Why do so many developers fall for the open-world meme, instead

Small, nonlinear worlds had their time and their time is over.

I never realized Bob-bomb Battlefield was so small. It seemed absolutely massive back in the day

>why do publishers give budgets to open world games?
they must sell
>why do open world games sell?
people must like them
>why do people like open world games?
they must find the open world fun

>>380721241
What if the non-linear area was just really really big

Why do people act like linear is a bad word or some shit? A good linear design is far superior to any open world out there. They're probably doing it because of the success of assassin's creed, GTA and Skyrim. It's now looked at as "the standard"

>>380721241
Dragon age inquisition did this well

>>380721413
Because of CoD(and others, mostly shooters) design where every level is a single corridor with slight dents and turns or a cinematic transition event to next slightly different corridor

>>380721291
t. ubisoft

>>380721329
That's a diorama of the level.

>>380721241
>>380721413
Its easier to design. Instead of making tons of one of a kind assets that fit perfectly together, they just have to make a bunch of interchangeable stuff they spread throughout the map, with a far smaller number of original material sprinkled throughout. Whenever you come across a unique thing in an open world, like a statue, or a one of a kind boss, it has a powerful effect, but in a linear game, this is the standard.
Its just easier for developers to build these insanely large worlds this way, its the deference between sculpting from clay and lego blocks.

>>380721449
There's a great deal of things wrong with that game but the areas are not one of them. Genuinely liked Emerald Graves as far as forest areas go.

>>380721413
>A good linear design is far superior to any open world out there.

Debatable. You can argue that linear is more crafted and has more care to it, but linearity in modern games is often associated with corridors and point a to point b gameplay. This hasn't disappeared by any stretch. Open worlds have their immediate downsides you can point out and bad examples, but it also feels more realistic and free, if you can make the world feel compelling that is.

>>380721681
>Implying A to B gameplay is bad
Super Mario Bros 3 is still the best game of all time and it's 100% linear (except for the world map)

>>380721606
I would argue that the Super Metroid games are all "open world", as is the original Zelda.

>>380721681
>but it also feels more realistic and free
Maybe I'm biased, but they usually just end up feeling pointlessly large and bland. I have yet to play one that has a compelling world. I also haven't played The Witcher 3 yet, which has people waiting in line to suck its dick. Any recommendations?

>>380721769
>best game of all time
It's not even the best 2D Mario game for the SNES of all time.

That would be World. Which had conparatively non-linear level and world design with hidden exits sprinked everywhere.

>>380721769
It can be good, it can also be overused and lazy in some genres. Platformers aren't generally open world so there is no real point of comparison for whether a better game could be made with this alternative.

>>380721413
>>380721413
There's nothing wrong with linear games and use of the word as a perjorative was one of the worst trends of the last generation. Most of my favourite games are 'linear' (it's wrong to lump together both on-rails restrictive, COD style campaigns on the one hand with good, straight games on the other.) it's just that when it comes to open, non-linear designs so many developers opt for, for instance, a single generic open world city instead of several smaller but more tightly designed and memorable areas. Mario courses are like an amusement park to play around in. Watch Dogs feels like using google maps.

>>380721963
>Platformers aren't generally open world
All Metroidvanias are open world platformers and I would say as a rule they're among the most beloved platformers that exist.

>>380721241
It's easier to create one very large map instead of several unique ones however Dark Souls is technically open world and that shit was cash

>>380722002
The problem with "open world" is when the developer goes for a realistic scale.

People trying to make games with a believable size, rather than packing elements closer together to keep the gameplay dense.

This is why a lot of the best "open world" games are ones set on small islands (Crysis, JC2, FC3, etc) because you have a believable reason to cram relevant shit close together instead of leaving gigantic mountains and forests and shit between towns Skyrim-style.

>>380721926
3 is better than World, World was too gimmicky.

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>>380721926
Mario 3
>SNES

>>380722291
I'll get shit on for saying this but I still think the first Dark Souls has one of the best open worlds ever

>>380721413
apples and oranges, anon.

>>380722397
You're not alone on that I also thought the same thing the setting of the atmosphere along with the level design is crazy I really wish they made DS3 open world like DS1.

>>380721851
I'd agree, but I think were all talking about a very specific kind of open world, one thats become insanely popular in the last decade or so You can sort of recognize it by its huge scale, low density of important characters or events, heavy use of fast travel, markers, etc. Its the difference between ALTTP and Breath of the Wild, using your Zelda example.

>>380721904

Keep in mind I was talking more comparatively, it feels more free and realistic in comparison to linear games in some ways and I would add a further caveat that this only applies to certain genres. Not every game and game genre is attempting to craft an immersive believable world so some obvious exceptions exist.

I'm always hesitant to put a list of games that I think are good in talks here like this because no matter what I list a least five assholes will just reply with "all shit" or something to the effect. List making and this site is a wasted effort, but I did enjoy the Witcher games. I think it's actually an interesting series for this discussion because the more linear second and the open world third were both extremely good games, I guess you can argue ones linearity/non might have improved the other or vice versa but maybe the reality is neither is a particularly good indicator on whether a game will be good or not by itself. As a player I prefer the 3rd as it fits the continuous role I'm building and the fact that I'm constantly in this world and can travel through it the way I like feels more compelling to me, but I can easily argue that for the story the 2nd felt much more fine tuned and well paced so the world felt more real and compelling in other ways.

>>380721241
>tfw this is exactly what MGSV needed

>>380722053
I consider them a separate genre as platforming is not the point of Metroidvanias, but I might just be pulling some semantic shit here.

>>380722498
Its world is the perfect size and blends the exploration of an open world with the level design of a linear game really well

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Linearity with some room for exploration > open world

Quick example while it's on my mind as of late - having four, five paths to explore in the very beginning of Dark Souls I, to later discover it's an end-game area or one that's blocked by a key item you need to find in a different location. Versus something later in the franchise like BB or DSIII, which give you multiple paths, most often rewarding you for exploration if you take the "wrong" route in the area.

I still think it varies by franchise and content - some games do it better than others, there's no ultimate way of making a game better by one of those two gameplay styles

How is the open world in Nier Automata? I just started the game. Saved at the bunker and haven't done anything else. It's pretty awesome but does the open world hurt the experience?

>>380721413
Why do people act like open world is a bad word or some shit? A good open world design is far superior to any linear game out there.

>>380723045
Because a generic recycled open world is the current trend among games, and has been for awhile. When I think of it, all I think of is bland, open areas, pointless collectibles and fetch quests. Just like other people look at linear games as FFXIII hallways

>>380723174
It is almost as if good games are good and bad games are bad

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I loved that little chime each time you arrive at the level and they show you where the star is.

>>380722731
>prepares to shoot self in foot over topic

I unironically don't really have a problem with MGSV's maps. I understand and agree with people who who wish it had a dozen or so separate maps like GZ (and kind of Super MGS 64). You could easily carve out most of the bases like Da Shago Kallai, Wakh Sind, Yakho Oboo, Power Plant, Afghan Base Camp, Lufwa valley etc into their own self-contained GZ style maps and they'd still work (which isn't exactly an argument in favour of the open world) unlike carving out 'random section of city block no.45' but when playing through I always felt like the maps existed so that various locations could be linked together in various combinations for the main ops (and their side objectives) rather than being some sort of Skyrim/Fallout style map to explore with quest-lines/NPCs and other things Metal Gear's never done. Kojima in a few interviews said it's not really an open world game (though you can see why they used that for marketing) but a 'free-sneaking/free-Infiltration' game.

>>380723757
something about these gritty screenshots of sunshine map overviews makes it so comfy to look at. I need to dig up the gamecube and play it again. I've kind of been holding out waiting for a remaster or virtual console release

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>>380723982
Do it and I will do the same.
I can't believe it's about 15 years now.

>>380723982
You can play it in 1080p on dolphin

There is nothing inherently wrong with open world. But when you see a marketing campaign that goes
>BIGGEST OPEN WORLD EVER, 50 GORILLION SQUARE MILES, BIG BIG BIG
you just know the game will be a pile of fucking nothing.

Lemme guess, Super Mario Odyssey is an open-world game and not a series of larger non-linear areas because you say so?

>>380724423
>>380724423
Nope, Odyssey isn't an open world game, it's a set of large non-linear maps. Was using 64 as an example in general, not to compare it with SMO (except to praise SMO's approach)

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When do we get a good remake of Mario 64?
I loved the DS version but the controls were pretty bad with the lack of an analogue stick.

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>>380724208

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This level really blew my mind as a kid.

i prefer gameplay to go like this
--[]==[]--[ ]----

hub worlds are my jam but lineair progression with open wide levels in between are my favorite

>>380726739
--[]==[]--[ ]----
I don't quite understand what that is supposed to mean.

>>380726560
It was a cool concept but I found the level itself to be the most annoying in the game.

>>380721413
The best is not necessarily open world but a large level with a lot of options for solutions. Deus Ex and on a broader scale GTA do this and that's what makes them fun and replayable.

>>380728172
how is GTA not open world?

>>380725923
I want to play beta Sunshine (and 64) so fucking badly, they look so interesting.

>>380728530
In the missions themselves a lot of the GTA missions, at least the ones I fondly remember have different ways to complete the stage.

There's one mission in Vice City where you have to kill an NPC at a Golf Course. I find myself failing in the mission as the NPC would get away in a golf cart. So how did I beat it, I took advantage of the NPC not spawning immediately and trashed all the Golf Carts in the level before spawning him. That way he fled on foot and was easy to kill.

There was an early buzzword that game critics used to say a several years ago called "emergent gameplay", the good parts of GTA encouraged player creativity to complete missions. I know there's walkthroughs for the old games that would list the ways you can complete a mission. That stuff was nice.

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>>380721241
Because a couple of years ago, you cunts cried that everything was too linear. Developers listened and created open world games, which are now finishing up and flooding the market.

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>>380722380
Dont know if this anon knew why he wrote SNes? But he isnt far from being right.

>>380721329
If you go an play mario 64 now, youd realize the levels are small and boring as shit, and they arent tailored for platforming, which is a shame cause the plarforming mechanics are so good

>>380721241
I love open world actually.
except for one thing.
travelling.
there's no fun walking/running/driving/riding for 5 minutes with nothing going on at all.

GTA V did it slightly better because when ur in a mission, you can have the characters having conversation,
though there's nothing happening at all when you're off mission,
which bring us back to the same fucking flaw again.

>>380721413
Dark Souls 3 did a linear world well

>>380721413
For Mario linear is better. For Zelda it's open world.

>>380721337
Linear games and non-linear small world games would sell to, if well done. People like them. They find them fun.

The problem is the AAA devs are uncreative incompetent fuck who know literally nothing about video games. They don't play games, they don't understand games or gamers, they don't even like them. They just make them like a baker who hates cake but he always bakes it.

>>380721241
>>380726560
Is there a full scan of this somewhere?

>>380721413
Because it IS a bad word, just not in every context

linear level design is boring and prohibits enjoyable replayability (unless you have autism I guess) but there's nothing inherently wrong with non-linear levels being strung together in a fixed order

>>380735267
>linear level design is boring and prohibits enjoyable replayability
I don't think it's possible to be any more wrong.

>>380721241
>>380726560

I love this kind of isometric square world bits. Post more, not necessarily from this book.

>>380732836
no you are wrong,

>>380735801
>>(unless you have autism)

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>yfw you realised "open" world is usually just a series of non-linear areas mashed together with some filler between

>>380722291
>leaving gigantic mountains and forests and shit between towns Skyrim-style.

Those are good because they give the impression of size and untamed wilderness. Things don't have to be literally 5 meters from each other.

>>380732836
They're specifically tailored for platforming, idiot.

Best example of this would be uncharted 4. Madagascar and the Islands are fucking superb level design, i couldnt believe my eyes when i got in the jeep and started driving around, several areas like those two would be perfect even for a game like MGS.

>>380732836
>"I was born after the year 2000": the post

>>380721329

The image isn't to scale

>>380721241
Because money and fuck you it's mine.