How are we 4 years into a generation with only two all time classics?

>>380023434
I've been wondering about that myself. How come this gen feels so devoid of games compared to the last one?

>bloodborne
lmao

>>380023563
lets have a bipartisan discussion here. if you don't believe bloodborne is a classic that's fine, but it furthers the question of why there are so few great exclusive original games.

let's not forget that bloodborne is basically dark souls and zelda is zelda but different.

>>380023434
Tfw you're absolutely right, yet this gen will be remembered for Destiny, since the scene is now in the hands of normaloids.

>>380024065
Oh, and I forgot Overwatch.

why come dark souls fans think rpgs should be action games?

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>Zelda
Fucking really?

So what are some actual all-time classics?

Bloodborne is pretty much a joke and Zelda was too easy and sparse to really be engaging. I'd imagine Dark Souls would qualify for the sheer autism it triggers, anything else post-2010 we can write into the canon?

>>380023541
name the all time classics of gen 7 pretty please

>>380024310
Because games should be fun. And moment to moment action in 3 is a lot more fun than moment to moment gameplay in 1.

>>380024772

>bloodborne
>pretty much a joke

I'm curious to see your reasoning on that. It's legitimately one of the few great games this gen, and it probably hits my top ten of all time. Personal taste aside, why do you think that it isn't?

Also, a few all-time classics:

OG Zelda
System Shock 2
Wizardry 8
Diablo 2
Tetris

>>380024904
Off the top of my head, gears1-3, halo 3, reach, Uncharted 1-3, TLoU, mario galaxy 1,2, STALKER SoC, Crysis 1, warhead, Oblivion, DeS and DaS

>>380023434
>BOTW
>a classic

I'm a Zelda fan and I think it's overrated trash and another disgrace to the series at large. Freedom of exploration isn't enough to make due for its shitty nonexistent story, music, laughable voice acting, stupid breakable weapon mechanics, annoying cooking mechanics, terrible half-dungeons, bland side characters, meaningless collect-athon quests and general lack of enemy or boss variety.

Bloodborne is indeed masterpiece-tier material though. Too bad it's better off as a standalone game without a sequel. That and the whole Soulsborne gameplay is starting to get a bit stale for FromSoft; I rather see something entirely different from them instead.

>>380025203
>gears1-3, halo 3, reach, Uncharted 1-3, TLoU, mario galaxy 1,2, STALKER SoC, Crysis 1, warhead, Oblivion, DeS and DaS
there's 2, maybe 3 worthwhile games in that list

>>380025189
Respectable list. I agree that Bloodborne is up there, probably within the top 3. The game is simply a masterpiece.

>>380025189
>why do you think that it isn't?
Mostly the world design (not level design, which was nice), aesthetic was off and ventured into corny territory (same with dialogues at times), poor story, graphics glitches / crashes / gameplay bugs. The gameplay itself was alright, then again it's pretty much just the Patented Dark Souls Formula with the speed bumped up and more rewarding of aggro. The whole thing is gaudy.

>OG Zelda
Nice
>System Shock 2
Double nice
>Wizardry 8
Never played
>Diablo 2
Eh
>Tetris
Triple nice

I don't know much about what makes something a classic but from my experience and talking to other people I would say

System Shock 2
Deus Ex
Dark Souls
Gen 2 Pokemon

>>380026748
You guys are embarrassing desu

>>380023702
>a very polite post for a shitty bait

Stop wasting your time.

>>380027693
Wait, I literally laughed when I read Bloodborne being listed as an all-time classic. Are you people fucking serious? This is considered bait now?

>>380027343
Hey, that's just like... Your opinion, man. But really, if you don't think Diablo 2 deserves that spot it makes me think you just don't like the type of dark fantasy that takes itself so seriously. I'm also the type of person that believes Berserk (the manga) is a masterpiece. If you delve into the Bloodborne themes and plot you might find yourself intrigued, as it has a lot more bearing on the real world than it first seems. I find it to be one of the most impressive adaptations of Lovecraftian themes, and on the other hand is rife with subdued Japanese political commentary.

>>380025994
Please, the only good GOW is the first one

>>380028283
Subdued Japanese political commentary? I love BB but I've never heard anything like this; care to explain or maybe show me some analyses?

>>380028283
>>380028510
I'm curious too.

>>380028510
Not the other Anon, but I can name a few on the top of my head: xenophobia of the Japanese, all the stuff about mercury and the allusions to mercury poisoning, and Bloodborne takes more on Japanese mythology than any of the souls game. The Vilebloods are based on 汚れ (kegare), as one example.

And yeah, I'm agreeing with the Anon. Bloodborne is pretty much a classic. The aesthetic being overly stylistic shouldn't come off as "corny" but rather an idealized, romanticized dream like version of the Victorian era that helps with the Bloodborne mood. The story is fine and I think it's better than the previous souls. I barely experience any glitches or bugs.

>>380028908
>Bloodborne takes more on Japanese mythology than any of the souls game. The Vilebloods are based on 汚れ (kegare), as one example.

Could you provide some more examples? I'm not TOO familiar with Japanese mythology but in my dozens of playthroughs I can't think of any, so...

>>380023434
I'd argue Mario Kart 8 is a classic at this point.

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>>380027849
Fine, so it's not bait.

Then tell us why you don't think this game doesn't deserve the "all-time classic" title? I would explain my reasoning on why it deserves, but my intense Miyazaki, Lovecraft and Berserk fanboyism won't allow me to be objective. Go ahead, I'm not asking this just to spite you, just try to be as objective and neutral as possible.

>>380028283
>you just don't like the type of dark fantasy that takes itself so seriously
No, the gameplay itself is just not my thing. Gear-based games aren't that fun.
>I'm also the type of person that believes Berserk (the manga) is a masterpiece.
because it is
>one of the most impressive adaptations of Lovecraftian themes
Which is disappointing. The entire point of cosmic horror is that you can somewhat intuit what is happening but that most of it is so complex or unintelligible that it's simply out of your league. Lovecraftian themes make for bad games because they're intentionally ambiguous and reflect a lack of control / influence from the main character, two things that video games typically try to eliminate (although as we know, the Soulsborne games have made a point to eschew the need for clarity in keeping much of the story up to interpretation). Unfortunately, Bloodborne (THE GAME THAT WOULD HAVE GAINED THE MOST FROM DOING EXACTLY THIS) Was the most up-front about the cosmic horror too-complex-to-comprehend-i-need-more-eyes-just-to-see-the-point shindig. Fucking infuriating.

Also,
>blood blood blood blood the blood the blood blood blood blood blood blood blood
Disappointing.

>>380029065
You can start off with jerks sans frontieres, a lore channel on youtube. Though it's less lore, and more of looking at the smallest details in Bloodborne and connecting them to real life stuff, and that's where my most knowledge of Japanese culture in connection to Bloodborne comes from, but there's other sources of course. His videos span from either 30 minutes to 1 hour, if you have the time.

>>380025203
>gears1-3
fucking trash

>halo 3, reach
fucking trash

>Uncharted 1-3
good, but not all time classics

>TLoU
ok

>mario galaxy 1,2
ok, pretty good

>STALKER SoC
fucking trash

>Crysis 1, warhead
overrated

>Oblivion
ok

>DeS and DaS
yeah, I agree

>>380029574
>then tell us why you don't think this game deserves

Fixed

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>>380023434
I watched a video on this subject recently. Basically all the publishers were caught unprepared because they thought the whole industry was going towards mobile trash, episodic content and freemium shovelware which is why there have been so many "remasters" filling in the gaps while they scrambled to put something AAA together afterall after the success of games like Bloodborne and the Witcher III

>>380024904
Just Cause 2 may have made it in as one of my favourite games of all time.

>>380028510
>>380028674
Okay so on the surface level there are some more obvious connections like the men becoming beasts because of their lust for power and all that jazz. But there's a lot, and you might seen a hint of this in Dark Souls too, of the corrupting influence of religion personified as the many categories of beasts. Miyazaki is taking the piss out of Christianity for the most part.

But really where it gets especially interesting is The Old Hunters DLC. This is one of the rare occurrences where From Software actually reveals that initial action that causes the rest of the story, the death of mother Kos.

Here's where the Japanese political commentary comes in. This is a very direct reference to corporate indifference to pollution in Japan, especially the incident in Minamata where for three decades the water was polluted with mercury, poisoning everyone in the vicinity. What the developers wanted to convey is Innsmouth = fishing hamlet = Minamata.

The repercussions are still felt today especially when it comes to marine life, but the rest of the world doesn't know much about it. You'll find that many other ideas stemmed from this, such as that of Quicksilver-- it's simply renamed mercury. And you've been ingesting it this whole time.

There are more themes and references I could touch upon but I think that's the major one to show there's a lot beneath the surface to this story.

>>380030290
Thank you. I pretty much knew based off playing these games that Miyazaki had a very negative opinion of religion and it's impacts, but the village we go to in the Old Hunters DLC being related to mercury poisoning in actual Japan just makes the story so much stronger for me.

In Bloodborne, it's obvious that Miyazaki takes an extremely oppositional role to people in power. Taking Ludwig as an example, we can see that Ludwig put forth absolute trust in his superiors, to the point where he couldn't adequately discern himself as to whether or not he was a good person; he was looking for the opinions of people that came afterwards to justify his actions, implying that he knew there was some wrongdoing but justified it through the ideal of "the greater good".

Anyway, I've lost my train of thought, but thank you.

DUDE LOVECRAFTIAN BRO

Stop. I really enjoyed[/spoiler] Lovecraft when I was 14, but you need to face facts that Bloodborne doesn't actually handle the themes of his mythos well outside of straight up aping them from the source material. Cosmic gods! Insanity! Fishermen! Curses! Dark! Edge!

It's the Stephen King of vidya. Neat, looks good, cool to think about, similar on the surface, but has the depth of a puddle.

For that matter, Lovecraft was a shitty writer. Great imagination, though.

>be objective
Lol.

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>>380030645
>>380030836
Jesus...

>>380030290
>Souls too, of the corrupting influence of religion personified as the many categories of beasts. Miyazaki is taking the piss out of Christianity for the most part.

So you're saying Bloodborne takes the age old anime trope of religion = bad (especially christianity) and you're trying to mask it as something more deep than that. Naruto tier symbolism.

>>380030836
>>380031042
>fix formatting
>still fucked up exactly the same
Alright then. Time for bed.

>>380030836
I'm just laying the obvious groundwork Anon... You think I like the game just because of that, and based all my opinions on it for the rest of the story? The rest of the post is also just surface level stuff, just slightly less obvious. There's more to it than that, just as I said. I heaved blood on my keyboard when you conflated Naruto themes with Bloodborne's.

>>380031775
Oh right I forgot to end my post with some cringe-worthy insult.

>>380031775
That wasn't me, Naruto is a bit outside my repertoire.
>You think I like the game just because of that
No, I just get annoyed when people bring that up like some shining example of how the game is good. The fundamental mechanics and storytelling mechanisms of the game are competent, which distracts from the fact that the Lovecraftian elements are hamfisted and they could probably just throw literally anything on top of their formula and it would work.

Although I don't even know if you're actually responding to my fucked-up posts because it's 5 in the morning, I haven't slept in two days, and I work in 10 hours.

Kill me.

>>380024310
>why come dark souls fans think rpgs should be

Actually, I'd just as much rather have RPGs in general copy everything else about Dark Soul's structure aside from the combat.

The ability to just go around and explore where you want as long as you can handle the enemies, regardless of whether you're at the 'appropriate' level or part of story, allowing you to go out of your way to do things in unorthodox orders that actually change how events play out or otherwise let you skip whole sections. NPCs that are all unique and interesting which you can freely interact with how you want yet who also don't waste your time with filler dialog or hour long cutscene sequences. Multiplayer interaction that lets you help or fuck with people in creative ways. Continuous play and constant auto-saving meaning everything you do can have consequences that can't be save-scummed. All of this is glorious and JRPGs should be ashamed for barely attempting anything like it for so many years. The real time action combat is just icing on the cake, along with its ability to maintain an aesthetic that western computer RPGs have never quite been able to match.


I've sat through 7 fucking hours of Persona 5 and the bloody thing still won't let me past the first dungeon. The contrast is so miserable I don't even know what to say. Why don't they get that whole fucking point of a Role-Playing-Game is freedom and the ability to explore its consequences?

>>380032642
>mechanics and storytelling mechanisms
THATS IT IM DONE

>>380032642
>>380032850
What's your favorite souls?

Hollow Knight was great in my opinion. It's a classic for me already, but I guess only AAA are allowed to be masterpieces.

>>380033000
Sleepy anon here. DaS.

>>380025189
Zelda is shit, but cool list.

Yes, literally all Zelda games and the whole franchise/universe in general are shit. Don't even try to discuss.

>>380033418
Mine too. Neat.

>>380029746
You're a fucking faggot

>>380033242
I haven't played it because of rumors of a Trojan

This gen is fucked.

I never understood how people don't view Bloodborne as one of the greatest games ever made. I can't even think of a game that did atmosphere, gameplay, storytelling, and boss fights as expertly as Bloodborne did.

>>380023434
Infinite Warfare's the best game released this gen. Best multiplayer easily, great game. Best COD ever made, fuck the memers.

>>380028283
Berserk stopped being a masterpiece after the Lost Children Arc.

>>380033598
Is this a joke or some advanced form of aussie shitposting?

I'd sat witcher 3 should be on that list, especially with the DLC (It's also one of the few games who did DLC right).

>>380023434
I don't think Bloodborne's a classic. Yeah sure, It's great, but It's still a spinoff to Dark Souls.

>>380034349
That's like saying no RPG can ever be a classic because it's a rip off of DND.

>>380032642
>>380031775
My bad I meant to quote:
>>380031263

I had two tabs open and was going to respond to you after responding to the former Naruto fanboy in another tab but I fucked up.

Your opinion I do respect though. I can see why the game just wasn't for you, in a sense.

I should mention I don't think the game is perfect. There are some problems I have with the combat though I do think it feels the most fluid of the Souls games, and I much prefer the smaller selection of trick weapons over the weapon arts system of DaS3 with all the copypasted movesets.

>>380023434
The worst part is that this e3 isn't showing any redemption at all : It's still filled with AAA casual garbage.
Look at the mess with the last AC for exemple :
I thought they were going to change the gameplay in a good way. Instead it's a pill of shit. That fucking combat is giving me cancer.

>>380034349
Bloodborne is an easier version of dark souls, so all the people who got stomped playing one of the dark souls games, can beat bloodborne instead. Makes it more appealing to the average gamer.

Still a really fun game though.

>>380034706
i dont even know how you can have this opinion....

>>380034223
I can see why you think that. Truly an entirely different direction was chosen for the rest of the story. But personally I think the Falcon of the Millennium Empire Arc is on the same tier after multiple rereads. I wish it was less JRPG-esque at times though. Fantasia I've yet to adjust to but I'm enjoying it.

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>>380023434
>all time classics
This is the only game which is going to/has stayed TRULY popular.

>>380034706
I was going to call you a shitposter and then I realized that I nicked all of the bosses in three or fewer tries. I guess it was easier for me because of the constant DEX builds and parrying from DaS and DaS II.

>>380035101
As i recall, you start bloodborne with 20 re-usable heath pots, life-leech attack when you get hurt, and a very fast paced combat move set.

Dark souls is harder and more punishing, especially the older ones.

>>380035581
i feel like you're projecting your previous experience with these kinds of games to bloodborne. sure, i start with the ability to have 20 health pots, but given that blood vials are a flat 40% of my life, i have at best 8 full heals, whereas estus in dark souls is often a full heal so i start with 10 full heals relatively easily. 20 estus are definitely more healing than 20 blood vials, too.

regardless i think bloodborne is more technically demanding than any souls game. you mention the fast paced combat but that means i need more button presses inherently...

>>380029746
Let me guess, you own a ps3, don't get me wrong, buy whatever console you enjoy, but why insult the games of the other console? To make yourself feel better?

But guys...what about Horizon Zero Dawn?? It's a spectacle to be remembered desu

>>380038098

>a spectacle to be remembered

Yeah as fucking trash

>>380029756
It did, update the game.

>>380038649
???But muh robot animal hunting, explain!!!

>>380035581
lets not forget that you have to stay on the move because unless you dump every point into vitality, most enemies will kill you in 2-3 hits, and getting hit mid-dodge or while sprinting will probably one-shot you

>>380039195
Yeah, I would love that too.

>>380039372
not that anon but i paid $80 for horizon and while it was graphically beautiful it was also extremely bland in terms of gameplay. theres no reason to use anything but the sharpshot bow and just dodge everything.

though i will admit, it was really fucking cool when i encountered the stormbird boss while just exploring around even though i wasnt even close to the quest that would have lead me there

>>380035834
You're probably not going to find the thing that gives you twenty estus of a first play through and Bloodborne isn't particularly demanding seeing as it always gives you too many second chances. Don't even have to manage stamina so it's not more demanding than dark souls seeing as you move slow in that game as well as your enemies

>>380030836

Stephen king of vidya is alan wake and it has by far less depth than bloodborne

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>>380023434
>shit in the wild
>all time classic

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First time playing Dark Souls, figured it might be the place to ask.
How the fuck do I get this piece of shit shiny (it's right at the beginning of Blighttown), I got everything else except this.
I've tried jumping like 15 times already, do I just need to git gud at it? Or is there some other way to it I'm too retarded to find?

>>380040929
Take off your heavy shit and jump

>>380040929
Also if that doesn't work look for a different way

>>380023434
BotW is gen 9, faggot.

>>380040929
Real answer, if you're playing on PC at above 30 fps, that jump might not be possible. Cap your framerate at 30 and stay at a light load, you should make it.

>>380040929
See that little plank sticking out next to your right foot? Run and jump off of that.

>>380029746
Strange that a PS3 owner would rate Oblivion okay, didn't that game run like crap for you?

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>>380041303
I finally made it.
Turned out to be just some shitty dweeb sword though.
>>380041942
I actually made it on 60 FPS (had to roll right when touching the wooden plank below), but that's a good point too, thanks.

>>380042594
Dark Souls really looks like shit for a 2001 game.

>>380023541
The standards of production are so high now that things have shrunk down to the big studios, studios commissioned by bigger companies, and indies.

>>380042918
Blighttown is not a very spectacular area 2bh (not to mention it uses shitty post processing to make errything dark), might be one of my non-favorites. It looks much better in some other places, not as good as DS2/3 tho of course.

>>380023434
Because Sony has a monopoly on the gaming market. Microsoft is a joke and Nintendo has left the console market and is focusing on a handheld hybrid. No need to innovate when people will buy Uncharted 45 and God of War 7.

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>>380029746
>gears1-3
>trash
Here I know you're a faggot

>Halo3-Reach
>fucking trash

Halo 3 was amazing, except for Reach

>Uncharted 1-3
>good, but not all time classics
The hell are you talking about? U2 was amazing and took the world by storm and made other companies copy it's style(which in turn ruined franchises, but that isn't U2's fault). U3 was equally amazing.

>TLoU
>ok
You agree with the movie being a classic but not uncharted....hmmmm

>mario galaxy 1,2
>ok, pretty good
Finally something you're not wrong in

>STALKER SoC
>fucking trash
wrong


The rest I can pretty much sum up with pic related

>>380043365
>Uncharted 45
Uncharted is retired tho.

>>380044105
Wrong, the next installment with strong wimin is coming out in August. Then there's the daughter which can also be used to reboot the series with a strong and independent fe-male.

>>380023434
Bloodborne is a good game but its way too overrated.

>BotW
>a mishmash of the worst modern gaming trends
>classic

What did OP mean by this?

>>380045254
unironically this desu

>>380045254
>its
Explain yourself.

>>380023434
you mean R6 Siege and Witcher 3

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>>380023434
>How are we 4 years into a generation with only one classic? (bloodborne)
also one americo-japanese game the rest of world doesn't give two shits about.

>>380023563
>zelda
lmao