Ok, this was a very good game when it launched, but can we discuss

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>game lifts up the curse of bad superhero games
>comes up with it's original awesome mechanics
>one of the smoothest combat ever
>hacks rip them off
>op bash on the game and say it's cancer
I guarantee you were dropped on your head as an infant and you probably suck dicks too

Well, that's just the rule of capitalism. Once something good and popular comes out, others ape it in pursue of profit. Bam Ham Lum knew full well its strength was in atmosphere and metroidvanian map structure, so combat and stealth were just placeholders to keep the pace up. And I'm pretty sure it was far from first in using detective mode.

>>380235394
Eagle vision came first
Opinions on combat are subjective
Stealth is ridiculously easy but it's not a stealth game so whatever

You can say the same about WoW and how it provided a simple formula for MMOs.

surprised when I saw detective mode in persona of all things

>All you have to do is mash X!!!!!

People who say this about Arkham combat needs to be eradicated

>>380235394

either games like that will have detective vision, obvious and obnoxious natural visual communication (like coloring all the interactive items red/yellow/white/etc), or they will have floating markers

you are just going to have to face facts that not every game is going to be dark souls or morrowind.

>>380235394
The fighting style is a plague, this auto-lock-on-auto-move-into-range shit is barely more than a qte

>>380235394
Asylum didn't ruin video games. Asscreed II and City did.

Asylum is a rad as fuck game, but none of its influences came about until after City.
Only around 2011 and onward, when City came out, did EVERY game start having detective vision, babbymode stealth, etc.

Yeah, you can attribute those things to Asylum, but City popularized them.

Fuck City. City sucks my bamham cock.

>>380238201
I think the complaint is more that the combat is simplistic and rather automized. There is very little that you have to do yourself because the game does it for you (like aiming your punch).

>>380238201

I mean, if you want to be cool and stylish and get a high multiplier you need to do more than that.

If you just want to get through the game, pressing one button will get the job done eventually.

>>380238340

what would you prefer? do we need to have dodge rolls and half hour fights?

>>380238490
Until the big dudes, shock troops and ninjas show up

Honestly the detective mode bit is kinda disingenous because a lot of games were already using obnoxious handholdy markers at that point and some like Dead Space made them more organic. Same with the dumbed down stealth, that was already a thing in Ass Creed and other games, can't really pin the blame on Bam Ham. It's not a very good game on its own but it's also not the most cancerous thing for the industry. If anything Half Life 2 was far more cancerous and its negative effects are felt in every big budget release.

>>380238490

did you know the combo counter goes higher than 8?

>>380238665
Shit bait but here's a (you) for the effort

>>380238735
just report posts like that and move on

>>380238665
i know you're baiting but i legitimately like bamham combat
i just despise the fact that it's become so popular with NO evolution

shadow of mordor added jack dick nothing to the concept and it's why that game is so boring

>>380238504
What the flying fuck are you talking about? What the hell does that have to do with my post? How about a game that doesn't auto-lock-on, or auto-move-into-range?

>>380238769

i want you to explain how it would work in detail for batman to fight a group of 8 enemies in an area the size of a regular 4-way road intersection.

>>380238201
Yeah, you mash direction + punch with the occasional button thrown in for specific enemy types. It's a braindead combat system, kinda enjoyable if you just want to zone out and watch the numbers go up but not very engaging if you want games that demand some attention.

i only wish they didn't make 3 batman games but rather 3 games in arkham with different characters, like batman, nightwing or robin, and catwoman with their own games and different villains.

catwoman was fun to play in city because she didn't rely on a gorillion gadgets and her show off moves left her wide open to get hit so you at least had to be a little careful. they could have refined climbing not to be so qte-ish. instead we just got 3 games of challenge mode bullshit that cock teased the possibilities of other characters as the main characters.

>>380238769
Well the point of that gameplay is that its meant to be very seamless because Batman is a very skilled martial artist.
You would be right to complain about the difficulty or the lack of options, but it does make sense in the way it is meant to be spectacular.

>>380235394

>blaming a good game for inspiring bunch of uninspired hacks to do half-assed copies

I don't think that's how it works.

>>380238926
If you mash you will miss and your combo will reset and without a high combo you can't use special moves

>>380235394
>influential
>cancer
im ok with the game, desu
fuck, I really like it
I agree every other game is the same
the new Spiderman is literally a batman game
and the new tomb raiders have many things the same

but they are good games, so it's good IMO

it looks like Breath of the Wild is going to be the new Arkham, in terms of influence

>>380239156
>and the new tomb raiders have many things the same
I'll give you instinct, but what else?

>>380239108
Mashing wasn't really the right way to put it but all you do is basically press a button + direction with minimal thought. It's not like the direction even needs to be carefully considered since the enemies spread out all over the place

>>380238883
>Variety of inputs to deploy a variety of moves and gadgets - dare I say a fucking button combo - to not only get around the enemy that defends against attacks they've already seen (holy shit like that one fight that was any good, but instead of being a shitty longass puzzle it's used to provide a challenge in fucking fights instead of batman's more health and needing to press A sometimes)
>Combos factor allow for button inputs to react to attacks from different angles in different ways instead of 'Y to punch anyone in 360 degree range'
>range weaponry does something instead of setting up cinematic kills
he does that to 8 guys

There are three levels of understanding Bam Ham combat:
>level 1
People who barely played the game, they think it's very easy just mach one button.
>level 2
People who played the game but largely ignored combat mechanics and think it gets pretty hard once you have to fight lots of big guys, electrified guys, knifey guys, and shielded guys.
>level 3
People who explored the combat upgrades and know that it's actually even easier than people at level 1 think.

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>There are people that think the Arkham games take any modicum of skill

lmao jesus christ

>>380239765
A modicum is a small quantity. It being easy means you do need a small quantity of skill.

So what's the problem?

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>>380237672
The Arkham games are terrible

You need to have a kind of rhythm to get a high combo, and I suck at it.

I always whiff a punch sooner or later.

Maybe I'm getting old and slow, I could never get highest rank on the harder challenge maps.

>>380239551
what the flying fuck am I typing I am way too tired for internet fights

>>380239551

>just put stuff in

ok

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>>380239881
I'd prefer if the Arkham games were well written and actually had challenging combat

>>380239886
>100% achievements on a game you don't like
You even went as far as getting all the riddler shit, lmfao you are full of shit my dude

>>380240074
That's nice. But they don't fit your criteria.
I was goint to say that its alright not to enjoy a game, but what even is the point.

>>380240131
Filenames kinda give it away.

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>>380240131
Finding the Riddler trophies is super fucking easy when they put it on your map

Maybe try playing these shitty games, yeah?

Asylum and City were cool
It's lke the effect Skyrim and Ubisoft games had on the industry, but at least they're good games

>>380239265
the map, the filler (items, relics...)
how you can move through the world using cables... in rise of the tomb raider, once you have the upgrades, you can move literally like batman; you are just missing the cape
the story is delivered through radio calls through the game
it is pretty obvious to me, but i don't think it is a bad thing at all
quite the contrary: i played both tombs happy as fuck, and would love more people to enjoy them as much as i do

>>380240304

theres still like 300 of them and they are easy to ignore my dude

i liked the games and even I didn't bother with over half of them

>>380240304
Goddamn man, that takes dedication. Do you feel the need to 100% every game you play, even if you don't like it?
Have a (you) for your trouble.

>>380237672
The point the OP is making is that while this game made a great Batman game the mechanics of it were shoved into other games without doing what made them work.

>>380240304
May I ask what you're trying to prove here? I guess you're going for "I completed the game 100% so I know what I'm talking about" but these combat challenges are literally the easiest part of the entire game

>>380240506
Compared to what? They're the only part of the game where you have to build your combo meter well to succeed, combat outside of them is even more brainless.

>>380240350
Plenty of games have done that though. I played Rise and never really noticed much similarities. It seems closer to AC than to BamHam is what I'm saying.

On the other hand, I played it without Instinct so I might have missed the connection unknowinginly.

>>380238124
But people do say the same about WoW and they're right.

>>380240427
I like Batman and I love buttonmashing - but both Arkham games (haven't played Knight) feature poorly told Batman stories and bad gameplay compared to things like Devil May Cry, The Warriors, etc

>>380240506
>but these combat challenges are literally the easiest part of the entire game

Thanks for proving my point

>>380240665
Compared to bossfights and early game fights where you don't have abilities yet
Hell, even compared to any Predator areas
I'm not in any way saying that the game is hard, I'm saying these combat maps are just "okay I already did these moves so now it's time to do this other move again"
>>380240761
>Thanks for proving my point
The point being that the combat is shit? Still no idea why you need that 100% completed combat challenge screenshot for that

>>380238504
how about counters that aren't just glorified attacks and just block your opponents attacks when you manage your timing

>>380235394
Yeah, it was pretty bad, but fist combat games besides a couple of CUHRAYZEE exceptions had limited potential. What i'd like to know is what game was truly behind the open world meme that ruined MGSV amongst many. I don't think it was FC3

>>380240846
>Compared to bossfights
Nah bullshit, mr Freeze aside those are practically impossible to fail unless you fall asleep, and the Freeze fight isn't even about combat. None of the early game combat encounters are as difficult as getting the best ranks on those challenge maps either, not that it's saying much.

>>380235394
the "good game is retroactively bad because it led to things I don't like" meme is the stupidest fucking shit. just stop.

>>380238984
Kind of agreed. I enjoyed all Arkham games and mostly don't regret that they were made the way they were, but I would love them to make more similar formula games with different DC characters

>>380240761
I feel that those games are better for the fanservice than for the storyline or really, the gameplay.
I have made the argument before, in different threads, that they are fairly cinematic. More involved than a walking simulator, but meant to show Batman at his best in their way. In and out of combat. Hence why they are comparatively easy and hold the player's hand.

Though I feel comparing DMC and BamHam is disingenuous. BamHam, at most, serves as an entry point in the spectacle fighter genre, if you can call it that.

>>380235394
>detective mode, inspector view, whatever, a.k.a. "we can't think of intuitive level design so we just put a flashing light on what you're supposed to interact with"
As opposed to straight up HUD doing the exact same, this is a non point.
>bamham crowd fighting style
Not used by almost anything, non-point
>stealth sections for dummies
Much better than the usual "stealth section in non-stealth game". And it manages to use the environment to attack enemies. Another non-point.
The dumbest part about your shitpost is how you take points away from this game just because some other studio decided to copy it.
And you used the word "devastating" without reason.
Go start an outrage from some other game, attention whore.

>>380241083
the freeze fight is the most braindead of them all.

i really dont understand why it is so adored

>>380239024

Why not automate less parts of the game and let the player learn how to be as badass as batman? Oh right, because then they might fail and then our consumer base might not feel validated or empowered constantly which is something we achieve by making every button the Awesome Button™.

>>380241076
Skyrim is first among the line because it drew in so many casuals who had never played an RPG before and were blown away by OMG I CAN LIKE TRAVEL ALL ACROSS THIS WORLD IT'S LIKE I'M LIVING ANOTHER LIFE WOW
I'd say Ubisoft open world games like FC3 just made it worse
>>380240882
That would actually help a bit because IIRC during a counter you're invincible but not during an attack

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>>380241118
>BamHam, at most, serves as an entry point in the spectacle fighter genre, if you can call it that.

That would maybe be right if the series got harder - but I find Arkham Asylum harder than Arkham City and I imagine Arkham Knight just got easier

Plus literally the only good stealth is the Joker DLC in AA (which you can mod into the PC version but it's hard as fuck)

>>380241083
Again, I'm not talking about the game being hard, I'm saying it's harder in relation. I actually got hit a few times in the course of the game, but I don't remember that happening on combat challenge maps
It's possible that I'm misremembering but combat challenges just drop you in the midst of the enemies and you get loads of points for combos and using gadgets, right?

>>380241258
But I'd say that there was real effort put into the Skyrim world at least. Far Cry amongst others is just a very boring, generic open world with nothing to do, besides the 30 second activities marked on your map

>>380235394
this is like shitting on re4 for all the over the shoulder games we got.

Fuck off.

>>380241474
Yes I'm talking in relation as well. Combat challenge difficulty doesn't come from getting hit but from keeping the combo going which takes a few tries, you may get hit or break your combo during the regular encounters but it doesn't matter there

>>380241479
Skyrim's world was samey all over the place (the slightly different biomes don't help the places inside each one to actually feel different) with samey dungeons strewn randomly throughout. Now I don't remember if the dungeons were actually copypasted but they may just as well have been.
Be honest, had you ever played an open world game with a handcrafted world when you played Skyrim?

>>380241409
Which is why I said, at the most.
AA is definitely clunkier, but I haven't played Knight, so I could not tell you.

>>380241256
Because its tagline was Be the Batman. Which you take to mean that you must learn all his tools, and the devs made it so that the player sees a well choregraphed fight.

The fact some people would want to see it made into a harder game does not mean the devs failed. Just different people seeking different things.