Daily reminder that immersion is what is most important in video

Then let's ditch anything that's not in real time and first person

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>>379853146
Hey, sounds good to me. First person LoZ would probably be pretty cool.

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>>379853146
>it has to be first person to be immersive.

Watered-down immersion is not fun. Not being able to create your own character in an open world game while at the same time not having a well developed character to interact to the environment with is not fun.

Fuck Link and his silent ass. Let me create my own Hylian. In fact, let's go full autism and let me create a character of a different race if I want to. If I wanna roll around Hyrule as a fucking Goron, I should have that option.

>>379853014
HUDs are immersive.

>>379853396
You don't need to remove huds to have immersion either.

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>>379853014

That's why Witcher 3 allows you to disable all HUD elements and enjoy an immersive experience, unlike Breath of the Wild.

Witcher 3 > BotW and all other RPGs

>>379853428
Some good ideas.

>>379853487
How? Unless you're wearing something that justifies it, I don't see your point.

>>379853428
I feel this way about FO4.

It's better just not to customize the characters.

>>379853428
>why can't I roleplay in a series thats known for its established characters since the beginning of time
>>379853618
>good idea

>>379853507
No shit.

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>>379853507
Some HUDs are amazing. Pic related wouldn't be the same game without it.

I can't stand minimaps. I even prefer Bethesda's compass to them. Minimaps almost always just result me in me looking entirely at the map, and not at the world. Even in MGS with the soliton, you are basically playing a top down came with little sprites, and the world and graphics are just there to distract from the minimap.

>>379853618
Because it lets you know how the character is doing healthwise/staminawise since you can't actually feel it.

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What's immersive about this? It's just enjoyable.

>>379853014
>hearts on the top-left
wtf? Immersion broken...

>>379853754
Visual/audio indicators would be better, like hearing your heart beat faster, your breath get tighter, or blurry vision. As it is you can see Link getting too hot or cold, they should have done it with everything.

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>>379853706
I love when they literally include the HUD ingame somehow.

>>379853014
You're absolutely right

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>>379853681
>greentext

It already broke its own establishment by having full voice acting, being fully non-linear and open world. You're an idiot if you think Link and Zelda both have been in every single Zelda game.

>>379853014
Hitting someone with a metal sword designed for hitting things and having it shatter like your grandads hip breaks my immersion.
Digging through menues over and over again bringing the shallow combat to a halt breaks my immersion too.

>>379853957
Too vague. Is annoying. Encourages the death-spiral problem which is the shittiest game mechanic to deal with. Seeing Link have a different animation like sweating when its hot doesn't expressly inform the player of the issue, which is especially problematic when the character can feel the issue at hand. Especially when you have to be standing stock still to see the animation to begin with. Imagine running through a dungeon and your life starts going down for no reason. You never figure out that the area of the dungeon you're entering is insanely hot and needs fire protection without a hud element as Link can feel the heat but you cannot observe it without link's animation.

tl;dr you're a retard.

>>379854361
This.

>>379853715
>Even in MGS with the soliton

*especially in MGS

MGS1 and MGS2's radar it's the worst offender I can think of where thanks to the camera and the accuracy of the minimap giving you a pixel perfect real time update of your enemies' field of vision, you never want to look anywhere else

>>379853014
>abloo bloo I don't want my video games to look like video games
Go fuck yourself

>>379854485
>can't figure out that the area is hot, even when it would visually look that way with some kind of heat source present and the fact your hearts are going down
>I'm the retard
Okay buddy.

Standing in an area and then moving two feet to the right and all of a sudden freezing to death or bursting into flames breaks my immersion.

>>379853568
I like them both. Can't we like them both? This isn't like the Horizon thing where you could only like one or the other. Also fuck Horizon and any future identity politics garbage with strunk wimmunz leads

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>>379854693
I was hoping you'd be smart enough to infer that there is no visual indication of a "heat source", just that the dungeon itself was warmer than normal, but no. Let's hold the player's hand the whole time. Whenever it's hot, there HAS to be a fire. Interesting dungeon design? Nah fuck that draw some fire on the wall. An indication of different climates? Who needs THAT in the open world, just make sure you draw fire near the player, that will REALLY make them respect us as game designers for throwing away a source of information for the E-MERSHION.

>>379853014
Actually the fucking GAMEPLAY is the most important.

>>379853014
Immersion fags need to fuck off forever.

>>379855090
>Let's hold the player's hand the whole time.
But that's exactly what a HUD does, you colossal faggot. You're advocating for making the player have to think, yet you also want a fucking meter plastered on screen that directly gives you the information, more effortlessly than even a clear environmental or visual/audio cue does.

>>379855178
>I eat burgers just for the burger meat
t. you

>>379853014
Wind Waker had more immersion than BotW.

Actually, I had more fun sailing a vast ocean of nothing rather than doing 120 of the same theme puzzles over and over, or finding either: a) more useless weapons to break or throw; b) more koroks to expand my shit up so I can carry more useless stuff

>>379855408
>food analogy
Fatass

>>379855513
Not an argument.

>>379855408
>eating burgers for tasteless bread or vegetables.

Why not just get a salad?

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>>379855298
>But that's exactly what a HUD does, you colossal faggot.
No, actually it gives you another source of information that the character would logically have that is relevant to gameplay. It's up to the player to be smart enough to check it out as opposed to making sure there's a big visual indicator on screen near any source of heat at any time. There's a huge nuanced difference that I don't imagine you have enough brain cells left over to fully grasp. Therefore, I eagerly await your next reply that will inform me of how 'wrong' I am about a subject with which you have had no practice or hand in.

>>379855575
>it comes with cheese, lettuce, tomato, onions, pickles, and ketchup
>just give me the burger
>not even a bun?
>nah just put it in my hand
t. gameplayfags

>>379853014
>Daily reminder that immersion is what is most important in video games

I agree. But you're wrong that useful information being continuously streamed to the player is immersion breaking.

>>379855670
That's the Atkins diet, and it's more healthy for you.

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>>379853014
>if you disagree you are following a fad but the fad is immersion

Now who's guzzling cum OP?

>>379855565
>Not an argument.
not an argument

>>379855724
That's the Boring Faggot diet

>>379855086
nintendo games are for manchildren

>>379855787
No, eating your mom is a boring faggot diet. Which is why you and your dad are boring faggots.

Immersion is good. But shit story, gameplay, characters, world interaction and every fucking thing else that goes into a game can add or subtract from immersion.

>>379855086
No ones said you can't.
Anon just said Witcher 3 > BoTW.

Which is true.

Just because somethings not as good as another doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Just because Balders Gate II exists doesn't mean you can't like Arcanum or NWN2, right?

>>379855838
>projecting this hard
Go home kid, you lost this fight.

And now you're gonna argue about HUDs and similar crap as if immersion can be broken down into neat little components and the end result is made or broken by their inclusion or removal.

Nobody even likes /v/. Not even people who post here. Nobody wants to be around a bunch of angry kids with autism and superiority complexes.

>>379855408
1. You're a retard. OP also said "<thing> is the most important", not "<thing> is all that's needed"
2. In that food analogy following your logic, immersion would be :
>I eat burgers just for the atmosphere of the burger joint

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>>379853014
There's nothing more immersion breaking than a stamina bar that runs out in 15 seconds.
Even pic realted could probably run for 1 or 2 minutes before tiring.

>>379855916
>Projecting your projection
I'm not related to any fedora lords or faggots, so I don't know anything about your family life, homeslice.

Oh wow, who gives a shit about immersion. It's just a marketing buzzword.

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What an unflattering screenshot. How can you be immersed in a game with a more washed out flat looking world than was found 12 years ago on the fucking PS2.

>>379855643
>logically
I see, so you're an emotionally cold idiot who would prefer to receive data from a soulless graph or meter than pick up on sensory feedback and intuitively deduce the situation. Makes sense.

Define "immersion".

>>379854301
Sorry I didn't include tingle side games that literally no one gives a single fuck about. But even then it still proves my point because he's an established character already.

>>379853014
>baby skyrim
>immersive

pick one

>>379856151
For you, big guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Meanwhile, I've had enough of this thread. Enjoy your defeat.

>>379856048
Immersion would be the sensation of eating.

>>379855820
>games are for manchildren

No shit

>>379856127
it's a horribly-compressed gif, anon

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I agree, OP. I've turned the minimap off in the witcher 3 but you miss certain things by doing so.
Pic related, it's glorious.

>>379856152
The degree that we forget that it's just a game.

>>379856151
Saving also breaks the immersion, better get rid of that too.

>>379856168
>Link's Awakening
>Majora's Mask
>Oracle Games
>Phantom Hourglass
>Triforce Heroes

All of those games don't have Zelda in them. But keep grasping straws tho.

>>379856449
I do play Ironman pretty often. Sometimes it's past my threshold of patience though.

Fun is the most important thing and will always be, thats the reason why mobile shit candy games are so successful

>>379856427
That sounds like a symptom of mental illness.

>>379856613
Yeah, it's called autism.

Removing HUD doesn't fix how boring and lifeless BotW is.

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>>379853014
Immersion is the cancer killing video games.

Immersive games don't even want to be video games. They want to be experiences. Shallow experiences even, since gameplay takes a backseat.
Immersive video games are basically blueprints for the holodeck in Star Trek: something you walk into and then experience like youre part of it.
Its basically fancy term for "virtual theme park".
I don't play video games to visit a virtual theme park though.

>>379854301
>Legend of Zelda
>broke its own establishment by ... being fully non-linear and open world.

Holy shit, are you 12?

>>379856613
I can see how a casual would think that.

>>379856703
They're the same people who want vidya to become interactive movies.

>>379853014
true

ATMOSPHERE
IMMERSION
NON-LINEARITY

the most important things in the game, though it's an oversimplification that doesn't explain what is needed, say, to achieve immersion, like say, good audio engineering, no handholding or excessive HUD, a game that isn't streamlined to fuck, etc. i've been replaying GTAIV without the minimap, without GPS shit, simple reticle, camera zoomed in all the way and no blur, no bloom, no color filter+played around with the brightness & vibrance settings. it's pretty nice

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>>379856712
>are you 12?

Are you? Legend of Zelda was literally the only game in the series that followed that format until Breath of the Wild. All of the rest of them were linear.

>>379856995
Then keep it optional and stop trying to make it a mandatory thing.

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>>379853014
>immersion
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

FUNNY WAY TO SPELL "GAMEPLAY" FAGGOT

>>379856536
But they have Link, which you play as, which is an established character, which was the fucking point. Reread >>379853681 then kill yourself my man.

>>379856427
see >>379854640

>>379856703
It's also what's pushing it forward. Otherwise we'd still be playing repetitive arcade games like Space Invaders.

>>379857136
Neo-/v/ loves interactive movies these days.

>>379853428
Why are RPG cucks so autistic?

>>379853706
Fuck you. What? I'm not crying, you're crying. Fuck.

>>379857206
>provide a definition
>GO FUCK YOURSELF
k

>>379857259
Immersion is what's pushing for linear call of duty clones with two weapon limit and automatic health regeneration? Fascinating.

>>379857185
>established characterS
>plural

In which I focused on more than one character. You pick and choose my argument, I'll do the same to you, faggot.

Immersion through gameplay is patrician
Immersion through cutscenes and story is for reddit tier plebs

>>379857097
are you ok? i never said it should be mandatory...yet

it should be mandatory because the HUD and handholding shit is the result of focus testing the game on retards and incorporating that shit design mentality into the game.

you can't have fun with a game that assumes you're retarded, or at least i can't. if you can, congratulations, you are the target audience

Is immersion basically just a fancy word for "interesting"?

>>379857401
>Make a retarded thread
>Get called a retard
Seems fine to me

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>>379856703

>>379857442
As above, so below. It is responsible for shitty things like walking sims, it's also responsible for the good things like games with beautiful art direction, full fledged stories and environments to create a sense of adventure and progress, etc. Otherwise games would be 2D, monochrome, and purely based on increasing a number score still, with no environments or any world design to speak of.

>>379857532
Knowing how much health you have left is hand holding? Give me a break.

>>379857341
>"I love white bread sandwiches. That's a slice of white bread in between two slices of white bread!"

>>379857501
>grasping this hard
AND EVEN THEN THOSE GAMES HAVE CHARACTERS THAT ARE IN OTHER ZELDA GAMES. ZELDA AND LINK ARE NOT THE ONLY TWO ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS

KILL

YOUR

SELF

>>379856703
>Games can't be immersive and have solid gameplay

>>379857925
You have to define immersive first before it can be it.

>>379856703
>Immersive games don't even want to be video games. They want to be experiences. Shallow experiences even, since gameplay takes a backseat.
/thread

>>379857889
Link and Zelda are the only two "established" characters who appear in most games. Not even Ganon shows up in most of them. You're only deconstructing your own argument here.

>>379857620
How fucking triggered are you, son? Christ.

>>379857545
No, though it is very, very distantly related to it. Immersion is the capacity of the game to convince your brain to forget about your actual surroundings and condition and convince itself that the fiction the game provides is "real". It is a mixture of specific type of attention, focus, suspension of disbelief...
Of course it's much easier to achieve immersion if you can capture the players interest, but it's not all that is needed to achieve it.

>>379856703
This has to be some of the dumbest shit I've seen on this board in all my seven years I've been here. There is really no end to the stupidity people will persue to be contrarian and justify their own stupid shitty attitudes, is there?

>>379858114
Not an argument :^)

>>379857531
Immersion through all of it is true patrician.

>>379858148
Let's go all the way and have no saving, one life, and no continues so you can truly feel like it's real and not a game.

>>379858360
Not that guy, but taking it to its logical extreme doesn't render the desire invalid. Obviously there is a limit, otherwise it stops being enjoyable. Same goes for gameplay: all developers could just make the AI so incredibly fast and precise that it's impossible for the player to win, but that wouldn't be enjoyable at all. Balance is key in all things.

>>379858000
>/thread
This is just kinda beyond sad.

>>379858360
Not really, that is not going to necessarily work. I mean permadeath can be used (and is - in some games) to enhance immersion, but it can also pretty easily break it too. As for no continues: that is just going to end the experience prematurely, and it's still not going to feel any more real because it still IS a game. It's actually more likely that people will just care less about it.

>>379858665
your kinda beyond sad

>>379857779
never said that. HUD should be minimalist. if a game manages to not have it, great. it's about immersion. for example, in RE 2002, when you're hurt, your idle/walking animation changes, and opening the stat menu shows your general health condition (green, yellow, red). you can also only see your ammo or reload in this menu. the less information you give the player in regards to this, the more familiarized he will get with the game's systems while playing. like with my example, when driving in GTA IV i look at the fucking game and memorize the streets and only look at the pause map occasionally, instead of looking at the mini-map in the bottom right telling me everything. the simple reticle option doesn't tell me how much health enemies have and it's actually a lot more clean and easy to shoot people where you want, and it's a great incentive to pay attention, like seeing if a downed enemy will get back up or not and how generally it's great to have preventative measures like just shooting them all in the head when they're down.

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You idiots do know you can have both immersion and good gameplay right?

>>379858998
Yes, a few people in the thread have argued this.

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>>379858998
NO. FUCK YOU.

>>379856703
Immersive games don't have to be walking sims or games with only linearity. I don't see how that's a requirement.
>whynotboth.jpg

>>379853014
Ditch hearts as well, turn the screen red/blurry/black and white when you take damage, recover with autoheal.
You wouldn't look up at the top-left to check on your vitality every few seconds in a real life battle right?

Also fuck minimaps, select should bring up the full map and a compass so you can figure out where you are by looking for landmarks.

>>379858998
Never happened. If you're arguing that people can immerse themselves into games with good gameplay, it would be true.
But no game with focus on immersion ever had good gameplay or ever will.

>>379853014
Removing the HUD doesn't make the game more immersive

>>379853014
why post botw then when every 15 seconds in combat you have to pause all action to switch to the next weapon you want to use completely breaking all imersion.

>>379859973
Wrong. Plenty of games like this exist. RE1 in 1996 was this, just as a random example.

>>379858998
Certainly but it's very rare. It's also up to personal interpretation though. Someone might think a game is as immersive as it gets but some turbo autist is going spaz out because the north arrow on the minimap is locked or some silly shit.

>>379856127
Hahaha. Comparing SotC to BotW is like comparing a cardboard cutout of a car to an actual car. SotC blows compared to any Zelda game.

>>379860372
>SoTC blows any Zelda game out of the water

FTFY

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>>379853428

>If I wanna roll around Hyrule as a fucking Goron, I should have that option.

Then play Majora's Mask:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds7bFUVEr54

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playing this in 5.1 audio with mods is great

its kinda a shame how you have to switch characters constantly though, even though its fun sometimes, idk i havent played that much yet

>>379859973
>But no game with focus on immersion ever had good gameplay or ever will.
So... System Shock, Deus Ex, Thief or Gothic never happened? Good to know! I always suspected they were just a product of some kind of weird collective hallucination.

>>379853014
I dont think Zelda was immersive at all, it was just quiet and boring. The ugliness also ruined it.

>>379860372
Shame breath of the wild is a worse game with padded out repetition.