Is it true that Bayonetta is the strongest character? Also,

>>379849776
no

bayonetta hasnt been in a top 8 for the last 5 tournament.

People figured out the Bayo meta

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>>379849776

>>379849776
While she's busted, so are Diddy and Cloud. She doesn't straight out break the game, but she's overwhelming if you don't know how to handle her. Or if you use a shitter character like Ganondorf.

>>379849776
Bayonetta is an awfully designed Smash character that can only win cheaply, but she's not the best in the game.

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The one thing Smash Switch needs.

Wolf, ICs, and Inklings would be nice though.

>>379850749
>Snake
>Issac/Felix
>Ray MkII/III
>Ridley
>Ice Climbers
>K. Rool

If they added any two of these-- one, if it's Issac or Felix-- I'd buy it.

>>379849776
>Ganondorf
>F Tier

remember when people said Marth was shit

No because we're getting 64 HD

>>379851203
Yeah, he should be lower.

>>379851341
He still is shit, most other characters are shittier

>>379849776

I still think Cloud needs to get nerf'd. I don't even know in what way, but I feel like he's got dozens more safe options than the rest of the cast combined.

>>379851480
t. FG shitter

>>379849776
>Also, it's pretty crazy to think that we have a game that has Bayonetta, Cloud, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu and Pac-Man all in one.
If I told my past self this I would have never believed myself

video games sure have come a long way

>>379849776

What if everyone from D to F got buffed without changing anyone else?

>>379851858
Then most of them would still be D while a few would be C or B at best.

>>379849913
That's cause diddy is such a good all rounder and has amazing utility (Banana), Shiek is able to space, punish and reach for attacks other characters aren't able too, Cloud outranges most of the meta, anything at B tier struggles to punish her small faults, powerful space and poke game and a single mess up from them results in a heavy punish from Bayo, she's not powerful against a good player playing a good character, but she's powerful against most of the lower roster because of how heavy they rely on small but effective things that make them great that are simple canceled or way too risky for Bayo.

>>379849776
>Mewtwo in A
I distinctly remember Mewtwo being awful. What happened? Haven't played since last DLC released.

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Nah the Sm4sh competitive community had a lot of rosterfagging in it because the hype train was still going when the game first came out and for about a year while the meta was beginning. She was the last character so rosterfags have a chip on their shoulder over her, and since some of them are in places of power in the meta of Sm4sh they can influence it as they want instead of letting it happen honestly.
She's good, but especially after her nerfs executing her at a high level at all times is difficult and people understand how to counter her now, she's not far and away the best character like Smash autists claim.

Cloud is significantly more egregious because he allows for low player skill to result in top tier output.

>>379852520

Got buffed movement speed and less endlag, becoming a monster.

>>379852520
Mewtwo has been a top threat for a while. Not so much now I suppose, haven't been checking tourney shit but he's definetly a much better character than he was before thanks to patches.

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>>379852656
>>379852664
>played mewtwo in melee despite everything
>mfw over a decade of patience is being rewarded
If only I could ever pull myself away from Roy and Bayo.

>>379852808

>Playing Roy.

All I want is for Wolf to be back.

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>>379852963
I do great with roy and genuinely can't fathom his location on the tier list.
He's also one of the only characters I can just go all out offensive with

>>379851341

He was, patches happened

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Who's ready for the entire Sm4sh meta to be transferred to shitty tablets that we wont be able to get our hands on because of production being throttled for maybe 2 characters and the stages from both versions?

I'm seriously fucking praying that Smash Switch is just identical to the WiiU version. Or that some miracle happens and that Sakurai's rule about 3DS and WiiU having identical rosters and gameplay is extended to any future Switch version.

>>379851091
they took away Isaac's assist trophy and I was really hoping that it was because he was planned as a potential character. Biggest gaming related letdown of the last 5 years

>>379853302
>tfw I'm waiting for Switchax
>to use my Gamecube adapter for Smash Deluxe

>>379853530
Why? It'll most likely be supported. Pokken, like Smash, was also developed by Bamco, and supports the Wii U Pokken controller.

>>379853095

His gimmick exists in complete opposition with his nature as a sword character, so for anyone with some minimal understanding of spacing Roy hits are like slaps from a baby and going all in denies any range advantage from having a disjointed hitbox.

Also he's worst lord and was only brought back because of huge melee nostalgiafags who never played his game. I'm no space furfag, but even Wolf had a better case for returning

>oh no! Bayonetta managed to press down b before you landed a hit! Now she gets to kill you at 40% with no effort whatsoever!
I was extremely hyped for Bayo but she ended up being such a retarded character. She's designed to be a combo heavy character but then they also gave her the strongest counter in the game

>>379853749
Yeah that's good but with Switchax, I'll be able to play all Switch games with my Gamecube controller.
So I won't have to buy Pro controller or whatever at 70€.

>>379849776
>Ryu is better than Mewtwo and ZSS
>Marth is also better than Mewtwo and Rosalina
>Mario isn't top 6.
>Lucina and Falcon are higher than that. >Villager is not that good of a character, he's just carried by Ranai.
>Corrin is way too high.
>Donkey Kong should be higher than Bowser and in B tier, he's literally just Bowser but better. >Yoshi sucks, Pit, Lucas, Robin and R.O.B are all better than him.

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>>379853749
>It'll most likely be supported
>WiiU supports 3 generations of controller hardware
>Switch supports 1 gen of controller hardware and it's 20 dollars more expensive than the industry standard for no reason
You're gonna buy a new adapter for double the price and thank Kimishima for the opportunity to do so.

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>>379849776
All the paywall characters are top tier... wow really makes you etc etc. guess it's okay, it is nintendo after all.

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>go on for glory after not playing for about a year
>pick wario
>other guy picks bayo
>get dragged off the top of the screen twice
>taunts
>quit
>turn off wii u

>>379854263

>all

Take a look at Fire Marth and Blonde Ness, Scaly Marth to a lesser extent as well.

>>379854263
>Paywall characters
Roy is shit, Corrin is shit.

>>379854263
Roy, Lucas and Corrin are all mediocre.

It's funny that Lucas is lower tier than Ness despite having better combos, just because of Ness' backthrow and bair

>>379849776
>>379849776

>That steady rise from Fox and Marth in the tiers

Worriedlaughter.jpg

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>Lucina that high
>What is Zero bandwagoning

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>>379854263
>Top tier is half DLC and half base game
>Bayonetta is "theoretical" top tier but never shows up in execution
>3:1 base game to dlc ratio in A tier
>10:1 base game to dlc ratio in B tier
>DLC characters in C and E tier
This has always been the most retarded opinion.

>>379854449
you're shit

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>>379854675
No amount of number nerfing can stop a good kit of moves.

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WhERe aRE her BUffS?

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>>379849776
>tfw

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>Combo heavy/Deathtouch character
>Rapid jab that does 19% that's impossible to DI out of
>Large disjointed hitboxes
>Best recovery in the game
>Best edgeguarder in the game
>The only character in the game that can actually ignore all of the measures put in to put a stop to planking and successfully do it anyways
>The best counter in the game that's also the hardest to punish
>frame 1 airdodge

Why was this character allowed?

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>>379855071

>>379855071
She has a bit of landing lag if she spams 9999 moves in the air so it's okay XD

>>379854945
unless you consider hitbox size to be part of number nerfing. I don't know for certain if Nintendo adjusted hitboxes over the patch history, but I don't see marth ever getting to top tier in smash 4. Cloud is better than him in just about every way.

>>379855225
You can get rid of it if you use a special move right before you land.

>>379855070
>still gives him the fist bump
sportsmanship is godliness

>>379855270
Yeah but Marth is still trucking along in A, hardly irrelevant

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>>379855071
Forgot the best one.

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>>379855071
>>379855209
>>379855225
>>379855640
>Never wins anything
>S-so overpowered
When will people stop being devastated?

Also those hitbox lines are like 1 damage with no knockback.

>>379855640
Yeah I realized after that I forgot her obnoxious Nair. Thanks for the save, anon.

>Sex kick that lasts as long as you hold the A button

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS ALLOWED

>>379855754
I don't really care that much about tourney viability, I just hate playing against Bayonetta. Most of the top tiers are incredibly unfun to play against. That's what I get for maining Samus and Lucas I guess.

>>379855270
They have adjusted hitboxes.
With Marth in particular, early one his fair had less range than Sheik's one. With the current patch, Marth's fair has more range.

>>379855070

How ?

>>379855953
The playerbase has clearly adapted to her anon, no need to rail against her for a user end issue

>>379856031
That attack consists of many hitboxes and one of them sends the opponent flying abnormally high. I don't remember why and you're normally not supposed to hit just that one hitbox, if the others also connect that doesn't happen. Mario's up b has the same effect, I think you need to land just the first split second of his up b and whiff the rest.

>>379856031
A lot of multihit moves have very weird knockback on the first hit, to ensure the opponent is launched into the other hits.
Samus's up B has very high knockback on the first hit, which is normally not noticed as the other hits connect. That webm shows someone getting hit only by the first hit of the attack, plus the effects of rage.

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>>379855070

>>379856312
I think it has to do with the first hit is supposed to send them in a trajectory to follow Mario/Samus during the attack, the second hit of the attack will cancel the knockback. It's wonky exploitable design

>>379855071
>>Rapid jab that does 19% that's impossible to DI out of

out of all the things, this pisses me off the most, I always try to wiggle out of it but it just pulls me in further, it's so infuriating

>>379855754
You don't have to win tournaments to be the best character in the game. Consider that in Smash 4 90% of the major tournaments are won by either a Diddy Kong, Mario or Marth player. None of those characters are the best in the game, hell you could make a case none of them are top 5.

>>379856031
Smash 4 has hitboxes that do extremely high amounts of knockback, but they're supposed to link in the finishing move. The key word is "supposed" here, you can hit the move at a certain angle to get one of these high hitstun high knockback moves on purpose. Or in the case of Samus here simply have so much rage that the move no longer works properly. ZSS can do the exact same thing, in fact when you see ZSS kill off the top without seeing the finisher this is probably what she did.

Fox's Forward Air-Footstool works similarly, Fox actually falls so fast he can fastfall and get out of the move before the finisher leaving his opponent in a ton of hitstun, then he can footstool them to finish it.

>>379856089
yeah, the playerbase of tournament players who play the characters that can beat her.

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>>379856526
>You don't have to win tournaments to be the best character in the game.

>>379850749
>Wolf, ICs, and Inklings would be nice though.
I'd throw Wonder Red in there too. He absolutely deserves to be in.

>>379856612
So why did you ignore the second sentence, that points out that the majority of Smash 4 tournaments are won by characters that aren't the best in the game?

Hell this is even true for Melee and no one is trying to say Jigglypuff or Peach are the best players in the game. Hbox wins Melee majors using only Puff and Armada wins them using primarily Peach and sometimes only Peach if he doesn't face the players he will use Fox for.

>>379856672
Also, damn, I haven't paid attention to the competitive scene or tier lists for Smash 4 in a minute. Marth is really that good now? Fuck me.

>>379855070
>all those 20 years males happy for a kids' video game
This is good because they will not have kids and maybe there well be less idiots in the world

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>>379856835
You can be a good or even mediocre character that wins tournaments a lot. There's that one Yoshi player in melee, probably somebody in Smash who does similar, etc. But those characters are still lower tiers because of where the average performance for that character sits.
You cannot be "The best character in the game" with zero realized competitive viability. Bayonetta doesn't win tournaments. She occasionally pulls off a combo that produces salt, that's not grounds for her to be the best character in the game, results are.

>>379857232
I have 20 wives and 68 kids and play Smash 4 at a professional level so fuck off kid

>>379849776
>Fucking mega man nearly won EVO last year
>only ranked B
Fucking smash autists, every damn time.

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>>379849776
>Roy in E-tier
It hurts bros

>>379857092
He got really good buffs in the 1.1.4 patch, tipper hitboxes got bigger & damage buffs on some key moves.

>>379857573
So who do you think the best character in Smash 4 is, then?

Cloud?
>Doesn't win tournaments

Sheik?
>Hasn't won a tournament since she was nerfed and ZeRo stopped playing her

I'm trying to point out what's wrong with putting too much emphasis on results, especially in a game like Smash 4 that's inconsistent as fuck and results are heavily reliant on bracket luck. Case in point: Dabuz won Civil War because of the best bracket luck of all time, all of the players that could have beaten him were either upset early(ZeRo, Leo and Ally) or weren't on his side of the bracket(Mr.R and Larry Lurr).

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>>379857610
Smash 4 has a lot wider viability. I think it has more emphasis on reads than matchups compared to Melee Brawl or Project M, which works as an equalizer of sorts. But I'm no expert so don't quote me on it.

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>>379856672
>He absolutely deserves to be in.

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>>379858176
>especially in a game like Smash 4 that's inconsistent as fuck
You've answered your own question. In execution Smash 4 doesn't have a definitive best character right now.

>>379858229
That's about right. Having a good tournament result in Smash 4 is almost as reliant on bracket luck as it is how good you're playing on that certain day.

The whole game is shit because its based on not doing anything, the attacker is always at a disadvantage. The best character theoretically is sheik because he can avoid playing the game for longer than other characters, AND chase opponents that try to outcamp him.

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>>379858247
>Being a frogposter
My 50 year old mother knows about pepe. By name. Pepe the internet frog. She found out about him "on the twitter"

It is literally a normie meme

>>379858591
>The best character theoretically is sheik

But she hasn't won a tournament since she got nerfed.

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>>379858461
>Say that Smash 4 has an emphasis on reading your opponents moves
>Correct. Smash 4 results are random
Maybe you just suck?

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>>379849776
Lucina isn't shit! Lucina can win! I'm proud to main Lucina!

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>>379858858
>Play against a Lucina main
>Can't get it out of the back of my mind that they're one of these autists who literally worships her online behind closed doors
>Lose the match because I can't focus
Only reasons she's b tier is her mind games meta.

>>379858745
>Smash 4 results are random

Smash 4 results are completely random, all of the top players prefer Brawl because it was clear they were the best in the game and the only threats were other top players. Smash 4 has a considerably lower skill gap and is more heavily based on what MU you're playing. ZeRo lost to a Zero Suit Samus player who isn't even first in his region a few months ago. That would NEVER happen in Brawl or Melee.

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>>379849776
>Mewtwo
>A tier

Did I miss something?
Mewtwo is dog shit bad, I haven't seen a good players of him.
Mewtwo is a joke online, and easy to punish.

>>379858719
that's because people aren't at that level yet. People still play Wii Fit Trainer and Falco and win.

It just means the game hasn't evolved yet to create unplayable characters.

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>>379858604
Sure thing cuck

>>379856672

When will people understand that there's just no way to properly implement Blunder Red's playstyle into Smash?

>Lucas will never be good

Oh well.

>>379859058
Mewtwo got buffed several times throughout the games life. The last one made him as fast as Sheik on the ground. He's generally seen as a glass cannon character. He also won a major tournament last year, Pound 5.

His best player is starting to play him a little less now, though. Using Bayonetta for certain matchups.

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>my nigga Robin so low
Shit list

>>379859127
>People still play Wii Fit Trainer and Falco and win

I mean, unless that tournament doesn't have any top players at it. I suppose those characters can also win locals, but you could probably win a local with Roy in Melee so..

>>379859360

I really love Robin's design, I can't believe it's from that ugly as sin game Awakening.

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Why is Smash so unbalanced? With how much smaller the movesets are in smash and how many shared animations and shit they are shouldn't it be way easier to balance the cast then a traditional fighting game?

And don't give me >well it's nintendo and is also aimed at casuals so that's why; fucking pokken is a pokemon themed game and is still super well designed for competitive play and is very balanced despite that

>>379859461

Well there's also the fact that barey anyone plays those characters and anyone who could release their full potential would rather pick up tried and true top tiers.

Like, the only person who I hear wins with Wii Fit is that John Numbers guy, who apparently has a thing with trannies.

>>379859360
>most fun zoner in smash to play as with item shenanigans to boot
>is hard countered by everyone on top tier
man I just love playing as robin, too bad that the rushdown meta is so bad for him

>>379859461
My point is the overall skill level in smash 4 is like Melee in 2007.

A random distribution of skill levels in players means any character can win, add on to that the common situation of a last hit wins, when both characters are last stock high percent, and the results are even more volatile.

The best way to play seems to be a hit and run style, but people dont have the patience to fully commit to playing that way, for obvious reasons. Look at sonic.

>>379859805
>pokken
>competitive

braixen is so fucking stupid

>>379859805
characters are made intentionally bad like dr.mario, jiggly, palutena and little mac. And some are made good on purpose like bayonetta, cloud, sonic and mario.

It's one guy who does the balancing and he picks favorites and doesn't consider it competitive

>>379859805
sm4sh is actually more balanced than its predecesors thanks to patches fixing SOME problems, but a fighting game with that rooster size is always gonna have tiers, at least there are no single character tiers

>balance being something to strive for
>perfect balance means the game is good

haha, you are like a child.

>>379860512
Jiggs is actually just a character that's very hard to make "good". She's either going to be busted or she's going to be shit.

Also yes she's busted in Melee, there's just a bunch of other busted shit in Melee along with her that mitigates the effect.

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>>379859805
The gap between S A and B in Pokken is a lot more drastic than in Smash 4.

A and B tiers win tournaments more than S tier characters in Sm4sh at the moment. But the performance gap between Braixen and the Mewtwos and Gardevoir is fucking unreal.

>>379860321
Braixen got nerfed hard in the last arcade patch, she'll be low A tier at best in DX

>>379860809
Good balance doesn't automatically make a game good, but bad balance is always a strike against an otherwise good game.

if this game gets to Switch, too, it's literally on 3 consoles, it will be the first Smash game to get released in two console generations and I wonder if this is maybe marks the point where they just stop making new games alltogether and just keep expanding the current one and rereleasing it on the new platforms kinda like Capcom did with Street Fighter 2 for example

>>379861027
Its a strike only for bad players, which I guess matters to some extent.

>>379855270
Cloud was the best thing that ever happened to Smash Bros

>>379861024
It's actually the opposite, anon. Every character in pokken is super viable competitively and pretty much the entire competitive community agrees on it.

>>379861241
I'm not even sure what the implication here is

>>379860883
just make her hit like yoshi and move like him, give her a stronger rest that does star ko

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>>379856672
It's a far off dream that I utterly share with you, anon.

>women
>strong
lol

>>379851472
I've been winning against many Bayos with Ganon

I don't understand this shit list

>>379861692
You're playing against shitty Bayos then.
A good Bayo can't even be touched by a Dorf.

>>379861409
Smash 4 is a game that is designed to be uncompetitive but trick the fans into thinking it is, to ensure they play it.

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Holy shit I didn't know Mewtwo got buffed. Looks like I'm coming back to Smash.

>>379858858
Lucina is just Marth for people too braindead to properly space for tippers.

>>379861794
just like a palutena couldn't beat a diddy?

>>379858080
As long as Ryu and ZSS are both viable,
I don't care.

Shame that Ness isn't as high as he used to be though.

>>379859171
His style of gameplay could incorporate drawing Unite Morphs by holding down B and having to draw the shapes that way.

>>379859058
>do an attack
>oponent crouches to evade it
>"wtf?!?!?!?! this character is too slow!?!?!?!?!"
I guess ZSS is also slow as fuck because Jiggs can crouch his grab.

>>379863481
>his

Samus is trans?!?

>>379859307
he is good

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What if Ike's grounded aether was a shieldbreaker? Like Bowser's down B when it gets the two hits

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>peach actually not mid for once

did she get buffs? I've not played smash in ages

>>379851539
he absolutely needs a nerf.

https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

>>379864192
That crown move is destructive in 4 iirc

>>379864192
Mostly just people advancing her meta and making everyone realize she's pretty good.

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>>379849776
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAfkyxYoTRk

>>379849776
>Do you think Smash DX on the Switch will add even more?
Melee probably won't be ported to switch.
:^)

>>379849776
>yoshi that low
Is this a joke

>>379866972

Rev up some results because I sure can't see any.

>>379855070
>>379856440
This fucking upsets me beyond belief
I know that most games have this kind of bullshit in them but I feel like Smash 4 has significantly more than other games

>>379864996
Not him but I remember trying her out in 4 after more or less ignoring her in Melee and I found her fair to be VERY satisfying to use. Only scrubs like me abuse the shit out of it but combo-ing into it repeatedly and K.O.ing with it was always extremely satisfying. The sound effect that shit made was amazing.

Shit, if she's been buffed, I might have to pick her up, although it's been awhile since I've played.

>>379855070

Rage should stop at 100%, it does have its uses but that's just dumb.

>>379851480
I bet you also think Lucina is more """consistent"""

>>379849776
>7 different tiers
what's the difference between D tier and E tier, it seems kind of redundant.

>>379852520
patches, baby

>>379854945
This is true. Both Ike and Marth were buffed like hell throughout the patches, but Marth is high tier because he fundamentally has a better moveset

>>379849776
When did marth and mewtwo get so gud

>>379849776
>Mario and Sonic in the same tier right next to each other
This fits so goddamn much

>>379854053
>Donkey Kong should be higher than Bowser and in B tier, he's literally just Bowser but better
What makes DK better than Bowser? They're generally similar but Bowser has a much easier time landing and a great command grab.

>>379867272
It's just Smash, dude. This series is full of a bunch of really dumb shit.

If you think ladder combos are dumb in Smash 4 then oh boy, stay away from 64. The game of deathtouch and ladder combos. Shine in Melee is actually a really really stupid move, but the game is so old at this point I think people just forgive it. It's also got Jigglypuff, Peach downsmash, Sheik chaingrabs, Ice Climbers and Falcon being able to combo whatever the hell he wants in to knee. Brawl's got chaingrabs out the ass, characters like Dedede and Falco invalidating everyone below them. Also Ice Climbers and Meta Knight.

>>379868010
they been buffed to the heavens via patches

>>379868323
What were the marth buffs?

>>379859805

Smash has more competitively viable characters than Pokkens entire roster.

>>379868287
brawl tripping was one of the most tiltin and funniest things ever
so many matches with my friends decided by someone randomly falling on their ass
i kinda miss it but i understand why they removed it

>>379868508

Mostly more range, with all the additonal range being included as a tipper. Also some endlag cuts.

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>play bayo in FG
>have no clue how to infinite combo, play exclusively for downsmash edgeguards
>mfw half the time people just leave the second they see bayo pop up thinking I'm competent.

>>379868201
Bowser has an easier time landing but Ding Dong is just better than Bowser's BowWow or Koo Pah or whatever the hell people call it. Also DK's strong hit of uptilt is stupid strong. I've seen it kill Sheik at 80 with Max rage DK.

>>379855785
Thats how it works in her game. Also bullets dont even move other characters and deal like 1% damage. Its even weaker after the first spin and like every other of her moves it has no priority. Be assblasted about the combos if you want but not for this

>>379849776

Bayonetta has shitty buttons but she kills super easy.

She's not nearly as strong as characters like Cloud with retarded strong buttons that have to put in a little bit of work to get KOs.

I just want shorter blast zones in this bitch.

>>379869071
>Bayonetta
>shitty buttons
Like everything she has aside from her Smash attacks are god-like.

>>379868287
I know, I just feel like Smash 4 has a lot more "haha you died super early that wasn't to an off-stage spike" than other Smash games.
>oh boy, stay away from 64
64 is underrated as fuck, pretty much every character is decently viable and has a ton of combos at their disposal.

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>>379869071
I'll call bullshit. Bayonetta players has to have some idea of what they're doing or at least position themselves correctly. Cloud is the definition of easy mode with his giant hitboxes, non-existent move recovery, ability to CHARGE limit, forcing you to come to him and always having an advantage due to that.

>>379869405

I'm arguing that Bayonetta isn't S-tier because her moves actually have drawbacks while Cloud essentially doesn't have a weakness except for allegedly shiity recovery. But considering it's Smash 4 and shitty recovery in this game is like being fucking Jigglypuff in Melee it's an irrelevant comparison.

>>379869405

Don't forget that some of those colossal hitboxes are also LASTING hitboxes

>>379869607
Man my reading comprehension is off the charts today.

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>>379869337
>Everybody counts on Bayonetta not using smash attacks outside of witch time
>Dont do it for the entire game
>Win the final life with an upsmash they never saw coming
So satisfying. So consistent.

>Samus as low as she is
Art imitates life. Samus gets shittier as her series gets shittier.

>>379868987
Bayonetta's Nair is an important part of her kit, though. Not in the combo area(although she will use it to kill with at high percent if she's near the side blastzone) but with edgeguarding. Characters with very vertical recovery and/or linear recovery are ruined by it because her Nair along with her Witch Twist can nudge them just far enough to kill them. Her Nair and her up B make it almost impossible for Ganondorf to ever recover against her, for example. This among other things likely makes Bayo vs Ganon the most lopsided MU in the entire game. Her Nair is probably the best aerial for edgeguaring in the entire game because it's so large and she doesn't have to aim it, you just have to hold the A button.

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Now that the game is a few years old, is there a -definitive- amiibo training guide?

>>379869972
>64: Samus was decent: N64 had no Metroid games but the last ones were good
>Melee: Samus was great: Gamecube had Prime
>Brawl: Samus was shit: Wii had Other M
>4: Samus was shit: 3DS had Federation Force
Really makes you think

>>379867209
Neither does Bayo.

>>379862050
Mewtwo's been getting consistent buffs since his launch and now he's a metric pain in the ass. Upthrow kills are bullshit. At least Backthrow shitters have to pretend to care because they have to force you to the side, Mewtwo can just chuck you to your death at 110+ percentage from anywhere.

>>379870768

>110% is considered low-mid now

I hate this game.

do you have to buy the added characters like bayonetta or is it just an update?

>>379869923
Well yeah. That's how you play Bayonetta. Only bust out her Smash attacks when you're absolutely sure the opponent won't see that shit coming.

Although to be fair to the original guy's point, yeah, Cloud is pretty fucking stupid as well.

>>379869972
A-at least she's not literally the worst character in the game anymore.

>tfw you really wanted to main her but she was complete shit and you had to drop her

She does have some of the best alt colors in the entire game though.

>>379870868
It's not, but at least make the fucker have to land a strong hit, not just grab-dead.

>>379868508
He generally got less end frames on his attacks and some increased damage on his attacks, but biggest was buffing his range by making his tipper hitboxes larger, and also making them stronger, so past a certain %, pretty much his entire moveset is a kill move. Jab 1 was also changed to connect into everything across %'s. He also benefitted from the shield patch, making his tippers safe on shield

>>379870198
As much as I love this game I'm 90% sure that the amiibo's "learning" from you was ENTIRELY bullshit. At higher levels they just end up doing straight up more damage

Why are Mario and the doc so far away in the tier?

>>379871356
Mario recovers for free, Doc doesn't.

>>379849776
I just want Bayonetta out. It was cool at first but Sakurai went fucking overboard with her. At least give her some crazy disadvantage to compensate.

>>379849776
>Is it true that Bayonetta is the strongest character?

That's what the list says.

>>379849776
>Also, it's pretty crazy to think that we have a game that has Bayonetta, Cloud, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu and Pac-Man all in one.

Yeah it's like a wish on a moneky's paw.

>>379871356

Doc's recovery and weight are a dogshit combination

>>379849776
>tfw all my mains are D/E tier

>>379869607

Clouds recovery is genuinely really shitty though. The only worse recoverys in the game are doctor Mario, little Mac, and possibly ganondorf.

You can't just ignore it and say it doesn't count when it does. If he actually did have good recovery I'm pretty sure he would be the number one character in the game. At almost any time Cloud can randomly die at low percents if you harass him enough while he's offstage. Or knock him far to either side after he has used his double jump.

>>379855070
>Samus has one gimmick kill that only works at high rage and when the opponent is at low percent
>People get upset because of it
>Meanwhile other characters like Luigi and Bayo can drag you into blast zones at any percent
>Lol just learn the match up and sdi dude

>>379870868

What percentage is considered high or low is completely arbitrary you moron. Of course people live longer, that's why the game only uses half the stocks. Also pretty much every character can kill you with a raw hit at that % anyways.

>>379872339
>What percentage is considered high or low is completely arbitrary you moron.

Haha yeah that's you die at low percents in this game right? I remember once I died to a Fox upsmash at 200% WTF that was so low! Bullshit game

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Almost nothing in this game feels satisfying. The only thing that does is Robin's Levin Sword. The absolute worst is when you're just lazily flying to the blast zone to your death and can't do anything.

>>379870929
please answer i want to know if its worth to dig up my wiiu again

>>379872026

If recovery is a huge issue, Cloud can just hold on to his limit for it. Yes, he can get caught with his pants down, but for the most part he will have it ready when he needs it the most. Doc and Mac don't have that luxury.

>>379849776
The second best smas 4 player almost lost to a 'been playing for 3 months' Bayo, what do you think?

>>379873190
Ally is pretty well known for losing to literally whos

>>379851091
>all this and bandana dee

>>379870613
Smash 4 Samus is better than Brawl Samus at least.

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>>379849776
>Do you think Smash DX on the Switch will add even more?

I sure hope so.

>>379873079

That's true. Which is why Cloud is still a really good character despite his recovery. Not to mention if you completely ignore recovery and remove it from the equation cloud is a stronger, faster, better character than Doc, Mac, and Ganondorf anyways.

Plus, if Clouds holding onto his limit recovery than he isn't using it to limit cross slash you, so even if he does hang onto it for recovery because you're pressuring him that badly, it does still help you.

>>379875494

>Those blocks

Spotted the former Chorusboysfag

>>379875845
What does BoxBoy have to do with Rhythm Heaven?

>>379873190
https://www.ssbwiki.com/2GG:_Pay_It_Forward
JK has been playing Bayo longer than that, and Ally isn't particularly strong against the character. He's also lost to Tyroy's Bayo at Midwest Mayhem.

>>379876195
Bayo is still the best because of all her bullshit

>>379876017

>Monochrome trio of flat characters.

>>379876379
I agree. Triple jump is pure bullshit. I enjoy all smash games, but for most of them the top tiers are lame to play against. I honestly believe part of Melee's success is that Fox is so much fun to beat up, which makes getting bodied by his bullshit more acceptable. The coolest combo any low tier can pull off is probably going to be done on a fast faller.

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>>379876790
>flat
Not necessarily.

Also never played RH, and from how it looks there's no solid "protagonist" you could use.