It not easy man.

But this is not the real issue with Sonic. It's the presentation that hold back to make a good 3d Sonic.

A Sonic game without loops is not a sonic game. And is not easy to represent this with a speed focused gameplay in 3 dimension. It's to fast for the camera and hard to control for players, that why sonic team have to automate a lot to look good for simple people.

>>380920094
His only time that was his own failiure was in Heros, He has no free will otherwise, so yes. those are other people's fuckups.

>>380921669
DONT YOU FUCKING DARE TALK SHIT ABOUT MY HEROS

>>380926153
It collected data on all the Extreme Gear racers in order to beat Sonic in a race. It couldn't beat Sonic in a fight or race so it tried to beat him in flying surfboards. It still failed.

>>380921669
Pretty much this, I don't get why nostalgiafags place SA2 over SA1.

I played them both side by side and SA2 is literally a downgraded version of SA1.

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Sega should include Chris Chan and Sonichu as easter eggs in one of his Sonic games

faggots

>>380892586
basically, this

It's not the surest bet (see: Shadow's stages in SA2 are noticeably lower quality than Sonic's due to being kind of a rush job), and there are definite issues (SA-style control is really, really twitchy), but a game that was all Sonic stages with SA2-style controls would be pretty damn ace.

Do alternate characters like in Advance, too.

>>380900445
>product of the late 90s/early 00s
yeah
>black and red
yeah
>uses guns
in like one game
>drives motorcycles
that's cool
>curses
in one game
>doesn't believe in friendship because it makes you weak
?
he's a definite loner, but I don't remember any actual dialogue like that from him, and his interactions in every main game that isn't Shadow the Hedgehog seem to be in direct contrast to that

most of the worst things about Shadow came from his one awful game that turned the guy who went around saying shit like "I'm the coolest!" into one who says shit like"Death to all who oppose me!
Admittedly, some of it started in Heroes because he couldn't remember shit.
At least Sonic 06's characterization of him is surprisingly okay, despite all the other issues.

and then we never see him in any particularly important role again

>>380901257
Colors was a solid game with all Sonic, all the time gameplay after years of other tacked on bullshit.
In hindsight, some of the acts are really awful filler, and pretty much none of the bosses are terribly great. It's solid, though. Generations is better.

Generations is too short, and the physics on Classic Sonic are really weird (there's stupid shit like not rolling when landing while holding down and the awful spindash charge rate where you can barely charge it so you don't even move and then it slams right up to "this might as well be boost" speeds, and then there's shit like the overuse of springs that lock your speed and direction). All of the extra challenge missions designed to make the game have more longevity are as bad as the filler stages in Colors.

>>380925035

Bullshit. They could've easily applied the parkour concept from LW to Boost, and by that I mean letting Sonic be able to boost along/up buildings and structures outside of scripted events.

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sonic was never a good series

adventure 1 was the last sonic game i liked. i didn't dig 2 at all.

>>380897079
>sa1
>Tails - Sonic but with awful tacked on object placement, it's okay
>Knuckles - almost okay
>Amy - ridiculously bad
>Gamma - kind of clunky, could have been better
>Big - all the fun of fishing, but looking for Froggy is basically no fun at all

>sa2
>Knuckles/Rouge is a pain due to the lowered radar range and the inexplicable one emerald at a time decision, also Rouge's stages are worse than Knuckles'
>Tails/Eggman is really, really, really clunky due to the awful jump and the fairly slow movement, and Tails has significantly worse stages than Eggman

>>380896761
>and give him the SA2 style homing attack that gives you some forward momentum when you use it without attacking an enemy
man, Sonic Team changing that has killed me more than missing a homing attack into the abyss has ever done

>>380924609
Every game wastes your time

None do it as beautifully and exotically as Sonic Unleashed, the last good Sonic game.

>>380928756
you're wrong

>>380926809
Nah. SA2 is more streamlined, but much better overall

>>380930529
The funniest part was he claimed people that prefer 2 are "nostalgiafags"
Like, what the fuck?

>>380891132
they did, it's called Unleashed

>>380929749
>Every game wastes your time
Not good games. Unleashed just likes to shove a bunch of tedious bullshit down your throat

>>380930595
PffffHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>380930613
Its called playing the game and getting engrossed into its world. Sonic Unleashed is one of the few masterpieces of last gen and your tears and classic faggotry doesn't change that. Sorry!

>>380902139
Sonic CD was the best sonic 2d game though
>a game has to be difficult to be good
cancer
>>380930648
>best story
>best gameplay
>best levels
>best characters
>best boss battles
>second-best soundtrack
it was, just accept that the werehog parts were too long and slow and weren't actually bad

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>>380891132
Say what you will about whether or not this game was good, but man the VIBE it gave off hasn't been matched since. Not even Sonic Team in all their shittiness has been able to replicate it.

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>>380891563

Having played all but Generation, I can safely say only Adventures 2 is slightly passable, the rest are terrible. Even Shadow the Hedgehog is better than most of the original 3D Sonic games.

>>380930872
it's responsible for rouge and i'm okay with it

>Make Sonic fast
>Automatic parkour when running around, such as automatic jumping of small gates and running across walls at a certain height
>Press jump while already in midair to descent vertically and stop all forward momentum

All I want. Having to jump those tiny little walls and get stopped because I couldn't just run across a wall and had to press a button to raise a small gate really annoy me. Larger puzzles are fine, but shit that stops you that a little hop that could just be automated don't deserve the extra presses. I'm not saying turn it cinematic, but just make it a little more user friendly.

Also have an unlockable or cheat code that lets you play the earliest dev builds of the early levels, with shitty controls and bugs out the ass.

>>380930752
>getting engrossed in the world is being forced to collect bullshit to advance
Nah. I'll play the good classic games that know how to make a game replayable and how to let the player choose how to play the game instead of a shitty modern Sonic game with a nice coat of paint.

>>380931964
Thankfully, I get to choose how to play also. You keep crashing into walls you can't see though, keep telling yourself its fun to appease the hivemind.

>>380932212
>You get to choose how you play also
No you don't, you delusional retard. Unleashed literally drags you through its own path the whole game. Now you're doing THIS stage. Now you're doing THIS stage. Did you get all the medals? Do it again. Now it's TORNADO TIME. Etc.

The classic games let you play how you want to. Especially CD. You can take it easy or not. You can blast through or find everything. The game doesn't make you find everything either. Could you imagine if you couldn't go past Green Hill until you got the emerald? You beat the game, Eggman gives you a giant middle finger, and you actually want to go back and find that shit. Why? Because the game makes you want to find that shit instead of forcing you to.

I know you're probably just baiting trying to be Unleashedfag, but it's irritating how people praise modern Sonic games, specifically Unleashed, when they fuck up so many things that the original game's did so well.

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It's possible

>>380932756
Everything you just said you can do in Sonic CD, you can do in Sonic Unleashed. There are tons of trials, side missions, secrets to find, things to collect, DLC to play, stats to increase, hubs to relax in, and challenging S ranks to acquire through good knowledge of the game. Replaying a level once or twice is preferable to me, than playing a garbage ass special stage that controls terribly.

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>>380932771

>>380932771
>>380933175
>that turn rate
ignoring mechanics such as enemies will make any game faster

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>>380933762
>that turn rate
what about it? and that enemy problem is easily solvable