How can they call it """4k""" resolution

Did you really think a console would have native 4k? For $500? Really?

>>380689871
4k is a meme anyways.

>>380689871

Because you retards will buy it.

>>380689871
Remind me again what the fuck checkerboarding is

>>380689871
Does anyone here even know anybody that has a tv that outputs a 4k?

>>380691709
I do not personally know anyone. 4k televisions are still very uncommon.

>>380691709

Nope, and it's why I couldn't care less about this "4k" hysteria.

>>380691496

>While exact implementations tend to vary between developers, the technique generally involves rendering only 50% of any given scene, often rendering it in a grid of 2×2 pixels.

>>380691869
>>380691709
You must be living under a rock then.

If you go to say Costco the majority of TVs being sold are 4K now. There were only two 1080p TVs over 40" the last time I went and those will probably be gone before the end of the year.

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>>380691496
instead of rendering 3840x2160 pixels each frame
it renders 1920x1080 pixels in a grid of 2x2 pixels, circling through the pixels every 4 frames
so only 1/4 pixels and rendered per frame
the other 3 pixels are interpolated by blurring it
its like interlacing except in a grid instead of columns, and blurring pixels instead of just leaving them unchanged

so its only rendering 1080p and then upscaling to 4k output, just a somewhat fancier method of upscaling

also Asscreed Origins was using dynamic resolution scaling on the XB1X so it might not even be 1080p, might be ducking down to 900p or 880p at times

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>>380689871
It isn't 1080p upscaled, it is 1800p upscaled. For the PS4 Pro at least, maybe Xbutt X can do better.

>>380691496
With checkerboard rendering, you break up the screen's pixels into a tiny checkerboard pattern. Half of the blocks are actually rendered at the native resolution, the other half are constructed from prior frame data. When people say fake 4k this is the biggest trick they are talking about.

>>380689871
Most games still don't even run at 1080p and a decent framerate on consoles, this obsession with 4k is consumerist retardation. They're trying to push more expensive consoles and tvs on people.

>>380691709
literally everyone I know

>>380689871
Are we really doing this meme just because a shitty game from Bioware is using checkerboarding?

>>380692149
so isn't this the same thing as interlacing like 1080i was before 1080p was a thing?
except instead of just vertical columns its in squares

>>380692498
Somewhat, but instead of there being just empty data there between the rendered stuff you get composited filler rendered in which helps somewhat making it less noticeable.

>>380693019
so its blurry

>>380693898
Blurrier than a native 4k, of course. It is still a step up from 1080p though.

>>380694260
but whats the difference between it and just 1525p upscaled to 2160p in terms of blurriness then?

>>380692098
And it gives an unsightly checkerboard effect (as per the name) on fast movement.

>>380691709
Not a tv, but one of my monitors does 4K.

>>380694446
Closest to that would be Uncharted 4 I guess, it uses a native 1440p. I wouldn't know though I never got around to playing that.

>>380694745
but wouldn't 1440p be 11% less pixels rendered per frame?

>>380691709
Everyone I know has a 4k tv. They're not expensive anymore. I got a 55 inch, good brand too for 600 bucks.

>>380691709

>Does anyone here even know anybody that has a tv that outputs a 4k?

Everyone I know bar those that don't even have tv's.

Then again I don't know any poor people.

>>380694893
this desu

just w-waiting for content heh

So I have to buy a new TV to go with my $500 console?
And the game still will display blurry because its not native 4k?

What do they call it 4k, when it's only 3840?

>>380691709
Yea and i cant wait to pick this up

>>380695147
No and No

Movie 4k is 4096x2160.
1080p is 2k (2048x1080).

>>380696206
Meant to reply to >>380695803

>>380692098
Close, but so far this gen checkerboard rendering uses a native res of 3200x1800. Thats what PS4 Pro games use and its what Digital Foundry confirmed for Ass Creed on the XBOX

>>380695803
shilling, it's UHD
cinema 4k is the only 4k

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>>380693898
in practice it produces a slight shimmering effect on edges, if you zoom in on edges on "4K" screenshots on the Pro you'll see a dithering on edges, zoom in on this and you'll see it, especially on the MC's glasses strap etc.

>>380692089
I work at costco and the majority of the TVs we sell are still 1080p tvs. And I work at a high volume store as well since we are fairly close to the rich neighborhood.

of course we sell a good amount of 4k tvs when they are on sale but 1080p tvs still get sold much more.

>>380696919
The people buying 1080p sets now are the ones just now upgrading from literal CRTs, because they noticed LCDs finally hit their price range while buying toilet paper in bulk.

>>380691709
I know two. But they got em on sale

>>380697229
bruh like 80% of people have a cheap TV. "the people" no, you are just some white suburban kid. Not everyone buys 600 800 dollar TVs.

>>380691709
Downsampling looks great in some games, tho.

>>380691709
2-3 friends have them. They upgrade their TV around once every 10 years so they opt for the best TV money can buy when they do, it's a fairly common practice.

I work in an electronics store and we sell a decent amount of 4K screens to average people, now that OLED HDR luxury screens are becoming more common, it's driven the regular LED 4K screens down in price to where it's pretty acceptable.

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Honestly, if you're gonna advertise your console as a "true 4k" console, you should at least be rendering NEAR 4k.
I'd have no problem with this if it was rendering at like 90% of 4k, but checkerboarding up from 1800p or lower, at that point it's not 4k.
That said, I can understand why these consoles aren't hitting native 4k in a lot of games, let alone 4k60, native 4k is pretty fucking demanding.

>>380692089
I am not living under a rock. I am a normal person with a decent number of friends, most of whom are interested in the typical geek hobbies. None of them own a 4k TV. None of my relatives own one.

4k is at about the point of saturation HDTV was in 1999.

>>380689871
>that feeling when I consider 1440p@144hz to be actually better than 4k

>>380692149
Do people use this to fake 1080p with fancier graphics as well? Seems like it would work in any range of resolutions.

>>380691709
My friend does. 4K is a fucking meme

>>380691709
My dad bought a $500 62 inch TV.
It's 1080p.

>>380697592
Depends on the game, for a twitchy shooter I would take 1440p/144hz any day.

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>>380697983
>1080ti gets 50-80 fps on games in 4k
>people actually thought XboX could handle

>>380689871
The 4k meme is stupid and almost nobody actually has a 4k TV. They need to be pushing for 1440p 60 FPS and then as 4k tech actually evolves over the next decade, they can push for that.

Right now, consolefags who are technologically illiterate just hear FOUR KAY and think it's some ultra HD grafix. Just getting scammed.

>>380696613
>shilling, it's UHD
>cinema 4k is the only 4k
Here I am, an electronic hardware/OS researcher, and it’s on /v/
where I see someone not retarded.

>>380692149
>With checkerboard rendering, you break up the screen's pixels into a tiny checkerboard pattern. Half of the blocks are actually rendered at the native resolution, the other half are constructed from prior frame data. When people say fake 4k this is the biggest trick they are talking about.
Lel. What a load of cancer video displays and all things related have
become.
Displayport actually has support for lossy video signals now, and they
explicitly market the feature as ‘lossless’.

>>380699042
who the fuck would buy a 1440p TV?

>>380698972
You can manage 4k/60fps on a 1060 or 480 if you dial back settings. 1080 Ti just manages it with everything maxed out.

>>380699267
You could still downsample a 1440p image to a 1080p screen.

>>380699267
I don't think I've ever even seen a 1440p TV. Pretty common for computer monitors and high end phones though.

>>380689871
SILKY SMOOTH 60 FPS PER (2) SECOND(S) 4(/4)K MASTER RACE

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I think one of the best deals you can get right now is with 2560x1600 monitors. You can get these for between $150 to $250 on ebay most of the time. In good quality brands too.

>16:10
Not a downside imo. 16:10 is more comfy to use and most PC games have 16:10 modes. And if they don't there is usually a workaround.

>>380699042
>almost nobody actually has a 4k TV.
where did this meme come from? They have sub $500 50 inch 4k tv's now.

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>>380699403
>You can manage 4k/60fps on a 1060 or 480 if you dial back settings.
You'd have to dial back settings pretty hard to hit 4k60 on those GPUs depending on the game.
Even on a GPU like an R9 Fury X/GTX 1070 you already have to dial back settings in some games.
I'm sure something like Dirt 4 could probably still run at 4k60 on high settings on a 1060/480, but I wouldn't say more games scale that well to lower-end GPUs.

>>380698972
It can

4k/60/max is much more demanding than 4k/30/mediumhigh

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>>380699042
>The 4k meme is stupid and almost nobody actually has a 4k TV.
I haven't seen anyone with anything but a UHD TV in a long time. It
still is a meme though, because all TVs are horrible pieces of crap
now. Even getting a UHD monitor that's even moderately decent will
cost a minimum of a thousand dollars.

Hilariously, old 1080p DLP projection screen TVs display a less
mangled image than even the highest end UHD TVs on the market.
Basically, they shove the image through a bunch of filters to trick
people into thinking they’re now able to see the image more clearly,
when in reality they’re seeing post-processing effects and a lower
quality (but visibly DIFFERENT) image.

Amusingly, I’ve noticed a lot of TVs now have huge input lags which
make them unusable for gaming.

>>380698972
The GPU in the Xbone XXX is slightly under a 1070 in horsepower actually, the issue is the CPU is complete and total shit so there is a massive bottleneck.

>>380699919
Majority of people will keep their 1080p big screen tvs

>>380699919
>They have sub $500 50 inch 4k tv's now.
That are pieces of shit you will be lucky to have last 2 years.

>>380700457
>Amusingly, I’ve noticed a lot of TVs now have huge input lags which
>make them unusable for gaming.
I hadn't played a 30 FPS console game in awhile, the first time I booted up BotW on a fucking $600 TV there was literally a a good 800 ms of input delay.
Even in gaming mode there was more delay than even on the fucking WiiU gamepad or my shitty Sceptre 720p TV that I got for my dorm for like $120.
Really bugs me how many of these high end TVs are nearly impossible to play games on.
>>380700517
The GPU in the Xbone X is about on par with an RX 580, which is a GTX 1060-tier GPU.

>>380689871
>it does a few more games in native 4k so its "true 4k gaming"
fuck consoles and their brainwashing bullshit.

>>380700457
>I haven't seen anyone with anything but a UHD TV in a long time.
Where are you from? UHD TVs are not common at all.

>>380700808
>$600
>High end TV
Pick one.

>>380700942
I never said it was high end, I said it was $600.
Fuck using a TV for video games.

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>not using a PS4P with a low-latency 1080p display

>>380701104
My 48 1080 TV is fine for video games using pc or consoles

I did research before I bought it to make sure it didn't have big input lag though, don't really notice a difference to my 120hz monitor which I think is due to only using a controller with the TV. If I used a mouse it'd probably be noticeable

>>380701325
>My 48 1080 TV is fine for video games using pc or consoles
What brand/model/price?

>>380689871
4k haha

>>380689871
Because no one really cares about 4K. Might as well just get 1080p with higher end AA effects. It will give you the same effect on most TVs/Setups given the average distance most people sit from the display. Only techbloggers care.

That said, I wasn't getting one anyways. Never forget that they wanted to restrict used games and force always online. So fuck em.

>>380700897
>Where are you from? UHD TVs are not common at all.
Small hick town in Michigan. Everyone’s poor, but UHD TVs are still
all I see (unless they’re meth-heads).

Where are you guys from where UHD TVs are uncommon?
Tell me so I can move to a television meme-free zone.

>>380691709
I bought a 4k HDR tv for PS4Pro and FFXV, and yes sir it is fucking awesome.

and while they say Checkerboard isn't real 4k, it is a shit ton better than 1080p.

>>380689871
I honestly would rather have a solid 1080p television with excellent black/white levels and good color contrast and range than what these modern 4K tvs are today. 4k is the same meme that 1080p has been for awhile.
>No real improvements on picture quality or advancements in tech to emulate it
>but "Muh high resolutions" at 60 shitty Hz otherwise called FreshMotion 120™

>>380701439
>Might as well just get 1080p with higher end AA effects.
There is no higher end AA effect than supersampling, which is just rendering at a higher resolution.

>>380701393
Got it in 2015 £450

Can't remember exact model but it's Samsung 48 5600 I think

>>380702301
I've got the 55" version of that TV and in 30 FPS console games the input lag is pretty noticeable.
Even in 60 FPS console games there's a bit of input lag (though it's less noticeable).

>>380700457
Yeah, people assume that all 4K TVs > all 1080p TVs.

Buy a good TV, people, not just one with the highest numbers and lowest price.

>>380702586
Did you try pc mode?

I almost took mine back before I figured out the pc mode from googling

>>380703086
Well fuck me, I didn't even know about the PC mode.
I'll have to check that out, thanks anon.

>>380689871
Most people genuinely have no idea what kind of hardware you need to run a modern game at 4K resolution and 60FPS. There is no way in hell a console can do that AND have an affordable price.

>>380701765
>TV signal is still fucking 720p and 1080i

>>380701502
I simply do not believe you. It may be you are seeing TVs you think are UHD which are not.

>why are they making 4k consoles when nobody has a 4k TV ????
>why are they selling 4k TVs when there's nothing that outputs 4k????
And around and around the vicious circle goes until people who actually want to innovate do something about it.
Eventually every output stream and every TV will be 4k, and with the way pricing on hardware is going it won't be long.

>>380689871
Is this true?

>>380704414
But it isn't true 4k

Why don't people fucking realize that consoles don't run a massive OS in the background? The CPU is less important compared to the GPU. Devs are fine with a multi core x86 processor.

>>380705030
It's entirely capable of native 4K, considering they showed it both prior to and during the conference.

Checkerboard rendering fucking sucks in motion. I don't get how Sony ponies can tolerate that shit

>>380705030
No, but it does still look better than 1080p. The image is still 3840x2160, it just only draws half of the pixels from scratch per frame. Even then some games are actually done in native 4k, they just don't involve very complex environments (like sports games).
It's at least a nicer solution than when they shilled the 360 and PS3 as being true HD machines when really most things were rendered at 720p and just stretched into 1080p making a blurry mess. The checkerboard method is a little more elegant though still misleading.

>>380705370
It's even worse in screenshots than it is in motion.
Digital Foundry cited Watch_Dogs 2's implementation as a good one, but it's just so fucking blurry.

>>380705404
>It's at least a nicer solution than when they shilled the 360 and PS3 as being true HD machines

I remember when Halo 4 came out and it was a big deal that it ran at native 720p. Times were fun.

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>>380691709
>mfw I have a Microsoft fanboy friend who bought a 4k tv for Xbox one s and it doesn't support hdr

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Hmmm

>>380701618
>checkerboard is better than native 1080p
Prove it.

>>380705759
It's the watchdogs 1080p60fps meme on consoles all over again

>>380705759
B-BUT MUH 4K

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>>380705759
I fuck knew it! Fuck you Phil. I can't believe I almost trusted you

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>>380689871
well...
It depends of the game
and how lazy the developer is to optimise a game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euEtajcmi1U

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>>380705908
Kek, that shit was hilarious.

>>380706104
>and how lazy the developer is to optimise a game
And how ugly the game in question is*
FTFY

>>380696206
1080p is 1920 x 1080
idiot

>>380689871
So its rendering between 1525p to 1800p upscaled to 2160p
meanwhile nintendo gets 720p to 1080p outputted at 1080p

720 -> 1525p is 4.5x more pixels, thats pretty fucking huge

MS lied yet again, the thing is just another ps4 pro. Can we stop pretending xbox should continue to exist now? That meme lasted 2 weeks too long

>>380707685
I'd expect a premium $500 console to be more powerful than a $300 hybrid console.

>>380705741
It does

>>380689871
There are absolutely zero laws regulating any sort of practice in the video game industry. That's why they can keep lying about tru-4k, lying about games running on native hardware, sell you on-disc DLC, sell day-1 DLC, and market slot-machine games to children disguised as mobile games.

>>380689871
It's OK when Microsoft does it

Thank you based Uncle Phil

May I swallow next time?

>>380699042

They will never push for even just consistent 1080p 60fps because doing that wouldn't help sell any more TV's.

Everyone already owns a full 1080p television, so the only thing mastering 1080p 60fps would do is allow people to reach the full potential of tech they already own.

What the companies want is to provide an incentive to buy a new TV.

>Have a guy shout about TRUE 4K
>Have another guy shout about EXCLUSIVE
>Neither are true

What a ride.

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lol ponies
xbox WON

>>380689871
Lmao at consolefags
Tfw been playing at smooth true 4k for nearly 2 years now

>>380710723
It makes sense for Sony to do that, but Microsoft doesn't sell TVs. I guess they really just want to match Sony's efforts.

I am betting that those games running at 1080p30fps on the OneX and on the PS4 are just the developers putting those limitations out laziness, because otherwise they'd need to do:

>PS4 version
>XB1 version
>PS4Pro version
>XB1X version

Each with a difference configuration. So instead they just optimize things for the XB1 or the PS4 and ignore the extra juice on the other consoles.

The XB1X is more than theoretically capable of running those games at 4K, it just doesn't because developers are pigs.

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>>380689871

Come on, it's just a few more years until "XxXboxXxOneXxX" Xtreme.

Xbox owners are fucking stupid.

>>380697229
You're an out of touch idiot.

>>380697592
Agree with this. You've got to be a pompous retard to think 4k TV's are just flying off the shelves by ALL consumer brackets. I think you put it well.

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>>380691709
I bought a 55inch 4K but at the end of the day I feel like I'd have been happier with a bigger, nicer 1080p. I don't really sit close enough to the TV for 4K gaming to do it for me and I'm gonna be moving my couch back to make room for a table so the 4K is going to be even less noticeable.
I even set it to 1080p mode to show off some stuff to my friends and they were like "oh wow 4K looks fucking great you have to get real close to even see the pixels" and then I told them it was in 1080p. Granted, plenty of shit looks better in 4K (why wouldn't it) but it's just not that necessary.

>>380689871
Is this the sound of butthurt, kaz?
Sony on full damage control

>>380697229
Quite the cunt aren't you? So which is it, you're still in high school, or you're in college living at your parents? Probably "working through school" (a part time job that only pays for your phone, gas, and out to eat food while your parents actually pay the real bills).

A sentence says a lot about a person, and yours says you're a probably a fucking douche.

checkerboarding
30 fps
LOL

>>380691496
Marketing buzz word

Its resolution version of "60 frames per 2 second".

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>>380699909

I love my 16:10 monitor. 16:10 is great for watching movies with subtitles or youtube videos with those little icons in the corner because pop up controls aren't blocking the picture.

I wish that the 16:9 ratio hadn't caught on, but panel manufacturers are now just going full retard with 21:9 sacrificing vertical resolution for ultrawides so people can play as robocop.

Marketing.

>>380713034
its funny because robocop is 4:3

>>380713034
this
21:9 is retarded, why would i buy one when i literally get more picture out of anything else

>>380713034
>>380714279
Because 16:10 is, like you say, just fine/slightly better for watching video, but 21:9 gives you more desktop space for shit like editing, multiple app hopping, and (when the /v/idya supports it) a more immersive experience that's easier to acquire/setup than a 3-screen array.

>>380699909
>low hz
>no GPU sync
>probably mediocre input lag
>almost certainly shit UI
>aspect ratio/resolution is one of those horrible low-adoption step-children, even worse than 1440p

>>380716070
you literally get more screen space by getting a bigger 16:9 than any 21:9 meme shit.
they cut off vertical, you dont gain any horizontal. its just cut off bigger 16:9

what he fuck do you need 4k for anyway, 1080p is fine

>>380700457
Nice Reddit formatting, friend.

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LIBERA TUTEMET EX INFERNIS

>>380697983
4k is a marketing term that's there deceive you. While 1080p, 1440p and 1800p all describe the vertical pixel count, 4k describes the horizontal one. Your picture for example is 4k , but that's just a fancy way to say it's 2160p.
And believe it or not 1800p is pretty near to 4k. 1800p is 83% of 4k if you compare the vertical or horizontal pixel count. It's not 90%, but incredibly close.

why don't they just make use checkerboarding to make 30fps into 60fps??

>>380717059
>it's just cut off vertical, you don't gain any horizontal hurr
Anon, again, 16:10 is as good as & sometimes slightly better for watching videos, but can have compatibility problems due to low adoption.
21:9 memeshit is slightly better for everything else you use a computer for, but can have compatibility problems due to low adoption.

>>380689871
Yeah stop beliveing reddit and rumours

>>380689871
I just bought a used launch edition PS4 3 days ago. This entire console generation is fucking terrible, I might as well spend as little money on it as possible.

>>380718164
Then why not wait three years for the thing to be $100 cheaper?

>>380697983
4k/60fps == 1080p/200+fps

>>380689871
checkerboarding is not the same as upscaling. It is rendered at 4k; the detail is just spread out over multiple frames in motion

>>380718298
so 30 fps checkerboarding is really 15 fps

It isn't upscaled
It's true 4k you retard

>>380697983
>>380696658
>>380700019
>>380711874
>UI is very sharp
>everything else is blurry and full of artifacts
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAASHAHAHAHAH

>>380718257
Impatience. I want to play vidya now.

>>380718567
Understandable, have a great day.

>>380718450
Well that's why they run the checkerboarding at 60fps.

>>380689871
That's not what checkerboarding is, dimwit. Also the ps4 pro doesn't checkerboard to 4k. It checkerboards to 1800p except the couple of 1st party games. The x1x at checkerboard 4k will still look much crisper than the pro at checkerboard 1800p, just like 720p looks way crisper than 1080p.

This shit is the future anyway. If you're going to dip in the market you may aswell get the best option for the games you'll be playing. That's assuming you don't want the hassles of pc which is understandable as to why you might settle for console.

>>380689871
So is checkerboards 4K nicer to look at than 1080p?

>>380721369
Way nicer, because the image is still being outputted at a 2160x3840 and the checkerboarding artefacts are pretty much unnoticeable unless you zoom into the screen at a magnification of like 500x. It's some good shit and I think it'll allow for similar visuals as high end 4k pc's which are running at native 4k.

In all honesty, I'm impressed with the One X