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FFXIV Stormblood Early Access

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Thread replies: 535
Thread images: 105

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Less than 30 minutes left before the servers go back up worldwide. Discuss the biggest MMO of 2017
>>
MMO's are bad
>>
IT'S UP

SEE Y'ALL LATER
>>
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DASH AND HIS BOGANS BETTER NOT DESTROY THE SERVER
>>
HOW MANY MORE MINUTES
>>
HOW MUCH LONGER
>>
60 TO 1

THE SWORD FACE THE GUN
>>
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MY MAIN IS DRAGOON AND MY DICK IS MY LANCE, IM HERE TO TELL YOU NORTH AMERICA WILL CRASH
>>
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https://my.mixtape.moe/qedslv.ogg
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DO I NEED TO RELAUNCH THE LAUNCHER WHEN IT'S TIME
>DO I NEED TO RELAUNCH THE LAUNCHER WHEN IT'S TIME
DO I NEED TO RELAUNCH THE LAUNCHER WHEN IT'S TIME
>DO I NEED TO RELAUNCH THE LAUNCHER WHEN IT'S TIME
>>
>>380715974
YES
>YES
YES
>YES
>>
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Reminder that your client will crash if you do not have some glorious nippon track playing nonstop while you level Samurai

I'm going to have this on fucking repeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d4pTCyP9uk
>>
>>380715974
POST BETTER
>POST BETTER
POST BETTER
>POST BETTER
>>
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Can we discuss mods banning xiv threads from /v/?
>>
>>380716046
That game had a baller soundtrack. Masterful choice.
>>
>>380715946
How the fuck does this man keep doing it?
>>
anyone wanna play dnd while we wait?
>>
>>380716368
>playing DnD for 2 minutes
>>
>>380716460
>not speedrunning DnD
>>
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>>380714596
ITS UP GHOGOGOGOGOGOG
>>
>>380716046
CON had better music than I remember.
>>
IT'S TIME
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And so it begins.
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For (You)
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H-He's Fast!
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>>380716663
>>
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ITS UP GOGOGOGO
>>
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AHHHHH
>>
>want to enjoy the new main menu for fucking ten seconds before entering
>world already full

sasuga gilgamesh
>>
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I WANT TO PLAY NOW!
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WHERE DO I GO TO PICK UP THE STORY QUEST?
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>got in right away

THANK YOU BASED DEAD SERVER ZODIARK
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how the fuck did 1000 people beat me to my critically low in pop server
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queeeueueuueueuueueueeueueueuueueue
>>
>>380716978
Mor Dhona Rising Stones thingy.
>>
>>380716978
Rising Stones.

Also, 747. FML
>>
FUCK I NEED TO FINISH 3.4 STORY AND KILL TITAN (HARD) FOR THAT QUEST WITH THE KOBOLD KID

FUCK
>>
>>380716928
I left queue and am watching main menu and movies while waiting for number to go down. It seems the queue keeps ticking even if you leave the menu, as long as you don't close the game.
>>
200 people left in Que go faster reee
>>
If I put my pre-order code a week ago, do i need to put my proper cd-key in? Because I havent done that
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>>380717095

DONT TRUST THIS ANON
>>
I know it's not that populated, but will Cactuar be alright?
>>
>>380717094
You should've done that days ago bruh
>>
>World data could not be obtained. Please try logging in later.
>>
I don't understand, the world is full so why is the queue going down? Are people logging off after 7 minutes of gameplay?
>>
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And this was at XX:00 when servers were live. 1 minute late and 2000 people ahead already.

>>380717158
I think that's just for main launch. So you can do it between now and end of early access.
>>
>>380717187
I want her to step on me
>>
HOLY SHIT IM IN
>>
Where do i unlock red mage????!
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>>380717232
they are letting people by 100s every minute or so, so the servers don't shit themselves. The login queue is full, not the server.
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ffxiv is a good game
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>>380717335
Ul'dah
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>>380717335
Ul'dah
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>>380717262

I want mommy Yotsuya to give me a breastfeeding handjob and call me a good boy!
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>>380717371
Server?
>>
>look at dungeon trailer
>Yojimbo
Why isn't he a primal? What a load of bullshit.
>>
Jesus fucking christ a queue outta nowhere and I have 7 hours to go to work.
>>
>>380717232

They are letting people in 100 at a time
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>>380717371
>only 400 in queue on Famfrit
feels good
>>
I'M IN NIGGAS
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>watching cutscenes
See yo usuckers
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I'M IN!
>>
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>>380717559
forgot image
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>>380717535
>a queue outta nowhere
Have you ever played a fucking mmo before? Any online game at all?
>>
Any cactuar bro? i'm #1636 on queue line
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>hit with 1700 in cactuar
>only 10 on alt in coeurl
Go dead worlds.
>>
Any idea when ACT will be updated? 3 days-ish?
>>
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TIME TO SPAM POTD FOR 10 HOURS HAHAHA FUCK
>>
What is the actual point of Riddle of Wind?

>uh you can use wind tackle twice
>when Fire Tackle is stronger than both combined when considering Fists of Fire
>>
>the fields are quiet and peaceful, creatures walk around without a care in the world
>suddenly hundreds of lvl1 players swarm int he field
>killing every fucking thing in sight
>cheering cause of muh found gear
>the swarm slowly moves on through the world to the next area

I used to play mmo's but whenever something new launched I would really hate playing. It is too crowded everywhere. People look funny when you haven't taken x days off from work to grind to max lvl and so on.
>>
>>380714596
>biggest mmo of 2017

And yet WoW still has millions more players...
That state of this shit genre and the people who play it... Been playing the same shit for 20 years.
>>
>>380719307
Back when ARR launched the FATEs lasted like 10 seconds because of the swarms of players. This was before they scaled FATEs to how many players were in them
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>>380714596
The amount of utter spam you cunts are making isn't surprising, what is surprising is the mods let you do it.
>>
Lovely PotD is dead and i cant release my inner weeb. Time make obnoxious macros to annoy the world then i quess
>>
Sigh, managed to get 15 min of playtime before heading to work. Going to be a long day
>>
>>380719390
>Big thing happening
>STOP TALKING ABOUT THING

Yeah gotta make room for those waifu threads and LOL threads and >her threads
>>
>>380714596
Shit game. Pay to win garbage.
>>
>>380719390
They even have a general, but no, fuck using that. Gotta let everyone know how much they're enjoying doing the same shit they've done since they started paying regularly a below mediocre FF title with awful MMO combat.
>>
>>380719208

Move around faster I suppose
>>
>>380719390
>>380719486
>>380719617
Is this really the best you can do?
>>
>>380719701
Don't you have cutscenes to be watching and PotD to run for the 1000th time?

Don't let us keep you from all that fun, anon.
>>
>>380719617
>being this mad because people enjoy video games
>>
DID THEY CHANGE ALPHINAUDS VOICE ACTOR A-FUCKING-GAIN?
>>
>>380717017
eh
>>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I CANT DO ANY QUESTS BECAUSE THEYRE BROKE
>>
>join FATE train
>FATE boss keeps becoming invisible because there are too many people around
>>
I know one of you cunts is going to be sitting on top of an important npc with your fat fucking chocobo right now. Kill yourself.
>>
>We are currently experiencing downtime with the Duty Finder

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>
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>all the new PvP gear is Lv.1 Glamor
>>
>>380720428
Don't worry senpai I'm in the queue. I'll be there soon!
>>
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>please do not use the duty finder, from square enix
>>
I relly didn't want to like RDM and now I'm addicted wtf guys
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DRK PVP WEAPON IS A GREATCLUB

FUCKING AMZING
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>all these people in their already prepared slutwear RDM glamour
>>
>>380720983
>being slowpoke slow
>>
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>Tfw Cactuar just killed a Lv70 Rank-A Hunt boss in Stormblood.
>Tfw We may as well be the first people to kill one in general
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>tfw playing RDM

MY DICK IS LIT
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>tfw world so empty you join in at 22nd in queue
>>
Are dots snapshotted or should I be applying the bard dots before I use a song?
>>
Why are these threads allowed again? They need to go back to

>>> /xivg/
>>
>>380721473
Snaphotted, unless they changed it.
>>
>>380721483
not a general
not an argument
>>
>want to log out and check what gear looks like on my alt female elezen
>dont want to wait in queues

HELP
>>
>>380721572

Fuck off. Scum like you are banished to /xivg/ for a reason. Go back to >>>/xivg/ now
>>
>>380721980
Make me faggot, I'm on /v/ to discuss games
>>
HELP WHAT'S THE IP OF THE NEW NA SERVERS.
>>
>>380722357
just fucking google it
>>
>>380721980
You better tell nintenfaggots to move back to /hm/ then
>>
Rhalgr's Reach theme really has an oldschool FF town theme feel to it
>>
So, are Direct Hits "weaker Critical hits"?
>>
Holy shit, Lyse such a bitch
>I never was in my village for years, but fuck off and join army to die
>>
Did they ever say anything about if we will actually be able to hit 70 from quests or are we going to hit a wall at 68 like HW?
>>
>>380724104
Yes.
>>
>>380724104
yes but they stack
>>
leaflet here, how do i play red mage efficiently?
>>
What server should I play?
>>
All this sam aoe in fates have made me ill. Im out
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Anyone else stuck on the MSQ with Cid instance? I can't access the new areas
>>
>>380724493
Same. I think it's because duties are fucked.
>>
PvP is fun.
>>
When can you access the new areas?
>>
So was Noroi right about the STR accessories or did he get blown out?
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>>380724795
who and what?
>>
>sitar version of glory garlemald plays at rhalgr's reach
how ironic
>>
>>380724795
You can still equip them. It says all all classes, so I assume the new gear onward will be job lock.
>>
Aw man, it was perfect and then all of the sudden I'm getting dc every 2 min.
>>
30 minute dps queues
kek
>>
>>380717335
>>380717378
>>380717404
I'm in Ul'dah right now and was able to pick up the samurai quest but I can't find the Red mage quest anywhere
>>
>>380724493
Every instance is fucked.
>>
when should i be using each song as a brd
new to brd
>>
>>380725019
go to the Recommendations menu
>>
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>>380716046
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaB8xEik488
>>
>>380725008
queues are broken all instances are broken
you think 30 mins try more like hour+ if not 3 hours like old queues used to be
>>
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>>
>all those FATEshitters
geez
>>
>fuck around on a training dummy as sam
>it's literally impossible to run out of tp at 2.41 base gcd, even with the reduction from the haste buff
>pretty sure all the other melees are like this

i'm going to stack sks and become a literal god
>>
>>380725081
Nothing there either, what's the name of the quest?
>>
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How's the unsheathing going, lads
>>
>>380725104
I already did a leveling roulette
>>
>>380725143
There's literally nothing else we can do right now.
>>
>>380725143
Get ready for every rdm and sam to not know the fuck they're doing
>>
>>380725164
Taking the Red, it's in Steps of Thal. Jesus Christ you people are so god damn helpless. It's in the fucking patch notes.
>>
>>380725152
But direct hit
>>
>all I can spread as a SCH is 70 potency
>and then that coupled with the bane nerf

Fucking why square? Aren't i better off just manually dotting everything? jesus fucking christ
>>
>>380725196
Half way to level 52. Currently taking a break to eat breakfast
>>
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I JUST WANT TO GET THE NEW AREAS
>>
>>380725196
Work. Waiting for someone to post animations
>>
PoTD up yet?
>>
>>380725219
>unironically reading
lol what a looser
>>
>tfw huge fate trains in the raubahn zone
>fate's take literally 15 minutes to complete because of the scaling
>>
>>380725152
MNK has all the tp in the world. Their 3rd combos cost 40.
>>
>>380725263
you arent a dps bitch
>>
>Thought I might pick up RDM
>Every single player in the game had the same idea
I guess I'll wait a few months.
>>
>system won't let me do sam quest
Your commie servers are just is bad as the last
>>
WHY DO YOU KEEP STRETCHING NEXT TO ME NOT YDA

MUST YOU KEEP FLASH YOUR ARMPITS AT ME ALL THE TIME!
>>
>node is supposed to give me +yield for 722+ gathering
>don't get the bonus at 860 gathering
thanks yoshi
>>
>>380725282
how are you leveling??
>>
>Midare clean crits for 2900 damage at level 51
Oh baby

>FATE mobs with more HP than dungeon bosses
>7 luminous ice crystals
>>
Is there a linkshell on Omega yet?
>>
>>380725427
>Yda is alive
thanks for the spoilers asshole
>>
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DF's so broken even full parties fail to go in.
>>
>>380714596
>Less than 30 minutes left before the servers go back up worldwide


wat, they're already up. I've been played
>>
Yep, didn't reached 61 and already had quest about evil empires raping some old women in the past
Can they came with something new?
>>
DRK feels weak as shit now.
>>
>>380725447
not him but I'd guess level 50 quests without instances. Maybe MSQs from Heavensward.
>>
>>380725520
well no fucking shit. The problem isn't the matching algorithm, it's the instances themselves that are fucked.
>>
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MCH confirmed shit hahaha I told you so!

Guess I'll switch to BRD or RDM then, thanks for ruining my favorite job SE.
>>
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>>380714596
ODIN YOU PIECE OF BITCH, LET ME IN RIGHT NOW
>>
Are there any Leves for DoL or no? Farming for collectible Gyr Abanian Alumen is fucking ass.
>>
>>380725539
How many hours ago was this thread made, eagle-eye?
>>
>on gilgameme
>players in queue: 16
yay
>>
>>380725447
>>380725447
Did hw beast tribes quests. That was a lot of exp. Did a few fates, and sone regular quests that I missed. I also did trial roulette and got steps of faith which was an easy win.
>>
>>380725558
Isn't that the point? DRK used to shit out so much damage it wasn't that hard to outperform some DPS classes. Now they're more fit to do their job, which is hold attention and do a LITTLE damage.
>>
>Quest rewards bugged too

What a launch
>>
>>380725392
Tell that to the WHM topping charts in 4 mans.
>>
>tfw intended to smash through 3.1+ as fast as possible
>tfw im actually getting really invested in the quests
>that fucking nidhogg fight
goddamn
>>
is potd working ?
what is faster doing fates or potd i just need 5 more levels to 50
>>
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>>380725415
Same.
I'm stuck here spamming this shit till I get it.
>>
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>PvP is actually fun now
I didn't expect this.
>>
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>>380714596
Why would you play this game when the superior WoW still exists?


Why is FF bad?

- Didn't feel like an open world. Game felt more on rails than any other mmo I tried. The only other one that felt kind of like on rails was ToR, but theirs was tolerable and it wasn't nearly as bad as FFXIV.

- Too many invisible walls really turned me off. I want to explore in an mmo. Not sit there and run in place because they don't want me to. Not going to go into details for all the spots I hit this in, but it is very poor in design to have that happen in an mmo.

- Too many loading screens. This got old very fast. It also takes out the immersion. That is like running from Goldshire to seeing the big gates of SW in the distant, only to hit a loading screen and BAM you are inside. You don't get the effect of running into SW yourself and looking off the bridge and jumping down into the water if you wanted. I would hate to hit loading screens for ever zone I was going through in WoW. Then again WoW's zones are a lot bigger.

- Combat is horrible and extremely slow. Nothing really new or innovating about it also.
>>
God dammit I'm stuck on the quest Fly Free my pretty
>>
>>380725516
That says "not Yda" though
>>
>>380725802
that's their niche
>>
>>380725414
only half the playerbase had the same idea the other half went to SAM
>>
>>380725897
no you
>>
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>>380725874
here's your (you)
>>
>>380725834
I can't even talk to Musosai
This shit's so fucked.
>>
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>Zalera has no login que
Nice
>>
>wanted to keep ahead of the horde of players
>was doing well up until the first instanced MSQ quest
>now forced to FATE grind with hundreds

Nice.
>>
I'm going back to sleep. Maybe the game's fixed by the time I wake up
>>
damage numbers are so much more satisfying to look at now
>>
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is mch shit now bros
so the sprint with garo gun looks like this right
>>
well that was a waste of my fucking time. stayed up only to barely get into the story because the instance servers are fucking up and I can't progress further. can't even do the aether currents!

I honest to Christ can't wait for the mmo hoppers to fucking leave after they get bored after a month or two.

hope those faggots leave asap! I hate them all with a passion! Trendy assholes are the reason the instance servers are shitting themselves!

I hope to God this game doesn't get as popular as wow!
>>
>>380725874
nice blog, where do I subscribe for more?
>>
>pre-ordered and got SB early access, thinking I'd be done with HW in time
>not even close to actually being done with HW

:(
>>
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>its a people logging in during early access and having server issues episode
Here we go again
>>
>>380726184
>Blaming the players instead of devs who cant prepare for high capacity at a launch
>>
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I'm having fun. Feels good man.
>>
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I'm a hotbar idiot. How do I RDM buttons?
>>
>3 hours later
>Instances still not fixed

What the fuck!
>>
>>380726325
Read somewhere once that to really prepare in something like this would mean investing significant amount of money to stuff that becomes irrelevant in 24 hours after players calm down and return to normality.
>>
WHERE THE FUCK DO I PICK UP A SB PALADIN QUEST
>>
>A system error occurred during event movement.

FUCK YOU LET ME PLAY THE GAME
>>
>>380726325
>being so new to games that you still think there's anything anyone can do about post launch server congestion
>>
>>380726489
check the fucking patch notes, sperg
>>
>>380726169
MCH got butchered hard just like everyone who actually read the tooltips told you so. It's not a question of potencies, it's about how the job plays and interacts with other jobs and certain boss scenarios. You have to watch your new heat gauge AND the ammunition stacks AND your procs AND your wildfire timer, it's clunky as fuck.

MCH will do "fine" but there's no reason to take him with you if you can pick a RDM or BRD instead because those two do everything just as well (if not better) but are also more comfortable to play and bring better utility.
>>
What the FUCK happened, bros? This was supposed to be OUR expansion. Now everyone is calling me a MNKuck!
>>
>>380726432
please look forward to it
>>
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>log in to sort out bars and talk with friend who just started
i want to play but then i suffer for 8 hours at work before i get to really get into it
>>
Why is the new quest music so shit
>>
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>mfw made mad money on SAM/RDM weapons so far
>>
>>380726575
>i want to play
so does everyone else who's logged in right now
>>
Having FoF up for every fight feels so good. Im bustin.
>>
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>Mercy Stroke is gone
>Ring of Thorns is gone
I KNEW IT WAS COMING
BUT IT STILL HURTS
>>
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>thunder II is actual proper lightning bolts
This is all I wanted.
>>
Now that I'm in I don't feel like playing anymore. They really did a number on WHM.
>>
Direct hit or Determination on Bard Anima
>>
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>my face I need to get to level 20 Levels for Samurai
>>
>>380726325
> not blaming the cancerous players that shout stupid shit and memes as they all overload the NPCs standing in one spot.

Seriously, the people who don't dedicate themselves to this game and are just buying a ticket to go through the theme park and then leave! They are annoying, shit always go to hell, and then they whine about being bored!

I am not falling for the pre order meme again with the next expansion because of this.
>>
>all of these FFXI enemies
>>
>>380725207
It's just a ruse to stop autists from rushing the content.
>>
Omega boys WW@?
>>
So anyone found the quests to unlock second mount speed already?
>>
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>>380726547
WHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE
>>
>>380726865
>Waa waa waa buu hooo! Everyone should play the game like I dictate.
>>
>>380726942
Mining outside of Ul'dah since I don't know what else I can do. My MSQ is blocked by an instanced fight at level 5 which I can't enter.
>>
>>380726942
Still on my old server, transferring later.
>>
Do i have to buy some RM gear or will the Class quest give me some?
>>
Best use for silver feathers?
>>
>>380727102
Both RDM and SAM get some starter gear that's like 115 ilvl which is more than enough to get into Heavensward.
>>
>>380726885
>this literal Tahrongi Canyon
>>
>>380727102
Class quest will give you some.
>>
>>380726984
Up your mordibly obese ass
>>
Why the fuck haven't they just shut down potd? The entire problem is the billion sam and rdm spamming to get in.
>>
Holy fuck, the pruning worked out TOO well. My hotbars now have holes everywhere (AST and BLM, so don't "it's simplified" me). I can't wait to see what new shit they'll add in 5.0 to fill this up.
>>
>>380727257
Everything is broken m8.
>>
>>380727318
meanwhile my pld hotbars are going to suffer, i can barely fit everything on 3 bars
>>
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>bought everything off the marketboards last night
>log in and see the new primal recipes for RDM / SAM weapons
>craft a few of each
>throw 'em up
GET MONEY
GET PAID
>>
>>380727318
Few holes as a war too.
And so glad I could take the Defiance/Deliverance macros and shove them to trash, where all macros belong.
>>
>>380727318
Bullshit. I barely have room for 3 bars on most jobs.
>>
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>Red Mage
>>
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>go to work in 30 minutes
>while I'm making fat stacks of cash, all these cucks will be betatesting the game for me and suffering through bugs and crashes and delays
>get home and SE will have everything working for my arrival
how does it feel to know that you're nothing but my slaves
>>
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>>380727590
>goes to work for someone else in 30 minutes
>calls other people their slaves

What?
>>
>Quest requires item drops
>One enemy spawns in the area every minute or so despite 40 people trying to kill it

Dont devs learn from this shit?
>>
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>having lots of fun
>loving east end
>the music is beautiful
>the scions are all together before they die
>and everyone in game is having fun
welp, I've been up all night unable to sleep because of SB. Now it's here and it's good. I need some sleep. Maybe when I wake up the DF will be working again. I doubt it.
>>
>>380727590
post your feet anon, and i'll figure out if I'm willing to be your slave
>>
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>pre-ordered the game
>got the early access code
>redeemed it
>game is registered and installed
>go to NPC in Ul'dah to start job quest
>pic related

What the fuck?
>>
>>380727701
>le wageslave meme
See this anon's image >>380727542
>>
>can only use gear coffers in cities
What the fucking fuck
>>
>>380727730
i hope this is bait
>>
>>380727714
Your first mistake is believing they only spawn in the designated areas.

I easily killed everything I needed just walking to another quest lol.
>>
>>380727715
And then you hit a wall when you need to complete a duty to progress.
>>
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>>
>>380727730
There's issues with accepting job quests atm.
>>
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>>380727720
>>
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>>380727730
>>
>>380727896
The puns in this game are out of control
>>
>Join FATEs bus
>full of red mages
>just drop on the middle
>spam tab + distance aoe attack
>get gold everytime

thanks red mages, you're good for something at least
>>
Haven't tried SAM yet but I'm sorry to say I can't imagine it being any more fun than RDM. And to think the reason I went for RDM first was because I was more excited about SAM.
>>
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>my face when I've been throwing away INT gear forever even though I plan on leveling RDM soon
>literally no relevant accessories
>highest ilvl belt I can equip is 12
>>
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>RDM trainer is a dirty c@boi
>>
>>380727829
I went through the agreement and installed both the patch and the game.

Unless there's something ELSE I'm missing, I should be able to start it.
>>
>>380728101
Get ironworks stuff its real cheap

You do have max poetics, don't you anon?
>>
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>>380728124
>Tia
>>
>>380728124
Well they are the prettyboy race and RDM is the pretty boy job.
>>
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God, the SCH changes have me bummed. Just played a few hours and it feels like I lost so much.
>>
Anyone figure out how to do the limit break in Gpose?
>>
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>RDM is way more fun than SAM
>SAM weapons look so much better than RDM
it's not fair, why can't I look good and have fun at the same time
>>
>>380728234
What about summoner? What happen?
>>
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>>380728124
>mfw he actually look like a man
>>
>>380728223
It's also cucking MCH and BLM.
>>
>SAMs already spamming their skills in public
DoA
>>
>>380728143
>BLM job quest
Oh ho ho
>>
>>380726972
Second mount speed, at least for the 2.0 areas is found from allied seals vendor for 250 per area, and I assume 3.0 is for centurion seals
>>
WHERE CAN I FIND LVL 1 DUMMIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
Guys, what's wrong with white mage? Currently I don't see any problems with it.
>>
how many hours until they stop pretending they can fix this without taking the servers down?
>>
>>380728263
RDM will have the prettiest armors, right?
>>
>>380728347
oops, quoted on accident
>>380728351
Scorpion Crossing in Western Thanalan has some
>>
>>380728264
Idk, I don't play smn.
But SCH lost
>Blizzard 2
>Aero
>Virus
>Miasma2
>Bio1
>Shadow flare nerfed
>Bane nerfed
>Adlo mana cost nerfed
>>
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>>380728234
>DRG
>ring of thorns is gone
>no more get-the-mercy-stroke minigame
>phlebotomize is gone
>no more ruining the stun diminishing return by spamming leg sweep every five seconds
>POTENCIES OF EVERY ACTION INCREASED ACROSS THE BOARD
>440 FULL THRUST
TOOT TOOT MOTHERFUCKERS ALL ABOARD THE DAMAGE TRAIN
>>
>>380727868
Yeah I found that out. Still bad design.
>>
>>380728223
>cats
>prettyboys
No, they're disgusting Inuyasha manlets. Midlanders are the pretty boys.
>>
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REEEEE 60S RECAST TIME ON SPRINT IS TOO LONG
>>
>>380728373
8. That way the people who took the day off wont have an advantage.
>>
>>380728263
Rapier and magic crystal superior.
>>
>>380728351
Also Summerford Farms.
>>
>/v/ before SB release: hurr stop complaining about removing fracture and touch of death, they nerfed demolish so it won't fall off
>playing monk right now
>demolish is constantly falling off/forced overwritten a few seconds early
Once again /v/ proves they're fucking shit at games.
>>
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>you have to use the stupid job specific HUDs
>no option to just have the shit on my status bar in a traditional form
>>
>>380728479
Get fucked caster. Sprint belongs to us TP users now.
>>
Guess I'm just going to sleep until this gets fixed. Stayed up all night for nothing.
>>
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>PC blew up while playing

WHAT THE FUCK
>>
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>>380714596
>Gameplay still sucks

Why bother
>>
>>380728537
/v/ also claimed that MCH will be fine and now they'll slowly realize how fucked the job is.
>>
>World transfer still unavailable
Come the fuck on.
>>
>>380728537>>380728619


wait until you hit lvl 70 then bitch about jobs
>>
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>>
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>>380725756
I hope your next instances for the whole duration of the expac are full of underperforming DPS shitters, heal-only netflix healers and content respecting PLDs.
>>
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>The bright amalgamation of Scatter and SAM AoE obliterating everything in sight
>Echoes of TOOT TOOT TOOT when everybody takes off to the next murder spot
>>
>Can't post screenshots because my usb flash is too fat for the ps4
Anyway, skulls had a point
>>
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>tfw the site you ordered from hasn't sent out codes yet.
>>
>>380728735
The information is out there for everyone to see, what the fuck will change at 70?
>>
>>380728853
>preordering from keysites
prepare to wait until 10pm tonight to get it
>>
Leveling up sucks

Why can't the jump potions take you right to 70
>>
Did MNK seriously just get some shitty tackles? This was supposed to be the MNK expansion? At least they actually gave us a party utility ability...
>>
>>380728619
Explain to someone who hasnt played MCH whats fucked about it? I like how it looks.
>>
Duty finder working?
>>
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>prepared to unsheathe katana like no tomorrow
>picked up rdm alongside it and started having more fun with this job
This is because I was MCH for the longest time, wasn't it?
>>
>>380728950
The site I ordered from is a legit seller though.
>>
behemoth players help me get caught up and run sohr kal with me :'(
>>
>>380728439
disembowel got nerfed to 5% though
>>
>>380729000
see >>380726562

The numbers are fine but it's really clunky to play, the utility got butchered and it's plain unfun.
>>
>>380729017
It's so simple, but so fun. Flashy, mobile between casts, feels good to dash in and do a quick combo, and the damage seems good.
>>
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Anyone been able to do the Raubahn instance yet?
I'm about to lose my shit.
>>
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>>380729000
New barrel is gay as fuck, wildfire is nerfed into the ground, lost some utility for shitty skills, doesn't feel as fun anymore.
>>
>>380729017
>one is a stylish duelist with flashy magic and super mobile gameplay
>the other is generic dps nippon strong guy
I have no idea why RDM seemed to be the less popular of the two.
>>
>>380729185
No one.
>>
>>380729017
RDM is the new MCH bro, just embrace it. Your melee phase is basically a more fun version of Wildfire, you got a priority system and basically the same utility that got taken away from the new MCH.

Played and loved MCH the entirety of HW and I'm gonna jump ship immediately, I don't even give a shit if MCH is still good numbers wise, it's a fucking pain in the ass to play now.
>>
>All these snek women

Rock hard
>>
>>380729007
it's broken right now, all instance servers are.
>>
>>380728894
you'll actually get to see how it flows with the full skillset, like how mch at only 50 something without its full combo was shit
>>
>>380729259
Why did casters get so much utility in their role skills? I feel like RDM is going to be truly able to support and damage along with that heal and multi cast raising.
>>
JUST TAKE THE FUCKING SERVERS DOWN JESUS CHRIST
>>
>>380729349
no its working now, aether anyways. plenty of people in potd and was able to complete that msq roadblock
>>
I can't click off royal road effects or held cards anymore?
>>
All I want to do is grind PoTD.
>>
>>380729359
MCH in HW got its base rotation at 40 and was competitive with BRD at 50
Now you lost all the good tools and don't get any new until 64
>>
>>380729359
You mean the new exciting skills of MCH like the shitty flamethrower that's only there to fuel your heat gauge or the exploding turrets that are literally a dps loss? It's not even hard math here, just read the tooltips and think about how they function, jesus.
>>
>>380728735
Monk doesn't get anything to fix Demolish you fucking retard.
>>
Royal road can be overwritten but helds are there to stay.
>>
>>380729403
Because BLM was useless in any progression or speedrun despite doing big dick DPS so they put at least some good utility into the role pool because otherwise RDM would be so much fucking better that it'd be ridiculous.
>>
>>380728960
They did. Mantra/Brotherhood then Feint lol
>>
>>380728662
This. When the fuck are they going to add the new EU World? I haven't heard anything and my connection is utterly fucked.
>>
i just got into a single player instance on primal
>>
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>Roegadyn RDM
>>
So lets say I want to get into FFXIV now

Do I need to buy all the other expansions? or only Stormblood?
>>
Great then this should be you autistic retards last thread before you move back to >>/vg/
>>
>>380729659
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/product/#cpse
>>
>>380729659
Only the base game + Stormblood but I advise you to try the free trial beforehand and only buy the basegame for starters because it will take quite some time before you reach the expansion content. You won't be missing out on anything, don't worry.
>>
>>380727318
>don't have enough room to fit everything on my PLD

What the fuck happened?
>>
>>380729446
Aren't those exploding turrets just used for finishing off trash packs?
>>
>>380729694
hopefully it's also the last thread before you kill yourself
>>
>>380729446
mch is the most changed class
>>
>>380729637
You know Roe's are some of the best magic users around, right?
>>
Impressive, Yoshi. I don't think I ever felt so awful playing WHM ever before and that include my time in 1.0.
>>
They fucking saved DRG. Now you barely need a second bar for controllers. The extra inventory space is amazing
>>
>>380729945
Why? They still got all their good stuff.
>>
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Where the fuck are the lightup keyboard options in this fucking game. I saw it in the patch notes and its now disabling all my lights when im ingame
>>
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>Finally get paid
>Buy game off of Amazon
>We ran out of keys btw we're only telling you this after you buy it from us goy :^)

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
>>
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>>380727318
>mfw logging in as DRK and seeing all the crossed out skills
I've lost all my drive to level it up first to test out its new skills.
>>
>>380729979
>needing backlighting
apply yourself
>>
>>380729916
You could probably count every single roegadyn mage in the game on your fingers
>>
>>380730016
L O L
O
L
>>
>>380729945
Tell yourself this before you go to bed.

"I am not Scholar."

Will instantly make you feel better.
>>
>>380729424
Yep. Looks like you have to use that AoE arrow now
>>
>female au ra ruining the war questline
aaaa fuck offfffff
>>
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All you eastern faggots enjoying the expansion?

How's that duty finder?
>>
>>380730023
Well at least you got the expansion drkbro, i can't bring myself to get it.
>>
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>>
>>380730016
get a refund
>>
How long would the duty finder fix take? A few hours or within the hour? I could just go nap
>>
>>380730034
Why should I when I can have em full blast, fucker.
>>
>>380730093
Pretty sure it's SHC who should feel relieved they aren't WHM.
>>
>>380730187
Nap it up son.
>>
WHAT role skills do I pick for katana folding job?
>>
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>>380730146
What's even the fucking point? I doubt there's anywhere to get keys by now.
>>
>unable to obtain character data due to server congestion
well, that's something I've never seen before in the last 4 years
>>
>>380730187
>We are currently prioritizing investigations regarding the Duty Finder downtime.
Countermeasures are being tested at the moment, and will require more time.
Who knows.
>>
>>380730207
Ricing gamurr faggot trash
>>
>>380730271
Stay mad that I have a nice mechanical?
>>
fucking Shatotto and holy fuck Lalai is a girl
>>
>Ramza Wyvernjack: One of best expansion launches in mmo history and people still will complain xD

What did he mean by this?
>>
>>380730210
SCH is in a worse spot now. New meta might be WHM/Noct AST.
>>
>>380730290
I have five of them, faggot.
>>
>Can't even do leves in my mining job since I haven't done MSQ
I'm running out of things to do here.
>>
>>380730292
I tried that quest several times over the past 4~ hours
>>
>>380730109

Can't log in and can't enter an instance necessary to advance MSQ in 3.4

Fuck this is a bad launch.
>>
>>380729359
Flamethrower to build heat, into the same proc based 1-2-3, off global peppering with slightly more potency, a specific cool off move to use occasionally, and an "oh shit" button in case you stop watching the barrel.
>>
Do I have to wait to get the game to get the game key if I preordered the collectors edition or are they supposed to email me?
>>
>>380730016
>he didn't order physical version
TOP KUK
K
U
K
>>
>>380730343
no the meta is going to be ast/ast. Unless whm can solo heal and ast can't they are never going to be meta with zero offensive raid buffs.
>>
>>380730410
its easy senpai
>>
>SCH might actually be in the shed
At this point you could even say it's fair that each healer got its turn in the shed

>>380730292
you actually learned that in the 50-60 chain
>>
>>380730358
So now that we got that out of the way...
Any idea where the hid the "Logitech illuminated keyboard" option?
>>
>>380730603
Might be in the launcher options.
>>
are instances back yet?
>>
>>380730813
yes
>>
>>380730813
No do fates for hours like a good little goy.
>>
I love BRD's new changes. The songs are fun as hell as they all give cool bonuses. Anyone else enjoying their new job changes?
>>
>>380730882
I enjoyed changing my job to SAM, yes.
>>
>everyone geting cucked by the grandmaster faggot raubahn

he better be dying in 4.0
>>
I never tried out the RDM DPS tester, but am I supposed to be going jolt > thunder/aero, jolt > fire/stone (if ready) and use the ready one right then or jolt >thunder/aero, until both are ready then jolt > fire , >jolt > stone?
>>
>>380730882
>WAR and especially DRK are shit and probably packing up to go to the shed
I've enjoyed my change in roles, yeah.
>>
WHAT FUCKING DPS DO I PLAY NOW AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>
>>380729596
>got in
FUCK YOU
>>
>break instances so you don't have to celebrate expac opening with 8 hours of potd
T-thanks square
>>
>>380730048
Hellsguard are skilled mages in-lore though
>>
>>380730982
you wanna jolt as little as you can help it and fish for procs, and always try to keep the mana imbalanced a bit
>>
>>380730210
Bane is literally worthless now
>>
enjoy your scuffed game where the newly added main storyline doesn't even work. kek
>>
>PLAYERS IN QUEUE: 1
>>
So is MCH really that bad off, or just different?
>>
Duties are working for me over here on Behemoth.

Got into Leveling and Trial roulette as SAM and didn't even have to wait over 10 minutes.
>>
>>380730882
I would actually like some pruning on the PLD end we have way too many attack skills just combine RA with something.
>>
>>380731192
we'll have to wait for dps numbers
>>
>>380730982
why the fuck would you dualcast Fire/Stone?
>>
>>380731021
DRK actually basically got one good change for every bad change. It's going to have a seat at the table for sure.
>>
>>380731192
It's bad, don't listen to people who are unable to read tooltips and think DPS numbers is all there is to a raid composition.
>>
I just bought the base game, which job should I boost to 60 so I can be ready for the new x-pack?
>>
>>380730253
SE Store still have codes, I think.
>>
>>380731281
Im not picking it for minmaxing raids. Im asking if its fun to play and remotely viable.
>>
>>380731293
Is there a boost only to 50? It's a way better starting point, trust me.
>>
DISABLE POTD ALREADY YOU NIP CUNT
>>
anybody know how to get the land speed upgrades yet?
>>
>>380731319
Fun is subjective, however I personally think that the changes are pretty anti-fun
>>
>>380731358
As far as I know, no. It is 60 only.
>>
>>380731297
Can SE store even run out of codes?
>>
Did dragoon get changed much?
>>
>>380731319
As someone who doesn't care about numbers I can tell you that MCH is now easily the most unfun job in the entire game. You do nothing but stare at your heat level and your ammunition count and your procs and your wildfire timer. It went from my favorite class due to the dynamic priority system to the most clunky bullshit I've seen in this game, even worse than the state of BRD in Heavensward.
>>
>>380729237
Because it's more mobile, does bigger dick dps and I guess people like the simple aesthetics instead of WOW EXPLOSIONS which has been done better by other casters.
>>
M'naago wants to be bred by the bull I see
>>
>>380731478
Yeah, it got basically buffed in every single way. Enjoy one of the best jobs in SB.
>>
>>380731297
I've had trouble buying HW from the SE store. I imagine I would with SB too.
>>
>>380730224
please respond
>>
>>380731248
I'm stupid, after casting thunder/aero just to try it, I thought fire/stone also had year long cast times too and thought reducing that would mean more damage faster.
>>
>>380731108
At least you still have bane.
They removed aero 1, all but 1 rank of stone which doesn't even apply heavy anymore and damage from fluid aura.
Now our damage is Stone, aero 2/3 and holy.
Also they removed 4 actions from our base kit to put it in role actions.Not counting cleric stance 'cause lel.
>>
>quest to collect 3 bear asses
>get to area
>only 2 bears in the entire area
>respawn is like 2 minutes
>50 nigers waiting to tag shit

bravo
>>
>>380730224
>>380731597
True North, Invigorate, Second Wind, Goad, last skill is up to your preference
>>
>>380731610
Yeah nah, Stone and Fire are basically higher potency replacements for Jolt/Impact that you can only cast on proc.
>>
>>380731674
No, Scholar does not in fact have bane
Bane is now essentially a DPS loss over multidotting while saving that aetherflow. Bane has been virtually removed.
>>
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>2 hours to run dungeons and get today exp bonus
>Duty still isnt up
>>
>>380731192
>autists on 4chan have always hated MCH since it's a technical class
>MCH got more technical
What do you think?

ProTip: It has nearly double the potential potency/second of literally every other DPS.
>>
>>380731714
Thanks!
>>
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>tfw visiting Tahrongi Canyon

the textures they use in these new zones make me oddly nostalgic for XI.
>>
>>380731108
Believe it or not, Bane isn't even the worst-nerfed skill in the game.

Blood Price on DRK restores less than 100 MP per hit at level 60 (and is only going to scale up to 120 MP per hit at level 70, meaning that you will have to be hit literally 80 times before you can fill your MP bar with it).
>>
>literally can't do anything but fates

This shit is absolute horrendous.
>>
why the fuck does it seem like its always night time in this game?
>>
>New alumen already cheaper than regular alumen

Everyones gathering now FUCK
>>
>Heir's Ear
>Fester Bay
heh
>>
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>>
>>380731319
Not anymore. After 50 heat you have 5 more shots to keep in mind before your gun explodes and 2 cooldown shots will throw you slightly under 50 every time if you do them at 90 heat. On top of that you just have the exact same thing you were doing beforehand. So it's just grind 1 and hope for 2 and 3 in the next 4 skills and throw a cooldown after that, and repeat keeping hot shot up and using oGCDs as they come up.
>>
quick how do we jew people out of money before prices stabilize
>>
>quest maps now show multiple zones so you can see where you're going
Hnnnnnnnnnngh
>>
I just got in an instance.
>>
>>380731714
>>380731862
Wait, is there a typo in the tooltips or SAM doesn't have any positionals anymore? I don't see positional requirements in any of the skills
>>
>free samurai set looks fucking badass
hot DAMN
>>
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So what the fuck did they do to blm?
From what I can tell, enochian is perma on once triggered unless I drop Astra or umbral, which I used to do as part of my opener. That's not so big a deal though.
But I guess now I'm supposed to spam blizz 4 a few times for umbral hearts to cheapen my fire iv casts?
I don't see that as really being worth doing more than maybe as casting ice iv while recharging mp anyway since now we don't need it to refresh enochian
>>
>>380731940
>expecting to make money off the literal first item, and the only thing around to get exp off of
>>
>>380732092
Guess thats true. Wonder how long it would take to just grind the entire way. Leves not working?
>>
What role jobs do I pick for tank?
>>
>>380728853
>tfw you haven't bought the expansion and don't give a shit
>>
>>380732061
never mind, it's unlocked with kenki gauge at lv52
>>
>>380732078
Cast Blizz 4 while in ice to get 6 fire IVs
sharpcast fire I when you have convert up to get a firestarter for more fire IVs
>>
I got in without waiting.
>>
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>>380732152
rampart, convalescence, low blow, reprisal, provoke

>mfw PLD is actually fun when level synced cause you have low blow and reprisal to as oGCD to use to at least break up the raging halone monotony.

Swap Low blow with Interject or Awareness if it's needed for a mechanic.
>>
Are instances fixed yet? I'd like to play but I have nothing to do aside from instanced stuff.
>>
>still cant do the quest
>>
>>380731319
While the heat mechanic adds something, your downtime just gets worse. Your cds pretty much line up with WF, but after an overheat you are literally stuck pressing 1 over and over.
>>
I got to level 10 as monk then swapped to gladiator, the very first heavy armor you get looks amazing, does the tank gear look this good consistently throughout the game? I may have to keep playing.
>>
>kicked out first dungeon because I didn't DPS
>>
>>380732145
Do we know the exp numbers for every level yet? You need 50 collectable alumen for level 61.
once leves are accessible I'm moving to those, collectables suck ass for exp and everyone who said they were good in HW is gay
>>
>>380732362
Some of it is pretty great.
>>
the fuck are people getting the red mage AF gear from?
>>
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>Kinda want to sleep
>Kinda want to keep following the FATE train
>>
Yet ever do our aching souls March heavensward. As they've done for so long
>>
Did the fucking voices change? Tatumaru sounds different?
>>
Can I put buffs that show up on the gauge back on my status bar again? I'm used to gluing my eyes there.
>>
>>380732293
Why would you need low blow when you have shield bash.
>>
>>380732395
Speaking of which where is the Raw Triphane node?
>>
>>380732704
because it's oGCD
>>
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>>380732635
>CHANGE VAS EVERY EXPANSION
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
BRING BACK THE ARR VOICE ACTORS
>>
>>380732731
(25.9, 8.6), 2:00 PM/AM
>>
>time for work
Could be worse I guess
>>
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tfw DRK is kill
>>
>>380732425
>not letting your bot fate grind for you while you sleep
>>
>still can't continue the story
THANKS
>>
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>playing SAM for the first time

I like how the whole Sen and Iaijutsu techniques flow into each other so far.
>Midare Setsugekka
>>
>>380714596
>lost my one time password generator years ago
>always come back to try playing
>have to jump through 1000 hoops to even play
>nah, fuck this game as usual
>>
>they removed Rampart
Wait what the fuck?
>>
>>380732881
cross role
>>
>>380732881
cross role you dingus
>>
>>380732881
It's cross-role now
>>
>>380732770
>>380732731
forgot to say, it's in the fringes and slot 6
>>
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(controller) You can't lock on/off anymore with L3 when one of the triggers is held for accessing the hotbar.
Anyone who is experiencing the same problem?
>>
>>380732405
From the box you get?
>>
>>380732770
>>380732925
Oh cool it's not beyond the Garlean gate thing. Still gay we don't have any leves to level off of.
>>
>>380732881
>it's a role skill
>but they changed the icon
Well still gay
>>
>>380732934
No because I'm not a subhuman that plays with a controller
>>
>Want to switch from monk to RDM
>I have no gear that actually works for RDM so i'd have nothing decent to equip on it at all as I level

this sucks
>>
>>380732934
Yes. It was weird, at first I thought you can't lock-on at all.
>>
>>380733016
the quest gives you a box with a full set you retard
>>
>>380733095
I meant as I level you retard
>>
>>380733016
You get 5 pieces of gear for unlocking the job, and can buy accessories/belt cheap from vendors.
>>
>Soul Eater nerfed from 100% (one hundred percent) life drain to 10% (ten percent)
>Meanwhile, Inner Beast still heals for 100% and Storm's Path heals for 50%

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED
>>
>>380733123
You got sent to the cuck shed
>>
>>380733123
>get DRK in dungeon
>boot him because his self heal and mitigation is shit
Fuck off DRKuck
>>
>>380733113
not only does gear not matter for PotD, but you can also buy vendor shit, faggot.
>>
>>380733123
Souleater still heals for 100 in Grit, so does Abyssal Drain. Syphon Strike also gives you double the MP in Grit.

Blood Price is fucked, though. Like, "This might be a bug" fucked.
>>
>>380731549
>drg lost 5% on their piercing debuff
>all their potencies increased by way more than 5%
>the character lock after execution of this skill has been adjusted
Feels good to be a loldrg
>>
>>380732934
>>380733042
Doesn't look like it's a particular setting so i'm assuming it's some sort of bug
>>
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Please just let me finish this god damn quest.
>>
New BRD is fucking F U N
>>
>>380733352
New MCH kinda isn't... but then again there seems to be no reason to actually play one over any of the other classes.
>>
>nodes are back to having guaranteed buffs, on top of having random better ones
feels good lads
>>
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>ast dps rotation is one insta dot and malefic spam
>>
>>380733296
>>380733042
>>380732934
It'll be fixed hopefully, someone else said when using controller it's making him go through menus too quick etc
>>
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Any of you fuckers plays on Midgardsormr? i want to level up and meme it up with someone

>tfw have to work today

thanks god it's only 5 hours.
>>
>>380733591
youre a healer you just heal
>>
>>380733591
did they axe Gravity?
>>
>>380733248

What happened to Blood Price?
>>
>the one time I actually care about going fast in PotD and I keep running into the worst fucking retards
>>
>>380733839
enjoy your SAM DPS
>>
>>380732934
>locking on
Why? It restricts your movement heavily and you can't turn around or enter the enemy hitbox
>>
Does POTD work?
>>
>>380733892
but I'm leveling RDM
>>
>>380733739
>goes down to 1 spell in aoe situations
>>
>>380734079
I wasn't specifically talking about you.
What jobs were the other shitters in your PotD run?
>>
>>380733741
It now restores so little MP per hit that you need to get hit 31 times while under Blood Price before you can do a DA Abyssal Drain.
>>
What's the best way to level up a new job to 60?

PotD or Fates?

Please advice. Thanks brothers
>>
>>380734146
mostly SAM and cats/lalas with weeb names
>>
>>380734308
There you go.
That's the "we wanted SAM to be a DPS!" crowd.
>>
>healers crying about their lower dps

What the fuck, nothing is stopping you from dps'ing but if you wanted higher dps then just play a fucking dps
>>
>>380734235
buy jump potion goyim


just kidding it's POTD
>>
>>380734381
same goes for fucking warriors

autism is really strong in this game
>>
>>380734381
>just play a fucking dps
They're probably going to do so, fucking up the queues even further, retard.
That's detrimental to everyone.
>>
>>380731830
As a MCH main I say you're full of shit.
>>
>>380734381
There's no reason that it should take as long as it does now to kill enemies on the overworld and in solo duties.
>>
>>380734381
I'm just crying about being a WHM with 0 utility.
>>
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>PotD and DF works now
>MSQ instances still don't work
LET ME FUCKING PROGRESS
>>
>talk to raubahn
>get dialog
>confirm duty
>a system error occurred during event movement
>talk to raubahn
>get dialog
>confirm duty
>a system error occurred during event movement
>talk to raubahn
>get dialog
>confirm duty
>a system error occurred during event movement
>try to talk to raubahn
>GET NOTHING AT ALL
RAUBAHN YOU USELESS ONE ARMED SHIT
>>
>>380734234

Jesus, why did they cuck DRK so hard? At least WAR's skills still work the same as they used to.
>>
>>380734523
>boohoo I can't suck someone's dick to give them a 10% damage buff
>nobody will invite me to their ultra hardcore speedkilling static now
>>
>>380734661
>>380734661
>>380734661

new thread
>>
>>380734598
DRK is actually a lot stronger overall and they've got hands-down the best tank stance, really good damage in their DPS stance, etc.

It's really JUST Blood Price that got mangled that badly. Like I said, it's bad enough that I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was a bug.
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